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2004-09-14 Iraq-Jordan
Turkey Threatens U.S. over Iraq Casualties
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Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 3:15:10 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Big words from chicken..I mean Turkey.
Posted by Destro 2004-09-14 3:45:55 AM||   2004-09-14 3:45:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Talking turkey, I see. Their feathers are a little ruffled, but there's no need to lay an egg. Don't get in a flap! If all parties keep abreast of one another's concerns, we can deal with the meat of the issue amicably even if, ultimately, a carve-up is in order. However, Turkey needs to keep in mind that there's a pecking order here, and the American hawks are quite prepared to cook the goose if needs be...
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-14 4:08:34 AM||   2004-09-14 4:08:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Destro, be sensitive, it's "domestic fowl"!
Posted by Zarathustra 2004-09-14 4:08:47 AM||   2004-09-14 4:08:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Speaking as a chef, Turkey can get stuffed.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-14 4:27:50 AM||   2004-09-14 4:27:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Murat exclames: "Don’t talk throw the fucks out of Incirlik"

I think, Murat, that you should have a chat with the Turkish base employees. Not that you would convince them to quit their jobs, but it is quite possible that they would do some magic like turning a chicken into a vegetable.
Posted by Zarathustra 2004-09-14 4:34:04 AM||   2004-09-14 4:34:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Gul to torturers liberators:
Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül called the offensive a mistake, saying Turkey would call a complete halt to support operations if it continued. Hundreds of Turkish trucks currently cross into Iraq every day to supply US troops. Meanwhile, there have been new accusations of torture levelled against US troops in Iraq. According to the British newspaper the Guardian, American soldiers in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul regularly tortured and mishandled prisoners.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 4:36:25 AM||   2004-09-14 4:36:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Look Murat. The torturing is rare and only done when thought to be waranted by our zionist masters in Israel. Its no big deal, if it were, we'd see it more on MSM.
Posted by Anonymous6446 2004-09-14 4:53:03 AM||   2004-09-14 4:53:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 According to Al Guardian, Al Zarqawi is a revolutionary. It's a rag that makes things up on the fly.

As for the prisoners, I would recommend that they would be sent to Turkish prisons. They may get a bit more clearer idea what torture and mishandling actually means. Sure, Turkish prison is a paradise in comparison with, for instance, a Syrian prison, but it is still no picnic.
Posted by Zarathustra 2004-09-14 4:55:01 AM||   2004-09-14 4:55:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 PS What an indignant fuck!

I have to take a shower now.
Posted by Zarathustra 2004-09-14 4:58:01 AM||   2004-09-14 4:58:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Murat is mistakening bathing and feeding for torture. Suppose its just a cultural gap.
Posted by Anonymous6446 2004-09-14 5:02:53 AM||   2004-09-14 5:02:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 What's the Turkish for 'hypocrite', Murat?
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-14 5:05:38 AM||   2004-09-14 5:05:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 What's the Turkish for 'hypocrite', Murat?

Ehm, the new word for it is: Bush
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 5:13:22 AM||   2004-09-14 5:13:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Ehm, the new word for it is: Bush

The Turkish word for Hypocrite has a sexual undertone to it? That's against Islamic principles, isn't it?
Posted by Charles  2004-09-14 5:26:44 AM||   2004-09-14 5:26:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Maybe Charles, but Turkey doesn't function on Islamic principles but on secular principles, so there is no problem.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 5:37:56 AM||   2004-09-14 5:37:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Hey Murat, didn't another Turkish truck driver buy it yesterday? Thought you'd be as keen to get rid of the fascist scum that's hijacked your religion as anyone else? Even if it means a few friendlies buying it as well...
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-14 6:15:44 AM||   2004-09-14 6:15:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 I mean to add Beeb sneer marks- 'friendlies'
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-14 6:16:24 AM||   2004-09-14 6:16:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Heard the Kurdish to Turkey oil may go on permanent maintenance. Pity.
Posted by Zion Oil Co. 2004-09-14 7:14:17 AM||   2004-09-14 7:14:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Murat FOAD
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-14 7:37:41 AM||   2004-09-14 7:37:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Murat: What's the Turkish for 'hypocrite', Murat?

