Article

2008-05-30 -Lurid Crime Tales-

Update: Police report reveals teacher's side of incident in which boy 'voted' out of class

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Posted by gorb 2008-05-30 05:59|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 Kids are mean, doesn't matter the age. Teacher should have known that. There is a reason we don't let kindegardeners vote.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-05-30 11:13|| 2008-05-30 11:13|| Front Page Top

#2 she would protect them like a 'bear defending her cubs

Are bears like hampsters in that the mom eats the extra cubs she cannot care for?

And is there some Bizarro World where you can deal with children, the larval form of humans, as rational beings?

Posted by SteveS 2008-05-30 11:41|| 2008-05-30 11:41|| Front Page Top

#3 Yet another case of an out of control child and his (likely) enabling / willfully blind parent out to teach a lesson to an educator who had the audacity to question his behavior. Happens every day in every school in the nation. Move along, nothing to see here except the trumped-up lawsuit the parent is angling for.

Posted by AzCat 2008-05-30 12:50|| 2008-05-30 12:50|| Front Page Top

#4 AzCat, you aren't more right today than you were yesterday. How many other kindergarten children do any of those things, plus shouting out of turn and getting up and running around because boys sometimes must be boys? Would you ever treat an employee like that, even one you were in the process of firing?

As for the teacher's statement: Uh huh. And is that how the children understood it, or did they understand it the way little Alex did? If the boy was in the process of being diagnosed for Asperger's Syndrome, this likely falls under Federal Disability Protection statutes. She may have been trying to get rid of him before she had to comply with writing and fulfilling a formal Individual Education Plan, with all the legal problems -- for the teacher and the school -- that entails. As for the mother bear thing: that sets up the other children with her against whatever Alex might do, regardless of truth or falsehood. A teacher's responsibility is supposed to be to all the children in her classroom, not just the ones she likes best.

Fire the bitch.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-05-30 13:07|| 2008-05-30 13:07|| Front Page Top

#5 Roger that, tw.

Posted by lotp 2008-05-30 13:13|| 2008-05-30 13:13|| Front Page Top

#6 AzCat, I'm w/you in principle but I saw this kid on a vid the other day - he definitely looked to me to have more going on then just a behavioral issue - facial ticks and the whole lot - a lot like my nephew w/aspergers. Trust me, I'm a corporal punishment type of dude, no problem w/spanking those that deserve it. I think this kid was in the wrong classroom. Let's see what happens before throwing judgements either way.

Posted by Broadhead6 2008-05-30 13:54|| 2008-05-30 13:54|| Front Page Top

#7 I agreee TW.

I have a son with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Luckily his ped caught the early signs when he was about 2 and referred us to Children's Hospital for an eval and even then it was difficult to diagnose because of his age.

He would act up - either out of simply not knowing it was wrong or in frustration. Still does sometimes. Its very hard to communicate with him when he's on a roll. Heck its hard to communicate with him at the best of times.

We were able to get him into an early education school when he was 2 and now he's in early development with the school district. He has improved greatly - we can hold a simple conversation with him now. When he gets to kindergarten age he will either be mainstreamed or place in a smaller classroom until he can adjust.

If a teacher were to treat my son like that (even if he were normal or not) I would be very pissed off - at both the teacher and school district for placing my child with such a cruel teacher.

You *dont* treat kids like that. If he's disruptive you send him out and you find a solution to the problem - talk to his parents, transfer him to another class.

If your going to punish the kid you don't have the other kids do it by, in effect, telling the kid he's nothing and nobody likes him and he should just go away and never come back. What kind of lession did it teach the other kids? Who's going to be their next target?

When Alex returned to the class, Portillo said she and the class were not ready for him to return.

Oh they were ready all right. Seems to be she already had them primed to eat one of her 'cubs'.

Morningside parent Terrence Moore, whose daughter Jessica is in the kindergarten class and was interviewed by the resource officer, said Portillo is an exceptional teacher.

Shes top notch. Shes a very caring teacher, Moore said.

Until it's your child she decides she doesn't like that week.

