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2004-09-09 Home Front: Politix
Global public prefers Kerry over Bush
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Posted by Murat 2004-09-09 7:39:55 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 This was covered yesterday. Don't you use your eyes, Murat? (OK, 'stupid question'.)
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-09 7:52:15 AM||   2004-09-09 7:52:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 "Global Public Prefers Kerry Over Bush"

In a world gone insane, that's an excellent reason to vote for Bush.
Posted by Bryan 2004-09-09 7:58:38 AM||   2004-09-09 7:58:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Well, the world's gonna get 4 more EXCELLENT years of George W. Bush--No, no, don't thank us!, you ungrateful and unwashed morons!
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-09-09 8:14:52 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-09-09 8:14:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 That's good. Just another reason to vote for W! He's doing something right especially if he has the French snail eaters pissed.
Posted by Bill Nelson  2004-09-09 8:34:13 AM||   2004-09-09 8:34:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Yeh. If the rest of the world is so high on Kerry, why don't they make him the next UN Secretary General? As much as I dislike him, he wouldn't be half as corrupt and inept as the last few Secretaries General.
Posted by Mitch H.  2004-09-09 8:52:09 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]  2004-09-09 8:52:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Too bad your vote doesn't count, Bacon Boy.
Posted by Dar  2004-09-09 9:11:01 AM||   2004-09-09 9:11:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 This is actually old news. Back in April or May, I remember reading in the IHT letters from the LLL expat community that every citizen in the world should be given the right to vote in American elections since our politics affects everyone in the world.

The same mentality of sorts is what is driving the LLL to lobby for abolishing the electoral college. The left coast and NE elitist establishments just cannot let go of the fact that the blue states are outnumbered, outmanned and outvoted by the great heartland of America.
Posted by Jack is Back  2004-09-09 9:17:53 AM||   2004-09-09 9:17:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Hey Murat - they only reason the lamestream media is printing headlines about "global polls" is because if they don't want to report on what the real polls say; Kerry is getting hammered!
Posted by B 2004-09-09 9:24:02 AM||   2004-09-09 9:24:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Bryan: In a world gone insane, that's an excellent reason to vote for Bush.

Nothing insane about it. The Euros think they can screw us over while dealing behind our back with our enemies because they have a treaty with us that pledges American assistance if they ever get into trouble. Ditto with large numbers of countries around the world. Note that most of the countries that showed up Iraq alongside our boys don't have mutual defense treaties with Uncle Sam. This means their territorial sovereignty against their neighbors rests on our goodwill rather than a treaty. That, in my mind, is a good reason to tear up most of the mutual defense treaties we have with countries around the world. There's nothing mutual about these treaties, and they increase the scope for double-dealing. Would Euros be quite as enthused about arming China if Uncle Sam did not extend a nuclear umbrella over Europe?
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-09 9:49:36 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-09 9:49:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 That, in my mind, is a good reason to tear up most of the mutual defense treaties we have with countries around the world.

Mutual defense treaties were an "egg in the basket" vehicle used by the former Soviets and the West to tally the "us against thems" allowing the lesser nations to chant "our brother is bigger than your brother". Of course, as with most "bigger brothers" we hung with others our own age while telling the little pain in the ass to be quiet and go away.
Posted by RN  2004-09-09 10:00:21 AM||   2004-09-09 10:00:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 ro'Murat, do you see?
Posted by Steve from Relto 2004-09-09 10:34:03 AM||   2004-09-09 10:34:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Well the funniest part of the poll is that even those Britons are anti-Bush. (Bulldog, Howard you've become a minority :)
Posted by Murat 2004-09-09 10:38:38 AM||   2004-09-09 10:38:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 No, what's funniest is idiots who think this matters.

