Article

2004-04-07 Great White North

The Underground Railroad For Deserters...

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Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-04-07 12:35:33 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "...take back and pardon those who had fled their country for having followed their conscience."

"Conscience," my ass. These people volunteered to serve in our armed forces, and their slinking away to Canada is motivated by nothing more noble than simple cowardice.

They'll make great Canadians, and they can damn well stay there.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-04-07 8:02:27 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:02:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Now we have second reason to shut down the border: First to keep the Islamo-facists out. Second to keep those who are unwilling to fullfill thier moral obligations in.

Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-04-07 8:07:04 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:07:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 this stuff is as bad as the stuff they write in NK. What did they do- roust out some old grey-haired pony hippie from his cabin in Big Sur where he has been without communications since 1975?

Maybe they just can't find any young people interested in in writing this stuff and have to dig up the ones hoping to justify and relive their youth.

I rate this sad and pathetic.

Posted by B 2004-04-07 8:13:37 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:13:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Sniff sniff..........You have them in every war.

Posted by Bill Nelson 2004-04-07 8:19:42 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:19:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 this stuff is as bad as the stuff they write in NK.
This is just one example of this German's anti-American hit pieces. Google "John Horvath" for more of the neo Lord HawHaw's propaganda.

Posted by GK 2004-04-07 8:22:44 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:22:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 relax guys -I doubt there there are that many deserters - at least not many more than usual. Most guys today are itching to see some action. This is just propaganda - and I said above, sad and pathetic propaganda at that. Don't fall for it.

Posted by B 2004-04-07 8:23:30 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:23:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 thanks GK...your insight wasn't available before I made my second post. He's not very good at it, is he?

Posted by B 2004-04-07 8:25:31 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:25:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 sorry to ramble on...but this is all so out of touch. I mean today we just think...let 'em go. Adios amigos. We're happy to rid you from our gene pool and we certainly don't want you polluting our fine military. Go...be gone. Spend the rest of your life justifying your cowardice .. it's your loss, not ours.

The peace and love generation got old and not-sexy and seem today to be little more than spineless no-loads afraid of their own shadows... probably from smoking too much pot and causing a permanent loss to their grip on reality.

You know times change - and these people are stuck in their own little world of flowers in their hair and bad poetry. The truth of the matter is that they never really were cool..they were just "in" during for a brief moment in history. Time marches on and these guys have been left so very way behind that the best we can do for them is pat them on the head and nod politely.

Posted by B 2004-04-07 8:50:26 AM|| 2004-04-07 8:50:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Americans rarely travel outside their own country

When will Europeans grasp just how fricking BIG this country is? I mean, Christ, there's really no reason to travel outside of the US for most Americans.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-07 8:57:23 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-07 8:57:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Danny Deever! Danny Deever!

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2004-04-07 9:04:13 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2004-04-07 9:04:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 This is a propaganda piece. I don't know of any deserters hopping to Canada. I would've heard about it if it were a problem. Desertion where I'm from is not even a thought. This author is obviously full of sh*t or drank one too many molsons.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-04-07 9:08:01 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:08:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 This is the old "make Iraq into Vietnam" ploy again by the lefties. Problem was Vietnam was a conscript army wiht an arguably unfair draft. This fight isnt - its all volunteer, and the nation has been attacked.

They VOLUNTARILY took a solemn oath to "Uphold and defend..." and "Obey the officers appointed..."

These are just cowards. Oathbreakers.

Desertion during war. Should be shot.

If we ever get a president who gives blanket amnesty to anyone deserting like this, that president deserves to be impeached for violating his oath.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-07 9:26:28 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:26:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 There's another way to get the government to help pay for your education: student loans. There are other means, too, like scholarships, grants, and--*gasp*--working! Expecting the military to pay for it without meeting the obligations you voluntarily accepted and swore to satisfy ain't the way.

Posted by Dar 2004-04-07 9:30:35 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:30:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 This is the old "make Iraq into Vietnam" ploy again by the lefties. Problem was Vietnam was a conscript army wiht an arguably unfair draft.

Makes you wonder why most of the calls to reinstate the draft come from the left, doesn't it?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-07 9:32:22 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-07 9:32:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Like, how many, dooooood? 1, 10, 100? Let's have some statistics.
Or is this your smug little primer for the coming deluge?

Posted by tu3031 2004-04-07 9:38:21 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:38:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 tu3031, exactly, good point - this guy has to back up the story w/true facts or stfu.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-04-07 9:56:04 AM|| 2004-04-07 9:56:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 So, we should understand them because they tried to scam the Armed Forces of money and scholarship while not fulfilling their part of the contract? While we are at it why don't admire a guy who enlists as a fireman and then doesn't try to rescue the people trapped in a burning house? What of a cop who runs when there is a bank robbery? Of a lifesaver who won't go into water if it is under 20 C degrees? All of them admirable people to be set as examples.

Posted by JFM 2004-04-07 10:02:38 AM|| 2004-04-07 10:02:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Funny you should mention fried beaver tails.

The man who started Hooker's Beaver Tails went to Canada in the '60s. Yes, he was an American draft dodger. I know this 'cause I once worked with his daughter.

Posted by growler 2004-04-07 10:30:01 AM|| 2004-04-07 10:30:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 WOW! You mean the Military is designed to fight? I glad I retired after 20 years and never knew that. Next youâll tell me that fire burns, ice is cold, and water is wet. Scammers! IHO I would not want them back into my unit. The last thing I want when I go into battle is someone who doesnât know what the military does. I would discharge them (OTH) and make them pay restitution for whatever benefits they received in the military (Medical, Dental, education).

