Hi there, !
Today Wed 10/26/2005 Tue 10/25/2005 Mon 10/24/2005 Sun 10/23/2005 Sat 10/22/2005 Fri 10/21/2005 Thu 10/20/2005 Archives
Rantburg
533595 articles and 1861723 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 76 articles and 275 comments as of 16:14.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area: WoT Operations    Non-WoT    Opinion           
Islamist named in Mehlis report held
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 2: WoT Background
0 [1] 
6 00:00 Red Dog [1] 
2 00:00 mmurray821 [4] 
4 00:00 Sock Puppet O´ Doom [3] 
3 00:00 Red Dog [3] 
7 00:00 Anonymoose [8] 
0 [] 
8 00:00 Danielle [1] 
1 00:00 3dc [1] 
4 00:00 Jackal [2] 
15 00:00 Zenster [4] 
4 00:00 Edward Yee [] 
7 00:00 RWV [2] 
4 00:00 Shep UK [] 
3 00:00 49 pan [1] 
3 00:00 49 pan [] 
1 00:00 Zenster [4] 
1 00:00 Bobby [7] 
0 [2] 
10 00:00 SC88 [1] 
11 00:00 Shipman [] 
20 00:00 AzCat [2] 
2 00:00 Zenster [1] 
0 [1] 
3 00:00 Zenster [1] 
5 00:00 bk [] 
2 00:00 Sock Puppet O´ Doom [6] 
0 [4] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
0 [9]
3 00:00 Jackal [3]
8 00:00 NotMike Moore [2]
5 00:00 The Bleeding Panzerschreck [3]
28 00:00 Zenster [2]
2 00:00 Seafarious [2]
1 00:00 49 pan [1]
2 00:00 Shipman [1]
0 [4]
6 00:00 trailing wife [3]
0 [2]
0 [2]
1 00:00 .com [1]
1 00:00 Shipman [1]
3 00:00 Bobby [5]
0 [3]
7 00:00 Zenster [1]
2 00:00 Jackal [2]
0 [4]
0 [2]
2 00:00 Frank G [3]
0 [3]
2 00:00 Frank G []
0 [6]
10 00:00 Matt [7]
1 00:00 Frank G [7]
2 00:00 raptor [4]
0 [7]
6 00:00 gromky [5]
Page 3: Non-WoT
0 [3]
4 00:00 Barbara Skolaut [2]
0 [2]
2 00:00 gromky [1]
12 00:00 Thresh Fligum4577 [2]
3 00:00 Barbara Skolaut []
3 00:00 Barbara Skolaut [2]
0 [1]
7 00:00 Barbara Skolaut [2]
5 00:00 The Lost Panzer Unit [5]
5 00:00 Shipman [2]
0 [1]
1 00:00 3dc [1]
Page 4: Opinion
5 00:00 Anonymoose [2]
1 00:00 Zenster [2]
2 00:00 CrazyFool [1]
0 [2]
0 []
7 00:00 Phil Fraering [1]
Arabia
Over 10,000 Saudi Students US- Bound
Posted by: tipper || 10/23/2005 13:13 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Albert Einstein defined insanity as repeating the same experiment while expecting a different result. I think the USA has truely lost its mind.
Posted by: SR-71 || 10/23/2005 13:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Have the Saudis managed to correct all the text books and state sponsored television programming that contain anti-American propaganda? No? Then screw them and the camel they rode in on. Twice.

It is no longer a matter of "those who do not learn from history ...". It is now a matter of those who steadfastly refuse to learn from history. Willful ignorance is one of the single greatest intellectual crimes. If this administration is walking on eggshells with the Saudis, there is little hope for the rest of our Middle East policy.

This festering inability to connect the dots between 9-11 and Saudi Arabia represents one of America's greatest failures of State in recent history. We have just admitted another 10,000 potential Mohammed Attas onto our soil. I weep for my country.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 13:51 Comments || Top||

#3  the number of applicants who hope to attend US universities has reached 15,000 thousand, with the majority studying for B.A degrees.

Bachelor of Arts? Subjects like Medieval French Literature or History of Mathematics? With a Senior Thesis topic of literary analysis of the lyrics of 1968-1972 Top Ten Rock songs? I worry much more about B.S. candidates, whose professors require them to get the right answer in a way that won't cause something to accidently poison a city, and a logically explicable personal opinion can't change the outcome.
Posted by: trailing wife || 10/23/2005 14:03 Comments || Top||

#4  My grandfather used to describe three types of ignorance.

Simple ignorance: you don't know. The most common and forgiveable type.

Compound ignorance: you don't know that you don't know. A much more dangerous situation.

Medievil ignorance: you know you don't know, and you don't care.

Where we appear to have come to in our country. PS gone wild.
Posted by: SR-71 || 10/23/2005 15:34 Comments || Top||

#5  Old Arabic Saying:

Happy is he who knows and knows that he knows.

Less happier, though wise, is he who does not know and knows that he does not know.

But preserve us from the fool of ignorance who does not know and does not know that he does not know.

Another version:

He who does not know and does not know that he does not know is a fool, shun him.

He who does not know and knows that he does not know is a child, teach him.

He who knows and does not know that he knows is asleep, wake him.

He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man, follow him.

I learned both versions of this saying back in high school. How have these simple concepts eluded our politicians and electorate alike?
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 15:53 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe Luther, SMU, Trinity and other Christian schools should offer full scholarships and sic some aggressive campus ministries on them.
Posted by: Danielle || 10/23/2005 16:30 Comments || Top||

#7  I think we take the long view. That is, the vast majority of these students are legitimate. They will come to the US and be exposed to all sorts of influences they couldn't find at home. Democracy, liberty, no slavery, fairness, a lack of corruption, empowered women, etc., etc.

They will return to Arabia no longer able to embrace the injustice they have been awakened to. They may not change it, but they will be far less inclined to support it, or oppose its being changed. They will also learn that Americans as a people are not fundamentalist Xtians, bent on conquering and enslaving Moslems.

The few who come over planning mischief will be monitored, and dossiered for future reference in ways they wouldn't have been had they stayed home. By networking them to all their associates, we create a database that allows us to wipe out whole networks of baddies.

Certainly we expose ourselves to danger in allowing Saudis into our country. But what we hazard to gain in the long run not only benefits their nation, but improves our long-term security as well.

World War II taught us that isolationism is no longer a valid foreign policy, despite what Pat Buchanan thinks. It just no longer works in a world with ballistic missiles, extensive international trade, and linkages with everything we do in every corner of the planet.

The best defense we can ever hope for is to spread real democracy around the globe. Democracy and freedom are anti-ethical to everything terrorists stand for.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/23/2005 19:05 Comments || Top||


Prince Miqren appointed Head of Saudi Intelligence
The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz has issued three royal decrees: Accordingly, Prince Saud bin Fahd bin Abdulaziz, the Vice-President of the General Intelligence, has been relieved from his post at his request. Meanwhile, Prince Meqrin bin Abdulaziz has been appointed as the President of the General Intelligence at the rank of a minister. On the other hand, Prince Abdulaziz bin Majed bin Abdulaziz has been appointed as the Governor of the Madinah region at the rank of a minister.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:


Britain
Leaked paper sez UK counter-terrorism strategy is failing
THE government’s counterterrorism strategy is failing, according to a leaked paper by the prime minister’s delivery unit, which was set up to ensure policies work effectively.
That's because you're fighting SPECTRE and you've got no 007...
In an indictment of Labour’s war on terror, the confidential document says that key policies designed to prevent Al-Qaeda attacks and stop terrorism taking root in Britain are “immature” and “disjointed”. Others, it adds, are unrelated to the “real world” and show no sign of making progress.
So somebody's trying to dump the "multicultural understanding group hug" approach? Hope he's got another job lined up...
The paper, which formed the backbone of a presentation this month to Downing Street insiders, will be seen by some as a criticism of Charles Clarke, who as home secretary has responsibility for running much of Britain’s counterterrorism effort. It suggests that a possible solution to the problem would be to appoint a new minister in the Cabinet Office charged with responsibility for delivering an effective counterterrorism strategy.
A bureaucratic solution? Just fooking brilliant. Here I was thinking in terms of fighting the enemy, identifying the key players, issuing death warrants, and then hunting bad guyz down and bumping them off. Silly me.
The Downing Street leak is a critique of Project Contest, the codename for the government’s overall counterterrorism strategy. Drawn up last year in the wake of the Madrid bombings, the strategy was given added impetus by the July 7 suicide attacks in London and is designed to tie together all four key elements of Britain’s war on terror: preparedness, prevention, pursuit and protection.
If, given the evidence, you're not doing all you can to prepare for terrorist assaults, you should be voted out or even overthrown. Period. It's the job of a government to be prepared for that sort of thing, no matter how distasteful it may be. Government is more than just handing out money and jobs. The best prevention is to quietly round up potential perps — especially holy men — as soon as there's the least bit of evidence they're going to go off. If the evidence won't stand up in court, charge them with immigration offenses, or drug dealing, or jay walking, or skulking in a restricted area. In the case of holy men, you can always find porn on their computers, even if you have to put it there, which I'll bet you won't. Pursuit's fine, but you've gotta do something with them when you catch them; I suggest killing them after extracting any information they have that you don't already have. If somebody's watching, I suppose you could jug them or deport them, or deport them after jugging them until they're old and frail. All of that adds up to protection.
The document says the policy is mired in confusion, with “little effective co-ordination” and no clear leadership. It adds that there is “little confidence” in the ability of the security apparatus to tackle the problem and that “it is very difficult to demonstrate that progress has been made”.
Even if they're successful, that's still going to be difficult. Not only does a large part of the press pooh-pooh any successes, but you can't really show stacks of corpses on the teevee.
In its conclusions, the 11- page review states: “The strategy is immature. Forward planning is disjointed or has yet to occur. Accountability for delivery is weak. Real world impact is seldom measured.” The plan’s objectives are dismissed as “vague”.
Sounds like they spend all their time planning and not enough time, if any, executing.
The findings are based on interviews with dozens of officials in Whitehall charged with protecting the country from terrorist attack. Quoting a litany of their criticisms, the memo says: “Activity is not connected or coherent. Who’s in charge? We measure meetings and reports, not real world impact.”
Yep. That's the problem. My guess is that it's rooted in fear of making a mistake. Any guesses as to why that's so? Anyone? Bueller?
The paper is particularly embarrassing for Tony Blair and Clarke because vast resources have been spent on counterterrorism since the attacks of September 11, 2001. Overall spending on security will rise from £1.5 billion in 2004-5 to £2.1 billion by 2007-8. Yesterday David Davis, the shadow home secretary and contender for the Tory party leadership, said: “This document appears to be extra worrying because it appears to demonstrate major flaws in the government’s counterterrorism strategy — flaws which, if not corrected, could worsen the risk to the British public.”
Tell 'em how you're going to do it better, Dave. Otherwise, shut your fudge up, 'cuz you don't have any ideas, either.
The delivery unit was set up in 2001 under Professor Sir Michael Barber, one of Blair’s key aides. Now staffed by 40 officials under Peter Thomas, Blair’s chief adviser on delivery, it aims to ensure government policies work effectively.
I think I'd have gone with an engineer, or a cop, or a military man. Find somebody who's actually managed something.
The review suggests that much of the work across government departments has simply been a series of talking shops in which Whitehall mandarins have failed to get to grips with the reality of the terrorist threat.
Ohfergawdsake. At least enroll the guys in Project Management 101. Tell 'em about deliverables and metrics and constraints and timelines.
One of the weaknesses identified is lack of leadership in the role of security and intelligence co-ordinator, Britain’s top spymaster. He is responsible to Blair for co-ordinating security, intelligence and emergency-related matters. Sir Richard Mottram, permanent secretary at the work and pensions department, was recently appointed to take over the post.
Pensions. How appropriate.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In short, the midnight basketball league isn't working. Maybe they should try soccer next.
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2005 1:53 Comments || Top||

#2  The honesty of the assessment appears to be the sole positive in the situation. We shall see what Blair & Co, a very mixed bag of people, from all accounts, do with this. "Real world impact" will certainly be measurable since they are in the cross-hairs. Getting that mush-ballyhooed deportation policy under way would certainly be a step in the right direction.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 1:57 Comments || Top||

#3  Their problem is that they have 2 million Muslims mucking about in the country, with a sizable number of sympathizers and a significant number of actual and potential terrorists in the mix. You cannot play footsie with them, but that is what the govt is doing. We in the US have the same problem with PC, only the population percentage is not as high---yet.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2005 2:54 Comments || Top||

#4  good point thier paul, i go 10 miles from my house into southampton and its as if im walking about in pakistan, seems like i have 2 million alone up the road from me, i reackon theres nearer 4 million of em here plotting and seething, kinda like fwance
Posted by: Shep UK || 10/23/2005 4:16 Comments || Top||


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Rumsfeld given a Mongolian horse, but, whoa, there's a snag
ULAN BATOR, Mongolia — Mongolia has 131 soldiers in Iraq, and Saturday it received an official U.S. statement of gratitude from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Rumsfeld came to Ulan Bator to deliver that message personally, and, in return, he was given a Mongolian horse.

