Prominent Saudis dismissed US accusations of severe violations of religious freedom in the kingdom and said on Thursday that the criticisms were politically motivated.
"Pooh!"
"Pooh!"
"Yes, pooh!"
Government officials were not immediately available over the Muslim weekend to respond to Washington's decision to put Saudi Arabia on a blacklist of countries of "particular concern" in an annual report on Wednesday tracking religious freedom worldwide. But the move was met with scepticism by many in the kingdom, whose close alliance with the United States has come under increasing strain in the last three years and become an issue in the US presidential campaign. "I can't say Saudi Arabia is the freest country. But it is the cradle of Islam. Are they proposing to have churches or synagogues or Buddhist temples here?" said Abdulaziz al-Fayez, a member of Saudi Arabia's consultative Shura Council. "All Saudis are Muslims and this is a Muslim state".
Uhuh. That's the problem, bub. All Soddies are Muslims, whether they want to be or not. If they decide they don't want to be Muslims, somebody'll kill them. Why not have churches or synagogues or Buddhist temples? Do you, deep down, lack the conviction that your religion is able to compete with them?
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 9:29:13 PM ||
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Along similar lines....it seems odd that the useful idiots of this world have never questioned the fact that, in this time and age,in Saudi, there are two cities, Medina and Mecca, where people like themselves will be asked to stay in the outskirts because they are not worthy enough to enter them. Aren't equality and non-descrimination the mantra of those idiots?
From Geostrategy Direct, requires subscription.
Blinding statement of the obvious(BSO), but shows in numbers the staggering wealth that is not going to the right place in the ME.
Think Islamists are angry with the West? Forget it. Their greatest anger is reserved for the Arab despots who have become among the wealthiest people in the world as their people are mired in poverty. A new study to be released later this month at the International Islamic Finance Forum in Istanbul shows the rich are getting much richer in the Middle East. The study reports that private wealth in the Middle East -- particularly in Gulf Cooperation Council states, such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia -- is growing at an unprecedented rate thanks to soaring oil prices. How rich is rich? The study said conservative estimates of private wealth in the GCC are around $1.5 trillion. Think of the entire federal budget of the United States. Holy Schitskis!
The sheiks are putting away their money for a rainy day. Like when they have to boogaloo to Switzerland or somewhere else in Eurabia when s**t hits the fan and the "people" are coming for their heads!
The report said close to half of the private wealth in the GCC -- or $650 billion -- was being figuratively stashed in a mattress invested. Most of the money, $400 billion, went to international financial institutions, while the rest went into Islamic banks. Who are given a token amount to keep them soft and pliable.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 7:18:42 PM ||
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The British and Irish governments summoned rival Northern Ireland parties Thursday to a moat-encircled castle in hopes of crafting a new peace package for the British territory. But progress in the expected three-day diplomatic push at medieval Leeds Castle east of London could depend, crucially, on the actions of an organization not officially at the table: the outlawed Irish Republican Army.
How many years have they been working on this?
A Catholic-Protestant administration for Northern Ireland — the central achievement of the U.S.-brokered Good Friday peace accord of 1998 — fell apart two years ago after suffering a string of crises linked to the IRA's activities and refusal to disarm.
It's called "negotiating in bad faith."
The prime ministers of Britain and Ireland, Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern, have long agreed that any revival of power-sharing requires the IRA to disband. Both are gambling that, under their stewardship this week, negotiations with the IRA's Sinn Fein party will finally deliver that goal.
Yeah. I'm gambling that I'm gonna wake up slender and svelt tomorrow morning, with a full head of hair...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 9:56:35 AM ||
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It's being held in a castle with a draw-bridge. No-one gets out unless they want to swim the moat. An agreement of sorts could be likely.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/16/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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#2
an organization not officially at the table: the outlawed Irish Republican Army
Mmmm...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/16/2004 11:25 Comments ||
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#3
Another euphemism for terrorist, outlawed organization.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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#4
The IRA will probably disarm when the Prods do..........that is to say, when hell freezes over. It takes a while to forget 700 years of British "stewardship".
#6
BD no point trying to reason with IRA supporters. It was my first experience with the type. Then the ladies with Watchtower started knocking at the door on Saturdays.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 13:00 Comments ||
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#7
Think I prefer the IRA to JW's.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/16/2004 13:04 Comments ||
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#9
Jehova's Witness, the ladies with the Watchtower.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 13:15 Comments ||
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#10
No Surrender.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/16/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#11
*crickets*
What you hear around this house when the JW comes down the street. Even the dawgs know the routine, duck and cover, no noise, no movement and wait at least an hour longer than you think necessary.
#12
The alternative being to demonstrate to them their incomplete understanding of the verses they've memorized. I assign homework: generally several books to read, and a list of questions to ask their minister in order to achieve proper understanding of the basis of their faith.
Not only do they not come back, but nobody rings our doorbell for months afterwards.
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday reiterated his refusal to negotiate with Chechen separatists, warning critics against applying what he called a double standard in the definition of terrorism.
He also said he won't negotiate with Beelzebub, Mephistopheles, or Satan...
Speaking two weeks after armed militants seized more than 1,200 children and adults at a school in southern Russia, Putin rejected calls that the Kremlin should negotiate with renegade Chechen leaders, such as Aslan Maskhadov, in order to bring peace to the war-ravaged region. At least 338 people were killed by the time the standoff ended. "We believe that there should be not only the same definition of terrorism for everybody but we should also mean the same thing when we talk about it," Putin said at a meeting of presidents from former Soviet republics held in Kazakhstan. "The atrocities that we faced in Beslan give us the right to say that those events were organized by members of the 'terrorist internationale,'" he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 10:13:41 AM ||
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Putin Won't Negotiate With Chechens
He's far too busy negotiating with the Iranians.
"The atrocities that we faced in Beslan give us the right to say that those events were organized by members of the 'terrorist internationale,'" he [Putin] said.
BIG CLUE: That "terrorist internationale" is partly centered in Iran. You are feeding the hand that bites you. Prepare to throw more Russian children into the meat grinder if you cannot bring yourself to disengage with Iran.
Russia's chief prosecutor said some of the weapons used by the militants behind the hostage-taking at a southern Russian school were obtained in a series of attacks on police posts in June. Prosecutor General Vladimir Ustinov's comments, made in an interview published Thursday in the Kremlin-backed newspaper Rossiskaya Gazeta, offered further evidence that the hostage-taking at School No. 1 in Beslan may have been organized by notorious Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 10:06:27 AM ||
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I also hear that the truck driver was not properly licensed.
EFL
Residents of Ingushetia say thousands of their fellow Ingush who live in North Ossetia have fled the region in the two weeks since the school attack, blamed on radical Islamist Chechens and Ingush. ... In our village [in North Ossetia], lots of people have sent their children and women away [to Ingushetia]. Only men remain. We have had no problems with the Ossetians so far, but we are ready to fight if we must" ...
It's too bad you're not ready to get along with your neighbors...
The two nations have clashed before and fought a brief war after the collapse of the Soviet Union over disputed land. Some 19,000 Ingush are still refugees from that conflict, their plight overshadowed by the larger number of refugees from the decade-long war further east in Chechnya. ... "The Ossetians want to take our land and be the main nation in the Caucasus. The Russians are helping them. Allah forbid that anything should start, but if it does, then we will fight." ... The end of mourning on October 13 could provide the occasion. ... "Every member of our family has a gun. I think after the mournings and the burials the Ossetians will try to do something," said Roza Seynaroyeva, 53.
Posted by: The Caucasus Nerd ||
09/16/2004 2:53:03 AM ||
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#1
Lets see Should I support a bunch of fools who worship a black rock under a tent (an idol) or a bunch of Orthodox Christians. Hmm .. I'll go for the guys with the swinging incense stenchers and the crazy beads. They look pretty hip to me.
#2
âThe Ossetians want to take our land and be the main nation in the Caucasus. The Russians are helping them. Allah forbid that anything should start, but if it does, then we will fight.â
Poor Muslems, attacked by EVIL Zionist Crusaders from Bali to Caucasus.
#3
I'd just get the heck out were Ingush. The Belsan massacre was one of the most vile attacks in HISTORY! If Russia's history is any indication, revenge will ensue. With Russia backing the Ossetians, fighting would be a waste.
President George W. Bush on Wednesday urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to "uphold the principles of democracy" in a carefully worded message expressing concern about Putin's proposed political reforms.
Bush offered his first comment on Putin's proposal to do away with elections by popular vote for governors in Russia's 89 regions. Candidates would instead be selected by the president and approved by regional assemblies. Bush counts Putin as a strong ally in the war on terrorism, has invited him both to his Camp David retreat and his Texas ranch, and meeting him in 2001 said he had gotten a "sense of his soul".
But aides said he wanted to speak out about what U.S. officials increasingly see as moves that could set back the clock on Russia's transformation from its Soviet past. "As governments fight the enemies of democracy, they must uphold the principles of democracy," Bush was quoted by Reuters as saying. The U.S. leader said he had recently spoken to Putin to express his condolences about the Beslan deaths, blamed by Russia on Chechen rebels.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:19:12 AM ||
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Good for Bush. This is why I think he is a great president. Despite the fact that we need Russia and they need us, Bush is holding to his ideals of freedom and democracy.
Putin is becoming a monster. I'm glad Bush has the guts to express his concern.
Russian police investigating the deadly Beslan school siege are looking inside their own squad house: One of the attack organizers was allegedly a former cop who disappeared six years ago.
He wouldn't be the first to turn traitor. Turncoats have appeared in the highest ranks of law enforcement in the Caucasus. Police have been implicated in kidnappings for ransom and accused of allowing Chechen rebels free passage through checkpoints -- motivated by either money, sympathy for the fighters' cause or family ties, or a combination of all three.
Vyacheslav Izmailov, a former army major who has worked to resolve kidnappings in Chechnya, said one example of a high-ranking turncoat is a former interior minister of Ingushetia, a Russian region neighboring Chechnya. Daud Korigov, minister from 1997-98, gave rebels the use of a house he owned in the Chechen capital Grozny and was even seen there among captives, Izmailov said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:16:49 AM ||
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With 15% of the Russian population being Muslim it's no surprise. The Iraqi government has an even bigger problem. Of course, it's a two-way street - they can also place agents within the jihadi movement much more easily. Here again, there's an asymmetry. If a jihadi agent is caught, he goes to jail. If an Iraqi government agent is caught, he is tortured to death. Not an easy obstacle to get past.
#2
Police have been implicated in kidnappings for ransom and accused of allowing Chechen rebels free passage through checkpoints -- motivated by either money, sympathy for the fightersâ cause or family ties, or a combination of all three.
