Article

2003-03-26 Fifth Column

Jihad TV: al Jazeera, the global madrassa

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Posted by kgb 2003-03-26 10:34 am|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Where does their money come from? are they part of the nebula of Saudi-financed jihadi activism?

I noticed they ran an ad for Swiss watches (Tissot, spit!).

Posted by Kalle 2003-03-26 11:21:23|| [radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentevents/] 2003-03-26 11:21:23|| Front Page Top

#2 I believe a lot of their money comes from the Emir of Qatar.

Posted by Michael 2003-03-26 12:45:43|| 2003-03-26 12:45:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Is this expert going to offer any credible evidence to back up these claims? There can be no doubt that Al-Jazeera broadcasts propaganda....all networks due during war time. However, the American news channels far exceed anything done before. They all seemed to proudly and uncritically present Powell's "evidence" to the world, diligently failing to verify any of it. When most of the "evidence" was rebuked, I did not see reporters clammoring over themselves trying to "challenge authority", as we all think they are supposed to.

Where are the question's about America's past relationship with Hussein? How much democracy did they bring to countries like Nicaragua, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and the numerous other countries that it has "intervened" in.

Your cry for respect for international law is truly hysterical. First off....this is an ILLEGAL invasion. UNSC 1441 did not authorize this attack. The UN Charter is clear on this point. Customary international law is clear on this point.

With respect to the Geneva Convention, all U.S., British, and Candian networks have been showing footage of Iraqi prisoners in restraints, sometimes even face down in the sand. Does this violate article 13? Probably.

"Enemy combatants" held in Guantanamo Bay are being mistreated to such a degree that the U.S. is in violation of no less than 15 articles of the same convention. They were displayed on TV (art. 13), stripped and deprived of their possessions (art. 18), interned in a penitentiary (art. 22), denied proper mess facilities (art. 26), canteens (28), religios premises (34), opportunities for physical exercise (38), access to the text of the convention (41).

Worse yet, they cannot write their families (Arts. 70 and 71), and are denied access to parcels of food and books. (72)

They have not been released and repatriated withoud delay (Art. 118), because they are being interrogated in a manner that contravenes Article 17.

They have no access to counsel, and many have attempted suicide.

The U.S. says the convention does not apply to them because they are not prisoners of war. This claim itself runs contrary to Article 4 of the third convention.

I guess the message from the right is the same as it has always been....International Law does not apply to us, but it applies to everyone else....Our side reports the truth, while everyone else has ulterior motives.

It's easy to criticize others. It takes courage to turn a critical eye towards yourself and your own country. Nevertheless, it is infinitely more important that you hold yourself accountable.

By the way, to all you right-wing human rights advocates, where were all your cries back in the 70s and 80s, when the Washington Post and the New York Times were praising Hussein as a "moderate"? Where were your voices when the government was spending tax-payers' money to supply Iraq with Chemical and Biological weapons, knowing full well what they were used for?

How does it feel to know that our children our being shot at with ammunition that we all paid for?

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 15:24:57|| 2003-03-26 15:24:57|| Front Page Top

#4 Uh, Drew: The United States is a sovereign nation. We don't give a damn what the United Nations says. We feel the need to put an end to Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq, to protect our nation and its people. We will stomp that government into the dust, wipe off our shoes, and go about setting up a government that will both be nice to its people and the rest of the world. I'm sure there are a number of people watching very closely as we do this - people who will suddenly decide to "make nice", instead of continuing their irrelevant rant and arrogant, angry screams.

All we want in this world is to live in peace. Those that disturb that peace will be hunted down and destroyed.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-03-26 15:45:06|| 2003-03-26 15:45:06|| Front Page Top

#5 Uh, Old Patriot: Tell me why you believe that we will set up a nice government? We've never done that before. The usual practice is to install a puppet dictator who will prompltly slaughter all those who foolishly think that the resources of their nation belong to them....instead of us and our puppets.

I am shocked that you people actually believe Iraq is a threat to the most powerful empire on earth. They can barely defend their own country, let alone attack ours.

Terrorism you say? Give me a break. The administration has provided no evidence that substantiates this outrageous claim. Even if they do knowingly support terror, they have a long way to go to approach our record....remember the Contras? You remember, those Honduran mercinaries who bravely attacked Nicaraguan "soft targets" - ie, schools, clinics, civilians - rather than take on the Army?

By the way, the constitution of this "soveriegn nation" states that all international treaties are immediately part of the domestic law. That means the government is breaking their own laws right now.

Oh yeah, all we want is to live in peace....with those who obey and give us what we want. But if there really was peace, what would we do with GE, Honeywell, Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, etc., etc., etc.

