Interior Minister Prince Naif yesterday confirmed plans to release some detainees held for security reasons after they repented and, after following a counseling program, decided to return to the right path. He emphasized however that the government would not set free those militants arrested for planning terrorist attacks across the country. âThey are still under investigation and will be transferred to court for trial,â the Saudi Press Agency quoted him as saying.
Prince Naif said the ministryâs counseling program, which started two years ago, was aimed at providing advice to those held in connection with security incidents that had taken place in the country in recent years. âA number of prominent scholars, intellectuals, social scientists and psychiatrists are taking part in the program. They meet the detainees to convince them of the danger of their deviant thoughts in order to return them to the true Islamic path,â the minister said. Abdul Mohsen Al-Obaikan, a member of the Shoura Council, who has actively taken part in the counseling program, recently disclosed the governmentâs plan to release some of the detainees, who repented of their wrongdoings.
âExperts involved in the counseling program have realized its effectiveness in changing the mind of the detainees and observed improvement in their behavior, desire to accept advice and return to the right path,â Prince Naif said, adding that families of the released detainees would be asked to give them proper attention.
#2
Prince Naif said the ministryâs counseling program, which started two years ago, was aimed at providing advice to those held in connection with security incidents that had taken place in the country in recent years.
Funny how those "security incidents" only involved the death of infidels.
#6
If the Princelings in charge won't take things into their own hands, tehn we may need to accelerate the timeline for ascension of princelings who will. Wetwork may be difficult in a closed society like Saudi, but not impossible. They venture out to get their kicks
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 11:35 Comments ||
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#7
"They venture out to get their kicks"
And no payback could compare to bottling them up in their little sandbox shithole. The hypocrisy game cuts them, too. They leave to live. We could make it so hot (heh) they stay to live - and suffer in the hyper-paranoid cutthroat holy-man BS Hell they've created.
The Prince of Wales will try to persuade George W Bush and Americans of the merits of Islam this week because he thinks the United States has been too intolerant of the religion since September 11.
I think the London Underground bombers were saying pretty much the same thing, wouldn't you agree, Chuck?
Perhaps Charlie ma-boy Favors the Sunni variety. In Indonesia, two Christian schoolgirls were beheaded
This guy is a one man argument for republicanism. I guess the good news is the Monarch is a powerless postion and he can't be elected PM.
Britain hasn't had real good luck with King Chucks, has it?
The Prince, who leaves on Tuesday for an eight-day tour of the US, has voiced private concerns over America's "confrontational" approach to Muslim countries and its failure to appreciate Islam's strengths. Dhimmi. *spit*
Or, maybe His Royal Heinie likes the Shia variety, the terrorist so-called President of Iran voiced how Israel should be wiped off the map.
We're very slowly getting away from finding virtues where none exist, though...
The Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla)will accompany her husband SNL should rerun some of the skits from the intercepted phone calls between Chuck and Cammy.
The Prince raised his concerns when he met senior Muslims in London in November 2001. The gathering took place just two months after the attacks on New York and Washington. "I find the language and rhetoric coming from America too confrontational," the Prince said, according to one leader at the meeting. Unlike what comes from Tehran.
It wasn't Buckingham Palace or Parliament that was blown up, was it, Chuck?
Britian didnât have 3000 of its citizens turned into DNA goo in an instant.
It is understood that Prince Charles did not - and does not - believe that the actions of 19 hijackers should tarnish the reputation of hundreds of millions of law-abiding Muslims around the world. And no one ever said it did. Well, maybe a few 'burgers did extrapolate. But they have a few more data points than 9/11. We could send you a list to review, Chuck. But it might be difficult for someone with your attention span to comprehend.
But silence about the actions does.
There are lots of Moose limbs who aren't blood-thirsty murderers. We don't have a bitch with them. Our problem is weeding out the kind of scum who cut people's heads off and boom buses and World Trade Centers from the guys who go to work every day and try to be good citizens.
Khalid Mahmood, the Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Bar, was also at the meeting at St James's Palace. "His criticism of America was a general one of the Americans not having the appreciation we have for Islam and its culture," he said.
Like the fellow who murdered his daughter in St. Louis some years ago, and members of his family screamed at the jury who sent him to prison for life about such a lack of appreciation.
Why didn't he just say, "Megadittos, Chuck."?
His Highness doesn't read the Pak press very often, I take it?
Mr Mahmood and other Muslims present stressed that Prince Charles did not go so far as to criticise the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
More recently, he has been careful not to express his views on Iraq.
Tony Blair has to approve the Royal Household Budget each year
He knows not to get Tony pissed or the rest of the tapes will be released.
The Prince also spoke of his sympathy for America after the terrorist attacks that claimed the lives of almost 3,000 people. He said he wanted to promote better relations between the different religions of the world.
Why does he think that hehas to be a self-proclaimed promoter.
Isn't this guy related to George III?
Relations would improve dramatically if one of them didn't call for the destruction of the others...
Those present at the meeting in 2001 included Sir Iqbal Sacrani, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, and Hashir Faruqi, the chief editor of Impact International, an Islamic affairs magazine.
Butt kissing â Why do all those front organizations for netherious(sp?) activity have a âSecretary Generalâ?
Prince Charles, who is about to embark on his first official foreign tour since his marriage to the Duchess of Cornwall, wants Americans - including Mr Bush - to share his fondness for Islam.
After all, we've been given such good reason...
He has agreed to attend a seminar on religions at Georgetown University, Washington, on Thursday: the only event where he will not be accompanied by the Duchess. I don't think that's going to happen for about 3,000 reasons I can think of off the rop of my head. I hope the reception is so cold all fears of global warming disappear. Is Cammy skipping the conference because it's one of those men only Muslim things?
"The seminar will look at how faith groups can alleviate social problems in their community," a royal aide said. Guffaw!
How about quit justifying murder based on Israelâs existence
The Prince and Duchess will attend a lunch and dinner with President Bush and his wife, Laura, at the White House on Wednesday.
"Laura, Prince Chuck is coming for dinner! Does the chef have any kippers?"
"I don't know, George. What is a kipper?"
"Maybe the chef knows."
"Maybe I should google it?"
"Oh, and I think he's bringing Whatsername."
"Oh. The tampon lady."
Prince Charles has done more than any other member of the Royal Family in history to understand Islam. He said in 1994 that when he became Supreme Governor of the Church of England, he would rather be "defender of faiths" than "defender of the faith". Why don't they just make it Defender of the Dhimmis?
PC Politically Correct/Prince Charles
Defender of Dar al-Islam has a nice ring to it.
Wonder if he owns a pair of curly-toed slippers?
He's got the hat already. But if he's gonna be "defender of faiths" plural, that would imply that he's going to defend them against something. The only thing threatening faiths-plural at the moment is militant Islam, which wants kill us all or convert us to militant Islam. Does that mean he's gonna lead a crusade? Or even an upper-case Crusade? I wonder which side he'll be on?
A year earlier Prince Charles made a speech, acclaimed throughout the Arab world, on relations between Islam and the West. He urged the West to overcome its "unthinkable prejudices" about Islam and its customs and laws.
Get turned on by Burquas, do ya Chaz?
Will his coronation be presided over by the Imam of Canterbury or Finsbury Park?
It's going to take me awhile to get over my "unthinkable prejudices" against a religion whose proponents call for lopping things off â women's genitalia, thieves' hands, infidels' heads, that sort of thing. I'm so unsophisticated, I may go to my grave not getting over that "unthinkable prejudice." Should Prince Chuck become Charles III, chances will increase that I'll go to my grave without my noggin. You guys have any Cromwells left over there?
He spoke warmly of the West's debt to the culture of Islam and distanced moderate Muslims from misguided militants. "Extremism is no more the monopoly of Islam than it is the monopoly of other religions, including Christianity," he said.
Whereâd I see a story about Christians beheading Muslim schoolgirls in a Christian majority country? And Warmly? How warm was the 75th story of the WTC on 9/11/01
It's not a monopoly, no, but they are trying to corner the market...
A senior aide to Prince Charles said yesterday: "The Prince has never promoted political messages around religion. He has simply said that he wants a greater tolerance and understanding of each other religions which will, in turn, promote better relations between faiths." Can't we all just get along?
Queue KUM-BAY-A
A spokesman for Clarence House declined to discuss the Prince's comments four years ago. "We never discuss private conversations," he said. Especially concering insertions of bodily parts into orifices.
Convenient out. Flunquis wants to keep getting a paycheck.
Prince Charles has been wooing the US media ahead of next week's tour when he will visit New York, Washington and San Francisco. It is considered a risky venture because Diana, Princess of Wales, who died eight years ago, was so revered in the US. NY, DC, SF. How did he miss Boston and Seattle?
MSM? He still thinks the real folks take them seriously anymore? HA!
In an interview to be shown on CBS's 60 Minutes today, he speaks of his desire to enrich people's lives through his work. "I only hope that when I am dead and gone they might appreciate it a little more," he jokes.
Enrich? 60 Minutes? Joke? As to the last one, the only laughing I am hearing is from Osama buried under earthquake rubble in a cave in Pakistan
I know I'll appreicate everything about him much more when he's dead and gone. The sooner the better. 'nshallah.
Nevertheless, Charlie can still be King if he does the following:
-Divests himself of all stock in Muslim controlled or collaborationist companies.
-Publicly repudiates his Islamophilic statements,
-Publicly burns his Arab costumes, and agrees to dress like a civilized Englishmen rather than a Mohammedan cutthroat.
-Substitutes "bloodthirsty saracen" for "muslim" in all public statements.
-Performs due penance by dressing in sackcloth and ashes and personally carrying a cross from London to Bladon------there to lie prostrate before the grave of Winston Churchill for three days and three nights while flagellating himself with a cat-o'-nine-tails.
-Gets Camilla's teeth fixed and issues a public apology for letting her wear a weed in her hair at their wedding.
Failing that, there is The Republic (of Britain) a mass movement that seeks to abolish the monarchy.
According to them, "much of the population views the succession of Prince Charles with little enthusiasm, including many monarchists."
That is an understatement. Elizabeth II cannot live forever (though her mum gave it a good shot) and there are dark forebodings about the succession. Republic's website says that "Now is the time."
They could be right.
It is reported at LGF, with the BBC as the alleged source, that "Prince Charles has revealed that he used to sing to seals as a child with his grandmother near her Highland home."
So, he digs marine mammals as well as well as the barnyard variety (like Camilla).
Prince of Whales?
Maybe the death of Dody Al Fayad, a Muslim, with Princess Diana led to some sort of bizarre post-mortem psychic threesome and Charlie's subsequent Islamophilia.
#6
My wife says I can sleep in the doghouse for that last one.
My wonder dog, Roswell the Atomic Poodle, always sleeps in our bed anyway, so it won't inconvenience him in the least.
#11
"I find the language and rhetoric coming from America too confrontational," the Prince said, according to one leader at the meeting.
But of course. Perhaps this is because utterance of said rhetoric involves the production of a substance known as testosterone, a hormonal compound by which you are entirely uncontaminated.