In dazzling sunlight on the grounds of the Mongolian Defense Ministry, Rumsfeld took the reins of the calm gelding and said, "I am proud to be the owner of that proud animal." He immediately announced that he would name the horse Montana because the plains and mountains that ring the Mongolian capital reminded him of that Rocky Mountain state.

Rumsfeld owns a ranch in New Mexico, which could offer a pleasant life to an expatriate horse, even one descended from the steeds that carried Genghis Khan and his successors across the steppes to conquer most of Asia in the 13th century.

But transport for Rumsfeld's gift posed a problem.

Rumsfeld is on an eight-day, around-the-world trip aboard the National Airborne Operations Center, an aircraft nicknamed the Doomsday Plane because it would be the flying command post for U.S. leaders in the case of nuclear war.

The reconfigured Boeing 747 has a secure video-teleconferencing suite, nozzles for refueling in midair and oversized computer consoles for a nuclear battle staff.

But Air Force planners apparently gave no thought to stables.

So in an act of modern horse-trading, Rumsfeld's staff said, the Pentagon offered a Mongolian herder a flashlight in ceremonial compensation for his agreement to care for the horse in his herd 100 miles from Ulan Bator, at least until Rumsfeld can return to retrieve his gift.

Although the exchange might have been highly choreographed, Mongolian defense officials said the animal belongs only to Rumsfeld.

Unless he chooses to retrieve the horse, "only the steppe winds will ride on his back," said Khasbazar Boldbat, senior officer for foreign cooperation.

Rumsfeld's visit was the first by a U.S. defense secretary to Mongolia, which annually receives $18 million in U.S. military aid.

President Bush is scheduled to visit next month.

Rumsfeld's decision to include Mongolia in a trip aimed at heavyweight negotiating in China and South Korea and with NATO defense chiefs in Lithuania shows the extent to which the Bush administration must nurture nations making even small contributions to military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

About 500 Mongolian soldiers have served in Iraq in previous rotations. Fifteen are currently in Afghanistan.

Mongolia's military is focusing on developing the expertise to serve in peacekeeping missions.

Rumsfeld met with 180 soldiers who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. In the group were two sergeants who prevented a suicide bombing at a logistics base near the Iraqi city of Hillah in February 2004.

When a truck approached the gate that they were guarding and refused to stop, they shot and killed the driver. The truck, packed with explosives, crashed and exploded outside the base. No coalition military personnel were injured.

"It's a privilege to be able to look you in the eye and say, 'Thank you,' " Rumsfeld told the Mongolian troops.

Posted by: Sherry || 10/23/2005 14:46 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pic available here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002578094_rumsfeld23.html (might be subscription)
Posted by: Sherry || 10/23/2005 14:54 Comments || Top||

#2  Far better a horse than a carpet.
Posted by: Uleager Jineper3615 || 10/23/2005 15:22 Comments || Top||

#3  "only the steppe winds will ride on his back," said Khasbazar Boldbat, senior officer for foreign cooperation.

Way Kool Sherry, THX.
Posted by: Red Dog || 10/23/2005 20:53 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
The rogue money printers of Pyongyang
Posted by: john || 10/23/2005 11:16 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Yes, funny how certain countries have so much in the way of organized crime, despite the fact that you can't even search for the word "democracy" on their branch of the internet.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 10/23/2005 12:41 Comments || Top||

#2  The North Korean counterfeiting story begins almost simultaneously with the late Shah of Iran's purchase in 1975 and 1976 of two intaglio-color-8 presses, the type then used by the U.S. Treasury to print genuine dollars, from De La Rue Giori, in Lausanne, Switzerland. These survived the Shah's overthrow by Islamic revolutionaries in 1979 and provided an industrial base for the flood of expertly crafted superdollars. Specimens first appeared in Singapore in 1983, then, a decade later, inundated Europe and the Middle and Far East...

In the summer of 1998, the U.S. Treasury refused comment when the Japanese Navy seized a North Korean ship stuffed with superdollars. The Japanese police, backed by the Tokyo field office of the U.S. Secret Service, rounded up intended distributors in Japan. Within 48 hours of the ship's seizure, officials in Tokyo and Washington had muffled the affair...

China's bitch proxy has been dumping super notes for how long!!?

I think I'll print some up then..Next move, wymins for free.
Posted by: Dire Dog || 10/23/2005 14:43 Comments || Top||

#3  You'd be in some straits if ya gets caught, Dog. :)
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 14:45 Comments || Top||

#4  The North Korean counterfeiting story begins almost simultaneously with the late Shah of Iran's purchase in 1975 and 1976 of two intaglio-color-8 presses, the type then used by the U.S. Treasury to print genuine dollars, from De La Rue Giori, in Lausanne, Switzerland. These survived the Shah's overthrow by Islamic revolutionaries in 1979 and provided an industrial base for the flood of expertly crafted superdollars.

One more reason to pound sand up Iran's @ss. As to North Korea, it's time to poison all inbound shipments of fois gras and Champagne. The Swiss are another matter altogether. Those of your with any questions about the Swiss need to review Frontline's documentary program, "Nazi Gold."
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 14:47 Comments || Top||

#5  Zenster - he buys half the production of Hennsey. That's all you need to add a slow acting RNA thingy to.
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 15:06 Comments || Top||

#6  ...he buys half the production of Hennsey. That's all you need to add a slow acting RNA thingy to.

Sadly, I doubt the French could bring themselves to actively contribute towards the downfall of a fellow socialist utopia.

In a country where tree bark, grass and cannibalism feature prominently in the general population's diet, those Hennesy bottles may as well be filled with human blood.

As with Saddam, Kim can neither die too soon nor too slowly.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 15:28 Comments || Top||

#7  "The North Korean counterfeiting story begins almost simultaneously with the late Shah of Iran's purchase in 1975 and 1976 of two intaglio-color-8 presses, the type then used by the U.S. Treasury to print genuine dollars, from De La Rue Giori, in Lausanne, Switzerland."
What the article doesn't state is that those printing presses were made exclusively by Goss Printing Company, as a good friend worked for the company for many years. The Superdollars were distributed through UK banks via Moscow, including UBS, which I believe was just tied to some of the UN procurement scandal. Who in Washington helped cover this up, when it is the Secret Service and Treasury departments that investigate? Sounds like more housecleaning is in order.
Posted by: Danielle || 10/23/2005 16:47 Comments || Top||

#8  I forgot to add that NK couriers distributed the Superdollars using diplomatic pouches through Moscow then onto Dublin. The UN probably has far more involvement in this than mentioned and why nothing was done for decades.
Posted by: Danielle || 10/23/2005 16:59 Comments || Top||


NorKie #3 Bites Big One
Yon Hyong Muk, a top aide to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, died yesterday of an "incurable disease," the North's official Korea Central News Agency said today. He was 73.

Yon was second only to Kim at North Korea's most important government agency, the National Defense Commission, and was also an alternate politburo member of the North's ruling Workers Party. He was regarded as the third-most important man in North Korea, after the reclusive leader and his right-hand man, Kim Young Nam.

Yon "remained intensely loyal to the party and devoted his all to the struggle for the victory of the revolutionary cause ? [sic] to the last moments of his life," the official North Korean news agency said. "The feats he performed for the party, the country and the people will always be remembered."

Chosun Ilbo and other South Korean newspapers reported last year that Yon had an operation for pancreatic cancer in Russia in November. His last public appearance was the Oct. 10 military parade to mark the 60th anniversary of the foundation of the Workers' Party.

Yon signed a six-point joint declaration with South Korean counterpart Prime Minister Chung Won Shik in February 1992, aimed at denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula. Yon was also present during the inter-Korean summit held between then South Korean President Kim Dae Jung and North Korea's Jong Il in June 2000 in Pyongyang.

Yon also attended a meeting between Kim Jong Il and South Korean Unification Minister Chung Dong Young in June in Pyongyang. Chung met the North Korean leader as a special envoy of President Roh Moo Hyun.
So, not enought Juche? Too much White Slag? Or time to clear the decks for Sonny Boy?
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 08:19 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "incurable disease". Lead poisoning (high velocity-type)? Probably wasn't rope burns.
Posted by: Whiskey Mike || 10/23/2005 9:26 Comments || Top||

#2  Ferrous metal insertion, repeatedly.
(Much quieter)
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 10/23/2005 10:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Pancreatic cancer pretty much is a death sentence. The story is probably straightforward.
Posted by: Eric Jablow || 10/23/2005 13:18 Comments || Top||

#4  Kim is going to be even more ronery.
Posted by: Jackal || 10/23/2005 21:47 Comments || Top||


Europe
Righting the Orange Revolution
Progress in a year, but a lot more to do. Let's hope they set a good example for the Stans to follow.


For a moment last week, Viktor Yushchenko relived the glory of the Orange Revolution when he appeared in the Mansion House in London to receive an international relations award from Queen Elizabeth II. As the Ukrainian leader accepted the honour, a smile crossed his poison-ravaged face. His wife Katya stood nearby wiping tears of pride and happiness from her eyes.

It all seemed a world away from Kiev and the harsh reality of post-revolution politics. Nearly a year after orange-clad demonstrators filled that city’s Independence Square to support his bid for the presidency, Mr Yushchenko faces daunting challenges in consolidating his victory. Much has been done. But much remains to be done.

There is no reversing last winter’s events when Mr Yushchenko forced Leonid Kuchma, the authoritarian former president, and Viktor Yanukovich, Mr Kuchma’s Russian-backed would-be successor, to concede defeat. The fear that stalked Ukraine in the Kuchma era has evaporated, allowing Ukrainians to live in political freedom.

Despite hostility from the Kremlin, which blamed the west for the Orange Revolution, Ukraine has rejuvenated ties with the US and the European Union. Ukraine’s example has also given hope to opposition parties challenging authoritarian rulers in Russia and elsewhere on former Soviet soil – including Azerbaijan, which holds parliamentary elections next month, and Kazakhstan, with presidential polls in December. In a recent FT interview, Mr Yushchenko said that after the Orange Revolution, “millions of people began to think differently about freedom, about democracy, in the whole terrain of the former Soviet Union”.

However, already some of the energy created in Ukraine by the popular revolt has been dissipated, notably in a split between the cautious Mr Yushchenko and Yulia Tymoshenko, his firebrand Orange Revolution ally. Allegations of corruption among some of the president’s closest allies – mostly businessmen who helped fund his campaign – have put Mr Yushchenko on the defensive. Trying to shore up his political base, the president has sought compromise with the survivors of the old regime, especially Kuchma-era ­business oligarchs.

Many young people who filled Independence Square a year ago feel disappointed. But for Mr Yushchenko the priority is the economy. He understands democracy can be secure only if it leads to less corruption, better government and higher ­living standards.

Just as they followed the Orange Revolution, people in other former Soviet states are keeping a close eye on the latest developments. For many, this is the real test of Ukraine’s new rulers. The same is true for the popular revolt in Georgia in 2003 and this year’s upheaval in Kyrgyzstan. But Ukraine matters most because it is the largest and the most modern of the three.

