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2011-10-07 Home Front: Politix
The Curtain Lifts behind the Occupy Wall Street Protesters -- Bill Ayers
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Posted by Sherry 2011-10-07 17:03|| || Front Page|| [11147 views ]  Top

#1 IIRC NEWSMAX > RUSH LIMBAUGH: OBAMA IS "SETTING UP RIOTS".

versus

* TOPIX > AMERICAN SPRING, JASMINE REVOLUTION ON WALL STREET.

But the Spring can easily devol into Fall + ultimately Winter???
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-10-06 22:24||   2011-10-06 22:24|| Front Page Top

#2 That's inspirational, no mo uro.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-10-06 23:05||   2011-10-06 23:05|| Front Page Top

#3 It's true that there was much malfeasance on Wall Street.

I'd dispute this.

Wall Street were just selling what was legal and people would buy.

The problem is primarily with government failure to properly regulate and mandating high risk lending, and buyers who didn't properly evaluate the risks.

The banks main failing was failure to properly assess risk.

People who think banks are rife with dishonest and illegal acts get their reality from Hollywood movies, where bad stuff can always be traced back to bad men.
Posted by phil_b 2011-10-07 07:01||   2011-10-07 07:01|| Front Page Top

#4 I had to send no mo's rant to my adult children, because I think their parents did better by them. But then I had to educate them on Ayers, with a few quotes and the poster of him standing on the flag. Now I want to retch.

Hate Amercia, Bill-boy? Why didn't you move to Cuba years ago, you hypocrite! Syria's nice in the winter, and North Korea in the summer. I imagine you could work out some dandy retirement packages with their glorious leaders.

You have hated America for 50 years, so bad you want to destroy it.

I don't burn with that must hate, not even for you. I just want you to be irrelevant.

Again.
Posted by Bobby 2011-10-07 07:49||   2011-10-07 07:49|| Front Page Top

#5 #4 Phil B:

I'm not one of those who hates banks or bankers or financiers just because, Phil. Most of the ones I've worked with over the years both for personal and business reasons have been great and moral people. The bulk of the people in the financial industry are hard-working sorts trying to make a living, I get that.

And you're right that people were buying crap because they thought they were getting one over on the universe, or simply because they were stupid.

You're further correct that the bulk of the malfeasance rests with the government, both for looking the other way and for corruption and insidiousness.

Nonetheless, there was complicity on the part of some of the investment bankers and financiers on said corruption and it needs to be pointed out. Definitely not in the Hollywood "all bankers and capitalists are bad" nonsense fashion, but in an accurate fashion, just the same. Saying that there wasn't or isn't makes us as bad as the 99%ers.
Posted by no mo uro 2011-10-07 08:06||   2011-10-07 08:06|| Front Page Top

#6 #5 Bobby.

Of course, not ALL parents did the things I mentioned, Bobby. The ones that didn't have kids who are productive instead of attending these protests.

I share your rage at Ayers, he fouls the universe by his existence.
Posted by no mo uro 2011-10-07 08:08||   2011-10-07 08:08|| Front Page Top

#7 No Mo - that is a most excellent rant - definitely a classic.

The fact that the Labor Unions and Soros backed outfits make up the bulk of the 'protest' shows that this is not the 'grassroots' protest the organizers, media, and Administration claim it to be but just more astroturfing.

And the fact that the terrorist (not ex) Bill Ayers is involved should tell you everything you need to know.
Posted by CrazyFool 2011-10-07 08:08||   2011-10-07 08:08|| Front Page Top

#8 That. Is. Awesome. No Mo, I am going to be quoting from that one at length.
Posted by IG-88 2011-10-07 08:18||   2011-10-07 08:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Where is big sis?. Big no show. I wouldn't be surprised if the protesters are paid. Then I wouldn't be surprised if foreign elements were not disinclined to acquiesce to their requests for funding. Pirates the lot of'em.
Posted by Dale 2011-10-07 08:24||   2011-10-07 08:24|| Front Page Top

#10 People have to remember Rights are limitations on government (and not confuse Rights with entitlements and arguments over the proper function of the state and government).
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-07 09:33||   2011-10-07 09:33|| Front Page Top

#11 swksvolFF, there's only one JosephMendiola.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-07 11:04||   2011-10-07 11:04|| Front Page Top

#12 It's about kids with crappy degrees that went $100large in debt to get.
Posted by Beavis 2011-10-07 11:29||   2011-10-07 11:29|| Front Page Top

#13 I dont think these kids are all asking for a collective handout, but rather they want the world of opportunity that their parents and grandparents had that has been recently sold to China.