He urged the West to overcome its "unthinkable prejudices" about Islam and its customs and laws.
Sure, just as soon as they get over "wiping Israel off of the map" and "death to the great satan" and other such niggling little nusiances.
A spokesman for Clarence House declined to discuss the Prince's comments four years ago. "We never discuss private conversations," he said.
Especially when it involves such infidelitous aspirations as "living in your trousers" dear Camilla.
NOTE TO CHARLES: Islamic leaders will find everything about you irresistable, especially your ears, as they will give them something to grasp whilst you service them appropriately.
#13
He's following in the tradition of his great-uncle Edward VIII, and not only by marrying someone deeply unpopular and widely regarded as inappropriate. Edward was a well known and notorious Nazi sympathizer who is alledged to have passed information to Germany and who travelled to meet Hitler after his abdication. He was given to regrettable public pronouncements about the prospect of Nazi victory.
The British Royals are a powerful argument against in-breeding. Lacking a moral compass, their main interest is in retaining their phony-baloney positions regardless of what sort of nation they "rule".
Posted by: Baba Tutu ||
10/30/2005 1:06 Comments ||
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#14
Ground chuck anyone?
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/30/2005 1:22 Comments ||
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#15
Ohhh big ears....you inbred fuck.
Story line:
George W. Bush's week went from bad to great after taking out his frustrations on "Big Ears" better known as the Prince of Whales.
GWB saying today after knocking out several of the Princes teeth. "That stupid fucking limey thought he could lecture me...after the week I had I just could not take it anymore. So I punched him, hell it felt so good I just could not stop. My best shot was the upper cut that knock out most of Big Ears front teeth. I think I am going keeping them. I mean this idiot gave up Princess Di for that cow he is married to now..that came across my mind while I was pummeling the limey bastard"
#18
Lol, SE! Coming from someone who posted only two, is demonstrably poorly informed (MBA Yale - and you, fuckwit?), and couldn't make a case beyond an extremely lame Moonbat talking point, that's, well, that's just pathetic, lol. Where, pray tell, do you go for your intel, alGuardian or DU? Poor child. Drowning in the Kool Aid and no one cares. So sad, little one. Do fuck off, lol.
#19
"Chuck of Eurabia" is swaddled with romanticism.
some Brits cannot shake of their hereditary sympathy to the arabs.
I think by now Manchester has more MosKKKKKs than Curches. Maybe he should deal with the accelerating Islamization of his country instead of patronizing the americans ?
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/30/2005 5:08 Comments ||
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#20
I already posted that, but it is still valid :
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/119 Is Prince Charles a Convert to Islam?
November 9, 2003
Is Prince Charles a Convert to Islam? In a 1997 Middle East Quarterly article titled "Prince Charles of Arabia," Ronni L. Gordon and David M. Stillman looked at evidence that Britain's Prince Charles might be a secret convert to Islam. They shifted through his public statements (defending Islamic law, praising the status of Muslim women, seeing in Islam a solution for Britain's ailments) and actions (setting up a panel of twelve "wise men" to advise him on Islamic religion and culture), then concluded that, "should Charles persist in his admiration of Islam and defamation of his own culture," his accession to the throne will indeed usher in a "different kind of monarchy."
All this comes to mind on reading an article titled "Charles Breaks Fast with the Faithful in Muscat" in today's Dubai-based Gulf News, which reports on some of Charles' activities during his current five-day visit to Oman:
He toured the Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosque for almost two hours and "took keen interest in studying various sections at the mosque, including the main prayer hall." As his spokesman put it, "The Prince was particularly keen to come to the mosque today to see the fantastic building and remarkable architecture which Prince was fascinated with. The Prince has a great love for Islamic architecture and I can't think of finer example than this mosque."
He "spent a considerable time at an exhibition of Islamic calligraphy and held meetings with Sheikha Aisha Al Siaby, Head of Public Authority for Craft Industries and Taha Al Kisri, the Head of Omani Society for Fine Arts to discuss various aspects of Islamic art."
He "broke fast with a large congregation of people from different nationalities as he sat with folded legs on the floor in the open. He ate date and drank juice at the call of Iftar."
None of this, of course, is evidence that the Heir to the British Throne has changed religions, but his actions most certainly would be consistent with such a move, and especially the implication that he had kept the Ramadan fast. (November 9, 2003)
Dec. 18, 2004 update: Prince Charles put himself in the middle of an Islamic theological issue that again could suggest his conversion to Islam â for if that is not the case, then on what basis does he opine on the Islamic law requiring that apostates from Islam be executed? Jonathan Petre of London's Daily Telegraph reports on a private summit of Christian and Muslim leaders at Clarence House on this topic sponsored earlier in December by the prince. Apparently, however, he did not get the results he hoped for, with one Christian participant indicating that Charles was "very, very unhappy" about its outcome. That may have been because the Muslims at the meeting resented his public involvement in this topic.
July 14, 2005 update: And what does the good prince have to say about the murder by Islamists of 55 in London a week ago? He put fingers to keyboard and produced "True Muslims Must Root Out The Extremists" for the Mirror.
some deeply evil influence has been brought to bear on these impressionable young minds. ⦠Some may think this cause is Islam. It is anything but. It is a perversion of traditional Islam. As I understand it, Islam preaches humanity, tolerance and a sense of community. ⦠these acts have nothing to do with any true faith. ⦠it is vital that everyone resists the temptation to condemn the Muslim community for the actions of such a tiny and evil minority. If we succumb to that temptation, the bombers will have achieved their aim. Likewise, in my view, it is the duty of every true Muslim to condemn these atrocities and root out those among them who preach and practise such hatred and bitterness.
Comment: This sounds to me like the same apologetics churned out by the Muslim Council of Britain and other Islamist bodies.
Aug. 2, 2005 update: At the funeral of King Fahd in Riyadh, the Associated Press reports, "Non-Muslims were not allowed at the ceremonies." So far as I can tell, Charles did not attend the ceremonies. (There surely would have been a press uproar if he had.) We can conclude that whatever his inner faith, he is not presenting himself as a Muslim in public.
Sept. 4, 2005 update: Prince Charles revealed in a letter leaked to the Daily Telegraph that he had strained relations with George Carey, then archbishop of Canterbury, over his attitude toward Islam. Particularly contentious was his expressed intent, on becoming king and supreme governor of the Church of England, to ditch the centuries' old defender of the faith title and replace it with defender of faith and defender of the Divine. The letter reveals the archbishop's reaction.
I wish you'd been there for the archbishop! Didn't really appreciate what I was getting at by talking about "the Divine" and felt that I had said far more about Islam than I did about Christianity - and was therefore worried about my development as a Christian.
According to royal aides, Charles did not much respect Lord Carey's views and the feelings were reciprocated.
I've read elsewhere that he converted to sufism, in Turkey.
#21
But kissing â Why do all those front organizations for netherious(sp?) activity have a âSecretary Generalâ?
should be Butt kissing â Why do all those front . . .
#24
Any institution that permits or overlooks the activity of psycopaths in it's midst does not deserve respect or consideration. We should not be prosecuting the Mafia out of respect for Scicilian widows?
This man Oprah in Drag will never be a leader stand up to pee. He beatifies bullies.
Posted by: john ||
10/30/2005 7:15 Comments ||
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#25
So our "language and rhetoric" towards Muslims is too confrontational? Rather than the converse?? The world sure looks different through dhimmi goggles.
#26
Royal twit.
The problem isn't us, it's Islam. It's shameful that jug eared inbred won't admit that simple and plain fact.
But then again, most Americans won't either.
#32
What I meant by Islams strengths is that instead of the whole "Diana" thing becoming a fiasco like it was, had I been muslim, I could have just beat her silly, told her to shut the f*ck up and taken on the mistress as a new wife and I would have been praised in the press. I got in trouble because I am christian, which does not have those same strengths.
Posted by: Prince Charles ||
10/30/2005 8:58 Comments ||
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#33
Maybe instead of Defender of the Faith he could be Commander of the Faithful (Ameerul Momineen).
#35
I find all this talk coming from the colonies--well, just very disturbing. Can't we all just get along and stop this bickering over the Islam. It is a religion of peace and understanding and love. The bombings in London were just a terrible misunderstanding by poor disenfranchised believers. We should adopt their dress as a sign of trying to get along. Everyone should be wear an asshat to commucicate our tolerance and understanding. We should become more tolerant of mooselimbs and believes in mo_ham_head.
Posted by: Prince of Wales ||
10/30/2005 9:43 Comments ||
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#36
So sorry about the grammar. Strike be and change believes to believer and everything should just be cricket.
Posted by: Prince of Wales ||
10/30/2005 9:47 Comments ||
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#37
Don't be so hard on Chuckles. He's just training to become the Caliph, since we all know he'll never be King of England. Are Tony and George planning on an Arabian Grand Tour and Squat? Keep an eye on Euro Disney ordering little stones for the Mecca Kaaba concession.
Posted by: ed ||
10/30/2005 10:15 Comments ||
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#38
a. The monarchy isn't even suitable for stoking tourism anymore.
b. I can no longer tell anyone that my ancestry includes England and Wales.
c. Why does this fool even have a meeting with Bush?
#39
There's definitely something wrong with a system that allows a non-entity such as Prince Kotex to have such easy access to the President, simply because of his family background.
Posted by: Embarrassed in the UK ||
10/30/2005 10:26 Comments ||
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#40
I wouldn't be surprised if Chuck was a ... Baha'i
http://www.bci.org/islam-bahai/BahaisIslam.htm
Posted by: Matt K. ||
10/30/2005 10:53 Comments ||
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#41
b. I can no longer tell anyone that my ancestry includes England and Wales
IIRC, his is German - House of Hanover [House of Windsor to appease the local crowd during that fratricidal period 1914-1918]. Not to be confused with the American branch, House of SCOTUS. Lifetime postion, unaccountable to the people.
#43
Hopefully this will convince the Queen that Prince William or preferably Prince Harry should follow her to the throne. Her children are just not up to the task.
#44
seems to be they have a good excuse to get rid of the whole damn royalty jokers now. How insane anyway to support these guys in such a high fashion, and for what?!
E in the UK, I agree, I hate that he'll get alot of free publicity here with an audience with the president et al.
ditto good picture here
Posted by: Jan ||
10/30/2005 12:19 Comments ||
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#49
"We have the Kennedys"
But we might be willing to consider a swap. Especially if we could get Princess Anne. She hasn't done anything discreditable in decades.
#53
losing situation if you think of the loss in alcohol taxes
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 18:29 Comments ||
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#54
Frankly yeap, yet funny.
Posted by: abu abu Mazan Mazan ||
10/30/2005 18:37 Comments ||
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#55
This could get very interesting. Says here that Queen Elizabeth (and thus Chuck) are descendants of Muhammad (MTLHMOHS), and so he might be able to claim more than merely honorary custodianship (assuming that Saudi-controlled Arabia is dismantled as per our expectation).