Like you, Murat.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-09 10:47:06 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-09-09 10:47:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Didn't presume we ever were a majority, Ratty. Our media bends over backwards to slur Bush, so don't be surprised when most folks absorb a negative view of the man. And don't forget that even in the US Bush support has only recently significantly tipped 50 % since the start of the race. That still doesn't mean huge numbers of people seriously argue with his approach to the WoT.
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-09 10:48:09 AM||   2004-09-09 10:48:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Murat: Well the funniest part of the poll is that even those Britons are anti-Bush. (Bulldog, Howard you've become a minority :)

What's truly funny is Turks and Muslims who hate Bush and America, but don't have the guts to come attack us, despite Muhammad's promises of 72 virgins in the afterlife. Where are the hordes of angry jihadis? Like I've always maintained, Osama had it precisely inverted - he said that Muslims love death as Americans love life, whereas the reality is that Americans love death as Muslims love life.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-09 10:53:49 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-09 10:53:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Joe Public from Jakarta is cordially invited to butt out.
Posted by mojo  2004-09-09 10:56:55 AM||   2004-09-09 10:56:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 A better metric would be a survey of which President is preferred by Vietnamese refugees. (Bush, by something like 10:1).
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-09 11:05:34 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-09 11:05:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Global public prefers Kerry over Bush

Just as nobody in the U.S. should have any say in whoever is running the show in Turkey, why should we give a rat's ass who the "global public" prefers to be our president?
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-09 11:18:38 AM||   2004-09-09 11:18:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Global public,
Come and talk to us when you have fair and honest elections in your own contries. See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.
Posted by ed 2004-09-09 11:37:00 AM||   2004-09-09 11:37:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 It's difficult to imagine how HUGELY different the world might be today had the international coverage of the Iraq invasion not been absolutely poisonous regarding Bush and the US. Their words and beliefs altered the course forever-the number of deaths that occurred because the US was forced to change its battle plans and because allies abandoned us when we needed them; the geographical containment of jihadism opened wide with international excuse-making and tolerance for terrorists while the West is pillaried for violence in the world....the list goes on. The judgment of the world is sorely in question.
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-09 12:03:00 PM||   2004-09-09 12:03:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 this poll in flaw! they are leave out nader! >:(
Posted by muck4doo 2004-09-09 12:31:56 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]  2004-09-09 12:31:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 jules 187: :” It's difficult to imagine how HUGELY different the world might be today had the international coverage of the Iraq invasion not been absolutely poisonous regarding Bush and the US.”

Absolutely right. After 911 one of my main questions was why so little international support. There is no one answer. A few generalizations apply to most countries but each country has a unique history and internal politics.

Many countries don’t trust the US. While US has been a “nice” world power, there is sufficient evidence of not so nice behavior to fuel criticism of the US. It is far easier for a US citizen to trust our president to wield the vast power of the US than it is for a European.

The US is by far the world’s strongest power. Some countries are jealous of US success. (Other countries don’t like the US winning most of the Olympic medals.)

Globalization is disrupting economies and cultures throughout the world. In the US we see it as more immigrants, cheap goods from China, Japanese anime, outsourcing of jobs to India, and Islamic terrorism. Much of world sees it as US cultural and economic imperialism. (The insidious spread of Mc Donalds.)

Most countries believe the playing field isn’t even. Many countries have trade disputes with the US. Rightly or wrongly, those countries often feel the US has an overwhelming advantage in negotiations. This fuels national resentment.

Non-English speaking countries feel a cultural disadvantage. Whether French, Spanish, German, etc. many resent the dominance of English.

Some countries are failing in the world marketplace. Blame is placed on US capitalistic business policies.

Some worry about the world environment. Or about world poverty. As the wealthiest country in the world, the US receives the most blame.

Some countries believe the US is an enemy working against their interests. Clearly this is true of N. Korea and Iran. To a lesser degree it is true of China. Many in Russia still see the US as an enemy. Many Islamic countries see the US as an enemy.

Some use anti-Americanism to promote their own agenda. By positioning Europe as a counter to the US, the European elite submerges nationalism and promotes identification with the EU.