A lot of their _stated_ goals with regard to the oil and gas industry, in which I work, is to continue the policies which have exported it to Saudi Arabia.

If they want to propose a you-scratch-my-back, I'll scratch yours deal, that's nice. I haven't seen anything to that effect yet.

They are the people their agitators riled them against.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-10-07 11:46||   2011-10-07 11:46|| Front Page Top

#14 (Or continue to rile them against).
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-10-07 11:51||   2011-10-07 11:51|| Front Page Top

#15 Oh no g(r)om, I would not even say I'm just in a lesser league than JM, I would be embarassed to say I even play the same game ;)
Posted by swksvolFF 2011-10-07 11:57||   2011-10-07 11:57|| Front Page Top

#16 They do not seem to be protesting against the _socialist_ policies "Ominous1" and they mistakenly (and in some cases, deliberately) label "crony capitalism."
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-10-07 12:01||   2011-10-07 12:01|| Front Page Top

#17 #10, Dale, have a look at this:

paid demonstrators

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-10-07 12:18||   2011-10-07 12:18|| Front Page Top

#18 I see the OWS (as it is at the moment) in a stage similar to the first couple of months of the Tea Party movement, with obvious widely held discontent, a set of contradictory goals, funny costumes (don't forget those white wigs!).
The MSM, Bill Ayers, George Soros, Michael Moore and the usual cast of leftist clowns are trying to co-opt OWS, which was only to be expected.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. That particular pattern of abuse of the legal system has been thoroughly documented as true, and I don't care if Bill Ayers agrees with that or not. There have also been cases of banks stealing homes they never lent any money on, whose real owners purchased with cash. To my knowledge, no criminal charges have been lodged in the most egregious cases. Worse, a cabal of states attorneys general are now working on a scheme to validate the corruption of real estate law, laws against fraud, etc., brought to us by, yes, the financial industry, and not the US government. Barney Frank and the Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with that issue, just the financial industry.
I hold that OWS blindly lashing out at the 'corporate forces of the world' is as stupid as saying 'government is the problem' and that all regulation of the financial industry is wrong.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 13:23||   2011-10-07 13:23|| Front Page Top

#19 The funny thing is the more they talked about affordable housing and the more houses that were built, the more expensive it was. Then comes the mortgage meltdown, the cost of housing finally starts coming down a bit and they're freaking out about that. "Oh, no!" they say. "People are under water! We've got to do something to prop up the housing market!" I find that most peculiar.
I see nothing whatsoever peculiar about those contradictory goals. "They" don't really exist as a single entity, but are made up of competing special interests. Propping up housing prices and making housing cheaper are simply incompatible once you think through it. Growing an economy by piling up massive public and private debt is also ultimately impossible.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 13:29||   2011-10-07 13:29|| Front Page Top

#20 Credit is the answer and credit is the problem.

Why Credit? Increasing Credit causes a temporary bump in Money velocity simulating economic growth (but long term slowing it down with Interest hence credit needs to increase to keep the illusion going).

Why do Governments want this? The taxation favoured by governments is taxation on incomes (sales, income, savings, investment, corporation etc) and that harms economic growth, as fining people for wealth creation will of course do (they also reward people for not creating wealth to compound the problem).

How did they increase Credit Volume? Simple they lowered the reserve requirements so that one persons loan was another banks asset and this debt/credit cascaded into faking economic growth.

What happening now? You're seeing economic reality with real eyes.

What do you have to do? Go back to Classic Capitalism (see Adam Smith and David Ricardo) and tax what governments create namely land rights, contracts, patents, copyrights and other legal monopolies and STOP taxing wealth creation.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-07 13:55||   2011-10-07 13:55|| Front Page Top

#21 Propping up housing prices and making housing cheaper are simply incompatible once you think through it.

Right. But what I'm trying to say is the goal never was to make housing affordable. It was all a crock of crap. It was never anything but a big lie. You don't think Bawney Fwank understood that all those fraudulent exotic mortgages were going to result in housing inflation?