This, lex, is why I have taken your recommendation for the new alliance of the 21st century with a grain of salt. Once before I have pointed out the "breathtaking capacity for corruption" in the former Soviet Union. (The added factor of Chechnya being a former Soviet satellite state-right?-still under Russia's control makes finding a good terror policy for Russia an utter nightmare).
#3
I don't propose an alliance. More like a hug your enemy strategy, or if you like, a full-court press on Putin to go our way much as Musharraf, that other dictator atop a criminalized state with a highly disloyal, anti-western security service, has done.
Stop viewing Russia as a western democracy in the making. Better to think of Russia as Pakistan North, only with white faces and black shirts. Russia is a failing state, and the mafiya's favorite money-laundering outlet, Dubai, just so happens to be a favorite for the jihadists and their backers. We need a strong Russian president who will crack down on this. No truly democratic Russian leader could do so effectively. The democratic institutions in that country are far too feeble for that to happen anytime in the next fifteen years, and we don't have that much time to wait.
Our Russia policy has been a not-so-deliberate wish to see Russia democratic and weak. That won't cut it anymore. I'd rather see a strong(er), more effective Russian state that can actually help us in this war--even at the cost of less democracy.
#5
Sorry, Jules, I should have written "we Americans should stop viewing Russia as a democracy in the making."
The Pakistan model is deeply disturbing to me, esp as I have Russian family there, but I think that's the most accurate and useful one. The FSB are out of control. As are the regional governors. THe Russian state is so completely incompetent it's in danger of collapsing, which would throw open the ex-SovUnion WMD candy store to the Iranians and Dubai middlemen for the jihadists. Scares me sh-tless.
#6
Russian family in Russia. Trust me, I know whereof I speak when I say this nation is failing. If the price of oil falls back to earth, the entire rotten structure will collapse. The only thing propping it up is $40+/bbl oil.
#7
I believe you. I don't have family in Russia, so I can appreciate how much more important this is to you, but I have two very dear friends who both came to the US from Russia, and they have family there.
They keep me on my toes when I start getting too uppity about how I see Russia.
First through police bungling, then in part through a petty bribe, the two Chechen women who killed themselves and 88 others in the bombings of two Russian passenger jets last month were able to pass uninspected through layers of airport security and checks, even after being identified as possible terrorists, Russia's senior prosecutor said Wednesday.
The fresh details that came to light on Wednesday about the worst terrorist acts to strike Russia's aviation industry provide a chilling view of the nation's weaknesses as it tries to defend itself from escalating terror strikes.
In an interview with the Russian news media, Prosecutor General Vladimir V. Ustinov said that the two women had been detained in the airport shortly before boarding, but both were released by a police supervisor and one swiftly bribed her way onto the aircraft she would later destroy. She paid a paltry sum: the price to board Sibir Airlines Flight 1047, a Tupolev-154 with 45 other people on board, with a ticket for the next day's flight was equivalent to $34, Mr. Ustinov said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:15:18 AM ||
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A fiery explosion in North Korea has set off an unhelpful debate in the American presidential campaign. Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee, has pointed to the blast, detected by satellite last week, as evidence that President Bush's approach to North Korea is a failure and risks causing "a nuclear nightmare." In fact, it is Mr. Kerry's rhetoric that is dangerous. The explosion, which caused no known deaths and did not appear to release any radiation, is obviously cause for concern. (Foreign diplomats are trying to get permission to visit the site.) The Bush administration's customary approach to North Korea, based on consultation with North Korea's neighbors and skepticism of its motives, is exactly what is necessary.
#4
It never ceases to amaze me when Kerry shoots off his mouth about which he knows nothing. A major explosion occurs in Nork and he causes GW's policy a failure. Kerry brings nothing of substance to the table except generalizations and platitudes. That is just one of the reasons that he will be defeated.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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#5
Good for the NYT!
(Did I just say that?)
I'm pretty sure there's a Keyhole Satellite parked somewhere above the Nork. Aiding in President Bush's patient wait-and-see attitude.
Keep flapping your ignorant gums, Botox Boy! There are others than myself who revel in your dropping numbhers.
Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
09/16/2004 13:45 Comments ||
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Christians in North Korea were subjected to biological warfare experiments, according to a U.S. government report Wednesday. The States Department's annual report on international religious freedom quoted North Korean defectors as claiming that Christians were imprisoned and tortured for reading the Bible and talking about god, and that some Christians were subjected to biological warfare experiments.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/16/2004 12:32:04 AM ||
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The North Korean defectors have failed to do their research on how to spring the US into action. They should have reported Moslems in trouble if they wanted us to go to bat for humanitarian reasons. Look at our recent track record.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/16/2004 2:11 Comments ||
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Yeah exactly, don't get me started on the "dear leader" ! I am wondering just how many nth Korean c/camp inmates were utilised and flogged, to speed up the clean up of the latest (innocent) mushroom cloud. Anyone else smell a rat ?
Posted by: Susan ||
09/16/2004 7:40 Comments ||
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Congrats, Susan.
You got through a Rantburg post without blaming the US or Bush. ;o)
#4
While I am sure that IF there were any active Christians in North Korea they would suffer, I really doubt there are any around today. There is NO contact with Christian organization with the exception of the few groups that were allowed to operate relief agencies. These groups were not allowed unrestricted contact with the population and I doubt that they could find many converts among them. These people are totally indoctrinated from the time of birth to worship only one god and the is Kim Il Sung. I have doubts that any Nork would embrace Christianity from a foreigner, especially someone who is non-Korean. Donât get me wrong, North Korea is a HORRIBLE they can and do torture, maim, or kill anyone at the whim of Kim Jung Il. However, I believe this story is made up by refugees (defectors) that want to escape that socialist paradise. They tell the U.S. what they want to hear so they can resettle in the south or maybe in the U.S. Itâs been done before.
#5
You really think so, Sarge? I understand that almost all South Koreans are baptized and believing Christians, and this isn't something new to the Korean peninsula. The Christian faith is especially helpful for individuals and small groups trying to survive with their spirit intact within a larger, hostile environment. And layer on top of that the traditional Asian respect for family elders, which would make it easy to pass on the faith, and relatively easy to keep as a quiet family tradition.
#6
Everything and anything is possible in dear leader's paradise. It will take quite a while to return the North Koreans to the Human Race.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 21:58 Comments ||
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Actually, Cyber Sarge, surprisingly enough there is a network of Christians within North Korea that is growing, according to reports from Open Doors and Voice of the Martyrs. I'm not sure that any of the reports are online; I think they tend to keep that type of report confined to their hardcopy newsletters and emails, because it makes it less likely to be picked up by the wrong people (and because neither one has a great website). Obviously they can't say a whole lot about it beyond extreme generalities, but I do know that they have operatives on the "inside". Some of the refugees who flee to China return to North Korea to evangelize the people there, at great risk to themselves of course. And Voice of the Martyrs sends balloons over the border from South Korea that have scripture printed on them. North Korean Christians wait for them in the woods and pick them up. In Soon Ok Lee's memoir of her time in a North Korean prison camp, during which she was NOT a Christian, she notes the presence of Christians in the camp, and it was their behavior that started her down the path to her eventual conversion after she escaped from North Korea.
#8
Soon Ok Lee also discovered after leaving North Korea, when she heard some hymns sung in South Korea, that her mother had sung hymns to her as a small child. Her mother was probably a Christian, but never mentioned it to Soon Ok Lee because of the severe repression. I should also say that I didn't mean to imply that the population of Christians in North Korea is large. I believe it is still small, but larger than it used to be. Before the madness, it was very large, but large-scale extermination will tend to cut down on numbers.
#9
Things may have changed, but the largest religious denomination in South Korea used to be "none". However, I have known many Korean Christians and, for the most part, have been very impressed with them as people. I tend believe this story because there is no depravity that is beneath Kim Jong Il and the thugs that run North Korea. Only Madeline Albright could love perverts like these.
A topless protester flashed the prime minister and a cheeky hairdresser offered him an eyebrow wax as John Howard continued his election campaign through marginal West Australian seats today. The protester, Karina Castin, smeared in fake blood and wearing a black headscarf, lifted up a large placard reading "Blood of Iraqi children" to expose her bare breasts as Mr Howard and his wife Janette arrived at a business lunch in Perth.
"This is the blood of Iraqi children! These are my honkers!"
She was chased by a policewoman who tried to cover her body with a blue police T-shirt before she was eventually cornered and encouraged to put a shirt on. "I wanted to shock and horrify him," Ms Castin said. Mr Howard did not appear to notice.
"Janette, those were the ugliest honkers I've ever seen! I was shocked and horrified!"
"I told you not to look, John!"
The prime minister has spent this week campaigning in marginal seats in Adelaide and Perth. It was his image, not his policies, that drew attention when he poked his head into a hair and beauty salon. "We do eyebrow waxes," the owner called out cheekily, prompting the prime minister to reply: "Maybe next time." Mr Howard bought tickets in Saturday night's $19 million Lotto superdraw and shook hands with cleaners during the street walk in suburban Forrestfield
Posted by: tipper ||
09/16/2004 10:57:34 AM ||
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I think its time they come up with something new. Nude protests somehow failed to stop the war in Iraq or anything else.
#6
your chances are only slightly higher if you purchase a ticket
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/16/2004 12:53 Comments ||
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#7
No pictures? And the link requires registration. I certainly don't intoend to register for porno.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 12:56 Comments ||
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#8
You don't want to see the pictures. Shocking... Horrifying...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 13:59 Comments ||
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#9
Fred, are the pictures horrible enough to be mounted on posters and strung across mosques around the world? Not that I'm suggesting people do that...
Posted by: Charles ||
09/16/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#10
She's that old?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 15:19 Comments ||
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#11
Shock and Horror instead of Shock and Awe? Maybe the message was delivered by the wrong person.
"What we have here is a personnel problem...."
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 15:42 Comments ||
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#12
Free Pr0n, no problem Google is your friend. Trust Mullah Troll.
Allan Be Praised.
I sure as heck hope Howard wins BTW.
Posted by: Trolling for Allan ||
09/16/2004 18:23 Comments ||
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#13
I really liked Tim Blair's little one liner after she mentioned that she had camped out in a forest for 6 weeks before this:
"and then she was tagged and returned to the wild"
Posted by: Aussie Mike ||
09/16/2004 23:42 Comments ||
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German intelligence sources said Wednesday they had no information, which could confirm a report claiming Syria had tested chemical weapons in cooperation with the government of Sudan on black Africans in Sudan's troubled Darfur region. Germany's Die Welt newspaper - citing "Western intelligence reports" - said dozens of people were killed in the tests carried out from last May. Frozen corpses were brought to a Khartoum hospital after the tests and examined by Syrian doctors, said the report. The report did not identify what type of chemicals were allegedly used in Darfur but said five airplanes from Syrian Arab Airlines flew in the chemical weapons and specialists from Damascus.
