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2022-07-13 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Volyn massacre: Polish and Ukrainian society are not ready for reconciliation
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Posted by badanov 2022-07-13 00:00|| || Front Page|| [6 views ]  Top

#1 ...Let me gently point out to Stanislav the existence of the Katyn Forest and the Holodomor.

Russia has a great deal to answer for, gospodin Stremidlovsky. You had better hope and pray that the Poles and Ukranians don't decide to pay it back with interest.

Mike
Posted by MikeKozlowski 2022-07-13 08:27||   2022-07-13 08:27|| Front Page Top

#2 Russians have acknowledged the executions of Polish officers in WWII, most of which took place in areas other than Katyn Forest.

Those acknowledgements include memorials on sites where the executions have taken place.
Posted by badanov 2022-07-13 08:29||   2022-07-13 08:29|| Front Page Top

#3 ...about that memorial.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-07-13 08:35||   2022-07-13 08:35|| Front Page Top

#4 
#2 Russians have acknowledged the executions of Polish officers in WWII, most of which took place in areas other than Katyn Forest.

Those acknowledgements include memorials on sites where the executions have taken place.
Posted by badanov 2022-07-13 08:29|| 2022-07-13 08:29|| Front Page || Comments Top

Badanov,

You are absolutely right, and I should have probably included that detail. As see it though - and this is IMHO, YMMV of course - that a sculpture, and one probably put up with less than a willing heart, simply cannot cover the damage that Russia inflicted upon Poland over the last few centuries. It's even less likely to do so given that the Russians really, really seem to want to go all Ivan Grozny on the Ukranians and the Poles again.

The Poles and the Ukranians have a 'Never Again' attitude every bit as strong as that of Israel. The Russians would do well to understand that, though at this point I'm not sure they will short of a bloody defeat.

Mike
Posted by MikeKozlowski 2022-07-13 09:55||   2022-07-13 09:55|| Front Page Top

#5  ...about that memorial.

Which drives one to ask, why did Russia choose to add insult to injury by taking down the Polish flag at the Katyn Massacre memorial? What message does that send?

This strikes me as a combination of special pleading and Lets you and him fight in an attempt to fracture the anti-Russia sentiment across nearly the entirety of the former Russian conquests.
Posted by trailing wife 2022-07-13 10:46||   2022-07-13 10:46|| Front Page Top

#6 It's even less likely to do so given that the Russians really, really seem to want to go all Ivan Grozny on the Ukrainians and the Poles again.

You get no argument from me. Russians seem to want to enforce what I call the Slavic pecking order, at the bottom of which are the Poles. Below them are the Ukrainians.

This strikes me as a combination of special pleading and Lets you and him fight in an attempt to fracture the anti-Russia sentiment across nearly the entirety of the former Russian conquests.

See the Russian film "White Tiger" The subtext of that film is that the Russians blame not just Nazi Germany for the invasion in 1941, but the entirety of Europe.

They want secure borders and if they have to grind the bones of every Ukrainian into clay, by God, they'll have it.
Posted by badanov 2022-07-13 12:35||   2022-07-13 12:35|| Front Page Top

#7 They'all been scrappin' since forever.

White Tiger is wild.
Posted by swksvolFF 2022-07-13 13:24||   2022-07-13 13:24|| Front Page Top

#8 Bejayzus, what a lovely thread to (sorta) wake up to. Seriously, thank you all for being you... and for tolerating me.

A modern day "nazi" might say
That that grinding Ukes' bones into clay
Had been two decades done
Before German gun one
Opened fire in its comradely way.
Posted by Glonter Peacock9977 2022-07-13 13:56||   2022-07-13 13:56|| Front Page Top

#9 They want secure borders...

Speaking as a geo-political idiot: The thing that puzzles me is that Russia's longest and most dangerous border is with China. Now I know Putin and Xi have pledged to be Best Friends Forever, but that reminds me of of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, or two scorpions in a bottle. And Putin seems to be stripping his eastern defenses to support the Special Military Operation.

Would the Chinese actually attack? I don't think so, but I'm willing to bet that whoever commands the Chinese forces in the east has had an erection lasting more than four hours.
Posted by Matt 2022-07-13 15:11||   2022-07-13 15:11|| Front Page Top

#10 Would the Chinese actually attack? I don't think so, but I'm willing to bet that whoever commands the Chinese forces in the east has had an erection lasting more than four hours.