Mr Yushchenko is no radical reformer but a mild-mannered former central banker who served Mr Kuchma as prime minister before going into opposition. He is hampered by the compromise he struck to end last year’s crisis. In return for giving up power peacefully, Mr Kuchma forced on his successor constitutional reforms that will transfer much of the president’s powers to parliament. The changes will mostly take effect in March, immediately after parliamentary elections.

Mr Yushchenko admits opportunities to capitalise on the Orange Revolution have been wasted in the conflict with Ms Tymoshenko, who was finally sacked last month and replaced as prime minister by Yuri Yekhanurov, a technocrat loyal to the president. Mr Yushchenko and Ms Tymoshenko fell out over the handling of untransparent privatisations of the Kuchma era. At meetings with business leaders, he has promised to settle disputed privatisations through negotiations, not court action, with the exception of the ­egregious case of Kryvorizhstal, the flagship steel mill (see right).

Much depends on the March elections. A move to full proportional representation means the competing parties will almost certainly have to form a coalition government. Ms Tymoshenko’s supporters, and many of Mr Yushchenko’s, hope the elections will force them to reunite. But Mr Yushchenko has been extending olive branches to his former enemy, Mr Yanukovich, and courting Volodymyr Lytvyn, the parliamentary speaker, who enjoys big business backing. Whatever happens, none of the combinations seems likely to produce a coherent team of liberal reformers.

All this jockeying makes for lively democratic politics. But, as a result, Ukraine has been long on debate and short on practical progress. Economic growth has slowed from 12 per cent last year to just 2.8 per cent in the first nine months, investors hesitate, corruption remains rife and citizens have little confidence in public services. Even in foreign policy, where Mr Yushchenko has invested much effort improving ties with the international community, implementation is slow. Parliament has still to complete the modest legal changes required for joining the World Trade Organisation. Without membership, Ukraine cannot get the most out of its EU co-operation agreement. Without that, Kiev cannot realise its biggest ambition – a promise of eventual EU membership.

The conflicts also open doors for renewed involvement from Russia. President Vladimir Putin, who saw the Orange Revolution as his country’s biggest defeat since the collapse of the Soviet Union, has expressed quiet satisfaction at the arguments between Mr Yushchenko and Ms Tymoshenko. Meanwhile, Russia’s hand is strengthened by rising energy prices. Its advantage has been tempered by its reliance on Ukraine’s pipelines to export oil and gas to the west. But Moscow is expanding other export routes.

In Georgia, the situation is different. Far from reaching out to potential partners, Mikheil Saakashvili, the president, has consolidated power in an increasingly narrow circle of his close allies within his National Movement, which has a large majority in parliament. Mr Saakashvili’s team has made strides in making government more effective – a change from his predecessor, Eduard Shevardnadze, who brought Georgia to the brink of collapse. The economy is growing at a respectable pace of nearly 7 per cent this year. The separatist province of Adjara has been brought under control.

Mr Saakashvili’s greatest success has been building warm ties with US President George W. Bush, who visited in May. The support helped Georgia secure Russian agreement to vacate two military bases. US support could play an even bigger role as Mr Saakashvili tries to negotiate with the Kremlin over two separatist ethnic enclaves, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which have received protection from Russia since they split from Georgia.

However, Mr Saakashvili’s brashness has irritated EU leaders. Corruption remains pervasive, foreign investors have shied away and some former Saakashvili supporters are afraid the country could be sliding back into authoritarianism. Among them is Salome Zourabichvili, a French ex-diplomat of Georgian descent, who was sacked last week as foreign minister. She told a rally not to lose faith in Georgia’s Rose Revolution even though many of its leaders had “strayed from the road”.

In Kyrgyzstan, the revolt that forced former president Askar Akayev to flee the country in March has been followed by political turmoil. Despite ­winning a landslide victory in presidential elections in July, Kurmanbek Bakiyev has failed to restore order, with three members of parliament killed since the spring. There is no sign of a re-run of the parliamentary elections that sparked the original protests against Mr Akayev.


Even though the outcome of these three revolts is unclear, they have had a profound effect on the rest of the former Soviet Union. Opponents of authoritarian rulers from Belarus to central Asia have taken heart from the protesters, imitating their methods, slogans and colours. Mr Yushchenko says: “There is a new way of doing things: the Orange Revolution way.”

Authoritarian regimes have had to review their positions. Nurbulat Masanov, a political scientist in Kazakhstan, says: “There is now a discussion about what to do. One way will be to promote popularity by offering what people want – political stability and economic modernisation.” An example is Mol­dova, Ukraine’s poor southern neighbour, where president Vladimir Voronin, a veteran communist, is weakening ties with Moscow and making overtures to the EU.

There are other, more controversial, options, including resorting to nationalism or, in central Asia, Islamism. At the extreme, regimes can respond with violence, as happened this year in Uzbekistan where president Islam ­Karimov’s forces massacred mostly peaceful demonstrators in the eastern city of Andijan. Mr Masanov says that, while this damaged Mr Karimov’s legitimacy in the west, it strengthened it within his own regime.

In Russia, the Kremlin’s main concern is to preserve the dominance of the current elite after the 2008 presidential election. Given Russians’ respect for authority, rapid economic growth and state control of television, the defeat of the Kremlin’s candidate seems unlikely. But officials worry because they failed to predict Mr Yanukovich’s defeat in Ukraine. Mr Putin, who is personally popular among voters, with support ratings of about 70 per cent, cannot stand for a third term unless the constitution is revised. So the search is on for a candidate who can secure genuine public support. Manipulation alone is not enough. Real appeal is required.

Three other post-Soviet regimes face more immediate electoral tests – Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Belarus. Oil-rich Azerbaijan goes first on November 6 with parliamentary polls, in which the ruling party is defending an overwhelming majority. Ilham Aliyev, who took over as president in 2003 from his late father, Heydar Aliyev, a former KGB boss, is trying to assert his authority. Last week he made a pre-emptive strike. Two powerful insiders – Farhad Aliyev, the liberal economy minister, and Ali Insanov, the hardline health minister – were sacked, arrested and accused of plotting a coup.

Most opposition parties there have joined forces in a bloc named Freedom. They wear orange in imitation of Ukraine and hold rallies in defiance of government bans and rough police tactics. Mr Aliyev, who faces presidential elections only in 2008, does not seem in imminent political danger and could grow stronger as the country’s oil revenues are set to soar. But last week’s arrests were a clear sign of growing dissent within the ruling elite, which might not be easily stifled.


In Kazakhstan, president Nursultan Nazarbayev, who has held power since communist times, is expected to be voted back into office in the December poll. He has successfully combined authoritarian politics with sound economic policies. If fair ­elections were held, Mr Nazarbayev would almost certainly do well. But he is taking no chances, arresting ­opposition activists and raiding their homes and offices.

In Belarus, dictatorial president Alek­sander Lukashenko is also determined to retain power in the September 2006 election. Inspired partly by the Ukrainian example, the opposition recently chose a single presidential candidate – Alexander Milinkevich. But pressure from the secret police is relentless, with arrests of activists and independent journalists.

None of this happens in a vacuum. Russia, in particular, watches its backyard carefully and is in a better position to intervene today, with its coffers flush with oil money, than it was a decade ago. In practice, it mostly supports incumbent rulers and sees opposition groups as pro-west. With its 2008 election on the horizon, it does not want more revolts setting precedents.

The US has been increasingly outspoken in supporting democracy in the former Soviet Union, setting aside earlier concerns about upsetting allies in the war against terrorism, including Mr Putin. The EU, mindful of Russia’s role as an energy supplier, has been less assertive. But the east European new member states are pulling the union deeper into the post-Soviet space. Having intervened successfully in last year’s Ukrainian crisis, the EU is developing a louder pro-democratic voice, especially on its borders. Next month sees the start of EU-funded radio and internet news programmes for Belarus. Television follows next year.

Russian, US and EU diplomats insist they are not doomed to clash over democracy in the region. But they clashed resoundingly in Ukraine and it seems likely they will clash again.

Steel auction may be the first and last of its kind

At 11am on Monday, bidding is due to start in Ukraine’s first televised privatisation auction. On offer, with a starting price of nearly $2bn but likely to sell for much more, is Kryvorizhstal, the country’s biggest steel mill.

Among the bidders are Mittal Steel, the world’s biggest producer, and Luxembourg-based Arcelor, which has joined forces with Industrial Union of the Donbass, a Ukrainian company, in a 60-40 joint venture. There is also a dark horse in the race: Smart Group, a smaller Ukrainian steel company controlled by Vadim Novinsky, a Russian businessman. He has connections with Alisher Usmanov, a Russian steel baron, although other backers, Russian or Ukrainian, may be involved.

If the auction succeeds, as expected, it will bring Ukraine’s government much-needed money and an even more necessary morale boost. It is about more than just selling a steel mill. President Viktor Yushchenko told the FT recently: “We really want to hold a showcase tender, to convince business and Ukrainian citizens of the nation’s potential.”

Attracting foreign investment has been harder than Mr Yushchenko anticipated. He came to power amid western support and enthusiasm from western companies, which have long coveted Ukraine’s market of 47m people. But investors have had to wait longer than they expected for Mr Yushchenko to deliver economic reform and assurance that the rule of law would prevail. They were disappointed with the disputes in the government of Yulia Tymoshenko, sacked as prime minister last month. Foreign direct investment in the first half of this year came to just over $700m, about the same as in 2004.

Business people, including Russians, have higher hopes for the administration of Yuri Yekhanurov, who replaced Ms Tymoshenko. An advisory committee of foreign investors met the president last week and got the impression that he understood the mistakes of his first nine months in office. Jorge Zukoski, president of Kiev’s American Chamber of Commerce, says: “For the first time, we were dealing with a very cohesive team who were all talking from the same page.”

Mr Yushchenko’s goal is to show that everything has changed since June 2004, when Mr Kuchma arranged an auction of Kryvorizhstal with such restrictive conditions that only favoured oligarchs could bid. Viktor Pinchuk, Mr Kuchma’s son-in-law, and two businessmen linked to Viktor Yanukovich, the then prime minister, bought Kryvorizhstal for just $800m. Mr Pinchuk and his partners say the new government illegally confiscated their shares and have vowed to challenge today’s auction in any court that will give them a hearing.

The auction comes just days after Raiffeisen International, the eastern European arm of the Austrian banking group, completed its $1.03bn acquisition of Aval, Ukraine’s second-biggest bank. Other European banking groups are in advanced talks with targets including Ukrsotsbank and Ukrsibbank, the third- and fourth-largest Ukrainian banks. After receiving only $9bn in FDI since independence in 1991, Mr Yushchenko’s government appears likely to bring in several billion dollars more within a few months.

But outside steel and banking, the investment picture has improved only a little from the Kuchma era. Investors face demands for bribes and some officials still serve the interests of particular businessmen.

The auction is likely to be the first and last of its kind. Mr Yushchenko originally intended to recover and resell more companies but now pledges that privatisation disputes will be settled by negotiation with owners, not in the courts. Where necessary, the shareholders will be asked to pay extra.
Posted by: lotp || 10/23/2005 19:31 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Muslim anger at Danish cartoons, follow up
The Master Religion has its priorities set straight : never let the subhumans ridicule the Most Perfect Man ever.
The ambassadors of 10 Muslim countries have complained to the Danish prime minister about a major newspaper's cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. A letter from the ambassadors said the cartoons published in Jyllands-Posten last month showed the Prophet as a stereotypical fundamentalist. Pictorial depictions of the Prophet Muhammad are forbidden in Islam.

A Danish government spokesman said Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen was preparing a response. Danish Muslim community leaders who held talks with Mr Rasmussen in July complained about press coverage of Islam. At the time, he said he could not tell newspapers what to print - or what not to.

On Thursday, the Jyllands-Posten reported that two illustrators who produced the cartoons had received death threats.

The daily published the series of cartoons, after a writer complained that nobody dared illustrate his book about Muhammad. "We must quietly point out here that the drawings illustrated an article on the self-censorship which rules large parts of the Western world", the paper said. "Our right to say, write, photograph and draw what we want to within the framework of the law exists and must endure - unconditionally!"

