Article

2007-11-01 Iraq

Yemen & Turkey: First "Walkaways" Under Assumed U.S. Retreat

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Posted by 3dc 2007-11-01 12:16|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 This stems from the perception of defeat; and who created that perception of defeat, even while the fight was on, and mostly one-sided (though that Nation-building thing was/is based on pretty optimistic view of iraqis' capacity for democracy)? The Usual Suspects and their mass-media machinery.
I wonder, how any western country is to ever fight again a successful war (not just militarly, but as a whole)? There always were oppositions to wars, sometimes even very violent (Us civil war draft riots) or massive (US anti-WWI demonstrations), but they were crushed by an able power, and they didn't have the means to mold the opinions of millions.
Since the Indochina war, and in every conflict since then, there always was a part of the western public opinion that was not only opposed to the war, but actively on the other side, and that include the Enlightened Elites and the msm. With that, and until deep changes, I don't see any possible victory, with such a divide.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-11-01 13:29|| 2007-11-01 13:29|| Front Page Top

#2 Thank you, Harry Reid.

Posted by Mike 2007-11-01 13:33|| 2007-11-01 13:33|| Front Page Top

#3 Saddam bet on the MSM and the 'usual' suspects too. Look where it got him. Those outside don't understand that in our system there's a lot of posturing and ritual to the entire process. Not a whole lot different than when the Romans would consult the oracles before setting out on a course of action. It's cultural theater and show to a great extent. The 'signs' may be inauspicious, but that only means a delay in the game, not the final outcome. They're just waiting to find the sacred chicken with the clean liver. They will eventually. Unfortunately, those on the outside confuse the ritual with the actual and inevitable outcome. Check the record on the outcome, not the process. Then place your bets.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-11-01 13:42|| 2007-11-01 13:42|| Front Page Top

#4 Why do I feel that isnt's any loss.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-11-01 14:39|| 2007-11-01 14:39|| Front Page Top

#5 Why do I feel that this is not really a loss?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-11-01 14:40|| 2007-11-01 14:40|| Front Page Top

#6 I think its a mistake to conflate the situation in Yemen with that in Turkey. Whether the US remains an influence in the region or not, the recent status quo wrt the PKK is clearly intolerable to Turkey (and IIUC the death count far higher recently than the Israel death count from Pal terrorism).

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-11-01 16:08|| 2007-11-01 16:08|| Front Page Top

#7 "Saddam bet on the MSM and the 'usual' suspects too. Look where it got him."

True. But he was betting against a very different America than the one that's evolved since his overthrow.

Whether Arab leaders' assumption that "the next two or three years will bring a American retreat from the Middle East and an unwillingness to assert American influence for our interests and those of our allies" turns out to be correct or not, who's to say; but you certainly can't fault them for making it based on what they can see of the political goings-on in our society. We've been projecting an appearance of weakness, fatigue, self-doubt and lack of resolve that must truly be causing our allies sleepless nights-- and our enemies limitless delight.

I fear our grandchildren will pay a horrible price-- maybe even with their lives-- for the Democratic Party's cynical, calculated decision to play politics with the war by sucking up to the extreme Left to get $$$$, votes and election volunteers. Certainly, a "precipitous decline in our influence" will be the very least of the problems they will inherit from this country's current fecklessness.

"I wonder, how any western country is to ever fight again a successful war (not just militarly, but as a whole)? [...] With that, and until deep changes, I don't see any possible victory, with such a divide."

Good question; I've been thinking a lot about it myself. Unfortunately, I think the answer is most likely that we will not win any future war, simply because we will not fight one. I don't think the American public has the fortitude for it anymore.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-11-01 16:25|| 2007-11-01 16:25|| Front Page Top

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