I believe the word is Erdogan.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-14 8:03:26 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 8:03:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 "Don’t talk throw the fucks out of Incirlik"
Careful, Murat, or someday we won't help protect you from those Kurds you fear so much.

Posted by Tom 2004-09-14 8:06:34 AM||   2004-09-14 8:06:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 "Don’t talk throw the fucks out of Incirlik"
And lose your pending membership of the EU. I really don't think so sh*t-fer-brains.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-14 8:09:20 AM||   2004-09-14 8:09:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Hey Chinaman, using Bush or Erdogan for hypocrite, both will do, but Bush is globally more accepted :)
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 8:27:17 AM||   2004-09-14 8:27:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 We're all missing the real key to this story.

Read it again, and concentrate on this:

Turkey would no longer cooperate with the US over Iraq if ethnic Turks continued to be harmed

The Turks are just being racist fucks. Once we realize that, we can appreciate where they're coming from and start ignoring the little twits the way they deserve.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-14 8:28:27 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-14 8:28:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Hey Chinaman

Still sore about the Mongols?
Posted by ed 2004-09-14 8:50:12 AM||   2004-09-14 8:50:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Oooooooooooo! The Turks are still mad at us! Oooooooooooo! The Turkish! Oooooooooooooooo! Hide me, Smithers! The Turkish are mad at us!
Posted by Montgomery Burns 2004-09-14 8:57:00 AM||   2004-09-14 8:57:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 How can Murat be racist? He's working to support the terrorists who are using blackmail against the Turkomen populace in Iraq so they can use them as human shields.

Here's a hint: go find some former S. Vietnamese somewhere besides Vietnam and ask them if all the stuff in the left-wing history books about the Viet Cong is actually _true_. Then ask yourself if what happened to them is what you want for the Turkomens.

China was one of North Vietnam's main allies, who helped them wipe S. Vietnam from the map in the name of international communism and Sticking It To The Americans. And within two years of winning the war the unified Vietnam killed or kicked out most Vietnamese of Chinese descent, even the ones that had supported the North.

Those people accounted for some 300,000 or so of the million to a million and a half refugees who left via sea; I don't have any figures for how many of that subset of the refugees died.

Convince yourself the people using turkomens as hostages and human shields are a popular resistance if you want; pretend they have the best interests of the turkomen at heart as well... just do yourself a favor, and ask the last group of people who got a dictatorship disguised as a popular resistance how it worked out first.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-14 8:58:01 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-14 8:58:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Sure, Murat. Do they teach you that some turn-of-the-century Turk invented the airplane? That's a standard one for nationalist bigots and hypocrites these days.
The other day someone at Al Guardian slipped up and admitted the truth by publishing an interview with an Iraqi hero-freedom fighter who declared that "a negro occupation" was deeply humiliating to his people and that they preferentially attacked Black American soldiers.
Just as Euro-swine sneer at "fat Americans," anti-Americanism is nothing but the crudest kind of nationalistic bigotry and racism.