The ambassadors who signed the letter to the prime minister included a number of Arab countries, Pakistan, Iran, Bosnia-Hercegovina and Indonesia. "We hope there will be understanding of Muslims' feelings about Mohammad. And we hope there will be an apology from Jyllands-Posten," Mascud Effendy Hutasuhut, counsellor at the Indonesian embassy in Denmark, told Danmarks radio.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 10/23/2005 06:40 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I am still waiting for the 911 apology and the handing over of Binny.
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 12:20 Comments || Top||

#2  Pictorial depictions of the Prophet Muhammad are forbidden in Islam.
Sawing the heads off innocent people, blowing up women & children and marrying off 12 year old girls is prohibited in civilized countries. Let us know when you progress into the 18th century, then maybe we can have a discussion.
Posted by: wrinkleneck_trout || 10/23/2005 12:47 Comments || Top||

#3  What's jihadi for "Fuck off, assholes"?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 10/23/2005 14:04 Comments || Top||

#4  A Danish government spokesman said Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen was preparing a response.

One can only hope it involves a single upthrust rigid digit. The Danes were brave enough to defy Hitler. Let's all hope they have retained their sense of rectitude.

Rhetorical question; How do you avoid offending the religious sensitivities of a culture that finds everything imaginable to be offensive?
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 14:54 Comments || Top||

#5  The answer is quite simple. Since Islam isn't a religion, it doesn't matter if they find something offensive.
Posted by: Silentbrick || 10/23/2005 17:18 Comments || Top||

#6  THE PROPHET MOHAMMED:

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/23/2005 19:11 Comments || Top||

#7  Until muslims extend respect and courtesy to other religions, they have no right to complain. Basically, I concur with Barbara Skolaut, they can FOAD.
Posted by: RWV || 10/23/2005 22:51 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
U.S. Making 'Great Progress' in Iraq; Russert Unimpressed
Sen. George Allen said Sunday that last week's vote on the Iraqi constitution shows that the U.S. is making "great progress" in the war on terror - contrary to claims of Bush administration critics who say the White House has no plan for success in Iraq.

"There has just been a monumental benchmark achieved," Allen told NBC's Meet the Press. "Now, they're still counting the votes, but it appears that the people of Iraq, in stronger numbers that even in January of this year, have come out and voted for this constitution.

The Virginia Republican noted that the Iraq constitution codifies "individual rights, men and women having freedom of expression, religious freedom, where rights are not enhanced nor diminished on account of religious beliefs." Sen. Allen said the new constitution assures that the Iraqi people will be governed under "the rule of law," noting that it "will give them a motivation [for] what they're fighting for, for themselves, for their children." "I think this is great progress and we ought to celebrate it," Allen insisted.

"Meet the Press" host Tim Russert, however, sounded unimpressed, responding to Allen's call for celebration by noting: "But there has been no weapons of mass destruction."
Posted by: Bobby || 10/23/2005 15:37 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Read the Nov. Scientific American. They consider Russert a MORON and diss him.
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 19:13 Comments || Top||

#2  Hussain was the weapon of mass destruction.
You, Russert are a weapon of mass distortion.
Posted by: mmurray821 || 10/23/2005 19:57 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
Army helps with surveillance mission along (US) border
COLUMBUS, N.M. - The U.S. Border Patrol is getting help from the U.S. Army to slow illegal immigration along New Mexico's southern border. Armored vehicles from a reconnaissance squadron based in Fort Lewis, Wash., were stationed along a 20-mile stretch of N.M. 9 between Columbus and Playas on Thursday, watching for immigrants.

Some of the vehicles with the 1st Squadron, 14th Cavalry Regiment were equipped with mounted machine guns and long-range surveillance equipment.

Border Patrol spokesman Doug Mosier said the surveillance mission isn't unusual and was planned last year. "These military resources provide more eyes and ears as force multipliers to help us with our mission," Mosier said.

The operation is the latest in a series of steps to tighten security between Deming and Lordsburg, the busiest route in New Mexico for illegal immigrants and smugglers. Other steps include the addition of more Border Patrol agents and the temporary assignment of state police officers to the Columbus area.

Members of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps have also been watching the Hatchita area this month. "We're happy to see them," Minuteman spokesman Gary Cole said of the Army troops. "We hope they're here for a long time."

As members of the National Guard and active duty military units have done in the past, the troops provide surveillance of illegal immigrants for Border Patrol agents.

Lt. Andrew Kennedy considers the mission training for the troops. He added that it frees up Border Patrol assets.

Citing security and safety concerns, Mosier declined to disclose the number of troops involved and how long the mission would last.

The operation was arranged by Joint Task Force North, a Fort Bliss, Texas-based group that coordinates military homeland security support for law enforcement agencies.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 10/23/2005 07:20 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ah, Minutemen with guns. Now you're talking walking...
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 9:10 Comments || Top||

#2  I like it
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2005 11:17 Comments || Top||

#3  MORE ARMED TROOPS PLZ..Muchos Gracias.
Posted by: Perro Rojo || 10/23/2005 16:09 Comments || Top||

#4  See Gary Cole's comment -- it's the duration of their presence that counts, not merely having some armor from the Army now.
Posted by: Edward Yee || 10/23/2005 18:01 Comments || Top||


List of foiled plots puzzling to some
A White House list of 10 terrorist plots disrupted by the United States has confused counterterrorism experts and officials, who say they cannot distinguish between the importance of some incidents on the list and others that were left off.

Intelligence officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the White House overstated the gravity of the plots by saying that they had been foiled, when most were far from ready to be executed. Others noted that the nation's color-coded threat index was not raised from yellow, or "elevated" risk of attack, to orange, or "high" risk, for most of the time covered by the incidents on the list.

The president made it "sound like well-hatched plans," said a former CIA official involved in counterterrorism during that period. "I don't think they fall into that category."

President Bush announced the list of attacks on Oct. 6, describing them as serious al Qaeda terrorist plots disrupted by the United States and its allies since Sept. 11, 2001. The document included never-before-disclosed plans to use hijacked commercial airliners to attack the East and West coasts in 2002 and 2003.

Three of the 10 plots were aimed at U.S. soil, and the government also halted five al Qaeda efforts to case possible targets or infiltrate operatives into the country.

Counterterrorism experts said they could not explain why some of the U.S. government's bigger successes did not make the list, including the thwarted attack by Richard Reid, who tried to set off explosives in his shoes aboard a transatlantic flight in December 2001, and the capture a year later of Ali Saleh Kahlah Marri, a graduate student at Bradley University in Peoria, Ill., who officials believe had ties to Sept. 11 terrorists.

"We don't know how they came to the conclusions they came to," said one counterterrorism official, who spoke anonymously for fear of angering the White House. "It's safe to say that most of the [intelligence] community doesn't think it's worth very much."

The White House said the incidents were compiled by the U.S. "intelligence community" and most had already been mentioned in public, either in media accounts or when arrests were made. A spokesman for the National Security Council, which reviewed each of the plots before the list was released, declined to say whether the incidents represent the most serious threats or explain why other incidents that required more disruptive security measures did not make the list.

"The gradations of seriousness is not something I've looked into," said Fred Jones, an NSC spokesman. The intelligence community "takes them all very seriously," he said.

Terror analysts said the list contained some plots that were clearly disrupted, such as a two-pronged 2003 plot to attack Heathrow Airport using hijacked commercial airplanes and a mortar assault on a departing plane. The idea was hatched by Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who has been in custody since 2003.

In another plot on the White House list, British authorities, with the aid of U.S. officials, arrested eight men in March 2004 who had collected ammonium nitrate fertilizer in a storage facility. The material can be used to make bombs, and police believe that the men were planning to target London buses and nightclubs.

Along with its list of 10 plots, the White House also released a list of five "casings and infiltrations." One of them involved a Baltimore man, Majid Khan, who was apparently assigned by Mohammed to collect information about gas stations, with the idea of detonating explosives in the stations' underground storage tanks.

U.S. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales declined to discuss the White House-produced list in detail or whether the Justice Department was consulted in its formation. "The fact that they're not on that list doesn't mean those other successes weren't important," Gonzales said.

The Department of Homeland Security did not respond to multiple requests for comment. During most of the domestic plots on the White House list, the threat index remained at yellow. For example, one of the newly disclosed attacks was a disrupted mid-2002 plot to use aircraft hijacked overseas to target the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

During the summer of 2002, the Department of Homeland Security did not raise the threat level. U.S. officials issued warnings about possible terrorist attacks, but none involved hijacking commercial airplanes.

That summer, the FBI issued a warning about threats to use fuel trucks to attack Jewish schools or synagogues, small airplanes to carry out suicide attacks in the United States, terrorists allegedly trying to obtain "offensive scuba diver capability," and a general warning about landmarks such as the Statue of Liberty and the Brooklyn Bridge.

"The problem with these lists is that we don't know the criteria," said Bruce Hoffman, a Rand Corp. terrorism expert. When the incidents do not correspond to elevated threat levels, "it runs the risk of 'Were we just crying wolf then?' This is animpressive compendium of actual attacks, but what about the other ones?"

One well-known series of events not on the list is the terror threat over the New Year's holiday in 2003-2004, when the U.S. government took the unprecedented step of canceling dozens of commercial airline flights from London and Paris over concerns that terrorists were targeting specific flights.

But that may be because the threat was later discounted, according to intelligence officials. A CIA contractor at the time had analyzed bar codes on al-Jazeera network videotapes and concluded that the codes could be flight numbers targeted by terrorists, former intelligence officials said.

One former official, David Stone, who served as chief of the Transportation Security Administration from late 2003 until the spring of 2005, helped coordinate the nation's response to the threat against certain "flights of interest" between Christmas 2003 and New Year's 2004.

The nation's alert level was elevated to orange at the time, and the United States asked Britain and France to cancel U.S.-bound flights from London and Paris at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Passengers on flights that did take off were heavily screened before departure and upon arrival. The incident strained relations between the United States and Britain, France and Mexico as U.S. officials pushed those reluctant countries to put armed air marshals aboard flights.

Stone and other top TSA officials were not made aware that the intelligence used to take these actions was later discounted.

The high-profile concern over "flights of interest" was based upon analysis completed by a CIA contractor that said it found specific flight numbers embedded in bar codes on videotapes of al-Jazeera broadcasts, according to former and current intelligence officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. One of the bar codes was numerically identical to the date of an attack on Istanbul, so the contractor's analysis of other bar codes convinced CIA officials that the other codes signified flight numbers, intelligence officials said.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2005 01:35 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Is there any substance to this? Any there, there? No, not really. "Terrorism experts" includes one hell of a range of people - many with their own agenda, such as a CIA employee who needs to be purged or some think-tank weenie who's got a book to push. Who decided what events would be listed - and how were they chosen? Who knows. A "Top 10" list is a PR exercise - period. The color-coded "warning system" is simply dumb - another PR idea that is more wanking than useful. This is WaPo attempting to make something out of nothing, cuz there's enough dust in the air and enough self-serving interests willing to spout some sound bytes vaguely critical of the WH to get away with it. BFD. Fuck off, WaPo.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 2:15 Comments || Top||

#2  Foiling Richard Reid was a "government success"? WTF? Are they even familiar with this plot? It failed not because of some sort of superior work, but rather because Reid had a pack of matches instead of a $5 jetflame lighter. If he had had this simple device, he would have successfully detonated, and several other planes would have probably been lost before the "shoe hole" in the X-ray screening had been detected.
Posted by: gromky || 10/23/2005 5:39 Comments || Top||

#3  This reminds me of sitting on a perimeter once. There was a team trying to penatrate our defences. My commander said to rally my QRF. Not for the team trying to get through the wire but for the guy with bino's on the hill. He showed me very early the bigger threat is not always the obviouse one. The guy had a radio and was guiding the infil teams. Intel guys are great analists and advisors, but in the end only advisors to commanders. Bush must make decisions based on advice and half the facts and our best interests at heart. Intel guys who second guess commanders are working for the wrong side.
Posted by: 49 pan || 10/23/2005 9:52 Comments || Top||


Report Finds U.S. Failing on Overstays of Visas
WASHINGTON, Oct. 21 - The Department of Homeland Security far too frequently fails to follow up on leads that foreign visitors have overstayed their visas, the agency's inspector general says in a new report. The result is an enforcement system that poses little threat of repercussions for tourists, students and others who quietly turn into illegal immigrants, the report says.