"We find the details very surprising and would have evaluated them differently," said a German intelligence source speaking on the condition of anonymity. Asked to comment on the report a spokesman for Syria's embassy in Berlin said: "We have nothing to say on this - the newspaper can write whatever it wants." He refused any further comment. In Washington, a U.S. State Department spokesman said the U.S. was "not aware of any corroboration of the transfer of Syrian chemical weapons to Sudan". In a statement, the official said the U.S. would follow up on the allegations, adding: "There have been reports for several years alleging use of chemical weapons in Sudan. None of these have been corroborated."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:24:37 PM ||
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"I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________Sgt. Schultz
The French government said Wednesday it was still trying to authenticate a statement purportedly made by Islamic militants holding two French journalists hostage that called Paris an "enemy of Muslims". "We are still analyzing the message to verify its authenticity. At this stage, we cannot draw any definitive conclusions," government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope told reporters.
"This statement can't possibly be real. We've done everything they asked!"
"We continue to work cautiously and confidently, with our main concern being the safety of our countrymen," he added.
For the love of Allan, stay cool!"
The hostage-takers initially demanded that Paris rescind its ban on the wearing of Islamic headscarves and other "conspicuous" religious insignia in state schools, but the law went into effect on September 2 as planned. After an unprecedented wave of condemnations from the Arab and Muslim worlds, the group seemed set to release the men but there had been no news for about a week until Tuesday. On Tuesday, the group purportedly called France an "enemy of Muslims" and listed a number of "crimes" carried out by Paris against several Muslim countries in a statement published on a website. "France has distinguished itself for its war against Islam and Muslims and has committed butchery against the nation," said the statement. The statement noted that "true dhimmi-tax paying professionals, be they journalists, doctors or others, who grovel appropriately before us and do not carry out any activity of sabotage ... are not the target of the Islamic Army." "We respect those who are on a genuine humanitarian mission ... and are not pursuing missionary or intelligence objectives," it added.
"Don't start waving dictionaries at us. We will define all those terms for you."
#1
i) The dates of the incidents are 3rd, 7th and 15th September.
ii) None of the perps are described as 'Asian' (they're black or 'dark blonde').
I'm guessing there's no Muslim element to this, and that this is just a trendy new muggers' game that'll stop once they find the holes in their baggy jeans...
France is to spend £8.7 billion on a programme to tackle unemployment, disaffection and increasing religious extremism in its Muslim-dominated ghettos.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/16/2004 12:28:08 AM ||
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#2
Since they're calling it a "Marshall Plan" I suppose they want us to pay for it.
I really hate those f*cking slimy French bastards!
Posted by: Tibor ||
09/16/2004 1:37 Comments ||
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#3
Sounds more like the Great Society than the Marshall Plan. Public housing projects, bussing and plenty of welfare for all. Will the dad's be the single parents under French sharia?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/16/2004 2:07 Comments ||
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#4
If they're smart, they'll spend most of the money on electric fences.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/16/2004 3:03 Comments ||
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#6
What ever happen to my pretty good society? People laughed at my WIN buttons but, hey! Looks like they worked! BTW I could whip Jimmuah the C in everything from chess to chineese checkers.
Posted by: Gerald Ford ||
09/16/2004 9:48 Comments ||
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#7
and we all know how much good it does to dump money into ghettos. No doubt it won't go to police to stem the violence or loans to start businesses.
No, it will go to programs to teach the French how to understand the Muslims and grant money for useless projects that study how to deal with "religious extremism" and other such grant grasping crap.
#11
If they're smart they'll pay a few mellow Sufi Islam preachering Turks to come on in and work the mosque circuit in the ghettos. Someones got to undo the Wahhabism and I just don't see French Haute Culture as the antidote.
#14
Yeah...yeah...that's the ticket alright. Give the Muslims a taste of a Marshall Plan. God knows 60 years later France still unfailingly shows it's gratitude and support to the country that paid for the original Marshall Plan.
Posted by: Mark Z. ||
09/16/2004 18:01 Comments ||
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Woman wearing 'President Bush You Killed My Son' T-Shirt disrupts first lady's rally
A woman wearing a T-shirt with the words "President Bush You Killed My Son" and a picture of a soldier killed in Iraq was detained Thursday after she interrupted a campaign speech by First lady Laura Bush. "John Kerry - I don't like you 'cause you're gonna get me killed" - Hugh Hewitt
Police escorted Sue Niederer of Hopewell, N.J., from a rally at a firehouse after she demanded to know why her son, Army 1st Lt. Seth Dvorin, 24, was killed in Iraq. Dvorin died in February while trying to disarm a bomb. Honorable fellow.
As shouts of "Four More Years" subsided, Niederer, standing in the middle of a crowd of some 700, continued to shout about the killing of her son. Secret Service and local police escorted her out of the event, handcuffed her and placed her in the back of a police van. Grief-stricken doesn't excuse everything.
The first lady continued speaking, touting her husband's record on the economy, health care and the war on terror to those attending the rally in this suburban community of 90,000 people near Trenton. Good idea- let it pass.
Mrs. Bush made several references to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks during her speech. She said that many in New Jersey, including some in neighborhoods near the firehouse, lost family members that day. That's why it is good that the whacko was arrested. Out of respect to those other folks there. How many people did the rag'ead facists kill on 9/11?
"Too many people here had a loved one that went to work in New York that day," Bush said. "It's for our country, it's for our children, our grandchildren that we do the hard work of confronting terror." Of course, the arrestee probably really wants to wear a burka
No, I think she's grieving for her son. But Ms. Niederer has been spending too much time with the Not in our Name folks...
#2
My heart breaks for anyone that has lost a child. I have experienced this first hand and know all too well how it feels. But, Lt. Dvorin enlisted and chose to serve his county of his own free will. He was an adult who made an adult and informed choice. I'm sorry but rule #1 in combat is people die.
Zenster the other day posted re the parents in Russia suffering due to the deaths of their children. These children died simply because they went to school. Lt. Dvorin died working to stop killers like those responsible for the schoolkids deaths.
Sue Niederer will never forget her son's death but, she must suck it up and carry on. To do otherwise dishonors her son and his sacrifice.
#3
She's just plain disgusting and a disgrace. I can understand her anger over her son's death. She's lashing out in a sense of frustration, but to do it that way dishonors her son's service and sacrifice. She put her politics in front of her love of her son and THAT is what makes her disgusting. She could have accomplished the same thing by writing a letter to the President, but she had to be play the "Drama Queen" so she'd make the 5 o'clock news.
#4
Why doesn't she get mad at the evil fucks who planted the bomb that killed her son?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/16/2004 19:14 Comments ||
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#5
Right on folks. Doubt anyone twisted his arm just like no one twisted mine, we are all volunteers and take what comes with it. To say other wise is to be disingenuous. If I ever get kia'd my mom better never pull some dumb shit like this. This guy was a grown man, honor his memory by not making a spectacle of yourself Ms. Niederer.
CBS EXECS CONCERN OVER VIEWERSHIP PLUNGE; RATHER RATINGS FADE IN MAJOR MARKETS
CBS executives on both coasts have become concerned in recent days that Dan Rather's EVENING NEWS broadcast has plunged in the ratings since the anchor presented questionable documents about Bush's National Guard service.
NIELSEN numbers released this week show Rather fading and trailing his rivals in every Top 10 city, other than San Francisco, with audience margins in some cities running more than 6 to 1 against CBS!
Executives fear many voters inclined to vote for Bush are now switching off Rather.
"The audience appears to becoming polarized," a top CBS source said from LOS ANGELES on Thursday. "Rightly or wrongly, we're being perceived as 'anti-Bush,' which I do not think is fair to Dan, who is a fine journalist... of course we do not like to see the ratings coming back the way they are this week."
In Philadelphia, the nation's #4 market, Rather pulled a 2.6 rating/5 share on Tuesday night against ABC's 13.3 rating/23 share and NBC's 4.0/7.
In Chicago, Rather hit a 2.3/5 to ABC's 9.2/20.
CBS trailed ABC by more than 2 to 1 in Los Angeles.
And in the nation's top market, New York, Rather finished not only behind NBC NIGHTLY NEWS and ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT -- but also pulled less audience than reruns of the SIMPSONS, WILL & GRACE and KING OF QUEENS.
Rather finished dead last in New York during the 6:30 pm timeslot among all broadcast channels tracked by NIELSEN on Tuesday.
And in the nationâs top market, New York, Rather finished not only behind NBC NIGHTLY NEWS and ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT -- but also pulled less audience than reruns of the SIMPSONS...
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 12:43 Comments ||
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#8
Not to worry, Dan will keep forging on.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
09/16/2004 13:19 Comments ||
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#9
Gotta know when to holdem, Dan
and know when to fold them...
Viacom board of directors members will put a stop to this madness when the ratings numbers gets put through accounting.
A "creative" network exec would find a way of getting Dan into tonights first episode of Survivor and have him be the first voted off the island in a classic plot twist... The ratings would be through the roof I tell ya!
#10
(CBS)Executives fear many voters inclined to vote for Bush are now switching off Rather.
AH yes, voters in those right wing political bastions -- Chicago, New York and Los Angeles-- are switching to anyone but Rather.
#11
Executives fear many voters inclined to vote for Bush are now switching off Rather.
While my only CBS fare is Letterman, I now make doubly sure to avoid ol' Danny Rather(Not). I'm almost inclined to delete the local CBS station from my TV's active channel list...
#12
I'm with Mrs. D. here. I've watched 60 Mins twice recently for the first time in years just to see the old news weasel squirm.
As someone old enough to have actually used typewriters, both manual and electric and to remember back when CBS was a brand name in news, I can't believe that
a) they fell for this lame forgery in the first place and
b) they haven't bailed out on the story yet.
One thing modern spinmeisters teach is that you have to get out ahead of the story. Yes, we were fooled, internal investigations underway, we'll do better next time, blah, blah, blah. The only reason I can see for hanging on to their position is that the consequences of revealing sources and motives would far, far outweigh the temporary egg-on-the-face of a retraction.
#14
Jim K: #4 "which I do not think is fair to Dan, who is a fine journalist..." Wow, this is a news flash to me.
"Yeah, and we have the documents to prove he's a fine journalist hot off the press!"