Posted by: James ||
10/30/2005 19:18 Comments ||
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#56
Assuming that Big Mo' really existed (and after reading Crossroads to Islam, I ain't sure anymore), we're all pretty much descended from Mo'ham'head and Confucius, and Caesar, and just about anyone else you can think of. Some statistician dude did this a study some time ago and found that after a millenia or so, we're pretty much all related. I think there was a summary article in the Atlantic, but I'm feeling too lazy to hunt it down.
#58
The Prince of Wales will try to persuade George W Bush and Americans of the merits of Islam this week because he thinks the United States has been too intolerant of the religion since September 11.
A foiled Chechen rebel assault on the Russian city of Nalchik this month was in fact a "grandiose" attempt to replicate the 11 September attacks and hijack five planes that could be flown into targets such as the Kremlin, a nuclear power station and other strategic facilities, it has been claimed. That alarming hypothesis has been put forward by an authoritative American intelligence provider called Stratfor that boasts of close links to the Russian and American security services. The information is being checked by Russia's Deputy Prosecutor Nikolai Shepel, who is investigating the attack on 13 October that left at least 120 people dead and took thousands of special forces to repel.
It was the most significant Chechen rebel attack since last September's Beslan school siege and its precise objective remains shrouded in mystery.
The Russian authorities have made no secret of the fact that the militants tried to seize Nalchik's airport and they arrested one of the attack's planners days before the assault with a detailed copy of the airport plans. One of the airport's top security officials was later arrested after he confessed to being the "inside man" and to having drawn the map for a relative who told him it was to be used to prosecute a jihad (holy war).
The Russian media has also reported that a stash of 500kg of explosives was uncovered in a factory close to the airport in the run-up to the attack and that a captured videotape purported to have been made for the Chechen warlord, Shamil Basayev, contained extensive footage of a Russian air show with a particular emphasis on military transport planes. However Stratfor's report Nalchik: the 9/11 That Wasn't is the most detailed account of such a scenario so far..
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2005 01:38 ||
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#1
so who is teaching the "pilots" how to takeoff?
Posted by: john ||
10/30/2005 7:23 Comments ||
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Aslan Maskhadov, the top Chechen rebel commander, was shot dead by his nephew who was acting as his bodyguard, a court investigation has shown.
Drat. For a moment I thought it was RB commenter Bodyguard.
The Russian daily newspaper Kommersant writes that the results of ballistic tests were read out on Thursday at a court session hearing the case of four of Maskhadovâs accomplices. The forensic experts have found that the bullet extracted from Maskhadovâs head had been fired from the pistol that belonged to his nephew Viskhan Khadzhimuratov, who acted as bodyguard for the so called president of the republic of Ichkeria. Khadzhimuratov himself said that he did not remember if he had shot Maskhadov, but admitted that Maskhadov had asked him to kill him if capture seemed inevitable and that he kept the gun ready for that purpose. âUncle always told me to shoot him if he was wounded and they attempted to take him prisoner. He said that if he was taken prisoner they would taunt him as they taunted Saddam Hussein,â Khadzhimuratov said.
Neener, neener. You're still dead, and we taunt you even now.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2005 01:37 ||
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A week ahead of parliamentary elections in Azerbaijan, the opposition believes it is on the cusp of a popular revolt similar to Ukraine's "Orange Revolution," analysts say. But although few others in this ex-Soviet republic, on the edge of the oil-rich Caspian Sea, believe a revolution will take hold, the aftermath of the November 6 polls is widely seen as crucial to the future and stability of the country.
"November 7 is going to be a key date. The opposition is going to try to stage massive street protests, in an attempted repeat of the Ukrainian scenario," said Fariz Ismailzade, an analyst with the Baku branch of Baltimore-based Johns Hopkins University. "The way the authorities react will be decisive," Ismailzade added.
Late last year, huge opposition demonstrations peacefully toppled Ukraine's pro-Moscow regime, following a rigged presidential election. Two other former Soviet republics, Georgia in 2003 and Kyrgyzstan earlier this year, experienced similar regime changes. In Azerbaijan too, the opposition has accused the authorities of intending to rig the upcoming vote and hardly a week has gone by without clashes between demonstrators and police.
President Ilham Aliyev last week sacked and arrested economic development minister Farkhad Aliyev and health minister Ali Insanov and arrested Farkhad Aliyev's wealthy brother Rafik, in connection to an alleged coup attempt. The three men face charges linking them to an alleged plot backing opposition efforts to bring about the overthrow of the regime. Several other officials have since been sacked and some of them arrested. But for all this, there is a key difference between Azerbaijan and Ukraine, Ismailzade said: while in Ukraine security forces refused to use force against demonstrators, here they remain unflinchingly loyal to the authorities.
As a result, protests in Azerbaijan could lead to unrest and even bloodshed, warned Rashad Rzaquliyev, an analyst with the Eurasia Foundation of Strategic Cooperation. The head of Azerbaijan's Islamic Party, Haji Aga Nuriyev, agreed. "If they go for revolution, Azerbaijan will become impossible to control," said the candidate from Nardaran, a devoutly Islamic village near Baku renowned for mounting major anti-government protests in 2002.
Washington, which is increasingly influential in the southern Caucasus region, is keeping a close eye on Azerbaijan. On the day Aliyev began purging his cabinet, Daniel Fried, the US assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, was holding a press conference in a Baku hotel. "Revolutions are an indication of failure. It is far better to achieve democracy through reforms and free elections," said Fried, just out of a meeting with Aliyev.
A U.S. official warned Oct. 28 that North Koreaâs mass production and distribution of counterfeit U.S. currency is likely funding the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Stuart Levey, the U.S. Treasuryâs undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, said his government is extremely concerned about Pyongyangâs production of large amounts of high-quality fake U.S. bills. âYou have to come to the conclusion that the counterfeit is supporting the proliferation,â he said. Levey said the high-quality counterfeits, also known as Supernotes, were eventually laundered to fund illicit activities of the reclusive Stalinist regime. âThere are a variety of ways that counterfeit currency can be put into legitimate financial system and ultimately laundered so it produces value for the government of North Korea,â he said. âItâs something that we take extraordinarily seriously,â he said, declining to put a value to the fake notes that have been distributed.
Last week the United States blacklisted eight North Korean entities as proliferators of weapons of mass destruction and froze whatever assets they had under U.S. jurisdiction. It also prohibited all transactions between U.S. citizens and the entities, according to a statement from the Treasury Department. The statement said the move was part of a U.S. effort to combat unconventional weapons trafficking âby blocking the property of entities and individuals that engage in proliferation activities and their support networks.â Washington has also sought the extradition of the head of an Irish Republican Army splinter group charged with conspiring with Pyongyang to distribute bogus U.S. notes in Eastern Europe and Britain. North Korea claims to have produced the atomic bomb, and says it needs the weapons to fight off the threat of aggression from the United States.
#1
Seems to me this would provide a good legal rationale for stopping and searching all shipping
leaving North Korea. A straight out criminal investigation of a counterfeiting gang. If nothing shows up on the ships, then its time to close their airspace, since the bills would have to be going out on planes. Theres no way China or Russia would allow them out overland.
#2
The Nork gov [personality Cult] hasn't really had a can of whoop ass consequences opened up on them since the Korean war. Since then they've commited all kinds of crimes, some of them acts of war. Puleblo, blowing up airlines, killing our soldiers DMZ, kidnapping, 100s of millions of US counterfeit dollars etc.
Grunter:Theres no way China or Russia would allow them out overland.
I know for certain suspect China is hip deep in Korean Kimchee.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/30/2005 4:46 Comments ||
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#3
Sory, Red Dog, forgot the irony tags on that last sentence...
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/30/2005 17:12 Comments ||
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#5
North Korea's counterfeiting of American currency is but a single facet of communist China's undeclared (but very real) economic war upon the United States. Without China's support, North Korea would have imploded long ago. The communist Mandarins have much to answer for and, sadly, equally little to fear from America's politicians.
KIM Beazley faces an internal Labor Party revolt on two fronts today over failing to argue against "draconian" anti-terrorism legislation and unveiling his own proposal to ban books that promote hate and violence.
A meeting of the ALP's national Left faction passed a motion yesterday warning state premiers and Mr Beazley that proposed anti-terrorism laws could breach the ALP's platform.
The meeting, attended by numerous state and federal MPs, including Julia Gillard, Kim Carr and deputy leader Jenny Macklin, demanded that "all ALP state premiers, chief ministers and members of the federal parliamentary Labor Party act consistently with the ALP's platform and Australia's international law obligations".
Senior ALP figures were also exasperated by Mr Beazley's decision to announce his own vilification laws yesterday, saying he was "mangling the message".
The proposal to link the terrorism laws with his separate reforms to ban racial and religious vilification also angered colleagues because the confusing laws had not been discussed with the front bench.
"Getting up and suggesting the Jewish community of Australia should be wiped off the face of the earth would be illegal, absolutely," Mr Beazley said in Canberra yesterday. "There would be appropriate fines and, if severe enough, appropriate incarceration."
As revealed by The Weekend Australian on Saturday, John Howard had agreed to a compromise with the states to ensure greater judicial review of terror suspects held without charge, to allow prisoners to seek legal remedy including compensation and a five-year review of the legislation.
The Prime Minister is waiting on a response from the all-Labor premiers today before introducing the counter-terrorism laws into the parliament by the end of the week.
However, Mr Beazley had called for a watering down of the terror legislation to ensure greater judicial review of the proposed control and detention orders, although he now supports new penalties - including jail - for "hate books and violent preaching".
"The thing I have in mind is the sort of things that appear in the hate books, that it is a good thing to kill Jews or Christians or Muslims," Mr Beazley said.
Mr Howard quickly dismissed the plans as "confusing".
"You can't graft racial vilification laws into the law relating to sedition," Mr Howard said on the Nine Network's Sunday program.
"Last week I thought the problem with these laws was that they trampled on people's rights. Now he's saying they're not tough enough. I'm confused and I think the public is confused."
NSW Law Council president John North, a critic of the Howard Government's anti-terrorism laws, said Mr Beazley's proposal was "ridiculous".
"There are existing vilification laws and we should not be legislating on the run for something as important as freedom of speech in this country," he said.
"You can't ban the books; we can't go there. Mr Beazley must know he is opening a can of worms if he wants to start banning books with suspect ideology."
NSW Labor MP Daryl Melham said he remained concerned that people could be held under the new control orders on the grounds that they trained with a terrorist organisation even though it may not have been officially listed or regarded as such at the time.
"What we are having here is the states sanctioning their agencies to terrorise their citizens," he said.
"I just think it's unacceptable. We didn't outlaw some of these (organisations) until recent years. This is a terrorising of people who engaged in behaviour that was not illegal at the time in Australia."
Prominent Labor frontbencher Peter Garrett also raised concerns that the "dog's breakfast" of laws could be used to target writers and artists.
"Our bedrock rights to free speech, to due process under law, to confidence that the separation of the judiciary from the executive will stand against the arbitrary exercise of power are all in danger of being swept away by this Government," he said.
