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2008-10-22 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by Lagom 2008-10-22 11:20|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 well the anti christ is running for President so i guess it won't be long before the 7 years of Tribulation start

Posted by chris 2008-10-22 12:47|| 2008-10-22 12:47|| Front Page Top

#2 I don't think that will change many minds, Lagom. For many Americans abortion is a personal issue, not one of public policy.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-10-22 12:49|| 2008-10-22 12:49|| Front Page Top

#3 I put this article, which was referenced at the National Review, in the Opinion sector due to the content, author and relevance to current issues.

The eye-catching title was that of the original and was not my own invention.

Perhaps I should have edited it and eliminated the appeals at the end, but the gist of that article itself is relevant, timely, on-topic, and of interest to those who are wondering about the Catholic church's actual stated position, as it differs from the Soros-backed liberal groups attempting to influence a large voter bloc.

My reasoning

1. This article is relevant, due to the author being a Bishop in St Louis, a "swing state" with a large Catholic populace.

2. This article is relevant because the article demonstrates actual Catholic reasoning on abortion as a central and deciding voter issue for a large bloc of voters.

3. It will influence voters, and may affect the outcome of the election. Thus it is a cultural issue for US voters.

4. It is especially relevant for a large segment of voters who are Catholic and intend to vote for Senator Obama out of ignorance or being misled.

5. The trigger for this post was the news about George Soros funding Catholic pro-Obama groups, and as an adjunct to it.

6. The linked-to post was part of a counter to leftist propaganda aimed at a segment of the voting populace.

Thus, it was linked and posted as an opinion piece, which it certainly is, and tagged as "Culture Wars", which it certainly is.

@trailing wife: I believe you are mistaken that abortion is not a public policy issue.

It most certainly is a public policy issue, due to the politicization of it. This is further shown as a germane issue by Senator Obama's promise to sign the Freedom Of Choice act, and Senator McCain's stance to reject it. This is also reflected in another important political consideration, which are the judiciary policies of the candidates.

@AoS:

In my opinion, your cut of the article was harsh and presumptuous.

This was not an attempt to proselytize, and I reject the cavalier miss-characterization of it as such.

If the moderators here are as apparently narrow-minded as this action indicates, then you are as restrictive of the left in disallowing dissenting conservative viewpoints to be heard. Is this how you wish to be seen based on your actions?

Please reconsider your actions carefully in that light, as well as considering the arguments above. I took the time to go through them in my head before I posted the original article. I hope you apply the same careful consideration this time instead of a wrong snap-judgment as you did before.

I believe you are mistaken, and should restore my post and apologize.

If, after proper consideration, you decide that my reasons and speech are not appropriate here, then I have mistaken this place as a place where a conservative, even one from another country, can speak freely.

If that is the case, as shown by what you have done or failed to do, I will not trouble you ever again by posting here, and I apologize for apparently bothering moderators by presuming you allow such dissenting opinion as I offered.

If the article is restored, or if it is not, that will clearly answer the question. I will see that answer tomorrow.

Good-bye, hopefully only for the day.

Posted by Lagom 2008-10-22 14:38|| 2008-10-22 14:38|| Front Page Top

#4 it's their site why should they have too post "your" article if they don't want too? If they don't just don't come back.

Posted by chris 2008-10-22 15:09|| 2008-10-22 15:09|| Front Page Top

#5 AoS, thanks.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-10-22 16:04|| 2008-10-22 16:04|| Front Page Top

#6 Lagom:

As one who found that article quite forceful and important, and who is on your side with respect to life issues, I would also remind you that it's Fred's site. That means Fred gets to make the rules.

Rantburg began as a site devoted exclusively to the War on Terror. It's broadened out somewhat, but the WoT remains the primary focus. Fred was generous enough to open the site up to comments, and then to reader contributions, but always with the proviso that we keep within the bounds of what Fred and his volunteer moderators consider acceptable. If you hang out here for a while, you'll quickly get a good idea of where the boundaries are. I'm a pretty vigorous poster and commenter, but out of courtesy to the owner I try to observe the local rules and customs. (The mods have chided me a time or two, too, so don't take it personal.)

If you're interested in weighing in on life issues, there are other sites with open comments where articles like this are often discussed (like this site and this one and this one and this one). It's off-topic for Rantburg, and that's all Steve is saying here.

I'd invite you to stick around the 'Burg here and stay engaged. It's a nice group of guys, overall, and you might get to like us once you get to know us.

