Article

2023-06-22 -Land of the Free

Elite Air Force operators brace for uncertain future as Pentagon pulls plug on A-10 Warthog fleet

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Posted by Skidmark 2023-06-22 11:45|| || Front Page|| [12 views ] Top

#1 Must be budget crunch time again. They would also cancel the B-52s for some new wunderwaffe if they could get away with it.

Posted by magpie 2023-06-22 12:18|| 2023-06-22 12:18|| Front Page Top

#2 Turn over the program (and funding!) over to the army.
Watch the blue suits scream.
The Air Force likes to pretend nothing useful happens below 10,000 ft., and that they should have exclusive control over all flying.
The war happens on the surface.
The closest the air power advocates came to justification was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Think on that.

Posted by ed in texas 2023-06-22 12:23|| 2023-06-22 12:23|| Front Page Top

#3 Dumb, just dumb. Why do they hate the CAS mission and the perfect aircraft for it?

Posted by NoMoreBS 2023-06-22 12:45|| 2023-06-22 12:45|| Front Page Top

#4 The Marines had their own CAS aircraft. So, instead the Army will just lobby for rotor aircraft to do a similar mission, when what we have already does the job. How many billions will that be?

Posted by Procopius2k 2023-06-22 12:52|| 2023-06-22 12:52|| Front Page Top

#5 I love the A-10, but we aren't in an insurgency war anymore and it wouldn't survive long in Ukraine. It is getting long in the tooth and it is time to find its replacement. Maybe a stealth drone that can hover and brrrrrrrt you to death.

Posted by DarthVader 2023-06-22 12:56|| 2023-06-22 12:56|| Front Page Top

#6 The original Airmobile Division planned to have OV-1 Mohawk armed with 5" Zuni rockets as its integral Air Artillery units -- the USAF screamed and hollered (Key West Agreement) and the Army switched to helicopter gunships. It looks more and more that giving the CAS role to the USAF is a bureaucratic blunder because the USAF high command just doesn't think it is sexy enough.

Posted by magpie 2023-06-22 13:00|| 2023-06-22 13:00|| Front Page Top

#7 My son is an Air Force officer (not a pilot). He says that the A-10 is not good enough if you don't have air superiority. It is very vulnerable to modern fighters.
Personally, I love the A-10. Ground pounders love the A-10. Only the Air Force hates it.

Posted by Rambler in Virginia 2023-06-22 13:28|| 2023-06-22 13:28|| Front Page Top

#8 What plane is 'good enough' to loiter and give quality CAS if you don't have 'Air Superiority'? There are plenty of anecdotes about 'fast flyer' jets from Vietnam that did a "zoom 'n boom" before leaving the battlefield whether they did any good or not.

Further I have always believed that specialization also applies to pilots (and their unit ethos) -- train a unit to specialize in air superiority (which includes bombing enemy airfields) and they get good at that and that only. The bean counters love their "multi-role wunderwaffe" but in the real world the war requires different folks doing their best in different roles -- specialists.

Posted by magpie 2023-06-22 16:02|| 2023-06-22 16:02|| Front Page Top

#9 ....Sooooooooo let me see if I got this straight:

1: We don't need the Hog any more because we can do CAS with the Lightning.

2: We're getting rid of the specialist teams that would enable the Lightning to do CAS in the first place.

There is no way in Hell any commander is going to risk F-35s in a CAS scenario. Even if they're not lost, even slight damage takes a big chunk out of the plane's stealth.

Mike

Posted by MikeKozlowski 2023-06-22 16:12|| 2023-06-22 16:12|| Front Page Top

#10 I'm fond of mating the A-10 with the U2 for long dwell border patrol.

Posted by Skidmark 2023-06-22 16:49|| 2023-06-22 16:49|| Front Page Top

#11 Re #2 and #9, Dan Hampton in his autobiography Viper Pilot talked about being commended by the Army and grounded by the USAF for "going below 10,000'" in the same action. The requested CAS mission was obscured by a low, well lower than 10,000', cloud deck and he went in anyway -- against standing orders to stay above the magic number.

I can see the following about the F35 "...We are sorry to refuse your CAS request. Our meteorologist states that you would have to go below 10,000' exposing the RAM stealth paint to 'significant risk' and voiding the warranty. Have a nice Day and Good Bye!"

Posted by magpie 2023-06-22 19:12|| 2023-06-22 19:12|| Front Page Top

#12 You do CAS with drones not with A-10. In anything rassembling a real war A-10 is very vulnerable to SAM's.

Posted by Spomonter Speaking for Boskone8031 2023-06-22 20:35|| 2023-06-22 20:35|| Front Page Top

#13 ...and the drone would be any less vulnerable than an A-10? If its deadly enough for the A-10 then the drones aren't going to work either.

Posted by Procopius2k 2023-06-22 20:38|| 2023-06-22 20:38|| Front Page Top

#14 that GAU drone out yet? Pretty sure SAMs are lesser effective in low altitude environment

Posted by Butch Squank7877 2023-06-22 20:39|| 2023-06-22 20:39|| Front Page Top

#15 Check out book ‘flying in the face of fear’ and the AF Capt that refused to leave her broken bird over enemy territory. So shot ip they crapped it on site. But it got her home.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2023-06-22 21:02|| 2023-06-22 21:02|| Front Page Top

#16 Law of Diminishing Returns strikes: a drone that could carry a big bomb load is both as big as a manned vehicle and too expensive to throw away. The best drones should be expendable and if they come back it is a plus ...kind of like SpaceX being able to reuse their rocket boosters but being willing to sacrifice them as necessary.

Posted by magpie 2023-06-22 22:00|| 2023-06-22 22:00|| Front Page Top

#17 So nobody likes the A-U idea?

Posted by Skidmark 2023-06-22 23:42|| 2023-06-22 23:42|| Front Page Top

23:43 Skidmark
23:42 Skidmark
22:39 Woodrow
22:00 magpie
21:42 Bill Scourge of the Ostrogoths9574
21:35 ruprecht
21:08 trailing wife
21:07 USN, Ret.
21:02 USN, Ret.
21:01 trailing wife
20:41 NoMoreBS
20:40 Procopius2k
20:39 Butch Squank7877
20:38 Procopius2k
20:35 Spomonter Speaking for Boskone8031
20:15 Frank G
20:11 badanov
19:47 Rambler in Virginia
19:34 USN, Ret.
19:29 SteveS
19:12 magpie
19:04 Frank G
19:01 lord garth
18:43 Frank G