However, Victorian Labor MP Michael Danby said support for tougher terror laws was widespread in the community, including in his own inner-city electorate. "Melbourne Ports has lost three people to suicide bombers," he said.
"Even in small-l liberal, inner-city Melbourne, people want to be secure from terrorism. But the federal opposition and the Labor premiers will only agree if there are appropriate safeguards on police use of lethal force and control orders."
Opposition homeland security spokesman Arch Bevis said that the ALP had already agreed to a statement of principles that would include strong legal safeguards.
"There has to be a genuine judicial review, not rubber stamping by courts," he said.
"It's the prospect that Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi could be found guilty of sedition under these laws."
Tasmanian Labor MP Duncan Kerr said he had sent a submission to all state attorneys-general and senior Labor frontbenchers over his concerns.
Mr Howard said he wasn't wedded to introducing the bill on Melbourne Cup day, but he did want to get the bill through parliament before the end of year and certainly effective by the March Games in Melbourne.
He was backed by NSW Attorney-General Bob Debus, who said the laws should be in place for the Games, but not so quickly as to get it wrong.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
10/30/2005 11:55 ||
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#1
Nice MP5, dood.
Posted by: jolly roger ||
10/30/2005 19:09 Comments ||
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The U.S. Army is responsible for protecting some senior Iraqi government officials, but not with U.S. troops and equipment. Experienced civilians (Iraqi and foreign) can be hired and equipped with armor, weapons and other gear that is available on the open market. But some very special equipment; electronic jammers to disable roadside bombs (IEDs, or Improvised Explosive Device) was harder to find. So hard, that the army had to post a request, on the Federal Business Opportunities Web site, looking for a dozen COTS (Commercial, Off The Shelf), electronic counter measure systems, for shutting down the signals that trigger roadside bombs. These devices are not difficult to build, and this request tells non-American manufacturers to put together these devices. U.S. law prohibits the use of American gear to protect foreigners (the Iraqi officials.) Sigh. Paying our hard earned money to create foreign competition. Why do I suspect some inbred eastern trust fund Yaley doing his "national service" for coming up with this brilliant idea.
So American firms are locked out from this deal. These jammers will cost a lot more than the ones U.S. troops are using, because the foreign company will have to do a bit of research and development before that can do the manufacturing. But the foreign manufacturer will now have a âU.S. Army approvedâ product to sell to other foreigners, living in areas where remote-control roadside bombs have become popular. By not making the American jammers available to foreigners, there is less risk that this equipment will fall into the wrong hands, where it will be analyzed for vulnerabilities terrorists can exploit. Better to pay US dollars to US companies to modify, or develop from scratch, jammers for the foreign market.
Posted by: ed ||
10/30/2005 11:46 ||
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#1
More bureaucratic idiocy. (I know, I know, that's redundant.) All it should take is hooking up a reverse biased police scanner to a microwave klystron and a multi-element dipole antenna.
The U.S. Army is unlikely to increase itâs size, given current recruiting problems. The army really doesnât want to increase its strength, knowing that each additional soldier will cost an average of $150,000 a year. The army knows that Congress is basically grandstanding by demanding that troop strength must be increased, but will not provide sufficient money to maintain those extra troops. Thus the army will have to cut back on training and new equipment in order to pay for the additional troops that are not wanted. To deal with the demands of Iraq and Afghanistan, the army is doing some long-overdue housecleaning. So far, about 40,000 troops have been shifted from support to combat jobs. This has caused some ill-will among some of the troops transferred, especially among female soldiers, who are not as keen on the âfield armyâ life as are most male troops. But the army has not experienced any fall in re-enlistments because of this. Troops know, far better than Congress or the folks-back-home, that there is a war on, and that the army is winning it. While under orders to keep quiet about the âwhen will the troops return from Iraqâ subject, planners can track the growth in Iraqi police and army strength, against the decline in terrorist attacks, and support. U.S. Army troops strength in Iraq will be declining soon, and the risks of being in Iraq are already declining. Thus by the time the army got any new troops, as demanded by Congress, it would have nothing for them to do.
Posted by: ed ||
10/30/2005 11:38 ||
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#1
For FY 2004 [1 Oct 2003-30 Sep 2004] the Army was authorized about 480,000 personnel by law [excluding activated Reserves and National Guard]. It closed FY 2005 on 30 Sep 2005 with around 492,000 personnel with the new increase authorized. What recruiting problems? Yeah they were authorized 10,000 more above that, but that requires additional personnel shifts to cover training and sustaining that training base. Considering that this is the first increase since the mid-90s, several years after 9/11, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
#4
The donks are condescending, trivalizing soldiers by making them political cannon fodder. How else do you explain seeking more troops while demanding a premature withdrawal.
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/30/2005 15:27 Comments ||
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#5
internal consistentency of logic in speeches is not a characteristic of the Democrats - they've usually stolen them from different sources
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 15:46 Comments ||
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#6
And there you go again, Biden. Now you've even sunk to the level of plagiarizing nyms. Sheesh, d00d. :)
#8
Heh. Feeling "better", today... a little exposition of some of what lurks in the heart of hearts - but isn't allowed out - except in an Official RB ranty-rant.
[mini-rant]
Enough of this apologetic BS for being successful, powerful, and right. And no fucking doubt we're on the right track - and those biting our ankles are on the dumbass track, are failing economically, can't feed themselves, and are toothless cowards. Fuck 'em. No more apologies, no more aid, nor more negotiating. The Big Dawg's barking and you'd better bare your belly lickety-split, cheesedick.
Enough dithering and pandering to SIG's and pork-barrel bitches. Fuck 'em. Fuck Stevens and his bridge to nowhere. Should've accepted his resignation on the spot and moved on to real business. Gutless cowards. And the Dhimmidonks? No more of this disloyal opposition BS. They wouldn't play nice or fair even if they were holding the reins. Eat shit, Dhimmidonks. You've lied and weaseled and fucked over our kids and our education system, our civil institutions, our way of life, our troops -- our entire nation a coupla millions times too often, already. You're out. Get a job. When you understand that loyalty, patriotism, values, ethics, courage, honesty, and devotion aren't fucking talking points but real aspects of real people then send a letter. Meanwhile, get to work and earn a place in this society. Parasites.
No more dipshit talking-head shows with lying assholes spinning reality into fantasy. No more cutesy Katie ex-Cheerleader morons with more makeup than brains sucking up to assholes live on the boob tube. Russert and the rest of the parasites and spies can get real jobs. Drilling an ANWR or cleaning the restrooms at the local Exxon station, perhaps. Who cares? I don't. Fuck 'em. They're 'B' Ark twerps and not worth the largess wasted on them. Pick up that bowl brush or die, asshole.
On the M.E. and Arabs and Islam and Socialists and Maoists and Stalinists and Tranzis and Moonbats and everyone else who carries a fucking sign instead of doing something productive... die. Get a job and contribute, or die.
Personally, I'm all out of the sympathy thingy. We gave it a shot - twice. Too costly. No more nation building BS. Regime changes. We wax it - you wimps rebuild. And if we think it's another dangerous shithead regime, we'll wax that one, too. Rinse and fucking repeat until there's a goddamned Disneyland on every corner.
No more pissant corrupt kleptocrat UN's or anything of the like. They're simply worthless wankfests and a huge drain for no value. No more niches to hide your dead-weight relatives or friends. All "diplomats" are on notice: fuck off, get out, or die. You've sucked the tit too long - get a job and cover some of the rent of making the world safe or go on the schedule. The tit's run dry. Got resources? Okay, we'll take 'em, thanks. Anything else? No? Then straighten up and fly right or wander the Empty Quarter. Fuck you. You're all cowardly backstabbing shits who deserve no place at The Big Table. You've been suffered far too long - playtime's over. Contribute to a better world or leave it tuit suite. No substitutions, no exceptions.
Yo, "world leaders". Have you worked to fuck us over? Have you led your country into a morass of Tranzi idiocy, wasted their resources on yourself and your buddies, screwed them and lied to them and sold them the pipe-dream that they can get something for nothing and told them who to love, who to hate? Well now, we've got a special mission for you: Live Executions on World-Wide TV. You're the star attractions. It'll be free. We'll present the case, your lies and propaganda, and fry you up. No appeal, no lawyers, just you and Old Sparky. Thanks for playing.
ISMS. Yo, tech thieves. Think you're gonna whip us with our own innovations? Think you'll out-wait us and move in when we've exhausted ourselves trying to help the total idiots wake up to democracy and simple capitalism - while you steal everything not nailed down? Nah - we've decided to stop that stupid shit. Hey, Doc, it hurts when I do this. Well don't do it, twit. Yep, we've bought a clue - and stopped. And we're onto you. We get it. So, whatcha gonna do now? We'll beat you like a red-headed stepchild - just cuz you deserve it. You're parasites. Second-rate clueless schemers and corrupt despots. You're going down. We'll dream up a special punishment just for you. No more Middle Kingdom. So sad. We'll play with your precious artifacts, pass 'em around at parties. It'll be really interesting. You won't be there to see it. If the peasants want a bamboo saw to work on your necks, we'll televise it. But you're screwed. The gig's up, You dam's coming down and you're toast.
And those who think they've reinvented the Mafia, lol, yeah - you're really tough. You couldn't field a division that could lace up its own boots. We're gonna retire your labs and launch sites and biowarfare and the lot. We'll just come over and take what we like. Whatcha gonna do? No, really, whatcha gonna do? Think you can stop us? Think you can survive until we're outta gas and outta time? Lol. Fat chance - we've just changed the schedule. Our labs are far more advanced - and the game has changed. We woke up. You're no threat. You're drinking yourselves into the grave when you're not selling the last scraps from the cupboard for a few pieces of silver. You've been around too long. Time to go, now. So you're an idol, huh? To a failing society of off-course losers? Lol. Everything is crumbling down around your ears. Eat reality, bitch.
And if the other fuckwit Dhimmi Tranzi Moonbat Kool Aid cunts of the world don't like it, well fuck them too - send your coordinates and we'll put you on the schedule. For spot clean-ups, hunter / killer teams. Lots of them. And they will start here at home - say Hyannisport. Enough of this walk softly shit - and that's the only criticism of TDR I'll ever utter. He had it right on 99% of the rest - as did Gen Sherman. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. We'll go back to the tolerance thingy right after we start getting some from the assholes of the world. Fuck 'em. All.
Patience doesn't grow on trees and we're fresh out. Sorry. Ain't it a bitch?
Hey, it's what we're all thinking, lol.
[/mini-rant]
And now I feel even better. I think I'll call Glorious Golden Gloria for some fun and a night on the town, lol.
#10
Personally, I'm all out of the sympathy thingy. We gave it a shot - twice. Too costly. No more nation building BS. Regime changes. We wax it - you wimps rebuild. And if we think it's another dangerous shithead regime, we'll wax that one, too. Rinse and fucking repeat until there's a goddamned Disneyland on every corner.
Preach it, brother! Keep on waxing until there's an unsightly yellow buildup.
