Article

2008-05-08 Iraq

As Baghdad grapples with Sadr City, Iraqi Kurdistan busily builds 'Dream City'

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-08 10:37|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top
File under: Iraqi Insurgency

#1 other differences

1. The Kurds are historically secularist, the Shia not so much

2. The Kurds had 12 years of self rule outside of Saddams control before OIF. The Shia did not.

And special for Rantburg

3. The leading Kurdish parties, the KDP and PUK, are historically Social Democrat. The leading Shia parties, not so much.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-05-08 11:05|| 2008-05-08 11:05|| Front Page Top

#2 Another advantage is that arab speaking suicide bomber wannbees have to negotiate a lot of Kurdish speaking territory to get where they want to go if they want to blow stuff up in Kurdistan.

Another difference is that if Kurdistan was a State, its electoral votes would go to the GOP.

Posted by mhw 2008-05-08 11:39|| 2008-05-08 11:39|| Front Page Top

#3 LH:
1. Predominately Sunni but like the Turks room for secularism. Unlike Arabs.

2. The Kurds had a long way to go after thousand of villages were destroyed, ethnic cleansing, starving in the mountains in the early 90s. The Shia Arabs were protected by a No-Fly zone also but couldn't figure out what to do with it.

3. The Kurdish KDP and PUK figured out a way to share power and thrive. The Arab Badr and Mahdi fight for power.

I still think it's an Arab thingy to crap in your own bed.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-08 11:58|| 2008-05-08 11:58|| Front Page Top

#4 The Kurdish KDP and PUK figured out a way to share power and thrive.

After a civil war in 1995 and lots of fighting before that. We pretty much knocked their heads together and told them that if they didn't stop fighting, we'd pull the no-fly zone. That woke them up.

I agree with LH's comments: the Kurds do seem to be more practical and secularist, but let's give the rest of Iraq time. The Sunni sheiks are all about business and deals: as long as they get theirs they can be pretty reasonable. Likewise, the Iraqi Shi'a are more business-oriented than their Iranian cousins.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2008-05-08 12:09|| 2008-05-08 12:09|| Front Page Top

#5 #3

1. I think there is room for secularism among arabs - see Tunisia, for ex, but thats too big to resolve here. Clearly one of the things that makes it easier for non-arab muslims to secularize is the existence of a strong local ethnic identity - Arabs to counter pan Islamism need either A. Pan Arabism - a dead end or B. Loyalty to relatively artificial local states - the hope, but difficult to achieve

2. The Kurds suffered under Saddam as did the Shiites. When the Kurds got their nofly zone, they had autonomy - cause the mountains and their military skills - honed by resistance from before Saddam was even in power, made them defensible. Shia were in flat ground, open to armor.

3. KDP and PUK were pragmatic. Maybe partly an ethnic trait. Partly due to the situation of having a quasistate to share. And partly because of a tradition of socialist secularism, that had an easier time adapting to the market economy than Shia radicalism has in adapting to the modern age.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-05-08 12:26|| 2008-05-08 12:26|| Front Page Top

#6 Maybe it's because it's too hot & humid to even move in Basra for half the year but up in the Kurdish area they can still get things done in the summer.

Posted by Menhadden Snogum6713 2008-05-08 13:06|| 2008-05-08 13:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe the Arabs in Iraq will sort it out like the Lebanese.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-08 14:37|| 2008-05-08 14:37|| Front Page Top

#8 "It did not give Iraq the highest possible return," he says

Translation: I didn't get my bribe from this seperate deal, and I'm pissed beyond belief because as an official of the Petroleum Ministry, bribes are my birthright.

Posted by gromky 2008-05-08 14:56|| 2008-05-08 14:56|| Front Page Top

#9 the other arabs in iraq are too busy about div=ying it up . ht e kurdss eem too be mor enuisness man like rather thatn give this or fuck you. From what i have seen about kirkuk alot of comps. andare moving there andthere is some real prime real estate

Posted by sinse 2008-05-08 15:13|| 2008-05-08 15:13|| Front Page Top

#10 IIRC, STARS-N-STRIPES [paraph] > KURDS THREATEN TO ATTACK US INTERESTS, as "PUNISHMENT" for US INTEL etc. + OTHER SUPPORT GIVEN TO TURKEY IN LATTER'S MILOPS AGZ KURDS IN IRAQ.

Also IIRC, SAME > KURDS > proclaiming to REVIEW OR RECONSIDER THEIR PRIOR SUPPOR OF US EFFORTS IN IRAQ + REGION???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-05-08 22:39|| 2008-05-08 22:39|| Front Page Top

23:57 McZoid
23:52 McZoid
23:52 JosephMendiola
23:50 USN,Ret. (from home)
23:45 JosephMendiola
23:30 JosephMendiola
23:26 JosephMendiola
23:22 JosephMendiola
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:11 JosephMendiola
23:08 Secret Master
23:00 Abdominal Snowman
23:00 Procopius2k
22:59 Abdominal Snowman
22:44 JosephMendiola
22:39 Abdominal Snowman
22:39 JosephMendiola
22:34 JosephMendiola
22:29 g(r)omgoru
22:23 JosephMendiola
22:22 Gromoling Dark Lord of the Sith7535
22:21 JohnQC
22:12 JohnQC
22:11 OldSpook