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-05-30 14:08|| 2008-05-30 14:08|| Front Page Top

#8 AzCat, questioning kid's behavior's fine. Using utterly immature and stupid methods of "punishment" is really not that desirable. The field of education is populated by all sort of characters (or induhviduals) as a result of the deficient education in the firt place tha have no biz being there.

Posted by twobyfour 2008-05-30 14:09|| 2008-05-30 14:09|| Front Page Top

#9 I'll ditto that roger.

It's curious that ~~AssHat~~ AzCat has his trolling motor in overdrive about a five-year-old boy who will have to live with being the odd fellow out his whole life. A boy who is no doubt smart and wants desperately to make friends, but is unable to understand subtlties in facial expression and language -- and therefore doesn't interact as naturally as the other kids. A boy whose attempts at conversation will often be off topic or seem to consist of nonsequiturs. And yet, this boy can probably communicate brilliantly if he uses another medium like singing, acting or writing. But normal children have little or no patience for difference and, unfortunately, most of this boy's youth (and perhaps his adulthood) will be spent alone or with immediate family members who love him and understand where he's coming from -- or trying to come from and he just says it funny.

So what is it with you ~~AssHat~~ AzCat?Projection? Transference? Maybe it was tough times for you at your alma mater, Lord of the Flies Elementary?

Never mind, it's a rhetorical question. Your meanness and zero-sum personality are obviously more important to you than any child whose a lil different and just trying to find his way.

Posted by Gabby Cussworth 2008-05-30 14:12|| 2008-05-30 14:12|| Front Page Top

#10 An Individual Education Plan is not that big a deal if everybody has the kid's best interest at heart.

If they don't mainstream this kid, he will not see classmates with normal behavior. How is he supposed to learn acceptable behavior if he doesn't see it.

Kindergarten is not basic training and the teacher is not a drill instructor. Fire the bitch.

Posted by Darrell 2008-05-30 14:17|| 2008-05-30 14:17|| Front Page Top

#11 Look, I am willing to admit the boy may not have been ready for school. But first, the end of May is much too late to make that decision, and second, there are proper procedures for communicating that. If the teacher felt so keenly about this, she should have consulted her principal and the district psychologist; then the principal should have called a meeting with the parents, the private therapist who made the diagnosis, the district psychologist and the teacher to discuss reasons for recommending that the boy be withdrawn until he was capable of handling the strictures of a school classroom. Requiring the boy's classmates to participate in a public shaming is harmful to all involved. The other children will forever be marked by participating in a classic bully attack on the weakest member of the class.

The statistics are one out of 175 people has an autism spectrum disorder, three quarters of whom are high functioning autism or Asperger's Syndrome, at least in the U.S. and Britain.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2008-05-30 14:26|| 2008-05-30 14:26|| Front Page Top

#12 Yesterday, ex-lib wrote:

AzCat (aka friend of idiot Potillo): You've just been voted off of Rantburg by the society of classic posters for your rude and inhumane expressions of ignorance. WE DON'T LIKE YOU. WE DON'T LIKE YOU AT ALL. You have no understanding of disorders, you are backing a teacher who is sub-standard, and you obviously can't understand kindergarten--special needs or otherwise. SO GO AWAY. YOU SUCK. DON'T POST HERE ANYMORE. NO ONE WANTS TO READ YOUR STUPID POSTS ON ANY SUBJECT WHATSOEVER.

The immediate reaction of some readers was "Whoa! maybe that's a bit too strong of a reaction."

I think ex-lib was just trying to get AzCat to see what it might feel like to a little boy to get jumped on for being different. You know, experience is often the best teacher.

Now, today, AzCat again defends an abusive teacher and suggests the parent is just angling for some trumped up lawsuit. Well, I'll wager a guess that AzCat is a lawyer (maybe even a trial lawyer -- but the civil defense kind). And, AzCat is probably just thinking what he has to think (day in and day out) to live and work as a civil defense type lawyer: "All plaintiffs are greedy liars . . . The only good lawsuit is a dismissed lawsuit . . ."

