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2020-03-27 -Signs, Portents, and the Weather-
New York To Perform Massive Real-Time "Experiment" With Hydroxychloroquine For Coronavirus Patients
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Posted by Besoeker 2020-03-27 07:06|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ]  Top

#1 But if they’re going to do that, why not turn it into a true drug trial and start tracking the results systematically instead of just dosing it out haphazardly? You have thousands of "test subjects." If the drug is effective, it’s a gamechanger for the whole world. Let’s collect the data.

Actually, there is no need too. You just compare the death rates with places that don't use quinine derivatives - a distributed clinical trial.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-27 07:12||   2020-03-27 07:12|| Front Page Top

#2 I believe I have heard all I need to hear from Dr. Fauci.
Posted by Besoeker 2020-03-27 07:20||   2020-03-27 07:20|| Front Page Top

#3 "Experts have been brought in to make sure this trial fails gets the politically desired result..."
Posted by M. Murcek 2020-03-27 07:21||   2020-03-27 07:21|| Front Page Top

#4 I suspect its being tried in other countries. Don't want your results to significantly mismatch those others find. Best way to protect yourself (and your organization) is to avoid 'fixing' the results.
Posted by Procopius2k 2020-03-27 07:45||   2020-03-27 07:45|| Front Page Top

#5 And as soon as anything goes slightly bad, Andrew Cuomo will run out in front of a camera and blame Trump for it.
Posted by Raj 2020-03-27 07:47||   2020-03-27 07:47|| Front Page Top

#6 This drug, IIUC, has been used for many years, so I would think that all the possible downsides are well known and, since it is still in use, not so horrible.

What exactly are the "horrible" results anticipated by Fauci et.al. if they're not the ones mentioned by MM?
Posted by AlanC 2020-03-27 08:00||   2020-03-27 08:00|| Front Page Top

#7 Horrible results: "We didn't follow the proper procedure."

I've been taking the drug for 13 years, with no side effects. I just hope I get to keep taking it, and that the supply is not sucked up by NYC and hoarders.
Posted by Bobby 2020-03-27 08:32||   2020-03-27 08:32|| Front Page Top

#8  What exactly are the "horrible" results anticipated by Fauci et.al. if they're not the ones mentioned by MM?

Horrible results:
1) the combination does not cure the patient or at least does not reduce symptoms to a non-deadly level, so that there is no change in the survived/died statistics versus those who were not treated with the combination, or
2) the combination actually makes things worse, and more patients die than would have if they had not been treated.
Posted by trailing wife 2020-03-27 09:35||   2020-03-27 09:35|| Front Page Top

#9 So, the "If it saves one life" mantra does not apply in this case.
Posted by M. Murcek 2020-03-27 09:45||   2020-03-27 09:45|| Front Page Top

#10 The alternatives are pretty bad. Every hour you are on a ventilator your risk of fatality increases.

If it's safe to take (i.e. doesn't make things worse) then I see no downside. And there are LOTS of early reports of success including the NY doctor who claims to have personally treated 500 patients and seen every one recover.
Posted by Iblis 2020-03-27 10:11||   2020-03-27 10:11|| Front Page Top

#11 Both of these drugs are well known, and have been in use for decades. The major risk is QT prolongation, which can result in a fatal arrhythmia called Torsades de pointes, a type of ventricular tachycardia that can devolve into ventricular fibrillation and cause cardiac artrest. This simply requires closer monitoring of the cardiac rhythm via EKG and administration of beta blockers like propranalol.

The issue seems to be that its more effective given earlier in the infection, and the trial will be on people who are well into their infection cycle. If they want to truly test it, use it on high risk patients as soon as they are diagnosed, along with control cases that test positive but are low risk.
Posted by Marilyn Tojo7566 2020-03-27 10:58||   2020-03-27 10:58|| Front Page Top

#12 If you give it to a large number of people some will feel the side effects, and for some tiny fraction the side effects will be dangerous/lethal. That's true for pretty much any drug. The question is, does it keep more people from dying?

And, of course, when is the best time to give it? Before symptoms, mild symptoms, severe? Maybe it helps mild cases from developing further, but it's too late when somebody needs a ventilator.

But reporters need dramatic cases.
Posted by James  2020-03-27 12:15|| https://idontknowbut.blogspot.com  2020-03-27 12:15|| Front Page Top

#13 Spreading False hope, false hope!
Oh, it's not Trump? Never mind.
Posted by ruprecht 2020-03-27 14:27||   2020-03-27 14:27|| Front Page Top

#14 #10 First case in NY was march 1. So, exactly when he treated 500 people?
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-27 14:38||   2020-03-27 14:38|| Front Page Top

#15 If both drugs have been in use for a long time,
The major risk is QT prolongation, which can result in a fatal arrhythmia This major risk should be well measured and understood, true?

As a member of the higher risk demographic I'm getting a trifle pissed at all the dicking around about this.

Fauci is sounding more and more like a bureaucrat in the pay of some big Pharma outfit.
Posted by AlanC 2020-03-27 15:59||   2020-03-27 15:59|| Front Page Top

#16 #10 First case in NY was march 1. So, exactly when he treated 500 people?

https://forward.com/news/national/442285/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump-doctor/
Posted by Iblis 2020-03-27 16:54||   2020-03-27 16:54|| Front Page Top

#17 ^has been doing that for more than a week

(A) How many of 500 tested positive before treatment? How many after?
(B) His earliest patient was a week ago?
(C) 500/6 = 83 per day?

This smells worse than a 1000 years egg.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-27 17:08||   2020-03-27 17:08|| Front Page Top

#18 I thought this experiment had begun last week based on the news reports.

Darn.

We needed to do that last week as deaths per day have continued to increase in the USA (a week ago fewer than 100/day, this week more than 200/day and today it will likely top 300.
Posted by lord garth 2020-03-27 17:10||   2020-03-27 17:10|| Front Page Top

#19 Experiment? What the heck, it was approved for medical use in the United States in 1955...for other diseases. There must be a large database on the effects of HCQ on humans.
Posted by JohnQC 2020-03-27 17:46||   2020-03-27 17:46|| Front Page Top

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