Posted by: BA ||
09/16/2004 15:46 Comments ||
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#15
Dan Rather, who is going with the flow in his watertight canoe while lecturing us ill informed and ignorant peasants on the shore, has a problem. He is about to head over a big assed waterfall with big assed rocks at the bottom. We're grounded and he is not.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 15:55 Comments ||
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#16
What they should have done:
The Sixty Minutes II story on the Killian memos recently provided to CBS News failed to meet the reporting standards that have made CBS the world's leader in news reporting over the last fifty years. The producer, reporter and others involved with the development of the story have been reprimanded. CBS News continues to pursue with vigor the facts of the story and will report on those facts when our reportage and research meets our established standards.
James Risen NYT Thursday, September 16th, 2004
WASHINGTON Three years after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and the Pentagon, the CIA has fewer experienced case officers assigned to its headquarters unit dealing with Osama bin Laden than it did at the time of the attacks, despite repeated pleas from the unit's leaders for reinforcements, a senior CIA officer with extensive counterterrorism experience has told Congress.
The bin Laden unit is stretched so thin that it relies on inexperienced officers rotated in and out every 60 to 90 days, and they leave before they know enough to do meaningful work, according to a letter the CIA officer has written to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. "There has been no systematic effort to groom Al Qaeda expertise" among CIA officers since Sept. 11, 2001, according to the letter, written by Michael Scheuer, the former chief of the agency's bin Laden unit and the author of a best-selling book that criticizes the Bush administration's handling of the war on terror.
Excerpts from Scheuer's letter were read publicly by Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, on Tuesday at a Senate hearing on the confirmation of Porter Goss as director of central intelligence. Congressional officials provided a copy of the letter to The New York Times. A senior intelligence official who asked not to be identified, strenuously disputed Scheuer's criticism about the resources assigned to fight Al Qaeda. "The assertions are off the mark," the official said. "There are far more DO officers working against the Al Qaeda target, both at CIA headquarters and overseas, than there were before Sept. 11," the official said, using an abbreviation for the Directorate of Operations, the CIA's clandestine arm.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/16/2004 2:13:19 AM ||
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#1
Scheuer claims to know a lot about the current status of a CIA department that he left in 1999. And he's eager to blab. This isn't a whistle-blower -- this is a loose cannon. Investigation warranted.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/16/2004 9:05 Comments ||
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#2
Have they asked Move-on for a staffing solution of for a grant. It works for Kerry.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/16/2004 16:48 Comments ||
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#3
It was smarmy of Feinstein to read this at the hearing of Porter Goss, but I do care whether it is true or not. If it is, WTF? WHY?
The Arab League condemned terrorism in Iraq on Tuesday and called on member states to restore full diplomatic relations with the interim government in Baghdad and do all they can to support it, after warning that the "gates of hell" had been opened there. This came in a statement issued at the end of a meeting of Arab foreign ministers in the Egyptian capital dominated by Palestinian-Israeli conflict, Sudan and the violence in Iraq. "It is natural to resist occupation, but this does not mean cutting off heads," Secretary General Amr Moussa told reporters at a news conference with the Mauritanian foreign minister and current chairman of the ministerial council, Mohammed Fal Bilal.
Beslan's actually sinking it, huh?
"There has to be a differentiation between clear acts of terrorism and resistance to occupation," Mussa added, referring to justifications Iraqi militants use to perpetrate violence. Similar sentiments were echoed in the statement, which argued that "the principles of authentic Islamic religion based on equality, mercy and tolerance forbid and incriminate any harmful actions against the innocent." It "condemned all acts of terrorism in Iraq that target civilians, security personnel, police, humanitarian and religious institutions and abductions that are being carried out by terrorist organisations."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:35:22 PM ||
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âIt is natural to resist occupation, but this does not mean cutting off headsâ
Britain on Thursday rejected a claim by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan that the U.S.-led Iraq war was "illegal" because Washington and its coalition allies never got Security Council backing for the invasion. Prime Minister Tony Blair's official spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity, reminded reporters that Britain's attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, had found before the war that Britain was acting legally, citing three U.N. resolutions justified the use of force against Iraq.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 10:01:54 AM ||
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#1
I declare Kofi Annan illegal! I issue this fatwa that he should get stoned, fall down and bump his head.
Allan be Praised.
Posted by: Trolling for Allan ||
09/16/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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#2
But Lord Goldsmith, Kofi won't know what to do with facts!
#3
No, Now that the gas has gone out of the TANG issue, the LLLs are reving up their successor to Rather. Just about as much credibility. If he keeps this up, NY and NJ should be strong Bush states.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 7:55 Comments ||
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#7
To paraphrase Andrew Jackson, Kofi Annan's made his decision; let's see him enforce it.
Posted by: Dar ||
09/16/2004 9:43 Comments ||
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#8
I think in the end everybody's concluded it's best to work together with our allies and through the UN," he said. And you think an accusation of illegality against the US fosters a desire on our part to "work together with our allies and through the UN..."? Does sitting on your a** letting a million people die under Saddam fulfill the UN charter?
#10
Kofi Annan, don't you have some license plates to make?
Booris, ,,|,,
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
09/16/2004 11:07 Comments ||
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#11
Kofi just wants to be "king of the world." He likes the prestige and doesn't like it that the UN is losing power. By making friends with the ex-"president" of Iraq, etc., he hopes to secure his "dynasty."
Despot-leanings all dressed up in Western business attire.
I say: do away with the UN. It's nothing but a joke and a "safe house" for terrorist-lovers.
#12
The UN is a joke indeed, but the sad kills the funny.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
09/16/2004 11:22 Comments ||
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#13
Morally bankrupt UN officials, why do they hate us?
This goes beyond the pale. As Annan dithers over the slaughter in Darfur, this maggot nonetheless can make time to further interfere with freeing Iraq from a similarly constant death toll. Some 40,000 Iraqis a year died at Saddam's hands and Kofi wants to protest that being stopped.
This is just more proof that the UN serves as a lapdog for those who seek to perpetrate terrorism, genocide, ethnic cleansing and the very worst sort of crimes against humanity. Sudan on the human rights panel, Egypt clamoring for a seat on the security council, the utter inability to unequivocally condemn terrorism. All of this would be a farce if these overpaid and underworked slimeballs didn't take themselves so seriously.
#23
Put it in perspective - Annan is a failed politician from a failed state, Ghana. What else can you expect from him? I hope we hear more of this kind of rhetoric from him. The American public needs to understand that the UN is not our friend. Annan's rhetorical incompetence can bring about this understanding and perhaps persuade the Senate to get us the heck out of this international boondoggle.
#24
Annan is right -- IF (and that is a big "if") the UN is some overarching world government to whom the U.S. should have appealed for redress of wrongs.
BUT, that is not the case.
The U.N. governs nothing, has no authority over U.S. affairs, and has proven itself totally ineffective, corrupt, and useful in handling the few tasks given to it. Since the U.N. is not a sovereign to whom the U.S. could turn for redress of wrongs, IT WAS UP TO THE U.S. TO TAKE MATTERS INTO OUR OWN HANDS AND FIND OUR OWN WAYS TO REDRESS THE WRONGS WE SUFFERED. God may judge, the world cannot. That's international law.
#26
The "Kofi" is going berserk
Lets get Egypt to the security council
Lets humor Chiraq and Schroeder
Lets all commit merry suicide
Lets all help him build the New Auschvitz
Heil Kofi !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
09/16/2004 15:20 Comments ||
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U.S. Soldiers dont deliberately target and murder civilians.
U.S. Soldiers dont rape all the women and little girls. Often on the same day they murder their husbands, fathers, brothers, and families (like the profit Muhammad did).
Now if we did all that (like the Islamics do) it would be a perfectly legal war according to Kofi.... (if we were all muslim that is....).
#30
"The U.N. governs nothing, has no authority over U.S. affairs, and has proven itself totally ineffective, corrupt, and [useless] in handling the few tasks given to it."
Also, the notion that only U.N. approval can give "legitimacy" to U.S. anti-terrorist actions is bullshit: we give the U.N. legitimacy, not vice versa. Without us, the U.N. is nothing.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I have fond hopes that once this election is over the U.N. will be told to go fuck itself, permanently.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/16/2004 16:56 Comments ||
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#31
Kofi also mentioned,"...this has played poorly for my retirement planning as well".
#33
...Actually, I think that was Kofi's way of letting Kerry know that if he gets elected and all else fails, he can use the 'illegal war' excuse to bail...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/16/2004 20:50 Comments ||
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#34
Isn't it long past time to tell Kofi that he and his pals should pack up and get the hell out of the US.
Posted by: A Jackson ||
09/16/2004 20:53 Comments ||
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#35
JM, Kofi has been "excusing" the genocide in Iraq so far, but now it's going a little overboard.
The Jemaah Islamiyah terror network maintains underground, cross-border links in the Philippines even though local Muslim separatists had declared they will no longer shelter them, President Gloria Arroyo's spokesman said Tuesday. "The (JI) threat lurks in the deep underground and there are clandestine connections across our borders but we are closely watching the situation in partnership with vigilant communities and allies in the region," spokesman Ignacio Bunye said in a statement without giving details.
Bunye was referring to past warnings of JI members being sheltered in some camps of the Muslim separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), now negotiating peace with Manila. But he declared the JI terror group would "find no hospitable nooks anywhere in the Philippines." The comments came after the MILF said it was inviting members of a Malaysian-led ceasefire monitoring mission to visit their camps in the southern island of Mindanao to check the alleged presence of JI militants. This will also live up to the MILF's commitment as part of the peace process with the government to help Manila flush out armed extremists operating in areas it controls in Mindanao.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:21:15 AM ||
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The U.S. government and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) have questions about a military site in Iran with suspected ties to the country's nuclear program, ABC News has learned.
Iran's Parchin complex — covering approximately 15 square miles and located about 19 miles southeast of Tehran — is known as a center for the production of conventional ammunition and explosives. A State Department official has confirmed the United States suspects nuclear activity at some of its facilities. The suspicions focus on possible testing of high explosives.
"Parchin is the center of Iran's munitions industry and home to Iran's oldest ammunitions factory, founded before World War II," said John Pike, directory of GlobalSecurity.org, an organization that seeks to reduce reliance on nuclear weapons. It would be the logical place for Iran to conduct weaponization work on an atomic bomb and the logical place for us to look for such work."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:30:11 AM ||
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When this site is bombed, I hope the air raid shelters are specifically targeted. I want the entire scientific staff and support personnel turned into hamburger. Since it is impossible to discourage the mullahs, perhaps making mincemeat an example out of their minions will be of help.
A senior Iranian envoy suggested Wednesday that Tehran's partial freeze on uranium enrichment might come to an end, despite U.S. and European pressure to renounce the process and end fears that his country wants to make nuclear arms. Both Washington and the European Union want a commitment from Iran to stop enrichment, and their delegations to a board of governors meeting of the UN nuclear watchdog agency have been working on a resolution that would demand Tehran agree to such a freeze.
