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Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-17 12:51:53 PM||
2004-1-17 12:51:53 PM||
#8 Hey Aris...here's a way for you to understand..imagine that suicide bomber in that picture killed your child...how would you like looking at her picture floating on a depiction of your childs blood...and the 'artist' calling her "snow white".
Would you consider that a glorification of terrorism that killed YOUR child?
Posted by TS 2004-1-17 1:21:14 PM||
2004-1-17 1:21:14 PM||
#9 Mazel, when you get over to the Foreign Office just tell them the display was humiliating and that your feelings were crushed. They understand that kind of explanation.
Posted by Gasse Katze 2004-1-17 1:38:53 PM||
2004-1-17 1:38:53 PM||
#10 Dammit Aris! Yawl invented logic... did you export it all? Being a jew hater has nothing to do with religon, matter of fact some kikes are quite good at it.
You keep this up and no Tarpon Springs for you.
Posted by Shipman 2004-1-17 2:56:58 PM||
2004-1-17 2:56:58 PM||
#11 Nevermind... just peeked at the art. Sorry Aris I was wrong.... just piss poor art.
Posted by Shipman 2004-1-17 4:59:48 PM||
2004-1-17 4:59:48 PM||
#12 Excuse me, I may have missed something, but in what way does the depiction of a suicide bomber as swimming in a lake of blood make a work "anti-semetic"?
First off, the picture wasn't swimming. It was in a virgin white boat. Second, you need a brain. A paleostinian suicide bomber who killed 21 people + depiction of said suicide bomber floating in a virgin white boat(White tends to be the color for innocence and purity.) + lake of blood + consideration for who suicide bomber killed = FREAGIN ANTI-SEMITISM!
I would give you a degree in learning this obvious fact, but I don't want too bother taking your head out of your ass. My hands could get dirty.
#13 Hmmm well I tried to look at that picture ignoring all the comments and i think things are not that clear. You could very well come to the interpretation, that the installation shows a superb hypocritic arrogance of Paleo suicide bombers who maintain an aura of "snow white and pure innocent martyrdom" while they are actually floating on streams of (Jewish) blood. I find it at least doubtful whether this is a glorification of the Palestinian "cause".
But maybe I'm too optimistic here. Probably I am.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-17 7:22:04 PM||
2004-1-17 7:22:04 PM||
#14 Excuse me, I may have missed something, but in what way does the depiction of a suicide bomber as swimming in a lake of blood make a work "anti-semetic"?
Think about it for a second - who are the intended targets of PALESTINIAN suicide/murder bombers?
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-1-17 7:49:53 PM||
2004-1-17 7:49:53 PM||
#15 Reading about the artists, and looking at the photo, it seems VERY clear to me that the artists were using "dramatic irony" (for you guys with saliva dripping from your fangs, go look it up in a dictionary). But - as with the Israeli Ambassador and some people here, irony went over many people's heads. And - that is the risk with an artist using the technique of employing irony - or allegory, or any other technique that requires analytical skill, and good background knowledge.
I wonder what happens when people like the critics in this case read something like George Orwell's "Animal Farm" -
Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself
Do the maybe say "Gee, a story about talking pigs..."
Personally, I hope that all "martyred" terrorists are boiling in "72 Virgin" brand pork fat somewhere - for eternity. That concept might make an interesting art piece .......
Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-1-17 8:43:34 PM||
2004-1-17 8:43:34 PM||
#16 Aris, I guess showing a symbolic halo around the angelic smiling face of the most vile disgusting sub-human trash on this Earth is art to you... but to me it's an effront to humanity. This woman was EVIL, she killed innocents including children by blowing them into little pieces. What part about how a piece of art glorifying her being upsetting to an Israeli is hard for you to understand? Another quote from the article about your unanti-semetic Europe...
"Israel Radio reported that the genocide exhibit included 20 pieces of art from artists around the world. Three works were selected from Israel, all of which presented the conflict from a Palestinian point-of-view, while a pro-Israel piece of art was excluded following diplomatic pressure from Syria. "
#17 According to Debka, (presumably well informed here) the perp is an ex Israeli Swedish citizen- that is he has rejected his citizenship. He is a member of "Jews for Palestinian Peace", so his sympathies are obvious.
And to invoke "dramatic irony" in a subject like this... words fail me.
Posted by Grunter 2004-1-17 11:20:59 PM||
2004-1-17 11:20:59 PM||
#18 this was agit prop--art would be the map of arabia floating in a pool of shit
Posted by SON OF TOLUI 2004-1-17 11:34:37 PM||
2004-1-17 11:34:37 PM||
#19 Wow, just look at all those uninformed comments from people who clearly haven't seen the work of art in question! Do you get all your information fron israeli right-wing media and FOX news?
#16 Damn proud american: there is no "symbolic halo" around her face. The artwork does NOT glorify her, on the contrary, it quite clearly states that she "murdered innocent people". And as for believing what israeli radio says...