Of the 301,046 leads the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency received in 2004 on possible visa violators, the report says, only 4,164 were formally pursued, resulting in just 671 apprehensions. And while some of those cases are still pending, the inspector general, Richard L. Skinner, predicted that a "minuscule" number of these individuals were ever likely to face deportation, an action generally taken only if a person has a criminal history and is detained.

The study estimates that the visa overstay population in the United States is at least 3.6 million people, out of an estimated 9 million to 10 million illegal immigrants. Yet nationally, only 51 full-time agents in the special enforcement unit of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency were assigned in 2004 to work on these cases, the report says. Thus, half of the referrals the auditors examined where not followed up within a two-month period.

The unit "could not keep pace with the large volume of lead referrals," the report said, leading the inspector general to question the "effectiveness in identifying, locating and apprehending potential violators."

Responding to the report, Michael J. Garcia, the former director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said the agency focused not on how old a lead was, but "its threat or public safety potential," citing, for example, a case that it pursued immediately involving a violator who was also wanted in the rape of a 14-year-old girl. Many of the leads the agency receives on visa violators also cannot be followed up, Mr. Garcia said, because the individual may have left the country or because they are inaccurate. But he did not dispute the report's basic findings.

Just this week, the secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff, acknowledged to the Senate Judiciary Committee that his department was not doing enough to prevent illegal immigration.

Conservative Republicans told Mr. Chertoff that before they would support a temporary worker program proposed by President Bush, Mr. Chertoff must do a better job of preventing people from illegally crossing the borders or ignoring immigration laws after arriving legally in this country. The Bush program would give legal status for up to six years for certain illegal immigrants already working in the country. "To say it is a disappointment is an understatement," Representative J. D. Hayworth, Republican of Arizona, said of the inspector general's report on Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE. "ICE is accurate as far as an acronym of being frozen in place in a state of non-enforcement. That is totally unacceptable to the American people."
The problem here is, while people say they want the border closed and the immigration laws enforced, they don't want to pay for it. 51 agents working on overstays? That's one per state. It will take a good sized budget increase to fix that (assuming decent managment, and I wouldn't assume that at DHS). It's going to take some tax dollars to fix the immigration problem.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  RFID the passports and the person. (they don't need to know.).
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 3:03 Comments || Top||

#2  It's going to take some tax dollars to fix the immigration problem.

The question is, would the government fix the immigration problem if the tax dollars were coming in?

So far, there's been no reason to believe that would actually happen.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/23/2005 4:28 Comments || Top||

#3  Bomb-a-rama, The question is, would the government fix the immigration problem if the tax dollars were coming in?


So far, there's been no reason to believe that would actually happen.


..there it is. dittos
Posted by: Red Dog || 10/23/2005 6:03 Comments || Top||

#4  Just a thought, but shouldn't the visas issued be limited in number to what they can actually manage? Determine the rational number that one agent can track and keep tabs on and go from there.

Not enough visas? Tough shit. No one "likes" America anyway, that's what all the fuckwit polls say - we see 'em everyday... they can stay the fuck home and attend good ol' ShitholeSocioFacisTranzIslamonutzMoonbat U.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 9:48 Comments || Top||

#5  No, .com. Not enough visas? Raise the price. Supply and Demand, a Law the government can (and must) live with.
Posted by: Ulenter Slack9684 || 10/23/2005 10:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Lol. No US, heh. The point is keeping track of the little buggers, you see, not whether or not the auction is profitable. But, since I am very much a capitalist, rationally merging the two makes sense...
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 10:11 Comments || Top||

#7  After watching this "Problem" recurr for many years I've come to the comclusion that the Govt does NOT want to "Solve" any kind of Border Problem with either Mexico or Canada, it's just not worth the effort.

The actions of the "Minutemen" simply has the effect of embarrasing the Govt's standing policy of inaction, It'll all die down soon as the spotlight moves away.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 10/23/2005 10:36 Comments || Top||

#8  Raise the price? So only rich Saudis and Chicoms can afford em? I'm willing to pay for the security. Take it from the pork they're tryin to weasel in LA.
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2005 11:31 Comments || Top||

#9  The point is keeping track of the little buggers, you see, not whether or not the auction is profitable
Right on point, It's clearly common sense, and rational security.

Raise the price? So only rich Saudis and Chicoms can afford em? I'm willing to pay for the security. Take it from the pork they're tryin to weasel in LA.

On point again. Even Demos I know are fed up with the weak shit effort by Gubmint. Choking off our life blood Money to them, is the the only second thing pols and bureaucrat will ever understand. A tax payer revolt is needeed.

Otherwise, we will only be left with the first thing pols and bureaucrat understand.
Posted by: Red Dog || 10/23/2005 16:46 Comments || Top||

#10  Saying there is not enough money for immigration enforcement is pure crap. Immigration is a cash cow for the government. There is a regional immigration center in the city I live in. A friend of mine worked there. She said it wasn't uncommon for her to log in a couple of hundred thousand dollars in fees in a day. And she was just one person, on one of two shifts, in one regional center.
Posted by: SC88 || 10/23/2005 18:53 Comments || Top||


Iraq
BBC: Sunni area 'rejects Iraq charter' - Doom and Gloom!
Fresh from the Definitative Source of Yellow Journalism!
Its the BBC!


Partial results of the vote on a new Iraqi constitution suggest at least one Sunni province has rejected it.

The 20% sample said 81.5% had rejected the draft in Salahuddin, but in Diyala - which has a slight Sunni majority - it was approved by just over 50%.

No figures were given for the other two Sunni provinces of Anbar and Ninevah. A two-thirds rejection of the charter in both would torpedo the project.

As expected, the results suggested a very high approval by Shias and Kurds.
But lets bury this ok? It doesn't help our allies the terrorists insurgents and might give the infidels hope....

The new Iraqi constitution was meant to help unite the country, but it has proved bitterly divisive, says the BBC's Caroline Hawley in an unnamed but 4 star hotel bar in Baghdad.


More at link....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2005 15:00 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fine and dandy. The Sunnis want no part in modern Iraq's daily machinations? Good, then maybe it's time to start purging their entire population. The Sunnis have sent an unmistakable sign that they prefer the current modus operendi of terrorism and interference with normal reconstruction efforts. Ship them all to Saudi Arabia and begin Iraq's rebuilding in earnest.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 15:16 Comments || Top||

#2  So, how about a referendum on the EU constitution in England next month Beeb? What will that show? That the little people don't know what's good for them? Strange how your position will swing 180 when the subject is all about what you want it to be.
Posted by: Uleager Jineper3615 || 10/23/2005 15:20 Comments || Top||

#3  Let's ask the correct question: What would Saddam have done if he had a group that didn't support him?
Posted by: Captain America || 10/23/2005 16:09 Comments || Top||

#4  The beeb will tell you the Sunni rejected it because the MSF didn't get UN approval and "sexed up reports." Not because they are Bathists, Saddamits, anti democraticm, anti Republic oh yes and terrorist supporters.

The BBC, home of the most pathetic, biased wankers on the planet. BBC, FOAD, HAND and, "you may quote me on that."
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 10/23/2005 16:54 Comments || Top||


Iraqi poll shock hits US, UK
A British newspaper reported on Saturday that an opinion poll shows 45% of Iraqis believe attacks against American and British troops are justified.

The study was commissioned by Britain's ministry of defence and reveals that fewer than one percent of Iraqis believe US-led coalition forces have helped improved security in Iraq, The Sunday Telegraph reported.

A spokesperson for the Mministry of defence had no immediate comment on the report, which appeared in early editions of the paper published late Saturday.

He declined to comment on whether the ministry had commissioned the poll. He spoke on condition of anonymity, as is customary with British government officials.

The study was conducted by an Iraqi university research team, The Sunday Telegraph reported, without identifying the university. The paper didn't say how many people were questioned or give a margin of error.

But it reported that the survey showed 82% of Iraqis "strongly opposed" the presence of coalition troops in their country and 67% felt less secure because of the US-led occupation.

Posted by: tipper || 10/23/2005 07:26 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The majority may agree with using terror tactics but we aren't running away. Enjoy the occupation.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian || 10/23/2005 7:36 Comments || Top||

#2  God Bless the U.K and U.S.A


USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK ! USA A OK !
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian || 10/23/2005 7:37 Comments || Top||

#3  Given Arab and Muslim problems with the truth, causality, and reason, I am highly suspicious of any poll conducted by, commissioned by, or subcontracted out to (such as the Pew polls) Arabs or Muslims.
Posted by: 11A5S || 10/23/2005 9:02 Comments || Top||

#4  "The study was conducted by an Iraqi university research team, The Sunday Telegraph reported, without identifying the university. The paper didn't say how many people were questioned or give a margin of error."

"But we did get the results we were seeking, this time. We're quite elated by the results, as you can see. As my granny used to tell me, 'Try, try, again!' Righty-o!"

"Wha? Did we try to reconcile our black-hole poll with real-world observations such as those in the Michael Yon article? No, of course not, why would we do that? We're not reporters, we're journalists, silly. Don't forget to parrot our results! Tata!"
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 9:06 Comments || Top||

#5  Without some idea of who was surveyed and what the questions were, this is just noise. Numbers without some context are simply propaganda.
Posted by: SteveS || 10/23/2005 9:28 Comments || Top||

#6  Natural if you only survey in Ramadi.
Posted by: SR-71 || 10/23/2005 9:34 Comments || Top||

#7  Probably done with the same care in sampling and margin of error as the Lancet report.
Posted by: Slimble Sholulet1097 || 10/23/2005 10:15 Comments || Top||

#8  Well, even they admit over half Iraqis DON'T believe attacks against American and British troops are justified.
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 10/23/2005 10:55 Comments || Top||

#9  I am shocked! Shocked! Shocked anyone would believe this horse crap.
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 10/23/2005 10:56 Comments || Top||

#10  I was going to post this article last night with all the usual journalistic caveats, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. There were so many gaping holes in its methodology (a thousand thanks, Rantburg) whereby I felt obliged to refrain.

My own surmise was merely that about half of Iraq's population needs to die.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 13:58 Comments || Top||

#11  Deny! Deny! Deny! On September 17, 2001, I predicted that the dypso, oil-patch, religious crackpot would blow the counter-terror war. What have we got? Islamofascists - including the Koranimal who dynamited the giant Buddhas - now control the Afghan Parliament. Will jihad training begin in earnest, shortly after countless billions of US dollars have been poured into that demographic cesspool? As for Iraq, al-Sadr runs a 10,000 member army under the nose of the so-called "occupiers." The death site of an American soldier is a party site for Iraqi pigs. And now this disgusting poll.

What exactly are you near sighted know-nothings cheerleading for?
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 10/23/2005 23:28 Comments || Top||

#12  Deny! Deny! Deny! On September 17, 2001, I predicted that the dypso, oil-patch, religious crackpot would blow the counter-terror war. What have we got? Islamofascists - including the Koranimal who dynamited the giant Buddhas - now control the Afghan Parliament. Will jihad training begin in earnest, shortly after countless billions of US dollars have been poured into that demographic cesspool? As for Iraq, al-Sadr runs a 10,000 member army under the nose of the so-called "occupiers." The death site of an American soldier is a party site for Iraqi pigs. And now this disgusting poll.

What exactly are you near sighted know-nothings cheerleading for?
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 10/23/2005 23:29 Comments || Top||

#13  Deny! Deny! Deny! On September 17, 2001, I predicted that the dypso, oil-patch, religious crackpot would blow the counter-terror war. What have we got? Islamofascists - including the Koranimal who dynamited the giant Buddhas - now control the Afghan Parliament. Will jihad training begin in earnest, shortly after countless billions of US dollars have been poured into that demographic cesspool? As for Iraq, al-Sadr runs a 10,000 member army under the nose of the so-called "occupiers." The death site of an American soldier is a party site for Iraqi pigs. And now this disgusting poll.