Iran is not prohibited from enrichment under its obligations to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty but it has faced mounting international pressure to suspend the technology - which can be used both to make nuclear arms or generate electricity - as a gesture to dispel suspicions it is interested in making weapons as claimed by Washington.
Iran is the focus of a key meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency, with the United States seeking European support to have Tehran taken before the UN Security Council if it defies the demand for an enrichment freeze and other conditions meant to dispel suspicions about Iran's nuclear agenda. A U.S.-European rift, which surfaced earlier in the meeting on the wording of the draft resolution, led Wednesday to an adjournment of the board meeting until Friday to allow back-room negotiations and consultations with capitals. Still, copies of both the U.S. and European drafts showed both sides favoring some kind of deadline for Iran to commit to a new freeze on enrichment - and at least an implicit threat of referral to the Security Council if Tehran remained defiant.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:27:57 AM ||
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"Mousavian suggested Iran was not about to cave in to threats of Security Council action."
Meaning that they won't yield to Security Council decisions either. The U.N. is worthless. Start painting "To Mousavian from The Great Satan" on the bomb casings.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/16/2004 8:20 Comments ||
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#2
A senior Iranian envoy suggested Wednesday that Tehranâs partial freeze on uranium enrichment might come to an end, despite U.S. and European pressure to renounce the process and end fears that his country wants to make nuclear arms.
Oh, really? Being as how all the details of their programs haven't yet been fully fleshed out (as if they'd ever be fleshed out anytime soon), was there really a "freeze" at all?
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/16/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#4
This reminds me more and more of the procrastination and bravery games that Saadam did with the UN, except that the Mullahs are smarter than Saddam.
Nonetheless, I think they are now reaaly playing with fire and may get their fingers burned.
Hell, they'd be lucky to have any fingers left when the gloves finally come off !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
09/16/2004 16:04 Comments ||
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U.S. officials have told CNN there is "no evidence" any nuclear work has been done at an Iranian military complex near Tehran, although high explosives testing has been done there for many years. The comments were made in response to report by ABC News in the U.S. Wednesday evening that said Iran "may be taking steps toward developing a nuclear device" at the site, known as Parchin.
An official at the International Atomic Energy Agency also told CNN that while the Parchin complex was watched "with interest," he was unaware of intelligence suggesting nuclear work has been done there. The sprawling military complex is about 18 miles (29 kilometers) southeast of Tehran and is used to test ammunition, rockets and high explosives.
In a statement, David Albright and Corey Hinderstein of the Institute for Science and International Security said Parchin "is a logical candidate for a nuclear weapons-related site" but called the evidence that nuclear work has been conducted there "ambiguous." The two nuclear weapons experts called on Iran to allow inspectors from the IAEA to visit the site to "alleviate those suspicions."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:25:52 AM ||
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CNN SAYS: "UNAWARE" AND "AMBIGUOUS" = "NO EVIDENCE"
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials have told CNN there is "no evidence" any nuclear work has been done at an Iranian military complex near Tehran, although high explosives testing has been done there for many years.
Typical shoddy reporting. The quotes are only around "no evidence" so we haven't a clue what the "us officials" really said.
Worse, assuming the "US officials" are the ones he's quoting below, they don't even come close to saying that there is "no evidence". I guess that's why he put only the words "no evidence" in quotes. Gives the impression that "US officials" said that, when in fact, that's not what they said at all.
The comments were made in response to report by ABC News in the U.S. Wednesday evening that said Iran "may be taking steps toward developing a nuclear device" at the site, known as Parchin.
What comments? "the comments" re: "no evidence" from the shoddy "quote" above. This poorly written paragraph's purpose seems to be to hide the fact that this is not an official response by us officials, but mangled quotes the reporter from CNN dug up to debunk the ABC report.
An official at the International Atomic Energy Agency also told CNN that while the Parchin complex was watched "with interest," he was unaware of intelligence suggesting nuclear work has been done there.
Apparently, CNN found a guy from IAEA's accounting dept, who knows they watch it "with interest", but he doesn't have a clearance, so he is unaware of what intelligence exists.
In a statement, David Albright and Corey Hinderstein of the Institute for Science and International Security said Parchin "is a logical candidate for a nuclear weapons-related site" but called the evidence that nuclear work has been conducted there "ambiguous."
Heh, another Dowdism, which doesn't even come CLOSE to supporting the opening statement of this article. Truly pathetic. Is it intentional propaganda meant to mislead us - or just shoddy reporting?
New satellite images show Iran's Parchin military complex, southeast of Tehran, may be a site for research, testing and production of nuclear weapons, a nuclear expert said on Wednesday. David Albright of the Institute for Science and International Security, a think tank, released an analysis of the photos and told Reuters they show the site "has a potential that would warrant (U.N. inspectors) going there" to determine the exact nature of the operation. "Based on a review of overhead imagery of this site ... (it) is a logical candidate for a nuclear weapons-related site, particularly one involved in researching and developing high explosive components for an implosion-type nuclear weapon," he added in an analysis posted on the ISIS Web site.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/16/2004 12:30:16 AM ||
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I wonder if they'll have a nose camera on this one.
Seriously, a military option will have to happen before any political option is ready. This capability needs to be destroyed and I bet Vlad can dig up some very specific intel on the Iran project.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
09/16/2004 1:17 Comments ||
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#4
I bet Vlad can dig up some very specific intel on the Iran project.
If he wants any help from this side of the pond, he'd better.
#5
Iran figures GW will not do anything before the election, so for them, it's full speed ahead. The IAEA, to the Mad Mullahs, is nothing but a speed bump on the way to acquiring nukes.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 11:57 Comments ||
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#6
Alaska Paul,
Well, I guess they forgot there are no elections
in Israel.
We may beat you to it, After all we'd be the target for their first nuclear test.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
09/16/2004 16:09 Comments ||
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#7
EOZ---The MMs are so fixated on getting the BOMB that they plumb forgot about their frisky little neighbor. You're right, Israel cannot afford to be wrong. There is literally no margin for error.
OTOH, the MMs probably figure that an attack by Israel on the facilities in Iran would galvanize the Arab world and it would then be Dogpile on Israel. It's a harebrained idea, but the MMs have already put themselves out on a limb by threatening to annihilate Israel.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 16:55 Comments ||
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#8
BTW, Global security also has a writeup an some satellite pics of the Parchin military complex here.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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B Raman
Since the terrorist strikes of September 11, 2001, in the US, at least 10 taped messages attributed to Osama bin Laden have been telecast by the Al-Jazeera television channel. These were disseminated on November 3 and December 28, 2001; September 10, October 6, and November 12, 2002; February 11, September 10, and October 18, 2003 and January 4 and April 15 this year. Thus, there were two messages in 2001, three each in 2002 and 2003 and two so far this year. In 2002 as well as 2003, there were two messages disseminated on September 10, coinciding with the first and second anniversaries of the terrorist strikes in the US.
In the message attributed to him to mark the first anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist strikes, he said: 'When you talk about the New York and Washington raids, you talk about those men who changed the course of history and cleansed the chapters of the nation from the filth of the treasonous rulers.' In the message to mark the second anniversary, he said: 'The confusion caused to the enemy was sufficient to make people wake up from their slumber and rise for jihad for the sake of God. I had the honour of knowing these men. One is honoured by knowing such men.'
Keeping in view his practice of issuing a message on the eve of the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist strikes and remembering the terrorists who had participated in the attacks, one expected him to issue a message on September 10 this year too. I kept awake the whole of that night waiting for the expected message, but intriguingly, no such message has come till the time of the writing of this article.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/16/2004 2:03:07 AM ||
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#1
My crystal ball sez... he croaked.
The ball is cracked, though, so I can't guarantee it's proper function.
#2
He's dead alright. That self important and vain murderer would have shown that scraggly goat humping ass of his on TV by now if he wasn't a stain on a cave wall.
Ayman al-Zawahiri runs the show both operationally and spiritually now.
A happy day when he becomes a stain as well.
#5
My personal theory is that after his adventures in Afghanistan, he rather worse for wear and not so photogenic. Definitely not ready for prime time.
And maybe not ready for talk radio either, if the rumors of sharpnel wound in the throat are true.
Don't you have to, ummm, engage in military operations (as opposed to targeting civilians with car bombs, splodeydopes and kidnappers) to get that title? Did Dan Rather write this?
By Hal Lindsey, WorldNetDaily.com "Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism!" These are not my words. They are the words of Abdulrahman al-Rashed, the general manager of a leading Arabic television network — Al-Arabia. In a rare and candid self-criticism, Al-Rashed admitted, "Muslims worldwide are the main perpetrators of terrorism. [This is] a humiliating and painful truth that must be acknowledged."
This was his response to the tragic carnage caused by some 35 Muslim terrorists. They seized a Russian school and held hundreds of women and children hostage while making demands for Russia to leave Chechnya and release all terrorists held prisoner. They held the terrified children in a sweltering gymnasium without food or water for three days. They wired the entire building with shrapnel infused explosives at the very beginning of the siege. The resulting carnage shocked the world. Images of terrified young survivors carried from the scene were aired on Arab TV stations. Pictures of dead and wounded children ran on front pages of Arab newspapers. Al-Rashed wrote in his daily column for the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper:
"Holy warriors" from the Middle East long have supported fellow Muslims fighting in Chechnya, and Russian officials said nine or 10 Arabs were among militants killed. Our terrorist sons are an end-product of our corrupted culture.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/16/2004 10:32:17 PM ||
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I'll be damned. Next time they'll tell us that computer users are the main consumers of the internet.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/16/2004 0:23 Comments ||
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In other shocking news, it has been determined that water is wet.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/16/2004 0:29 Comments ||
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And in other news, bears have been found to s**t in the woods, except for polar bears, who don't put their rump on no stump.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 1:11 Comments ||
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The free world needs to unite and attack the terrorists with all force at hand. Otherwise, we are headed for global catastrophe.
There is no "otherwise" about this. "[W]e are headed for a global catastrophe." Those of us who value life must now decide if the catastrophe will be ours or belong to those who perpetrate, finance, shelter and remain silent when confronted with the evil that is terrorism.
I will not allow the wolf to slink unnoticed past my door. If all Islam must perish in this cataclysmic catastrophe of their own making, so be it. Free people must ensure that the horrors of mindless violence so favored by these murderers are visited upon them instead. There is no acceptable alternative.
Works for me Zenster, but I still think it's going to take more 9/11 level tragedies for the veneer of civilisation that shields Islam to be peeled (ripped?) away.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/16/2004 3:12 Comments ||
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This is a bit like Rathergate: the story isn't the story at all, the real story is the source. Granted it's one small, faltering, and tardy step but it is nonetheless one step in the right direction. Abdulrahman al-Rashed is to be congratulated for taking this stand.