WASHINGTON - The United States is inviting independent human rights experts from the United Nations to visit detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba almost four years after the UN first asked permission to inspect the prison. Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros said the invitation âwas extended in an effort to broaden understanding of US detention operations and to demonstrate that detainees at Guantanamo are treated humanely.â
There is no set timeline for the visit. The three observers will meet with commanders at the facility as well as medical staff and interrogation staff, but they will have no interaction with the detainees. They will be able to observe the detainees during recreation time, religious observances and other periods.
US officials have allowed only the International Committee of the Red Thingy Cross to visit detainees at Guantanamo.
In a statement issued on Friday, the Pentagon said, âThe department strives for transparency in our operation to the extent possible in light of security and operational requirements and the need to ensure the safety of our forces.â
The three observers are: Dr. Manfred Nowak, an expert on torture and inhumane treatment; Asma Jahangir, an expert on religious rights and freedoms; and Leila Zerrougui, an expert on arbitrary detention.
Your UN contribution dollars at work.
Seven of the detainees on the hunger strike are hospitalised and being force-fed, according to the government. Some of the others also are being fed involuntarily.
The strikers allege that feeding tubes are inserted without using anesthesia or sedatives and that tubes are being reused without proper sanitization. Some detainees have been fasting since Aug. 8. Dr. John Edmondson, commander of the US Navy Hospital at Guantanamo and head of the detainee hospital, has denied all of the detainee allegations, saying tubes are always inserted using a lubricant, an anesthetic is offered âin all cases,â and new tubes are used every time a detainee has to be fed involuntarily.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Welcome to the Hotel California. You can check it out but you can never leave.
#4
ROFL, Sea! Cheeze, I tells ya, my face can't take this torture, lol. And I was about to make some tea. I'm gonna be mighty careful tonight, thar be snarks about, lol.
#8
The United States is inviting independent human rights experts from the United Nations to visit detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba almost four years after the UN first asked permission to inspect the prison.
#3
Now go watch Shithan and the LLL run with this claiming that the U.S. Military killed 25,902 anod not the terroristsinsurgants Minutemen/freedom fighters.
Saddam Hussein accepted an 11th-hour offer to flee into exile weeks ahead of the U.S.-led 2003 invasion, but Arab League officials scuttled the proposal, officials in this Gulf state claimed.
The exile initiative was spearheaded by the late president of the United Arab Emirates, Sheik Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, at an emergency Arab summit held in Egypt in February 2003, Sheik Zayed's son said in an interview aired by Al-Arabiya TV during a documentary. The U.S.-led coalition invaded on March 19 that year.
A top government official confirmed the offer on Saturday, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
Saddam allegedly accepted the offer to try halt the invasion and bring elections to
Iraq within six months, claimed the official and Sheik Zayed's son.
"We had the final acceptance of the various parties ... the main players in the world and the concerned person, Saddam Hussein," the son, Sheik Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, said during the program aired Thursday to mark the first anniversary of his father's death.
Sheik Zayed's initiative would have given Saddam and his family exile and guarantees against prosecution in return for letting Arab League and U.N. experts run Iraq until elections could be held in six months, the official said.
"We were coming (to the summit in Egypt's Sharm el-Sheikh resort) to place the facts on the table," said Sheik Mohammed, who is deputy chief of the Emirates armed forces and crown prince of Abu Dhabi.
"The results would have emerged if the initiative was presented and discussed. This is now history."
The anonymous Emirates official said Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa did not bring the proposal to the summit's discussion because Arab foreign ministers had not presented and accepted it as league protocol dictated.
At the time, Arab League leaders said the summit decided not to take up the idea, citing league rules barring interference in members' domestic affairs.
It was not immediately possible to verify the Emirates claims that their offer had been accepted by Saddam, who is being held in U.S. military custody in Iraq and his facing trial on charges of crimes against humanity.
Officials from the Egypt-based 22-member Arab League declined to comment.
But at the 2003 summit, the Iraqi delegation rejected the Emirates proposal, while Iraq's former U.N. ambassador, Mohammed Al-Douri, said Saddam was not going anywhere.
The Al-Arabiya documentary claimed Iraqi officials had dismissed the idea because they did not know Saddam had accepted it.
Saddam himself remained defiant ahead of the U.S.-led onslaught and hid in Iraq until being captured in December 2003.
The speculation over Saddam's acceptance of the offer comes three years after the start of the Iraqi war.
The documentary also included an interview from Egypt's President
Hosni Mubarak, who said the United States was aware of the proposal.
In a January 2004 interview with British Channel 4 TV, ex-Lebanese President Amin Gemayel said Saddam had rejected calls to leave Iraq and end the 2003 standoff with the United States. Gemayel mediated between Saddam and the Bush administration.
One country that came up in the exile discussions was Belarus, but the Emirates official said some governments balked at offering sanctuary to Saddam's notorious sons, Odai and Qusai.
Almost all the Arab League's member states are Sunni Muslim-majority nations and the pan-Arab body has kept Iraq at arm's length since the U.S.-led invasion, which most of its members opposed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2005 01:43 ||
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The number of invading troops killed in Iraq is at least 10 times higher than the published toll of 2,000, the Iraqi branch of the Al Qaeda terrorism network says. "We are not exaggerating when we say that the number of deaths in the ranks of the crusader army is 10 times higher than the 2,000 announced in the pernicious media," the group said in a website statement.
"Dead! They're all dead! Their stomachs are roasting in hell!"
"Their forces have encountered difficulties disposing of the corpses which they are burying in mass graves in the desert, throwing in the rivers, or incinerating."
"They gotta be putting them someplace! We can't possibly be that ineffectual! I mean, we got guns and turbans and everything!"
No evidence is offered for the claims.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2005 01:27 ||
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Only ten times higher?
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 1:40 Comments ||
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#2
Don't worry, Rafael, Mike Sylvester will be around real soon to confirm ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 1:31 Comments ||
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#3
I don't recall hearing anything from MS since his 9/11 faux pa awhile back.Wonder where that ass bite has been hanging-out?
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 11:20 Comments ||
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#6
Gotta love it, must be great for morale.
Posted by: Jan ||
10/30/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#7
It should noted that al Qaeda has merely conflated their imagined US fatality count with the real number of Iraqi Muslims they have actually murdered.
Let us all hope for the spectacularly bright and glassy day when Islam finally realizes that it is its own worst enemy.
The U.N. report on the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri released last week circulated in two versions: one available on the U.N. website that had names and passages deleted, and another, more privately available version with the deletions restored. It was in the unedited version that the names of high-ranking Syrian government officials were visibleâand thus implicatedâin the killing.
But in versions available in English-language Mideast media and Websites, there was another deletion of interest, that of an institution: the Bank al Madina. While the U.N. report said that Hariri's murder was political, it went on to say that individuals involved in the plot may have had other motives, including fraud, corruption and money-laundering. In short, it recommended: "Follow the money."
The Bank al Madina collapsed in early 2003, after it had been looted of about $1.65 billion. Several people in that fraud were also named in the U.N. report to the Hariri assassination. Lebanese legal sources say that while local prosecutors cannot yet prove that the plot was paid for with money originating from Madina accounts, there are significant indications that the bank's collapse and the assassination may be linked. "Madina money must have seemed untraceable to [the plotters]," says one Lebanese attorney who has discussed the case with prosecutors.
Even before its collapse, Madina was key to the shadowy financial dealings of Lebanese and Syrian politicians, as well as a way for Saddam Hussein's Central Bank of Iraq to launder money. It was during this period that large paymentsâin cash, cars, contracts and real estateâwere allegedly made by the bank's executive secretary to key Lebanese and Syrian officials. "It has been, to my knowledge, a key money-laundering operation in the Middle East, even in the years preceding the collapse of the bank," says one former U.S. intelligence operative who worked extensively on organized crime issues in the 1990s.
The bank's executive secretary, Rana Koleilat, was jailed on multiple fraud counts from early 2004 until just prior to the Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon in April 2005. Koleilat was spirited away from her jail cell, apparently to Cairo, where she is said to be living under an assumed name. Lebanese critics of Syria say this was to keep her from providing local prosecutors with evidence against the Syrian overlords of Lebanon. Madina's key documents had been sealed by the head of Syrian Military Intelligence in Lebanon, Maj. Gen. Rustom Ghazali. Ghazali's predecessor Ghazi Kenaan was found dead, apparently a suicide, in Damascus in the week leading up to the release of the U.N. report, which mentions Kenaan and Ghazali in both edited and unedited versions.
The Chairman of the Lebanon's Central Bank reportedly received threats at about the time the Madina investigation was put on ice in mid- to late 2003. In an interview, Riad Salameh simply says, "Whatever happened, we did our duty to protect depositors and protect the reputation of the country's banking system."
Documents show that Ghazali's family received millions of dollars, some going to the general's brothers (allegedly through fake credit cards issued by the bank). Another alleged payment cited in the Lebanese and Western press includes $300,000 in cash going to the general himself. A private investigative report commissioned by Madina's principal owner Adnan Ayyash (who also faces charges over the collapse and is at odds with his former executive secretary) alleges that Rana Koleilat handed over a Beirut apartment worth an estimated $2.5 million to the office manager of Lieut. Colonel Maher Assad, the brother of Syrian President Bashar Assad. The U.N. report has linked the colonel to the Hariri assassination. Ayyash's private report also alleges that Madina may have overpaid the son-in-law of Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, an ally of Syria, for a villa. The bank forked over $10 million for property that has now been appraised at $2.5 million.
Before his death, Rafiq Hariri had denounced the closure of the Madina investigation and had accused the Syrians of financial corruption. But, given the Byzantine nature of Lebanese politics, there may have been more going on than high-mindedness. Before the bank collapsed, the Koleilat family had been setting themselves up as political and economic rivals to the Hariris, spending millions on charities and gifts in an effort to win over Hariri's Sunni constituency. But would that have made them natural allies of the Syrians, who disliked Hariri for his ties to the west? Or was the flood of cash from Madina simply too massive for anyone to have any idea of the use that all of the largesse was being put to? The weeks ahead should provide more revelations now that the U.N. has turned the international tide against Syrian influence in Lebanonâand sources in that country may no longer be afraid to speak.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2005 17:54 ||
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The United Nations Security Council today took up discussion on what Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad might have meant when he called for Israel to be âwiped out from the mapâ.
Secretary General Kofi Annan said Iran, as a member of the U.N., must be given the benefit of the doubt that the phrase was intended to encourage peaceful diplomacy.
ââWipedâ is a word that can denote cleanliness,â said Mr. Annan. âThe Iranian president may have simply meant that the map should be cleaned so Israelâs legitmate borders are easier to see.â
Mr. Ahmadinejadâs remarks came during the month-long âWorld without Zionismâ celebration, and echoed the Ayatollah Khomeiniâs previous comments about map hygiene.
In related news, the U.S. House today begins debate on creation of a month-long holiday called âWorld Without Islamofascism,â
President George Bush said he looks forward to celebrating the new holiday with a ceremonial âwiping of the map.â
He shoots, he scores - nothin' but net, baby. Ott rulez.
