Mala suerte for Mutairi, coming home in the middle of a crackdown on hard boyz like that...
The Sixth Bench of the Criminal Court Wednesday held its first session to look into a State Security Case No. 3/2005 filed against Kuwaiti Nasser Najar Al-Mutairi, who was arrested by the US forces in Afghanistan and detained at the US camp in Guantanamo, Cuba, over three years ago. He was subsequently released in January 2005. During the session Mutairi denied all the charges against him and attorney Mubarak Al-Shimmari, who is defending Mutairi, requested the court to release his client on any guarantee. He told the court the United States authorities released the man because there no longer sensed danger from his release.
Mutairi returned to Kuwait aboard a private aircraft according to an agreement signed between the US and Kuwaiti governments. On arrival at the Kuwait International Airport he was whisked away by the State Security police to know why he went to Afghanistan and the circumstances which led to his arrest by the US forces during the war on Taleban government. Mutairi, who is still in the custody of the State Security police, is charged with joining an illegal terrorist organization and fighting the forces of a foreign country which could damage Kuwait's political status. He is also charged with joining the armed forces of a foreign country and carrying hostile actions against another country thus jeopardizing Kuwait's relations with a friendly nation. Mutairi is also charged training on arms and ammunition with the aim of carrying out illegal activities, in addition to agreeing with another person who was killed during military operations in Afghanistan to do hostile actions against a foreign country.
During initial interrogations, Mutairi admitted to meeting the second accused in the case whose charges were dropped after his death in a bookshop in Kuwait in October 2000. The second accused is said to have showed Al-Mutairi a book urging youth to fight a holy war in Afghanistan. He also showed him a plan how to get to Afghanistan where he fought alongside al-Qaeda terrorists and Taleban forces until he was injured and taken to a hospital. Later he was arrested by the US forces and taken to a US base in Guantanamo where he remained for three years.
This article starring:
NASER NAJAR AL MUTAIRI
al-Qaeda
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 9:54:16 PM ||
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#1
from the wire of Guantanamo to the wire cutters of the Kuwaiti SS police...Have a nice day!!
#2
The guard on the left in the picture is my youngest brother. 14 years in the Marines and the past 3 in the NG. He gets back in a couple of weeks.
Can't wait to see him.
#4
Cool, JM! I'll bet he'll have a few yarns to tell - if you pick up the tab on a couple of pitchers, heh! Let him know we appreciate his efforts and service.
#9
Thanks for the sentiment guys, I've emailed this thread to him.
Well Seafarious, my brother & I have been known to crawl out of some of NJ's finer establishments, even if we haven't been asked to leave. If you're up for it - email me.
The detention renewal judge Wednesday renewed the detention of 13 suspects, including a woman, who have been arrested in connection with the terrorist acts in Maidan Hawalli and Umm Al-Haiman. The woman was arrested for distributing pamphlets calling to support Osama bin Laden and release of all persons arrested in connection with the twin shoot-outs. All those detained denied the charges against them before they were remanded into custody for a further two weeks to gather information from them about the main suspects in the case. Earlier it had been reported the weapons which were found buried in a garden in Sabahiya belong to some of the suspects. The Public Prosecution has charged six men with hiding information on the absconding suspects, possessing unlicensed arms and ammunition and facilitating the escape of fugitives. Earlier, the Public Prosecution had released M. Al-Enezi, brother of Amer Al-Enezi, the main suspect in the case after interrogating him for two weeks following the Maidan Hawalli incident.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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Little-known Chechen cleric Abdul-Khalim Sadulayev will take over as interim rebel leader after Aslan Maskhadov's death earlier this week, rebel envoy Akhmed Zakayev said Thursday. Analysts said, however, that the announcement was probably an attempt by radical warlord Shamil Basayev to buy time as he figures out his next move.
The Federal Security Service announced Tuesday that Maskhadov had been killed that day in a bunker during an FSB sweep in Tolstoy-Yurt, a village near Grozny. Zakayev, who served as Maskhadov's representative and lives in Vanessa Regrave's basement exile in London, called on all rebels to line up behind Sadulayev, a Wahhabi born in Argun who heads the rebels' Supreme Shariah Court. "Until the holding of free elections, Abdul-Khalim Sadulayev will be leader of the military-political infrastructure of the Chechen Republic and the acting president," Zakayev said in a statement on the rebel web site Chechen Press. "Our responsibility, and the responsibility of all Chechen citizens is to unite around our new leader to be reliable advisers and allies in the fight to liberate our motherland from Russian occupation," he said.
Basayev backed Sadulayev's candidacy in a statement posted Wednesday on another rebel web site, Kavkaz Center. Andrei Malashenko, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center, said there was simply no one to replace Maskhadov and his political experience, and that Sadulayev's rise to power was a stop-gap measure aimed at giving Basayev time to think. "This move is essentially necessary for Basayev," Malashenko said. "It is a pause that will buy him time to figure out what he is going to do and how he is going to act. He is fully aware that he can hardly move from the battlefield to politics because no one will talk to him -- not America, not Europe, no one."
Malashenko said Sadulayev is a "colorless personality" who would not be around very long. "He may have some influence as a religious leader, but to think that he has any political clout or that anyone would line up to vote for him is simply delusional," he said.
Maskhadov's son Anzor, who lives in Baku, said Sadulayev was a worthy successor to his father, Interfax reported. But Ruslan Yamadayev, a former rebel who is now a State Duma deputy, suggested that Sadulayev did not exist. "This is some kind of bluff. I think there is no such person on Earth," Yamadayev said on Ekho Moskvy radio.
In a statement on the Kavkaz Center web site, Maskhadov's family appealed to world leaders to use their authority to help secure the return of Maskhadov's body. They accused Moscow of "trampling on universal human standards" and treating Maskhadov's body in a "savage, barbaric manner," according to the statement attributed to his widow, Kusama, his daughter Fatima and Anzor Maskhadov. "Because of this, more pain has been added to our loss," the statement said. "This is blasphemous and completely inexplicable in a modern, civilized world."
Deputy General Prosecutor Nikolai Shepel said Wednesday that the body is expected to be buried at an undisclosed location -- in line with a federal law on terrorism. Maskhadov was charged with terrorism last year for allegedly ordering the Beslan school attack and charged in 2000 with carrying out an armed revolt in Chechnya.
Lawyer Igor Trunov, who represented the victims of the Dubrovka theater hostage crisis and apartment bombings in Volgodonsk and Moscow, said that according to the law, Maskhadov's body should not be given to his family because he was killed in an anti-terrorist operation. He said, however, that the law violates the Constitution because it allows authorities to declare anyone killed in such operations guilty of terrorism. "Even if they were completely innocent, the family can't recover the body," Trunov said by telephone. "It's a clear violation of rights."
Maskhadov's body has been taken out of Chechnya for an autopsy, after which it will be buried, Shepel said Thursday. The autopsy is expected to last at least two weeks, he said.
Details remained sketchy as to exactly how Maskhadov was killed. Major General Ilya Shabalkin, spokesman for the federal forces in Chechnya, said by telephone that the preliminary version is that Maskhadov died in an explosion after FSB commandos tried to blast their way into the bunker where he was hiding. Citing the ongoing autopsy, Shabalkin declined to comment on a statement attributed to him in The New York Times on Wednesday that Maskhadov was shell-shocked after the blast and was killed by commandos in an ensuing gun battle.
Pictures of Maskhadov's body released by the FSB show what appeared to be a small bullet wound under his left eye. Kommersant, citing forensics experts, said the images indicate that Maskhadov may have been shot in the back of the head and that the injury under his eye was the exit wound.
Ivan Buromsky, a professor at the Russian State Medical University's forensic medicine department, said exit wounds tend to be larger than entrance wounds. "But there are a lot of factors involved, including distance and the weapon used," Buromsky said by telephone. "In fact, sometimes exit and entrance wounds can look very similar."
Buromsky also said that blood that appeared to have trickled out of Maskhadov's left ear in the FSB images gives little insight into how he died. "Any time there is an internal head injury -- be it from a blast, a gunshot or a blunt object -- blood is going flow out of the ears," he said.
Moscow-backed Chechen First Deputy Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov backed off from his initial remarks that Maskhadov had been accidentally shot by a bodyguard. "I was just joking, you know, that a bodyguard's gun accidentally went off," Kadyrov told Interfax. "In reality, they threw a grenade in there, and Maskhadov died from that." Kadyrov also denied a web site report that his security forces had killed Maskhadov on Sunday and that he had asked federal forces to take credit.
In Moscow, the Foreign Ministry angrily lashed out at Poland for criticizing Maskhadov's death. Polish Foreign Minister Adam Rotfeld called the killing "a crime" and "a political mistake because ... Maskhadov was the only partner with whom an agreement could be sought." The Foreign Ministry said Poland does not understand the situation in Chechnya and the war against terrorism.
This article starring:
ABDUL KHALIM SADULAIEV
Chechnya
AKHMED ZAKAIEV
Chechnya
Andrei Malashenko, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center
ANZOR MASKHADOV
Chechnya
ASLAN MASKHADOV
Chechnya
Chechen First Deputy Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov
Deputy General Prosecutor Nikolai Shepel
Ivan Buromsky, a professor at the Russian State Medical University
Lawyer Igor Trunov
Major General Ilya Shabalkin
Polish Foreign Minister Adam Rotfeld
Ruslan Yamadayev
SHAMIL BASAIEV
Chechnya
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/11/2005 12:23:28 AM ||
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#1
Malashenko said Sadulayev is a "colorless personality" who would not be around very long.
2 Words: Dead Pool
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 19:02 Comments ||
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Relatives of Aslan Maskhadov, slain Chechen freedom fighter rebel leader, will not be allowed to bury him because he is considered a major "terrorist," the Moscow state attorney's department said on Wednesday.
But only because he "killed people."
Besides, the stake in his heart meant that they couldn't close the lid on the coffin.
"The law in force does not permit bodies of killed terrorists to be returned to their relatives for burial," Interfax news agency quoted Russian Deputy Attorney-General Nikolai Shepel as saying. Maskhadov was killed Tuesday in a bunker under a building in a Chechen village during an operation led by elite Russian government forces fighting freedom fighters. The deputy attorney general said procedures for identifying the body, being kept at Russian army headquarters at Khankala near the Chechen capital Grozny, would take at least two weeks.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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#1
Cremate the body, mix it with lard, and use it to make soap for cleaning toilets.
It's better than he deserves, but the Russians should be civilized about it, after all.....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/11/2005 1:51 Comments ||
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Technology running rampant in the DPRK!
Pyongyang, March 10 (KCNA) - The Paektusan Institute of Architecture of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has developed a new system of ensuring a good environmental temperature inside buildings. Prof. and Dr. Wi Sok Ryong, who led the development team, told KCNA that it is a method of conditioning air with the environmental temperature (the average temperature of the air and the radiant temperature of interior walls) as the standard. It is far superior to the existing method. Which, I believe, is fire.
It provides 25 degrees C in summer and 22 degrees C in winter, the most proper temperature stipulated by the ISO in all rooms. With this system, the user can control the temperature as he wishes. Wow. How do we stand a chance against these people?!
This system is based on the development of environmental thermometer, computerized air-conditioner providing needed environmental temperature and the measuring method of heat in buildings. The heat measuring method makes it possible to provide the most proper temperature with even an air-conditioning facility the capacity of which is 30 to 40 percent less than the existing one. And with no "on the spot field guidance" from Kimmie. Amazing.
#2
In Next Week's Edition: The Paektusan Institute of Architecture of the Democratic Peopleâs Republic of Korea has developed indoor plumbing.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/11/2005 13:37 Comments ||
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#3
Olde favorite Russian funny:
Doctor: We can remove that toumor March 28, 2008.
Patient (screaming): NO!
Doctor: Sorry, soonest avilable date.
Patient: You don't understand! That's the day they're putting in my phone!
#1
I feel a tremendous sadness for those who died unnecessarily in these attacks, and who will never be avenged due to the cowardice of their countrymen. Maybe we can make the dead honorary Americans? I had so much more respect for Spaniards befor ethis
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 21:26 Comments ||
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Al-Qaeda's frontman in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, vowed to defeat "infidels and apostates" in response to a Madrid conference on terrorism. "We tell the infidels and apostates, the enemies of God: whatever you do, you will be defeated. God promised us victory," read the statement from the Organization of Al-Qaeda of Jihad in the Land of Two Rivers, in a statement published on the Internet. The authenticity of the statement could not be verified. "How many times will the infidels and apostates meet to fight against Islam and combat the Jihad... They have other worries than to fight the Muslims and mistreat them," it said.
The Madrid conference, grouping former presidents and heads of state of democratic countries, on Friday presented the "Madrid Agenda", a series of recommendations aimed at combating terrorism. After three days of conferences, working groups and seminars attended by 200 experts and academics from more than 50 countries, the Madrid group issued a call to action "for governments, institutions, civil society, the media and individuals". It said "a global democratic response" was needed "to counter to the global threat of terrorism". Zarqawi's group has claimed responsibility for scores of deadly attacks in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 10:27:26 AM ||
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The only thing I knew about this conference was that George Soros was there lecturing about the inequities of the Bush doctrine. Did Soros listen to Zarqawai's reply? Does he still think that apologizing to the Jihadis would work?
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
03/11/2005 10:35 Comments ||
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#2
Eventually, I think Spain will get severely punished for having shown "weakness" to these villains. They are attracted like flies to feces to any place where they think they can 'get over'. But the Spanish know no restraint in any direction, so once their patience runs out, they can be expected to overreact horribly.
#8
Al-Qaeda's frontman in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, vowed to defeat "infidels and apostates" 1in response to a Madrid conference on terrorism. "We tell the infidels and apostates, the enemies of God: whatever you do, you will be defeated. God promised us victory,"2 read the statement from the Organization of Al-Qaeda of Jihad in the Land of Two Rivers3, in a statement published on the Internet. "How many times will the infidels and apostates meet to fight against Islam and combat the Jihad... They have other worries than to fight the Muslims and mistreat them,"4
1Followed by this 2Oops sorry Zak â There is no promise of victory. That message of a promise of victory was meant for the Babylon Bruisers of the new Iraq Professional Football League. 3Organization Name of the day. Tomorrow will be different 4Other worries? Like how to exhibit your sorry corpse after you are caught and given the send off same as those you murdered. Perhaps mounting your severed head on a street lamp in central Fallujah would be a nice decoration? There are worries like that â better described as dilemmas
AMSTERDAM — Main opposition party Labour PvdA has refused to back a new mission in which Dutch soldiers will join US and British forces in the hunt for al-Qaeda terrorists in Afghanistan. PvdA MP Bert Koenders said the mission represented a break from a tradition in which the Netherlands always operated within the bounds of international law. The green-left GroenLinks and Socialist SP parties also withheld approval from the new mission.
