Botswana says its President Seretse Khama Ian Khama will boycott a summit of regional leaders because Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe has been invited.
The country has said that Mr Mugabe should not attend such gatherings until a power-sharing deal has been reached. It is also urging its neighbours not to give legitimacy to the widely-condemned Zimbabwean presidential elections. South African President Thabo Mbeki, who is mediating in the Zimbabwean talks, is hosting the summit.
Correspondents say Botswana's move to boycott the 14-member Southern African Development Community (Sadc) summit is "unprecedented" and add that it shows growing opposition to Mr Mugabe's continued rule.
Meanwhile, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called on the Zimbabwean government to lift restrictions on aid deliveries, to stop "a catastrophic humanitarian crisis". "I call on the government of Zimbabwe to fully respect humanitarian principles and the impartiality and neutrality of voluntary and non-governmental organisations, allowing them to operate freely and with unrestricted access to those in need," Mr Ban said in a statement.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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#1
good for khama, if only Mbeki had as much cojones
#2
Mbeki can't. He's already in a precarious position with the ANC*.
* They aren't happy with him wrt the flood of Zimbabwean refugees and with his technocratic/business approach. But they'd really be ticked if he threw over an 'African revolutionary legend'.
N'DJAMENA, Chad (AP) - A Chadian court on Friday sentenced a former president and eleven rebels to death for crimes against the state, an official said.
Former president Hissene Habre is currently awaiting trial in Senegal for torture and murder. A Chadian commission of inquiry concluded Habre killed tens of thousands of political opponents during his eight years in power until he was ousted by rebels in 1990.
Habre has been in exile in Senegal since he was overthrown. He lives in a villa in an upscale Dakar neighborhood with his family. Senegal is unlikely to extradite Habre to Chad, as it has already made preparations to try him under an African Union mandate after coming under pressure to prosecute the former dictator.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/16/2008 00:00 ||
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Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Thursday accused the United States of masterminding the current conflict between Georgia and Russia. A statement from Chavez's government alleged the conflict was "planned, prepared and ordered" by Washington in an "incitement of violence." It gives no evidence to support those claims. It also said Russia acted to protect local residents from "unacceptable acts of violence" perpetrated by Georgian troops.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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#2
It's true, we did. But it's just the first pawn in the chain to destroy 21st Century Socialism.
Vz oil basket going off at public 113. Danger for Hugolito if it dips for any length of time below 86 USD. He's already trashing the Argentine bonds he bought, next it'll be his.
#4
One of Nancy's excuses for not drilling is the amount of time to bring new refineries on line. How about Kelo'ing the Citco-Venezuelan refineries in Houston and switching them over to domestic light crude we could extract? That'll be quicker since the environmental impact will be minimal.
#5
The Donk leadership has some sort of strategic purpose for wanting to keep us short on oil. It's not environmental concern, they have never really used that argument before a couple of months ago. Whatever it is, I cant believe it is solely for the good of the US.
#6
Procopius2k I'm thinking those refineries are more valuable doing the hard work they do. Perhaps Glenmore or the alpine humanoid could enlighten us.
At least 23 people died in the northern Mexican state of Chihuahua, police and officials said Thursday. The toll included nine people slain during a prayer service. A gang armed with AK-47s sprayed the mass in a drug rehabilitation center with bullets late Wednesday in the border town of Ciudad Juarez, killing eight patients and their minister, police said. At least five people were seriously injured in the shooting. Meanwhile, 14 others were found dead Thursday in separate incidents in Chihuahua state, eight of them in Ciudad Juarez.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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#1
Drugs or money. Most people in mex don't go around shooting people for no reason.
#3
It's long past time to unilaterally abrogate NAFTA, break relations with Mex and stop any traffic coming north. Mexico and Nigeria, two countries whose major exports are oil and criminals, need to be places whose citizens are permanently banned, with no exceptions, from U.S. entry. Every time I read stuff like this I wish the Rio Grande was 500 miles wide.
#3
The ones with the pieces of white cloth tied to their arms are Ossetian Irregulars.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/16/2008 8:07 Comments ||
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#4
There is an old cliche' which I believe to be true: "No combat unit ever passed Inspection".
The dead tankers bodies which you can pack in your pillowcase are how many Tankers actually die. They dont tell them, you have to find out the hard way.
Wretched way to die. We all think we are immortal when we are young... that's why you pick the young men to go. Old men know better and when the old men go in, they know they are going to die with no reprieve. But there is nothing more dangerous in this world than a dead man with nothing more to lose, or an old combat soldier who hates your guts.
Plus its so difficult to kill a dead man who waits until after dark. He doesnt need rations, he can eat pieces of you.
#6
Russians and Ossetians sure look happy in the photos, fist pumping and smiling. I'm going to relish the thought of how much this is going to cost russia over the next 10 years. With a dwindling population and a single sector(gas/oil) economy they are easy enough to attack at the trade level.
#7
Nasty pictures. Looking at the comments, there seems to be some confusion whether this is the work of the Rooskies or the evil pawns of the Great Satan.
Anybody know? Whose tanks were shot up?
Maybe it doesn't matter...
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/16/2008 13:17 Comments ||
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#8
Lucky ass bastard with the chest wound. The bullet came in just below his neck (most likely as he was laying down and raised his head up to look around) and entered the chest muscles, bounced off the ribs and exited taking more hunks of flesh with it. Nasty and painful, but not life threatening.
#9
Well, The Georgians might want to get some advice from the Finns. Finland damn near kicked Russia's ass just before WWII. BTW, the Finns joined Hitler to fight Russia, but, I don't recall if they fought the allies. Anyway, the U.S. has squads or platoons that could demolish Russian units (company or higher) before breakfast. Why do we show any respect to Russia? Anybody remember the "Wolfhounds" of the U.S. Army?
#10
Well, The Georgians might want to get some advice from the Finns. Finland damn near kicked Russia's ass just before WWII.
Not quite.
The Finns lost that war despite inflicting casualties on the Russians five to one. If the Soviets had waited until after the winter with tactical air support, the results would not have been so bloody for the Soviets.
Credit Marshal Timoshenko and his inability to conduct large scale successful offensive operations.
When the USSR was about the break through to capture Helsinki, the Finns sued for peace, i.e. surrendered and were dictated terms by the Soviets.
#11
If the graffiti on some of the APCs are to be believed then the Vostok battalion (Chechens) are making up the numbers too. Still apparently proclaiming their allegiance to Sulim Yamadaev (now purged IIRC) too, I doubt the nice Mr Kadyrov would approve. Still, who'd have imagined Chechens going to war for Vlad?
#21
The "Wolfhounds" you talked about earlier were the 27th Infantry Regiment deployed to Russia before WWI. They were the first US unit to fight the Red forces.
Anyway, I have seen a lot of Russian troops in the Balkans. Not impressed and Rable best describes them.
#26
#22 Somehow they managed to take a very modern Georgian army out within a day and could have moved on to Tbilisi easily.
yes they could hav but why didn't , mabey they
had some very new equipment .. Ukraine sold the {ithink it was call the s-300
aa system}: we had given them AT systems..
they did a planed retreat from tvisalli {sp} ... yes they left behind unused ordnance ..but they held tiblisi -- they even shot down a backfire...
now us humanitarian aid + us deployment on city fighting Georgianna troops have slowed down Russian advances... {+ whatever else were on the us planes} ... let us see what happens now
#33
Why not... they had a prolonged conflict with the Chechens and it kept them up with battle hardened troops.. witch you need to fight a proper war..
#36
I agree totally and as I posted earlier maybe that is what is holding Tbilisi....
oh and they also have that great new digital urban camo... (that i like but could think of better..) + all the new greatly armed street fighting troops from Iraq
#38
one would think they dont want to occupy Georgia, having made their point.
Yet they are still there, and are throwing hints they are in no hurry to leave. One obvious possibility is that they wont consider the point fully made till Saak falls from power, and they dont expect that to happen if they leave promptly.
#39
If we armed the Georgians with US anti-tank weapons and stingers, the Russians would start losing troops and tanks very quickly. The Georgian troops trained as counter-insurgency which can quickly be made into insurgents. Given the narrow road and the mountains, the Russians would start looking at Georgia like they did Afghanistan.
#40
but have they taken over the pipline ...
according to the 'agreement they have control on the regions including
Autonomous Republic of Adjara?
from the 6 point plan
Russian forces must go back to positions they held prior to the outbreak of hostilities. """"Pending an international peace monitoring mechanism, Russian peacekeepers will take additional security measures.""""
Babblefish (altavisa auto translation) translates it thus:
Our soldiers gather in those running Georgian weapon and send home at the post in ethnic villages. There was in the daytime a vile embarassment, [osetiny] shot 30 Georgian prisoners, disavowing for the peace of atrocity Georgian against the peacemakers. Georgians become impudent and are placed hail outside the administrative boundary next to the been charred frames of those hit yesterday. Tanks and [AA] shoot only through [granitsu]." http://www.milkavkaz.net/forum/viewt...asc&start=1470
#5
"In the ethnic villages our troops are collecting arms from the fleeing Georgians and sending them home. During the day there was a "vile embarassment" when the Ossetians shot 30 Georgian prisoners, distracting the world from the Georgian atrocities against the peacekeepers. The Georgians are "impudent" (NAGLEYUT) and GRAD (rockets) have been set up by the aministrative boundary adjacent to the rubble created yesterday. Tanks and AA fire only across the boundary."
Translation not guaranteed. It's been a long time.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 9:58 Comments ||
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#6
I can see how the murder of 30 prisoners could be a distraction. Silly little things like that can put your whole day off.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said that a preliminary deal allowing the US to site missiles in Poland is aimed against Russia.
Poland will host the missiles as part of a defence shield the US says it needs against "rogue states" like Iran. But Mr Medvedev said it demonstrated that Russia's concerns about new systems in eastern Europe were valid. "The deployment of new anti-missile forces has as its aim the Russian Federation," he said.
Mr Medvedev was speaking at a press conference after holding talks with German Chancellor Angela Merkel over the on-going unrest in Georgia.
Under the deal signed on Thursday, the US will install 10 interceptor missiles at a base on the Baltic coast in return for help strengthening Polish air defences.