It could well be the whole basis for Putin's war is to secure his western flanks, before the Chinese wake up one morning and decide the dude ain't worth it.

Posted by badanov 2022-07-13 15:17||   2022-07-13 15:17|| Front Page Top

#11  Would the Chinese actually attack?

I’ve read that empty Siberian villages (or whatever that part of Russia nearest the Chinese border is called) have been quietly housing illegal Chinese settlers for a generation or more. Why should China attack what they already have?
Posted by trailing wife 2022-07-13 15:58||   2022-07-13 15:58|| Front Page Top

#12 The Myth of a Chinese Takeover in the Russian Far East
The Chinese presence in Siberia and the Far East is actually declining, not growing.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/06/the-myth-of-a-chinese-takeover-in-the-russian-far-east/
Posted by Aca Joe  2022-07-13 16:36||   2022-07-13 16:36|| Front Page Top

#13 From that article:

But perhaps the biggest factor that predicts a reduced Chinese presence in the future is the dire economic conditions in the Russian Far East. When asked about their businesses, Chinese traders in the region unanimously state that it has become less profitable over the past few years, citing local consumers’ waning purchasing power as the primary cause. More specifically, they point out that the Russian ruble has lost half its value relative to the dollar since 2014, making goods imported from China more expensive for locals suffering stagnant nominal wages. Combined with continuing depopulation, the local consumer base is shrinking fast, with little prospect for a sustained rebound in the future. As profits suffer, all traders mention many colleagues closing up shop and leaving Russia for good, with ever fewer newcomers to replace them.

So the argument would be that the Chinese won't invade because the Russian Far East is not worth having. Sure you want to go there, Joe?
Posted by Matt 2022-07-13 17:03||   2022-07-13 17:03|| Front Page Top

#14 My learning for today — an important update over what I used to know. Thank you for that exchange, gentlemen. :-)

There is also the issue of the coming depopulation of China...
Posted by trailing wife 2022-07-13 17:19||   2022-07-13 17:19|| Front Page Top

#15 @Matt that’s was no my point. I been in China even when was real China and everyone was dressed in blue and the Chinese give to us a vip treatment tours a the jade Buddha temple, friendship store tours, the Chinese gift us with a lot of presents mostly vials of ginseng I never like China
Our company never did business with them.
Mexican textile industry amigo.
Posted by Aca Joe  2022-07-13 17:32||   2022-07-13 17:32|| Front Page Top

#16 ^ You should outsource to Bangladesh, Joe. Make a profit, honest. India is second cheapest.
Posted by Dron66046 2022-07-13 17:37||   2022-07-13 17:37|| Front Page Top

#17 I never like China
Our company never did business with them.

Smart. Jordan and Viet Nam are other labels I’ve been seeing in recent years. and Egypt has been working on expanding from growing their long staple cotton to weaving it, though Mr. Wife reported a uniquely inshallah approach in their factories that took Third World to a new level — he was working with chemical suppliers rather than sewing fabric, but the attitude is no doubt consistent.

Lots of possibilities to turn our backs on the Chinese factory floor after accepting the need to walk away from investments there.
Posted by trailing wife 2022-07-13 17:53||   2022-07-13 17:53|| Front Page Top

#18 Old historic borders are still old historic borders. Russia is not the only one with such claims.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-07-13 18:07||   2022-07-13 18:07|| Front Page Top

#19 Though from the Aca Joe website...

Where are Aca Joe products manufactured? China, India, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

Maybe there are several aca joes.
Posted by Dron66046 2022-07-13 18:08||   2022-07-13 18:08|| Front Page Top

#20 These are neat stretchy cargoes! And they deliver to Tx.
Posted by Dron66046 2022-07-13 18:15||   2022-07-13 18:15|| Front Page Top

23:58 Rob Crawford
23:53 trailing wife
23:53 York Harding
23:49 trailing wife
23:46 trailing wife
23:31 Seeking Cure For Ignorance
23:15 Moonbeam Mcswine
22:58 Shatle Gurly-Brown1146
22:50 Canuckistan sniper
22:38 Canuckistan sniper
22:24 Seeking Cure For Ignorance
22:19 Canuckistan sniper
22:17 Canuckistan sniper
20:33 Lord Garth
19:58 Rex Mundi
19:37 Frank G
19:11 Lord Garth
19:07 Lord Garth
18:55 Deacon Blues
18:52 Lord Garth
18:42 swksvolFF
18:37 M. Murcek
18:29 Dron66046
18:27 M. Murcek









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