Despite the opposition, the Cabinet gained majority support with the Christian Democrat CDA, Liberal VVD, Democrat D66 and populist LPF all voting in favour of the troop deployment. The coalition government failed however to gain the overwhelming backing it was hoping for. It is customary in the Netherlands that the cabinet seeks convincing majority support for military operations that involve great risks for the troops involved, news service NOS reported on Thursday.
The cabinet decided last month to dispatch 165 commandos and 85 military police and helicopter personnel to Afghanistan. They will be deployed as part of the Enduring Freedom mission launched by the US after the 11 September terrorist attacks. Although the majority parliamentary support means that the soldiers will be sent to Afghanistan in the coming weeks, MPs remain concerned by that fact that any suspects arrested by Dutch troops will be sent to the US detention centre at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The legal rights of prisoners at Guantanamo have been subject to international criticism, prompting concerns from Dutch MPs. The parliament has also expressed alarm about reports of torture at Guantanamo Bay and the fact that Dutch-detained suspects could also be subjected to similar interrogation techniques.
Liberal VVD MP Hans van Baalen demanded that detainees be treated humanely, but he did not reject the notion they will be sent to Guantanamo. "I prefer to have the terrorists in Guantanamo Bay than in the Laakkwartier in The Hague," he said, referring to the two suspected terrorists arrested in The Hague last November. Foreign Minister Ben Bot also told MPs that he had reached an agreement with the US deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz that Dutch experts would enter into discussions with US authorities about Guantanamo Bay.
The parliament was also concerned about the legal status of soldiers involved in the anti-terror operation. They are concerned the troops will be confronted with both US and British rules of violent engagement. MPs want to avoid a similar situation to that in which marine Erik O. was arrested in Iraq in December 2003 after an Iraqi man was allegedly shot and killed in a looting incident.
Charges of murder or manslaughter against O. were eventually dropped, but the prosecutor has appealed against his October 2004 acquittal of breaching military rules of engagement. Defence Minister Henk Kamp said specialist Dutch troops to be deployed in Afghanistan will operate under Dutch regulations. He also said detailed agreements had been reached with the Public Prosecution Office (OM).
Discussions were sparked earlier this week after Dutch military union AFMP raised concerns about the legal position of the troops. It also questioned the fact that Dutch troops are involved in two conflicting missions in Afghanistan; namely the peacekeeping duties with the Nato-led stabilisation force and the new anti-terror mission.
MPs also backed on Thursday night the deployment of four F-16 fighter jets in Afghanistan. They will replace the Apache combat helicopters the Netherlands has already deployed on peacekeeping duties in the central Asian nation.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 10:03:56 AM ||
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The changes of the past year are etched on Zahira Obaya's pretty face. She was 21 years old when she boarded a commuter train on her way to work last March 11. When the bombs exploded a few minutes later, her face was almost completely destroyed, and today, a piece of gauze covers her missing eye. "There is no justification for what they did," she says. "But I think I can understand how the war, the killings, would create that kind of hatred."
Ms. Obaya is living proof that the Spanish response to the worst terrorist attack in the country's history is nothing if not complicated. As experts and world leaders gather here this week to hammer out an agreement on how best to fight terror democratically, they do so in a city that has reached little consensus on what last year's attacks meant.
Seventy five people have been implicated in the attacks; 28 of them are in Spanish custody. The investigations will probably continue for several more months, but judicial reports suggest that a loose network of individuals, some with connections to the Moroccan Islamic Combat Group, used criminal contacts and drug money to obtain the explosives that killed 191 people and injured more than 1,500 others at a Madrid train station.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/11/2005 12:15:58 AM ||
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#1
Well I guess the decades of PC indoctrination have paid off. Here we have the female Fisk... "But I think I can understand how the war, the killings, would create that kind of hatred."
All she needed to add was "If I had been them I would have tried to kill me too." Sheep to the slaughter. Bleah.
#2
How exactly can one "understand how the war ... would create that kind of hatred", and yet be completely opposed to seeking vengeance of one's own? Why could you not extend that same understanding to us after 9/11? WTF is wrong with you people?
#4
"There is no justification for what they did," she says. "But I think I can understand how the war, the killings, would create that kind of hatred."
Please.
How about explaining what "war" and "killing" was behind the 9/11/2001 attacks in New York? Stupid little putz.
MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Muslim clerics in Spain issued what they called the world's first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden on Thursday, the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the al Qaeda leader.
The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country's 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission represents 200 or so mostly Sunni mosques, or about 70 percent of all mosques in Spain.
The March 11, 2004, train bombings killed 191 people and were claimed in videotapes by militants who said they had acted on al Qaeda's behalf in revenge for Spain's troop deployment in Iraq.
The commission's secretary general, Mansur Escudero, said the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco -- home to most of the jailed suspects in the bombings -- Algeria and Libya, and had their support.
"They agree," Escudero said, referring to the Muslim leaders in the three North African countries. "What I want is that they say so publicly."
The fatwa said that according to the Quran "the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al Qaeida ... are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam."
It added: "Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran ... they are committing the crime of 'istihlal' and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such."
The Arabic term "istihlal" refers to the act of making up one's own laws.
Escudero said a fatwa can be issued by any Muslim leader who leads prayer sessions and as he serves such a role, he himself lawfully issued the edict.
He called it an unprecedented condemnation of bin Laden. "We felt now we had the responsibility and obligation to make this declaration," he said in an interview.
"I hope there is a positive reaction from Muslims," he added.
Asked if the edict meant Muslims had to help police try to arrest the world's most wanted man -- who is believed to be hiding along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan -- Escudero said: "We don't get involved in police affairs but we do feel that all Muslims are obliged to ... keep anyone from doing unjustified damage to other people."
I've been waiting since 9/11 for this, but it's a big late!
Posted by: (=Cobra=) ||
03/11/2005 7:36:29 AM ||
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#2
As I indicated yesterday, classifying the terrorists as "apostates that should not be considered Muslims" puts them in the same bin with us. I'm thrilled.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/11/2005 8:38 Comments ||
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A Fatwa, With a Hitch
On the anniversary of the terror attack in Madrid--followed three days later by the election of a pro-appeasement Socialist government--comes some mildly good news. "Spain's Islamic Commission, which groups the nation's Muslim community, said it was issuing a fatwa against Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden," reports AFX, the financial news service of Agence France-Presse. But there's a catch:
The Commission has also drawn up a document designed to "thank the Spanish people and the government for their attitude towards Muslims" since last March 11, in particular for not taking "disproportionate" measures similar to those which the Sept 11 attacks sparked in the US.
What "disproportionate" measures? Liberating 50 million Muslims from two of the most brutal dictatorships in the world? The message here seems to be: We condemn terrorism, now shut up and take it. The Spaniards may well continue to oblige.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 19:05 Comments ||
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First the main piece from Rooters...
An overnight sit-in on board a Lufthansa plane by 56 Iranian monarchist protesters ended peacefully at Brussels airport Friday after Belgian police escorted them all off the aircraft.
The unarmed group of men, women and three children refused to leave the Boeing 737 flight from Frankfurt for 16 hours in a protest against Iran's Islamic government.
"The plane is empty now ... there was no violence at all," said police spokesman Olivier Vincent. He said the protesters faced only "administrative arrest," which meant they would shortly be free to leave.
One person was forcibly escorted off the plane at the end of the protest and another was treated by doctors after collapsing upon disembarking. Several riot control vehicles had assembled near the aircraft, which was flanked by police vans.
"We want the European Union to remove the Islamic leaders from Iran," Armin Atshgar, one of the protesters, told Reuters by mobile phone during the sit-in. "We want to remove the mullahs from power."
Compare with Xinhua... Note that they fail to make clear what the protestors are actually protesting...
Police on Friday ended a 13-hour occupation of a Lufthansa airliner at the Brussels airport by protesters, who claimed to be of Iranian origin, news reports said.
The protesters left the German plane at around 0430 GMT after being threatened with "administrative arrest," police said.
The plane with 120 passengers on board arrived from Frankfurt on Thursday afternoon. About 60 passengers refused to leave the craft in protest at the policy of the European Union (EU) toward Iran while other passengers and crew got off.
The protesters all held passports from EU nations, but they said they were of Iranian origin, according to police. For once, I have to hand it to Rooters - at least they didn't withhold the key bit if info that makes the story worth reading. Xinhua. Shit.
Posted by: .com ||
03/11/2005 6:17:03 AM ||
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"We want the European Union to remove the Islamic leaders from Iran,"
US President George W Bush sent a message of condolences to the Spanish people on the eve of the anniversary of the country's worst terrorist attacks. But Bush sent the message to the Spanish media, apparently bypassing the Spanish Socialist government of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. Bush and Zapatero have not enjoyed the best of relations (ahem) since the Spanish premier withdrew Spanish troops from Iraq last year a month after being elected in a shock victory on 14 March. Despite passing each other in the hallway a brief meeting in Brussels earlier this month, the two leaders have not spoken since Zapatero became prime minister.
The Spanish Foreign Ministry said on Thursday it did not know anything about Bush's message. In his statement, Bush said: "On 11 March we remember the lives lost a year ago in Madrid. The world is united in our determination to beat global terrorism. We share a common belief in those values of liberty and in the sanctity of life. We continue fighting against terrorism and working for liberty so that the world is a more peaceful place."
Bush added: "Terrorists hate and want to attack any country in the world which defends democracy, tolerance and liberty. They kill innocents without compassion. To all those who lost a loved one on 11 March, this has been a year of sadness and pain. From all Americans, I send a message of compassion and solidarity on this solemn day. God bless the people of Spain and the souls of the absent."
#1
Somebody help me out here. Is this or is this not roughly the diplomatic equivalent of landing an invasion force at Vigo, moving them on to Madrid by way of Barcelona & Seville, then having them erect a massive statue of Bush baring his ass & flipping the bird in the general direction of the Congreso de los Diputados?
#3
No it's a personal message to the people of Spain. Their current government would have spun it a support for the socialist government. There is no such support by our government who considers, and rightfully so, Zapatero a back stabbing 3rd rate light weight and the government weak appeasers.
The European Parliament branded Lebanon's Hezbollah movement a "terrorist" group yesterday and urged European Union ministers to take action against the organization. "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them," a non-binding resolution adopted by a big majority said. The resolution, which also renewed a call for Syria to withdraw its troops and intelligence services from Lebanon, was adopted by 473 votes to eight with 33 abstentions.
The EU is under pressure from the United States and Israel to add the Iranian-backed Hezbollah to its list of outlawed terrorist organizations, obliging member states to seize its assets and take action against its members. But several EU governments, concerned about upsetting delicate Middle East negotiations, have so far been reluctant, including France, Spain and Britain. Hezbollah has several elected members of the Lebanese Parliament and runs welfare services as well as an armed militia.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
I am shocked. I figure France and Germany will feel free to ignore this but sounds like some folks are starting to get it.
#4
I dunno about Germany being so sympathetic to the imaginary "political wing" BS - France is the real culprit and sponsor of these terrs. Spain's prolly onboard, now. Jack Straw may have jacked them a bit - he seems to have some odd compulsions.
#6
In one aspect, Chirac is probably affraid about getting outflanked by Bush in his own colonial fiefdom.
But more than that Chirac was reportedly a friend fo Rafikiri. He may not give a damn about spreading freedom to Lebanon but if he has any principles at all, they're probably those of the mob boss, i.e. based on protecting his fellow cronies. But someone went and offed 'a member of da family.'
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
03/11/2005 6:49 Comments ||
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#7
CHANGE THE PICTURE!!!!! This definitely deserves a Jaw Drop.
#9
JIT is closer than anyone. It was France that was stopping the EU from doing this, and Hezb has crossed France on the future of Lebanon, choosing Syria over France when it came time to make a choice. Now Hezb must pay.
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan proposed the creation of a comprehensive treaty on terrorism Thursday, denouncing attacks that target civilians and arguing that no political grievance justifies killing the innocent. Speaking at an international conference on terrorism, Annan said prevention is the best counterterrorism strategy, though he stressed that human rights and the rule of law must always be respected.
Hunting terrs down and doing terrible things to them is the best counterterrorism strategy. It's my opinion, and I know I'm neanderthal about these things, that you give up your "human rights" when you cut somebody's head off, or kill a school full of children.
"We cannot compromise on the core values," he said in an address to experts and world leaders from 50 countries, including Spain's Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, Afghan President Hamid Karzai and U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
That's a pretty mealy-mouthed statement. We can't compromise on our core values, but we can define our core values in such a way that we can't actually do anything except administer a stern talking-to, apparently. My core values would allow me to sign a death warrant for somebody like Zarqawi or Basayev or Zawahiri, to be implemented immediately upon capture or at any time thereafter.
Taking a veiled swipe at the United States, Annan said that some countries were violating human rights in their fight against terrorism.
Where's the veil?
Although he did not name any country, many of the attendees took that to be shielded criticism of U.S. President George W. Bush's administration, which came in for frequent roasting from participants during the conference. International human rights experts "are unanimous in finding that many measures which states are currently adopting to counter terrorism infringe on human rights and fundamental freedoms," he said.
I'd say that cutting people's heads off, sending people to explode in mosques, shooting up churches, kidnapping, and assassination infringe more deeply on fundamental freedoms than anything we've done.
Annan's speech touched on themes discussed by experts during the conference - that the world community must join together to fight violence and rally around common goals. He appealed for vigilance, particularly in light of the possibility that terrorists could obtain weapons of mass destruction. He said: "Perhaps the thing that is most vital we deny to terrorists is access to nuclear materials. Nuclear terrorism is still often treated as science fiction. I wish it were."
Then why the hell don't you try to do something about it?