There were people who were making a helluva lot of money from the housing bubble and their pet politicians were only too happy to grease the skids as long as they got their bribes campaign contributions.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-10-07 14:12||   2011-10-07 14:12|| Front Page Top

#22 Poor justice. Another year of no sex for you was it? You seem terribly frustrated in incoherent.
Maybe your arranged rape/marriage thing in a black-sack isn't doing it for you?
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-07 14:16||   2011-10-07 14:16|| Front Page Top

#23 Here in Sacramento the organizer of the sometimes two dozen people who showed up could not outline his plan. When I passed by ground zero this am on my way to work, there was a tent and maybe ten people milling around it. Might have been homeless or could have been SEIU.
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2011-10-07 14:38||   2011-10-07 14:38|| Front Page Top

#24 Imagine you had a group that liked to protest from time to time but they kind of liked the President, yet had this need to get out there and feel good about themselves by protesting their pet causes. I wonder what such a protest movement would look like....

I suspect it would look exactly like what we're getting out of the Wall Street Occupation and we've got Dem operatives trying to guide and aim it but I suspect they won't have much success.
Posted by rjschwarz 2011-10-07 14:57||   2011-10-07 14:57|| Front Page Top

#25 But what I'm trying to say is the goal never was to make housing affordable. Some were fooled into thinking that was the goal, and statements to that effect were swallowed thoughtlessly by the MSM & the many other supporters of the housing bubble. Hardly any politician has pointed this out. Certainly NINJA loans, Alt-ARMS, 0% down loans, and failure to use traditional standards of mortgage lending created the illusion of housing that was easy to buy through a mortgage, although not so easy that it was possible for the original borrower to pay off.
There were people who were making a helluva lot of money from the housing bubble. And those same people are all still behind 'propping up real estate' by means fair or foul.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 15:10||   2011-10-07 15:10|| Front Page Top

#26 Since when have subsidies EVER made anything cheaper?
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-07 15:28||   2011-10-07 15:28|| Front Page Top

#27 You can sum up the “manifesto” of the 99%ers in three main statements:

1. I am absolutely entitled to be happy, stress free, anxiety free, perfectly healthy, well-rested, and entertained every waking minute of my life, and if I can’t pay for these things myself (for whatever reasons, including laziness and incompetence on my part) it is the responsibility of everyone else to do so.

2. If anything happens that all of these conditions aren’t met, then it is the primary police, regulatory, and tax-policy responsibility of government - and the primary obligation of taxpayers - to see that they are restored immediately.

3. If these things aren’t restored immediately, then I will use whatever means – electoral or violent – to smash anyone or any business who is better off than I am.

My response to these as follows:

1. There is no right to happiness. Only its pursuit. You are not entitled to a materially excellent, stress free, exciting life. Nobody who has ever lived is entitled to this. When you adopt the attitude that it is ultimately the responsibility not of yourself but of some agency outside of yourself to provide you with material satisfaction and happiness and freedom from anxiety, you void your humanity. The default condition of humans throughout millions of years of history is hungry, stressed, and in need of sleep. Until the past few decades in the Western and Westernized world and with a free market, capitalistic system, this is how most people lived. The capitalist system you all seem to hate also had some of this stress and is far from perfect, but it is the only one that gave people an opportunity (not a guarantee, an OPPORTUNITY) to do something about it. It’s not my fault that your politically correct history teachers imbued with leftist agendas failed to teach you any of this, or that your demagoguing leftist politicians were dishonest about what were historical norms in terms of what to expect out of life.

2. The primary purpose of government is to guarantee civil rights (negative rights, not positive economic ones), be an impartial judge in civil matters, provide equal access to energy and commerce, and then get the hell out of the way and let people sink or soar based upon their native skills, work ethic, and the value of their particular work at whatever the existing level of technology might be. Period. It is NOT to make sure that you have enough money for all the trinkets and outward signs of success and status. Not to free up money that you would have spent on medical care so you can have a new car by taking that medical money from your neighbor who earns more than you do. Not to put in regulations which guarantee your job security and income security at bulletproof levels. We’ve had governments that are like that in the last hundred years or so. Review them and their histories and their human rights legacy and then decide which is best, that way or this one.

