Article

2011-03-03 Africa North

Gates: Implementing 'no-fly' zone would involve military

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by gorb 2011-03-03 01:41|| || Front Page|| [7 views ] Top

#1 Sure, but 40% of Congress and 80% of the Executive Branch don't want to actually hurt anybody with our military.

Posted by Bobby 2011-03-03 05:56|| 2011-03-03 05:56|| Front Page Top

#2 Let's be fair. I'm not a military pilot, and I understand that the ~~Lawn Dart~~ F-18 drivers who would have to enforce the 'no-fly zone' have to be concerned with guys on the ground wanting to shoot back.

We should remember that the no-fly zone for Iraq, prior to 2003, consumed substantial resources. It was a LOT of work for our military. Libya is actually larger than Iraq, and the need to cover two separate zones (Tripoli in the west and Benghazi in the east) makes it a more challenging affair.

Plus, while certain European countries are talking big at this point, when push comes to shove the US could be on its own (again) in enforcing a no-fly zone.

So I don't blame Gates in the least for being hesitant about this.

Posted by Steve White 2011-03-03 11:01|| 2011-03-03 11:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Given present-time Libya, especially with their current distractions, it seems like it would be a walk in the park. Even if we just fly one over occasionally just to make Gadaffy pee his pants and to show our support for the folks on the ground who are braving machine gun fire with rocks and sticks.

Bullshit! An operation like this is never "a walk in the park". And that's exactly what Gates was saying. First off, there are a multitude of unknowns regarding Libyan capabilities all with varying degrees of risk. Even the most brilliant military minds will admit that in the end, given the complexity, their goal is that they account for the majority (Not all) of the risks. The second consideration is our capabilities. Remember, soon it will be spring time in Ghannie and if you hadn't noticed - we're kinda busy. Finally, to what ends would this mission accomplish? Alot of those "folks on the ground" seem to be carrying around alot more then "rocks and sticks". So exactly who are the "Anti-Qadaffy rebels" anyway? Do you think they will vew the US as liberators? Or do you really trust them not to take a few pot-shots themselves?

Nope this one has European command written all over it. Hey, I got an idea, maybe the mighty Spainish AF can take the lead on this one.

Posted by DepotGuy 2011-03-03 11:43|| 2011-03-03 11:43|| Front Page Top

#4 maybe the mighty Spainish AF can take the lead on this one.

The Italians are closer...

Posted by Steve White 2011-03-03 12:15|| 2011-03-03 12:15|| Front Page Top

#5 Gates has done a few head-scratchers, but here he is explaining to the likes of Kerry that this would be a military mission. Story about the OIC explicitly stating no intervention from anyone outside OIC. Story of British C-130 being shot-up by rebels who say they mistakened it as a Team Daffy transport. The folks on the ground seem to want air support without acknowledging publically thanks for such support. In the PR arena the admin gave up 2 goals in the first 5 minutes of the game. Any loss of aircraft for whatever reason would be a nightmare. Even if just an EU operation, by treaty it would be a de facto NATO Act of War, violating airspace especially without the cover of a UN resolution. Logistics, logistics, logistics.

Posted by swksvolFF 2011-03-03 12:23|| 2011-03-03 12:23|| Front Page Top

#6 Would you rather overfly Iran or Libya? Libya would be relatively easy. Yes I know there would be planning involved, but please leave room for something being more complicated than Libya, like Iran.

Gates is stalling so the politicos can go through their risk-avoidance calculations.

Obean is moving aircraft carriers around like game pieces, but is afraid to commit. $hit, maybe we should just put someone on the ship to pilot it around and that's it.

The Libyan army has taken the side of the people. Gadaffy probably hasn't been maintaining his air defense readiness. We don't have to fly over the whole country.

The country used to be tough to overfly, but not any more.

I don't advocate putting boots on the ground. Just keep the government scared and show support to the folks with the rocks and sticks.

Posted by gorb 2011-03-03 12:31|| 2011-03-03 12:31|| Front Page Top

#7 With all due respect gorb if you want boots on the ground in Libya I suggest you put on some boots.

With this admin and the modern understanding of war we would be committing more of America's sons and daughters to yet another godforsaken shithole to defend folks who probably don't like us already and won't appreciate us. Expose our troops to more terrorism. And make them do it with extremely risky ROEs and a media screaming "War Criminal" at those same troops the whole time - Oh and we get to spend 3 billion a month doing it. No thanks.