The four-day conference is sponsored by the Club de Madrid, which is comprised of 56 former presidents and prime ministers. Delegates have worked since Tuesday on research panels trying to identify causes of terrorism and to propose solutions. Their recommendations, including a proposed UN definition of terrorism, will be refined into guidelines called the "Madrid Agenda" that conference participants plan to take back to their governments.
They will then proceed to ignore it, but they'll expect us to adhere to it, whether we sign on or not...
Addressing the conference, Afghan President Hamid Karzai urged the international community to unite to eradicate terrorism, as it had done to free his country from Taliban rule. "Afghanistan has proved that when the international community wakes up and joins hands it can defeat any menace," he said, regretting that for too long the world had "unfortunately neglected" Afghanistan following the Soviet withdrawal in 1989. "Afghanistan was incapacitated by years of war" which gave way to the rise of the Taliban, finally ousted in 2002 by a multinational force with a United Nations mandate. The absence of such a mandate poisoned relations between the international community and Washington when it came to the conflict in Iraq. "When the help of the international community came [Afghanistan] was freed immediately," Karzai told delegates. "The election wrought a massive transformation in the minds of the people," he said.
But that was just a fluke. We were expected to return home when it was over, and let the country fall back into its wonted anarchy.
Javier Solana, EU foreign policy chief and former head of NATO, said respect for democracy had to be paramount. "In the struggle against terrorism we should be the first to uphold democratic values. It would be our first defeat if we resort to the methods of the terrorists," he told the assembly.
"Therefore the proper way to handle terrorism is to hold lots of meetings."
Whoopdy do.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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I thought hunting down terrorists and doing terrible things to them WAS prevention.
#2
Javer Solana and Kofi Annan 2 of the biggest enablers of terrorism going. A meeting of experts? Just how many terrorist attacks have these experts stopped? How many terrorists have these experts locked and/or killed? Crickets? I thought so.
#3
It is oddly satisfying to know how predictable and utterly insensate the Socialist / Tranzi voices are. Buttercup never misses his mark or varies from the script. And every utterance of such idiocy as this helps cement the understanding among Americans that the UN is an enemy organization with which we share no values or goals. Keep it up, Buttercup.
#4
Yes, of course we must wipe out terrorism, whatever that is, as we have not defined it yet, but let's try to be nice about it, okay? Fifteen or twenty more conferences on it and we might have an idea about how we maybe might want to go about possibly doing something about it.
Waiter! This steak is undercooked! Send it back!
#5
SPOD - These are experts at enabling, ignoring, and sponsoring terrorism.
Plus you also have to have experts on holding conferences, proper 'dining' at 5 star hotels, experts at determining the right 'tip' to leave (in order to give just the right impression). Experts on table and seating arrangements (you wouldn't want to offend the muslims or arab by having them sit within 50' of a jew or black for example). Catering experts. Wine experts. etc...
And of course experts on kissing ass, hiring members of the 'sex industry', etc....
#6
"...human rights and the rule of law must always be respected..."
Tell that to the WTC terrorists and the Madrid terrorists. Tell that to the Taliban and to the Saddam thugs that filled those mass graves in Iraq. Tell that to the fanatics developing missiles and nuclear weapons in Iran and North Korea. What have you done for us lately, Kofi?
Posted by: Tom ||
03/11/2005 9:40 Comments ||
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The four-day conference is sponsored by the Club de Madrid, which is comprised of 56 former presidents and prime ministers. Delegates have worked since Tuesday on research panels trying to identify causes of terrorism and to propose solutions. Their recommendations, including a proposed UN definition of terrorism, will be refined into guidelines called the "Madrid Agenda" that conference participants plan to take back to their governments.
Iran said today it planned to put on display three British naval boats it seized last year, but Britain denounced the move and said talks were continuing for the vessels to be returned.
Iran's state television said the boats would be displayed on the shores of the Shatt al-Arab waterway, which divides south-western Iran from Iraq, during Iran's New Year holidays which begin on March 21.
"This is not a constructive way to resolve this dispute," a British Foreign Office spokesman said in London, adding that talks were continuing to get the boats back.
The families of Iranians killed in the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war often visit the worst-affected border regions during the New Year holidays to pay their respects to the dead.
Iran's Revolutionary Guards seized the three British patrol boasts, which were being delivered to Iraqi police, in the Shatt al-Arab last June and arrested eight British servicemen aboard.
The men were released after three days but their boats and equipment, including weapons and navigational gear, were kept.
Tehran says the boats had strayed into Iranian waters. Britain says they were intercepted in Iraqi waters and forced over to the Iranian border.
Posted by: tipper ||
03/11/2005 9:36:59 AM ||
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Oh please, yes, put them on display!
The UK has already fallen off the E3 bandwagon - a good start. Pissing of the entire populace of the UK will do wonders for the Iranian MMs!
Excellent idea! This MUST have come from the geniuses who run their Foreign Ministry. Bravo! You Rock! You Rule! Lol!
Israel's military has been preparing for the increasing prospect of a war with Syria in a confrontation expected to include Iran and Hizbullah. The General Staff has discussed an assessment by the military's Northern Command of an emerging threat from Syria and Hizbullah over the next year. Northern Command said a weakened Syria, under pressure from the United States to withdraw from Lebanon, was likely to approve an Iranian-Hizbullah campaign against Israel. "We might have to fight those countries, which could drive them back a dozen years," Maj. Gen. Benny Gantz, chief of Northern Command, said. "We can drive Lebanon and Syria 50 years back. It's an option." Gantz told the LIC-2005 conference on Wednesday that Hizbullah -- backed by Iran and Syria -- has become a strategic threat to Israel. He cited the 15,000 missiles and rockets deployed by Hizbullah along the Lebanese border with Israel and the Shi'ite organization's increasing support of Palestinian insurgency cells in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Sounds like a plan to me, General, but see what you can do to drive Syria and the Hizzies in southern Lebanon back 50 years (or 500, since they seem to already be there in spirit) and leave the decent Lebanese in peace.
Of course, you can give Baby Assad and the Hizzies some peace, too - grave peace.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/11/2005 1:56 Comments ||
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If Syria can be successfully pressured to move out of Lebanon, it can be pressured for more.
Right now military action of Israel against Syria would be foolish unless Assad chooses to hang himself.
#4
It's not about Israel anymore. I think that more and more Arabs are finally acknowledging that no matter what their opinions of Israel are, they can't be allowed to be distracted from their own troubles by that old nonsense anymore. Anytime an Arab despot or leader faces any heat, they immediately start yelping about the Jooooooos, knowing that they can get away with anything as long as they blame Israel and whip up a fresh batch of hatred.
After all this time people are finally waking up to the misdirection and they're not going to let Assad off the hook and if he launches an attack on Israel, it will only be seen as a desperate ploy, an admission of defeat.
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
03/11/2005 10:22 Comments ||
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So, Syria wants to go for defeat #5 against Israel? Power to you Assad, you are gonna need it.
Iran's foreign minister has told a Bosnian newspaper that if Washington decides to attack Iran it will be a nightmare for the United States. "If America decides to attack Iran, they will make a big mistake. It will be a nightmare for them," Kamal Kharrazi was quoted as saying in an interview published yesterday in the Nezavisne Novine newspaper. Kharrazi is part of an Iranian delegation led by President Mohammad Khatami which concluded a three-day visit to Bosnia yesterday.
Disputes between Iran and the US "have a long history," Kharrazi was quoted as telling the Banja Luka-based daily. "During our conflict with Iraq, the US took the side of our enemies. There are also many other problems," Kharrazi was quoted as saying. He said talk of American military intervention in Iran was "political pressure... The United States does not want to understand that Iran is an important player in global relations. Iran is democratic and has a positive role in promoting peace and security in the world." At the end of the interview Kharrazi said that unlike Iraq, Iran is "a united nation and a strong government." "If they (the United States) attack us, I think, it will above all be a nightmare for them," Kharrazi was quoted as saying.
A classic case of delusions of adequacy.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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Yadda, yadda, yadda.
*Yawn*
I miss Spiro Agnew - at least he could come up with some good stuff to say instead of the boring, repetitive crap we have to put up with nowadays.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/11/2005 1:53 Comments ||
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Geez - they bluster more than the neighbor's chickenshit dog, barking all night at its own shadow. Enough, already.
It's already a nightmare any time we try to deal with these screwballs. Maybe one more very intense meeting - between their narrow asses and a rain of our steel - and the nightmare will begin to end.
#3
I guess Saddam still hangs on to his trademarked "mother of all battles" huh?
And Kimmie has "sea of fire". Maybe Kharrazi should look up Websters to find something a bit less lame than "nightmare"? Or ask the Iraqi Information Minister.
#6
Everything Spiro said worth remembering came from the pen of William Safire. I suspect John Bolton will be filling your need, Barbara. The hearings should be fun.
Stock up on popcorn now.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
03/11/2005 10:52 Comments ||
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Wossamatter? Why don't you SAY it? If the US attacks Iran it'll be a quagmire!
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/11/2005 14:00 Comments ||
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Does anyone else wonder whether they might not already have the big one?
#10
No, Jules, I don't. They're just counting on disrupting the oil supply of the western world and unleashing some of their terrorists. But protecting the oil supply is priority one in any attack and unleashing more terrorism is only going to compound their grief.
Don't underestimate the oil supply problem -- even a brief shortage can cause us grief with China, India, and Europe to name a few. For that reason, I expect that we will take out the Iranian military near the Gulf simultaneously with taking out nuke facilities and mullahs. I'd guess in the next year or two in late winter in the northern hemisphere when winter heating supplies are least vulnerable.
Given Bush's record for straight talk, I expect it to happen. Our attack is not going to be telegraphed in advance or pretty. There won't be any obvious build-up as in Kuwait because there will be minimal invasion. I'll wager that it will be darned quick and overwhelming.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/11/2005 15:22 Comments ||
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Wankistan
Heh, .com! That gets my vote for Snarky Word of the Day.
The Spectator article gives the bare bones of the debate points and audience harassment of the anti- anti-war side as racist Zionists. The situation is expanded upon below from an article in Campus J, the Jewish student newspaper. And yes, I think it's sad that the Jewish students at Columbia feel the need for their own newpaper because of the antisemitism they experience in one of this country's premier universities. Here are excerpts from the article.
Last night Columbians for Academic Freedom and the Columbia anti-War Coalition debated the MEALAC issue in front of a packed room at Earl Hall. Today's coverage in the Spectator accurately describes the nature of each side's argument as well as the overall tenor of the debate. While members of CAF continued to argue that their motives were not political and the issue at hand was intimidation in the classroom and suppression of open dialogue, the debaters on behalf of the Columbia anti-War Coalition maintained — as they have through the creation of a spin-off group, "Stop McCarthyism at Columbia" — that CAF's claims are merely a "smoke screen" that they have used to launch a "smear campaign" against professors critical of Israel.
The majority of those in attendace supported the views of the Columbia anti-War Coalition and during the question portion of the debate vigorously condemned the students representing CAF, mostly in long accusatory speeches as opposed to pointed questions.
The debate was anything but. The forum was proposed for a civil sharing of views; what ensued, however, was a two-hour tongue-lashing of Columbians for Academic Freedom. Members of the Columbia anti-War Coaltion as well as many people from the audience blamed the group for personally assailing the lives and livelihoods of the professors they have accused of intimidation. As the CAF students spoke, members of the audience yelled "Liar!" and "Shame on you!"
This cauldron of intolerance and anti-intellectualism is not unique to Columbia. In fact, the strong Jewish and pro-Israel contingency on campus insulates Columbia students from the outright anti-Semitism that is ever-increasing on college campuses as an outgrowth of debate over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In this week's Jewish Week, Rebecca Kahn, the Jewish National Fund's campus coordinator for its Caravan for Democracy Program, provides a frightening look into the darkest side of anti-Israel activity on American college campuses. Law School Dean David Schizer was right to point out the exceptionally friendly atmosphere Columbia provides for Jewish students; nevertheless, it is clear that the vitriol that consumed last night's event was not motivated by outrage concerning issues of academic freedom, but rather was spawned by an attempt to defame and discredit Columbians for Academic Freedom by slapping them with politically charged labels and, to a greater extent, castigate "ultra-conservative" groups like the "David Project" and "Campus-Watch" for promoting Israel advocacy on campus.
#1
time to call in the Justice Dept, FIRE, and Jewish alumni with closed checkbooks. Shut down the financing of these halls of liars and propaganda. Hit them where they can't defend themselves - with finding a paying job outside Academia.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 18:37 Comments ||
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No firing isn't going to be enough. anti-semitism has to be stamped out. Their should be no freedom to be an anti-semite period. IF these terrorist loving liberals and jihadi loving retards don't get that they should pay the consequences. Loss of a pay check written by the taxpayers and students should be the first step.
#3
? my ref to FIRE is to the Org who represents students on campus against PC nonsense. I agree that anti-semitism needs to be rooted out, abruptly and publicly. Trouble is (to some) it tramples on their tenure rights to spit on those who pay 'em...I say TFB...don't let the unemployment check run out, or you'll have to find a job in the service industry, and they won't tolerate that BS over the Jack-In-The-Box orderphone
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 22:40 Comments ||
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EFL and non-trader information.
Oil prices slid below $53 a barrel on Friday, extending the previous day's heavy losses, as funds took profits from a 12 percent gain in the past month.
A big stock build in the United States encouraged selling, although losses were limited by a weaker dollar and longer-term worries that energy demand growth this year would outpace supply. Wednesday's U.S. government report showed another build in US. crude oil inventories last week -- the fourth in a row -- taking supply to the highest level in eight months.
Strong global demand and a late-winter cold snap helped send oil prices soaring this week to a four-month high of $55.65 a barrel, 2 cents shy of October's all-time peak. But OPEC oil producers are keeping a close watch over rising stocks in developed countries ahead of the usual second-quarter slowdown, when temperatures warm up.
"OPEC is keen to prevent a rise in world stocks. So if anything, decreasing, rather than increasing, output is their preferred option," commodities strategis David Thurtell said in a report.
More support was seen in China's February crude oil imports, which bounced back from a 14-month low in January, a sign that demand in the world's second-biggest consumer was not slowing. Analysts had been counting on a rebound in imports after January data showed a steep 24 percent fall, the first annual drop for two and a half years, casting a clll help keep prices high this year.