It is time we faced the truth. Europeans sneer at American patriotism and nationalism, not because they are beyond such things, but because it conflicts with their own much more rabid and primitive belief in their own inherent superiority.
Ever meet a Euro America-basher who was not sublimely convinced of his or her inherent superiority?
It is the same with Muslims but worse. CAIR and its hypocritical apologists scream "racism" every time someone tells the truth about them, but they represent the most bigoted and racist large group of people in the world, followed closely by the stupid, docile, media-slave masses of Europe.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 9:20:34 AM||   2004-09-14 9:20:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 I'll state it plainly: the global bigot masses will perish from belief in their own stupid mythology, and the monstrous hypocrites and traitors in America who abet them and cover for them will share their fate.
This war is the next step in human evolution, the rise of mass media has made it necessary to eliminate the more credulous strains of social and political thought and the inferior masses who fall for them. The law of survival dictates this, and it has never been wrong.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 9:28:04 AM||   2004-09-14 9:28:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 If you ignore the noise here, what I suspect is going on is that Turkey, once again, I might add, sent a large group of elite soldiers undercover to Tall Afar, looking to create mischief. We have told them to stop doing that, and have kicked out a bunch of their people. But they just can't resist the golden opportunity to involve themselves in Iraqi affairs.
Posted by Anonymoose 2004-09-14 9:34:01 AM||   2004-09-14 9:34:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 Gul said "...Turkey’s cooperation on issues regarding Iraq will come to a total stop."

I believe this should read "...will return to a total stop."

Faster, please...
Posted by snellenr  2004-09-14 9:45:35 AM||   2004-09-14 9:45:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 AC - you rock. Excellent 2-steps-back big picture. Without it, this just looks like adventurism - but it's much more than that - it's a systemic problem and it's not limited to the Turks. And a reckoning will follow - as evolution, indeed, marches on, whether anyone likes it, wants it, or not. Thanks, bro.
Posted by .com 2004-09-14 9:47:38 AM||   2004-09-14 9:47:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 Turkey would no longer cooperate with the US over Iraq if ethnic Turks continued to be harmed

Has cooperation from Turkey been a thing of wonder up til now? Maybe it depends on at what time you measure it-when we needed them, as an ally, at the entrance of the war, or now, when they should also be with us? Steadfast is not a word I would use to describe Turkey.
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-14 9:52:33 AM||   2004-09-14 9:52:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 AC - what you are prescribing may actually occur, but we Americans would be unwelcome in many areas of the world. On the plus side, we wouldn't wish to travel there, anyway, due to the high levels of radioactivity
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-14 10:03:15 AM||   2004-09-14 10:03:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 Whatever you bumheads interprete, some countries begin to speak out loud how they think about torturing babykilling nazi's
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 10:03:47 AM||   2004-09-14 10:03:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 you welcome them, right? Asshat
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-14 10:04:15 AM||   2004-09-14 10:04:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 Murat: Hey Chinaman, using Bush or Erdogan for hypocrite, both will do, but Bush is globally more accepted :)

I'm not Chinese. But it's understandable why a Turk would be resentful towards the Chinese. The Turks originated in China's Far West. The reason the Turks ended up on the Anatolian peninsula is because they couldn't stand up to Chinese military pressure. Even today, the borders of the various Turkic states in Central Asia are under consistent Chinese pressure. If Turkey doesn't walk back from its anti-Americanism, there may come a time when Murat will have to speak Mandarin to communicate to his country's Autonomous Region's rulers.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-14 10:07:47 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 10:07:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 Murat: Whatever you bumheads interprete, some countries begin to speak out loud how they think about torturing babykilling nazi's

We'd have to go a long way to match Turkey's massacre of 1 million Armenians, in addition to an assortment of other massacres carried out in the name of the Ottoman empire.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-14 10:09:33 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 10:09:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 Murat, you need to stop worrying about a few Turkmen and start being a pain to Syria. Provocations against the U.S. are eventually going to unleash our nukes because we have a low tolerance for ground wars and a low tolerance for losing and about 7,000 nukes. Iran is going to get nuked for its nuke ambitions and Syria is going to get nuked if any of Saddam's WMDs turn up there. That's the only way we can be sure that Syria won't use the rest that it has burried. Murat, the only thing you've got going for you is that the fallout will probably drift eastward.
Posted by Tom 2004-09-14 10:17:01 AM||   2004-09-14 10:17:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 Gul to torturers..