By the way, the Germans felt the need to put an end to the Polish and Czech governments to protect its people too. They also thought the Russians would welcome them with open-arms, since Stalin was so brutal.

We live in an empire. It's hard to admit this, so most of go about our daily lives internally rebutting the evidence, or convincing ourselves that our country is hated because everyone else "is jealous". What a joke.

Perhaps one day there will be enough courage in this country to ask these questions....and go about building the type of democracy that Thomas Jefferson had intended.

Probably not though. We'll all just continue to live in irrational fear, waiting for the all-powerful Cubans to overrun us.

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 16:09:43|| 2003-03-26 16:09:43|| Front Page Top

#6 Drew - thank you for your rant. You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt what kind of individual you are, and what you believe. Now that I have learned all I ever needed to know about you, you will be placed in my "Ignore" bin, where you belong.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-03-26 16:30:11|| 2003-03-26 16:30:11|| Front Page Top

#7 Ah yes...the mantra of the right....

"Don't bother me with facts or intellectual analysis, my mind is made up! Racism, obedience and hatred are much easier"

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 16:45:56|| 2003-03-26 16:45:56|| Front Page Top

#8 Hoo, boy...first, allow me to apologize to the other readers for the following response rant to Drew's slimey schpiel.

Hey, Drew! Why don;t you bring your person and your leftist ideals over to Antioch, CA and confront me with this claptrap? Got the guts, boy? I deal with leftist racist bigots like yourself in a very straightforward way and I dealt with one just like you last night when I told him essentially the same thing I'm telling you.

Point: Resolution 1441 actually did authorize "severe consequences" for any material breach by Iraq.

Point: Iraq was found in "material breach" of UN resolutions.

Point: Iraq has repeatedly and irresponsibly violated the terms of Gulf War I's ceasefire agreement. By that authority alone the US has the right and the responsibility to wage war on Iraq. Iraq's repeated violations of humanitarian rights, its repeated violations of the no-fly zones, its repeated firings on US aircraft enforcing the ceasefire agreement terms, and countless other violations over the past 10 years gives the US and its allies the moral authority to do exactly what we are doing.

Point: The USA does not bow to anyone, particularly the UN. The surrender of US sovereignty to the UN has been the goal of that organization and leftist idiots like yourself for years.

This war is patently not illegal except to uninformed leftist halfwits like yourself who worship on your knees at the feet of the Clintons and whom would gladly perform for BillyJeff just exactly the same service that Monica gave the impeached one.

Where were you when Clinton tossed a few cruise missiles into Sudan at an aspirin factory? Where were you when the massacre in Rwanda was going on? Where were you and your fellow leftists when Clinton rained hell on Serbia?

You sure as hell weren;t marching in the streets or arguing on Rantburg. No, you guys were all for those actions (or lack thereof in Rwanda's case).

If you hate this country half so much as you indicate in your rant, get the f*ck out of it already! We have enough to deal with without Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyite trash whose only wish is to see America fall before world communism and socialism. I'll pay for your G*dda*ned ticket so long as you promise not to come back!

Go pound sand you idiot.

Posted by FOTSGreg 2003-03-26 16:52:01|| 2003-03-26 16:52:01|| Front Page Top

#9 Serious Consequences DO NOT equal an authorization for military force. In fact, 1441 contemplated that the UNSC would meet again to discuss whether or not the "material breaches" constituted a threat to international peace and security. Determination of such a threat is a NECESSARY prerequisite to a legal war.

By the way, it was not a cease-fire agreement. All the council authorized in the original Gulf War was the use of all necessary means to get Iraq out of Kuwait. Once that mandate was fulfilled, the use of force was no longer legal.

Iraq is in violation of UN resolutions. But the U.S. is in violation of the same resolutions. They call on member states to share all intelligence with the inspectors....that was not done. The seminal resolution (UNSC 687)contemplated Iraqi disarmament in accordance with regional disarmament, and I don't see other countries in the region stepping up to comply.

By the way, Iraq would have to continue to violate UNSC resolutions consistently for about 20 more years to even approach Israel's record. And if you take away the U.S. veto, we're up there too.

Sovereignty is not the issue. All states are supposed to be members of the international community, and bound by its rules.

I am not a Clinton supporter. Clinton was not left-wing at all on issues that matter. The only difference between Bush and Gore were social issues -- religion, abortion, etc. When it comes to economics and foreign policy, both parties are practically identical.

I don't think anyone on the left was in favour of inaction in Rwanda....though you'll recall it was Albright who prevented the U.S. from acting, just as Reagan and his cronies did with Lebanon.

With regard to your "get out of America" comment....is that the best you got? Don't like dissenting views? Then you better leave buddy. These are hallmarks of free speech.