Posted by Mike 2008-10-22 16:20|| 2008-10-22 16:20|| Front Page Top

#7 I stand by my earlier comments. The post in question was political without significant impact on the WoT. The topic matter, abortion, only gets us embroiled in an argument that cannot be won by either side. The good bishop is welcome to his opinion, and you to yours, Lagom, but we're not posting it here.

We have indeed broadened the scope here some: it happens every election cycle, since those of us interested in the WoT recognize that following politics is vital to understanding how we respond to terror. But we're not going to broaden the debate to include divisive, domestic social issues.

So the article will not be restored. The link is intact for anyone who wishes to follow it. But no more of these.

Posted by Steve White 2008-10-22 17:33|| 2008-10-22 17:33|| Front Page Top

#8 The topic matter, abortion, only gets us embroiled in an argument that cannot be won by either side.

The arguement has been won by the liberal left. It has been lost by the conservative right. Most tragic of all however are the REAL losers, the unborn who will never see the light of day or the joys of life.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-22 18:15|| 2008-10-22 18:15|| Front Page Top

#9 It's a tough issue, to be sure.

Lagom, it probably would have been okay if you'd titled it "Swing-State Bishop urges RC voting bloc to consider religious priorities when voting" or some other such thing. It's pretty much an article that pimarily Roman Catholics might want to consider. I'm not Catholic, but that's my take--too narrow for a general article, and definitely in the opinion section.

As far as "us" not being an abortion forum AoS, I agree--but I've been here for many years and abortion is not an off-topic topic.

Many of us recognize that abortion and infanticide is the real front of the legitimate civil rights movement. Not all come from a particular religious cohort.

Nat Hentoff, Jewish atheist writer for the Village Voice, is an example of the broader base of those included in the debate.:

in this article

and this one

A look-see into Feminists for Life (the group Sarah Palin supports), can be found here

But Lagom, try to understand that rantburg isn't a "stumping ground" for particular views only. Your article link was still available after all, and if you're new here, no one is trying to chase you away. But yours is an opinion article.

That said, tw, almost any subject is political, but most especially is the arena of the abortion of human infants debate a political one.

Every abortion in this country results in the death of a US citizen, (this is a scientific fact, not a religious opinion), and abortion leaves a sad and sometimes horrific "trail of tears" for those go under the knife, hoping for a better outcome by eliminating their "pregnancy."

What REALLY annoys me, though, is the lack of alternatives for women facing unplanned/unwanted pregnancies. A true culture of life, as opposed to a culture of convenience, would design and promote the availability of viable alternatives.

Since it is inarguable that we have in an abortion is the death of a child, of course that would encompass politics and necessarily involves public policy. I was, for many years, very "pro-choice" and outspokenly so. I have since changed my mind after researching the issue.

There's so much out there, that all you have to do is to google abortion or types of abortion, and you can get quite an education.

investigate Don't go to this site if you don't want to see aftermath.

So, how is this connected to public policy during this election? McCain views are that the issue should be decided by the states, which seems appropriate. Roe V. Wade was an example of legislating from the bench. "We the people," through our reps, should work on legislation that reflects each state's views and principles. So, I can agree with that. Obama, on the other hand, has financial ties to Planned Parenthood, and has supported abortion and even partial-birth abortion for his entire career. He is against letting the states decide the issue.

One political facet of my personal position on the subject is that if we allow this crime against one portion of humanity, then it will expand to include the elderly, the infirm, the inconvenient. Eugenics is bad news. And so are many of the other issues that tend to "team up" with abortion and eugenics. For example, see:

brilliant writer/researcher Judith Reisman
"Implications of the Kinsey Reports on Child Custody Cases -- How Junk Sex Science Created a Paradigm Shift in Society, Legislation and the Judiciary"

But how does this relate to the War on Terror? Well, if we say we do not support the killing of innocent civilians throughout the world by the Islamofascists, we need to take a look at the 4000+ young Americans losing their lives each day here. The Islmofascists believe they are killing people for the right reasons. Unfortunately, so do we. And when one contemplates the disposal of human bodies issue alone, America begins to resemble a bizarre and macabre graveyard, rife with theoretical and political inconsistency.

Just so that rantburg doesn't become gentrified, let's keep the topics open as much as possible, while we reign in what doesn't fit, okay?

That's my 2-cents, or 4-bucks, or whatever.