Oh, excellent! We put in missiles and then help the Poles strengthen the very thing needed to help protect the missiles. How sly.
A top general in Moscow said the move would worsen ties with the West already strained by the Georgian conflict.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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#1
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said that a preliminary deal allowing the US to site missiles in Poland is aimed against Russia.
Now why would we do that? Just cause you threatened nuclear launch?
#5
My understanding is that the Russian believe that NATO just moved the "missile front" closer to Russia and into territories NATO promised not to venture.
And that "missile defense" serves as a Trojan Horse.
Russians tend to be paranoid about this.
#6
NATO promised not to send forces into the visograd states when they made the deal for them to join, way back in the mid 90s. At that time Russia was governed by Yeltsin, who was halfway conciliatory to the West. Also at that time Iran seemed less of a threat. And this technology did not seem promising.
All three of those things has changed. Iran is heading towards nukes and has long range missiles - and Russia has been at most grudging in trying to stop that. There are techs that CAN stop it.
And russia has been engaged in behavior since 2001 that brings the original deal into question.
Even so weve tried to get Russia involved in this tech, and make it as unthreatening as possible.
Yet Russia, days after invading a sovereign state, and WHILE its forces rampage through said state, is threatening nuclear retaliation for this. If they WANTED NATO to extend further defenses into Poland they couldnt do a better job.
We have not threatened Russia so crudely in the entire era since 1991. It is time for Russia to cool down, while it still has some sympathy.
#9
Pakistan/India isn't really a US conflict. Pakistan/Afghanistan is (well, it's really a NATO conflict, but there seems to be a dearth of... enthusiasm... from quite a few members).
Taiwan issue is actually not heating up now, and India-Pak isnt our issue. WOT we're handling, along with many other countries.
As for a renewed cold war, I dont want anyone, and AFAICT no one in the US does. We DO have to make it clear to the new members of NATO that we will keep our treaty obligations to them. Since Im sure Russia has no designs to attack ANY of them, I cant see how thats a problem for Russia.
And of course if Russia continues to act with beligerence and arrogance, it wont be a question of what the US alone does, as the Europeans will join us.
#11
A new cold war is the most unnecessary conflict
The time for Russia to have shown that was fifteen years ago by not proliferating nuclear technologies to Iran. I'm afraid by now it's too late for the New COld War to be unnecessary. It was, but Russia went ahead with it anyway.
President Saakashvili was forced to accept defeat yesterday as he signed a peace agreement that gives the Russian Army the right to patrol on Georgian soil.
In a critical amendment to the ceasefire drawn up by President Sarkozy of France, the Kremlin forced Mr Saakashvili to accept that Russian troops could control a buffer zone of Georgian territory up to 10km beyond the border of the breakaway region of South Ossetia.
Mr Saakashvili was humiliated further when the final text of the agreement, delivered personally by Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, removed a reference to Russian recognition of Georgia's territorial integrity. It referred only to independence and sovereignty, a day after Ser-gei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, said that the world could forget about Georgia's territorial integrity.
After signing the peace agreement, an emotional Mr Saakashvili said defiantly: "A significant part of Georgian territory remains under foreign military occupation. Never, ever will Georgia reconcile itself with the occupation of even one square kilometre of its territory."
The US and the European Union appear to have compelled him to accept just that, at least temporarily, in a deal that, in effect, legitimises Russian occupation of Georgia. The West had been insisting that the two sides withdraw their forces to the positions they occupied on August 6, before Georgian troops entered South Ossetia. Now, at Moscow's insistence, Georgia has been forced to accept that Russian "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia have the right to patrol outside the breakaway region. The details were included in a letter signed by President Sarkozy that clarified Russia's security powers.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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#3
Russians like buffer zones. Vast buffer zones the size of the Ukraine.
Posted by: Abu Uluque6305 ||
08/16/2008 10:40 Comments ||
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#4
Did Georgian troops fight at all? They look like they dumped their gear and ran from the photos. Most of their armor and trucks look like they were set fire right before being photographed. Like they ran out of gas rather than destroyed by fire.
#5
What was signed is a ceasefire, not a peace agreement. Per a WaPo account of a Rice press conference, Russian troops will be required to leave the non-disputed territories:
After arriving here to discuss the deal with Saakashvili and to show U.S. support for Georgia's embattled government, Rice told reporters, "Our most urgent task today is the immediate and orderly withdrawal of Russian armed forces and the return of those forces to Russia." She said that "all Russian troops and any irregular and paramilitary forces that entered with them must leave immediately." The only forces allowed to stay under the cease-fire agreement are Russian peacekeeping troops who were in two breakaway provinces of Georgia before Aug. 6, she said.
Yah, Condi knows that Russian peacekeepers were already there, and there they will stay. Why not listen to Condi? The apologists prefer the rhetoric of "occupation," to the facts. There is a clear drift to status quo peace. The difference is that the "Georgia for the Georgians" crowd is beaten and discredited. That's good.
Let me speak for the people of Georgia: the nationalists were frauds; they are reckless losers; we hate them; keep us out of your rhetoric prisons; don't make heroes out of those lame ducks.
#9
One thing has been puzzling me .. if they T[he Rus] are allowed to control the 'Autonomous Districts', do they also include the Autonomous Republic of Adjara?
This is located in the South West corner of the country and ..I think.. where the pipline enters Turkey. map link
I have read that the Russian Navy Blockaded this Area and that Russian troops approached it but do not know if they occupied it.. and if so Does this new agreement mean they can occupie and control it..
>This site has a link on the Russian blockade
...but this site also talks of..
Russian nukes in S Ossetia
and
US to Transfer Bio Weapons to Georgia
??/.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday he signed a cease-fire accord that orders Russian troops to withdraw from his country, calling the Russians barbarians who had been plotting for months to invade and occupy his country's sovereign soil.
U.S. President George W. Bush called Russia's actions in Georgia "completely unacceptable" and said that Moscow must end the crisis.
"The world has watched with alarm as Russia invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatened a democratic government elected by its people," Bush said in his weekly Saturday radio address, which the White House released on Friday.
Bush said he would send Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Brussels next week to meet with NATO foreign ministers and European Union officials.
Rice visited Tbilisi and France, which brokered a cease-fire this week, and was headed to Crawford, Texas, to meet with Bush at his ranch this weekend.
"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations, and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must act to end this crisis," Bush said.
Georgian leader Saakashvili on Friday told a joint news conference with the U.S. Secretary of State that his country would never be reconciled to losing any of its territory to Russia. He also criticized the muted reaction by European nations to the build up.
Of the cease-fire agreement, Saakashvili said it was not a done deal. "We need to do our utmost to deter such behavior in the future," he explained.
He later said that Russian tanks had moved on two more towns in central Georgia, widening their "occupation."
Saakashvili's claim could not be independently verified and Russian officials could not immediately be reached for comment.
Saakashvili said the tanks had moved to the towns of Khashari and Borjomi southwest of South Ossetia. "We now have an increasing area of Russian occupation of our territory," Saakashvili told reporters several hours after signing the cease-fire agreement.
Rice, visiting the Georgian capital Tbilisi in efforts to secure a peace deal between the warring states, said Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had also signed the pact - and that Russian troops must now withdraw from Georgia as outlined in the deal brokered earlier in the week by French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
"Georgia has been attacked. Russian forces need to leave Georgia at once," she said calling for the immediate and orderly withdrawal of Moscow's military and all paramilitary troops that went with the convoys.
"The Russian pullout must take place - and take place now," she said, speaking at the pro-Western Georgian leader's side at a joint news conference outside his presidential palace in central Tbilisi.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 00:26 ||
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#1
And how long did he plan his indiscriminate bombing of civilians? He expected them to flee the country and enable completion of his "Georgia for Georgians" policy. That is ethnic cleansing.
#2
500,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed from Abkhazia and S Ossetia during 1991-1992. About 30,000 Georgians were killed. But, that seems to be just peachy with you.
Ossetian goons were raiding Georgian territory for months, prior to the current conflict. But, that seems to be just peachy with you.
Reports form non-Russian, independent sources indicate that there were basically two targets of Georgian barrage: A) The Tskhinvali administrative center and a bridge on then northern accee to the town. There was little damage to residenhtial areas beside shattered glass.
The chief of Tskhinvali hospital gave the casualty count on 8/9: 47 dead and 278 tretaed for various ninjuries. He did not state what portion was civilian and what military/paramilitary.
#4
Huh? The civil war was fought between ethnic cleansing nationalists - "Georgia for Georgians" - and accomodationists with Russia. The Georgian victor - Shevardnadze - was the last Foreign Minister of the USSR. There was a period of productive peace until the neo-nationalists revived the agitation in 2004.
Google "Gamsakhurdia" if you think the nationalists are like the Hungarian Revolutionaries of 1956.
#5
Zoid, about a dozen years prior 2004, a major ethnic cleansing campaign was in progress. The victims, for the most part, were ethnic Georgians. The figures were not negligible--half a million displaced and thousands dead. It is not that a long time that people forget.
I did not forget 1968 invasion and consequent occupation of Czechoslovkia and that is 40 years ago. Despite being now on the other side of the globe, I can recall it as if it were today. I did not blame Russians, I blamed their government, just to make it clear. Since then, I never had any reason to trust them. At all.
But if, for example, I saw a dude across a field that murdered my family 12 years ago, dunno, I would be hard pressed not to act upon my darker instincts. It may be even difficult avoiding dark impulses when seeing just his cousins.
I am a very peaceful guy... but it is possible that I would kill the sonsofbitches.
#6
And how long did he plan his indiscriminate bombing of civilians?
Signs of Ethnic Attacks in Georgia Conflict The reports findings also seemed to indicate that early Russian accounts of casualties, which in the first days of fighting reached 2,000, were far too high. In Tskhinvali , where the heaviest fighting took place, the local hospital received 44 corpses and 273 wounded people from Aug. 6, after clashes between separatists and Georgians, to Aug. 12, the report said, citing a doctor.