On the supply side, top exporter Saudi Arabia has told Asian customers it would keep oil supplies steady in April, a sign that OPEC may leave output unchanged at net week's meeting in Iran. Kuwait also plans to keep crude supply to Japan unchanged for April, traders said on Friday.
But OPEC oil to be shippd in the four weeks to March 26 fell 130,000 bpd to 23.93 million bpd, hit by a slump in spot loadings from the Gulf, a leading oil shipping analyst said. I'm sure somebody will understand this last bit, but it's beyond my little brain, I'm afraid.
US forces might not have known that slain Italian secret agent Nicola Calipari was in Iraq to secure a hostage's freedom, Italian papers say. Calipari was killed by US troops' fire while escorting journalist Giuliana Sgrena by car to Baghdad airport. But the press quotes an Italian general who liaised between US forces and Italian intelligence as saying he did not know Calipari was on a rescue bid.
His report is now in the hands of Rome prosecutors investigating the killing.
According to newspaper La Repubblica, Gen Mario Marioli helped the two Italian secret service agents obtain a special badge from the coalition forces on their arrival in Baghdad. But Gen Marioli, who is the coalition forces' second-in-command, reportedly was unaware that the officers were on a mission to free Ms Sgrena, and so the information he passed on to US officials was incomplete.
Gen Marioli's testimony is crucial because he is the man who was keeping the US forces informed of the car's arrival before the fatal shooting, in which a US patrol killed the secret service agent and injured Ms Sgrena and a second officer. Gen Marioli's version, as reported by the papers, also contradicts a reconstruction by the Italian government and Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who said the US military had been advised that Ms Sgrena was on board the car.
Sounds like they opened their mouths before they knew the facts.
The US military have said they had no knowledge of the rescue mission. Meanwhile, it has emerged that the US had set up makeshift checkpoints along the road to the airport the night of the fatal shooting because the outgoing US ambassador, John Negroponte, was travelling on the same road. Italian media have been speculating that Italy might have deliberately kept the mission wrapped in secrecy because the US did not approve of the ongoing negotiations with the kidnappers. The US-led coalition has launched an investigation into the shooting with the participation of Italian officials. The inquiry is led by Gen Peter Vangjel, and is expected to take up to four weeks.
Additional: (AGI) - Rome, Italy, Mar 11 - The investigation by Rome's public prosecutor's office on the homicide of Sismi agent Nicola Calipari and the attempted homicide of journalist Giuliana Sgrena and the Carabinieri major who was driving the car shot by 'friendly fire' could be delayed due to inevitable bureaucratic affairs. The Toyota Corolla, which the US military authorities made available to Italian ones so that once transported to Rome it could be examined by ballistic experts appointed by the prosecutor, could stay for some time longer in Iraqi territory. In fact, it appears that the vehicle on which the three were riding will not leave Baghdad, under US control, due to the making of the joint Italy-USA commission established to shed light on last week's occurrence. Public Prosecutors Franco Ionta, Erminio Amelio and Pietro Saviotti hoped to be able to have the car by this week.
The three telephones that Calipari and the other Sismi agent had were recovered. The verification of their contents should be started soon even though it will have to be understood if Italian intelligence will tag the contents a state secret.
Finally, the public prosecution's examination and the report of Italian Army General Mario Marioli, according to whom USA did not know that the objective of Calipari's was to free Sgrena. The report of the local Sismi chief in Baghdad is still missing. His hearing, with all the precaution of the case, is in the program of the magistrates. (AGI)
More: In interviews published Friday, Sgrena said that no light was flashed at the vehicle and that the shots were not fired in front of the car. "It's not true that they shot into the engine," she told Corriere della Sera, adding that the shooting came "from the right and from behind." In a parliament speech earlier this week, Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini said photos of the vehicle, which is still in Iraq, show that the fire "hit the right side of the car."
Well, if the shot's came from behind, Ms Sgrena, I guess that means you had blown thru that roadblock, now doesn't it?
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 1:50:34 PM ||
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Sounds like they opened their mouths to obscure the facts.
This is shameful conduct by an erstwhile ally. Now we know what Rommel must have experienced.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
03/11/2005 15:20 Comments ||
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Quoting from a report by Marioli to magistrates investigating Calipari's death, La Repubblica said the general provided documents for the intelligence officer and his aide to move around freely. But he did not know details of their operation in Baghdad, according to his report.
Italian military intelligence informed him late on March 4 that Calipari and his aide would return to Baghdad airport in the company of "an Italian national without a coalition and airport pass". It was not clear if Marioli knew at this stage that Sgrena was the unidentified passenger.
Marioli was tasked with asking US military officials to grant access to the airport to an Italian national traveling with two officials already identified earlier in the day, said La Repubblica. "This was an exchange of information between the military," said the paper. "Marioli had no contact with US intelligence officers."
"The US chain of command had only bits of information.... According to his report General Marioli could not give the Americans the make (a Toyota Corolla), the color (light grey), or the Iraqi license plate," said La Repubblica quoting from the report. "He could not do so because he didn't know and because any problem seemed to be resolved after the main checkpoint had been notified," it added.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 16:07 Comments ||
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..the erstwhile "details" are smelly...could it be they opened additional orifice?
#5
All this handwringing over being in the dark is totally unnecessary. If the Italians want to be willing extortion victims, and keep all their payouts hush-hush, that's their business. In the end, had the car's driver not been piloting the car in the manner that he apparently was, nobody would have died. Period. Case closed.
#6
Gen Mario Marioli helped the two Italian secret service agents obtain a special badge from the coalition forces on their arrival in Baghdad. So, Nicola Calipari and the Carabinieri major who drove the car had proper documents allowing them to travel freely. However,Giuliana Sgrena did not have a pass and her escorts did not want the American military to know they had a freed hostage with them. It's little wonder that they tried to run a road block. Dumb move. High price to pay.
Masked gunmen from the militant Islamic Jihad group staged a pro-Syrian rally in the Gaza Strip on Friday, marching through Gaza City's main thoroughfare and burning Israeli and American flags. "The Palestinian people came out today to send a message that we reject the American plans in this region. We reject the American-Israeli plan to plant civil disturbances and discord in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria," said Mohammed al Hindi, an Islamic Jihad leader. Pro- and anti-Syrian demonstrations have jolted Lebanon since the Feb. 14 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, which the opposition has blamed on the Lebanese government and its Syrian backers. Both deny involvement. About 2,000 people showed up for the pro-Syrian demonstration in Gaza, including about 1,500 masked men and some 500 supporters who took to the streets after Friday prayers. The demonstrators carried effigies of US President George W. Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon with the caption, "you have no place here." Demonstrators waved Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese flags tied together, and burned two Israeli and two US flags. The rally followed a demonstration in Beirut on Tuesday by the Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah that drew hundreds of thousands in a show of support for Syria's presence.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 9:36:17 AM ||
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We reject the American-Israeli plan to plant civil disturbances and discord in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria,â
couldnt he have saved breath and just said "disturbances and discord in Greater Syria"?
March 11, 2005: The root of Islamic terrorism is religious leaders who proclaim terrorism in the name of God to be a good and worthy thing. Some Islamic nations are getting down in the trenches and fighting this sort of thing at the source. In Jordan, the king has backed a counter-attack by Islamic scholars who disagree with the Islamic radicals interpretation of the Koran. Most Islamic scholars do not agree with the scriptural interpretations of radical Islam, but have been ignored, or terrorized into silence. The media, of course, finds the bloodthirsty version of Islam more appealing. If it bleeds, it leads, and all that.
In Jordan, the kings backing of increasingly vocal mainstream Islamic scholars has prevented Islamic radicals from terrorizing their clerical critics, and made Islamic radicalism less appealing. There's also fear that this will cause the Islamic radicals to go underground. But many of the more violent Islamic radicals have long been operating in the shadows. What the king of Jordan wants to do is get the Islamic radicals out of the schools and pulpits. This takes muscle, and the king is providing it. As a result, the Islamic radicals get a smaller audience, and fewer recruits.
Yemen, where the bin Laden family came from originally, is also cracking down on Islamic radical preachers and teachers. The government has identified over 4,000 schools in the country that are run by unauthorized groups, or foreigners. There is a crackdown on this, even though the government provides no alternative form of public education. Saudi Arabian religious charities have long used money, to build and staff religious schools, as a major form of spreading the conservative Wahabi form of Islam. Most, but not all, Islamic radicals trace their roots back to Wahhabism. Yemen, and other Moslem countries, don't mind Saudi charities coming in and building mosques and schools. They do, increasingly, mind the Saudi groups supply Islamic radicals as preachers and teachers.
Pakistan, Indonesia and several African countries have also started to monitor and regulate what is taught in the schools sponsored by Saudi religious charities, or other Islamic radical groups. This is popular with parents, who don't like seeing their kids turned into terrorists, or little religious tyrants who criticize their elders poor religious habits. In Jordan, and all the other nations, the Islamic moderates have the support of most of the population. Now that support is being mobilized to stop the Islamic radicals. The fact that most terrorists operating today are Islamic terrorists is not something most Moslems are proud of, or sympathetic with.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 8:44:47 AM ||
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Chuck, I suspect most of the "schools" are tiny one-room things with two or three teachers/jailers. After all, all they are teaching is rote memorization of the Quran in Arabic and of the Salafi rules & regs. in the local language. And the care and feeding of Kalashnikovs instead of playground time after lunch.
#7
You know, for such a tiny and low population figure of a country Yemen has a population of 20M not much less than Saudi's 25M. Its also quite big - around the size of France.
The government has banned possession, sale and use of heavy and 'nuclear weapons of all types' in all the tribal regions, says a notification issued by the Governor's Secretariat (Fata).
However, tribesmen in Wana on Thursday agreed to sell their weapons to the government at market price. The government, as part of the 'Weapons Policy for Fata', has already started what it calls the 'Weapons Buy Back Programme' to encourage tribesmen to sell their heavy weapons to the government.
"The unrestricted dissemination of dangerous weapons and firearms in the tribal areas and their frequent use in various inter and intra-tribal feuds and use of such weapons against the security forces has been a serious cause of concern," the notification titled 'Weapons Policy for Fata' said.
The order was issued to the administrators of all the seven tribal regions with copies for information to the Headquarters of 11 Corps and Frontier Corps in Peshawar. It sets out policy guidelines to restrict and regulate the possession and sale of arms in the tribal areas.
It said the tribesmen could keep small arms for their personal protection till the law and order situation improved, and the government was in a position to provide and ensure security of their life and property. By way of definition, an official privy to the formulation of the weapons policy said, tribesmen could keep the prized AK-47 Kalashnikov rifles.
"However, there shall be a complete ban on display and carrying of all kinds of firearms in the main bazaars, towns, within the premises of educational institutions, at fairs or in gatherings or processions of religious, ceremonial or sectarian character or other public places," the order read.
Though the order has become effective, witnesses in the volatile South Waziristan tribal region told Dawn that there was total disregard for the new policy as people could be seen moving around in vehicles mounted with Dshka or the 12.7mm light anti-aircraft guns in bazaars and markets and passing through checkpoints manned by the paramilitary Frontier Corps.
In its annexure "A", the order has listed heavy weapons to include all cannons, all types of artillery, mortars, machines, and submachine guns, anti-tank rifles and recoil-less guns or rifles and bazookas, nuclear weapons of all types, projectors, guided missiles, and discharges for grenades, rockets, bombs and gas or smoke containers, flame throwers of all types, all carriages, platforms and appliances for mounting or transporting cannons and parts of cannons.
However, the government did not explained as to why it chose to include nuclear weapons for the ban since there has been no evidence to suggest that the tribesmen or foreign militants associated with Al-Qaeda hiding in the region are in possession of such weapons of mass destruction.
The official acknowledged that there had been no evidence of the availability of nuclear weapons with tribesmen or foreign militants, but said the order had been drafted with a view to meet future challenges.
"We are thinking 100 years ahead," the official remarked, requesting he not be named. Brig Mahmood Shah, who heads the security department in Fata, said the government had allocated Rs20 million to buy back weapons.
"If need be, we can get more money to buy heavy weapons that are not supposed to be with tribesmen," he said. He said the government had planned to regulate the sale and purchase of weapons, arms and ammunition in the tribal areas to bring it in conformity with the rest of the country.
Annexure "B" spells out the Standing Operating Procedure of the Weapons Buy Back Programme. It said the programme had been launched with a view to deny access to heavy weapons by terrorists who had been using them against security forces, particularly in Waziristan, since the start of the Operation Al-Mizan against foreign militants and their local harbourers.
The programme would be conducted through the Frontier Corps with the inspector general of the FC as its overall in charge to supervise the plan in all the tribal regions.
Purchase committees are to include administrators of their respective tribal regions as their presidents, with members drawn in from the Frontier Corps and intelligence agencies, to set the base price for all weapons and ammunition to be purchased; ascertain their serviceability and ensure transparency in their dealings.
A technical committee has also been formed to carry out inspection of the weapons and ammunition purchased, ascertain their serviceability, safe and proper storage and carry out destruction of weapons and ammunition.
"It is a comprehensive policy and we hope to be able to make significant strides in cleansing the tribal society of heavy weapons," Mahmood Shah said. Efforts by governments in the past to ban heavy weapons in the tribal regions had ended in total failure.
Brig Shah said administrators in their respective tribal regions were holding meeting with tribes to encourage them to sell their heavy weapons to the government. "We are working with all sincerity and determination to make the policy a success," he said.
Tribesmen in Wana agreed on Thursday to sell their heavy weapons to the government as part of an effort to keep arms out of the hands of militants, clan leaders said.
"We have decided to hand over our heavy weapons to the authorities at the market price," tribal elder Masood Khan told reporters in Wana. The government last week said it would seize the weapons if they were not sold. Members of the dominant Mehsud tribe agreed to the buy-back after holding a jirga, or tribal assembly, as the deadline for accepting the offer ended on Thursday.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/11/2005 12:17:59 AM ||
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#3
It looks like Pakistan is applying the "Bush rules", to be consistent with Afghanistan and Iraq. Next move should be to extend those rules from the Tribal territories to civilized Pakistan. (Yes, that's ironic, but how else to phrase it, considering the contrast?)
