Article

2003-09-13 Europe

Mark Steyn: Anna Lindh was a victim of a "bystander" mentality

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Posted by Mike 2003-09-13 12:05:54 PM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "...and in this case are are the remains of the last member of Scandinavius Domesticus, which like the dodo, let itself be hunted into extinction..."

Posted by Pappy 2003-9-13 2:11:08 PM|| 2003-9-13 2:11:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I would disagree. The lamentable "bystander mentality" has little to do with being a welfare state or nor. I could name quite a few U.S. examples for it (including personal experiences in NY, where a man in a business suit was lying down motionless and passers by stepped over him without giving a damn (I called 911). Ok that was NY in the 70s, might be different now.
But Sweden is the wrong example. I know the country fairly well and I found the locals to be rather caring about each other. They'd still have that Scandinavian "mind your own business thing" (but isn't that very American, too?), but if help was needed it was given freely. The Swedish don't see their state as something remote, "above them", they have much stronger ties to it as being "them" than Americans. For most Americans state and government is the idea of bureaucrats spending tax dollars in far away Washington while the Swedish see the state like a "commonwealth". The state is among them, not above. Maybe that's why they refused to give Mrs Lindh her bodyguards: The state doesn't need protection from its people, it IS the people.
To compare Flight 93 with that incident simply isn't fair: The brave passengers knew what had happened. They not only knew that they were on their way to die without remedy, they knew that their plane was used to kill a lot more people. They had nothing to lose, so they decided they might just as well do something about it. Maybe the Swedish bystanders just weren't "the right stuff". But to blame it on the different concept Americans and the Swedish have when it comes to society and the state is not fair and does not apply. Bravery and resolve of individuals occur in any society. The real reason for by-stander mentality is the growing anonymity in our societies. Whether the place is Paris, Stockholm or New York doesn't matter. In close knit communities you are far less like to experience this mentality.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-13 2:22:19 PM|| 2003-9-13 2:22:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 TGA, I understand your argument, but the basic premise does hold: what does one do when one sees a serious crime happening right in front of you, and you have time to do something about it?

For the passengers of Flight 93, the decision was obvious if you have the mindset to consider the decision in the first place. Unfortunately, while the Swedish people may see their government as among them and not above them, they don't see their fellow citizen as someone worth defending. Ms. Lindh was stabbed over a time period of a couple of minutes. No one intervened, because intervention just isn't part of the national psyche there.

Whereas I think it is in America, especially now. Not just 9/11 but the various school shootings and like have convinced a large number of Americans that if we want safety, we'd better be ready to stand up and fight when necessary. You're right about certain past incidents in our history (e.g., the Kitty Genovese murder in New York), and it's shameful. We were shamed by it, and we're not inclined to let it happen anymore. We may be more anonymous in our society, but there is the recognition that we're Americans, and we're going to look after each other (witness the behavior of New Yorkers versus Torontoans in the blackout).

No disrespect to the Swedes -- there's a lot about them and their country to admire. But the article is right in its premise that the Swedes have become nanny-state babies.

Posted by Steve White 2003-9-13 3:46:15 PM|| 2003-9-13 3:46:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I agree with both Steve and TGA.

I lived in Sweden for a year and I'm quite sure the Swedes I became friends with would have no second thoughts in jumping in to help Mrs. Lindh. The problem is that NK, the very tony department store in Stockholm (think Harrod's), is not likely to have very many studly Vikings hanging around. Most (all?) the witnesses were women and the killer was a big man. He was pursued but lost his pursuers by running out into the heavy foot traffic of the central city. It happens.

However, Steve is right that socialism does breed and encourage by law a certain passivity. Steyn's piece reminds me of a piece written in The New Republic a decade ago of a Czech ex-pat who returned from NYC after Communism fell and ended up stabbing a neo-Nazi skinhead in self defense after being set upon by the gang. The man found himself in a legal nightmare (Kafkaesque?) for doing what most Americans would've gotten an "attaboy" from the cops for doing. See also the Brit farmer who killed an intruder then got prison for it.

Ironically, in the US, courts have thrown out "malpractice" lawsuits against the cops because the cops are NOT legally bound to save you. Lesson: You're on your own so do what you gotta do and let the chips fall where they may. Now stay safe out there!

Posted by JDB 2003-9-13 4:19:34 PM|| 2003-9-13 4:19:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 There is a lot to blame on socialism (and I'm the first to jump in there) but I don't think that the Lindh case qualifies (btw Sweden has already done away with many of its welfare excesses). But in communist Eastern Europe people helped each other much more than in the "cold" capitalist states.

I'm also rather convinced that if a blackout strikes Stockholm or Berlin, things wouldn't be that much different.

It's the anonymity that makes people not care.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-9-13 5:31:23 PM|| 2003-9-13 5:31:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Some commentators here in Finland have wondered about the bystanders' reactions too.From what I know,I wouldn't be so confident as to pass judgment.One eyewitness said she didn't realize what was going on until Lindh had fallen to the ground and she saw the blood.I don't think one should jump to conclusions based on one incident.

Posted by El Id 2003-9-13 7:35:25 PM|| 2003-9-13 7:35:25 PM|| Front Page Top

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