Article

2007-12-03 India-Pakistan

India to import 347 main battle tanks from Russia

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Seafarious 2007-12-03 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11134 views ] Top

#1 Seems decent. This Wiki article says that during testing the tank turret armor withstood five shots from an M1 Abrams.

Posted by gorb 2007-12-03 04:41|| 2007-12-03 04:41|| Front Page Top

#2 That is a hell of a lot of tanks.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-12-03 08:49|| 2007-12-03 08:49|| Front Page Top

#3 That is a hell of a lot of tanks.

Pakiwakiland is wide.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-12-03 10:06|| 2007-12-03 10:06|| Front Page Top

#4 gorb, that's not helpful. Which M1 Abrams? The original M1 with the 105, or the M1A1 and A2's 120 smoothbore? What kind of rounds?

Protection isn't the main thing with modern MBTs, anyways. How well do they shoot on the move? It doesn't matter if the first four rounds bounce off the glacis, if the other guy gets off his fifth round before you can return fire; 'cause he's rabbiting around and you have to sit and carefully line up on a stationary target that just won't stand still.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2007-12-03 10:06|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2007-12-03 10:06|| Front Page Top

#5 Incidentally, yes, that's a lot of modern MBTs. More T-90s than are fielded with the Russian army, if you believe that Wiki article. Which I'm kind of dubious of, given the subject matter & Wiki's nature.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2007-12-03 10:07|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2007-12-03 10:07|| Front Page Top

#6 The US Army feels pretty comfortable and is manufacturing ammo specifically designed to defeat the T-90's ERA.

The M256 cannon is well characterized. I think a few M1 hulks were even left in Iraq in 1991. Even though the US destroyed the tanks, the gun itself would be easy enough to recover and ship to Russia. Recovering ammo is another matter and has much improved since 1991.

Posted by ed 2007-12-03 10:38|| 2007-12-03 10:38|| Front Page Top

#7 T-90s is a good choice for India. Fairly cheap and easy to use for conscripts. While I seriously doubt a T-90 could defeat a M-1A2, against the local militarizes it would be impressive and would hold its own against Chinese or Pakland tanks.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-12-03 11:05|| 2007-12-03 11:05|| Front Page Top

#8 The number is indeed accurate.

There are elements in the Congress party pushing this as well, since kickbacks on these foreign contracts are used to fund party coffers.

Ironically the Indian developed Arjun tank stood up to T-90 fire while its own rounds would cook off the turret on any T-90.

No additional orders for the Arjun though (no opportunity to fill Congress party accounts)

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:10|| 2007-12-03 15:10|| Front Page Top

#9 Fairly cheap and easy to use for conscripts.

There are no conscripts in the Indian army (and there have never been any).

The modern Indian Army, like the Imperial Indian Army before it is an all volunteer force. During WW2 it was the largest volunteer force in the world (>3 million strong). While the American forces hammered the Japanese at sea and on the various island chains, the Imperial Indian Army drove them back all the way to Vietnam.

All Indian soldiers must have a secondary school leaving certificate.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:15|| 2007-12-03 15:15|| Front Page Top

#10 Indian divisions also fought in North Africa and Italy (Monte Cassino)

Some were captured and later joined the Werhmacht

This is Rommel inspecting Indian troops at the Atlantic wall.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:19|| 2007-12-03 15:19|| Front Page Top

#11

An Italian soldier surrenders to an Indian Jawan in North Africa

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:22|| 2007-12-03 15:22|| Front Page Top

#12

Indian soldiers holding a Nazi flag which they had captured at Libyan Omar, December 1941.

Two crew members of a Sherman tank of the Scinde Horse, part of the Indian 31st Armoured Division in Iraq, March 1944.

a Sherman tank of the 9th Royal Deccan Horse, 255th Indian Tank Brigade, encounter a newly liberated elephant on the road to Meiktila, Burma 1945.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:26|| 2007-12-03 15:26|| Front Page Top

#13

A scout car crew of the Indian Armoured Corps, chat with youngsters in San Felice, Italy, during the advance towards the River Sangro.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:31|| 2007-12-03 15:31|| Front Page Top

#14

Indian soldiers storm a German trench, after exploding it with hand grenades. Circa 1945.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:33|| 2007-12-03 15:33|| Front Page Top

#15

A Lieutenant Colonel from the 20th Indian Division, accepts the formal surrender of a Japanese Commander at Saigon, Vietnam in September 1945.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 15:34|| 2007-12-03 15:34|| Front Page Top

#16 Cool pix!