It is proving nearly impossible to stop terrorists using the internet and live television to spread their message, the Madrid anti-terrorism summit heard.
Democratic countries have little control over rapidly multiplying, new technology that knows no borders or censorship and will have to come up with imaginative answers, experts told the summit. "Last year there was some 5,000 terrorism-related, hate-spreading websites on the Internet, it is an increase of 25 percent over the year before," said US rabbi Abraham Cooper, who supervises a programme by the Simon Wiesenthal Centre tracking problematic websites. "The web has now emerged as the key battlefield, it has completely changed the picture. All developments now have the potential for global impact," he added.
Gilles Kepel, a Paris-based political scientist and expert on Islam, said the advent and the development of the Internet and its use by 24-hour Arab television stations has changed the face of the terrorist threat. "Today the Internet is more useful for a player in the Muslim world to know his way around the Internet than to have studied the Koran for 50 years. It has become the tool of power... religious and political power are in the hands of those with websites."
"It is a complex phenomenon in which the media are playing a central role indeed," the US-based sociologist Mark Juergensmeyer, author of Terror in the name of God said. "The media is an active target of manipulation by terrorists. When they cover events without precaution, they are serving as a megaphone for exactly what the terrorists want to happen." Keppel claimed "without the Arab television channel Al-Jazeera, there would be no al-Qaeda."
Um, no. But it certainly doesn't help.
"This does not mean that it is Al-Jazeera's fault, but that al-Qaeda operations are geared completely to spreading their message in this manner."
Duh. Every major boom is timed to get maximum exposure on New York news cycles.
Jerrold Post, a psychiatry professor at George Washington University who long served as an advisor to the CIA on profiling, said the hostage crisis at the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich was "the first act that dramatically conveyed
the power of the information age. "There, a handful of individuals were able to capture an audience of 2.5 billion people. Today, most large terrorist organisations have a vice-president of communications."In terrorist handbooks that have been seized, there are chapters on how to capture the maximum media attention-explaining what the news cycle is, saying if you want to get on to the evening news, get it out there at such or such a time."
Or what I just said.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
03/11/2005 12:17:46 AM ||
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#1
Well, now that this has been "revealed", the MSM will tone down the coverage? Onoly if there is another sensational "pregnant wife falls of husband's fishing boat while he was somewhere else" story.
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/11/2005 10:03 Comments ||
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#2
Hmm is that why THE FACTOR is advertising a UFO feature tonight?
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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#1
My reading of this may be terribly off, but I don't think so...
Obviously, this essay requires a glossary so that key terms, such as "Islamist", are perfectly clear.
Note that, as used, it means little more than a Believer. Little is said about the depth or conviction of belief or the measures that an Islamist will go to see his belief system triumph. In this I happen to agree with him, for his usage confirms my hypothesis: the Mythical Moderate Muslim is merely an untapped Islamist. A resource to be called upon when needed.
If this interpretation is accurate, consider this: "The Islamist's view of politics and state rests on their fundamental premise that Islam is not a "religion" in the sense in which we speak of Christianity and Hinduism today, i.e., a code of religious beliefs and doctrines, a mode of spiritual orientation, or a set of some outward rituals. Islam is a complete way of life; it covers the entire spectrum of human activities. Islam means total commitment and subordination of all aspects of life - individual, social, economic, political, international - to God. Hence, Islam is both religion and politics, church and state, joined in a single goal of serving God and implementing His commandments."
I, again, agree wholeheartedly with him. It must be dealt with as an ideology with one goal: domination. This is from their own mouths and writings - and there seem to be no means by which a differing ideology can peacefully coexist with Islam. It has the track record of 1400 years of aggression and violence as its primary tools for growth. It has all of the characteristics of, and should be treated as, a disease, a pathogen.
On the other side, how poorly they understand democracy, about which they write so much with such grand confidence. I suggest they also need a glossary. I think they missed the mark entirely.
Example: "There seems to have emerged a general agreement among mainstream Islamists that democracy is the spirit of the Islamic governmental system, even though they reject the philosophical assumption of Western democracy that sovereignty rests with the people. They maintain that the majority's voice can constitute the basis for legitimate exercise of political authority in an Islamic state only if it recognizes and remains within the perimeters of God's political and legal sovereignty. God's sovereignty is understood to have been represented in the Shari`ah, a systematic code of moral-legal imperatives derived from the Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. Islamists also argue that since the Qur'an commands Muslims to conduct their collective affairs through mutual consultation (shura) and grants the privilege of God's vicegerency (khalifa) to the entire Muslim community rather than to a single individual or a specific group or class of people, the selection of a Muslim ruler must be based on the free will of the Muslim masses."
This guy has mistaken sovereignty as the key definition of democracy. Pfeh - not true. Consent of the governed, with recourse and redress, is the key. Consent of a population that are free to choose, support or oppose, grant or withdraw proxy, elect or recall, anyone and any aspect of government. In missing that key point regards democracy, he misses everything else - and the rest is just poop piled very very high upon a false assumption: democracy is only about having a vote where the elected are then the officials of a sovereign govt and, it seems implied, then free to govern as they see fit. Pfeh. That's the smallest aspect of the term and has little to do with true democracy. Without consent and redress, he's described the shit-joke-democracies of the world. That ain't us, son.
The money quote is true, though I doubt he understands how clearly he has put it - at least from the POV of a true child of democracy: "In conclusion, it may also be pointed out that if democracy has to take roots in Muslim Societies, it will have to seek legitimacy from Islam, otherwise it will remain an alien idea. Democratic movements in Muslim societies that are based primarily on secular liberalism will have little, if any, prospects of reaching the Muslim masses."
Yes, you're quite right here, Dr Dingdong. Indeed, you know your own kind. Some of us do, too. But you still don't know us.
#2
"The Islamist's view of politics and state rests on their fundamental premise that Islam is not a "religion" in the sense in which we speak of Christianity and Hinduism today, i.e., a code of religious beliefs and doctrines, a mode of spiritual orientation, or a set of some outward rituals. Islam is a complete way of life;
You know what's funny is that every religion that I have ever been exposed to says the same thing about itself that it is more than a mere religion like the others, that unlike them it is a complete way of life as if this claim proved superiority.
There are much better and more valid ways to judge a religion. How about them original texts for one? When a religion goes looking for itself and its origins, what are they reading? What message are they getting from their holy books and how do they implement what they learn, how do their holy books materialize in life.
Anyone who resorts to such a claim is full of shit from the get go. Every religion is a complete way of life.
As for your comments, i have to say ditto. You said it all as far as I'm concerned. *slam and democracy boils down to fine talk without any real understanding. This is why the muslims could have the classic works of democratic Greece but could never utilize them in any potent way. They have had and I think always will have this unshakable conviction that they have nothing to learn from anyone. They have all they need to know already and it will never occur to a large portion of muslims that what they find in their faith are distorted versions of otherwise successful ideas.
There is no improving or modifying democracy. It is as the Greeks defined it and it only works for those who can admit that and practice it accordingly. That is, all citizens have not just a right to vote but the liberty to criticize, protest, debate and if necessary overturn any system of government. All that is left for us to do is to ensure that both the franchise and liberty are together extended to every free and capable soul on earth once they reach the age of discernment.
#4
peggy - And that inability to actually grasp other systems will never change, as long as they indoctrinate from birth and hold captive through threat and duress for life, crushing free thought, individualism, every form and aspect of liberty, and filling the victims (yes, I hold they are victims, but that does not change the threat or the eventual necessary response) with various blind hatreds, obvious lies, strictures against association - where they might learn they have been lied to, and any hope of ever emerging from the morass that is Islamic society.
I suggest that either we'll take their children away from them and patiently wait for 2 generations for the insanity to die out from lack of replication -- or we will be forced at some future point to decimate them en masse. That is the saddest thing I have ever come to know and accept. Unlike certain trolls, I am appalled by our lack of options and what I believe will transpire.
#5
Religion's are a way of life. But one need not belong to a church or even believe in the diety of Christ to follow a Christian lifestyle. I'd wager that many of those in America who claim to be atheists, or Jews, practice Christianity to a much greater degree than they realize. Do you attempt to live your life in accordance with the beliefs of forgiveness, charity, faith and hope? Our Nation was founded as a Christian nation and those beliefs have become incorporated into "the American Way". Jews and Christians (and others) understand that following the 10 Commandments leads to a better personal life and society than does ignoring those 10 rules. Thus, one not need to call themselves a Christian, to follow a Christian lifestyle.
Look at alcoholics in a 12 step program. No better example of Christianity in action exists in our society today. Sinners are welcome ....confess, ask for forgiveness and strive to do better (walk in Christ) each and every day. No, I'm not an alcoholic.
While this is an outstanding study...I disagree with his conclusion. What I see is that the Islamic society's are undergoing what Christian societies began undergoing with Blackwell. Or look to Rome and follow the Roman Catholic Church. And as for human rights and the rights of women, slavery existed in our society less than 100 years ago and women only got rights yesterday. Look how far we have come in such a short time. Why don't we think a similar reformation can occur in the Islamic world.
We have to understand that when you want a democracy - it means that you have to respect the rights of the majority and protect the rights of the minority. The majority of those in Islamic nations want to practice Islam as a way of life. I think it's a stretch to say they want to bow to the Caliphate any more than Catholics are willing to bow before the Pope. I think it is an insult to think that we can move beyond the rule of kings and theocrats - while maintaining our personal/religious beliefs ...but the Islamists can't. What? Is there something different in our genetic makeup that makes us superior to these little brown folk?
Nobody speaks for Muslim's anymore than one individual speaks for Christians. I was heartened by the beliefs that he claimed these leaders espoused. It just seems to me that they a few centuries behind and are just now undergoing the same enlightenment that we went through back in the 1700's.
#6
Peggy, you state, "every religion that I have ever been exposed to says the same thing about itself that it is more than a mere religion like the others, that unlike them it is a complete way of life as if this claim proved superiority."
Matthew, Mark and Luke all quote Jesus as having said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's." So the founder of Christianity was pretty clearly espousing an apolitical message. How faithful his followers have been in adhering to that message is certainly debatable. However, there is no such stumbling block for Muslims
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
03/11/2005 10:28 Comments ||
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#7
I have to go soon, so I want to say one more thing..
And that is that I believe that many people do not understand what role it is that religion plays in people's lives.
First...think of this example. Many of us believe in civil rights - but how many of us believe in the current civil rights movement?
Now..with that in mind - think of our churches/synagogues today. Just like the concept of civil rights exists without the civil rights movement - the concepts of religion exist outside the buildings that house them.
Maybe some of you don't need assistance right now - but billions of people need help in coping with death, with despair and with life in general. What religions do is they provide an anchor - a lighthouse if you will - in a dark world that helps many avoid the rocky shoals of life. They depart the lessons of the deathbed - the same kind of wisdom that you grasp after someone dies or I'd assume as you near it yourself. Upon death - you don't regret missing a pay raise or getting that cool job - but rather you regret deeper more meaningful things and you delight in the people that you love and shared your life's experience with. All the other stuff is just fluff in life. Religion - all religions - help guide people to live a better life though community, sharing and helping others in their darkest time of need.
And again - before you go off on Islam and women's rights, etc. - remember that we had slavery and women had no rights in America not so long ago.
Societies evolve just like the human species do. Islamic societies are at least 200 years behind us...but they will probably follow the same path that we did - away from kings and tyrants to a more representative form of government.
But I believe that people are basically the same. A squirrel is a squirrel and a dog is a dog and people are people. There is a reason that religions exist in EVERY single society and have for recorded history.
The US is such a land of weath and opportunity and the churches have become institutions rather than spiritual guides.
Think of religion as the AA for the sinner (ie: every man).
#10
I have nothing against most religion, especially those that promote self-improvement (i.e. guilt is usually construct vs blame which is a dead end) as I've said 30 or 40 times here on RB.
It makes you happy, gives you hope, peace of mind, and you sleep like a baby -- good for you!
#11
well..I can't disagree that as far as religion's go, Islam's cult of blame is self-destructive and not the greatest beacon to follow. But it does provide the other things that religions provide to many - a shared community that (should) help individuals in time of need.
But.. what I was really trying to get at is that what I see in this guy's writing is the same evolution of thought that European societies underwent in the 1700's. I suspect that in 200 more years, maybe the Caliphate can sit next door to the Vatican.
I don't disagree with you. What you are saying is alot like what i said about looking at the original texts to judge a religion. What i reject is the worn out argument used by every religion that it alone is a way of life while all the others are just religions blah blah blah. I just think that it is a bad way to judge a religion and everyone claims its true of them and not of others. I make it a practice to ignore it anytime anyone uses it including my own priest. In my mind, Christianity makes so much sense otherwise and he is such a good teacher otherwise that it just isn't necessary to make such a claim.
I think that the teaching that you quoted is a very valuble example of one the of major differences between Christianity and other faiths and anyone who reads the Bible can benefit from it. Christianity is different in that a space is made for a secular government in orthodox practice. Many other faiths only allow for secular government in their more liberal expressions which depart from original traditions. The more orthodox expressions some reject any notion of separation. *slam is a great example of this. Their original traditions unequivocably forbid any separation. We cannot pretend that orthodox muslims are somehow going to become liberals. It is against human nature. There will always be islamic conservatives out there going to their original sources and finding no room for true democracy with full liberty. They will also always be the ones finding justification for violence and they will always be the ones able to claim greater legitamacy because of their greater adherance to tradition.
Thus there will always be strong and bloody resistance to democracy in its best form from a great majority of muslims.
You are necessarily implying that Muslims are genetically different. I reject that.
The teaching's that they are raised with are different and yes, self-destructive - but as they collide with the 21st Century - there is nothing that makes them genetically inferior to us and thus unable to evolve towards better governments and ideas. I don't know about you - but I see it happening on a massive scale.
Look at Jessie Jackson and the civil rights movement - a total descent into the same victim, blame and shame culture that Muslim's thrive on. But look at many of today's young blacks - they already reject him and are moving forward towards a better way. That's only a span of like 40 years.
Muslim's aren't inferior beings. Like our own liberals, they have been brainwashed with inferior ideas. It doesn't mean they can't see a better way.
Call me Pollyanna - but I see in this article the same stirrings that were undertaken in our own movement away from tyrants and kings.
