Article

2016-05-12 Government

New Benghazi Witness Says U.S. Military Could Have Saved Lives That Day

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Posted by Besoeker 2016-05-12 00:27|| || Front Page|| [11136 views ] Top

#1 Cue Mad Magazine face

What? me worry?

Posted by newc 2016-05-12 00:36|| 2016-05-12 00:36|| Front Page Top

#2 We know.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2016-05-12 03:10|| 2016-05-12 03:10|| Front Page Top

#3 ...Everybody...

Fox News got taken out to lunch on this one, and allow me to explain why.

It would have taken at least 90 minutes to two hours to get two birds properly configured for the 1,034 mile trip between Aviano and Benghazi, and that would have meant overlooking a fairly good sized chunk of The Book. This is JUST loading (20mm and AIM-9 ONLY - if you want any kind of air-to-ground munitions, add another hour or three to the time), fueling, and preflight checks - I will assume the aircrew could have been briefed en route. But even then it would have taken at least another two - three hours just to get there at any speed that would not have required scrambling a tanker into the mix.

First, we have to hang the targeting pods on the birds, and we've now just added a bit more time to the frag, not to mention the added time to build the PGMs in the first place - either guided bombs or AGM-65s (you are going to HAVE to send two of each - you don't dare assume that the first one won't crap out on you) need to be assembled and checked out before hanging, then transported out to the line, mated with the aircraft, and then checked out again. (BTW, we don't just have assembled bombs lying around for quick upload - the components stay properly and safely stored until needed lest the weather and human nature make them unusable.)

Second, the added weight has now increased our fuel usage, and we were cutting it close in the first place. Hopefully we can have a tanker or two on station as they come back. Either way, they aren't going to have enough fuel for more than one or two passes - but only if they fly slowly enough that they won't get there in time to do anything. And let's get that 'hot pit refueling' crap outta the way right now - hot pit is a absolutely real procedure for refueling/rearming a bird with minimum delay...but it requires them to LAND. Last time I looked, there were no bases in the Mediterranean Sea for them to land ON.

Third, collateral damage rears its ugly head. I don't think the 250 lb SDB is on the Lawndart yet, so that means at the very least a Mk82 500 lb weapon...with a 2000 ft danger zone from point of impact. Unless that mortar is in an open field with a half-mile on either side of it, we're hurting things we don't want to hurt. And as has been pointed out there was no direct contact between the guys on the ground and the Lawndart drivers.

So, once they get to Benghazi, close to or slightly past bingo fuel, the F-16s have only seconds to orient themselves, pick up the laser, and then drop, and all of that assumes everything works perfectly.

The reality of it is that unless there were armed and ready aircraft with tankers on station, there was little if anything we could have done. This story does nothing but embarrass Fox News and cloud the issue even further. I have no sympathy for the morons who allowed Benghazi to happen, but stories like this don't make it any better.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2016-05-12 05:48|| 2016-05-12 05:48|| Front Page Top

#4 Mike. Sounds as if you're positing birds just coming from the factory with the cosmoline still fresh. Is that how they--every last one of them--stored?
Back in the day when I had the misfortune to be in Air Defense, we had an accidental genuine alert. The firing batteries were up faster than the surprise alerts--which featured guys sleeping soundly at zero-two in boots and field jackets. Of course, our parents had been adults on Dec 7, so there may be a difference.
So, are you telling us that every F16 stands bare, empty, and clean? Every last one?

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2016-05-12 07:58|| 2016-05-12 07:58|| Front Page Top

#5 Richard,

Sadly, that is the case. It is likely that Aviano would have 2-4 birds cocked for air intercept alert, but AIM-9, AIM-120, and 20mm would have been useless in any effort to save the men on the ground. Now, if they had birds dragged for CAS - CBUs, AGM-65s, etc - that would be one thing. But there's no evidence that there were. As far as Aviano was concerned, it was just another day.

Also wanted to mention something I left out of my first post - even if the troops performed a miracle in getting the birds ready, they weren't going anywhere unless and until the Italians signed off on it. Remember that the Italians put vehicles on the runway to keep us from getting away with the bad guys after the Achille Lajro intercept.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2016-05-12 09:05|| 2016-05-12 09:05|| Front Page Top

#6 I will bet that under President DJ Trump, the Italians will block our military aircraft from using runways in Italy exactly ONCE.

That is the same ONCE as the number of times that any randomly selected naval vessel can serve as a minesweeper.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2016-05-12 11:25|| 2016-05-12 11:25|| Front Page Top

#7 Great comments MK.

Posted by Shipman 2016-05-12 12:06|| 2016-05-12 12:06|| Front Page Top

#8 Mike. When I was in ADA--Herc--as S1, a terrible place for a simple but honest grunt, our commander told us from time to time that his staff's job was to find out how he could do what he wanted to do, not why he couldn't.
If it had been our command team at Aviano, and in the hustle and bustle, young Aubrey had forgotten to call his Italian counterpart to tell him all about it, it probably wouldn't have counted against me on my next OER.
Some of the reports had it that the requests were for, at least, a flyover, presumably going burner at 200 ft. Might have worked.
20mm is kind of surgical, all things considered.
There was a report that one of the ground guys was using a laser designator which, younger types tell me, you don't do unless you have comms with somebody ready to shoot for you.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2016-05-12 12:11|| 2016-05-12 12:11|| Front Page Top

#9 Fascinating insight into the complexities of the Aviano response, my bigger question is what other response options Africom or the 5th fleet had?

Posted by NoMoreBS 2016-05-12 12:24|| 2016-05-12 12:24|| Front Page Top

#10 I understood that the gentleman was using a laser designator to fool the miscreants into thinking that they were being targeted.

Kept the 'Red Team' pinned down for a while I was told. Our guy was trying to buy some time.

Posted by Mullah Richard 2016-05-12 14:26|| 2016-05-12 14:26|| Front Page Top

#11 5th Fleet, or any Carrier Battle Group would typically have a couple of go-fasters on the Alert 30 status; along with a recovery tanker; so it seems likely that at least a fly over could have been done to mark time until properly loaded birds arrived.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2016-05-12 14:54|| 2016-05-12 14:54|| Front Page Top

#12 We never tried, so we'll never know.

I get what Mike is saying and thank you, Mike, for the detailed explanation.

Posted by Steve White 2016-05-12 16:33|| 2016-05-12 16:33|| Front Page Top

#13 Yes. Mike's explanation beat any other I have heard to date. This is definitely going into the Benghazi folder/

Thank you.

Posted by newc 2016-05-12 17:27|| 2016-05-12 17:27|| Front Page Top

#14 and nobody anticipated that on a certain anniversary, elements of "Kill those F*ckers" might need to be armed, loaded, ready-crewed? I find that totally believable with the Regime and Hillary!, but our military should have better planning based in reality, not Obama-Reality

Posted by Frank G 2016-05-12 20:25|| 2016-05-12 20:25|| Front Page Top

#15 Unfortunately, FP is now run by politics, not reality and that is what we must prepare ourselves for.

You do not have 400 NSC members unless you want nothing to get done.

Posted by newc 2016-05-12 21:54|| 2016-05-12 21:54|| Front Page Top

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