Posted by gorb 2007-12-03 16:10|| 2007-12-03 16:10|| Front Page Top

#17

Noor-un-Nisa Inayat Khan, GC, MBE, (January 1, 1914, Moscow - September 13, 1944, Dachau concentration camp), usually known as Noor Inayat Khan, was a British Special Operations Executive agent in World War II of Indian origin and the first female radio operator to be sent into occupied France to aid the French Résistance.

The Great-Great-Grandaughter of the legendary Indian King Tipu Sultan, she was born in the Kremlim Palace, Moscow. In 1940 Noor volunteered for the Womens Auxiliary Air Force (WAAF). In November 1942 she was recruited as a secret agent by the Special Operations Executive (SOE) because she had lived in France and was fluent in French. In June 1943 Noor arrived in France under the codename Madeleine and was constantly on the run from the Gestapo. She was betrayed by an informer and captured by the Gestapo who interrogated her. She refused to talk and made frequent unsuccessful attempts to escape from prison. She was seen as a dangerous threat and in November was sent to a prison in Germany where she was tortured and beaten. In September 1944, Noor was taken to Dachau Concentration Camp where she was shot. In 1949, she was posthumously awarded the George Cross.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 16:23|| 2007-12-03 16:23|| Front Page Top

#18

Indian infantry assaults through a burning objective, in Burma. Circa 1945.

Indian troops, during Operation Battleaxe on 06 August 1941. An Indian infantry division was involved in the first attempt to remove Reverend Major Bachs' forces out of Halfaya Pass - an important position between the Egypt and Libyan border. The latter was then an Italian colony. Bachs was a German priest and therefore had a religious title, as well a military rank.

Gurkha troops charge the enemy lines in Burma. Circa 1945.

Indian paratroopers being dropped at Elephant Point, Burma on 01 May 1945.

A group from the 152nd Para Battalion displaying the Japanese flag they captured while operating against the Japanese Army at Tangkhul Hundung. Circa 1945.

The 2/6th Gurkha Rifles advance towards Medicinia, Italy in April 1945.

A Nazi Flag captured from the 90th Panzer Light Division by Indian Troops at Ruweisat Ridge. Circa 1942.

An Indian soldier holds a captured Nazi flag. Circa 1945.

Engineers of the 8th Indian Division rest on the morning of 12 May 1944. They spent the previous night clearing enemy mines planted on the Gustav Line, allowing infantry and armour to break through during the drive that would take the Allies north to Rome.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 16:40|| 2007-12-03 16:40|| Front Page Top

#19

Indian Troops in New Street, Baghdad, 11th March 1917.

Jat Lewis gunner firing at enemy plane, probably Tigris front, Mesopotamia, 24th October 1918.

ndian cyclists at the cross-roads on the Fricourt-Mametz road, the Somme, July 1916.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 16:50|| 2007-12-03 16:50|| Front Page Top

#20

No.2 Company, Bombay sappers and Miners, China 1900.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 16:51|| 2007-12-03 16:51|| Front Page Top

#21

An Indian infantry section of the 2nd Battalion, 7th Rajput Regiment about to go on patrol on the Arakan front, Burma 1943.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 16:53|| 2007-12-03 16:53|| Front Page Top

#22 John -- I just love your history lessons! Keep them coming -- great pics, as usual for you.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2007-12-03 17:43|| 2007-12-03 17:43|| Front Page Top

#23 Somebody made a fart noise before that last pix.
I like that bayonet, do you know how much that puppy would fetch at the gun store ? Maybe $500.

Posted by wxjames 2007-12-03 17:48|| 2007-12-03 17:48|| Front Page Top

#24

Caravan of General Von Arnim, German Army, who surrendered to the 4th Indian Division (a.k.a. Fighting Fourth) in Tunisia, Africa.