Posted by Hellfish 2011-03-03 14:56|| 2011-03-03 14:56|| Front Page Top

#8 Can I vote for sending our air force on a bombing run over Iran instead? ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2011-03-03 15:04|| 2011-03-03 15:04|| Front Page Top

#9 With all due respect gorb if you want boots on the ground in Libya I suggest you put on some boots.

No. I don't advocate for boots on the ground. Quite the opposite. Just harry Kadaffy and support the rebels. And stop flying over the country after they wave that they've got their hands on him.

I think of the idea as payback for Lockerbie bombing.

Posted by gorb 2011-03-03 16:48|| 2011-03-03 16:48|| Front Page Top

#10 The hell with finding the planes, they're old soviet crap anyway, for the most part, and wouldn't last 5 minutes in a dogfight with the US Navy. Just crater every runway in the country, and blow up the fuel storage.

Posted by mojo 2011-03-03 17:48|| 2011-03-03 17:48|| Front Page Top

#11 gorb, I'm in for some Lockerbie revenge - but let's just get Daffy's location and smartbomb the crap out of him.

Posted by Hellfish 2011-03-03 20:09|| 2011-03-03 20:09|| Front Page Top

#12 That works. If we can find him. I understand that the CIA trained him years ago in how to avoid getting caught, and that he actually had to put it into practice when Reagan went after him. I figure he's too insane to get what's going on enough to know if his bodyguards are really doing a good job, so if that knowledge or will isn't there today, we may be able to.

Posted by gorb 2011-03-03 21:09|| 2011-03-03 21:09|| Front Page Top

#13 Iff Uncle Muammar succeeds in staying alive + holding on to potent ruling power, IMO the number of US-NATO NFZ's may depend on how many sovereign? pieces Libya can be efffec divided into???

I'm a'thinkin ROUGH LONGITUDINAL = NORTH-SOUTH PARTITION LINES.

Mot more than 2-3 presum that each has access to maritime ports + fair share of local resources [read, Oil-Gas Wells,Other], ONE OF WHICH MUAMMAR WILL PROLLY RULE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-03-03 23:12|| 2011-03-03 23:12|| Front Page Top

#14 BHARAT RAKSHAK > {GCC = Persian Gulf] GULF STATES TO AID UNREST-HIT BAHRAIN, OMAN, wid their version of a MINI "MARSHALL PLAN".

Saudi Arabia repor has approxi 3000 troops at the Bahraini borders ready to unilater intervene, or else assist the local Bahrain Govt-Police upon the latter's request.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-03-03 23:17|| 2011-03-03 23:17|| Front Page Top

#15 Let me think a bit; several years ago we went downtown Libya with a couple of Tomcats and F-111's. one of the Aardvarks got shot down but the crew was recovered. As part of the set up for that a Blackbird did a fly over and while SAMs were launched was able to evade ( Mach 3.3+ will do that for ya). And that was when Daffy had an air force in one piece. I think that it would maybe not be a walk in the park but if the Prowlers and Electric Lawn Darts can't jam the electronics for a B1/B52 low level wake up call cratering the runways of Daffy's airforce, we should just scuttle all of it. The rebels need a feel good and a little bit of help would not be out of line. But Gates is taking a play out the Waffler-in-Chief's coloring book and dithering. they both disgust me. And don't get me started on that almost as worthless Mullen. poster child for mandatory condom use.

Posted by USN,Ret 2011-03-03 23:31|| 2011-03-03 23:31|| Front Page Top

23:54 Hotspur666
23:44 JosephMendiola
23:39 JosephMendiola
23:36 JosephMendiola
23:31 USN,Ret
23:26 JosephMendiola
23:21 JosephMendiola
23:17 JosephMendiola
23:12 JosephMendiola
23:01 JosephMendiola
22:25 trailing wife
22:21 gorb
22:11 trailing wife
22:11 Thing From Snowy Mountain
22:09 trailing wife
22:01 trailing wife
22:00 Frank G
21:59 trailing wife
21:58 Frank G
21:57 badanov
21:49 swksvolFF
21:33 trailing wife
21:30 trailing wife
21:29 SteveS