You sure you're not Ted Kennedy or one of his disciples?
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-14 10:18:57 AM||   2004-09-14 10:18:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 Well that 1 million Armenians claim is a fictive figure, while Iraq, Vietnam etc. are real, you have surpassed us long time mr Chinese convert.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 10:18:57 AM||   2004-09-14 10:18:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#41 Murat, both of my parents are unfortunately intimately familiar with real baby-killing Nazis. And grandmother-killing Nazis, too. By comparing American soldiers to them, you demonstrate abysmal ignorance.

For whatever reason, you are being offensive and hysterical. Please go away, and don't come back until you can argue sensibly.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-14 10:21:22 AM||   2004-09-14 10:21:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#42 or just go away ;-)
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-14 10:22:54 AM||   2004-09-14 10:22:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#43 You know nothing about Vietnam, Murat, except the nazi-style big lies your bigot overlords have told you. The demonization of our effort to prevent the Stalinist conquest of South Vietnam is the number one reason I despise the Eurabian media, and the most compelling piece of evidence that they are not just innocently mistaken but depraved, willful liars and apologists for genocide.
Even that propaganda is not original, they borrowed it from American traitors and Kremlin apologists, elaborating along the way. It is what bigoted and primitive minds want to believe and the Eurabian master race always feeds them what they want.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 10:28:01 AM||   2004-09-14 10:28:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 Murat: Well that 1 million Armenians claim is a fictive figure, while Iraq, Vietnam etc. are real, you have surpassed us long time mr Chinese convert.

Murat, I'm a China-watcher, not Chinese or a Chinese convert (whatever that is). Uncle Sam won't bail Turkey out forever. And China has so many people and so little land. In time, Turkey will be full of refugees from the various 'stans, as the Chinese continue pacifying the barbarians Turks on their borders. Watch for it.

As to Armenia, it is curious how Muslims can never own up to their atrocities. Westerners tend to magnify their faults, but Orientals will outright deny even the most bestial blood-fests they were responsible for. But then again, most Muslims believe that Jews were responsible for 9/11.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-14 10:28:49 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 10:28:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 the Eurabian master race always feeds them what they want

That would be "Shit", would it not!
Posted by RN  2004-09-14 10:31:00 AM||   2004-09-14 10:31:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 In the not too distant future, somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa, the oppressed and abused populations will rise up, find the leadership they need, and sweep north to the shores of the Mediterranean.
This will happen despite the best efforts of Eurabian NGOs and business interests to maintain chaos and disaster through continued support of corrupt leadership.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 10:34:09 AM||   2004-09-14 10:34:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 Funny how that "Armenian thing" always comes up in the conversation isn't it, Murat? Then you say it's bullshit. Then you run away.
Bye, Murat.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 10:35:01 AM||   2004-09-14 10:35:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities
At least 1 million, and possibly well over half of the Armenian population, are reliably estimated to have been killed or death marched by independent authorities and eye-witnesses. This is corroborated by reports in United States, German and British archives and of contemporary diplomats in the Ottoman Empire, including those of its ally Germany. The German Ambassador, Wangenheim, for example, on 7 July 1915 wrote "the government is indeed pursuing its goal of exterminating the Armenian race in the Ottoman Empire" (Wilhelmstrasse archives).

Estimates for the 1915-16 Armenian genocide range from 1-2 million with 1.5 million the agreed best estimate. Over 2 million were murdered if the previous 30 years are included. For instance the 1895 massacres killed 100,000-200,000 Armenians. That Murat is your Turkish legacy.
Posted by ed 2004-09-14 10:40:01 AM||   2004-09-14 10:40:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#49 You know nothing about Vietnam, Murat

Offcourse my dear, you Americans have always noble excuses for your crimes, if it is not stalinizm, you invent WMD or bringing freedom & democracy or other blah blah, (All of your claims turned to be an empty balloon). Has hollywood run out of inventivity, can't she produce a bunch new just causes anymore? Powell is in dire need since his sattelite photo's of mobile WMD units turned out a flop.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 10:41:23 AM||   2004-09-14 10:41:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#50 Murat, so what's your "noble excuse" for...well, you know... that "Armenian thing"?
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 10:46:06 AM||   2004-09-14 10:46:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#51 Offcourse my dear, you Americans have always noble excuses for your crimes,..