#3
On the other hand, if an armed gang of American wingnuts declared an intention to "wipe the UN off the map," UN security and the FBI would have no trouble divining their intent.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
10/30/2005 11:54 Comments ||
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#5
How insulting for you to think we're that stupid.
Unfuckingbelievable
Posted by: Jan ||
10/30/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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#6
er, it's Scrappleface....satire...good stuff
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 12:34 Comments ||
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#7
my bad geez I feel pretty stupid here
Posted by: Jan ||
10/30/2005 12:59 Comments ||
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#8
The Iran-Israel Cold War
by Trita Parsi
Published on October 28, 2005 by opendemocracy.net
The inexperienced Iranian president has done it again. Mahmoud Ahmadinejadâs comments in a speech on 26 October â before an audience of 4,000 students attending a Tehran conference on âThe World Without Zionismâ â have understandably been met by widespread international condemnation. Understandably so, for Ahmadinejad talked of âwiping the state of Israel off the mapâ and predicted that âthe new wave of attacks in Palestine will erase this stain from the face of Islam.â
The question is whether his explosive remarks indicate a more aggressive Iranian policy against the Jewish state or whether they were merely another sign of Ahmadinejadâs inability to grasp the implications of his proclamations.
#1
The Independent trys to convince us Iran is not a danger. When the article makes a statement about the failed US led Iraqi invasion it shows it's true colors and just how untrustworthy the Indpendent is.
#2
For most of these influential figures, staying in power is the most important goal  a goal that is inimical to any sort of direct attack on Israel. In all probability, the naive outbursts of Mr Ahmadinejad were as much of an embarrassment and irritation to them as his self-image as a blacksmith's son who speaks for the people.
or a reporter who thinks he keep the world safe just by manipulating words to change the reality of a mad regime who just declared nuclear war on Israel.
It's hard to tell the difference between Reality and Scrappleface anymore.
#4
While it should be encouraging to note that the question is no longer whether Iran is dangerous but instead how dangerous, the article's complete and total lack of any suggested solutions make it patently obvious these journalistic wankers are just that.
The writers would have it appear as though America's defeat in Iraq and Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons are all but foregone conclusions. I respectfully suggest that they both can go f%&k a rock.
Yeah, baby, keep it on the front page. Thanx!
Iran hit back at the U.N. Security Council on Saturday after the world body condemned President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's call for Israel to be destroyed. The Security Council issued a statement Friday reminding Iran that, according to the U.N. charter, member states must refrain from threatening to use force against each other.
"Article XIV, Paragraph 42, Subsection vii clearly states 'No Hitting'. You could look it up."
"The statement by the president of the U.N. Security Council was proposed by the Zionist regime to close the eyes to its crimes and to change the facts, therefore it is not acceptable," Iran's Foreign Ministry said. "Iran is loyal to its commitments based on the U.N. charter and it has never used or threatened to use force against any country," the ministry added.
On Wednesday, Ahmadinejad demanded the Jewish state be "wiped off the map" and defended the call Friday during nationwide protests. His comments drew international criticism from Russia to Chile. The United States said Ahmadinejad's hostile remarks underscored Washington's concern over Iran's nuclear program, while Israel said the Persian state should be suspended from the United Nations. U.N. chief Kofi Annan expressed "dismay" in a rare rebuke of a U.N. member state.
Russia, a key ally of Iran, summoned the Iranian ambassador seeking an explanation for Ahmadinejad's remarks. Chile joined in the criticism Friday, saying "this kind of statements seriously damages efforts to achieve a lasting peace in the middle East."
The Foreign Ministry said the international community was treating Tehran unfairly, accusing it of failing to come to Iran's defense when it comes under attack from the United States or Israel over claims it is developing nuclear weapons or supporting Islamic militants. "How many sessions were held by the Security Council over the U.S. and Israeli threats against Iran?" the Foreign Ministry statement read. Ali Larijani, secretary of Iran's supreme national security council, said the West's intense opposition to Ahmadinejad's comments stems from the campaign against its nuclear program.
Larijani's nobody's fool.
Iran announced earlier this year that it had fully developed solid fuel technology for missiles, a major breakthrough that increases their accuracy. The Shahab-3, with a range of 810 miles to more than 1,200 miles, is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead to Israel and U.S. forces in the Middle East. Hundreds of demonstrators, meanwhile, marched through Berlin on Saturday calling for freedom for the Palestinian territories as part of Iranian-inspired protests against Israel around the world.
Berlin?
The annual al-Quds (Jerusalem) Day protest drew over 300 demonstrators, including many women and children, who marched peacefully through the German capital's Charlottenburg district.
Berlin celebrates 'Al-Quds Day?
Scores of city police escorted the marchers and shielded them from a group of noisy counter-protesters. Authorities had banned the marchers from burning flags or carrying banners promoting violence in a bid to lower tensions after the Iranian president's call for Israel's destruction. About 150 people answered a call from opposition politicians and Jewish community leaders to stage a counter protest. Riot police stopped a small number of them from crossing barriers keeping them away from the route of the march. Others chanted "Long live Israel" as the marchers went by. Police said they made no arrests. The protest, instigated by Iranian revolutionary leader Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979, has been held in Berlin every year since 1995. Some 800 people attended in 2004. Wave your arms, jump up and down, roll your eyes and holler a lot... yeah - that's the ticket.
#1
The Security Council issued a statement Friday reminding Iran that, according to the U.N. charter, member states must refrain from threatening to use force against each other.
Yeah, and all those demands that Israel surrender its fence sovereignty to their Arab enemies don't count.
#3
Now Achmadinajad can justifiably declare:
"Ich bin Eine Berliner !"
Do small Islamic children get to play with SAMTEX
and dynamite sticks on Al Kuds day ?
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/30/2005 5:28 Comments ||
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#4
Elder,
He's a jelly doughnut?
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
10/30/2005 9:57 Comments ||
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#5
Mmmmmmm.... Berliners!
Posted by: JF Homer ||
10/30/2005 10:36 Comments ||
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During a United Nations investigation into the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri that threatens the power of President Bashar al-Assad, a first cousin who is one of the most powerful businessmen in Syria has left the country.
"Hello? Syrian Airlines? I'd like to book a flight!"
"Where to, sir?"
"Don't care!"
While it remains unclear why the president's cousin, Rami Makhluf, left - his allies say he is in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, shacking up with Michael Jackson working on the expansion of his business empire - many people with close connections to the ruling Baath Party say his departure underscores the investigation's threat to the Assad family's grip on power. Already, the United Nations has implicated important Syrians in the killing of Mr. Hariri in February, and the Syrian government has since been searching for a formula to satisfy its international critics without undermining its authority at home.
It's something like juggling guilletines...
On Saturday, Mr. Assad announced that he would create a judicial commission to investigate the assassination. Syrian officials hope the move will at least buy them time with the United Nations Security Council, which is scheduled Monday to consider ordering economic penalties until Syria cooperates fully with United Nations investigators.
I'm sure somebody'll try and delay things until they finish the investigation, somewhere around 2099...
In Syria, a country of about 18 million people, political and economic power is held by a small circle of people, most with family ties to President Assad. Detlev Mehlis, the German prosecutor investigating on behalf of the Security Council, identified two of the most powerful members of that circle as suspects in the killing - Mr. Assad's brother Maher, who controls the presidential guard, and his brother-in-law, Asef Shawkat, head of military intelligence. Should the Security Council demand that the two be turned over for trial, President Assad would most probably have to resist or face turmoil in a system that is not governed by strong institutions, but instead by individuals, several experts said.
It's called a government of men, not of laws. It's had many eloquent apologists, including Lin Yu Tang. It still doesn't work.
In this environment, Mr. Makhluf's departure has been seen as a sign that those at the core of the country's power structure recognize their vulnerability, and fear that a showdown with the Security Council could spell disaster for them. "I think that this is the most important challenge facing Syria in its recent history," said Fayez Sara, a Syrian political analyst and writer. "And if the Syrian government or authorities do not handle the issue well, it can in fact lead to a crisis."
Like I say, gone by 9-11-06...
Pessimist ...
The Makhluf family is at the center of the power structure. It controls a business empire including a bank, the duty-free zones at the border and most of Syria's cellphone service. President Assad's mother is a Makhluf and her brother, Muhammad, is Rami Makhluf's father. "Most notoriously, the family of Bashar's mother, the Makhlufs, has leveraged its connections to amass a commercial empire, the value of which is estimated to exceed $3 billion," wrote Flynt Leverett, a former C.I.A. Middle East analyst, in his recent book "Inheriting Syria: Bashar's Trial by Fire."
One well-connected analyst said Mr. Makhluf was asked by the president to leave the country. That could not be independently confirmed. The analyst said that the general public resents the tremendous wealth controlled by the president's family, and that by asking Mr. Makhluf to go, Mr. Assad was signaling his willingness to clean up corruption. When he first came to office, Mr. Assad focused on opening up the economy, but did nothing to break up the vast economic fortunes of those who are in power, not just the Makhlufs, experts said. "They want people to believe that he has left by orders of the president because there is so much grumbling about the wealth he has acquired," the well-connected analyst said. "It is one of the steps taken to try to restore credibility with the Syrian people."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/30/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
It's something like juggling guilletines...
Fred is Best.
Posted by: john ||
10/30/2005 7:36 Comments ||
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"And we won't stop until we've found and brought to justice my political enemies Nicole's real killer..."
President Bashar Al-Assad on Saturday formed a special judicial committee tasked with questioning Syrian people, civilian and military personnel, in relation to an international investigation over the killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Al-Hariri. Al-Assad issued a decree to form the committee which will be chaired by the general prosecutor and the membership of the military prosecutor general and a judge to be named by the Minister of Justice. The committee members will be interrogating almost all Syrian civilian and military people linked with the murder of Hariri.
Oddly, I don't seem to recall that Mehlis needed the Number 7 truncheon for his report...
The Syrian decree states that the newly-formed committee should cooperate with Mehlis team and the Lebanese judicial authorities in all investigations on Hariri's murder.
"Or else."
The committee, to be in effect as of today, has the right to use the service of civilians or military officers, read the decree.
"Not necessarily in that order."
The committee's formation is ahead of a UN security council meeting at a ministerial level next Monday that will discuss a draft resolution on Syria. The Syrian President sent letters to presidents of member states of the UN security council about his country's position vis-a-vis the Mehlis report.
A radical animal rights activist shocked members of the U.S. Senate this week by advocating the murder of those conducting medical research.
Jerry Vlasak, spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front, told the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works that killing medical researchers was "morally justified" to save laboratory animals. Vlasak compared the life of lab animals to African American slaves and the Jewish victims of Nazi concentration camps.
He made his comments while defending a similar statement, made to the news media last year: "I don't think you'd have to kill â assassinate â too many vivisectors before you would see a marked decrease in the amount of vivisection going on. And I think for five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2 million, 10 million non-human lives."
"It is so revolting to hear what you say about murder â these aren't extermination camps," said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-NJ. "What's being done, whether you like it or not, is to try and improve the quality of life for human beings. I believe that laboratory tests involving animals can be necessary and important for the advancement of science and medicine and the protection of public health."