The report quoted the doctor as saying that the majority of the wounded were affiliated with the military, although it was not clear if he meant the Russian or Georgian armies or Ossetian fighters. As of Aug. 13, none of the wounded remained in the hospital, the report said. Many were transferred to mobile hospitals in the Russian Emergencies Ministry.
Hook, line and sinker McZoid.
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 19:53 Comments ||
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President Dmitry Medvedev on Friday said Moscow was the guarantor of security in the Caucasus region Right. And I'd really like to be the guardian of Patty Anne Brown's chastity.
and dismissed Georgia's chances of recovering its rebel regions. "Is werry fonny choke in Rossian! Ha ha!"
His comments came at a news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, at which the German leader insisted Georgia's territorial integrity had to be the starting point for resolving the current conflict. "Russia, as guarantor of security in the Caucasus and the region, will make a decision that unambiguously supports the will of these two Caucasus peoples," Medvedev said, referring to the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. "Unfortunately after what has happened it is unlikely Ossetians and Abkhaz can live in one state with Georgians. If someone continues to attack our citizens, our peacekeepers, then of course we will answer just as we did." "I mean, what else could we do?"
The German chancellor took a contrary stance on the future of Georgia's rebel provinces. "The starting point must naturally be Georgia's territorial integrity," Merkel said. "There is an elected government in Georgia with which we have to discuss and negotiate," she said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 00:23 ||
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#1
BIGNEWSNETWORK > RUSSIA MAY HAVE A NEW FRIEND IN IRAN; + IRAN-DAILY > AHMADINEJAD: THE WEST'S DEPARTURE IS VISIBLE [US-West weakening on Centrifuges]+ ABKHAZIANS PLANT THEIR FLAG -US LIMITATIONS EXPOSED.
Georgia entered So. Ossetia precisely to disrupt the Russian timing but also - significantly - to draw in US support against Moscow. Witness Saav's grandiose announcement that US troops were going to secure Georgian air fields and ports when we promised no such thing.
The Georgians got their asses handed to them and may well have made it impossible to attack Iran any time soon.
In the face of that, consider that this Administration has in fact moved pretty firmly against Russia. Obama and the Dems wouldn't have acted at all, beyond Stern Warnings.
They've also sent a message that we won't be manipulated into sending our troops to every principality that tries to use us for their own purposes.
I'm sympathetic to the Georgians and support their moves towards a functioning republic. No small achievement! But Condi and Bush are scrambling to salvage some good outcomes from a mess they didn't create and warned Saav. not to precipitate.
#3
the longer the russians stay, the harder it is for those in Western europe who want to defend them like PM Berlusconi and ex-PM Schroeder, to do so. Though of course we dont all agree on what the soft power of France, Italy, and Germany is worth.
At some point the Russians are going to beging to face logistical issues, esp if the Georgians see western soft power isnt working, and start to settle into the beginning of a guerilla war.
LOTP- based on what folks like Holbrooke, Biden, et al have said I see no basis for believing the Dems would have done anything less than Bush has done so far. Maybe McCain would have done MORE.
This complete paper is worth reading. If you have a blood pressure problem take the pills before reading.
On August 6, 2007, an unidentified aircraft dropped a large air-to-surface missile near a newly upgraded Georgian military radar station, in the vicinity of the South Ossetian conflict zone. The bomb failed to detonate.
... individual European states reacted swiftly to the incident, sending out teams of experts to the site, which provided much of the information and analysis that enabled a clear-cut understanding of the event and identification of the aggressor. This was achieved in spite of the incident occurring, probably not
coincidentally, during European vacation season. While the states taking this decision deserve praise, the same cannot be said for Western multilateral institutions. Both the European Union and the OSCE under Portuguese and Spanish leadership, respectively did their utmost to avoid handling the
matter in a forthright and authoritative way. Indeed, they contented themselves with expressing their concern and appealing to all parties involved to reduce tension and to exercise restraint. They did not identify the perpetrator, and failed at least publicly to raise this issue with Russian authorities in a manner that would be likely to constitute a deterrent to future acts of the same kind.
This weak reaction on the part of European officialdom is all the more notable since intelligence information available to all Western governments,elements of which have been made available to the authors of this paper as well as been presented in a wide variety of media outlets, provide overwhelming evidence beyond reasonable doubt that a Russian military aircraft was responsible for the attack. Clearly, OSCE and EU representatives had access to superior information that enabled them to acquire a solid picture of the incident. Their course of action was therefore not constrained by questions as to what actually transpired, but by political decisions not to offend or challenge Moscow.
...March 11, 2007
2110-2110-2300: The Upper Abkhazia villages of Adjara, Chkhalta and Zima came under ground-to-ground rocket fire, likely from territory controlled by the Russian-backed de facto authorities that control most of Abkhazia. In a coordinated attack, Russian military helicopters, described by eyewitnesses as Mi-24s (HIND-E) snaked through the Caucasus Mountain passes that lead from Russia to Georgia. More than one probable Mi-24 helicopter was in the area throughout the attack. The assault culminated at 2247 when one of thehelicopters launched an AT-6 Shturm or AT-9 Ataka ATGM into a building in Chkhalta.2
...Monday, August 6, 2007
1831-1842: A probable Russian Su-24M fighter aircraft penetrated Georgian airspace above the town of Khazbegi. It traveled southwest, tracked by three radars military and civilian to Tsitelubani, where it turned, released a Kh-58U anti-radar missile and headed northeast, crossing back into Russia. The missile fell, undetonated into a vegetable field meters away from houses in the village. The missile had burn marks on the nozzle, indicating that it had been fired, not jettisoned.
...08309/085510 (reports differ): The Joint Peacekeeping Force (JPKF) patrol arrived at the missile impact site near Tsitelubani. [The JPKF that morning consisted of representatives of Russia, Georgia and North Ossetia-Alania.
Together, the JPKF plus the OSCE CMO, comprise the Joint Monitoring Group (JMG).] The JMG observed, "In the hole was seen only unexploded part of ammo at 3-3.5 depth. The diameter of the hole was about 110-120 cm.
Based on parts extracted from the ground, such as the missile engine, stabilizer wings, electro-schemes and internal equipment, it was established that this [was] an air-to-surface guided missile which did not explode after launch. The diameter of the engine's nozzle was about 37.5 cm. At 13:00 Georgian experts extracted with the help of an evacuator the combat part of the AS guided missile with [its] unexploded charge. The three remaining stabilizers were on the section of the rocked body" [sic.]. At the site, Georgian officials showed the JMG a radar print-out that traced the flight
path of the intruding aircraft.11
...Before 1300: Russian General Marat Kulakhmetov, JPKF Commander gave a press interview. "The aircraft came into the [South Ossetia] Conflict Zone from the east," the General explained. "Then it turned in a southwest direction. Over the village of Gromi, it came under fire from the South Ossetian side. This, it seems, scared the pilot and caused him to fire a rocket, and then it went to the northeast."12 The notion that for the second time this year Georgia had bombed itself with weapons and aircraft it does not possess was to be the Moscow line over the next 48 hours. Then it gets oh so much worse... read the report and then look at what happened this week and now Russia threatening Poland with Nuclear War
#1
This was one of the sets of conclusions made 1 yr ago.
1. Russia is prepared to use armed force to discipline neighboring and regional states whose conduct Moscow finds objectionable.
2. The responses of the European Union and of leading European governments to this incident reflects poorly on their readiness to enter into credible long-term commitment to purchase gas and oil directly from Caspian states. Stated differently, Europe would appear to be seeking a closer relationship in the sphere of energy but without any corresponding relationship or reciprocal obligations in the security sphere.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday he signed a cease-fire accord that orders Russian troops to withdraw from his country, calling the Russians barbarians who had been plotting for months to invade and occupy his country's sovereign soil.
No kidding ...
Georgian leader Saakashvili on Friday told a joint news conference with the U.S. Secretary of State that his country would never be reconciled to losing any of its territory to Russia. He also criticized the muted reaction by European nations to the build up.
They tried to tell you that you were being set up and that they weren't going to pull your chestnuts out of the fire, but you didn't listen.
Of the cease-fire agreement, Saakashvili said it was not a done deal. "We need to do our utmost to deter such behavior in the future," he explained.
He later said that Russian tanks had moved on two more towns in central Georgia, widening their "occupation." Saakashvili said the tanks had moved to the towns of Khashari and Borjomi southwest of South Ossetia. "We now have an increasing area of Russian occupation of our territory," Saakashvili told reporters several hours after signing the cease-fire agreement. Saakashvili's claim could not be independently verified and Russian officials could not immediately be reached for comment.
Rice, visiting the Georgian capital Tbilisi in efforts to secure a peace deal between the warring states, said Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had also signed the pact - and that Russian troops must now withdraw from Georgia as outlined in the deal brokered earlier in the week by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. "Georgia has been attacked. Russian forces need to leave Georgia at once," she said calling for the immediate and orderly withdrawal of Moscow's military and all paramilitary troops that went with the convoys. "The Russian pullout must take place - and take place now," she said, speaking at the pro-Western Georgian leader's side at a joint news conference outside his presidential palace in central Tbilisi.
Rice flew to the Georgian capital Friday to discuss the cease-fire with Saakashvili after meeting with Sarkozy in Paris, saying the immediate goal was to get Russian combat forces out of Georgia. She warned that Russia's military action had wider implications for its relationship with the U.S. - and the West.
Rice consulted with Saakashvili about details of the cease-fire, which requires Russia to withdraw its combat forces from Georgia but allows Russian peacekeepers to remain in the breakaway region of South Ossetia and conduct limited patrols outside the region.
The draft document also does not commit Russia to respecting Georgia's territorial integrity, but rather refers to Georgian independence and sovereignty, meaning Moscow does not necessarily accept that South Ossetia and the other rebel region Abkhazia, are Georgian. Officials say the eventual status of the two areas will be worked out under existing United Nations Security Council resolutions which recognize Georgia's international borders and Abkhazia and South Ossetia as Georgian.
The U.S. and its allies had been pushing for Russia to agree to restore the situation in Georgia to the status quo ante, or how it stood before Georgian troops moved into South Ossetia last week prompting Russia's severe response and seven days of bloodshed. Now they have been forced to back down on the key issues of the mandate of Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia, which did not previously include outside patrols, and the territorial integrity question, which Russia ostensibly accepted before but no longer does.
