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2012-08-25 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by lotp 2012-08-25 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 They're selling us a bridge for San Francisco Bay, right? Doesn't sound promising, though considering who some of the Bay Area residents are, I guess we could get lucky.

Posted by Glenmore 2012-08-25 00:21|| 2012-08-25 00:21|| Front Page Top

#2 hey, we can't all get lucky!

or non-corrupt, or incompetent.

Posted by Frank G 2012-08-25 00:28|| 2012-08-25 00:28|| Front Page Top

#3 Any reason to question the amount of fly ash used?

Posted by trailing wife 2012-08-25 06:42|| 2012-08-25 06:42|| Front Page Top

#4 Doesn't mean the design was poor. Could be that the 'cousin of an in-law' was awarded the welding, rivets, concrete or other materials concession (kind of like they do in Chicago). QC would then be a non-existent item.

TW's 'fly ash' comment is probably not far from the truth in this case.

Posted by Mullah Richard 2012-08-25 08:14|| 2012-08-25 08:14|| Front Page Top

#5 A 320-foot section broke off when four heavy trucks drove onto the bridge,

Don't forget the other culprits. We do have weight limitations and weight stations for a reason. Doing a tactical move in Korea, had to do a recon to check the max load on bridges [spacing between vehicles included] and overhead clearances.

Posted by Procopius2k 2012-08-25 08:55|| 2012-08-25 08:55|| Front Page Top

#6 I've read other articles (this is something like the fourth major bridge to collapse in the last year) that indicate the bridges are not "over-engineered" which could be the result of shoddy design. The Chinese can design and build great things, but they can also cut corners.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2012-08-25 08:56|| 2012-08-25 08:56|| Front Page Top

#7 Too much melamine in the fly ash?

Posted by SteveS 2012-08-25 09:26|| 2012-08-25 09:26|| Front Page Top

#8 I recall another weak bridge in China that collapsed, it was found to have a covering of thin concrete over Garbage, the builders were hung.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2012-08-25 11:11|| 2012-08-25 11:11|| Front Page Top

#9 How well were they hung RJ ?

Posted by Besoeker 2012-08-25 11:16|| 2012-08-25 11:16|| Front Page Top

#10 By the neck, until dead.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2012-08-25 14:53|| 2012-08-25 14:53|| Front Page Top

#11 How well were they hung

I C what U did there...

Posted by Pappy 2012-08-25 15:18|| 2012-08-25 15:18|| Front Page Top

#12 Doesn't mean the design was poor. Could be that the 'cousin of an in-law' was awarded the welding, rivets, concrete or other materials concession (kind of like they do in Chicago). QC would then be a non-existent item.

TW's 'fly ash' comment is probably not far from the truth in this case.

It's possible that everyone in on the contract who could cut corners did, figuring that he'd be safe, because everyone else would make his component to spec. I'm sure lots of contracts have some honest contractors leavened with dishonest ones. I suspect bridge collapses occur only when every contractor is dishonest. It should be interesting to see which one ends up being the fall guy.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2012-08-25 15:41|| 2012-08-25 15:41|| Front Page Top

#13 It's also possible that all the contractors were up to snuff but due to insufficient design review or bad placement, soil erosion, etc., that just wasn't enough.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-08-25 16:06|| 2012-08-25 16:06|| Front Page Top

#14 Another example of what's called "tofu engineering".

Posted by gromky 2012-08-25 16:57|| 2012-08-25 16:57|| Front Page Top

#15 It's possible that everyone in on the contract who could cut corners did,

The mountains are high and the emperor is far away, as the saying goes. Not an international trade expert by any means, but from what I hear, this is pretty much business as usual in China.

Posted by SteveS 2012-08-25 17:37|| 2012-08-25 17:37|| Front Page Top

#16 You're correct, Thing. We b*tch about 'soil studies' being so drawn out and tedious, but in this case those (and the resulting caisson design based on conditions encountered) were probably slim to non-existent.

Posted by Mullah Richard 2012-08-25 18:12|| 2012-08-25 18:12|| Front Page Top

#17 Based on the view in the photo at the link, it does appear to be an upper support structure and/or pier failure.

More photos here.

Posted by Mullah Richard 2012-08-25 18:18|| 2012-08-25 18:18|| Front Page Top

#18 there is no reason for a failure other than criminal ineptitude and/or criminal theft. Designs are required to have a minimum 2.5 - 3 factor of safety. Any major project would have adequate site investigations to eliminate "unforeseen site conditions".

It's either incompetence or theft by supplying substandard materials. The Chinese build some great structures, and their designers are world-class, often trained here. It's just a matter of whether specs are met and material supplied is proper and installed per plan. Absolutely no excuses

Posted by Frank G 2012-08-25 19:02|| 2012-08-25 19:02|| Front Page Top

#19 FG: The Chinese build some great structures

Can't speak to the current ones, but their 7th century forebears were certainly no slouch in that regard, if the 1100-mile Grand Canal is anything to go by.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2012-08-25 20:06|| 2012-08-25 20:06|| Front Page Top

#20 And yet China remains absolutely positively categorically undeniably unequivocally....@etc. "you betcha" certain about THREE GORGES DAMS + RELATED.

In effect, a "guaranty" by Beijing.

THIS MAY OR MAY NOT END WELL.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-08-25 22:46|| 2012-08-25 22:46|| Front Page Top

23:28 JosephMendiola
23:26 European Conservative
23:24 Frozen Al
23:23 Alaska Paul
23:06 Alaska Paul
22:48 Odysseus
22:46 JosephMendiola
22:42 JosephMendiola
22:38 JosephMendiola
22:37 Odysseus
22:37 JosephMendiola
22:19 Procopius2k
22:14 Iblis
21:43 Bill Clinton
21:25 DepotGuy
21:15 mojo
20:57 Spot
20:54 Cromert
20:49 Pappy
20:27 Cromert
20:20 tu3031
20:06 Zhang Fei
19:50 Secret Asian Man
19:42 Secret Asian Man