Or, to add to tu3031's observations, Murat will simply ignore the subject of Armenia.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-14 10:46:26 AM||   2004-09-14 10:46:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#52 Ed how comes that 1915 Ottoman register of population give only 1.2mln Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire and there has supposedly been killed 2mln (800.000 non existing Armenians) in a tempo that Hitler himself would be jealous, without any concentration camps ever proven to have existed. That all while it is proven that no single Armenian in the capital Istanbul has seen any harm. The whole Armenian genocide claim is just that, a fictive claim.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-14 10:48:52 AM||   2004-09-14 10:48:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#53 Whatever you bumheads interprete, some countries begin to speak out loud how they think about torturing babykilling nazi's

You're right; I hear Muslims aren't too popular in Nepal and Russia right now.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-14 10:48:55 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-14 10:48:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#54 C'mon, Murat. The bumheads are waiting. Let's have it.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 10:50:46 AM||   2004-09-14 10:50:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#55 Don’t talk throw the fucks out of Incirlik

Oh, God, please let the Turks do that. Please. The fewer worthless countries we're stuck in meaningless alliances with, the better.
Posted by Pat Phillips 2004-09-14 10:52:07 AM||   2004-09-14 10:52:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#56 Murat, how does it feel to be a holocaust denier? Do you sleep well at night? Do you feel a filth no soap could ever remove?

http://www.fact-index.com/a/ar/armenian_genocide.html

In 1890 there were 2.5 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire,


So your own numbers say that 1.3 million were killed over the course of 25 years.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-14 10:55:54 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-14 10:55:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#57 Because Turks (as Muslims) lie. Just as you lie about the Armenian Genocide.

A local (for me) lie put out by the Muslim community is that their are 7 million (and as high as 10 million) Muslims in the US. The most scientific estimate was about 2 million (in 2001?) and no reputable estimate has ever gone above 3 million. 6-7 million might be reached if all Arabs are also counted. But most Arabs in the US are Christians who couldn't wait to get as far away from their muslim neighbors.

So Murat, where are the extra 4-8 million muslims? Why do muslim lie so much? Oh, yeah, the Koran says it's a duty to lie if it helps the umma.
Posted by ed 2004-09-14 10:57:39 AM||   2004-09-14 10:57:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#58 So, Murat -

How come a Greek's being so protective of the despised Turk?
Posted by mojo  2004-09-14 10:58:58 AM||   2004-09-14 10:58:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#59 "Has hollywood run out of inventivity, can't she produce a bunch new just causes anymore?"

Murat, you stupid slave. Don't you know your own masters? Hollywood/media traitors like Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite invented the lies your slave media have told you about Vietnam.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 11:10:36 AM||   2004-09-14 11:10:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#60 Question, if the Greeks and the Turks got dragged into war who would win? Assuming everyone else stayed out of the conflict. Would they just destroy each others navy's, air forces, and then throw insults at each other, or would there be some possibility of one gaining the upper hand (outside of Cypress).

How well defended is Istanbul/Constantinople and how easy would it be to block reinforcements crossing from Anatolia to the balkans?
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-09-14 11:14:46 AM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 11:14:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#61 The Turks are walking a fine line here... I guess Greater Kurdistan (comprising Northern Iraq, Eastern Turkey, Northern Syria and Northwestern Iran would guarantee the U.S. an ally that would not falter.