U.S. officials concede the agreement is not perfect but maintain it will get Russian combat troops out of Georgia, hopefully in a matter of days. "It will be a major accomplishment for Georgia to get the Russians out of their country and back effectively to the status quo ante," Rice said.
In addition to the cease-fire document, Rice brought with her a letter signed by Sarkozy that clarifies the special security measures that Russian peacekeepers will be allowed to take on Georgian soil, officials said.
Sarkozy welcomed Georgia's signature of the ceasefire accord ending the hostilities with Russia and said the way was clear for a UN Security Council resolution to end the crisis. "The President of the Republic considers that the conditions are now in place for the rapid adoption of a resolution by the Security Council and the definition of an international mechanism which will be charged with overseeing the implementation of the agreement on the ground," Sarkozy's office said in a statement.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/16/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Condi didn't look too happy to be on stage with that loser. I question how "joint" that event was. She could hardly say no to him as long as he is a living lame duck. But she spoke of diplomatic efforts without reference to his self serving abridgment of the fact that he caused the crisis by ordering indiscriminate shelling.
#4
Not Russians in general or RT (for resons quite obvious = they like their broadcasting license), that's for sure. Otherwise, reporters that were in the area, from different news outlets.
You've either gobbled up Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker, or you've missed the time frame for major commenting FSB-sponsored offensive a week ago and want to make good with your politruk.
GENEVA - The United Nations and Red Cross have poured hundreds of tonnes of aid supplies into Georgia, but need better security conditions before deploying in South Ossetia, the two bodies said on Friday. Russian, South Ossetian and Georgian authorities have given the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) a green light to enter the rebel province, but it awaits firmer guarantees.
"We are ready to go at any time from both North Ossetia and from the Georgian capital of Tbilisi," ICRC spokeswoman Anna Nelson told a news briefing. "We will be operational as soon as security guarantees are in place and we're sure that it's safe."
Might be a while; the Rooskies have to round up the Chechynan 'volunteers' first.
The neutral humanitarian agency has flown 100 tonnes of aid into Georgia, with another 45 tonnes due on Friday. "We are now in full swing, distributing supplies and restoring access to water in shelter centres in and around Tbilisi," she said.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon voiced alarm on Thursday at the humanitarian situation and lawlessness in parts of Georgia, particularly South Ossetia and the Gori region which remain off limits amid reports of looting by irregular militias. "For us, it is a question of access, access, access -- total and free -- to South Ossetia, around Gori and also to the ports," said Elisabeth Byrs, spokeswoman of the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA).
Let the Russians provide aid to South Ossetia -- that's why they went to war, right?
Highlighting the danger to aid workers, armed men in unmarked military uniforms near Gori forced two staff of the U.N. refugee agency to surrender their vehicles on Thursday.
Antonio Guterres, U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees, will travel to Georgia and Russia next week to assess its relief operations in both countries, spokesman Ron Redmond said. "Mr. Guterres will continue to press for the protection of the civilian population, especially the displaced, and for access by humanitarian agencies," he said.
More than 118,000 people have been uprooted by the week-long conflict, including 30,000 who crossed into Russia, he added.
UNHCR has flown more than 100 tonnes of aid into Georgia this week, enough for more than 50,000 people, Redmond said. The U.N.'s World Food Programme has also brought in flour, oil, sugar, beans and high-energy biscuits for the displaced.
The U.N. Children's Fund UNICEF said that some 170 makeshift shelters around Tbilisi needed to be equipped urgently with clean water and sanitation systems and electricity. "UNICEF would like to get every displaced child back into school by the new school year. Creating that sense of normalcy is an important haven not only for the children but also for parents," said Gordon Alexander, head of its regional office.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/16/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Screw Ossetia, let them get their supplies from their russian benefactors.
On August 6, 2007, an unidentified aircraft dropped a large air-to-surface missile near a newly upgraded Georgian military radar station, in the vicinity of the South Ossetian conflict zone. The bomb failed to detonate.
Subsequently, two groups of independent experts commissioned by European and American governments confirmed the Georgian government's allegation that the military aircraft and explosive device, both of types not possessed by Georgia, entered Georgian airspace from the Russian Federation, fired rather than jettisoned the device, and then returned back to Russian airspace. A separate group of experts, convened by the Russian government and consisting only of Russians, nevertheless disputed these conclusions, finding no evidence of Russian involvement.
Why does this incident merit the publication of a Silk Road Paper? Several reasons make this relevant. First, the incident was not an isolated event, but rather part and parcel of an increasingly aggressive effort by Russia's foreign policy establishment to undermine Georgia's western orientation. Second, the broader context of the incident has important implications for Euro-Atlantic security interests. Third, the international reaction to the incident particularly on the part of multilateral organizations such as the OSCE and EU remained grossly inadequate. Fourth, it is imperative that the Euro-Atlantic community draw the right conclusions from this incident, for at least two reasons: to be better prepared for similar incidents in the future; and to avoid the adoption of policies that may inadvertently encourage this type of actions.
The incident constitutes a flagrant violation of Georgia's sovereignty and is difficult to interpret as anything other than an act of war. In spite of this, European policy-makers, and particularly multilateral institutions, refrained from identifying, let alone condemning the aggressor. In so doing, they implicitly gave credence to Moscow's seemingly outrageous assertion that for the second time in six months, Georgia bombed itself with aircraft and weaponry it does not possess, and for the sole purpose of blaming Russia for it. That assertion is eerily reminiscent of an incident that took place in 1993, during the war in Georgia's breakaway republic of Abkhazia, when unmarked aircraft regularly pounded Georgian positions. Russia's thendefense minister asserted that Georgia attacked its own positions in order to put the blame for its military weakness and territorial losses on Russia. When Georgian forces succeeded in downing a plane, they dragged out of its cockpit a Russian air force pilot in full uniform, with detailed instructions in his uniform pocket that unequivocally indicated his point of departure an air base in southern Russia and mission, to pound Georgian forces along the frontline......
The Boxers were an ostensibly independent, but actually government-sponsored (Qing dynasty) militia used as a weapon against foreign influences. Their principal military exploits consisted of hacking to pieces tens of thousands of Chinese Christian and hundreds of assorted foreign civilians (mostly missionaries) and being annihilated by foreign military forces dispatched to deal with them. They are hailed as heroes in Chinese history books.
But where does the depth of emotion come from? Chinese history books say that the West is rich literally because everyone else is poor. Specifically, the West's wealth is based on looting the rest of the world in general, and specifically, China. This is part of the reason (in addition to the ancient Chinese superiority complex) that Chinese xenophobes are immoderate in ways that bin Ladenists could appreciate.
BEIJING The ancient Drum Tower, or Gulou, rises majestically from a gray sea of crumbling brick homes and meandering alleys in central Beijing. It was built in the 13th century and sits on the sacred north-south axis of the city, or dragon line. Giant drums were once sounded from the 153-foot-tall red and green tower so residents could tell time.
Todd Bachman and his tour group probably learned this from their English-speaking guide Saturday afternoon shortly before a Chinese man fatally stabbedhim.
Bachman's wife, Barbara, also was stabbed when, family members said, she went to her husband's aid. Barbara Bachman remains in a Beijing hospital, in serious but stable condition following eight hours of surgery.
The assailant, identified as Tang Yongming of Hangzhou, is dead. He leapt from the second level of the Drum Tower, about 13 stories up.
The past few days have been a blur for U.S. men's volleyball coach Hugh McCutcheon and his wife, Elisabeth, whose parents are Todd and Barbara Bachman. The U.S. men have played and won their first two Olympic matches without McCutcheon on the bench, and there is some question if he will return at all before the Games end. There is a funeral to plan in Minnesota, and Barbara Bachman must be transported home.
But in the swirl of grief and shock enveloping McCutcheon and the entire U.S. Olympic delegation in Beijing, one question hangs in the air like the humidity that bakes the city in the summer: Why?
The U.S. Embassy in Beijing issued a statement saying Tang's attack appears to be an isolated act and we have no reason to believe the assailant targeted the victims as American citizens. It issued no travel alert for Beijing.
Wang Zhifa, deputy director of China's National Tourism Administration, cited Beijing's relatively low crime rate and told journalists, The attack was an isolated and incidental criminal case.
McCutcheon, speaking to reporters for the first time Tuesday, said: Random acts of violence are random acts of violence. There's no indication here of any premeditation or anything. It seems, just unfortunately, a case of the wrong place at the wrong time. Certainly in our opinion that is the way it appears to be.
Yet some China experts are cautioning that, while Tang's attack may have been triggered by mental illness or deep depression, killing a foreigner at the Drum Tower may not be quite as random as Chinese and American authorities are portraying it.
Drum Tower, suicide, knife, foreigners, said Susan Brownell, a Fulbright senior researcher in Beijing who wrote a book about the meaning of the Olympics to China. There's definitely some symbolism there. What it meant to him in his own mind is a little hard to figure out. But you've got a failure in life who maybe is trying to redeem himself with what he perceives as the noble act of killing a foreigner, of protecting China.
The Bachmans were not wearing anything that would identify them as Americans other than perhaps a USA Volleyball pin, U.S. Olympic Committee officials said. But in a city of 17.4 million people, nearly all of them Chinese, Westerners are easy to identify, and one place they are likely to be found is the Drum Tower.
I think it's a minority but I think it exists, Brownell said of anti-foreigner sentiment in China. It's a product of all the rhetoric of China's humiliation at the hands of the West. There is a deep-seated xenophobia that has been an integral part of China for centuries, to close down and shut off to the rest of the world. It's still there today, to a certain extent.
The Drum Tower was renamed the Tower of Realizing Shamefulness in 1924, serving as a museum devoted to invasions and occupations by foreign nations. It once served as a watch tower on the northern edge of the city, able to alert residents of unwelcome visitors. It has since been converted to a tourist attraction.
There is also the notion of suicide carrying a different meaning in China than in the West, as an act of protest. The popular annual Dragon Boat festival commemorates the death of Qu Yuan, a poet from 300 B.C. who drowned himself as a final, heroic act of defiance against a repressive government.