What exactly are you near sighted know-nothings cheerleading for?
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 10/23/2005 23:30 Comments || Top||

#14  Deny! Deny! Deny! On September 17, 2001, I predicted that the dypso, oil-patch, religious crackpot would blow the counter-terror war. What have we got? Islamofascists - including the Koranimal who dynamited the giant Buddhas - now control the Afghan Parliament. Will jihad training begin in earnest, shortly after countless billions of US dollars have been poured into that demographic cesspool? As for Iraq, al-Sadr runs a 10,000 member army under the nose of the so-called "occupiers." The death site of an American soldier is a party site for Iraqi pigs. And now this disgusting poll.

What exactly are you near sighted know-nothings cheerleading for?
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 10/23/2005 23:30 Comments || Top||

#15  It's decaf for you, from now on, Vlad!!!
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 23:46 Comments || Top||


Iraq cleric backs reconciliation meeting
A push by the Cairo-based Arab League to gather Iraq's divided factions for a national reconciliation conference has gained momentum, after Iraq's top Shia cleric gave his blessing to the initiative. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, whose views are influential among Iraq's Shia, told Amr Moussa, the head of the 22-state Arab League, that he supported the idea of a conference in Cairo next month, Moussa said on Saturday. "He gave his blessing to the conference," Moussa told reporters in Najaf after meeting al-Sistani in the holy city. Al-Sistani rarely speaks publicly and his office did not immediately confirm the content of their discussions.

Moussa, secretary-general of the league, has held a flurry of talks with Iraqi leaders in recent days in an effort to ease sectarian tensions that have risen since January elections swept Shia and Kurds to power and isolated Arab Sunnis once dominant under Saddam Hussein. On Friday, some leading Arab Sunni leaders said they too had agreed to take part in the conference, to be held in the Egyptian capital on 15 November.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sistani has fallen into a trap.

The Cairo meeting will probably consist of Sunnis whining and threatening and end up making things worse.

If things work out that way it will be a big blow to Sistani's prestige.
Posted by: mhw || 10/23/2005 0:19 Comments || Top||

#2  I'll go one (or ten) further... al Shitstani hasn't gotten much of anything right, other than making statements that so obviously serve Shi'a interests that any 10 yr old Shi'a child could have made them.

He's beyond "huge disappointment" he's a zero, if not a negative. He defines the stupid Shi'a who can't fathom the golden gift dropped in their laps and simply do the fully expected sectarian thingy. Wotta loser. If only he had been hit and the other SuperDuperTollahMullahwankerguy (can't recall his name at the moment) had lived -- but then that's why they bumped off the smart one and let the dummy live. Screw his prestige, he's worthless.

Good thing I don't have any strong opinions about this piece of shit-for-brains putz.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 0:39 Comments || Top||

#3  I'm confident that by "reconciliation" they mean; Putting aside all temporary differences and getting back on track with killing the infidel masses.

Either these morons finally realize how vital a secular democracy is to the future of Iraq or they all need to be killed and replaced with people who do. I'm sick of spilling American blood so these sh!theads can wank off over some theocratic wet dream. Go secular or go to he||, no options.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 1:07 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Teacher finds way to make Paleo schoolchildren behave
A teacher faces a police quiz after allegedly telling pupils: "Behave or I'll put a bomb on your bus." Palestinian-born Mazin Albarq was said to have made the sick joke to a class of 13 and 14-year-olds. Parents complained and headteacher Maureen Bates contacted police.

Pupils in supply teacher Mr Albarq's class may also be questioned over a possible charge of threatening criminal damage. The parent of one 14-year-old said: "Children who use the school bus were terrified. It was surely meant as a joke but in the present climate there was nothing remotely funny."
Well, I find it pretty funny.

Police said: "Inquiries are at an early stage following a complaint of inappropriate comments." Mrs Bates, head of St Bede's Catholic School in Lanchester, Co Durham, said Mr Albarq worked at the school for only a few days. She added: "The allegations came to light after he left and we informed the police and agency."

Mr Albarq, father of a primary age pupil, said at his home in Darlington, Co Durham: "How sad that a joke can cause such a fuss. I honestly didn't know anybody had complained. I knew nothing about this. I have heard nothing from the school or from the police."
Posted by: Jackal || 10/23/2005 15:46 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Golly gee whillikers, sauce for the goose ain't sauce for the gander after all? Who'd a thunk it? Sounds more like a combination of total moral inversion and gaping cognitive dissonance, but who am I to say?
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 15:59 Comments || Top||

#2  Strike my previous comment. The guy's natural reflexes betrayed him, that's all.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 16:02 Comments || Top||

#3  ok, strike one! ;)
Posted by: Red Dog || 10/23/2005 16:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Not Paleo school children - British school children at a Catholic school.
Posted by: DMFD || 10/23/2005 18:10 Comments || Top||

#5  Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/23/2005 18:46 Comments || Top||

#6  thats a goodun Moose, saven it. <:)
Posted by: Red Dog || 10/23/2005 21:44 Comments || Top||


Syria to meet Saddam-like fate: Israeli FM
NAZARETH — Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom has said the trial of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, which began on Wednesday, had shaken the Arab world as it proved that leaders would have to pay for any crime they committed while in power. “This is what is happening to Saddam Hussein and it is what will happen to the one responsible for the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, and to Hamas also,” he said in an interview he gave in Hebrew to the official Israeli Radio.
Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.
Shalom, who spoke at length on the assassination of Hariri, said his country’s assessment of the issue pointed to the involvement of a number of personalities in the Syrian government. “But I believe the best thing to do is to wait for the report of the German investigator, Detliv Mehlis,” he said, adding that the Jewish entity would adopt the report. “But I believe there is need to keep the pressure on every government that supports terror, whether the government is Iranian or, of course, Syria,” he said.

He claimed that Syria continues to proactively support terror in Iraq, and provide support to Hezbollah and a number of ‘extremist’ Palestinian organisations. “We believe this new system of holding leaders responsible for their crimes would lead to a better and more open Middle East region,” he said. He added that he does not support the view which says that Syrian President Bashar Al Assad is better and weaker than other Syrian governments. “I believe, on the contrary, that it is better for Syria to have a new government,” he said.
"Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go talk with my American friends on some 'plans' they've made," he added.
In reply to the possibility of a meeting between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian National Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Shalom said he doubted such a meeting would happen next month. “Such a meeting cannot be held as we know before the meeting that the result will be a big failure,” he said.

A Sharon-Abbas meeting was supposed to be held last Tuesday, but the two leaders agreed to postpone the meeting due to differences on a number of issues. “The meeting could not take place last week because the gap in the differences between the two men was very wide,” he said.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/23/2005 00:04 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


"Jews have no right to Temple Mount"
Following is a WorldNetDaily exclusive interview with Sheik Kamal Hatib.
Trimmed somewhat, as My stomach isn't as strong as it used to be.

WND: Who should have sovereignty over the Temple Mount – Jews, Christians, or Muslims. Or should it be shared?

HATIB: We absolutely believe that Al Aqsa, all its different parts, all its walls, all its courts, and everything down the mosque or up it, all these fully belong to the Muslims. Only to them. No one other than the Muslims has any right over Al Aqsa, or even over any grain of its sand. We, the Muslims, insist and emphasize that the only sovereignty over Al Aqsa must be for the Muslims. We will not accept or recognize any other sovereignty, including shared control.

WND: But what about the previous Jewish Temples? Do you believe they existed? Do Jews have any historic claims to the Temple Mount whatsoever?

HATIB: We the Muslims believe that Al Aqsa was built since the time of Adam – God bless him. It was built 40 years after the construction of the Al Haram Mosque in Mecca which was built thousands of years ago. Al Aqsa was built by the angels as it is mentioned in a verse of the Quran. The mosque is mentioned in the Quran, which speaks about the raising of the prophet. We believe that the Jewish Temples existed, but we deny they were built near Al Aqsa. When the First Temple was built by Solomon – God bless him – Al Aqsa was already built. We don't believe that a prophet like Solomon would have built the Temple at a place where a mosque existed.

WND: There is no serious scholar or archeologist in the world who argues Al Aqsa was built before the Jewish Temples. And if the Temples didn't exist on the Mount, what then do you say is the Western Wall?

HATIB: About the Kotel (the Western Wall), we deny any relation between the Temple and the Al Aqsa Mosque. We believe that the Western Wall is part of the mosque and not the Wall of Lamentation, as the Jews say. ... The Western wall is an inseparable part of the mosque.

WND: You were talking about Al Aqsa being mentioned in the Quran. But I understand it is never directly mentioned. And the city of Jerusalem is not mentioned once. Commentators later concluded a verse about Muhammad descending to the furthest mosque referred to Al Aqsa. Meanwhile, Jerusalem is mentioned thousands of times throughout the Torah. Half the Torah is about Temple worship. Explain why you feel the Mount is not holy to Jews?

HATIB: The fact that Jerusalem is mentioned in the Torah does not in any way mean that the city was populated or built by the Jews. Everyone knows that when the prophet Abraham came from Iraq in 1850 before Christ he was given by the Arab King Melchizedek the land where he and his wife lived in Hebron, and it was 600 years before Moses' message, which also proves that Abraham was not a Jew. And your saying that our faith is based on this interpretation of the verse [about Al Aqsa] is a totally wrong analysis. The Al Aqsa of the Quran is the same Al Aqsa of our days, not any other mosque. That is what our Sharia says. As for what you say that Jerusalem is mentioned thousands of times in the Torah; it is not a matter of numbers and quantity. There is a very clear historical event mentioned in the Quran concerning the mosque that was built by Adam and where all our prophets prayed.

WND: Speaking of praying, currently, Jews and Christians can only ascend the Mount at certain hours on certain days, and only with approval from the Wafq (the Mount's Muslim custodians). If they go up, it is to tour. Non-Muslims are not allowed to pray on the Mount. Why is it so offensive to you if Jews or Christians pray on the Temple Mount?

HATIB: We don't want even these scheduled visits, which are allowed to take place only because of the Israeli occupation. The visits are not the result of a free choice of the Muslims and the Wafq. If it was not for Israel, these visits could not take place at all. Speaking about the Christians, I say that every person who believes in God must act for peace and for love among human beings and not to help in creating hate and war. Unfortunately, the evangelical Christians believe in the necessity of a war of civilizations. Because of this belief, President Bush, supported by these groups, is leading this war against the Muslim world.
Posted by: Jackal || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It is precisely this sort of unmitigated horsesh!t that justifies Israel taking control of Jerusalem. While it is easy to imagine Israel continuing to allow Muslim visits to al Aqsa under such conditions, the converse is simply beyond possibility.

It is this sort of implaccable hatred that paints the Arab world as a bunch of backwater thugs with eggshell-egos who cannot tolerate the least questioning of their religious tenets.

Until all major Islamic authorities declare peacable coexistence with other religions to be a mandatory feature of Muslim life, the remaining world must continue to view Islam's main agenda as one of global cultural genocide.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 0:16 Comments || Top||

#2  PS: Place Sheik Kamal Hatib on the wetwork list. This sort of intolerant monomania needs to be rewarded with a bullet in the brain.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 0:19 Comments || Top||

#3  The fact that Jerusalem is mentioned in the Torah does not in any way mean that the city was populated or built by the Jews. Everyone knows that

*sigh*
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2005 0:43 Comments || Top||

#4  zenster

the genocide they want is not just cultural
Posted by: mhw || 10/23/2005 0:48 Comments || Top||

#5  Give it to the (rolling a die) the militant hindus.

Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 0:50 Comments || Top||

#6  My religion says that Mecca and Medina belong to me, that muslim's within 5 light years of the two holy places of the Sixth Congregation Church of Rodney must be castrated, disemboweled, flayed alive and broken on the wheel.

Sounds fair to me.
Posted by: Silentbrick || 10/23/2005 0:52 Comments || Top||

#7  the genocide they want is not just cultural

By Global Cultural Genocide™, I mean the total death and destruction of all non-Muslim cultures. Methinks we are in violent agreement, mhw.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 0:56 Comments || Top||

#8  PS: Place Sheik Kamal Hatib on the wetwork list.