#14
Pollyanna it is. You're ignoring the relevant facts to focus on what makes you feel good, it seems. I wouldn't say there's anything genetic about it - it's all simple, but overwhelming, behavioral indoctrination. See #4 for my response in specifics.
When you've lived in an Islamic country for 4 or 5 years, know their world up close and personal, then you can tell me how it is and how it works and why there's a solution coming someday.
Not happening without removal of the indoctrination - and then it takes at least a full unindoctrinated generation. Same problem the Paleos face - they built a hate machine and now it's had over 2 generations to run. They're fucked, too.
#15
.com, an instructive example of what you are saying is 20th century Europe. Germany recovered from 12 years of Naziism pretty quickly. Russia still has hardly befun to recover from 72 years of communism. Once all the people who remember the good old days die, it is difficult to return to them.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
03/11/2005 11:53 Comments ||
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#16
Spot on, Mrs D. It's one of the reasons I hold out hope for the Persians. There are many parents left who remember that life under the Shah wasn't terrible for everyone - only the Islamists. They are the repository of reality which has raised the huge population bubble that thought they were going to experience democracy when they voted in Khatami. Poor souls. So much hope, promise, and potential -- crushed by the most barbaric element of totalitarianism I've ever seen: Islam as Govt.
#17
I don't need to think about it because I AGREE with you. I guess I'm just not expressing myself very well.
I acknowledge they have a hate machine that is self-destructive. What I was attempting to do was make the point that the hate machine is indoctrination - That's MY point, damn it! But as they collide with western values - they are seeing a better way - and moving towards it in much the same way that we did way back when. The scales are falling from their eyes.
As for the religion part of it - I was simply trying to say that religion fills a need that goes beyond Muslim or Christian - a need of faith and community to share life's trials. Just cause you don't need the support doesn't mean you don't ask the same questions or search for the same meanings - maybe you are stonger than others, maybe you have it all figured out ...but it doesn't change the fact that X percentage will need/want the support. Why do you begrudge them that?
It's seperate, don't you see. What religion's offer on one level in terms of support v/s the message itself. The Muslim message of shame and blame is destructive yes...but it doesn't void the other good things that come from belonging to a mosque - meeting people, being a part of something ...the message may be bad - but the people attending aren't bad by nature.
I guess I'm trying to make a point that too much emphasis is being put on what Mullahs say v/s what people do. People go to catholic churches yet still party and don't use birth control, have abortions and get divorced. What they are going to church for is differnt than getting a "how to" list they have to follow. It's much more complex and different for each individual.
We didn't get to where we are by rejecting the church at the time Blackwell came up with these ideas. It all moved forward together.
Shamers and blamers will always exist in one form or another - our own liberals, Jessie Jackson - the preacher down the block - they've always been here, they always will be here.
But the Jessie Jackson types can only exist in a socity that is closed to those who can provide a better message.
I don't know...I've digressed. I see positive things in this article in terms of being willing to move to a more representative government and away from kings. Will it happen tomorrow? No ...we're only about 300 years into it ourselves and women just got equal rights in my lifetime.
#19
It's funny, 2b. The Jews say the same thing about the Christians, but in reverse. And I imagine the atheists do, too. The virtues are human ones, not just Christian, as are the vices.
But the key difference between Islam and other religions -- on this particular topic -- is that Islam insists on governing every aspect of life for everybody, believer or not. Other religions are willing to govern every aspect of life for their believers within a non-believing society.
I have no idea how you get from me saying that it is human nature to always have a strong socially conservative element in every society to the idea that I am somehow talking about muslim genetic inferiority. I can't even comprehend the thought process.
muslim social conservatives will always be a danger because of what their holy book says. Period.
#21
2b -- Well I'll be damned. Literally, I'm sure.
I believe I made the point regards indoctrination in #4 - as I have on this topic for years. You want it? Fine, take it.
"Why do you begrudge them that?"
WTF? You mean the Muslims? If so, I stated my case quite clearly in #1, #4, and #14, IMHO. If not, well you obviously don't know me -- or my posts here over the last, what, 3 years? Sheesh.
Hey, no sweat. I read the article, thought about it for about 40 minutes, then posted what I thought was a key point the guy missed - as well as statements that we should read as harbingers of conflict. I didn't see any new light at the end of the tunnel. You did. Cool. I've stated what I've come to understand and accept, ugly warts 'n all, do with it what you will. I'm done here.
#22
Wow. Christianity's savior appeared some 2000 years ago; the Islamic savior showed up almost 700 years later. If they're only 200 years behind us, they've done well! And the internet and satellite TV (even Al Jizz, eventually) will help them catch up. Not this year, and maybe not even in this century, but I believe we will see progress toward tolerance and understanding. But some folks are gonna hafta get rubbed out, along the way.....
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/11/2005 14:22 Comments ||
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#23
The virtues are human ones, not just Christian, as are the vices. Thank you! TW, you nailed it.
peggy... point taken
.com - No, I didn't mean Muslim's, I meant "people"...your average mom and pop regardless of race/religion/nationality - but never mind. It would take a long MEGO post to explain where I was going with that. But even if I explained, my comment was a cheap shot, not reflective of your POV. Forget I said it.
#24
Yes, Bobby, Islam has more quickly had to wrestle with the idea that it isn't the only one out there. Kudos to them.
However, the world is moving even faster now than it was then, which places them even farther behind the curve. Unfortunately for them, the violence with which they are reacting to this reality, and the ability they -- and we -- have to make the whole planet go boom!, means that they don't get the same kind of time frame we did to complete their maturation process.
Unfair, I know, but I refuse to sacrifice the (literal) existence of my Jewish daughters to the Muslim learning curve.
#25
The glass half full
Look - the staunchest Islamists have grasped what our Kings grasped four hundred years ago - that without consent of the people they have no real power. Isn't that wonderful! Once democracy blooms, the Holy Man's power will be limited, like that of the Pope. But because Islam will be exposed to better ideas, it will only take a few generations for their children to shed the destructive tenets of hate and share in the blessings of goodness.
The glass half empty
Even if the Mullah's lose their grip, and democracy takes hold, it will take generations for their children to shed the indoctrination of hate. Will be fighting this battle for our lifetime and beyond.
[ranty-rant]
I hope you forgot your sarcasm tags. It's sweet, but the first half of the equation you've posed is just not true. Patently and obviously. This was the first thing that struck me about the essay - the incredible imprecision of terms such as Islamist - and said so in #1.
"the staunchest Islamists" ???
Just who do you think the staunchest Islamists are? This Dr DingDong? CP Abdullah? Khomeini? How about Zawahiri and Zarqawi? I believe they qualify as "staunch" Islamists - as it is used in 99% of the articles I've read. Only from some Islamic site would it get so futzed up as to mean any / all Muslims. Pfeh. The Islamists have grasped nothing. The Mythical Moderates are non-entities until moved to act - in support of their Muslim brothers. And you'll note that is never to stop the Islamists. The 104th Moderate Muslim Braigade has yet to clean out any terrorist Islamist groups. They're sitting on their Muslim hands because they are Muslim First. Period.
The second half of the equation does not begin until the first half is well along and Islamists do not dominate societies and impose Shari'a.
All this fuzzy-wuzzy shit is unsupported by FACTS. It may feel good, but it's just plain stupid to ignore reality - it's fantasizing. Damned dangerous. Those who wish to fantasize, please, by all means, knock yourselves out. Just do it in private and don't diasarm others who might think you know what you're talking about. This is truly dumb and dangerous drivel.
[/ranty-rant]
Technically, this is incorrect. There is no such a concept in Islam's tenents as savior (mahdi is the final warrior of submission--the concept of savior is related to a concept of free will). Prophet is the designation. Prophet 'of what' may be a good question... and Rushdie hinted: 'Satanic Verses'.
#28
My initial letter to a Serbian Lady living in the US
Dear __,
I needed to look up the explict definition of Janisarries so I went to the online encyclopedia - WikiPedia.
There is no entry for Janisarry!
Now anybody can create an entry. As a Serbian I thought you or somebody you know would like a chance to make a "proper" entry with the "proper" slant. The missing Wikipedia entry goes here.
The best non-political def that google finds is unfortunately PC-Correct and cleaned up:
2. The Spahi and the Janissary
The Ottoman Turk ruler Murad I, who succeeded to the sultanate in 1359 and ruled for thirty years, created a unique regular army about two hundred years before the Europeans started raising regular armies. The Turkish army of this period, like the armies elsewhere, was largely a militia settled on agricultural land in return for military service.
The governors of provinces governed their provinces and commanded their armies. These feudal troops were augmented by irregular unpaid infantry and cavalry who served for the plunder.
The elite of the Turkish army were regular soldiers, 'spahi' cavalry.
The 'spahi' numbered approximately 15,000, they were highly paid, and each man was responsible to recruit and train two to six other men. They were armed with a bow, a sword and a lance and did not wear any armour thereby retaining their capability of manoeuvring; with this system the Turks produced about 100,000 cavalry.
At the beginning of the fourteenth century the Turks organised regular paid infantry but this proved unsatisfactory as the Turks were not accustomed to fighting on foot and did not conform to the necessary discipline. In 1330 it was decided to recruit Christians from the conquered provinces, they were called 'yeni cheri' meaning new troops and the words corrupted to 'janisarry'.
The janissary were recruited by means of blood tax on the Christian provinces, each of which was compelled every year to surrender a quota of boys, between the ages of seven and twelve, distinguished for their strength and intelligence. In the beginning they numbered 20,000 but gradually increased and numbered 135,000 when they mutinied and were destroyed.
The Christian boys while under training received Islamic religious instruction, in 1362 AD special privileges were conferred on them and Turks started to volunteer. In peace time they received no pay, the government provided meat, bread and candles, the commanding officer provided rice, vegetables and butter.
The basic janissary organisation was an 'orta', a company 100 - 300 strong.
Each 'orta' had a red and yellow flag and set of cauldrons for boiling soup and rice; there was a tradition that the 'orta' should not lose its cauldrons in battle and these were guarded by junior officers, if they were lost all the officers were disgraced and the 'orta' was not allowed to parade at public ceremonies. The commander of the janissary was called 'aga', he had a white banner with verses of the Quran embroidered in gold, four flags and three horse tails.
The code of the janisarries was: implicit obedience of their officers;
perfect accord among themselves;
abstinence from luxury, extravagance and practices unseemly of soldiers and brave men;
observance of the religious laws and the tenets of Haji Bektask their patron 'pir';
rules regarding the death penalty, punishment only by their officers;
promotion by merit and seniority;
rules regarding pension;
the keeping of beards, marriage and indulgence in trade was not permitted;
they were required to spend their time drilling and practising the trades of war.
In 1443 they mutinied for the first time, by the middle of sixteenth century the system was corrupted because of the privileges granted to them, in the seventeenth century they started interfering in politics and even dethroned the Sultan.
In 1826, Sultan Mahmud II, obtained a 'fatwa' from Sheikh-ul-Islam that it was the religious duty of the Muslims to do military service and organised the Turkish army on the European pattern;
when the Janissaries mutinied against the new organisation they were driven to their barracks and thousands of them were killed or burnt ending the system.
With these changes in the ways of raising armies and compensating the officers and men the method of compensating military service changed to paid armies which gradually became regular armies.
SHE REPLIED:
In Serbianized version, it's called janjichari (janyichari), yes, they did it to us. It is awful. To send sons back to fight their brothers. Terrible.
But the worst thing the Turks did is torturing and killing people by putting them, alive, on a stick, butt first.
Ivo Andric, a Bosnian Serb who got a Nobel prize for literature, described that scene in his masterpiece, "The Bridge on the Drina". It's translated to English.
It was a required reading in highschool. We analyzed it in detail. People were on the verge of puking. If they made it into a movie, they should get Mel Gibson to direct. ;-))
What's still remaining in Serbian are many Turkish words.
Now after reading this, I finally understand where "ortak" (buddy) comes from.
I didn't even know that word. "Aga" is someone who has a great life, but I already knew where that comes from.
-----
So.. Somebody who has a good grasp on the full historical definition and can hold their emotions in check want to define that word?
Then to bump back to what the main thread was dancing about....
The Muslim religion outside the Shia is an anarchy. Anybody who wants to can say he is religous and declare a fatwa. No muslim can deny the validity of the fatwa. ergo: evolution may not be possible without a massive thinning of the herd. It, also, explains why the mass is quiet when the Nuts speak. The book demands that they be.
#31
3dc, anarchy or theocracy, what diff does it make? It has been my long held opinion that Islam has to go as a political ideology. Since there is no separation of political ideology and religion in Islam, then it all can be reduced to simple "Islam has to go". Anihilation of adherents of Islam is not an option--thinning may help some, but ultimately, a slow 'moderation" process won't work, there always be some usama not-bin laiden that would get ideas by simply reading Q'uran, if not in 10 years, then in 50 or 200.
I can think about it all day long, but that does not help much. It would be like moving within some sort of collapsible spiral.
#32
All these comments are the reason I don't subscribe to organized religion as it exists today. Baptists: If you don't believe our interpretation of the Old and New Testament, you can't go to heaven and will not have "Eternal Life". Islam: If you don't kill "Infidels" and follow to the letter Islamic interpretations of the Quran you will be denied Heaven and Eternal Life. Catholicsism: If you don't follow the edictcs of the Pope and Catholic Hierarchy you will be denied Heaven and Eternal Life. Blind adhereance to religious dogma with no personal responsibility makes a person damned in my opinion. What did Jesus say? Belive on me and thou shalt be saved. (King James Version, which, by the way, I have some issues with). He didn't say I have to follow all the religious edicts of some self-important "religious leader". (see my comments of two nights ago) Humans have an overiding, for the most part, self preservation instinct. This applies to the physical and spiritual. Most religious people want very much to live but know deep down they will eventually die and therefore will follow their religious teachings to insure that they have "Eternal Life". The problem with Islam is that an accolate is insured "Eternal Life" if one kills an infidel in Jihad. Islam is literally a religion of DEATH. Death achieved during killing is elevated in Islam to a gaurantee of Eternal LIfe and rewards of the flesh, eg "72 Virgins". A good life lived under Judaism or Christianity is rewarded with "Eternal Life" and Spiritual rewards. Islam defines the complete debasement of women. Like .com, I am saddened by the fact that we will probably have to kill out this cancer on Human Dignity.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
03/11/2005 19:13 Comments ||
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#33
Oh, I see. suprise..surprise people who run churches or synagogues, like our politicias, are not gods - but SHOCK human and therefore subject to the follies of the human condition......
so just because those who govern and those who preach didn't come from immaculate conceptions - how much better for you to just say a pox on them and pride yourselves in how much better you are for doing nothing but looking down your nose at those who ...for whatever reason be it ambition, pride, or goodness - make it work for others.