The hearing was called to investigate the animal rights group SHAC, whose mission is to force the closure of one of America's largest independent contract research organizations, Huntongton Life Sciences. Recently, the New York Stock Exchange abruptly postponed its long-planned listing of HLS's holding company, Life Sciences Research Inc. following threats against the exchange made by SHAC.
Sen. James Inhofe, R-OK, told the FBI's counterterrorism Deputy Assistant Director John E. Lewis, who also testified, that he plans to introduce legislation that will grant law enforcement greater flexibility in tracking and prosecuting those who break the law.
"That's not a maybe," he vowed after hearing Vlasak. "That's a definite."
Another witness, Mark Bibi, general counsel for LSRI, recounted how his private property was vandalized by SHAC.
"The car was covered with animal rights graffiti," he said. "Warning messages were spray painted all over my house."
Witness Skip Boruchin of NASDAQ, who was targeted by SHAC for having a business relationship with HLS, reported the group slandered him as a sex offender and harassed his elderly mother while she was residing in an assisted living home.
LSRI reportedly lost millions of dollars in business and spent over $1 million on legal costs. Its share price was battered.
Vlasak described himself as a "former vivisector" and the press officer of the North American Liberation Front.
"The actions of underground activists who care enough about animals to speak out in no uncertain terms, and at times to risk their own lives and freedom, have a message that is most urgent and one that deserves to be heard and understood," he said. "Often underground animal liberation speech and actions either go unreported in the media or are uncritically vilified as 'violent' or 'terrorist,' with no attention paid to the needless and senseless suffering that industries and individuals gratuitously inflict on animals."
He claimed HLS kills 500 animals a day and "will test anything for anybody. They carry out experiments which involve poisoning animals with household products, pesticides, drugs, herbicides, food colorings and additives, sweeteners and genetically modified organisms, oven cleaner and make up."
Vlasak said the company was infiltrated in 1997 by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and found information that forced HLS to plead guilty to animal cruelty violations and pay a $50,000 fine.
He said it was important to realize "SHAC is not one group, or hierarchical entity, but an ideologically aligned group consisting on thousands of people who gather in various groups to protest the atrocities perpetrated by HLS."
Vlasak celebrated the fact that HLS has been brought to the brink of financial ruin.
Where is the terrorist connection, you ask?
Well just read down to the end of the article, and all will be revealed A five-year-old girl was married to an eight-year-old boy in Shadan Lund in Dera Ghazi Khan district following a reconciliation reached between two families. Zulfikar Ali alias Zulfoo allegedly raped 11-year-old Mansab Mai in Juma Wani village in Shadan Lund on June 7. Police arrested him and sent the challan of the case to court. Meanwhile, Mansab Maiâs grandfather Haji Khan pardoned Mr Ali against the hand of his niece Tasleem Mai, 5, for Mansab Maiâs brother Matloob Hussain, 8, on October 23. The practice is called Wani which is prevalent in the rural areas of southern Punjab.
Woman booked for killing husband: Kabirwala police registered a case against a woman and her parents for killing her husband. Muhammad Aslam Bhatti of Faisalabad was married to Zaitoon of Kot Islam in Kabirwala in 1990. Zaitoon, mother of four, came back to her parents in September after she had an argument with her husband. Mr Bhatti came to Kabirwala to take his wife back on October 23 but she refused to go with him. On October 26, Akhtar, Mr Bhattiâs younger brother, received a message that his brother was in critical condition because his in-laws had given him poison. He took him to a hospital in Abdul Hakim where he died on October 28. Akhtar filed a murder case against Zaitoon, her parents and Qayyum Bibi, one of her sisters.
ATA section added to leg-chopping case: Police on Saturday added a section of the Anti-Terrorism Act to a case of leg chopping of a woman by her husband because he waved the amputated leg in the air which was an offence under section 7-A of the ATA. Sadiq Bhatti had chopped off the leg of his 45-year-old wife in Jalla Jeem village in Mailsi in Vehari district on suspicion of infidelity. Bhatti was produced in an Anti-Terrorism Court in Multan on Saturday where he confessed the crime. The court remanded him in police custody.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/30/2005 8:46 Comments ||
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#3
An 11 year old girl raped. A 5 year old girl traded. So must a 6 year old be raped/traded to fully balance The Book. What would mohammed do? An through it all, the rapist walks and is free to do it again to some other girl.
chopped off the leg of his 45-year-old wife in Jalla Jeem village in Mailsi in Vehari district on suspicion of infidelity.
His or her infidelity? It's so hard to tell.
Posted by: ed ||
10/30/2005 10:05 Comments ||
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#4
because he waved the amputated leg in the air which was an offence under section 7-A of the ATA.
So it wasn't the leg chopping which was the offence, but waving it in the air. Civilization is such a wonderful thing.
#5
An arrestee from south of Naboo
had chopped his wife's leg in two.
The cop said, "Don't shout,
nor wave it about.
All the others will be wanting one too."
The compound within the 10-foot-tall mud walls resembles a basic training-meets-OK Corral ghost town. Barbed wire is snarled around posts low to the dirt, a concrete tunnel keeps vermin out of the sun, and small ramps and stairs to nowhere stand like monoliths.
This place is known as Tarnak Farms, a deserted al Qaeda training outpost just outside Kandahar Airfield that was bombed at the beginning of the global war on terror. If the site appears familiar to some, it should be. Released al Qaeda training videos featured anti-coalition militia training there. It was the third-largest al Qaeda training center in Afghanistan, next to Tora Bora in Nangrahar province and Zaewara in Paktia province.
"When I got here, I did a little research and discovered that Tarnak Farms was the headquarters for al Qaeda and could possibly even be where al Qaeda got its name," said Army Sgt. 1st Class Todd Hutchings, a DuPont, Wash., native. "It means 'the base.'"
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2005 01:28 ||
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KABUL - Four Afghan cabinet ministers have given up their foreign citizenship, an official said on Saturday, in the face of possible opposition from the future parliament. Afghanistanâs new constitution, passed in January 2004, does not allow ministers to hold dual citizenship. The four who gave up their foreign citizenship are Economy Minister Mir Mohammad Amin Farhang, public works minister Suhrab Ali "Surfin'" Safari, Mohammad Azam Dadfar, minister for refugees repatriation and Communications Minister Amirzai Sangin. âThey have voluntarily scrapped their second citizenships,â chief presidential spokesman Mohammad Karim Rahimi told Reuters.
But of course they don't tell us what the second citizenships are.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Lol. Doesn't this deserve a F**kin Duh, Doc? And yes, I'm ready for another round on dual citizenship as one of the stupidest ideas ever, lol.
Banning dual citizenship is not a good idea for Afghanistan, at least not initially. You've got a lot of good, professional Afghanis, all over the western world, who have (hopefully) seen the light, and who might have had something to offer this fledgling democracy (in the political arena). You will probably not entice these people to return to Afghanistan, if they also have to give up their current citizenship, which probably took a lot of time and sacrifice to obtain.
But then again, maybe that's the point.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 1:16 Comments ||
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#3
Sigh. We've been here before.
My take is simple.
If you are granted citizenship in a country, by birth or naturalization, then you are a citizen of that country. Period. No other.
If you are a naturalized citizen, then your country of origin means nothing, IMHO, as you have pledged yourself to the new country - and they have reciprocated for that pledge by granting you rights - including representation and travel rights as evidenced by the passport. Nobody MADE you emigrate from your previous home - it was your choice. Choice made.
Can't make such a pledge? Can't reciprocate the generosity of your new home? Then stay wherever you are. Choice made.
End of story.
Regards the Ministers of a country, good grief, of course they must choose Afghani citizenship - they have an obligation to the State, now. And they must work with all their might to make it a success.
The same goes for every other Afghani who chooses to live there. If they're not up to reciprocating loyalty for the rights granted, and willing to make a go of it, stay out, they're not needed.
#4
sounds like Mizz Hillary could take a lesson or two, was it Illinois or Arkansas?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 1:45 Comments ||
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#5
If they're not up to reciprocating loyalty for the rights granted, and willing to make a go of it, stay out, they're not needed.
They could be needed if they have the right education or experience. An Afghani with an economics degree from say, Harvard, specializing in development economics, could be a great minister of the economy. But asking to give up American citizenship, could prove too big a price to pay. And that's a loss for Afghanistan.
It would be a good idea to encourage Afghanis from other parts of the (western) world to participate in the politics of Afghanistan, at least initially. They could bring with them good ideas, and ideas that have been proven to work elsewhere.
If you are a naturalized citizen, then your country of origin means nothing
Easy to say, in practice it's altogether a different story. Sometimes you can renounce your previous citizenship, sometimes you can't. Your country of origin may consider you its citizen, no matter how many times you say you've renounced the citizenship. So you're bound by the rules of both countries. Not a problem, if you never intend to visit your country of origin ever again (which some governments advise you not to do anyway).
I've said this before, dual citizenship can be a useful tool in itself. It means one of those two citizenships can be taken away when needed. If you want to get rid of an undesirable and he has a second citizenship, great, send him packing to his country of origin. It could also be used as a bargaining chip. Whereas if the guy only has one citizenship, you're stuck with him because most countries have laws that say you can't make a person stateless.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather kick someone out who is a constant shit disturber. Otherwise you get stuck providing welfare like in some of the examples we've seen before.
In addition, the shit disturber needn't break any laws to get himself booted out. In some cases all it takes is to show that the person lied on his application. "Have you ever been affiliated in any way with a terrorist organization?" For lying to this question, what's the maximum penalty he can get? Whereas getting kicked out is a permanent thing.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 1:40 Comments ||
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#6
Pfeh. I disagree, of course. The Afghan situation, where a democracy is being created where there was none before, is one mother-loving rarity. Regards the Ministers, I take it that makes sense to you? Now I ask, if it makes sense for a Minister, why is it any different for anyone else? Why have multiple sets of rules? Do you just love complexity, or what? You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer or bureaucrat, would you?
All the machinations are pointless gyrations that create complexity, and niches for assholes to breed and screw with the system, where none is needed.
If some twit breaks the law:
1) If it's yours, then punish accordingly.
2) If it's somebody else's, then ship it out.
Compare my posts and yours. Simplicity versus nuanced complexity. Oh well, such is life and to each his own. BTW, the US Govt agrees with me. Obviously, Qanada agrees with you. Who knew?
There's nothing particularly complex about it. Your points 1) and 2) still apply. My point is, dual-citizenship can be used as leverage, and post 9/11, it is (the Arar case comes to mind).
If your sole motivation behind your argument is to force loyalty, you're going to have a problem. You can take the immigrant out of his country of birth, but can you take the country of birth out of the immigrant? An oath or piece of paper may not change anything. You had better shutdown immigration completely if you want a 100% guarantee on loyalty. Otherwise, there will always be lingering questions (even if the immigrant has the best of intentions).