#7
AzCat, 3 years, and I can count voices similar to this one on fingers of my hands. As I am not a god (despite my nick), I am not in a position to forgive because of 19 righteous. I am not immortal, nor are mine. If the count does not jump by at least 5 orders of magnitude fast, these 19 voice would count for nothing.
#8
Despite the "kill 'em all, regardless" mentality of some posters, it is significant that there are muslim voices in authority (in the muslim context, that is) speaking for the average-joe nominal muslim who thinks what happened in Beslan and elsewhere is shit. It would be a shame to kill the ones who think it's shit. It would be another fucking massacre of innocents. (Afterall, they didn't do it, they don't like it, and they are calling the bad guys out.)
Anyway, sure hope Abdul and the top cleric in Egypt have bodyguards. And I'm sure glad President Bush is committed to eliminating terrorists and those who perpetrate, finance, and shelter terrrorists.
#10
At the current rate of terrorism, Death by terror will soon become the leading cause of death in the world. Where is the UN and the World Health organization. Is anyone keeping stats on death by terror. By the way genocide is just another form of terrorism.
A Taliban spokesman said Thursday all 18 candidates in Afghanistan's presidential elections were "targets", and claimed responsibility after a rocket landed near a school to be visited by President Hamid Karzai.
"Dat's right. Yer gonna go what we tells yez to do or yer gonna do nuttin' at all!"
"All presidential candidates are our top targets now because they are running for the polls of a US-made election - an election which will create a government in the interest of the Americans," Taliban spokesman Abdul Latif Hakimi told AFP.
"We'll tell yez what yez want, dammit!"
Meanwhile, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's main rivals in an Oct. 9 presidential election called on Thursday for the vote to be delayed at least a month, saying security worries meant they were unable to campaign properly.
How about "no"?
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 9:34:46 PM ||
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Two-thirds of South Asians are living in poverty and only a redistribution of the benefits of economic growth will lift them out of the rut, an Asian Development Bank (ADB) official said on Thursday.
Ummm... Isn't that how they got in the rut?
"Two-thirds of the people in Bangladesh, India, Nepal and Pakistan live below the poverty line of $ 2 per day," said ADB Vice President Geert van der Linden.
Bangla is a basket case country, ripped apart by sectarianism and oozing corruption. IT'S THE MOST CORRUPT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, more corrupt than Nigeria, fergawdsake! Pakland is priest-riddled, from corner to corner, chock full of Pashtuns wallowing in equal measures of ignorance and arrogance, the whole of it periodically torn apart by sectarian shootouts and explosions. Nepal started out dirt poor, was overrun by screaming Maoists, and things have gone downhill from there. And India used to be dirt poor, dumped the wealth redistribution approach, and started getting prosperous. Now that the Congress party's back in power we can probably start saving our leftovers to ship off to the starving children because all the wealth is gonna be redistributed.
"It is clear the struggle against poverty in Asia will be protracted. Policy makers must focus on generating high rates of sustainable growth and also ensure the benefits of that growth are evenly spread in society," he said.
With the possible exception of India, policy makers should concentrate on rounding up their local nutbags and either killing them or incarcerating them for extended periods, like up to 200 years. Then they might see high rates of "sustainable" growth.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 9:11:24 PM ||
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They spend way too much on mindless conflicts and too little on the people. It is something no ammount of aid will solve as it will get funelled into the Military.
With their democratic governments, respect for women and minorities - including religious minorities - and capitalist, transparent business dealings, I would have thought they'd be much wealthier, with a far more even distribution of wealth among their free, well-educated populace.
Oh, wait....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/16/2004 21:33 Comments ||
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President Pervez Musharraf on Friday called upon the West, particularly the United States, to help resolve political disputes and alleviate the sense of deprivation in Muslim world.
Sounds like an admission they're incapable of taking care of themselves...
"The sense of helplessness and powerlessness leads individuals to extremism. Poverty and lack of development have become extremely explosive and unresolved disputes like Kashmir, Palestine and Chechnya, which have given rise to extremism," he said while addressing an inter-religious conference in Islamabad on Friday morning.
Didja ever consider that the sense of hopelessness and powerlessness might have something to do with the fact that roving bands of religious fascisti keep people in line by throwing acid in their faces or shooting them to death or cutting their heads off or blowing them up? And I'd call Kashmir, Paleostine and Chechnya manifestations of extremism, not sources of it...
The one-day conference was jointly organised by the Ministry of Religious Affairs and Forum for World Peace and Justice. He called upon all countries, specifically those in the developed world, to take measures to promote inter-faith and inter-religious harmony.
I hope he doesn't mean like they do it in Pakland? Those blasphemy laws aren't really helping, Perv...
Mr Musharraf said that the world is facing serious challenges like extremism and terrorism. These challenges have to be tackled through tolerance, he said.
I'd say they had to be tackled by aerial bombardment...
He said there are misperceptions in the West regarding Islam as a religion of extremism and militancy. There is also a misperception among Muslims that Islam is being targeted by the West. He said the world could be a better place if the strategy of enlightened moderation was adopted.
It takes two to tango. On 9-10-01 we were a nation at peace.
He said the strategy has two prongs, one has to be delivered by the Muslim world and the other by the West. He said Muslim countries have taken a step forward to fulfil their part of the strategy. "The strategy of enlightened moderation was adopted by the OIC," he said.
It's been working real well, too...
Now, Mr Musharraf said, it is the turn of the West, particularly the United States, to implement the other prong and help resolve political disputes and assist the Muslim countries economically.
Help the Muslim countries economically? Half of them are sitting on pools of oil that should keep them rich for the next hundred years, and still they somehow manage to remain ignorant and backward, with the princes tucking the dollars in their pockets and tossing crumbs to the common folk. And the ones that don't have pools of oil nine miles deep remain incapable of fostering economic development because what's not raked off by local officials is snatched for zakat...
Referring to terrorism in Pakistan, the president said those carrying out terrorist acts are just pawns and the masterminds behind these acts are mostly foreigners living in the country, he said.
Qazi's not a foreigner. Sami's not a foreigner. Fazl's not a foreigner. Hafiz Saeed's not a foreigner. Masood Azhar's not a foreigner...
Mr Musharraf again urged the foreign elements operating in the tribal areas to come forward and register. He said the government has never sent any Pakistani terror suspect to any foreign country. "Those in Guantanamo were arrested from Afghanistan and sent there. Pakistani terror suspects arrested in the country will be tried in the country's courts," he declared.
Except for Khalid Sheikh Mohammad...
He said the Pakistani people are moderate and only a tiny minority are extremists who want to dictate their views to the rest of the people.
They're the ones with the explosives, though...
"This is not acceptable," he said. The president said "sipah, jaish and lashkars" have no place in the country because these outfits cannot co-exist with Pakistan's armed forces.
Armed forces be damned. They can't coexist with anyone.
The president expressed appreciation for the role of deeni madaris in providing food, shelter and education to millions of poor students. He said they are rendering a remarkable service to humanity. He said only a few madaris are imparting militant training.
"Yasss... Yasss... It's only a few."
"How many?"
"Ummm... Most of them."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:48:45 PM ||
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Well Musharraf should better know that Paki & M.E. culture only understands one language "power". The politest word is a warning shot and the harshest is an F-16 bombing your ass. SO he has gotta step up the presure. Blow up the madresas with terrorists and the others may start heeding to his call. Right now it is not enough use of force that is causing him problems. Man just Napalm the fuckers and they will start listening. And if he is scared to try the figures like Qazi, Fazl and Masood Azhar or Hafiz, they can very conveniently have fatal accidents.(it is all possible, the question is does he have the resolve to do it)
#4
Shamzai's still dead, isn't he? Azam Tariq's still dead... It can be done, but slowly, gently, one at at time...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 21:25 Comments ||
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A good counter-proposal would be for the US to propose ALL of the changes that must be made to turn each nation, specifically, in the Arab world to the path of economic success.
Start by printing a billion copies of a large pamphlet, entitled "What is democracy?", that has a long checklist of every truly democratic nation on the planet, and the essential elements of *its* democracy, compared to how *economically* successful that country is. It will be very obvious that laissez-faire democracy, with minimal government interference, is the most profitable.
Then list all the OTHER stuff, the social innovations and advancements, that have made the 1st world nations 1st world. Such as secular public education, free speech, equal rights for *everybody*, religious freedom, and a civilian controlled military.
I'm sure there is lots of other useful information we can put in that pamphlet, that would help their peoples get ahead--once they accept the notion that it will be their people who advance, and not their government that will advance their people.
alleviate the sense of deprivation in Muslim world. The sense of helplessness and powerlessness
Well, then quit depriving the people, Perv & buddies. We ain't the ones doing it.
We can help you out of this "conflict," Perv baby, but I don't think you'd like it very much.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/16/2004 21:39 Comments ||
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As somebody mentioned in another thread yesterday, this is the equivalent of returning to England before the time of Chaucer and installing cable TV.
My opinion is the next 100 years are going to suck, especially for them, until these folks are dragged into the 22nd century or killed in mass wars or epidemics.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/16/2004 21:41 Comments ||
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#8
Now if they would only cut off the *right* 1,000 heads all of these problems would go away.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:40:14 PM ||
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Libya will now be only âpart of our routine verification, which is good so at least Libya is off our agenda,â International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohammed El Baradei told reporters at a meeting of the IAEAâs board of governors.
Well, that's good news, at least. I can only hope that Libya continues this voluntary inspection process as a "good cop" example to the rest of the nuclear wannabes.
Israel's Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom has accused Iran and Syria of systematic support to the Palestinian resistance factions and the Hezbollah party of Lebanon, saying that such backing is in the form of arms supplies which are transported to these groups via Damascus. Addressing the accredited diplomatic corps members in Tel Aviv, he said: "It was unreasonable that the Syrian President Bashar Al Assad announced his readiness to resume peace talks with Israel on the one hand, while Damascus continued its support to the Palestinian terrorist organisations in order to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel." He also accused Teheran of backing the terrorist factions, saying that Iranian vessels continued unloading consignments of missiles and arms in Latakia and Damascus airport to terrorist organisations which work against Israel, such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:33:08 PM ||
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They're expected to be over two or three weeks after Doomsday, or when all the blacks are dead or run out of the country, whichever comes first...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:19:46 PM ||
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I would like to attend, but I will be in Kansas City on that day. Any other Rantburgers want to fill in? Doesn't seem like a high pressure conference, and I'm sure that dining will be top notch.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/16/2004 20:37 Comments ||
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I was born in KC and the Bar-B-Que is fantastic!
