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2010-10-17 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by tipper 2010-10-17 07:28|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 On the face of it the question is rhetorical at best. We worship a God who includes Jesus Christ as Saviour and the Son of God. Jesus is simply a prophet in islam.

Posted by Dino Cromose3828 2010-10-17 09:11|| 2010-10-17 09:11|| Front Page Top

#2
Relevant quote from the article: Muslims believe because of Sura 29:46 that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, and of course, they also claim that Islam is an Abrahamic faith like Judaism and Christianity. However Mark Durie skilfully dismisses this claim and shows conclusively that YHWH of the Bible is completely different to Allah of Islam and the two are irreconcilable. This fact has enormous consequences which should be widely debated, because Western civilization is based on Judeo-Christian principles. If our leaders understand this, then political decisions regarding Islam may take a different course, and one that might just save our civilization from the curses of Islam.

Correct link: http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3814:do-we-worship-the-same-god

Posted by Parabellum 2010-10-17 09:15|| http://sidemeat.wordpress.com/ 2010-10-17 09:15|| Front Page Top

#3
Jesus is simply a prophet in islam.

Dino obviously didn't read the article.

Posted by Parabellum 2010-10-17 09:16|| http://sidemeat.wordpress.com/ 2010-10-17 09:16|| Front Page Top

#4 How do religious cults and sects view God, Jesus, and the Bible?

We can tell a lot about religious cults and sects by how they view God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible. We have listed several cults and their views below:

* Baha'i views God as unknowable and unable to incarnate Himself. Jesus returned as Baha'u'llah. Religious truth is relative.
* Edgar Cayce views God as pantheistic and as an impersonal force. Jesus is only a man who attained Christ consciousness. The Bible is only one of many holy books.
* Christadelphians have a Unitarian view of God and hold that Jesus was a created being who needed redemption. The Bible is held as the Word of God.
* Christian Science believes that God is everything, Jesus is a highly enlightened Christian Scientist, and the Bible is able to be correctly interpreted by Science and Heath with Key to the Scriptures.
* Church Universal and Triumphant views God as an impersonal energy, Jesus as a evolved spirit guide, and the Bible as historically unreliable.
* Jehovah's Witness claim God is unipersonal, Jesus is a created angel, and the Bible is only correct when interpreted by the Watchtower Society.
* Freemasonry views God as Unitarian and pantheistic, Jesus as a supremely good man, and the Bible as a symbol of the divine will.
* Mormons define God as an exalted physical man, Jesus as "Jehovah" of the Old Testament, and the Bible as authoritative only when it agrees with Mormon theology.
* The Mighty I AM sees God as an impersonal force, principle, energy,. Jesus is an ascended master, and the Bible subordinate to new revelations.
* New Thought claims God is universal law, Jesus is a good man, and the Bible is a relevant text when interpreted along with New Thought principles.
* Religious Science views God as an impersonal mind, Jesus as a great man who became "Christ-conscious," and the Bible is one of many sacred scriptures.
* Scientology proclaims God as purposefully undefined, Jesus as One invented by the church, and the Bible is accepted as one of the world's religious books, but nothing more.
* The Unification Church views God as divine energy, Jesus as a special creation of God, and the Bible as one of God's revelations. The Bible has since been replaced Moon's revelations.
* Unitarian Universalism sees God as undefined and Jesus as a good man. The Bible is a fallible book.
* Unity School of Christianity claims God is an impersonal principle and infinite mind. Jesus (The Christ) is the inner self of every person and the Bible (when interpreted by Unity) is the most advanced of mankind's religious Scriptures.
* The Way International sees God as one divine person, Jesus as the created Son of God (not God the Son), and the Bible as the Word of God (when interpreted by Wierwille).
* Zen views God as the Absolute (the void), Jesus as a good man (no Savior is necessary), and they do not have any authoritative scripture.

Religious Cults and Sects

Posted by Willy 2010-10-17 09:47|| 2010-10-17 09:47|| Front Page Top

#5 Some worship Gaia and her prophet Algore.

Posted by DMFD 2010-10-17 10:42|| 2010-10-17 10:42|| Front Page Top

#6 Some worship Gaia and her prophet Algore.
I thought Algore was a sex-crazed poodle. Why does Gaia need a sex-crazed poodle?

Posted by tipper 2010-10-17 11:43|| 2010-10-17 11:43|| Front Page Top

#7 I care for for none of these things

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-10-17 11:53|| 2010-10-17 11:53|| Front Page Top

#8 None of this addresses the Hammer, the Tree of Knowledge and the raven.....

or

The Elder Gods...

But, seriously, as to SAME - the answer has to be no..
It's been the cause of the 30 yrs war... the cause of the extermination of the Nestorians... the cause of mounds and mounds of theological papers and books....

Gnosticism - Teeth grinding heard from Rome...