Posted by ex-lib 2008-10-22 18:16|| 2008-10-22 18:16|| Front Page Top

#10 I didnt see the original post, but I did read the article (and yes I had seen it from Kathrn Lopez at National Review). I believe the article needed to be properly edited (maybe cut some of the "pray for..." out if he posted that bit towards the end). This doesnt appear to be a troll, or a faker like Aris. He seemed to be earnest, if a bit odd and using lots of big words to try to seem smart (or maybe thats a euro thing - I remember Aris being that way?).

Steve, IMHO, you're wrong. Didnt appear to be a prosetlyization effort, at least not in his head, ther way he explained it.

Perhaps a better way would have been to correct it and direct him to the corrections and why you edited the article. Instead you slam the window on the poster's hands.

Overall he seems to be on our side.

I've posted similar things frm my Archbishop Chaput that are similar, tho I tend to edit them down, especially when Pelosi and Biden were getting taken to the woodshed. Should I leave too, since I agree with the reasoning and the article, and had I been in the mood, I may have posted it as well?

Sorry doc, you blew it. You fecked this one up massively the way I see it. If this was a patient, you'd have amputated the right arm instead of treating the hangnail on the left foot.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-10-22 21:32|| 2008-10-22 21:32|| Front Page Top

#11 Lagom is a darling from the wilds of Scandinavia, or so he's hinted (the Scandinavia bit, I mean, his darlingness is my own conclusion). He's been lurking here and drinking in the O Club for a week or two now, and he's been trying very hard to understand what's been going on in this country as we head into our election. He is desperately concerned that we might make the stupid mistake of electing Barack Obama, believing rightfully that he would suffer the fallout as well as we here in America. Dr. Steve, I don't believe Lagom meant to proselytize. He just needs to be gently led to understand the rules. After all, he clearly doesn't even know that AoS refers to the Army of Steves.

Lagom, most of us who post articles have gotten something snipped, or just not posted -- in my case a good deal more often than is good for my ego. It isn't a judgement against you, any more than a teacher marking a spelling error would invalidate the entire essay. You have much to offer this forum and I hope you will not allow this to drive you away, as that was not the intent.

For information, when in the salmon highlight, AoS is the same Steve White you know from the O Club. Out here in Rantburg proper he is one of the all-powerful moderators who help Mr. Pruitt run the site. AoS is a bit of a joke: it became evident as we followed the War on Terror that a great many men named Steve, or Steven, Stephan, Stefan, etc are doing important things to further the war, so the several Steves who post at Rantburg claimed inclusion by right. Perhaps if you introduce a few more Lagoms, you could form your own legion. ;-)

OldSpook,

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-10-22 22:08|| 2008-10-22 22:08|| Front Page Top

#12 Lagom, let me encourage you to read trailing wife's word carefully. I, too, have raised a few with you in The Club.

As far as I can find, this was your first post of an article here in the 'Burg. Please don't let it be your first and last. Work with us to find your way through the many buildings and hallways of what we loving call Rantburg University.

I found this place just shortly after the beginning of this War on Terror. It's gotten me through some rough times, in wanting to know what is really going on, and asking questions from extremely knowledgeable folks.

Even through our sometimes vicious political seasons.

Lots of experts here. They don't all post all the time, or even comment. But, when a topic comes up that needs an expert, up they pop.

We've all had our growing pains at posting here! Getting sent to "America's Roadside" or whatever it's called when a post has a bad word is an amazing experience!

Me, some posts I made, didn't make it. Some were dupes, even tho I thought I looked, some just didn't "fit" in. And I'm real good at getting stuff in the wrong category!

So stick around.... The few times we've met you, we have come to like you. You have another perspective to offer us, as we wander through this big ole world we live in.

It's tough now, and will be in the next coming years. So stick around.... and I bet, soon, we will see a comment from Lagom, and we will know, "Yep, he knows of what he speaks."

Welcome ---

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-10-22 22:57|| 2008-10-22 22:57|| Front Page Top

23:58 3dc
23:57 Sherry
23:52 Don Vito Omeling5062
23:51 ex-lib
23:46 ex-lib
23:42 General_Comment
23:39 Betty
23:35 General_Comment
23:35 clipatuillath
23:34 JosephMendiola
23:31 USN, Ret.
23:24 Sherry
23:24 Betty
23:22 General_Comment
23:20 JosephMendiola
23:19 Betty
23:19 Steve White
23:17 General_Comment
23:17 Betty
23:15 JosephMendiola
23:14 USN, Ret.
23:13 CrazyFool
23:09 Betty
23:09 JosephMendiola