Don't be so smug. Just our society has turned Christ into the saccarine white bread Jesus AKA Santa Claus/ToothFairy that will grant your every wish - and you can see that is false - it doesn't mean that you are missing out on the real depth of its meaning.
It's like one of those dots pictures...just because you look at it and don't see it - doesn't mean the picture isn't visible to others.
In my opinion, it's not a genetic cause, it's not racial, and in long-view perspective, it's not even WHICH religion you are--it's about humans putting themselves in ritualistic, literalistic trances for whatever cause. That said, the episode in our time IS religion-bound--the unadaptable religion of Islam. The Islamic tradition of submission to tyranny, rapture of death, the petrification of tradition, and the stupification that comes through recitation of texts-these void people of their consciousness of the world around them. The religion has removed will, as one of you said. I would add it has replaced will with a reverence for bloodbaths.
The Enlightenment was a miracle for Western civilization-and it is what differentiates Islamic and non-Islamic societies. IS present day Islamic society WILLING to throw out worn out, failed ideas? We did it when we faced science, learning that the earth isn't flat. Are the minds of Islam fallow to such learning? (And if you think so, why? The only way I could see that is if the better part of "human" in Islam escaped its quarantine and began to think freely.)
The audacity it took us to create flying machines-does Islamic society have that daring when it comes to changing its old, worn out ideas about Jews, about women, about the glory of suicide and murder of innocents, or does it view the attempt as a provocation of God and his laws?
#37
I will acknowledge that given the description "Half Full" perhaps I am being a bit of a Pollyanna to think that the Muslim world will change overnight. Actually - half full was a bit kind to me, because the truth is that I was such a pessimist that I was pleasantly shocked to see that the Islamists listed in this article - (and yes .com, I'd say those listed by the author in this article qualify as "staunch") could grasp that they can't rule without consent of the people rather just each and every wanna be claiming they speak for god.
Its true that they plan to use it as an ends to their own means...but so what...it's an evolution for the better if they grasp that only through democratic reforms can they expect to continue to rule. Isn't that how we got rid of kings? In the long run..it will reduce the chance for a Saddam or other tyrant and allow positive evolutions to occur.
I guess where I differ is that I don't believe that these self-proclaimed Mullahs speak for the ordinary mom and dad Muslim anymore than Jessie Jackson speaks for blacks or Pat Robertson speaks for Christians or the Pope speaks for Catholics. Yes...the indoctrination of hate won't go away in our lifetime...but most people - even Muslims - are IMHO good. Let's at least acknowledge that they aren't all bad okay.
TW said she couldn't wait for the Muslim world to kill her children as they come around and get a clue- and she's right. But the WOT will continue and the Jeeha!d losers will fly like moths into the flames of war - the gene pool will improve - and as they are eliminated the world will change for the better.
#41
2b, you win the prize! The leaders of religions are human and subject to human emotions. The problem I have is sometimes these people convince themselves that their version is "Ordained by God". This applies to all religions that believe in a "God". I happen to believe we are not an "accident" but the human condition is by something's design. Jules, you and I think alike. I have yet to meet someone who looks forward to death as the end of everything. Humans have such a tight hold on life they are unwilling to relinquish it, therefore the belief in "life after death". You will find this in all "religions. I find the teachings of Jesus very closely resemble Buhddhism. Islam glorifies death and hate whearas Christianity glorifies life and love. as I said, I am saddened by the reality that we will have to kill a lot of people to guarentee the survival of the Human race. It is my personal opinion that Islam is a dead end for humanity.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
03/11/2005 20:46 Comments ||
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#42
DB, I happen to believe we are not an "accident" but the human condition is by something's design.
Well, let's just say that we are participants in that design. There are two concepts that are contained in Vedas. One is the anthropomorphized concept of "God" as is known from most of the religions, the other is more akin to modern concept of conscious multiverse where some form of impetus endowed autonomous conscious entities that exercise creativity by use of free will.
In some form, the second concept can be traced through all the religions, but it has been overlayed by the anthropomorphized God to such a degree that it is barely recognizable.
The belief in "life after death" has similar complexity. There is some core that is based on human experience. I don't believe that the origin of the concept is based on "sucha a hold on life that they are unwilling to relinquish it", people know that they would have to relinquish it, but see no reason do it prematurely. I may have personal reasons to consider this idea to be held as true. With a stipulation that I don't believe we do continue as an individual in the same mold as we are now, if so, then only for duration when this illusion is discarded as untrue.
In most organized religions, the anthropomorphization of God is also influencing the concept of life-after-death. Sort of like a tabloid explanation for a mass consumption.
In Islam, this goes into an extreme where the idea of life-after-death has been rendered into a carnal image of never-ending sexual gratification.
Apparently, that is what Mohammed was after. But he was also after power. This is projected into the Islam core in spades. The glorification of death is meant to increase power (conceptually derived from the black magic type of belief that deity has to be fed to gain favors from it) and the images of sexual conquests in paradise are a carrot that serves to reinforce the thrust of power. The clerics themselves do not readily offer their sacrifice on the altar of Mohammedanism (or that their offspring for that matter). It is for the others to internalize these concepts. If the glorification of death was truly the basic tenent of the religion, we would have no problem with Islam today--they will be all gone to see their maker--Jim Jones/Heavens Gate style.
I am saddened by the reality that we will have to kill a lot of people to guarentee the survival of the Human race.
Maybe not. All we need to do is to render the religion invalid. The chances that we can make atheist of muslims are nil. Therefore, we need to find a way how to replace Islam with something that incorporates basic human values derived from the golden rule that "do unto others as you wish them do unto you". It has to be a sudden, watershed event for it to work, else it would resurface again.
#43
well..I'm all alone here...but look at Afghanistan. They seem to be able to handle it. I have faith that the Muslim people, despite being given a religion that hinders them by encouraging them to wallow in victimimization, shame and blame ..rather than forgivenss. People are people. It's as crazy to paint a brush across all the people of the Muslim world with the crazy Muslim brush as it is to paint all Americans as automatron Christians. There are crazy wacky jihadis and there are billions of good people.
Remember there are billions of them. I'm not sure that the majority of them are that much worse off than the French or our own shame/blame/victimization liberals. I think, given democracy, they will come around just fine.
#44
and one last thought for those of you so quick to blame religion for all the worlds ills. Communism managed to excise organized religion. How many people did communism kill?
The kind of people who whip up jihadi's or commrades to kill are the same.
#45
2b, re #43, if you address moi, I think you've misread what I am saying.
re #43, communism is another form of organized religion. It has its specific characteristics that may seem to be antireligious, but the modus operandi is at par with organized religions. Cult of personality replaces a deity (an anthropomorphized God).
#46
well...ok...I agree with you about that. But that kind of gets back to my point that need for religion, like government, is a part of the human condition. Isolate humans on a desert island and they will create a religion to help explain that which we can not understand....as well as a government. It's just that for both of those things - some ideas work much better than others.
I certainly hope 2b and I are correct not ALL muslims will hafta be killed so we can live in peace, 'cuz if we're wrong, and they ALL hafta go, it sounds like Armeggedon to me!
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/12/2005 0:01 Comments ||
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday he expected armed factions to agree on a formal cease-fire next week, as Israel and Egypt neared an agreement on the deployment of Egyptian troops along the Gaza border once Israel withdraws. "There are no radical differences and the Cairo dialogue should expect to crown efforts that are under way with the declaration of an agreement," Abbas said of talks between the Palestinian factions to be held in the Egyptian capital next Tuesday. The meeting had been delayed after an Islamic Jihad militant blew himself up outside a Tel Aviv nightclub last month, jeopardizing a truce declared by Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon at a Middle East summit in Egypt.
Echoing other Palestinian Authority (PA) officials, Abbas slammed Israel for dragging its feet over enacting confidence-building gestures that Sharon promised at the summit in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh. The Israeli premier has pledged to release 900 Palestinian prisoners and transfer to the PA security control in five West Bank towns: Ramallah, Bethlehem, Qalqiliya, Tulkarem and Jericho. But two rounds of talks on ceding control of Jericho ended in deadlock on Wednesday, with Palestinian officials accusing Israeli commanders of refusing to relinquish control of checkpoints and of the wider area. "We did not reach an agreement due to [Israel's] prevarications," said Abbas, also condemning Israel's killing of an Islamic Jihad militant on Thursday in the northern West Bank, wanted in connection with the Tel Aviv attack.
"Although the Authority has made a 100-percent effort, inevitably it cannot be 100 percent successful," said Abbas, hitting back at Israeli criticism that the Palestinians had not done enough to rein in militants and halt attacks. The Palestinian president also stressed the urgency of follow-up talks with Sharon. "We must meet. Whether at his place or ours, is of no importance," he told a Gaza City news conference.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
"Although the Authority has made a 100-percent effort,..
#2
That does seem to be the problem with training and equiping a bunch of terrorist thugs, don't it? They hardly ever stop being thugs and just go away when you're done using them. They tend to stick around and shit in your punchbowl...
#3
Need an institution that can put the thugs to work for the Paleo society...like a Palestinian Authority IRS
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/11/2005 11:09 Comments ||
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#4
the term 100% effort is aimed at Israel - over the years, when the Israelis asked for a crackdown, Arafat and apologists would say Pals couldnt - Israels response was "we dont expect 100% results, we do expect 100% effort"
It seems to me has effort has been far greater than under Arafat, though less than 100%.
TEL AVIV — Israel plans to terminate employment opportunities for Palestinians by 2008.
Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Moshe Ya'alon said Israel no longer maintains a policy of encouraging Palestinian employment. Ya'alon said the government has been phasing out the number of jobs available to Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip in Israel. By 2008, Israel would institute a complete ban on the employment of Palestinians, Middle East Newsline reported. The government can ban Palestinians from entering Israel and requires entry and work permits.
"The goal is to stop Palestinians from working in Israel by 2008," Ya'alon told the Low-Intensity Conflict warfare counter-terrorism [LIC-2005] conference on Tuesday.
Ya'alon said Israel has been encouraging Western and other donor nations to help the Palestinian Authority create jobs in an effort to end its dependence on the Jewish state. He said the new policy no longer regards a peace agreement with the PA as resulting in security. "In September 2000, 150,000 Palestinians worked in Israel," Ya'alon said. "This is no longer the case."
In a review of Israel's counter-insurgency policy, Ya'alon said the PA has failed to crack down on Palestinian insurgency groups. He called on the international community to hold the Palestinian leadership responsible for attacks against Israel — even if those strikes are financed by foreign countries. "The issue of responsibility and accountability should be emphasized, without allowing them to escape with excuses," Ya'alon said.
They're Paleos: you expect them to be responsible?
Ya'alon said the PA has demonstrated its security capabilities. He said PA police and security forces deployed 18 battalions in the Gaza Strip within a few days. The PA has not matched this achievement in the West Bank. "We have allowed them to deploy in the West Bank," Ya'alon said. "But so far they do this too slowly and not effectively."
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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The Hamas Movement wouldn't honor a formal truce in case Israel didn't meet the Palestinian resistance factions' terms atop of which came the release of all Palestinian captives locked up in the Israeli infamous prisons, said Sami Abu Zuhri, Hamas' media spokesman in the Gaza Strip. "We will go to Cairo and listen to the proposals then we will adopt our position accordingly," he added, commenting on the inter-Palestinian dialogue to be held soon in Cairo.
The Hamas' leader warned that the calming down currently observed by the Palestinian resistance groups wouldn't continue in the event the Israeli occupation didn't meet those groups' conditions. In response to the remarks voiced by the PA national security counselor Jibril Rejoub that the Palestinian resistance groups were ready to honor the ceasefire in the green line, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, Abu Zuhri noted, " Rejoub's utterances are incorrect, as he was only speaking in his name and that of Fatah Movement. He has no right to speak on behalf of all Palestinian factions."
This article starring:
JIBRIL REJUB
Fatah Movement
SAMI ABU ZUHRI
Hamas
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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#1
Something needs to be done about this little "problem". If the Paleos can't speak with ONE voice, then it does Israel no good to conduct talks, release prisoners, and whatnot. The IDF should go on back to hunting down and killing terrorist group leadership until the Paleos finally decide to play the game as it's supposed to be played, not how THEY want to play it.
#3
These pinheads keep thinking they're in the position to make demands.
It's said that one definition of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over while thinking every time that the outcome will be different....
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood ||
03/11/2005 2:26 Comments ||
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#4
One demand that wasn't articulated but was commonly understood, what that as a condition for a truce, all joooooos must evacuate the land between Jordan and the Med. sea.
#5
Ya know... Islam isn't the only warrior religion that ever was... Perhaps Odin and Thor and some Thuggies should have a talk with Allan and arrange a PPV bout?
Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin lashed out at critics of Iraq's record on civil liberties, reminding detractors that the country was far better off now than under Saddam Hussein. Named minister in April 2004, after his predecessor resigned during the first U.S. offensive on Fallujah, Amin defended government conduct since July when the U.S. occupation was officially dissolved.
It is a tall burden. Fighting insurgency, interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi declared emergency law on the eve of the second U.S. assault on the rebel bastion of Fallujah in November. The state of emergency, which has been in effect ever since, authorizes special 24-hour courts for issuing warrants and gives the prime minister the authority to restrict movement in Iraq. The interim government came under fire in January when the international rights watchdog Human Rights Watch released a report, criticizing the country's police for abusing detainees. The U.S. State Department revived those concerns in its annual human rights report released this month.
Stirring further controversy, the Iraqi government has started airing nightly confessions of detainees on state television. The practice has raised questions about protecting detainees' rights. But the minister bristles: "We are in an extraordinary security situation." He says the footage also has "an educational side" in that it dissuades some from joining the resistance. Amin disparaged the arrested men. "They are men who kill for $10 or $100. They use the name of Islam and they are drug addicts and alcoholics." He argues that the nightly program has proven that Iraqi forces are getting the job done. He added: "There is more cooperation between society and the security forces. It also shows the security forces are doing something."