Even within the "Christian Churches".
The "Old Testament God is viewed as schizophrenic vis-a-via the New Testament one and oh a 1 became the Trinity. All mystics tell you trinities always have a secret 4th member which the Cathloics tend to place Mary in.

Archeology leads to one view where the Old Testament God started out as the Family or Kitchen God of Abraham's clan in Ur. That being because the City God actual failed along with it's pantheon to protect and nurture the people of the city but Abraham's clan did okay so chalk it up to the Kitchen God and elevate him....
When Abraham meets at crossroads he still honors crossroad godlets and even witches until later in his life... The 3 current religions claiming Abraham would scream heresy at this view...

Then there are are the locality issues... is God god of all the Universe, all Universes from Type I through Type V and variants? Does he/she/it claim to be so? The current theologies shy away from multiverse...

In SciFi there is the concept that "Gods" exist only as long as they have believers. Therefore man must invent them.... But, if man's view is not uniform are they?

Suffice it to say... there is a direct claim between the Jewish god and the Old Testament God. The New Testament god could be viewed as a New God by the Jews. It has evolved to be different. It's only honest to say so... but for high church - Catholic, Lutheran etc... the ritual is quite similar with the Jewish... in many instances being identical. So ritual has evolved less then theology.... between High Church and Jewish sects. Now for Islam... there is no real evolution of Jesus or Abraham into Islam they are just co-opted as names and concepts. None of the ritual has anything in common and neither does the theology.
So it is really pushing the envelope for Islam to claim either.... The only common ground is the name. One could make a good argument that Islam's ritual evolves from the Stone Worshipers Cults in Mecca not any rituals of the Jews.
So ... no ritual commonality with Judaism or Christianity. None.

So it's very hard to make a case for the same God with Islam. Near impossible.

It's possible to make a evolutionary based case between Judaism and Christianity which the newer religion does and the older one rejects. It's the right of the older one to reject. It has the right to say "Our God did not evolve into yours".
And the new does not have the right to force believers of the old to accept the evolution.

Now back to scifi... since gods require and are shaped by belief and there are billions who believe slightly differently... you get a zillion gods or a totally schizo god.

then the Buddhists go "Ummmmmm"

enough rambling...

Posted by Water Modem 2010-10-17 12:09|| 2010-10-17 12:09|| Front Page Top

#9 I care for for none of these things
I agree, this is no less and no more importaint than the argument "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin" just as worthless and pointless.
They murder, Judge them so.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2010-10-17 12:42|| 2010-10-17 12:42|| Front Page Top

#10 they can say they believe in my God if they want...I'm quite certain I don' t believe in theirs...

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-10-17 16:36|| 2010-10-17 16:36|| Front Page Top

#11 But how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Posted by mojo 2010-10-17 17:22|| 2010-10-17 17:22|| Front Page Top

#12 "That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange eons even death may die!"
___________________
HPL

Posted by borgboy 2010-10-17 17:36|| 2010-10-17 17:36|| Front Page Top

#13

I agree, this is no less and no more importaint than the argument "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin" just as worthless and pointless.

That question is "worthless and pointless" only if you haven't thought about it. If the answer is zero or infinite, the implication is that angels are immaterial or not limited by material and physical limits. If the answer is a finite number, then angels are material and limited by the physical world.

As for whether Islam and Christianity have the same deity at their core, I'd say "unequivocally NO". The Christian Creator created a knowable, rational universe; Islam holds that every event is the willful act of Allah, that physical laws are mutable according to his whim. Further, Christians are commanded to express their faith through acts of charity, up to and including the feeding, clothing, and healing of non-believers; Muslims are commanded to slaughter, enslave, or convert non-believers, and to reserve charity either for support of jihad, or, at most, for fellow Muslims.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2010-10-17 17:40|| 2010-10-17 17:40|| Front Page Top

#14 "Ph-nglui mglw'Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

Posted by borgboy 2010-10-17 17:42|| 2010-10-17 17:42|| Front Page Top

#15 oh fine. Invoke the Old Ones, no problem

Posted by Frank G 2010-10-17 17:44|| 2010-10-17 17:44|| Front Page Top

#16 borgboy - if we'd followed that advice in 2008, we'd be better off today

Posted by DMFD 2010-10-17 17:46|| 2010-10-17 17:46|| Front Page Top

#17 Damn right, DFMD!

Posted by borgboy 2010-10-17 17:49|| 2010-10-17 17:49|| Front Page Top

#18 No, they don't.

Posted by AutoBartender 2010-10-17 18:10|| 2010-10-17 18:10|| Front Page Top

#19 does Dave know you got out?

Posted by Frank G 2010-10-17 18:28|| 2010-10-17 18:28|| Front Page Top

#20 "Do We Worship the SAME God?"

NO.

Next question?

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-10-17 19:26|| 2010-10-17 19:26|| Front Page Top

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