3. It’s true that there was much malfeasance on Wall Street. The bad actors should go to jail. But everyone on Wall Street isn’t bad, and Wall Street is only a tiny fraction of the business community. It is insanity to paint all business people with a broad brush as you do and want to crush them with protests and support politicians who promote a ridiculous level of regulation. Smash business and your wealthier neighbors and you will destroy any opportunity for yourself. Everyone can’t have a good paying public sector job with great benefits where you don’t have to work very hard and can retire at 58. And what jobs there are that are like that will not be increasing in number as time goes by, given the obvious failure of the big-government welfare/nanny/hyperregulatory state. Success in the private sector requires that you learn to manage stress. That you purge envy from your life. Learn to multitask. Learn to work within a hierarchy even if you aren’t at the top. Learn that your are valuable to your boss if you need to be told how to do something only once and learn and retain it forever (something you would certainly demand if you were boss). Learn that you may have to move and make other sacrifices in order to be somewhere where your skills are in demand. Learn that you may not get all the material things you want quickly and at once. Learn to be happy with whatever pay rate your neighbors and community have decided your labor or product is worth on a free market . The very fact that you’re in this protest and failing to thrive, and that other young people are doing well and happy with less education and even lower pay than you, is prima facie evidence that you have not learned at least one and possibly several of these necessary things. It’s not the fault of George Bush or businesspeople or devout Christians or Republicans - or Democrats, even. It’s your own deficits, or your own stubbornness.

Beyond these specific things, there are other points I would make.

Your anger and efforts would be better directed at the (largely government) education system. In this you have been ill-served. It is overpriced, staffed primarily with people who aren’t there to be excellent but to get thirty years of guaranteed pay and a pension, who are not at all averse to using the bully pulpit they possess to propagandize instead of teach and conveniently forget to mention aspects of philosophies or historical facts that blow holes in their narrative, and their marketing of their services with respect to ultimate financial expectations has been largely dishonest. If you didn’t fit in exactly to their expectations or were difficult to teach they would put you on Ritalin or some other drugs. That said, nobody forced you to go deeply into debt for an “education” that is more often an indoctrination with no guarantees of a marketable skill.

Likewise, your parents did you no favors. They had you play soccer in leagues that didn’t keep score and gave trophies to all the teams regardless of how good or bad they were, shielding you from the concept of winning and losing, the notion that not everyone has the same skill set, and the idea that actions have consequences. They supported the notion of getting rid of class rank for valedictorian, got rid of physical education and home economics and recess. They filled you with the poisonous notion of outcome egalitarianism, the greatest lie of all.

The minute you were “unhappy” your parents brought you to the doctor and put you on happy pills. They bubble wrapped you so you would never be hurt or suffer consequences for bad actions or words. They insisted you go to college instead of getting a trade because they wanted to impress everyone with how awesome they were as parents as evidenced by sending all their kids to college.

Your media and information industry failed you, getting you to think that supporting Obama in 2008 was a blow against Wall Street by not reporting that Wall Street gave him five times more money than McCain. Protesting Wall Street but not Obama is illogical but understandable if you aren’t aware of his campaign finance connections. (If you know about them and are still protesting Wall Street but not Obama, you’re a hypocrite.)

However, your biggest failure is to yourself. Whatever people or circumstances led you to believe that you deserve to have perfect, stress free happiness and everything you wanted or the government would get it for you, they were wrong, and so are you. Want to be successful and ultimately happy? You’ll need to learn that you will have to sacrifice much in the short term. You’ll be best friends with the concept of delayed gratification. You’ll have to learn to deal with high stress levels, lack of sleep, and lack of material status among peers, not for a few hours or a day or two but for weeks or months or years. You’ll learn to exist not being fully happy for extended times in your life – without happy pills. You’ll learn that there are things in life that make you happy like religion, community, volunteer work, and so many other things that have nothing to do with pay.

You’ll learn to deal with all of this with dignity and a sense of humor, not pouty aggrieved entitlement.

Or you’ll fail utterly and cosmically deserve to fail, regardless of what happens to Wall Street.

Occupying Wall Street isn’t the solution.
Posted by no mo uro 2011-10-07 15:29||   2011-10-07 15:29|| Front Page Top

#28 Had to repost, it seems like someone excised my original comment, a lot of work went into it so I did save it just in case.
Posted by no mo uro 2011-10-07 15:30||   2011-10-07 15:30|| Front Page Top

#29 Subsidies have been necessary for several decades now, to prop up our 'shuck and jive' economy.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 15:31||   2011-10-07 15:31|| Front Page Top

#30 #28 - glad you did. I was wondering what happened to it.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 15:32||   2011-10-07 15:32|| Front Page Top

#31 no mo -- that was ME!! and I was the one that requested we keep the article because of your comment!