Two Dogras, in forward light machine-gun positions in Burma. Circa 1944.

A Sikh-manned Bren gun team of the 4th Indian division participating in manoeuvres prior to Operation Compass, the December 1940 offensive against the Italian Army in the desert of Western Egypt and Eastern Libya.

Crew of HMIS Narbada with blistered gun barrels following the bombardment of Japanese Positions, Myebon, Hunters Bay, Burma.

Squadron Leader Majumdar was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross - the first to be awarded to an Indian Air Force officer - for the gallantry and leadership that he displayed while serving as the commanding officer of No 1 Squadron, Indian Air Force, during the retreat from Burma in 1942. He was subsequently awarded a Bar to the DFC in recognition of his courage and skill while serving as a tactical reconnaissance pilot with No 268 Squadron, Royal Air Force, during the liberation of France in 1944. Squadron Leader Majumdar was the only Indian Air Force officer to receive two DFCs during the Second World War.

Indian technicians assembling cannon-firing Hurricanes.

Private Begum Pasha Shah of the WAC (1) on duty in the Orderly Room of an RAF station in India, August 1943.

A week before the German surrender in Italy, sappers of 136 Indian Railway Maintenance Company set about repairing some of the extensive damage in the railyards of Bologna, Italy.

Gian Singh was born in Sahabpur Village in the Punjab and served with the 15th Punjab Regiment. In Burma on 2nd March 1945 his company was advancing between Kamya and Myingyan when they came under heavy fire. He launched a single handed attack against the Japanese and despite being wounded in the arm he continued throwing grenades and attacking enemy foxholes. On 16th October 1945, he was awarded the Victoria Cross by King George VI at Buckingham Palace. Singh continued to serve in the Indian Army until his retirement. He died in 1996.

Abdul Hafiz was born in Kalanaur Village in the Punjab. In Burma on 6th April 1944, whilst serving with the 9th Jat Regiment of the Indian Army, Jemadar Hafiz led an attack against Japanese forces in the hills north of Imphal. They were met with strong resistance and Hafiz was wounded by enemy fire but he still continued to attack enemy positions and killed several of the enemy. Hafiz was fatally wounded by machine-gun fire from another Japanese position. He was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.

Lieutenant (Engineer) Daya Shankar was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) for his bravery during the Second World War while serving with HMIS Lawrence in the Persian Gulf. HMIS Lawrence had been ordered to board the Italian vessel Caboto which had been set on fire by her crew in an attempt to scuttle her. Lieutenant Shankar boarded the blazing ship, captured the crew and then proceeded not only to search for scuttle charges but also to assist with the fire fighting.

Kamal Ram was born in Bholupura village, Rajasthan, India. He served in the 3rd Battalion, 8th Punjab Regiment.

On 12th May 1944, on the Gustav line in Italy, the advance of Sepoy Rams company was halted by four enemy machine gun posts. The Company Commander requested a volunteer to silence one of them. Sepoy Ram volunteered and successfully captured the post after killing the crew. He succeeded in capturing another on his own and a third with the help of a Havildar. As a result of his bravery Sepoy Ram was awarded the Victoria Cross by King George VI in Italy on 26th July 1944.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-03 18:11|| 2007-12-03 18:11|| Front Page Top

#25 John, Thanks for the photos and history - that's why I keep coming back to the 'burg.

Posted by mft 2007-12-03 23:11|| 2007-12-03 23:11|| Front Page Top

23:49 phil_b
23:11 mft
22:49 newc
22:45 SR-71
22:43 JosephMendiola
22:34 DMFD
22:29 JosephMendiola
22:22 DMFD
22:10 DMFD
22:09 trailing wife
22:00 trailing wife
21:53 g(r)omgoru
21:44 trailing wife
21:40 g(r)omgoru
21:37 Pliny Pheath1680
21:26 Eric Jablow
21:17 Whiskey Mike
21:15 Glavigum B. Hayes3666
21:15 trailing wife
21:13 Eric Jablow
21:02 Eric Jablow
21:00 Canuckistan sniper
20:57 Red Dawg
20:52 Procopius2k