The transactions, occurrences, and events underlying this story most certainly merit a lawsuit under the The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act ("IDEA"), 42 U.S.C. § 1983, and § 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. If this case doesn't merit this kind of a lawsuit, then it appears to me that no set of facts would ever qualify. And, what use would a lawsuit be? Well, let's see: 1) Money to pay for psych treatment for an very young and immature kid who will forever bear the scar of being shunned by his peers when he lacks any social skills to mitigate that trauma; 2) Injunctive relief in terms of an Order of the court requiring the school district to stop this kind of BS; 3) Money to pay lawyers and litigation costs (because, believe it or not, lawyers also have bills to pay and expert witnesses won't testify for free); and 4) maybe even enough additional money to serve as a warning to the school district to make sure this kind of stuff stops.

Of course, the school district could grow brains and immediately sue for peace with the parents -- i.e., just agree to do the right things now, and save everybody money. But, I bet some lawyer like AzCat will advise them to fight this to the bitter end, and deny all allegations, and demand strict proof thereof, and engage in scorched earth defense litigation, and stand on their rights and defenses, AND CHARGE BY THE HOUR THE WHOLE TIME THEY CHURN THE HECK OUT OF THIS CASE.

Posted by cingold 2008-05-30 15:06|| 2008-05-30 15:06|| Front Page Top

#13 I cry guilty to the "Whoa!" comment. It hurt me just to read it, and it wasn't even aimed at me -- definitely a teachable moment. Thank you for your expertise, cingold. Mr. Wife had made a general comment to that effect last night which guided my own thoughts up-thread, but his expertise does not lie in the law (nor, obviously, does mine).

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-05-30 15:59|| 2008-05-30 15:59|| Front Page Top

#14 AzCat:

I'm going to assume that you are young and have no kids. If/when that day comes, you may find yourself in the situation one day that this mother is in. You'd better slow down and ask someone who has a special needs kid how this goes. The kids are simply not equipped to see things or react like more typical kids. It's not the kid's fault any more than someone who was born with another kind of deformity. He just doesn't know and isn't equipped to figure it out. But often what they do know is raw emotions because he doesn't enjoy the filters that you may come with and seem to only too-gladly take for granted given the immaturity of the remarks you have backed up today even in the face of the free lessons from those who have forgotten more than you will hopefully ever be forced to know. It's not the kid's fault. It's the responsiblity of the teacher to account for this situation. She's been at this long enough to recognize that the kids simply doesn't belong where he is, and she has to deal with him until they can get him placed. Often the school system is slow to properly place these kids in order to "save" a few bucks - at the expense of often creating a burden to society when they grow up instead of a contributor.

Do you think the teacher's treatment of this child will help? It will not. The kid does not come equipped to deal in a typical manner with treatment like you are advocating for. For example, pain does not work. Often these kids learn to seek it out if it happens often enough. they dwell in a realm that is defined by repetetive sensory feedback. You get to them better through rewards, not punishments. The kind of treatment this child suffered will often make one of these kids regress for months. How do you feel? Is this right in this case? Would you do it? Is it right in any case? This teacher obviously isn't qualified to make these decisions, so she should have insisted on a full-time aid or just learned to control herself until the kid can be placed properly.

Go look up autism spectrum disorder. Look up Aspergers syndrome. Talk to some friends. Listen to the free advice you are getting here. You obviously know nothing about it other than what you have conjured up in your own mind. There are many people out there with multiple degrees who have been working on this their entire lives that offer their understanding to you for free on the web. There are many parents out there who have started out with your ideas in mind but I promise you that every one of them changes their tune very quickly when reality comes home to roost.

And make sure to keep a mirror handy when you're checking this out. One problem with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is the inability to see through the eyes of others. Like not being able to see through the eyes of an innocent five-year-old who doesn't even know he is a problem and hasn't learned passive resistance yet. Another is the inability to realize when they have gone too far, and think that everyone including the experts around them are on the wrong track. Another is perseverance of behavior, like this five year old spinning in class or perhaps you might know someone who won't give up on an opinion despite the logical flaws being pointed out by people who obviously know more.

A kid is not a piece of metal that you just beat into shape with a hammer.

Posted by gorb 2008-05-30 16:12|| 2008-05-30 16:12|| Front Page Top

#15 Good comments Gorp.