Locals speak of the increasing number of people from the countryside who move to Beijing in search of a better life and, if they don't find it, quickly become disillusioned. A 2004 report by the Beijing Suicide Research and Prevention Center named suicide as the fifth leading cause of death in China and No. 1 among people between the ages of 15 and 34.
Chinese authorities said Tang was a troubled 47-year-old man from the eastern province of Zhejiang. He reportedly had lost his job at a factory in Hangzhou, had gone through a divorce and was living in a rented room in Beijing.
It happens all the time, said a European language teacher who has lived in Beijing for a decade and who declined to give his name. Someone loses everything. They lose their job, they get divorced, they kill themselves. It happens so often here that no one notices anymore.
But if a foreigner gets killed, it's different.
Few details have surfaced in the days after the attack. Authorities continue to insist it was a random, isolated attack, but they also admit it is still under investigation.
The plaza behind the Drum Tower has returned to normal, with families playing badminton and shirtless men playing cards in the sultry evenings. The Drum Tower remains locked, though. A small, yellow sign above the ticket window says Temporarily Closed in English and Mandarin.
Xinhua, China's state-run news service, first reported the attack on its Web site. Beijing newspapers and television stations have carried little, if any, mention of the story.
They are worried you'll have copycats, said an official from a Chinese governmental agency, speaking on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing his job. You have how many people who are destitute and disenfranchised in a city this large? (Publicizing the incident) might empower someone to do it again.
And if it happens again, you will have a mass exodus to the airport by foreigners.
Many family members of U.S. volleyball players were scheduled to arrive this week, in time to see the last few games of pool play and the ensuing medal round. All are still expected to make the trip. The USOC, taking its lead from the embassy, has issued no additional safety precautions.
There was a point where I didn't want them to come, said U.S. volleyball team member David Lee, a Granite Hills High alum whose girlfriend, parents and older brother flew in yesterday. But they really wanted to come. They said, 'We're not going to miss this.' They said, 'This could happen anywhere. It could happen in San Diego.'
But I had to make sure that, in my mind, there was no harm that could come to them.
#5
Boxers? Strange, to take it out on Americans. Unlike the other foreigners involved in that last dust up, America made no real territorial claims. Unlike the other countries, the US turned the Boxer Rebellion Indemnity around and created an education scholarship fund. Early flicker of the American approach to rebuilding rather than razing one's losing opponent. Then again it may be that we all sort of look the same to them :)
#8
BD: They probably don't have time for such nuances in the history lessons.
Ethnocentricity, not time, is really the issue. Chinese history is a series of morality plays where Chinese characters personify good, and non-Chinese characters personify evil.
Russia threatened a nuclear strike against Poland after a landmark deal to site American global anti-missile shields in the country. Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".
General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting "the allies of countries having nuclear weapons". He told Russia's Interfax news agency: "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."
Russia's nuclear rhetoric marks an intense new phase in the war of words over Georgia. The Caucasus conflict has spiralled into a Cold War style confrontation between Moscow and Washington in less than a week.
#1
ION COUNTERRTERRORISM BLOG > MARANAO THREATENS "JIHAD" OVER DEAL WITH MILF MOROS [ iff scrapped] + SITUATION IN THE SOUTH REMAINS HIGHLY VOLATILE/UNSTABLE.
Also from CT > INDONESIA STILL THREATENED BY TERRORISM.
#2
BIGNEWSNETWORK > PHILIPINES - HUNGRY FOR RICE, UNWILLING TO INVEST; + COMMUNIST LEADER -MOA/MOU FOR ANCESTRAL DOMAIN [ancestral homeland] MEANT TO FAIL.
#5
Like Poland hasn't been a target since it left the puppet strings of the Soviet Union? This time the Russians don't have a militaristic Germany to do their dirty work for them and the Poles aren't going to be a push over either. So the only threat Moscow has is nukes. Russian nuance.
#8
The US should make it clear to Bellorussia that if Russian tank columns pass through their territory they will be considered a belligerent and treated harshly.
Russia would not resort to nukes. This is blustery nonsense said by a general rather than Putin to give it deniability later.
If Russia had any brains they would start on a massive birth program to stop their declining numbers. If they had any brains they'd make friends with Europe and provide the balls the Europeans need in exchange for the civilization and markets the Europeans have to spare. Russia needs to move beyond Putin.
#12
Russia may be flush with petrodollars right now, but they have big, big, long term problems with population. Even the Chinese are eying russian territory, I don't understand why they pick now, and there, to make their play. They don't seem to have a plan, other than being a pain in the ass. Their military eq. looks like the same shit they had back before 91 to me. Their soldiers are half enlisted, half irregulars. Dangerous yes, but not the army of a superpower. I can't believe that their nuke arsenal has been maintained in any better of a manner than their army, or navy.
#13
This is the same old crap that the Russians pull every few years whether they are ruled by a Czar, a Politburo, or a President : go ape shit on one of their smaller neighbors, loot & pillage & plunder, and then install a puppet government. The Russians have demonstrated that they are nothing more than barbarians in the "Near Abroad" for the past 400 years.
#14
so heres my question - is Ukraine defensible? Looks to me like their border with the Russians is too long, and few natural obstacles. What do they do if attacked?
Standing behind a lectern in Michigan this week, with two trusted senators ready to do his bidding, John McCain seemed to forget for a moment that he was only running for president. So. Well. There you have it. He's arrogant and out of touch. Vote for B.O.
Asked about his tough rhetoric on the ongoing conflict in Georgia, McCain began: "If I may be so bold, there was another president . . ."
He caught himself and started again: "At one time, there was a president named Ronald Reagan who spoke very strongly about America's advocacy for democracy and freedom."
With his Democratic opponent on vacation in Hawaii, the senator from Arizona has been doing all he can in recent days to look like President McCain, particularly when it comes to the ongoing international crisis in Georgia.
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili says he talks to McCain, a personal friend, several times a day. McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was until recently a paid lobbyist for Georgia's government. McCain also announced this week that two of his closest allies, Sens. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) and Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), would travel to Georgia's capital of Tbilisi on his behalf, after a similar journey by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
The extent of McCain's involvement in the military conflict in Georgia appears remarkable among presidential candidates, who traditionally have kept some distance from unfolding crises out of deference to whoever is occupying the White House. The episode also follows months of sustained GOP criticism of Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, who was accused of acting too presidential for, among other things, briefly adopting a campaign seal and taking a trip abroad that included a huge rally in Berlin.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
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McCain will treat his myopia, and get it right. The Georgia nationalists are lame ducks. And their leader is despised for his folly.
Denying the Holocaust is bad. Is denial of a perverted scheme to turn NATO into an instrument of ethnic cleansing, good? Is it true that Georgian nationalists have operated on a "Georgia for the Georgians" slogan since 1991?
Would you fight to the death for America? Georgian troops abandoned military vehicles, weapons, regiment flags and uniforms. Maybe they didn't like defending ethnic cleansing in the name of Soros' "Freedom." You can read all about George Soros' operation of the "Open Society Institute of Georgia" (founded 1994) on his website, and elsewhere. Senator, don't be a pigeon to con-men.
#2
Denying the Holocaust is bad. Is denial of a perverted scheme to turn NATO into an instrument of ethnic cleansing, good?
Wow, that's a nicely passive aggressive way of accusing McCain (and by extension, anyone else who disagrees with rolling over for the neo-Soviets) Nazis.
Hopefully you _do_ realize that the Soviets had a fifty year or so history of the same rhetorical trick?
#3
McZoid? From deep down inside of your heart, do you really, really believe what you just wrote to be true?
Proof please of:
1) Denial of a perverted scheme to turn NATO into an instrument of ethnic cleansing
Please site at each one source of the perverted scheme
2) "Georgia for the Georgians" slogan since 1991
Sounds good to me, "America for the Americans." How is this different from "of the people, by the people, for the people?"
3) Georgian troops abandoned military vehicles, weapons, regiment flags and uniforms
Pictures might really help here
4) The name of Soros' "Freedom."
Got me there. Soros and freedom as words together? As in joining together to make a thought? Well, I guess "gave $20,000 in September 2002 to the Lynne Stewart Defense Committee" is preaching freedom for all, including convicted terrorists.
I'm here to learn... you put forth four statements I didn't know. And in my quest for knowledge of current events, please help me with sources of your info so I can learn.
But then, I prolly just lost 10 minutes of time that I will never recover by asking you for sources.
Google "Gamsakhurda" and you will see that Georgian nationalists are ethnic cleansers. And they insist on maintaining a statue of Stalin in front of Gromi City Hall.
In a FOX TV interview on Friday, Senator McCain clearly focused on the need to build good relations with Russia. And that came after a week of verbal barbs. That Realpolitick is the result of the nationalist humiliation. Georgians are first to attack Saakashvili; he is a lame duck leader. His appearance with Condi Rice - who looked disdainfully at the man who imposed the embarassing public statement spectacle - reveals extreme exasperation. Yah, he tried to turn NATO into an instrument for ethnic cleansing. Apparently Westerners are looking away when video is played of the indiscriminate bombing of Ossetian cities and villages. This isn't 1956.
#6
Maybe they didn't like defending ethnic cleansing in the name of Soros' "Freedom."
Sadly, this seems to be the talking point to excuse the Russians. I have seen this ridiculous canard put forth three times now, so I guess that's their story and they are sticking to it. Usually, the posters claim the Russians were "provoked" to invade.
You can always tell the apologists, they are unable to refer to Georgia as a country or nation or Republic, instead they refer to it as a "The Breakaway Republic".
What a bizzaro world we have entered where people actually will bite on some sort of nefarious connection between Soros and McCain to excuse a Russian invasion of another country.
#7
Zviad Gamsakhurdia termed himself "the Saddam Hussein of the Caucasus." He was a nutbag and he thankfully came to a satisfyingly bad end. Jabba Ioselani was a nutbag, too. The Mkhedrioni were thugs. Big surprise. Shevardnadze looked like a good idea at the time, turned into the Guest Who Wouldn't Leave. Whoopdy doo.