There is nothing in my "rant" that signifies hatred for this country. You just interpret it that way because you're too afraid to seriously read history.

By the way, I'm not in your country anyway. I'm Canadian.

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 17:07:26|| 2003-03-26 17:07:26|| Front Page Top

#10 By the way, to all you right-wing human rights advocates, where were all your cries back in the 70s and 80s, when the Washington Post and the New York Times were praising Hussein as a "moderate"? Where were your voices when the government was spending tax-payers' money to supply Iraq with Chemical and Biological weapons, knowing full well what they were used for?

Compared to the Ayatollah Khomenhi he was moderate.
He was taking out the Iranians who seiged our embassy and kidnapped our people.
I have no qualms about it.
I do have a question though: How can you and all these Arabs/Muslims condemn us taking Saddam out, when he's killed millions of Arabs and Muslims without our help?

How does it feel to know that our children our being shot at with ammunition that we all paid for?

Unless you're French, Russian, German, or Chinese he's not using "our" ammunition. We stopped arming him a long time ago.
And if you're French, Russian, German or Chinese, your children aren't in danger are they?

Racism, obedience and hatred are much easier"

I certainly seems that it's easier for ignorant Bolshicrats, terrorists, and equivocators who choose to ignore the terms of the 1991 cease fire.
It's pointless to try to present actual facts to someone so brainwashed by PC, "il"literati, Socialist crap.
Like Drew, for one.

Posted by Celissa 2003-03-26 17:15:16|| [www.celissasblog.com/weblog.php] 2003-03-26 17:15:16|| Front Page Top

#11 Celissa:

Actually the U.S. continued to supply military aid to Iraq until almost one month prior to the Kuwait invasion....Check the Wall St. Journal and Wash. Post of the period.

What do you mean "moderate"...he was using gas on Kurds and in the Iran-Iraq war. Some of this gas was manufactured in NY State. By the way, relativity is not a logical rebuttal anyway. Is it ok to say "I support Mussolini, but that's ok because Hitler was worse" - no.

By the way, I think the Arabs and Kurds have every right to be angry, especially after the U.S. returned weapons to the Republican Guard, but refused weapons to rebelling Generals and Shi'ites after Gilf War I. Hussein then promptly carried out the slaughter while the U.S. watched on.

Explanation? Powell said that it was an internal manner. Thomas Freidman said that an "iron-fisted Iraqi junta" was preferable to a popular uprising, since it was more "stable" and and friendly to western commercial interests.

Once again....Not a cease fire, the mandate was fulfilled. They were UNSC Resolutions, let's call them what they are.

Brainwashed? That's a good one. Let's just remember it was you people who started the name-calling, and you people who are using the personal attacks.

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 17:28:06|| 2003-03-26 17:28:06|| Front Page Top

#12 Gotta go now...thanks for the talk.

I especially liked your leftist links section...so the NAACP is the "colored" wing of the Democratic National Congress?

You guys are just off the charts.

Posted by Drew 2003-03-26 17:31:58|| 2003-03-26 17:31:58|| Front Page Top

#13 Drew,

I think they have medication that treats delusional paranoia. Hope you get some help soon.

Posted by charlotte 2003-03-26 18:24:19|| 2003-03-26 18:24:19|| Front Page Top

#14 ..stripped and deprived of their possessions..
You mean their AK47s?

Posted by RW 2003-03-26 19:14:51|| 2003-03-26 19:14:51|| Front Page Top

#15 Oh and Drew, don't get the idea that all Canadians think like you do. I live in Toronto. You have a twisted view of the facts. And let me guess, you voted for Chretien 3 times in a row. Idiot.

Posted by RW 2003-03-26 19:22:31|| 2003-03-26 19:22:31|| Front Page Top

#16 Drew: fisko coming.

DREW[no doubt that Al-Jazeera broadcasts propaganda....all networks due during war time.]

First off, its "do", not "due". And no, nota all do that. Look at the variety of news flowing from CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc. Oh thats right, you listen to the Beeb - BBC, whose OWN REPORTERS are complaining of the bias.

DREW[diligently failing to verify any of it]

Prove it. You cannot - therefore you are LYING when you assert that as a fact. There are a lot of people verifying these things. How about the multiple launching of missles that exceed UN limitations on range? Thats enough proof even for room temperature IQ types like you.

DREW[Where are the question's about America's past relationship with Hussein?]

These are well adressed - simply look around son. It started with Jimmy Carter encouraging Iraq to distract Iran so he could try his ill advised rescue attempt. The relationsship over the past 12 years is what matters, and that most certainly is not coddling. So there another one of your points demolished.