About 500 people have been killed during a month of escalating gang violence in Nigeria's oil-rich delta region, human rights group Amnesty International has said. Rival gangs involved in stealing an estimated 100,000 barrels of crude oil a day from pipelines and wellheads have stepped up attacks in the eastern Niger delta in the state of Rivers. "This level of violence represents a serious threat to the region," said George Ngwa, an Amnesty International press officer for African Affairs, on Thursday. Security forces have already begun 24-hour patrols in and around the state capital and oil hub Port Harcourt after a surge of fighting in August. The gangs, which sell the oil to buy weapons, are often backed by local political and ethnic leaders.
Keep an eye on this. It's a tendril of Islam's bloody border...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/16/2004 8:05:49 PM ||
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September 17, 2004 SOMETIME in the next year or two, Israel is going to have to make a decision. Will it accept that Iran has nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them against Israel? The smart money isn't betting on "accept."
Or will it do what it did to Iraq's developing nuclear capability in 1981 and bomb it out of existence? This sounds all rather apocalyptic. That is because it is - at least for Israel. Iran is developing a wide range of nuclear facilities and capabilities. It is doing so even though there can be few countries with less need for nuclear energy than oil-rich Iran. But, surely, Iran is developing these nuclear facilities under the purblind eagle eye of the International Atomic Energy Agency, the body charged with ensuring that such facilities are developed for killing Jews peaceful purposes only and not diverted to non-military use. True enough. Furthermore, the IAEA is charged with referring any concerns it may have of any possible diversion to military use to the UN Security Council for action.
Now this sounds all fine and dandy. But there are a few problems. The IAEA supervised Iraq's nuclear facilities and developments and swore they were for peaceful purposes only. Unfortunately for Iraq, its invasion of Kuwait in 1990 led to its military trouncing and to the imposition of UN weapons inspections. These weapons inspectors found that the American and Israeli assertions that Iraq was indeed developing nuclear capability were not accurate - they were far too optimistic. The Americans and Israelis had in fact underestimated - that's right, underestimated - how far Iraq had progressed down the path to nuclear weapons. Then there was Libya. When Libya in the past 18 months decided to give up its nuclear facilities, lo and behold, once again it turned out that Western intelligence agencies had severely underestimated how far Libya had progressed down the nuclear weapons path.
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#1
yep, but at least the Israelis will still be around to be condemned by the EU/UN/DNC/CAIR/et al
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/16/2004 14:31 Comments ||
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We are being pushed
We are being shoved
we are being lectured to by hypocrites and bigots
we are being verbally abused by the "Kofi Annan"
But mark my words
We will strike at the last moment
spurred by the Euro-indolence and by genuine fear for our existence.
And when we finally strike
everybody will be indignant
It is better being alive than being politically correct.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
09/16/2004 14:57 Comments ||
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EoZ-You do what you have to do, and those that do not understand are in for a BIG surprise. . .
#6
Fuck you 6494
Did we make a noise when we bombed
the Tammuz reactor ??.
Seems like you are an ideal candidate to be a live human shield at Bushehr when we finally eraze it from the face of the earth.
Give me your address so I can mail you a one way ticket to Tehran.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
09/16/2004 15:53 Comments ||
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EoZ - Don't dignify 6494 by cursing at him. He's a leftist appeasing toady. Ignore him.
As you 'Raqed 'em up in 1981, the new production site will have to be 'Ranthrough.
#14
A nuclear equipped Iran supplied with Nkor missiles equals an ICBM capacity that at a minimum can threaten Europe and might be able to threat the Eastern seaboard. These people are not Rational commies who enjoy staying alive. These are Islamicfascists dedicated to their perverse death cult.
We will strike because we must. Yes, there will be severe reprecussions, but as was said above it is better be alive than PC.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
09/16/2004 18:21 Comments ||
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Or will it do what it did to Iraqâs developing nuclear capability in 1981 and bomb it out of existence?
#16
I think we will have to do it
just because nobody else will
How so much of the world either pretends that the Holocaust has faded from memory, or instead applauds its aims goes beyond disgraceful.
NEVER AGAIN, NEVER FORGET!
Happy (Hebrew) New Year to you and all Rantburgers
May you be inscribed with good fortune for the coming year as well, EoZ. Should Israel be forced to go it alone against Iran, I can only hope that your victory is overwhelming in all respects.
#19
Are the Israelis and ourselves the only ones left in the world with any testicular fortitude? If Kerry gets elected and procedes to pussify our foreign policy, at least I can seek solace in knowing that Israel will continue to stand up and kick the bad guys in the kahonas. Power to Zion!
#20
Europe (France and Germany) can't even field a functional army. So they will bend over and spread their cheeks for Iran. There is no one but the US and Israel who can or will do it.
Posted by: Trolling for Allan ||
09/16/2004 23:41 Comments ||
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#21
As usually, Israel will start making noise and naive Americans will react.
#24
What's everyone getting so worked up about? Do you think that we'll let this Zionist snake pit spew one-way propaganda? We know that Israel's pulling Dubya's strings, but not for long.
#25
What's everyone getting so worked up about? Do you think that we'll let this Zionist snake pit spew one-way propaganda? We know that Israel's pulling Dubya's strings, but not for long.
Claiming Muhammad's teachings are the root of terrorism, a website founded by an ex-Muslim attempts to dispel the oft-quoted statement "Islam is a religion of peace." Headed by Ali Sina, FaithFreedom.org presents articles and commentaries that debunk much of the Quran and charge that Islam's founder, Muhammad, was a rapist, pedophile, mass murderer and an "evil man." On the site, which features, the description "Islam and Quran denounced by ex-Muslims as the root of terrorism," Sina promises that if anyone can prove him wrong in his assertions about Muhammad and Islam, he will take the site off the Internet.
After presenting a list of charges against Muhammad, Sina writes, "Muslims are triumphalists and claim victory even when they are clearly defeated. A Muslim can never accept defeat. A Muslim's typical response to this site is: 'My faith in Islam grew after I read your site.' How can one's faith grow after reading the proof that the man whom he thought to be a prophet was guilty of all the above charges? Has anyone disproved any of those charges?"
Continues Sina: "I have debated with Muslims who claimed victory because according to them I have not proven that Muhammad's sexual relationship at the age of 53 with the 8 years 9 months old Aisha constitute pedophilia. I consider this a self-evident fact that needs no proof. I do not think there is any need to prove that day is bright and night is dark to a seeing person. And to [the] blind proofs are of no avail."
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Posted by: tipper ||
09/16/2004 11:07:04 AM ||
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#1
Been visiting Sina's site for several months now. Although it doesn't present an alternative, it really is awesome. Especially great is his six or seven part trial of Mohammed. He just rips the Profit, may bees pee upon him, apart.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
09/16/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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Another good site is www.prophetofdoom.net which goes though the Qur'an and other 'holy books'.
#3
"Muslims are triumphalists and claim victory even when they are clearly defeated." True. Denial is a biggie in that religion.
I can't think of a more deserving subject for a 12-step program. It may be the ONLY thing the Chirac et al would be better at running in this war on terror.
#5
Ifidels! Don't you understand moral victories? Like a tie? Going for two and losing? Playing out of your league? Playing with the big boys? Showing some spunk? Good hustle?
Posted by: Little Mo Swimmin the Suez Canal ||
09/16/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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this is bound to be an unpoluar opinion around here but I gotta say it.
I think this Ali Sina is another guy that goes way too far. He starts out making sense but then he tends to go off the deep end which I think does his better arguments a great disservice.
I am no fan of The Profit, may bees pee upon him (I like your phrase, Doc! Funny!) But Ali Sina is really unfair to him and the cult he started. I think that mohammed was a lot of bad things and i think he was a ruthless and bad man who was a gifted manipulator of people but to say that he was without emotions and empathy etc, in other words, to say that he was a total human monster is actually not born out by all the evidence.
Ali Sina talks about the big lie and he's is on the right track by suggesting that the big lie goes over better if its mixed with something that most people think is good like patriotism or religion. But it goes over much better if the person who passes on the big lie is convinced of it himself and it helps more if that person is convinced that they are doing the right thing and if they have a reputation for some generosity and goodness.
One doesn't have to be a full on raging psychopath without human feeling to start a thing like islam. It actually helps if the leader of that movement is a mixture of good and bad in just about equal parts.
There are many stories detailing how mohammed settled disputes or helped people etc. I think that these stories are probably based somewhat on turth. He, like many successful leaders was able turn on the charm and the goodwill when it was called for. In many ways, he was normal in that respect. Other peasant generals in history were also known to be the same way.
If mohammed were a pure psychopath islam then would be much worse than it is and probably would not have survived. I disagree with Sina's rather condescending assertion that most people are gullible and will do anything for a charismatic leader. I think that most people have a limit that a true psychopath would cross. True psychopaths are unable to succeed for more than a brief period of time before everything blows up on them. Their movements don't last because they cause more misery than even the most gullible people can stand in a very short period of time.
the secret to a cult like islam is that has enough good things about it to make it seem like it is worth all the suffering and horrible consequences that result from it. This is true for a lot of things, including other religions or all religions if you prefer. islam happens to differ from these only in the ratio of good to bad. islam is more bad than good and its believers put up with more misery than most for what little good they get out of it. Cultural conditioning and indoctrination is probably largely responsible for why they put up with more than the normal human misery. But there misery is still within the limits of what we humans can endure for what we think is a cause.
#7
I need to quickly add that I am not saying that mohammed was psychologically normal. He clearly wasn't. I don't disagree with Sina's premise that he was mentally ill, I just disagree on the degree of the mental illness.
#8
I disagree with Sina's rather condescending assertion that most people are gullible and will do anything for a charismatic leader. Two words: Hitler, Stalin. (Although they only lasted decades, not centuries.) It is within human capacity to blindly follow.
I agree with Sina to the extent that having a rigid, preloaded philosophy can make people blind to horrific acts going on around them.
I agree with you, Peggy, that there must have been something good in the faith at one time that made others adhere to it as a benevolent religion.
#9
Sina goes too far, you can not believe in God and still recognize religions who have been a postive factor in the evolution of their societies while Islam' role has been completely negative.
Greek religion was largely absent of fear and there was no mandatory enforcement of religious duties. This was a strong factor for Greece's political freedom (even the citizen of the most totalitarian Grek monarcy had a LOT more of it than your average Persian or Egyptian) and creativity in arts and sciences.
While Christianism has not been perfect in the area of religious freedom it ever allowed a freedom of didcussion and conscience unconceivable in Islam where Koran is told to have been written before world was created and not a sinfle letter being changed after that.