I couldn't disagree more. He seems merely to be expressing popular Muslim sentiment, nuts though it may be. Where, as here, there's little if any chance of workable compromise, the most certain way to stamp out insanity is to widely disseminate it and allow it to polarized popular opinion until nature takes its course. Distasteful though it is asshats like this need to be allowed to speak.
Posted by: AzCat || 10/23/2005 1:20 Comments || Top||

#9  AzCat, I used to feel the way you do about this. No longer is this the case. We cannot sit and wait as "nature takes its course". What Sheik Hatib is spewing is on a par with Holocaust denial. I consider this sort of historical revisionism as being a key element in how radical Islam continues to poison and program the minds of its cannon fodder youth.

We no longer have the luxury of letting intolerance and irrationality reach its own logical conclusion. 9-11 forever put the lie to such self-delusion. Only an agressive campaign of eradication will avoid the immolation of all Islam. What you advocate is similar to a doctor who, upon finding a lump, advises the patient to wait and see if its gets real big before worrying about it. We have let this moral cancer metastasize long enough. Excision is called for, and should that fail, cauterization.

Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 1:33 Comments || Top||

#10  What a bunch of whining babbling babboons.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian || 10/23/2005 2:05 Comments || Top||

#11  What a bunch of whining babbling babboons.

Yes, Oztralian, indeed they are whining babbling babboons. But they happen to be whining babbling babboons with access to high explosives and that requires taking them out seriously.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 2:14 Comments || Top||

#12  All ur pryamids r belong to us. See, they're right here on our dollar bills.
Posted by: Sheik Ratl N. Roll || 10/23/2005 10:05 Comments || Top||

#13  Yep. With the Illumasonazi Eye thingy.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 10:14 Comments || Top||

#14  Time to raze the mosque to the ground - in all its different parts, all of its walls, all of its courts, and everything else.

The moose-limbs can visit it in their sick dreams - Just like mohammand did.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2005 11:17 Comments || Top||

#15  Ownership devolves to whomever has the most guns in the local area and the will to use them.
Posted by: RWV || 10/23/2005 11:52 Comments || Top||

#16  These idiots need to be taught that Islam is nothing more than the Scientology of the 7th century. "If I really wanted to make some money, I would start a religion." L. Ron Hubbard

Raze the mosque.
Posted by: SR-71 || 10/23/2005 13:19 Comments || Top||

#17  We absolutely believe that Al Aqsa, all its different parts, all its walls, all its courts, and everything down the mosque or up it, all these fully belong to the Muslims. Only to them. No one other than the Muslims has any right over Al Aqsa, or even over any grain of its sand. We, the Muslims, insist and emphasize that the only sovereignty over Al Aqsa must be for the Muslims. We will not accept or recognize any other sovereignty, including shared control.

This is only a consequence of the more general theory obtained by replacing "Al Aqsa" with "the world" in the above statement.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/23/2005 13:25 Comments || Top||

#18  In the meantime, the Palestinians have been for years been observed busily removing historical artifacts from around the Temple Mount site, and engaging in activities that actively undermine the supporting structure upon which the mosque sits. I await the inevitable with anticipation... but then I believe in Cause ==> Effect.
Posted by: trailing wife || 10/23/2005 14:39 Comments || Top||

#19  Allan and gravity - can they coincide?
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2005 16:24 Comments || Top||

#20  Zenster, it's ironic that I'd have agreed with you 100% in the months following 9/11. As it stands I agree with your view in its entirety aside from now being the time to forcefully address this nonsense.

No one who reads Rantburg needs to be reminded of the depth of lunacy exhibited by many sheiks, imams, mullahs, and other various and sundry Muslim personages but when, as here, said lunacy is rooted in strongly-held religious beliefs I posit that disabusing the holder of his beliefs will be quite problematic because these folks derive all of their worldly authority from those beliefs. IMHO they're simply too invested in their beliefs to be swayed by any amount of logic, reason, history, bribery, etc. When debating and bribing fail only direct action remains an option and that's a course we cannot pursue without at least political support from much of the non-Muslim world because, like it or not, if we manage to alienate the entire world and unite them under a strong anti-American banner we will be the losers in the long term.

The event that led me to believe that we cannot effectively address this issue at the present time is the Iraq war or, more specifically, the world’s reaction to it. The worst reaction we could have expected is something along the lines of, "We'd prefer it not have happened that way but on balance Iraq and the world are better off for Saddam having been deposed." Instead popular opinion now sees the US as the greatest threat to peace & stability and W as Hitler. In that world, one in which a book dropped in the dust sparks riots, protests, and waves of anti-Americanism across the globe what do you suppose the reaction would be if the brainpans of thousands of radical Muslims were ventilated en masse?

The world’s animosity towards America is as palpable as it is laughable nevertheless it's the order of the day and imposes severe restrictions on what we can do as it would be very difficult for even our closest allies to drum up enough support at home to follow an American lead on much of anything much less on a covert or open conflict that will necessarily span the entire geography of the Muslim world. The courses that are open to us now (dialogue, debate, bribery, etc.) are losers and even more forceful courses of action will immediately make us losers in the international arena. As much as we’d like to believe that doesn’t matter, it does … at least so long as we’re not prepared to lock down the borders Soviet-style, something I don’t think any of us want to see.

I’m a pragmatist first and foremost. Even a low-grade campaign to forcefully stamp out the most radical Islamists would likely do little more than legitimize their beliefs in the minds of their followers and further stoke the anti-American fires. No course of action that we can follow today will yield any good and lasting result so what’s the point of spending our political and economic capital now? Better to wait while a petulant, angry, and shortsighted world suffers at the hands of the monster it is currently defending until it cries out, once again, for help. Then and IMHO only then will we be in a position to have a lasting impact on this problem.
Posted by: AzCat || 10/23/2005 23:31 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Myanmar building a secret Nuclear site
According to a report, the secret N-project is taking shape near Shan hills. An airfield, few roads and tunnels are already under construction near the site since last year.
Posted by: john || 10/23/2005 10:51 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Burma only looks inward -- so which group are they going to nuke? The Shan?
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 12:19 Comments || Top||


JI no longer recruiting Muslim hardliners
Seems more than a little counter-intuitive to me, but okay ...
Terrorists in Indonesia, the world's most Moslem populous nation, have changed their tactics from recruiting Moslem radicals to other groups, local media reported Sunday.

"Evidence collected by our intelligence agents shows that the terrorists no longer draw their new recruits from among Moslem hardliners but from other groups," the state-run Antara news agency quoted Central Java police chief, Inspector General Chaerul Rasyid, as saying.

He explained that the change was due to the roles of Moslem clerics in Central Java and other provinces for their support of the police's efforts in fighting against terrorism.

"I have met a number of Moslem clerics in Central Java, including Ahdurrahman Chudori in Magelang who supports the eradication of terrorism," Rasyid said, referring to one among influential Moslem clerics in the province.

"The clerics had expressed their readiness to watch out in order to help Moslems and Islamic boarding schools not infiltrated by terrorists because Islam does not teach violence," he added.

Most of the perpetrators in the first bombing attacks on the island of Bali three years ago had lived and studied at Islamic boarding schools in Central Java, in particular the Ngruki Islamic boarding school, established by the jailed Moslem cleric militant Abu Bakar Ba'asyir.

They were including three of the key players in the October 2002 blasts, Amrozi, Mukhlas and Imam Samudra, who have been convicted to death and currently waiting execution before teams of police firing squads, were graduates of the Ngruki Islamic boarding school.

Rasyid was quoted as telling a group of Moslem clerics in the province earlier this week that terrorists in Indonesia have recruited 35 new suicide bombers, and were shifting tactics from recruiting impoverished families to enlisting criminals and drug addicts to carry out attacks.

Rasyid said the chief of the national police, General Sutanto, has instructed all regional police headquarters to intensify alertness ahead of the Moslem Eid el-Fitr holiday. The Eid el-Fitr festivity marking the end of the fasting month of Ramadan is due to fall on November 3-4.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2005 01:34 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Evidence collected by our intelligence agents shows that the terrorists no longer draw their new recruits from among Moslem hardliners but from other groups," the state-run Antara news agency quoted Central Java police chief, Inspector General Chaerul Rasyid, as saying.

Rasyid has been breathing his own exhaust for way too long.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 1:49 Comments || Top||

#2  This could be a good opportunity to do a little ol' fashioned infiltratin'...
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/23/2005 1:55 Comments || Top||

#3  If this is true then it is a good sign and progress. Like the ASG in the PI once the Muzzie hardline support fades their true colors show and they go back to being the criminals they always were.
Posted by: 49 pan || 10/23/2005 9:34 Comments || Top||


Philippine Troops Hunting Extremists Find Marijuana Plantation
Security forces yesterday said they have destroyed a large marijuana plantation believed to be maintained by Abu Sayyaf extremists in the southern Philippine island of Jolo.
Like... Wow, man...
Officials said army troops were tracking down militants in the hinterlands of Patao village in Maimbung town when they stumbled into the plantation.
"Whoa! Dewd! What's the smell?"
"I think it's coming from over there!:
A combined team of soldiers and police were then sent to the place to destroy the illegal crops.
"Don't worry about it. We'll destroy the whole crop. We'll catch up with you in a few daze..."
"Like, no way, dewd! We're stayin' to destroy the crop!"
“We have uprooted at least 3,000 fully grown marijuana plants,” army Maj. Gamal Hayudini, a spokesman of the military’s Southern Command, told Arab News. Hayudini said the seized marijuana plants were handed over to the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency for disposal.
Really.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Now 3000 sounds like a big number but... there are likely much larger plots in many of our state and federal forests. It wouldn't keep all that many potheads happy for a year.
It might be the groups personel stash. In that case it would have made more sense to posion it then to cut it down.
Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 1:16 Comments || Top||

#2  That's about the average size field found over there. Usually it is found up in the Northern Islands, making this a bit unusual. But then the military and police are pushing hard there this month. I doubt the ASG own these fields, they probably had guys there to guard them. The ASG lacks the ability and vision to own and manage a pot farm. Sounds like a local mayor's economic improvement project to me.
Posted by: 49 pan || 10/23/2005 9:18 Comments || Top||

#3  Well there goes the Palan 4H Club's rope project this year. Man. Bummed.
Posted by: Slimble Sholulet1097 || 10/23/2005 10:29 Comments || Top||

#4  depends on the buds, 3DC....not that I'd know or anything
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2005 12:02 Comments || Top||

#5  buy that guy a beer.
Posted by: bk || 10/23/2005 17:03 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Al-Qaeda training manuals being distributed in eastern Iran
Compact discs containing al-Qaeda’s training manuals and propaganda materials are being freely distributed in Iran’s eastern and southeastern provinces, according to local residents.

The instructions, all in Arabic, cover a wide range of political and ideological indoctrination, as well as offering detailed guidelines on military and security tactics, according to residents of the provincial cities of Mashad and Zahedan who have seen the CDs.

“They are easily available and cost nothing”, Gol-Mohammad Baremi, who lives in the southeastern city of Zahedan, told Iran Focus in a telephone interview. “But they can’t be for local people. Hardly anyone here speaks Arabic”.

Some security analysts suspect that the CDs could be part of the much larger stocks prepared for shipment to Iraq and other Arab countries.

“They are either being produced in Iran’s eastern provinces to be smuggled to Iraq, or they are being brought into Iran from Afghanistan and Pakistan, en route to Iraq”, Paramjit Gupta, a counter-terrorism specialist based in Dubai, said in a telephone interview. “The question, as always, is the degree of official Iranian involvement. Given the strong presence of [Iranian secret police] MOIS agents in these provinces, I imagine the government knows very well what’s going on”.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2005 01:31 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's difficult not to gloat over the prospect of Iran's Shiites coming into the crosshairs of al Qaeda's Sunni terrorists. That one of the most enduring sponsors of terrorism might be wracked with domestic Islamist terror attacks is simply too delicious. Talk about poetic justice.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 1:57 Comments || Top||


Iran calls for more documented report on Hariri killing
Iran on Saturday called for a more documented final report on the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, voicing hope that the case should not be used for political objectives.

"As the UN secretary-general has emphasized accuracy of legal and technical aspects of the report, we hope that the final report would be more documented and free from political consideration," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid-Reza Asefi was quoted by the official IRNA news agency as saying.

Stressing that Iran followed up the report precisely and patiently, Asefi said that Iran had stated that Hariri's assassination was of terrorist nature and had called for a probe.