DREW[How much democracy did they bring to countries like Nicaragua, Haiti, the Dominican Republic]

Actually all those countries are doing quite well now compared to their prior existence. So yet another one of your points drops to the buzzsaw of truth.

DREW[this is an ILLEGAL invasion. UNSC 1441 did not authorize this attack]

1441 didn't need to. But 660, 678 and 687 do. Ah you forgot about those resolutions. Remember - this, legally speaking, is a continuance of the 1991 war, whose ceasefire resolutions Iraq has violated. So smack goea another one of your biased and wrong points.

DREW[With respect to the Geneva Convention, all U.S., British, and Candian networks have been showing footage of Iraqi prisoners in restraints, sometimes even face down in the sand. Does this violate article 13? Probably.]

No - they were not exploited, nor personally identified, nor were they questioned and paraded solely for the benefit of the camera and propaganda. They were being marched to the rear and were simply filmed in passing. So say goodbye to another half-truth and innuendo from you.

And I notice you did NOT mention the summary execution of surrendered US troops, which was a flagrant violation. Go look - bullet holes and powder burns on their foreheads, shot at point blank range. Wheres you apologist half truth to try to slide that event aside? Hmm?

DREW["Enemy combatants" held in Guantanamo Bay are being mistreated to such a degree that the U.S. is in violation of no less than 15 articles of the same convention. ]

Stupid Stupid Stupid Drew. They are not "Enemy Combatants", they are very specifically "ILLEGAL Combatants", and as such have no rights under the laws of war, nor the Hague and Geneva conventions.

So another attempt at a lie-by-half-truth exposed on your part. Drew you are LYING to start with, and then building onthe lie in hopes nobody will discover that your case is built on a lie. Too bad for you that peopel here spot leftist liars like you at long range.

DREW[claim itself runs contrary to Article 4]

Wrong - and wrong interpretation of it too.

FYI here is article 4 that you cite:
...fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

The illegal combatants held at GTMO fail on b, c, and d. And they very likely fail on (a) as well since members of terrorist cells do not take responsibility for their subordinates - indeed they deny it to maintain their organizational compartmentalization. The above is very obvious to anyone that is not as self deluded as you seem to be.

DREW[I guess the message from the right is the same as it has always been....International Law does not apply to us, but it applies to everyone else....Our side reports the truth, while everyone else has ulterior motives.]

Actually you just showed a very good example of the famous (on the internet) "Recurve" technique used frequently by Scientologists and other intellectually dishonest people - take what you are doing, turn it around and direct it at the people who oppose you.

YOU are the one telling half truths as I showed above,

YOU are the one distorting things as I showed above,

YOU are the one thats making the errors of assuming you are correct and everyone else is wrong due to political orientation (as you show yourself on your web page and by your posts).

DREW[It's easy to criticize others. It takes courage to turn a critical eye towards yourself and your own country.]

Advice YOU would do well to take, in light of all the errors, omissions logical flaws and lies I've exposed in your writing. This time take in ALL the facts - stop leaving out those that contradict you.

DREW[Where were your voices when the government was spending tax-payers' money to supply Iraq with Chemical and Biological weapons, knowing full well what they were used for?]

A patent LIE - show evidence or retract it. Drew, this old saw has been completely discredited. If you'd bother to search and learn, you'd know better. Look to the French and Germans for the gear used to build those chemical weapons. As they say in criminal investigations of the Mafia - Follow The Money. You'll see it does nto lead back to the US, but to Germany, France and Russia. What A Surprise, eh?

OK - here is some advice for you:

Drew, when will you learn that people here look for the WHOLE truth and your clever little half truth and disenngenous distortions methods will get you busted every time?

If yours is an example of the shallow intellect that passes for intelligence up there in the great White North, I suggest you retreat back to the Labatts and Hockey, and leave the real thinking to those who have the rational capacity to do so, just the way the cowardly politicians of Canada leave the defense of the hemisphere and freedom to the USA.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-03-26 19:47:51|| 2003-03-26 19:47:51|| Front Page Top

#17 You aren't playing with amateurs here , Drew. Run away....run away.

Posted by tu3031 2003-03-26 22:41:41|| 2003-03-26 22:41:41|| Front Page Top

#18 Hey Drew.So far I havn't seen any American putting a bullet in an Iraqi solders forehead,then paraded in front of TV cameras.Don't know how someone could side with such a demonic regime.May someone put one in your head soon.

Posted by Brew 2003-03-26 23:02:59|| 2003-03-26 23:02:59|| Front Page Top

#19 "I'm Canadian."
Ok,now I understand.You are one of those people who called Americans"Bastards".By chance do you live in Quebec?

Posted by raptor 2003-03-27 07:02:27|| 2003-03-27 07:02:27|| Front Page Top

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