The idea behind the Rose Revolution was to get away from all that sort of drama and institutionalized oppression and institute a modern government. Saakashvili's been trying to do that, despite his and Georgia's limitations.
Soviet apologetics used to make me gag. Post-Soviet apologetics make me want to puke.
Georgia's been raped in the same manner all of Eastern Europe was raped. Deal with it.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 9:33 Comments ||
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#8
Ethnic cleansing does not equal genocide. Forcing a population to move is not necessarily a bad thing and may be required in many cases in order to have a true long lasting peace. Some folks just don't get along and when you get divorced it is common for one party to move out of the house. Instead the Russians started moving family and friends in.
Ossetia was a breakaway province. I know of no law anywhere that prevents you from retaking breakaway states. Imagine New Mexico succeeding from the union and Mexico sitting right there with a couple hundred tanks and APCs grinning and laughing at us. That's what Georgia has been dealing with for the last 10 years. Now imagine Mexico sending that army into New Mexico as "peacekeepers" staged just inside the border of New Mexico, ready to attack any minute. It's the exact same situation and it could just as easily happen here.
#14
I hope McZoid is as energetic in attempting to influence the government of Canada (where his server resides) to take the threat of Islamicism seriously as he is in asserting his opinions here.
#15
M: Is denial of a perverted scheme to turn NATO into an instrument of ethnic cleansing, good? Is it true that Georgian nationalists have operated on a "Georgia for the Georgians" slogan since 1991?
One key difference between the end of WWII and the end of the Cold War is that at the end of WWII, all Japanese and German colonists/immigrants in the Far East and Europe were forcibly relocated to Japan and Germany, whether or not they had been there prior to the beginning of the war, whereas post-Cold War Russians were not forcibly deported to Russia. The Georgian incident illustrates why formerly occupied countries are wise to expel the settlers sent by their former rulers in cases where the colonial culture is not only non-assimilationist - it is a revanchist one. The ruling Swedes assimilated into Finland - why can't Russians assimilate into their new countries?
#21
Of course they count, but the offenses seem to have been mutual ones. Georgians did raid Ossetian villages as well.
Nobody is innocent. But Georgia escalated the conflict in an unacceptable way. Shelling the major city while its inhabitants are sleeping and hoping the Russians would just protest was totally idiotic.
And while Russia isn't a democracy, Georgia is far from being one either. Saakashvili suppressed opposition manifestations, bullied independent media, rigged the presidential and parliamentary elections.
Georgia is run by mafia-like structures, rife with corruption. It's not your good young Western democracy.
Saakashvili is as much an autocrat as Putin, with less rational behavior.
#22
I agree that the Georgian rocket attack was, to put it mildly, stupid.
But that is where our agreement ends.
There was no need to go on rampage inside Georgia--destruction, killing sprees, lootings, etc.
If Russians simply pushed Georgians from S Ossetia proper and positioned themselves on the border, nobody would say a thing. But that is not what happened. I don't even mention the propaganda machine, set into high gear, spewing baldfaced lies as a form of a capital to buy "doing as they please".
But given the context--Russian threats to the counties on their perifery and beyond--beside the barbarity of Russian and proxies' actions within Georgia, that all post-empt any moral high ground that Russians could claim.
#23
This I believe of the period after Saint Saakashvilli resigned as Shevardnadze's Minister of Justice:
"A year after he was made justice minister he resigned, declaring that Mr Shevardnadze was complicit in the criminality bedevilling Georgia."
"In opposition he caught the eye of George Soros, the American billionaire and philanthropist who had initially become involved in Georgia at Mr Shevardnadze's request. Mr Soros also had become irritated by the 'Silver Fox's' (Shevardnadze) go slow approach, and he decided that Mr Saakashvilli was the embodiment of Georgia's future."
"The Soros foundations began pouring millions of dollars into organizations that were nominally interested in free media and democracy building but mainly served to undermine Mr Shevardnadze's rule and push for Mr Saashvilli to succeed him (including the youth movement, Kmara, which would provide the backbone of the protests during the Rose Revolution)."
(As voters began to distrust Saashvalli's increasingly personalist and autocratic style - an amalgam of the personality cult of his Georgian mentors, Stalin and Gamsakhurdia - he called an abrupt election in early 2008 and his United National Movement won a bare mandate with 53% popular support) "Radical reforms inevitably left many Georgians behind. Discontent grew as Mr Saakashvilli slashed the size of the civil service, and opposition demonstrations - including some organized by a group known simply as Anti-Soros - became a regular feature on Tbilisi's streets last year. In November the President ordered riot police to disperse the protests with tear gas, water cannons and batons."
Milton wrote: "Don't tell me what doesn't fit into my preconception manifold." Not really.
Hasn't Soros denounced the "Clash of Civilizations" notion, and doesn't he carp at every aspect of President Bush's GWOT?
We still don not know that well what really happened on both sides in the last days, how many people died, what was destroyed, what is looted.
We are relying way to much on propaganda from both sides. Russian propaganda is clumsier.
It's easy to say that the Russians should not have crossed into Georgia proper when Georgian logistics and reinforcement came from Gori. Thzat's just not realistic. Once you are in a war you do whazt you think has to be done to stop the enemy.
NATO even bombed bridges north of Belgrade in the Kosovo War of 1999.
#26
Look, I don't have any love for Saakashvili and re Soros money bag--a good thing by irony, at least the money that he spent on Georgians were not available for some mischief. Soros may have had some agenda on mind, but that does not mean his investmnt worked out, sometimes you lose.
If I were Bush and knew Soros is spending money on "color revolutions" in small countries--if it is not contradicting the foreign policy, why would I stop him?
There is no nefarious connection, just your tendency to see them where they really aren't.
#30
No, the Evil Bear now knows we will back up those that stood the line with us, we will not let them destroy democracies that they feel should not exist, we will not let them hold a monopoly on euro gas ..and if it comes to all out war so be it...
should we wait for the Ukraine to fall ..
should we wait for Poland ... as they said .. to be nuked.?
#32
Are you claiming the Mexicans are developing nuke tipped missiles for use against the infidel Bahamians and the Russians out of the kindness of their frozen hearts ride to the rescue?
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 20:57 Comments ||
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#33
we already are 'pointing' missiles at them .. if not it could be arranged in minutes...
that's how the missiles work..
we should have taken out Cuba in '63..
{ i think it was 63}
Venezuela IMHO will destroy itself, even with their oil profits they have angry neighbors and citizens..
#34
To be more serious, have you looked on a map where the Russian missile fields are located and how the hell an interceptor in Poland is going to destroy an ICBM aim at Omaha?
The real reason the Russians are going ape shit is because once the interceptors are operational, their ability to blackmail Europe with limited nuclear strikes is gone.
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 21:02 Comments ||
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#35
That is a good thing, right?
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 21:03 Comments ||
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#36
sigh
Sometimes I wonder. I usually don't chime in with the chorus here who say let Western Europe stew in its own decline. But the veto by Germany of even starting a process towards possible NATO membership by Georgia is pushing me in that direction.
I'm tired of sanctimonious, play-both-sides-of-the-street Euros, and Germany is at the top of the tables in that league right now in my reckoning.
The people who triggered the bloodshed in the former Yugoslavia in order to privilege the former Ustasi leaders in charge of the Croat breakaway insurgents have absolutely no moral standing to opine about Georgia.
#37
Europeans and Asians are watching Saint Saakashvilli's now infamous tie-eating video. They are also watching Fox's infamous suppression of a 12 year old American girl's reports of her experience under Georgian artillery fire. Then there is CNN's infamous cut-off of Condi's press conference, when a Russian reporter brought up moral equivalence.
Yah, Soros' Open Society really does yield open minds. Gotta preserve those preconceptions.
#40
Germans? They - like most of NATO's moral arbitrage factory - refused to answer President Bush's invocation of Article 5 (North Atlantic Treaty) after Taliban/al-Qaeda executed mass murder on US soil.
#41
"The real reason the Russians are going ape shit is because once the interceptors are operational, their ability to blackmail Europe with limited nuclear strikes is gone."
Oh you mean it's NOT about Iranian missiles?
"Interceptors" btw are classical dual use weapons. Just depends on your intention.
#42
'To be more serious, have you looked on a map 'where the Russian missile fields are located and how the hell an interceptor in Poland is going to destroy an ICBM aim at Omaha?'
yes I know where they are suppose to be..
you know and I know that the polish defence won't stop a missile in BFE USA ..it was never suppose to..
they are upset it seems to me because current Russian doctrine says that any use of our advanced conventional weaponry .. laser guided sh## - night superiority -- stealth-- etc is governed by their use of tactical nukes...
if we use toys they don't have they'll play nuke em'
they don't need a limited strike option when they have a MADD option and a weak NATO
#43
Businessmen rule Russia, not Communist apparatchiks
Naive, disingenous claim of the day.
Even Putin's buddy Schroeder had a rather Red Brigade-ish start to his political career as I recall. It's no coincidence that he is now a wealthy director of Gazprom. If you think the 'entrepreneurs' of today's Russia don't have direct links to the FSB you've blinded yourself to a pretty well documented reality.
#51
Germany's current army couldn't stop a pack of teenage shoplifters.
I know several fine, professional German officers. They are in the minority. In the main your army is exactly what you want it to be -- ineffective but maintaining the pretense of holding up your responsibilities.
You are free-riders. You take but do not give. Some of us are tired of enabling that.
#55
80% of the top Russian leaders are of KGB background. Further down the pecking order, all businesses and institutions have under employ current or former KGB fixer. They are the real power. The name may have changed, the ideology has not.
Oh you mean it's NOT about Iranian missiles?
Interceptors, by definition, intercept what is aimed at them. Polish interceptors are not a threat against Russian missiles aimed at the US. They are a threat to missiles, Iranian or Russian, aimed at Europe. The question is: Why is Russia threatening nuclear war against neighbors?
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 21:32 Comments ||
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#56
All members of NATO, according to chapter 5 of the treaty, responded simultaneously and without delay, standing up in solidarity with the US
Chuckle.
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 21:37 Comments ||
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However, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's coalition partners, the Greens, may have more difficulty in doing so.