#17 Grunter: "perp"? is he a criminal because of his membership in a pro-peace organization?
An interesting fact: a couple of years ago, another installation at the same museum was trashed. By neo-nazis. Apparently, the only ones capable of distinguishing "art" from" "non-art" (and having the god-given right to destroy what doesn't please them) are sionists and nazis.
Posted by f-ing euro 2004-1-19 6:46:07 AM||
2004-1-19 6:46:07 AM||
#20 The ambassador is a criminal. What he did is nothing different from nazis burning jewish books in the 30s. It is the minds of these uncivilized barbarians and their fundametalist hatred that increases the crizis in the middle east. Suicide bombing is a response to the occupation and oppresion of the palestinian people. They are no more terrorists than the apache helicopter pilots who shoot civilians. Peace will be made when there is a respect for the human rights of the palestinian people and the israeli people alike.
Posted by Anonymous 2004-1-19 7:23:57 AM||
2004-1-19 7:23:57 AM||
#21 Oh, and by the way, the israeli army radio declared that "a pro-Israel piece of art was excluded following diplomatic pressure from Syria", but that is a blatant lie. Neither the curator, nor the museum director has heard about any such event taking place. It is probably derived from an earlier incident in which a row in another museum resulted in an entire exhibition being cancelled. The works of the israeli artist in question, Amit Goren, will however be shown in the museum of history, i.e. the same museum trashed by the "diplomat", and earlier by the nazis.
The curator of the exhibition has been threatened and assaulted, and is now under constant surveillance of the secret police, as is mr Feiler. Who, by the way, is the chairman of "Jews for Israeli Palestinian Peace".
israel - brings a new meaning to the word "diplomatic".
Posted by f-ing euro 2004-1-19 7:28:41 AM||
2004-1-19 7:28:41 AM||
#22 Probably we'll never be capable to understand what the driving force in this never ending conflict will be. But clearer and clearer we see that Israel has arrived where it belonged since his foundation. In the row of the other normal states, that have blood on their hands. The picture of Israel as a peacefull state that only tries to stay alive has already faded away. Israel kills too and should admit this. Stop that sanctimonios wheening now.
#23 No one is willing to say honestly that what the Palestinians seek, an have been attempting these past three years, is the genocide of Israeli Jews. To quibble over whether an object is "art" is totally beside the point. And to be concerned whether a seasoned Israeli diplomat's emotional response was "proper" or not only demonstrates how little governments and individuals care that genocide is happening with the world's unspoken consent. Anyone who enjoys slurring Israelis as similar in any way to Nazis themselves hates Jews and might have become a Nazi given the opportunity. Zvi Mazer is an honest man, refusing to stand idly by at the celebration of genocide.
Posted by rt 2004-1-19 10:14:34 AM||
2004-1-19 10:14:34 AM||
#24 RT: You are way out of line! Terrorist acts performed by palestinians are outweighed by the israeli's terrorism against civilian palestinians. Both sides are controlled by religious fanatics who benefit from the blood spilt by ordinary people. It is a circle of blood, that continues because Israel has no regard for human rights. So they keep oppressing the palestinian people, and thereby breeding suicide killers and religious fanatics. Take away the oppresion, and you take away the cause!
I have been an active anti fascist all my life. I have had five bones broken fighting nazis on the streets, I have defended both moslems and jews against assaults by skin heads, even though I beleive that religion is a dangerous poison. I have been threatened with guns and I have been stabbed. I fucking dare you to say I would have been a nazi in another time.
Zvi Mazer is not an honest man, he is afraid of a europe that is not supporting the atrocities by his country on civilians. So he shouts, just as you do, that anyone who does not agree is an antisemite. Only an idiot uses that kind of kindergarten rethorics.
Posted by Taffy 2004-1-19 12:27:48 PM||
2004-1-19 12:27:48 PM||
#25 Hi, my name is Sven and I'm from Stockholm. First I would like to write that I'm sorry that Israel has been so offended by this piece of art.
But I guess for me and many moore that have seen this art in real life can say that it dont glorify terror against Israel. For me I feel sadness to look at it. And my sympathy goes to the victims. You are allowed to hate "Snowhite".
And dou you know that the artist is born in Israel, he have made Israel military service and he is a member of israelian/palestinian peace movment.