I would like to add that this treatment most likely did not have the effect the teacher expects.

In all probability the boy simply does not comprehend the cause -> effect.

(Almost as bad Paleos in that regard)

To him all he see is simply 'my peers hate me and so does my teacher - I am bad.' and not (as the teacher expects) 'I should not disrupt the class because my classmates don't like it and it bothers them'. He simply isn't equipped to think at that level. Not his fault.

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-05-30 19:00|| 2008-05-30 19:00|| Front Page Top

#16 On the bright side for the kid, a number of dot com millionaires (and supposedly Bill Gates himself) likely have a low-level of Asperger's Syndrome. It makes for a sense of focus that is excellent in engineering. Yeah I'd rather be one of the kids without Asperger's Syndrome but you know...

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-05-30 20:05|| 2008-05-30 20:05|| Front Page Top

#17 Marvelous. How about the rights of the rest of the children in that class?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-05-30 20:16|| 2008-05-30 20:16|| Front Page Top

#18 g(r)omgoru, obviously the other kids have rights, too. The people here are not saying the teacher should have done nothing about the boy's behavior. They are saying (based on experience and training in some cases) that there are much better ways to handle the problem. Making a five year old feel like he is bad and that his classmates hate him (when it is mostly the teacher who hates him) is probably the worst way to handle it.

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-05-30 20:26|| 2008-05-30 20:26|| Front Page Top

#19 What Gorb, Darrell, and Cussworth said . . . !

AssCrap: go pick on someone your own size.

The "teacher" was abusive on the face of it. And she led the other children into abusing a fellow classmate by holding him up to ridicule instead of, for instance, allowing the children to say what they liked about Alex--which would have gone a lot farther in molding his behavior.

Using a mock group contingency was nothing more than "ganging up" on Alex. As I said yesterday--no doubt Portillo is "feeling the ~~love~~ power" of Obama's "YES WE CAN" idiocy. "Yes She Did." Wow, I'm SO impressed (not). I expect more of this if Obama becomes POTUS. The empowerment of mediocre minds.

Any teacher that employs the psychological cudgel this type of group-hate scenario and manipulation of 5-year-olds produces--because she can't handle her own classroom effectively--should be barred from teaching.

And, hey--I used to "eat paper, pick my boogers and eat them, and bites my shoelaces" too, when I was five. Big deal. Good for the two kids that said he should stay.

ex-lib
M.A. Elementary Education - Early Childhood

Posted by ex-lib 2008-05-30 22:01|| 2008-05-30 22:01|| Front Page Top

#20 Oh--and can you imagine the effect this kind of "modeling" on the part of an authority will have on these kids--it's okay to be a bully--even the teacher said so.

Posted by ex-lib 2008-05-30 22:04|| 2008-05-30 22:04|| Front Page Top

#21 that his classmates hate him (when it is mostly the teacher who hates him)

If you trust the newspaper not to peddle victimhood, then that's what happened. But, suppose, just suppose, that this is not the case?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-05-30 22:25|| 2008-05-30 22:25|| Front Page Top

#22 M.A. Elementary Education - Early Childhood

Much becomes clear.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-05-30 22:29|| 2008-05-30 22:29|| Front Page Top

#23 Gee, I'll play g(r)om -- what happened?

How did this evil little child cook up this scenario?

WTF is wrong with you, AssHat and your ilk?

Posted by Gabby Cussworth 2008-05-30 22:47|| 2008-05-30 22:47|| Front Page Top

23:58 McZoid
23:40 3dc
23:24 Iblis
23:18 OregonGuy
23:11 Old Patriot
22:57 Cleting Black1202
22:56 JosephMendiola
22:54 JosephMendiola
22:47 Gabby Cussworth
22:46 Hellfish
22:42 Hellfish
22:39 JosephMendiola
22:36 Besoeker
22:32 Mayor Ray Nagin
22:29 g(r)omgoru
22:29 George Smiley
22:25 Besoeker
22:25 g(r)omgoru
22:09 Besoeker
22:06 JosephMendiola
22:04 ex-lib
22:01 ex-lib
21:56 JosephMendiola
21:53 Besoeker