Finally let's take a look at Judaism versus Islam. Judaism sets rules of conduct whoi weere a factor in the success of Jews over their rivals (like the emphasis on quaranteening any cattle of person with a wound who looked funny and of destroying what he had touched) but also positive rules for making people and the Jewish society better: "Thou shall not kill", "Thou hall not lift false testimony" are part of the Ten Commandments ie the pillars of Jewish and Christian religions.
By contrast the so called five pillars of Islam don't deal at all with improving people or the society: you must decalre you follow Muhhamad's teachings, you must fast for Ramadan, you must turn five times day towards Mecca, you have to make pilgrimage so your heard earned bucks can go into the pockets of Meccans. The only half-moral requirement is, if you are rich enough, contribute 3% of your revenue to charities (note that the Gospel doesn't give an upper limit). That is all. You can kill, rape, steal you are still part of the Umma provided you observe those five requirements. You can be the better and most virtuous man in world, your chances of salvation are close to nil if you don't make the pilgrimage.
So, I disagree about the: all religions are equally bad.
#11
I forgot that both in Greece/Rome and in Judaism/Chritianism the idea of separation between Church and state has ever been present to a degree unknown in Islam. The king was never the direct representative of God with the sole mission of enforcing its will on earth. Even in medieval Christianity or in times of the Monarchs by divine right they never had the same spiritual power and submission to religion than the Caliphs and Sultans. No Christian king, no Jewish king has been named 'the shadow of God on earth".
You have opened my eyes to something. And I thought I had all the angles. pssshaw!
Now that you mention it, I have to say that you are right on about the five pillars doing nothing to make the person who does them any better.
Tp put it another way, they are entirely geared towards appeasement of the diety.
muslims might not sacrifice their children or feed little wooden statues milk and produce but the concept is entirely the same. Ie "Do this stuff so the god won't be angry with you and punish you."
I also have a problem with sina's atheism and his belief that all religions are bad things but I believe he has said before that Christianity is not so bad compared to islam and his problems with it are more philosophical than anything. As a Christian that kind of attitude frustrates me that he sees a lot of good in my faith and yet doesn't believe, but what can I do about it anyway?
Everything else you said is something that I can easily agree on. There is only one correction that I would make.
The Emperor of the Byzantines was called things like "equal to the Apostles" and "God's Regent on Earth" but I believe this was a legacy more of Roman practice than of Christian practice. The Roman influence being the more aggressive, it was retained for a long time in the west's notions of kingship. But you are right that Christians were among the leading figures on the cutting edge in the struggle to separate church from state. This might surprise some people, but the separation can be mutually beneficial when kings try to dictate what the church believes and how they should practice. Many Christians throughout the ages used the teachings of Jesus to argue that the state had no business in church affairs and the church had no business in state affairs.
I didn't mean to imply that people don't ever act like sheep. Its a strong tendency in humanity.
But by the time the Allies came for Hitler, there were no Germans willing to lay down their lives for him. He may have fooled them for a while but his destructive policies soon made them suffer to such a degree that they no longer supported him.
I am just not such a pessimist about the average person as Sina is. I think people tend to be a bit more sensible, if not always perfectly so, than he gives them credit for.
It is condescending to give little credit to the intelligence and common sense of the people. Someone who has that attitude is an elitist end of story. As I said some of his attitudes do his better arguments against islam a disservice.
#14
Hmmm...I think I will need to look further at what Sina has written. I admit that my responses pertain only to this post, but what you write, peggy, looks like it is a reponse to something else he has written? Or maybe I misunderstand?
In my life, I have found when something really bad happens to a person or around a person, he can be hypersensitive or have overreactions to anything related to it thereafter. I think it's reasonable to assume that Sina has seen some horrible things happen in the name of his (former)religion-the same things we see happening in the name of Islam today. Maybe his heart has been touched and his soul horrified.
I have met a number of Muslims in my line of work. Of those, I have met only one who I would consider a moderate (not just tolerant of but actually gracious to people of other religions), a person whose obeyance to her God's commandments is expressed through kindness, generosity, humility, integrity, honesty; a person who regards living on this earth to be a gift from God; she is not biding her time here, gleefully waiting for a glorious apocalypse. I find it disturbing that, of all the Muslims I've met, only one treated others as worthy as she of God's love. Out of this large number, only one fits this profile of moderation. Maybe that is what Sina experienced, as well, and that leads to the pessimism you speak of.
The JUI-Q has never been a significant movement, maybe knowing he would never get into government, he figured out a new way to make money. Maulana Ajmal Qadri, the head of a Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam faction who went missing a month ago, is in the United States providing American intelligence agencies with information about Al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan, according to sources close to him. "Maulana Ajmal contacted some religious leaders in Pakistan from the States and asked them where important Al Qaeda leaders were," the sources claimed.
They told him, of course...
The sources said he had made contact with American officials in Pakistan a while ago and one day went to the US without informing his family or friends. Questions about Mr Qadri's whereabouts came up about a month ago when he missed schedule religious programmes. His family and party colleagues did not know where he was. Daily Times called his office and home and was told he was in Islamabad, but questions about when he would come back were not answered.
Good move, whether he's saying anything or not...
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/16/2004 6:29:41 AM ||
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#1
I hope someone is keeping acid neutralizer on hand for the wives and children he left back home.
#2
this news is worst example of european propaganda,each and every islamic symbol is cause of elergy to european.If you have courage let him come on seen,may be this is like hundreds of mulims captured by america without any proof or he is handed over by government of pakistan.
#3
such many muslim scholars are killed in the name of terrorrit attacks by unknown killers inside pakistan who were having soft corner for taliban.Every body knows in pakistan the role of agencies in this killing.
A year and a half ago, Ari Askanda would have been risking death selling Western music and DVDs from his small shop on the main street of Biyara in Iraq's Kurdish zone. Now he even sells alcohol under the counter. This remote mountain region near the Iranian border was a stronghold of Ansar al-Islam, a militant group linked to al Qaeda and Abu Musab al Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born militant thought to be behind a wave of suicide attacks in Iraq. Under the hard-line Islamic regime they imposed on Biyara, women were banned from any social activity, young girls were forced to wear veils and wedding parties were outlawed. Even smoking cigarettes was forbidden. "Nobody had a life while those people were here but now everything has changed," said Askanda, 28, smiling as he pointed to posters of alluring female artists adorning his shop walls. "I sell whiskey and beer, although not openly because people here are still quite traditional — but we have been liberated."
Ansar was dispersed at the start of last year's U.S.-led invasion of Iraq as coalition and Kurdish forces attacked their positions with cruise missiles and ground troops. Residents fled when the attacks began and many suffered damage to their properties. Despite this, some believe it was a price worth paying. "My house was destroyed by the impact of the blasts. We've had no compensation, but to be honest we wish it had happened earlier," said Dilwaz Assad, the female head of a new women's cultural center in Biyara. Assad, 37, now teaches literacy courses to girls forced to leave school by the militants because classes were mixed. The center, funded by a German aid agency, also organizes beauty sessions, sewing classes and social evenings. "They stopped us going out, so now we're enjoying what we missed. We use any excuse to throw a party," Assad said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/16/2004 3:07:19 AM ||
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"In the years before those men arrived, young people used to come here and pray. Now nobody does," And that is why its so important to separate Church from State.
Religious life in the U.S. is more active than anywhere else in the First World. Because religion was freed from the burden of compulsion, those who are in the churches are there by their own, joyous choice. And that joy attracts others.
#1
Very nice, but I didn't realize Islamofacists left skid marks.
Posted by: Capt America ||
09/16/2004 1:57 Comments ||
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Very cool! - just what I need to get me up and rarin' to go on a Thursday morning when I had far too much to drink last night (Speckled Hen - oooo me head).
It was very weird seeing US planes cross-haired though...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/16/2004 3:01 Comments ||
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Speckled phlegm - oooooch. my sincere condolences. Great vid.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/16/2004 4:15 Comments ||
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#4
This should be a good recruiting video.
Posted by: Canaveral Dan ||
09/16/2004 6:48 Comments ||
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#5
Not enough booms.
Posted by: Charles ||
09/16/2004 7:46 Comments ||
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#6
.com kills another site. :) How long for the download, am I being impatient?
#10
The most revealing part was where they were filling up at the KC-10 filling station. Those Harriers have a loiter time about as long as this video.
Posted by: remote man ||
09/16/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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Anyone can give me an idea of what is said in the lyrics. My English is not good enough for understanding "sung English", specialy when it is uttered very fast. The music was nice IMHO.
Maybe, at the right time and in the right place. A very short poll I took among 21 yr olds who are pro-military resulted in a clear consensus that they dislike this sort of thing most of the time, however.
It may have resonated in April 2003. I'm not sure it's the right message right now.
Chechen terrorist techniques have undoubtedly borrowed not a few tricks from Russia's terrorist training schools.
By EHUD OLMERT
Mr. Olmert is the vice prime minister of Israel.
One might have imagined that we Israelis, after having endured more than four years of brutal terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians, would have become immune to the horrific tragedy that unfolded in Beslan. Indeed, the televised scenes of the tiny coffins and grieving families seem far too familiar, just as the boilerplate speeches of the politicians and standard condemnations by world bodies feels like the routine drill. Yet the fact that we still find ourselves distraught, and can so readily identify with the suffering of the Russian victims, shows that the world today is divided into two distinct camps -- the first which seeks to affirm life, the second hell bent on avowing vengeance, martyrdom and death regardless of its victims.
In 1974, as a newly elected Knesset member, I watched the terrorist assault on a school in Ma'alot as it played out along Israel's northern border. Palestinian gunmen, ironically from a PLO faction funded by the Russians, infiltrated a high school and took dozens of students hostage. Before the army could free the children, the terrorists managed to kill 26 of them. At the time, the idea that a ruthless terrorist could deliberately murder Israeli children seemed almost beyond even our belief. What sort of desperate animals, we demanded, seek to advance their political agendas by slaughtering children? Surely the international order would insist that all the culprits be hunted down and punished.
But the world voiced only silence, and business went on as usual. Israelis were forced to learn that our tragedies were always going to be personal affairs, and that there would be no united international response to terror. Indeed, the democratic states in Europe provided the first cracks in the front, insisting on maintaining relations with the PLO after Ma'alot while accepting that there were no real consequences when it comes to Arab terror.
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#1
One thing that happened after Ma'alot was that the schools became hard targets and they passed out weapons to teachers.
American could learn a thing or two from the Israeli model.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
09/16/2004 1:19 Comments ||
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Doug's correct...
Posted by: jawa ||
09/16/2004 9:11 Comments ||
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A joke retold after Colombine was that the killers would have only been able to get off maybe one or two shots, before their classmates gunned them down.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