And to this art that your ambassador dont like there is also a storytext that must be read to understand the art:
"Once upon a time in the middle of winter
For the June 12 deaths of her brother, and her cousin
and three drops of blood fell
She was also a woman
as white as snow, as red as blood, and her hair was as black as ebony
Seemingly innocent with universal non-violent character, less suspicious of intentions
and the red looked beautiful upon the white
The murderer will yet pay the price and we will not be the only ones who are crying
like a weed in her heart until she had no peace day and night
Hanadi Jaradat was a 29-year-old lawyer
I will run away into the wild forest, and never come home again
Before the engagement took place, he was killed in an encounter with the Israeli security forces
and she ran over sharp stones and through thorns
She said: Your blood will not have been shed in vain
and was about to pierce Snow White's innocent heart
She was hospitalized, prostrate with grief, after witnessing the shootings
The wild beasts will soon have devoured you
After his death, she became the breadwinner and she devoted herself solely to that goal
"Yes", said Snow White, "with all my heart"
Weeping bitterly, she added: "If our nation cannot realize its dream and the goals of the victims, and live in freedom and dignity, then let the whole world be erased"
Run away, then, you poor child
She secretly crossed into Israel, charged into a Haifa restaurant, shot a security guard, blew herself up and murdered 19 innocent civilians
as white as snow, as red as blood, and her hair was as black as ebony
And many people are indeed crying: the Zer Aviv family, the Almog family, and all the relatives and friends of the dead and the wounded
and the red looked beautiful upon the white"
And however your are never allowed to attack any art. I really hope for peace in your area someday soon. Making difference
Many honest kiss and hugs to all humans reading this!
#26 How many of you people out there are actually aware of the fact that there's a text accompanying the piece? This whole issue has been blown out of proportions because Mazel probably just didn't bother to read it before condemning the work as "glorifying" suicide-bombers (the text specifically mentions the murdering of "innocent civilians"). The Israeli government eagerly adapted their ambassador's seemingly prejudiced view and is using it as evidence for the "growing wave of anti-Semitism", to use the prime minister's own words. There's little mention in Isreali media about the exhibition being interpreted in a different way than Mazel's, and there's not a word about the text - which is after all essential for the understanding of the whole work. The ambassador's act just serves to show how violence gives birth to more violence in an endless chain reaction. And those of you who obviously don't know more about the exhibition than what you've heard from the media should shut up. Damn_Proud_American who are you to talk about the "f-ing euros" and shaking their antisemitic past. Here is the full text accompanying the work.
Posted by ar 2004-1-19 2:00:13 PM||
2004-1-19 2:00:13 PM||
#31 Open your eyes. Mr. Mazel made a fool of himself by vandalizing an exhibition which he (deliberately?) misinterpreted.
Posted by Sn 2004-1-19 6:24:42 PM||
2004-1-19 6:24:42 PM||
#32 Evethough Mr. Mazel's actions were inappropriate for a diplomat, I can understant his actions.
Art is a form of free expression, and so is the ambassador's reaction.
Posted by Jesus 2004-1-19 8:56:03 PM||
2004-1-19 8:56:03 PM||
#33 1st, Sweden should say "we are sorry because we let that idiot that calles himself an artist to put its provocating pseudowork out", and then it can be discussed if Mazel's act was right or not
Posted by Anonymous 2004-1-20 2:23:49 AM||
2004-1-20 2:23:49 AM||
#34 So if you are offended by the painting Mona Lisa it gives you the right to break it?
Posted by SH 2004-1-20 2:24:13 AM||
2004-1-20 2:24:13 AM||
#35 -> #23 HOW is this a "celebration of genocide"? How can anyone possibly interpret this as anything even remotely pro-terrorist? And as for "genocide", come on! It is not the palestinians who are ethnically cleansing israel, building walls and shooting international aid workers. The palestinians does not have weapons of mass destruction. They do not bomb refugee camps or ghettoize entire communities. Saying that palestinians are trying to eradicate the jewish "race" is like accusing Nelson Mandela and ANC of being prejudiced towards the white minority in 80's south africa.
-> #32 Yes, his actions would have been understandable if he acted as an outraged individual. However, mr Mazel has now admitted that he had planned this act even before going to the exhibition (therefore, the question of whether he had understood the art is irrelevant, he decided what to do even before setting foot in the museum). As an ambassador, and experienced diplomat, he knew exactly what he was doing. No diplomat would plan to wreck an art exhibit, unless it was pre-sanctioned from his government. Which it was. This takes his actions from being an impulse act to being the official stance of Israel, that Israel has the right to do exactly what they want anywhere in the world. As a Swede, I find this sickening. Mr Mazel has made a fool of himself on several occasions, accusing anyone from the recently murdered foreign minister Anna Lindh to the arch bishop of being anti-semites (solely because they question Israels right to murder indiscriminately).
-> #33 Why should Sweden apologize? It is not the Swedish government that chooses the artworks for the exhibitions, or decides what is art and what is not. It would be a giant step towards a totalitarian state if we let the government do that.
Posted by f-ing euro 2004-1-20 5:29:38 AM||
2004-1-20 5:29:38 AM||
#36 If the artwork is anti-Semitic, what is the opposite artwork? See image
Posted by Anti-aggressor 2004-1-21 1:48:53 AM||
2004-1-21 1:48:53 AM||