He said that Tehran will refrain from making hasty judgment about the assassination until the final report of the UN Inquiry Committee is released.

"Process of the UN inquiry should focus on detecting the facts and identifying assassins, which would be effective in maintaining regional peace and stability," Asefi said.

He praised Syria's cooperation with UN inquiry officials on the case, saying "Syrian officials have displayed goodwill in the UN inquiry and the international community is expected to appreciate Syria's cooperation and take into account the viewpoints of the Syrian government and people on handling the affair."

Iran has close relations with Syria, which is under harsh economic sanctions imposed by the United States.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 10/23/2005 01:30 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Yes, just like Teddy Kennedy wanted more documentation from John Roberts... Of course we will "refrain from making hasty judgment" until ALL the facts are in.

Nope, not yet. MORE facts.
Posted by: Bobby || 10/23/2005 10:25 Comments || Top||


Hariri’s Son Seeks International Trial
The son of slain former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri called yesterday for an international trial of his killers as Syria pledged to continue cooperation with the ongoing UN inquiry. A day after a UN report implicated senior Syrian and Lebanese intelligence figures in Hariri’s murder, the Lebanese government called the report a thoroughly professional work and the country’s police said they had evidence of a wider Syrian plot to bomb its smaller neighbor.

Hariri’s son and political heir, Saad, said in a televised address to the Lebanese from his temporary residence in Jeddah, that he was seeking justice, not revenge. “We call on the international community to uphold its support for the international commission into the assassination of Hariri to unearth the full truth and bring the perpetrators to justice in an international court,” he said.
Why does Saad look like he should be giving tango lessons and hanging out with women two or three times his age?
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I see many junkets to Paris and Brussels in his future... And lots of whores there who'll mistake him for a pimp.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 9:15 Comments || Top||

#2  International Court = No death sentences. WTF is wrong with this picture?

Yea Jr, why not a court some place they will hang?
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 10/23/2005 10:58 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan-Pak-India
India removes mines for relief camps along LoC
The Indian Army has started removing landmines at places along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir where three relief camps will be set up for quake victims from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Army officials said units were busy removing thousands of mines along vast stretches of land at Poonch, Uri and Tangdhar. Many of the mines were laid during 2002, when India and Pakistan had mobilised nearly a million troops during a standoff.

The officials said the de-mining operations would be completed by Monday evening. Soldiers will create a three-foot wide path for people from Pakistani Kashmir to cross the LoC.

India on Saturday offered to set up three relief camps and meeting points along the LoC as a goodwill gesture toward families in the divided parts of Kashmir that were affected by the Oct 8 quake, which has killed thousands in the region.

The offer was made by India in response to Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf's proposal for opening the LoC to allow quake-hit divided families to meet.

The Indian Army has been given orders to make the three meeting points along the LoC operational by Tuesday morning, though Pakistan is yet to formally communicate its position on modalities for the crossing points in Jammu and Kashmir.

"We will do our job. The rest is for the governments to decide," an officer said on condition of anonymity.

Over 1,400 people were killed in Jammu and Kashmir by the 7.6 magnitude quake, while casualties across the LoC have been estimated at 44,000.
Posted by: john || 10/23/2005 12:55 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: Horn
Somalia Faces Threat of New Civil War
With too many weapons, too little food and three factions vying for control, Somalia's anarchy is overwhelming its new government even before it can establish itself. The competition for power, which threatens to trigger another civil war, could combine with a potential food crisis and repeat the disaster that followed the collapse of Somalia's last regime in 1991. U.S. forces under U.N. command went into the Horn of Africa nation to help the starving, and other nations joined them, but the U.N. failed to set up a viable government.

Already, at least one al-Qaida cell is believed to have set itself up, and experts agree that another civil war could create an opportunity for Islamic extremists to take power. Homegrown fundamentalists have set up an Islamic court system, and militias move freely in some parts of Mogadishu, the capital, enforcing the court's rulings by shutting bars and destroying shops that sell pirated DVDs and music cassettes. The United States has long feared that Islamic militants may take advantage of the clan-fueled anarchy to replicate the Taliban's Afghanistan.

Heightened tensions in the capital come as poor rainfall, mass displacement of farmers due to fighting and extensive environmental destruction set the stage for widespread hunger. The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization is calling for contingency planning for southern Somalia. "Civil insecurity and unrest continues to be one of the main factors contributing to food and livelihood insecurity throughout the region," the FAO's Food Security Analysis Unit said in its October report. Most Somalis already depend on handouts. Many live in wretched camps, their homes destroyed in clan fighting. The feared crop failure could increase their dependency on foreign food aid, already made tenuous by the instability.

A year-old transitional government is meant to bring peace and the first central government in 14 years, but has split in two. The secular president and prime minister are based in the small town of Jowhar, while the warlords of Mogadishu, some of them also Cabinet ministers, have stopped cooperating until they get some concessions from the president. Forming a third force are fundamentalists who will settle for no less than an Islamic government, one of its leaders, Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, told The Associated Press in an interview this month. All three sides have received large shipments of arms — often from neighboring countries hoping to gain influence with Somalia's competing clans — setting the stage for renewed war, according to the U.N. Monitoring Group on Somalia. It has reported to the Security Council that there is a "severely elevated threat of widespread violence in central and southern Somalia."

Since none of the three factions is believed to have sufficient firepower to defeat the other, no one knows how long the stalemate might last. Prime Minister Ali Mohamed Gedi's government, the product of the 14th peace process in 15 years, originally included all of the key warlords and received a great deal of international backing. "We are trying to calm the militias, but it is not an easy task to restore security and stability in the country," Gedi said in an interview in neighboring Kenya. He dismissed the schism within his Cabinet, pointing out that out of 42 members, only five were in Mogadishu and refusing to cooperate with him. "It is not as bad as people are saying," he said.

But it is bad enough to split the international community. Diplomats can't agree on whether to throw their full weight behind Gedi and President Abdulahi Yusuf, or wait and hope the Mogadishu warlords can be coaxed back into the peace process, officials familiar with ongoing discussions said. While the four key militia leaders in Mogadishu control the only city in the country and most of Somalia's economy, the only thing they seem to share is a hatred for Yusuf, and what they say are his dictatorial inclinations. While reconciliation efforts are under way, few hold out any hope of success.

Waiting in the wings are Somalia's fundamentalist Muslims, some of whom are listed by the U.S. State Department as al-Qaida collaborators. The most prominent is Aweys. While he won't address allegations he's had contacts with al-Qaida, he doesn't hide his opposition to Yusuf, his readiness to declare a jihad should foreign peacekeepers enter Somalia, or his plans to establish an Islamic government.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So, um, what's the Sympathy Quotient on this one?

I think we're gonna need to pull out the digital job - to display the negative values which would damage the analog model when the needle wraps around the peg.

But that's just me.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 2:24 Comments || Top||

#2  Got to make a compound Apathy-Sympathy Meter, .com, with units in milli-giveash*ts.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/23/2005 2:51 Comments || Top||

#3  I think its ok to leave them be --- just with the piracy thing... the ports should really be destroyed. Also, all boats and planes. Let them go to pure sticks and stones.

Posted by: 3dc || 10/23/2005 2:59 Comments || Top||

#4  Simple enough. The solution is what was required on the first go around. KILL THE WARLORDS. These evil slimebags have no problem starving their own people, diverting foreign aid and promoting mayhem in general. Airdrop pallets of poisoned food, let the warlords feed themselves and their troops, presto! No more warlords. We really need to stop prinking about with these evil maggots. Sure and swift death needs to be the reward of those who promote this sort of havoc. No amount of mediation or assistance will change anything. Death will.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 3:16 Comments || Top||

#5  Hey, when did the last one end?
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 10/23/2005 9:22 Comments || Top||

#6  You didn't get the memo? Musta sent it to the other WCR, damnit.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 9:28 Comments || Top||

#7  "Somalia Faces Threat of New Civil War:
In the newspaper business this is known as a "standing headline."
Posted by: regular joe || 10/23/2005 9:39 Comments || Top||

#8  They get bored with the old one?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/23/2005 9:57 Comments || Top||

#9  when the skinnys routinely use children and women as human shields I write off the entire culture. Nuke it and start over
Posted by: Frank G || 10/23/2005 11:20 Comments || Top||

#10  Will this one have a different color bottle? A 'new fresh scent'?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/23/2005 11:21 Comments || Top||

#11  Train Wrecks & Weddings always make me cry.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/23/2005 11:32 Comments || Top||


Africa: North
59 suspects under arrest in aftermath of Friday riots
The police are following up measures of controlling the 5,000 people riots that took place in Muharram Bey suburb in the coastal Alexandria city yesterday, said a security source Saturday, describing the riots as extremist. The Middle East News Agency (MENA) quoted the source as saying that 59 suspects were detained in the event's aftermath. The riots had erupted at Muharram Bey yesterday when thousands staged a strike against a play show by a Coptic church claiming that it offended Islam.

About 5,000 Muslims gathered after Friday prayers off a Coptic church. The Egyptian Police stood against the demonstrators, who tossed stones at the church, police, and pedestrians, causing some injuries. Security forces used tear gas to breakup the demonstration. Yesterday's demonstration is the second since last week against the play staged in the church's theater, though church officials denied that the play offended the Islamic religion.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But don't make the mistake of connecting the riots with the Friday "prayers". Nope, that wouldn't do at all. It would be insensitive and everything. Very unfair.
Posted by: .com || 10/23/2005 2:26 Comments || Top||

#2  On Friday, thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in this city, apparently angry over a play that was performed two years ago in the church, and was recently distributed on video disc. Though few people interviewed Saturday said they actually saw the play or the DVD, the word from the mosque on the street was it was anti-Islamic.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/international/africa/23egypt.html

I guess that when all you can do is seethe, it takes quite some time before things reach the boiling point.
Posted by: Zenster || 10/23/2005 15:41 Comments || Top||


Certain parties want to stab Egypt's national unity-Shnouda
Coptic Church Patriarch, Pope Shnouda III warned Saturday of "certain parties wanting to stir seditions and harm Egypt's national unity." The Coptic official denied in statement issued today insulting Islam or the Holy Quran accusing the two newspapers which had published relevant news reports of "inciting commotions." The statement said a play, which was deemed offensive to Islam, "had been showed two years back for one day only and was not viewed by a single Moslem." Shnouda said the play tackled extremism, and hoped the recent riots would not have links to the upcoming parliamentary election.

On the other side, Grand Imam of the Moslems' Al-Azhar Mosque, Dr. Muhammad Sayed Tantawi, said national unity between Egypt's Moslems and Copts was too strong to be shaken by such incidents. He said Egypt's judiciary would consider the issue. Thousands of Moslims rioted outside a Coptic Christian church in coastal city of Alexandria yesterday to denounce the play, prompting police to beat protesters and fire tear gas into the crowds.
Posted by: Fred || 10/23/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:



Who's in the News
76[untagged]

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog











On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2005-10-23
  Islamist named in Mehlis report held
Sat 2005-10-22
  Bush calls for action against Syria
Fri 2005-10-21
  Hariri murder probe implicates Syria
Thu 2005-10-20
  US, UK teams search quake rubble for Osama Bin Laden
Wed 2005-10-19
  Sammy on trial
Tue 2005-10-18
  Assad brother-in-law named as suspect in Hariri murder
Mon 2005-10-17
  Bangla bans HUJI
Sun 2005-10-16
  Qaeda propagandist captured
Sat 2005-10-15
  Iraqis go to the polls
Fri 2005-10-14
  Louis Attiyat Allah killed in Iraq?
Thu 2005-10-13
  Nalchik under seige by Chechen Killer Korps
Wed 2005-10-12
  Syrian Interior Minister "Commits Suicide"
Tue 2005-10-11
  Suspect: Syrian Gave Turk Bombers $50,000
Mon 2005-10-10
  Bombs at Georgia Tech campus, UCLA
Sun 2005-10-09
  Quake kills 30,000+ in Pak-India-Afghanistan


Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
3.144.233.150
Help keep the Burg running! Paypal:
WoT Operations (29)    Non-WoT (13)    Opinion (6)    (0)    (0)