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-04-07 10:46:03 AM|| 2004-04-07 10:46:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Too young to buy a beer, but old enough to die for their country.

This line always cracks me up. Nobody ever tells these guys that an active-duty service member can go into a base club and order a beer, regardless of their age.

Posted by BH 2004-04-07 10:50:46 AM|| 2004-04-07 10:50:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 I've got a nephew that works for Air Force Recruiting Service in San Antonio. I asked him if there was a real problem with Air Force people deserting or going AWOL since Operation Iraqi Freedom. From what he can find out, there appear to be about twelve Air Force people who have deserted - gone AWOL for more than 30 days - in the last 18 months. According to his findings, those numbers are "about average", and that of those dozen people, "one will have died, and another hospitalized for drug, alcohol, or other related problems". It's not a scientific survey, but it does indicate there isn't a big problem. Tom says there hasn't been any significant change in recruiting goals, no changes in screening, or other changes that would indicate the need to address a problem such as mass AWOLs or desertions.

My daughter's a senior in high school this year. Many of her classmates are gearing up to enter the military once they graduate in May. None of them are talking abut NOT fighting, so I guess that's a non-issue to them. Half or more want to join the Marines, the rest are divided among the other three services. Quite a few have already joined through delayed enlistment programs.

I think this article is more an expression of wishful thinking than actually trying to report facts, and is pretty shoddy even at that.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-04-07 3:00:49 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-04-07 3:00:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Yeah, had one guy in my unit in Germany desert on us. He went home on leave, found his girlfriend shacked up, fell apart and went home to his folks. Problem was his folks were living in British Columbia, Canada. Call us up and told us he wasn't coming back. Few months later he crossed the border and gave himself up. He was judged "unfit for service" and discharged. Funny thing, while waiting for paperwork to go through, they had him working at the AF JAG office. They were sorry to see him go, said he was a good worker. You just never know.

Posted by Steve 2004-04-07 4:16:05 PM|| 2004-04-07 4:16:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Most desertions I can speak of - only a handful - were guys who were shitbags anyhow and not missed when they left - had prior njp's and other discplinary problems.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-04-07 4:36:03 PM|| 2004-04-07 4:36:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that early in the 90s, we signed an agreement w/Canada that they wouldn't take in deserters.

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-04-07 5:06:58 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:06:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Anon2U:

Essentially, we can extradite people for something that is also a crime under their laws. Since Canada didn't have a draft in the late 60s, draft-dodging wasn't a crime, so they wouldn't extradite. Since they do have laws against desertion, they would extradite, if we wanted them back.

Posted by Jackal 2004-04-07 6:37:49 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2004-04-07 6:37:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Does Canada have any laws about pissing in the gene pool?

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-07 7:57:06 PM|| 2004-04-07 7:57:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Is there nothing in life that can't be found in monty python
Colonel Come in, what do you want?
Private Watkins enters and salutes.
Watkins I'd like to leave the army please, sir.
Colonel Good heavens man, why?
Watkins It's dangerous.
Colonel What?
Watkins There are people with guns out there, sir.
Colonel What?
Watkins Real guns, sir. Not toy ones, sir. Proper ones, sir. They've all got 'em. All of 'em, sir. And some of 'em have got tanks.
Colonel Watkins, they are on our side.
Watkins And grenades, sir. And machine guns, sir. So I'd like to leave, sir, before I get killed, please.
Colonel Watkins, you've only been in the army a day.
Watkins I know sir but people get killed, properly dead, sir, no barley cross fingers, sir. A bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and there's a war you have to go and fight.
Colonel That's true.
Watkins Well I mean, blimey, I mean if it was a big war somebody could be hurt.
Colonel Watkins why did you join the army?
Watkins For the water-skiing and for the travel, sir. And not for the killing, sir. I asked them to put it on my form, sir - no killing.
Colonel Watkins are you a pacifist?
Watkins No sir, I'm not a pacifist, sir. I'm a coward.

Posted by bruce 2004-04-07 9:12:31 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:12:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Two quick thoughts: 1. More Canadians came south to serve with US forces in VietNam than American scum ran north to avoid service. (A convention of Canadian VietNam vets will give you a hangover almost beyond imagining). 2. The US is unlikely to elect another president as pathetic as Jimmy Carter so any scum now fleeing north are unlikely to be pardoned in the lifetime of anyone now living. I, for one, have never forgiven those sanctimonius, slimy, pusillanimus pricks that deserted their country in time of war or Jimmy Carter who welcomed them back.. Someone else had to stand in harms way in place of everyone of those "men" who went to Canada/

Posted by RWV 2004-04-07 11:44:18 PM|| 2004-04-07 11:44:18 PM|| Front Page Top

19:40 cingold
13:20 Dcreeper
12:47 Dcreeper
00:22 ex-lib
21:53 FED UP
15:01 Dcreeper
14:04 ex-lib
12:55 Dcreeper
10:08 ex-lib
07:09 Shipman
02:31 Dcreeper
01:53 .com
01:30 Super Hose
01:18 Super Hose
01:11 Mark Espinola
00:50 Zenster
00:45 ex-lib
00:37 Anonymous2U
00:11 ZoGg
23:59 GK
23:50 Phil Fraering
23:44 RWV
23:18 Not Mike Moore
23:15 Super Hose