Grilled about the refusal to let Saddam Hussein and his top 11 cronies, under U.S. guard in Baghdad, have family visits, he turns combative. "The family of the disappeared, can they visit with their relatives?" Amin asked. "It is the Iraqi government's decision not to authorize these visits for security reasons." Amin predicts Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid will be the next old-regime member hauled before Iraq's special tribunal. He will probably be brought to court for the 1988 gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja that killed 5,000 people and crimes in the Shiite south, Amin said. In late February, Saddam's half-brother Barzan, ex-Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan and two other Baath officials were formally charged for the murder of villagers after an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein in 1982. Despite the contentious points, Amin said Iraqis enjoyed more freedom today than they ever did under Saddam Hussein. "More than 110 political groups participated in the election [last month] ... more than 200 newspapers, 20 local television channels opened. There is freedom of expression.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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One 16-year-old boy said insurgents forced him to shoot two policemen. Another Iraqi who said his mother was a pimp recalled how he had to rape and kill two university students. The televised accounts - which the government insists are confessions obtained without any duress - are part of a campaign to scare Iraqis away from joining a raging insurgency. With alarming tales broadcast on state-run Iraqiya television, the government hopes to gain the upper hand in a propaganda war against insurgents. The programme began several weeks ago by featuring Iraqi men who said they trained in Syria to carry out terrorist attacks in Iraq. Damascus denies supporting guerrillas in Iraq.
Now Iraqiya is broadcasting stories of ordinary Iraqis who say they were paid a few hundred dollars to kill and rape - and who now say they regret getting caught up in the insurgency. It is not possible to verify the authenticity of their tales. In the latest installment, a group of grim-faced Iraqis sit near a wall. Each one is interrogated by the aggressive host, whose face never appears on camera. "You are a former policeman aren't you? Say it. Say you left an honourable job for a bad one," the host yells at one of the men being questioned. Two of the Iraqi suspects had bruises on their faces. Interior Ministry spokesman Sabah Kathim said the interrogations were legitimate. "There is no doubt that the interrogations were not conducted under duress. They are straightforward just as you see them on television," he said.
Most of the men said they used the money gained from insurgents to drink alcohol, a practice increasingly frowned upon in a country that has become more religious since the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003. "So you say you are fighting Jihad (holy war) and yet you drink," said the host. Most of the men said they had menial jobs. One father of 10 who said he killed for the insurgents was an intelligence officer under Saddam. Another said his name was Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
"a raging insurgency"
I have those, sometimes. I figure someone will describe the prose of this story as turgid, too. Can tumescent and distended be far behind?
Iraq's clergy-backed United Iraqi Alliance and a Kurdish coalition have struck a deal that will allow a new government to be named when the National Assembly convenes next week, officials in both political groups said Thursday. The Shiite-Kurdish deal calls on the government to begin discussion on the return of about 100,000 Kurds to the oil-rich northern city of Kirkuk and talks about redrawing existing Kurdish regions to include the city in Iraq's new constitution. It also gives the Kurds just one major Cabinet post - one less than they demanded - in return for making one of their leaders, Jalal Talabani, Iraq's first-ever Kurdish president. One ministry will go to the country's Sunni Arab minority. The Kurds agreed to back conservative Islamic Daawa party leader Ibrahim al-Jaafari for prime minister. As part of the deal, any land agreement will be incorporated into the country's new constitution, which must be drafted by mid-August and approved by referendum two months later.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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Let the Sunni cry over this..BAAWWW BAAWWW BAAWWW
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Thursday that cross-border movement of terrorists rebels from Pakistan-administered Kashmir to the Indian zone of the Himalayan region dropped by 60 percent last year. "We are moving forward (on the peace process with Pakistan),"Â Singh told India's parliament. "The infiltration level has come down by more than 60 percent in 2004."
According to Indian intelligence sources in Kashmir, between 500 and 600 terrorists rebels crossed from Pakistan-administered Kashmir into the Indian zone in 2004, compared with between 1,200 and 1,300 in 2003. The sources attributed the drop to fencing by the Indian army of the 760-kilometre (472-mile) Line of Control, the de facto border dividing India and Pakistan in Kashmir, as well as to the deployment of Israeli-made sensors which pick up movements of rebels in the dark.
Fence + sensors really do work, how 'bout that.
So far this year there have been only 10 to 15 infiltrations by terrorists guerrillas, the sources said. The number traditionally falls in winter, and this year has seen the worst snowfalls in two decades in parts of Kashmir.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Pakistan's disgraced nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan gave Iran centrifuges, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed admitted yesterday, but insisted the government had nothing to do with this.
"No, no! Cerainly not!"
It was the first time the Pakistani government has admitted that Qadeer actually gave material to Iran, though they have said in the past that his criminal group sold technology and blueprints to several countries. "Dr. Abdul Qadeer gave some centrifuges to Iran," Sheikh Rashid told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "He helped Iran in his personal capacity, and the Pakistan government had nothing to do with it." Sheikh Rashid originally made the comments at a seminar on "Political Reconciliation — Need of The Hour" organized by Mir Khalilur Rehman Memorial Society here, in which he stuck by Pakistan's insistence that despite his crimes, Qadeer would never be handed over to a third country for prosecution. "I support the idea that the government should tell the people about these sensitive matters," Sheikh Rashid said in a speech at the seminar. "I am not a spokesman for a cowardly nation. Yes, we supplied Iran the centrifuge system. Yes, Dr. Qadeer gave Iran this technology. But we are not going to hand over Dr. Qadeer to any one. We will not."
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Of course everyone has surmised this - and more. That the truth dribbles out over time does not ameliorate the facts.
Khan should be fucking dead - and PakiWakiLand is, indeed, a cowardly "nation". Implode, bitch, implode.
MMA leaders announced holding a protest demonstration outside Parliament during the next stage of their protest. They also announced holding protest sit-ins outside all district passport offices in the country. They denounced the government's decision of removing the religion column from the passport. They said that a sweeping movement would be launched to remove from power the removers of the religion column. The protesters carried placards and banners inscribed with slogans such as "down with Musharraf," "amendment in blasphemy law not acceptable," "reintroduce religion column in passport," "down with American agents," and "we don't accept the Aga Khan Education Board". The MMA chief said the faithful will not spare any sacrifice in the way of protecting their primitive state Hudood laws, Islamic identity of the country and its defence. He said a country-wide strike call will be announced on March 10 after consulting traders and transporters.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Plain nuts. Why is this "religion" thing on a passport so importent? Someone not going to get their share of dates if they don't have it? Any member of the MMA ought to be considered a prospective target for some fatal type of attention from someone.
#2
They're afraid that the guys they've tagged as infidels -- Qadianis, Ismailis, that sort of riff-raff -- will go to Mecca pretending to be good Moose limbs and then the Kaaba won't work anymore.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 11:19 Comments ||
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#3
was addressed by the usual suspects MMA President Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Secretary General Maulana Fazlur Rahman, Liaqat Baloch, Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Haideri, Maulana Allah Wasaya, Dr. Abul Khair Muhammad Zubair, Maulana Hamidul Haq, Qari Gul Rahman, Allama Ibtisam Elahi Zaheer and Allama Jalil Naqvi
so many all in one place - too bad there are genooine civilians nearby.
KATHMANDU - Eight Nepali political leaders who were detained last month after King Gyanendra seized power and declared a state of emergency have been released, an official said on Thursday. Their release comes days after Nepal's Foreign Minister, Ramesh Nath Pandey, held talks with his Indian counterpart and assured New Delhi that the king planned to revoke some of the tough emergency measures he has imposed.
Among those freed was Prakash Sharan Mahat, a junior foreign minister in the government sacked by Gyanendra on Feb. 1, said Baman Prasad Neupane, Kathmandu's district administrator. "We released about eight people yesterday (Wednesday)," Neupane told Reuters.
Party officials said key leaders remained under house arrest and hundreds of others were in detention. Government officials have not given numbers of those in custody and Neupane did not say if more prisoners would be released. About two-dozen people detained after the king suspended civil liberties have been freed so far.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 ||
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The authorities of the Rapid Action Battalion have decided to enact a separate act within a month to regulate the elite force. Once enacted, the law will empower the authorities to directly try and punish aberrant RAB members directly, said a high official on Thursday.
So, is a 'cross-fire' incident aberrant or SOP?
The decision was taken at a meeting at the RAB headquarters Wednesday with its director general, Md Anwarul Iqbal, in the chair. The meeting decided to prepare profiles of the godfathers, both political and non-political, who were patronising heinous crimes, including bomb explosion, arms and drugs smuggling and trading, and land grabbing across the country. According to sources, the officials also laid emphasis on gearing up their independent intelligence activities. The meeting also decided to launch an anti-drugs drive across the country soon.
In recent days, 127 corrupt RAB officials were sent back to their parent organisation and punished according to the rules and regulations of their respective forces. The sources also said the RAB also decided to establish a training school. 'Already we have taken over the Army Commando Battalion office in Gazipur in this regard,' said a sources. Besides, formation of three more battalions, and ICT and MIS directorate in the headquarters, would be implemented soon, the source said.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/11/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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I've seen reports of a few RAB officers busted for extortion and such. This looks like they are setting up their own Internal Affairs division.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/11/2005 8:23 Comments ||
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#2
The meeting decided to prepare profiles of the godfathers, both political and non-political, who were patronising heinous crimes, including bomb explosion, arms and drugs smuggling and trading, and land grabbing across the country.
Sounds to me like they're making a list of their next crossfire contestants. No lack of these stories anytime soon.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The Sixth Bench of the Criminal Court Wednesday held its first session to look into a State Security Case No. 3/2005 filed against Kuwaiti 
The detention renewal judge Wednesday renewed the detention of 13 suspects, including a woman, who have been arrested in connection with the terrorist acts in 
Relatives of 
Al-Qaeda's frontman in Iraq, 
The changes of the past year are etched on Zahira Obaya's pretty face. She was 21 years old when she boarded a commuter train on her way to work last March 11. When the bombs exploded a few minutes later, her face was almost completely destroyed, and today, a piece of gauze covers her missing eye. "There is no justification for what they did," she says. "But I think I can understand how the war, the killings, would create that kind of hatred."
US President George W Bush sent a message of condolences to the Spanish people on the eve of the anniversary of the country's worst terrorist attacks. But Bush sent the message to the Spanish media, apparently bypassing the Spanish Socialist government of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. Bush and Zapatero have not enjoyed the best of relations 
The European Parliament branded Lebanon's 
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan proposed the creation of a comprehensive treaty on terrorism Thursday, denouncing attacks that target civilians and arguing that no political grievance justifies killing the innocent. Speaking at an international conference on terrorism, Annan said prevention is the best counterterrorism strategy, though he stressed that human rights and the rule of law must always be respected.
Israel's military has been preparing for the increasing prospect of a war with Syria in a confrontation expected to include Iran and Hizbullah. The General Staff has discussed an assessment by the military's Northern Command of an emerging threat from Syria and 
Iran's foreign minister has told a Bosnian newspaper that if Washington decides to attack Iran it will be a nightmare for the United States. "If America decides to attack Iran, they will make a big mistake. It will be a nightmare for them," 
Pro- and anti-Syrian demonstrations have jolted Lebanon since the Feb. 14 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, which the opposition has blamed on the Lebanese government and its Syrian backers. Both deny involvement. About 2,000 people showed up for the pro-Syrian demonstration in Gaza, including about 1,500 masked men and some 500 supporters who took to the streets after Friday prayers. The demonstrators carried effigies of US President George W. Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon with the caption, "you have no place here." Demonstrators waved Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese flags tied together, and burned two Israeli and two US flags. The rally followed a demonstration in Beirut on Tuesday by the Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah that drew hundreds of thousands in a show of support for Syria's presence.
It is proving nearly impossible to stop terrorists using the internet and live television to spread their message, the Madrid anti-terrorism summit heard.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday he expected armed factions to agree on a formal cease-fire next week, as Israel and Egypt neared an agreement on the deployment of Egyptian troops along the Gaza border once Israel withdraws. "There are no radical differences and the Cairo dialogue should expect to crown efforts that are under way with the declaration of an agreement," Abbas said of talks between the Palestinian factions to be held in the Egyptian capital next Tuesday. The meeting had been delayed after an 
The Hamas Movement wouldn't honor a formal truce in case Israel didn't meet the Palestinian resistance factions' terms atop of which came the release of all Palestinian captives locked up in the Israeli infamous prisons, said 
One 16-year-old boy said insurgents forced him to shoot two policemen. Another Iraqi who said his mother was a pimp recalled how he had to rape and kill two university students. The televised accounts - which the government insists are confessions obtained without any duress - are part of a campaign to scare Iraqis away from joining a raging insurgency. With alarming tales broadcast on state-run Iraqiya television, the government hopes to gain the upper hand in a propaganda war against insurgents. The programme began several weeks ago by featuring Iraqi men who said they trained in Syria to carry out terrorist attacks in Iraq. Damascus denies supporting guerrillas in Iraq.
Iraq's clergy-backed United Iraqi Alliance and a Kurdish coalition have struck a deal that will allow a new government to be named when the National Assembly convenes next week, officials in both political groups said Thursday. The Shiite-Kurdish deal calls on the government to begin discussion on the return of about 100,000 Kurds to the oil-rich northern city of Kirkuk and talks about redrawing existing Kurdish regions to include the city in Iraq's new constitution. It also gives the Kurds just one major Cabinet post - one less than they demanded - in return for making one of their leaders, 
Pakistan's disgraced nuclear scientist 
The 
KATHMANDU - Eight Nepali political leaders who were detained last month after King Gyanendra seized power and declared a state of emergency have been released, an official said on Thursday. Their release comes days after Nepal's Foreign Minister, Ramesh Nath Pandey, held talks with his Indian counterpart and assured New Delhi that the king planned to revoke some of the tough emergency measures he has imposed.
The authorities of the Rapid Action Battalion have decided to enact a separate act within a month to regulate the elite force. Once enacted, the law will empower the authorities to directly try and punish aberrant RAB members directly, said a high official on Thursday. 