Some believe that the time of nations is over. That the UN and international organizations should be running the world. They see the US as the greatest threat to the new world order.

And here in the US we have internal politics and a wild mix of loud, divergent views.

The WoT would be much, much easier with a united Western civilization supporting the US.
Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-09-09 1:13:27 PM||   2004-09-09 1:13:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Gee, Anon5032, Samuel Huntingdon must stay awake nights knowing you're at large...!
You put out a lot of crap about the US without talking about all the good we do, all the work we do, or all we've done for our less fortunate fellow citizens of the planet.
This whole concept of nations having "feelings" like jealousy or hatred for each other is CRAZY...
This completely non-scientific poll was of 35,000 folks in assorted nations with none of the criteria used delineated at all.
(And what could these furrenners know about sKeery?!
We're still trying to figure out who the guy is!)
I have no doubt this crappy poll was *designed* to make us here in the US feel bad about our support for Bush.
Well, tough tits!
I'm not only voting for him, I LOVE HIM and think he's one of the greatest Presidents this country's ever had who has earned and deserves 2 terms.
So they can kiss my royal Italian-American ass and pray that God blesses their jumped-up country with a leader as terrific as GWB!
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-09-09 1:38:34 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-09-09 1:38:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Jen - it wasn't as much about making us feel bad about our support for Bush, it was to make a headline about Kerry being ahead in the polls. Since sKerry is lagging so far behind that spinning is futile, they just created a poll that would give them the headline they wanted.
Posted by B 2004-09-09 2:09:56 PM||   2004-09-09 2:09:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Diggs on why this is a good thing:

Pennies From Heaven
According to a poll conducted by GlobeScan Inc, a global research firm, and the University of Maryland. a majority of foreigners want Senator Kerry elected over President Bush.
The news just can't get any worse for John Kerry can it?
So the people of the world, who think that the US got what it deserved on 9-11, and who are afraid of the US and want to see US power reduced, if not completely neutralized, think that Senator Kerry is their man to get that job done. There is no other way to look at this. These folks aren't looking to the US for protection from terrorists, they simply want the US to be humbled. And no other candidate gives them that feeling of being able to deliver a humbled America better than John Kerry.
It's like Karl Rove is writing these stories!
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-09 2:30:49 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-09 2:30:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 A few generalizations apply to most countries but each country has a unique history and internal politics.

[...]

The WoT would be much, much easier with a united Western civilization supporting the US.

After having recited a litany of reasons for various other nations' hostility/resentment toward the U.S. (a lot of it seemingly rather petty), I find it rather strange that you would even entertain the idea of a "united Western civilization".
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-09 2:44:33 PM||   2004-09-09 2:44:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Good points Anan5032 (#22), and Zhang Fei (#25): thanks for providing a short overview of how "the other side" views America. And we do have the media to thank for fueling the lie machine, don't we?

BTW: polls generally cannot be trusted to provide reliable information. And Murat cannot be trusted to provide anything but his usual anti-American nonsense.
Posted by ex-lib 2004-09-09 2:50:15 PM||   2004-09-09 2:50:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 GreatestJeneration: “You put out a lot of crap about the US without talking about all the good we do, all the work we do, or all we've done for our less fortunate fellow citizens of the planet.”

I strongly believe the US is a positive force in the world. My post wasn’t about whether America is great. I take that as a given.

I want the US to be successful. One requirement for winning the WoT is understanding who our allies are and who our enemies are and why. Understanding foreign nations does not mean subordinating US interests to foreign nations.

If you understand France, you’ll understand that there is little hope of getting French cooperation. If you understand why many countries are anti-American, you’ll understand why working through the UN or international organizations to protect US interests will have little success. If you understand the transnationalist movement, you’ll understand why many in academia and the media are working against US interests.

Knowledge of the enemy is power to defeat the enemy.