The party has its roots in the peace movement, and many members retain a pacifist stance.
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer is a Green Party member, and supports the military campaign.
But one of the party's national leaders, Claudia Roth, has called for a halt to the bombing, to allow humanitarian supplies to be distributed.
Earlier this year, German plans to send troops to join the Nato-led force in Macedonia became bogged down in conflict, when the Christian Democrats and some Social Democrat backbenchers threatened to oppose the move.
A rebellion was averted only when extra concessions, including more cash for the armed forces, were promised. A number of other countries have also offered military support to the US, including Australia, Turkey and France.
Then it issued rules of engagement that ensured Germans would never get anywhere near the difficult or dangerous work in Afghanistan. In fact, US pilots have had to risk their own lives to bring Germans out whenever anything like danger approached.
Color me unimpressed. In fact, color me contemptuous.
#59
Any US assets in Europe are targeted by Russia as any Russian assets anywhere in the world will be targeted by the U.S.
Missile defense is dual use. A missile can be used to destroy an Iranian missile but nothing prevents it to be fitted with a nuclear warhead and destroy Moscow.
#66
Yes, German troops have died in Afghanistan. But that was despite your government's best attempts to avoid having them anywhere near actual fighting.
I honor them. I do not honor what has become an all too convenient habit of Germany with regard to international obligations.
#69
It might be a miss understanding on my part but the missiles in Poland cant reach Moskova can they.
GMD missiles are quite large, about IRBM size. They are designed to get out of the atmosphere very fast under radar guidance and release an antimissile kill vehicle.
While a missile that large could easily reach Moscow, it has neither the payload or flight profile for a nuclear warhead delivery vehicle. It would be much better to use something like the smaller Pershing II, a missile that really did scare the Soviets.
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 22:12 Comments ||
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#71
Looking at German Afghanistan casualty reports I see 3 WIA from a firefight. The rest from suicide or IED ambushes. Of course, KSK casualties, while listed, may not list the true cause. How's that for conspiratorial fodder?
Posted by: ed ||
08/16/2008 22:19 Comments ||
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#72
McCain has a temper and a short fuse. He needs to be on the front lines on a Sherman tank, not the Oval Office.
As a republican colleague said in 2000, "Keep this guy as far away from the trigger as possible."
#73
1. Re McCain - Obama is taking the same general position, if expressing it differently. When I decide whom to vote for I will consider Iraq, Iran, domestic policies, even Israel - Georgia will not be a differentiator
2. Re S Ossetian genocide - if the Russians care about genocide, why have they helped block attempts to take action on Darfur?
3. Re who started it - my impression is that in the weeks leeding up to the Georgian attack, it was largely Ossetian provocations that were happening not Georgian ones. Im sure there are those who contest that, just as Saak claims that he didnt launch his attack till the Russians were on the march
4. WRT Germany - at this point Im looking less for German troops, than for Germany to support the eastern members of NATO verbally very loudly, and to show they will take whatever economic retaliation Putin has in mind. That would go far to changing mindsets.
#3
Last week Edwards said he has been honest 99% of the time. Do you think this is part of that 99%... or not?
Posted by: regular joe ||
08/16/2008 8:45 Comments ||
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#4
He might not consider it hush money, but the feds might consider it a crime.
The earlier, $14,000 payment to Hunter is significant because its source was Edwards' OneAmerica political action committee, whose expenditures are governed by U.S. election laws. Willfully converting political action committee money to personal use would have been a federal criminal violation.
#5
Importantly, $12,000 is the limit for legal gifts. Anything over that amount must be reported as income. And if over $10,000 is transferred between individuals in a six month period, there are substantial reporting requirements for any institution involved.
This means that unless this courier was transporting cash, there should be a paper trail or federal law has been violated. And unless she reported the money as income, she may be guilty of tax evasion.
#6
Meh. When's the last time the FEC handed out real punishment for campaign fraud? For that matter, when's the last time the IRS nailed a high-profile politically connected person?
Posted by: regular joe ||
08/16/2008 11:16 Comments ||
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#7
I always thought the dems were really gung-ho for abortion. Seems like 1 abortion would have made this all go away for lots less money...
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
08/16/2008 12:19 Comments ||
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#8
"when's the last time the IRS nailed a high-profile politically connected person?"
Dunno about the politically connected part, joe, but Wesley Snipes comes to mind for the high-profile part....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/16/2008 12:45 Comments ||
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#9
"Edwards is honest 99% of the time"...99% of nothing (absolutely no sense of values) is still nothing.
Members of Nepal's parliament have overwhelmingly elected the Maoist leader Prachanda as the country's new prime minister. The 53-year-old won 80% of votes to defeat his only rival, the Congress Party candidate, Sher Bahadur Deuba.
Maoists won a surprise victory in April elections, and two other key parties supported Prachanda in the vote. Last month, Nepal swore in a mainly ceremonial president, Ram Baran Yadav, after the monarchy was scrapped in May.
'Lenin or Napoleon'
It is only two years since Prachanda emerged from more than two decades underground as a militant communist leader. "I am very happy and very emotional," he said as he left the constituent assembly after the vote, reported AFP news agency.
What the Maoists called their "people's war" had left 13,000 people dead, tens of thousands displaced and much of the country's infrastructure destroyed. The BBC's Charles Haviland in Kathmandu says that now the former guerrilla will be the most powerful politician in the Himalayan country, after 464 lawmakers gave him their vote and only 113 rejected him.
The Maoists' deputy leader, Baburam Bhattarai, said: "Today is a day of pride and it will be written with golden letters in the history of the nation."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 01:01 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[8 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Good luck with that Nepal.
As if life wasn't shitty enough already, now you have to goose step to bread line past the machine guns.
The Pakistan People's Party (PPP) believes that if President Pervez Musharraf does not resign within the next 72 hours --before the process of his impeachment begins --the political crisis will deepen, a senior PPP leader told Daily Times.
He said President Musharraf was expected to quit within 72 hours. "If he continues to stick to his position and does not resign, it will create a situation leaving the government with no option but to ask the army chief to intervene and help resolve the political crisis," he said.
Another source also confirmed that the PPP-led coalition was likely to approach Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to negotiate a deal between President Musharraf and the four-party ruling coalition to end the political impasse in the country.
"General Kayani will be asked to intervene, if the president does not show flexibility," the source said. It has also been learnt that President Musharraf is not ready to accept any thing short of 'honourable' stay in Pakistan with full presidential protocol and benefits with legal cover to his actions in case of his resignation.
The coalition partners on the other side, despite their internal differences, want Musharraf to quit before they submit a resolution in the National Assembly. "The coalition partners are also ready to let Musharraf go to a country of his choice, at least for the time being," another source said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 00:50 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan
Boeing has successfully completed the first ground test of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL) aircraft, achieving a key milestone in the ATL Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program.
During the test Aug. 7 at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., the ATL aircraft, a C-130H, fired its high-energy chemical laser through its beam control system.
The beam control system acquired a ground target and guided the laser beam to the target, as directed by ATL's battle management system. The laser passes through a rotating turret on the aircraft's belly.
"By firing the laser through the beam control system for the first time, the ATL team has begun to demonstrate the functionality of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the aircraft," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of Boeing Missile Defense Systems.
"This is a major step toward providing the ultra-precision engagement capability that the warfighter needs to dramatically reduce collateral damage."
After conducting additional tests on the ground and in the air, the program will demonstrate ATL's military utility by firing the laser in-flight at mission-representative ground targets later this year.
#1
The Democrats are desperate to cancel this program, as they believe our having missile defenses is "provocative" to enemy nations that have missiles. Seriously, this is what they say. Bloody idiots.
#2
ION SPACEWAR > WORLD OCEANS ON THE PRECIPICE OF MASS EXTINCTIONS AND THE RISE OF SLIME [Complex life devol towards Simple] + TOPIX > ANTARCTIC WARMING LINKED TO WARM PACIFIC CURRENTS.
#7
The Advanced Tactical Laser isn't just a missile defense system, it's an air to ground tactical system designed to blow stuff up. Apparently it's the equivalent of a really hot blowtorch that will slice through whatever you aim it at. So it can track and down a cruise missile or, just as easily, take on a high-value ground target.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/16/2008 9:50 Comments ||
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#8
So it could go through 100 or so russian troop carriers fairly quick, in maybe 2 minutes or so?
Nice.
#9
Probably not. Tactical lasers are useful, but there are some significant limitations on what you can do with them.
They destroy missiles by heating a *small* spot on the surface which usually detonates the payload or onboard fuel before the beam can melt that spot through.
The amount of energy you can put on a spot is affected in potentially significant ways by air density and humidity. Killing a missile in the thin atmosphere is much easier than killing it near sea level close to an ocean, for instance. The DOD joint program office for energy weapons has a sophisticated model that predicts the performance of a given laser against a given target in a given trajectory / ground motion as a function of those factors.
The strongest laser beams are chemically powered, which is one reason the mobile TLs haven't been deployed in Iraq. The stuff is nasty and requires a significant logistics tail, not to mention troop training.
The airborne lasers are IIRC electrically powered. These are useful against certain vulnerable ground targets but far from capable of 'slicing through' most things.
#10
I wouldn't think it would be able to cut metal, no.
But if it hit a tank or apc wouldn't there be a huge temp change in the cabin very quickly? What temp does electrical wiring's insulation melt? What temp would set your clothes on fire? Would it do that?
#11
There are also ground based apps for these too, for incoming artillery and such, so they must be able to work well at sea level. A piece of motorized armor could be given a much longer contact I would think.
I wonder, does anyone really know what it can do yet.
#12
Yes. There have been a lot of successful trials for ground-based tactical lasers including rocket/artillery/mortar interceptions. But the air density issues are a real factor that affect operational deployment and use scenarios for short-range attacks. (The tests were held in the arid American southwest.)
Air space management is an even bigger issue since, unlike bullets or kinetic countermeasures, a beam that misses its target continues in a straight line and threatens planes and copters in the area. DOD has done a lot of analysis about whether and how to use these things. There's a reason ground-based lasers aren't deployed in Iraq despite the successful trials in the States.