That said, there's perhaps a big difference between immigrants in the US and Canada. There's a lot more hyphenation in Canada, whereas everyone is American in the US. But maybe that's overstated. Maybe the situations are far more similar than it seems...especially post 9/11.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 13:15 Comments ||
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#10
However divided loyalties are not good.
I've never really thought about this until my job put me in contact with a lot of recent, and not so recent immigrants. I've met many types. Among them are:
1) Immigrants who escaped a crappy life and are determined to make a better life for themselves and their future generations. Typically for these people the country of origin is relegated to the annals of history and their loyalty is not in doubt.
2) Immigrants who leech off their adopted home (and I don't necessarily mean financially) enjoying its freedoms and protections, coming close but never quite breaking any of its laws, but who for one reason or another, continue to crap on the flag on a daily basis. Notice that you don't need to be an immigrant to fit this category.
Those that fall under #2 I would consider undesirable.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 13:37 Comments ||
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#11
Part of the problem is that Afghanistan as a separate country (rather than a region in this or that empire) dates only to the last part of the 19th century and was based on political considerations between the empires rather than cohesion among its people, economy, geography or history.
The newly elected government is trying to create a national identity and to do that they must above all create a ruling class that identifies with the country and not with tribe, region or religion. In the US, that process was based in good part on the Military Academy (West Point), founded in 1802 and whose cadets / officer graduates were really the first national leaders to be associated with the country first and not their state of origin (for our foreign readers: state as in Virginia, Pennsylvania etc.).
West Point was also one of the first schools in the world to offer degrees in engineering, specifically civil engineering. It was primarily West Point grads who designed and oversaw the building of roads, bridges, railroads and dams as the frontier was pushed back westward.
It's hard for us today to really appreciate how new a thing it was for an educated class to a) identify with the nation as a whole, first and foremost and b) have such an intimate role in its growth while at the same time not seizing / wielding political power in their own right.
The National Military Academy in Afghanistan was just founded this Spring. It will take time to have a similar effect on Afghanistan as USMA had for the young United States, but the country has many of the opportunities and challenges we did 200 years ago, including the lack of basic infrastructure. And they're doing it under the pressures of a globalized economy and instantaneous press coverage - not to mention the ease of traffic in arms.
Yes - it is a commitment and sacrifice for senior government officials to renounce a 2nd citizenship, especially if it was won via naturalization in a place like the US. But without leaders willing to make personal sacrifices on behalf of Afghanistan, they will not achieve what they want and need to achieve in order to transform their country.
Everybody wants to see some sort of return on investment for their sacrifices. At this point Afghanistan happens to be in the unenviable position that even the smallest of successes cannot be guaranteed. It seems a bit unnecessarily harsh, for the moment, to have this requirement, though I understand the other side of the argument.
As I recall, California's governor has dual-citizenship. If it's not a problem in the US, why should it be a problem in Afghanistan?
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 14:18 Comments ||
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#14
Precisely because the stakes are so high in Afghanistan.
No one in the United States believes we are in danger of having Schwartenegger working only on behalf of ethnic Austrians. But that is PRECISELY the claim made on my own group blog when pictures were posted of the new Afghan military academy -- and the concern is an understandable one.
The DEFAULT mode right now in Afghanistan is that people identify primarily with their tribe. The danger is real, hence the Constitutional clause that demands that those who would have the legitimization of national office for wielding power be willing to put their eggs in that national basket alone.
#17
I see your point. I was caught trying to apply western rules to Afghanistan.
My argument is largely irrelevant anyway. The effect I had in mind can be achieved through other means, so long as they don't ban dual-citizenship for ordinary citizens.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 15:10 Comments ||
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#18
As I recall, California's governor has dual-citizenship. If it's not a problem in the US, why should it be a problem in Afghanistan?
Who says it's not a problem in the U. S.? If he doesn't renounce his loyalty to foreign princes and potentates, he can't be an American. That's what it's all about, the supremacy of the individual and adherence to the idea that power derives from the people, not some other sovereign to whom the individual owes a vestigal alliegence. Dual citizenship is a terrible thing.
BTW, the governator still hasn't renounced his Austrian citizenship, afaik. I don't see a constitutional crisis brewing over this. Interestingly, Austria doesn't allow dual citizenships. Arnie pulled some strings to retain his Austrian citizenship. Which makes me wonder......
/not really
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/30/2005 17:19 Comments ||
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#20
I'm far less concerned about dual citizenship Austrians than I am Mexicans, especially as both Mexico and the U. S. allow them to vote. When Mexicans start electing Mexicans to the House of Representatives it'll be too late. Then we'll have our Quebec. They have to choose; one or the other. Not both.
JERUSALEM (AFP): A 200-member delegation of Pakistani officials and businessmen is to visit Israel in early November, in a bid to bring closer the two countries which have no diplomatic relations, Israeli military radio said. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom are to receive the Pakistani delegation of retired generals, religious leaders, politicians and business people, radio said, though there was no official confirmation. Relations between the second most populous Muslim country and the Jewish state were hostile for decades, but began to warm up after Israel offered aid to Pakistan following this month's devastating earthquake.
Pakistan accepted Israel's offer, in a sign that the sole Muslim nuclear power was cautiously warming to better ties with Israel. Prior to the earthquake, in a highly publicized sign of cordiality, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Sharon shook hands on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in New York in mid-September.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
ROFL! Tonight's the night for knee-slappers. I went to check and, sure enough, there are scare quotes around Israel. I thought Dr Steve was funnin' with us, but noooo, it's the 'Kuwait' Arab Times. Y'know, that's one of those countries where there's this blank spot on the map where Israel is located. Fucking morons. I've been to 'Kuwait' - it's almost like a city in a sandbox pretending to be a 'country'... Just another bizarro Arab place with mucho weirdness and excited dementia. The chicken schwarmas taste exactly the same as in Saudi and Bahrain and the UAE. When in doubt, choose chicken - for consistency. The 'beef' on the other hand, well, that's mystery meat in all those locales. Trust me. Lol. What was the story about, again? Oh, yeah, PakiWaki people is be calling on Israel. Have a nice time. :)
They were serving 'blunt-nosed beef' in Kuwait, right?
It's funny, they put Israel in quotes in the title, but not in the story. I think an editor is going to be fired for that inconsistency ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2005 0:39 Comments ||
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#3
Flat-nosed or blunt-nosed beef -- Heh, if you know the right places, yewbetcha, lol. It's everywhere, if you're on the list. I remember that I was in-country for 3 months this last tour before I moved into a housing compound where I could finally have a BLT. No place institutionalizes hypocrisy to the level of the Arab 'countries'. Boggles.
#4
blunt-nosed beef = a behooved whore from the next village (i.e.: a quiet camel)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2005 1:52 Comments ||
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#5
Is that a picture of Fred?
Posted by: john ||
10/30/2005 6:57 Comments ||
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#6
I was there just before Rhamadan and the hypocricy was laughable. This Arab hottie sitting an aisle away from me on the plane went into the bathroom and came out a burka betty. She went in wearing tight jeans and high heel and a very tight shirt. She came out in black and sandals. Then it happened, the bathrooms all had lines of women waiting for their turn to transform. Again, Monty Pithon came to mind.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
10/30/2005 9:50 Comments ||
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#7
Yes. straw felt hat period.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/30/2005 17:08 Comments ||
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#8
LOL Red Dawg.
Posted by: abu abu Mazan Mazan ||
10/30/2005 18:34 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Interior Minister Prince Naif yesterday confirmed plans to release some detainees held for security reasons after they repented and, after following a counseling program, decided to return to the right path. He emphasized however that the government would not set free those militants arrested for planning terrorist attacks across the country. âThey are still under investigation and will be transferred to court for trial,â the Saudi Press Agency quoted him as saying.
The Prince of Wales will try to persuade George W Bush and Americans of the merits of Islam this week because he thinks the United States has been too intolerant of the religion since September 11.
A foiled Chechen rebel assault on the Russian city of Nalchik this month was in fact a "grandiose" attempt to replicate the 11 September attacks and hijack five planes that could be flown into targets such as the Kremlin, a nuclear power station and other strategic facilities, it has been claimed. That alarming hypothesis has been put forward by an authoritative American intelligence provider called Stratfor that boasts of close links to the Russian and American security services. The information is being checked by Russia's Deputy Prosecutor Nikolai Shepel, who is investigating the attack on 13 October that left at least 120 people dead and took thousands of special forces to repel.
Aslan Maskhadov, the top Chechen rebel commander, was shot dead by his nephew who was acting as his bodyguard, a court investigation has shown.
A U.S. official warned Oct. 28 that North Koreaâs mass production and distribution of counterfeit U.S. currency is likely funding the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Stuart Levey, the U.S. Treasuryâs undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, said his government is extremely concerned about Pyongyangâs production of large amounts of high-quality fake U.S. bills. âYou have to come to the conclusion that the counterfeit is supporting the proliferation,â he said. Levey said the high-quality counterfeits, also known as Supernotes, were eventually laundered to fund illicit activities of the reclusive Stalinist regime. âThere are a variety of ways that counterfeit currency can be put into legitimate financial system and ultimately laundered so it produces value for the government of North Korea,â he said. âItâs something that we take extraordinarily seriously,â he said, declining to put a value to the fake notes that have been distributed. 
WASHINGTON - The United States is inviting independent human rights experts from the United Nations to visit detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba almost four years after the UN first asked permission to inspect the prison. Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros said the invitation âwas extended in an effort to broaden understanding of US detention operations and to demonstrate that detainees at Guantanamo are treated humanely.â
The number of invading troops killed in Iraq is at least 10 times higher than the published toll of 2,000, the Iraqi branch of the Al Qaeda terrorism network says. "We are not exaggerating when we say that the number of deaths in the ranks of the crusader army is 10 times higher than the 2,000 announced in the pernicious media," the group said in a website statement.
Hundreds of demonstrators, meanwhile, marched through Berlin on Saturday calling for freedom for the Palestinian territories as part of Iranian-inspired protests against Israel around the world. 
While it remains unclear why the president's cousin, 
A five-year-old girl was married to an eight-year-old boy in Shadan Lund in Dera Ghazi Khan district following a reconciliation reached between two families. Zulfikar Ali alias Zulfoo allegedly raped 11-year-old Mansab Mai in Juma Wani village in Shadan Lund on June 7. Police arrested him and sent the challan of the case to court. Meanwhile, Mansab Maiâs grandfather Haji Khan pardoned Mr Ali against the hand of his niece Tasleem Mai, 5, for Mansab Maiâs brother Matloob Hussain, 8, on October 23. The practice is called Wani which is prevalent in the rural areas of southern Punjab.
JERUSALEM (AFP): A 200-member delegation of Pakistani officials and businessmen is to visit Israel in early November, in a bid to bring closer the two countries which have no diplomatic relations, Israeli military radio said. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom are to receive the Pakistani delegation of retired generals, religious leaders, politicians and business people, radio said, though there was no official confirmation. Relations between the second most populous Muslim country and the Jewish state were hostile for decades, but began to warm up after Israel offered aid to Pakistan following this month's devastating earthquake.