Bomb-a-rama: “After having recited a litany of reasons for various other nations' hostility/resentment toward the U.S. (a lot of it seemingly rather petty), …”

Yes, many of the reasons are petty. And some of the reasons indicate that some “allies” aren’t allies and never were. And some nations are enemies and we should recognize that fact. And we should also recognize that some Americans view patriotism as outdated and have a greater loyalty to transnational relationships.

So what are we left with.

Some countries are allies. Despite strong international and internal political pressure many countries have supported the US. (Thanks UK and Australia.)

Some countries value US friendship. Whether for their own security or for potential economic benefits, many countries will help the US. Especially those that feel threatened by China or Russia or Islamic terrorism.

Some countries are waffling now but may come on board as the Islamic terrorism threat strikes home.

Some countries will try to avoid the conflict. (Free-riders on US security guarantees and appeasers.)

Some will use the conflict to further their own national goals. (France and China)

Bomb-a-rama: “I find it rather strange that you would even entertain the idea of a "united Western civilization".”

No, I gave up my naïve hope for a united Western response to terror long ago. I thought my lengthy list made that clear. (Obviously not since I’m writing this follow-up.)

PS

In case it is not clear from my posts, I support Bush because the US is at war and Bush knows it. Bush will do what he believes is right for the US. Kerry may be too concerned with what his French friends want.
Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-09-09 5:25:51 PM||   2004-09-09 5:25:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 You're new here, aren't you, Anon 5032?
We've been discussing everything you just thought you were telling us for the first time for the last 3 years but thanks for the refresher.
All that being said, I still don't give a damn about this poll of the great unwashed!
I don't pay much attention to American polls either for that matter.
The only "poll" that matters is the one we'll all make on November 2 which I hope is for 4 more years for President Bush!
Posted by GreatestJeneration  2004-09-09 5:33:34 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-09-09 5:33:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 I second the idea of a series of bilateral treaties as a replacement for NATO. The "West" as a coherent moral entity no longer exists.

Aside from the UK, Israel and Australia, the US has no natural allies on this planet. There are only rivals who are more or less friendly (Canada, Japan, SoKorea, Italy, Mexico, Turkey, India) or more or less hostile (China, France, Germany, Russia), enemies (mullahs' Iran, NK, Syria) and schizoid frontline states (Pakistan, Saudi).

The really important states for us are those nations that, given the right set of carrots and sticks, can be tipped from the more or less hostile category to the more or less friendly category, such as Russia, or from the "friendly rival" to the Ally category, such as Israel and Turkey.

Posted by lex 2004-09-09 5:37:13 PM||   2004-09-09 5:37:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 India and Turkey.
Posted by lex 2004-09-09 5:38:58 PM||   2004-09-09 5:38:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Lex, I'd say the jury's still out on the New Europeans. I think Poland has proven to be pretty stand up.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 5:40:10 PM||   2004-09-09 5:40:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Alas, the younger Poles are becoming more and more Der Spiegelized each year. If I were employee number 4 at Google I'd devote a few hundred mil to a new Marshall Program aimed at future leaders of Poland, Russia, India, and Turkey for 2 years of grad study at Stanford/Hoover. We're totally dropping the ball on Poland.
Posted by lex 2004-09-09 5:47:10 PM||   2004-09-09 5:47:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 The simple truth is that most of the world is behind the US on the saturation media learning curve and skepticism has not had time to develop. The crudeness of anti-American propaganda is quite striking, even (or perhaps especially) in the Euro mass media. They are living in the early 70s in terms of audience credulity. American establishment media; faced as they are with mounting skepticism, competition, and hostility; envy their overseas counterparts continued authority.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 7:19:38 PM||   2004-09-09 7:19:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 And when did Americans get a vote in the governments of Europe in 1912 and 1938? We certainly ended up paying the price for them. Short memories these dolts.
Posted by Don 2004-09-09 8:07:07 PM||   2004-09-09 8:07:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Philippines, Nigeria,and Poland are pro-Bush. That really surprises me.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-09 8:14:23 PM||   2004-09-09 8:14:23 PM|| Front Page Top

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