#13
The laser will not be able to destroy tanks. It can penetrate thin metal, aluminum can to slightly thicker, and can take out most soft targets. Antenna on tanks are what the lasers would target to make them blind. For other vehicles, tires, fuel cans, radios, etc. would all be targeted and destroyed. "Technicals", trucks with machine guns on them, would be a juicy target for the airborne laser since they are plentiful in 3rd world countries and special operation teams just try to avoid them since they are harder and nosier to kill. A laser popping the tires from 300 miles away as per a radio request is a much better solution. Mobility kills are almost as good, and sometimes better.
A National Research Council blue-ribbon panel of defense experts is recommending development and testing of a conventional warhead for submarine-launched intercontinental Trident missiles to give the president an alternative to using nuclear weapons for a prompt strike anywhere in the world. In critical situations, such an immediate global strike weapon "would eliminate the dilemma of having to choose between responding to a sudden threat either by using nuclear weapons or by not responding at all," the panel said in a final report requested by Congress in early 2007 and released yesterday.
One major congressional concern was that to other countries, such as Russia or China, the launch of a conventional Trident missile could not be distinguished from a nuclear one and could be mistaken for the start of a nuclear war. The panel recognized that problem and suggested several ways to mitigate it, but in the end it concluded that the benefits outweighed the risks. The panel said that before any deployment takes place, there should be diplomatic discussions, particularly with partner countries. The panel also said that few countries, other than Russia and perhaps China, would be able to detect a sub-launched missile "in the next five years," and that because of the few warheads that would be involved, "the risk of the observing nation's launching a nuclear retaliatory attack is very low."
The panel also adopted the Defense Department's idea that the goal of having one-hour capability for execution of a strike anywhere in the world is "sensible." It noted that in the 1990s, several attempts to kill Osama bin Laden or other al-Qaeda leaders failed because weapons systems available then, such as sub-launched cruise missiles, were not fast enough.
The panel was chaired by Albert Carnesale, former chancellor of the University of California at Los Angeles and former provost at Harvard who served as a negotiator on the SALT I arms-control treaty. The panel also included John S. Foster Jr., a former director of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Defense Department director of research and development and chairman of the Committee on the Present Danger; Richard L. Garwin, IBM fellow emeritus at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center who from 1993 to 2001 chaired the Arms Control and Nonproliferation Advisory Board of the State Department; and retired Air Force Gen. Eugene E. Habiger, former head of Strategic Command.
#1
Rods from God would provide a much quicker and more powerful conventional response.
Wiki on Kinetic Bombardment
Moreover, space supremacy can probably be converted to air and sea supremacy. As an example for discussion, consider the system this author has described under the name "THOR". Thor consists of orbiting steel rods perhaps 20 feet long by one foot in diameter. They contain minimal terminal guidance capability, and a means of locating themselves and their targets through GPS. They can strike fixed targets with CEP approaching 25 feet. Few elements of air and naval power are invulnerable to bombardment by kinetic energy weapons from space. No ship can withstand the impact of 20 feet of steel rod at velocities greater than 12,000 feet per second. Airfields wont fare much better.
#5
Nope. The Missile industrial complex has had a hard-on for this type of warhead for years. There is nothing that this thing could do, that an F-18 or B-2 couldn't. Yet, it would put everyone's finger on the nuclear launch button if it were ever used. Nice concept, not worth it.
#6
CondorMan, you still gotta expend the energy to get those projectiles in position, energy best used to launch a larger warhead in a conventional parobola. Orbital mechanics (greasy f@@kers each and everyone) is best used for surprise. Up quick, down quicker. Franktional Orbit Bombardment System, but that's only useful with a nuke warhead. (not that there's anything wrong with that).
A huge crowd cheered Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim Saturday as he registered for a by-election to return him to parliament, the next step in his plan to become prime minister. The August 26 ballot in Anwar's home state of Penang is also seen as a test of his popularity after a young male aide accused him of sodomy -- the same charge that saw him jailed a decade ago.
"I am touched by the support. This is an overwhelming support," Anwar said as he arrived at the nomination centre in the Permatang Pauh constituency, which was locked down by barricades and an armed security presence. Some 30,000 supporters shouted Anwar's battle cry of "Reformasi" or "Reform", and waved party flags, facing off against 5,000 government supporters and trading taunts and insults. At least 3,000 police including the riot squad were deployed to keep the peace and a police helicopter hovered overhead. "We want change. The future is Anwar. Long live Anwar!" chanted supporters of the opposition leader, a former deputy premier who was sacked in 1998 and convicted on a sodomy charge that was later overturned.
Anwar, 61, has said the sodomy allegations have been fabricated to prevent him from ousting the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition, after March elections that handed the opposition alliance a third of parliamentary seats. He was formally charged earlier this month, just after his wife vacated the Permatang Pauh constituency -- which she has held since he went to jail -- to allow him to return to parliament after a decade-long absence.
Anwar has said he is still pursuing his plan to wrest power within months, with the help of government defectors, despite the looming sodomy trial. On Friday, Anwar's accuser Mohamad Saiful Bukhari Azlan, a 23-year-old former volunteer in the opposition leader's office, visited a mosque to swear he was telling the truth and challenged Anwar to do the same. He also said he was sodomised against his will, although when Anwar was formally accused in court the charge indicated the alleged sex act was consensual.
Anwar said at a rally Friday night that Saiful's action was part of the government plot. "They are afraid of me being an MP and going on to become the opposition leader in parliament," he said.
Sarimah Ali, a 33-year-old teacher who was among the huge crowd of Anwar supporters, said the renewed allegations were of no concern. "Nobody believes Saiful. His swearing in the mosque yesterday makes it more clear that it's a government conspiracy to bring down Anwar," he said.
#2
This isn't the first time the PM of Malaysia has used sodomy allegations to punish a political opponent.
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
08/16/2008 13:04 Comments ||
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#3
Is a sodomy conviction not bad for politicians in that part of the world?
In Malaysia, newpaper companies are privately held, but must toe the line, or have their publishing licenses yanked. My guess is that nobody believes what the government is forcing newspapers to print.
#4
The government of the day which has held power for 51 years and badly screwed the people for some 40 years is fast losing its support. See that in most M'sian blogs, e.g. :
http://tinyurl.com/36z8sd
http://tinyurl.com/55c4pv
http://tinyurl.com/6q5vsm
Oil prices fell to the $111 level Friday, reaching their lowest point in more than three months after the dollar muscled higher and OPEC predicted world demand for energy will keep falling. I'm still not driving any more than I absolutely have to. I urge the rest of the world to do the same, not that the rest of the world listens to me.
Oil prices dropped lower on speculation that demand will fall further in the coming months. Light, sweet crude for September delivery fell $3.26 to $111.75 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after earlier falling to $111.34, its lowest since May 2 and more than $35 -- or 24 percent -- below oil's July 11 trading record above $147.
As high energy costs force countries around the globe to cut back on consumption, crude prices have plummeted and are now within striking distance of $100 a barrel, a level first reached Feb. 19.
At the pump, retail gas prices also continued to fall, with a gallon of regular shedding about half a penny overnight to a new national average of $3.771, according to auto club AAA, the Oil Price Information Service and Wright Express. Gas peaked at $4.114 on July 17.
Crude fell after the dollar gained strength against the euro on U.S. data showing that industrial output rose more than expected in July. The 15-nation euro has lost some of its luster compared to its American rival amid growing evidence that European economies are slowing. The euro bought $1.4672 in trading Friday, down from $1.4811 late Thursday.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/16/2008 00:23 ||
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#1
ION LIVESCIENCE > EARTH'S TECTONIC PLATES' MOTION MAY EVENTUALLY STOP.
#4
And on that news, I went out and traded my X5 for a new one. 4 years or 50k warranty including all maintenance. Plus I have only driven the old one 40k in 4 years.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
08/16/2008 9:11 Comments ||
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#5
I notice that with selling pressure winning out that provocative comments from belligerent leaders dont seem to have any affect on oil prices. Even the Russian attempted bombing of the oil pipeline in Georgia didn't really have much effect.
#6
And on that news, I went out and traded my X5 for a new one. 4 years or 50k warranty including all maintenance. Plus I have only driven the old one 40k in 4 years.
My bossman just got a BMW X3 for less than a Dodge full size pickup, better on the fuel for the commute.
#7
The Olympics are over. I would expect a sharp spike in Chinese demand is collapsing. But I would not be surprised to see China use the storage facilities and dollar reserves they have built as a weapon against us again in the future. Say January?
#8
But they have also been diversifying huge amounts of foreign capital reserves to (hee, hee) Euros,Pounds, and JapYen. So they may not be sitting as pretty as they would like us to believe. Add to that their inflation problem, and you could have a serious market correction in the next couple of years there too.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
N'DJAMENA, Chad (AP) - A Chadian court on Friday sentenced a former president and eleven rebels to death for crimes against the state, an official said. 
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Thursday accused the United States of masterminding the current conflict between Georgia and Russia. A statement from Chavez's government alleged the conflict was "planned, prepared and ordered" by Washington in an "incitement of violence." It gives no evidence to support those claims. It also said Russia acted to protect local residents from "unacceptable acts of violence" perpetrated by Georgian troops.
_karta_vojny.jpg)
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said that a preliminary deal allowing the US to site missiles in Poland is aimed against Russia. 
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday he signed a cease-fire accord that orders Russian troops to withdraw from his country, calling the Russians barbarians who had been plotting for months to invade and occupy his country's sovereign soil. 
Russia threatened a nuclear strike against Poland after a landmark deal to site American global anti-missile shields in the country. Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".
Standing behind a lectern in Michigan this week, with two trusted senators ready to do his bidding, John McCain seemed to forget for a moment that he was only running for president. 
Members of Nepal's parliament have overwhelmingly elected the Maoist leader Prachanda as the country's new prime minister. The 53-year-old won 80% of votes to defeat his only rival, the Congress Party candidate, Sher Bahadur Deuba. 
Oil prices fell to the $111 level Friday, reaching their lowest point in more than three months after the dollar muscled higher and OPEC predicted world demand for energy will keep falling.