Justice posts were long ones.... and I was breezing through, grabbing the long ones.

I'm so sorry -- and glad you saved a copy!!!!!
Posted by Sherry 2011-10-07 15:33||   2011-10-07 15:33|| Front Page Top

#32 A lot of similarities to the recent "social justice" protests in Israel---accident?
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-07 15:35||   2011-10-07 15:35|| Front Page Top

#33 Best criticism of OWS I found here: they’re not willing to put in the work to find out The world is complicated. It takes a certain amount of work and study to even figure out what the hell is happening, much more to figure out who to blame...

Does that mean these protesters should do nothing? I don’t think so. I think it means that these protesters should learn more. Somebody needs to go down there with books, and research papers, and copies of the Economist. And instead of marching and chanting, everybody down there needs to take a day or two to sit and read..
I just think it would take quite a bit more than a day or two or reading.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-07 15:42||   2011-10-07 15:42|| Front Page Top

#34 You should post Mo's article on tomorrows burg in the opinion section. It's good.
Posted by newc 2011-10-07 18:58||   2011-10-07 18:58|| Front Page Top

#35 CHINA DAILY FORUM > GARY NORTH: US TO AVOID HYPERINFLATION UNLESS GOVT. NATIONALIZES THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM.

and

* SAME > RON PAUL INTRODUCES LEGISLATION TO CANCEL US$1.60TRILYUHN IN DEBT TO FEDERAL RESERVE.

Iff youse is still wondering iff those so-called "QES" = Cold War Soviet/Commie-style budget, accounting write-offs, WELL WONDER NO MORE.

[1970's-1980's MEXICO, ARGENTINA, BRAZIL MULTIPLE CURRENCY, DEBT INDEXATIONS here].

versus

* SAME > BANK OF ENGLAND:INFLATION IS PRICE WORTH PAYING TO AVOID DEEPER RECESSION.

* SAME > EU MUST PEG CURRENCIES TO EURODOLLAR TO STABILIZE MARKETS.

A-L-L the EU States, not one, two, or several.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-10-07 22:12||   2011-10-07 22:12|| Front Page Top

#36 CHINA DAILY FORUM > JP MORGAN FUNDED NYPD WALL STREET ARRESTS.

and

* SAME > IN ABSENCE OF A CREDIBLE PLAN, WE WILL HAVE GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELTDOWN IN TWO TO THREE WEEKS, SAYS IMF ADVISOR.

* SAME > ECONOMIC APOLCALYSPE GOES MAINSTREAM: IT WILL SPREAD EVERYWHERE [around World], MOST SERIOUS FINANCIAL CRISIS EVER, WORSE THAN THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-10-07 22:23||   2011-10-07 22:23|| Front Page Top

#37 NEWSMAX > TRUMP, KIYOSAKI: UNEMPLOYMENT NEAR DEPRESSION-ERA LEVELS.

[Abbott-n-Costello vs. Bing, Bob, Dorothy "ROAD" Movies here].

and

* SAME > GOP: OBAMA, BIDEN PUSHING WALL STREET PROTESTS.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-10-07 22:44||   2011-10-07 22:44|| Front Page Top

#38 It's cool. I've changed, and have just enlisted in the US Army (phD age waiver) as an E-1!

See 'ya all on the street soon (I'll have TP, cash and dope if Daddy comes through, ha-ha!)
-at-the-link-:

http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2010/09/after-denial-anti-american-faculty-of-uic-to-fight-for-bill-ayerss-emeritus-status/
Posted by Sping Panda9115 2011-10-07 22:57||   2011-10-07 22:57|| Front Page Top

23:42 Barbara
23:42 trailing wife
23:33 trailing wife
23:14 Sping Panda9115
23:05 trailing wife
22:42 gorb
22:26 USN, Ret.
22:24 JosephMendiola
22:21 JosephMendiola
22:20 Sping Panda9115
22:19 USN, Ret.
22:18 JosephMendiola
22:16 JosephMendiola
21:18 Frank G
21:04 Eohippus Phater7165
21:03 Barbara
20:57 Eohippus Phater7165
20:55 Barbara
20:46 Creregum Glolump8403
20:41 Creregum Glolump8403
20:40 Thing From Snowy Mountain
20:35 lotp
20:33 lotp
20:26 Eohippus Phater7165









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