Oh btw, how about returning the robbed Armenian territory?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 11:24:50 AM||   2004-09-14 11:24:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#62 RJS, the Turks are tough (except for slaves like Murat) but the influence of Islamism, however suppressed, would probably be a fatal weakness. On the other hand, Greek society is in the heyday of saturation-media credibility and influence, another potentially fatal weakness.
This would be an interesting contest. Is Muslim stupidity and mythology a greater weakness than Euro-bigot stupidity and hubris?
Break out the popcorn.
Incidentally, childlike faith in various tenets of the Vietnam myth, universally accepted in Eurabia and its American colonies (Berkeley, etc.), was an important factor in the downfall of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, and even perhaps in the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 11:28:41 AM||   2004-09-14 11:28:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#63 AC, well said. I wonder how much you could make for a Greece-Turkey rematch on Pay-per-View?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 11:32:42 AM||   2004-09-14 11:32:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#64 TGA - Amen. Given Caucusus Nerd's map and this one, the Turks are flirting with serious territorial issues. Oohweee! Look at all those Kurds... Prolly what gets the dipshit's panties all bunched up. With a chunk of Northern Syria to provide them a nice port or two, who knows what these civilized industrious folks could become?
Posted by .com 2004-09-14 11:32:42 AM||   2004-09-14 11:32:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#65 "without any concentration camps ever proven to have existed."

Hey 'Rat, SO WHAT? There weren't any concentration camps in Rwanda either, and genocide was perpetrated there in a "tempo" that, in your words, "Hitler would be jealous".
There is not a shred of doubt that Turkey engaged in genocide of the Armenians. In fact, the Turks did such a good job that Hitler used them as an inspiration.
Posted by docob 2004-09-14 11:36:22 AM||   2004-09-14 11:36:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#66 "I guess Greater Kurdistan (comprising Northern Iraq, Eastern Turkey, Northern Syria and Northwestern Iran would guarantee the U.S. an ally that would not falter."

Well stated, TGA.

Oh,that it may someday be so!
Posted by docob 2004-09-14 11:40:38 AM||   2004-09-14 11:40:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#67 Murat writes: That all while it is proven that no single Armenian in the capital Istanbul has seen any harm. The whole Armenian genocide claim is just that, a fictive claim.

Photo Caption: Armenians hanged in the street in Constantinople (Istanbul) before the deportation of the Armenians to the desert had begun. People are looking on, some frightened, others as if it were a performance.
Not Safe for Work
Posted by ed 2004-09-14 11:51:16 AM||   2004-09-14 11:51:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#68 Damn, Murat. Looks like the roof caved in on you. Again. We'll see you tomorrow.
Bring your lunch.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 11:51:35 AM||   2004-09-14 11:51:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#69 Question, if the Greeks and the Turks got dragged into war who would win? Assuming everyone else stayed out of the conflict.

Turkey has vast numerical superiority. Most of the defeats Turkey has suffered from Greece have been in the stage of a wider conflict (e.g. 1st Balkan war when it was a Bulgaria-Serbia-Greece alliance against Turkey) or with the aid of Western powers (war of independence and the Brit-French-Russian fleet destroying the Turk-Egyptian fleet at Navarino)
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-09-14 11:56:38 AM||   2004-09-14 11:56:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#70 Turkey is probably interfering by once again sending Spec Ops troops into Iraq. Tal Afar is a smugglers paradise, not very differernt from Fallujah. It needs to be cleaned out. That fact that ethnic Turkomen live there is of no consequence, just as that fact that Fallujah is full of Sunni Arabs. Both are rats nests. In Tal Afar's case, it is a rats nest with Turkish troops. There is no other reason that Turkey would be crying about this.
Posted by remote man 2004-09-14 12:30:05 PM||   2004-09-14 12:30:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#71 Well, perhaps we could reform the Greek/Bulgar/Serb alliance. Then, with the Kurds breaking away in the south, that would give the Turks two fronts. Heck, let's invite Armenia in again. Wouldn't it be nice to have Haiga Sophia in a Christian Constantinople?

Sooner or later, the world, if it wants to survive, will have to eliminate Islamism.
Posted by jackal  2004-09-14 12:34:27 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2004-09-14 12:34:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#72 Interesting points, jackal (#71).

"American forces say the operation is aimed at trying to root out hundreds of militants and restore government control."

Those "pesky" US operations against Islamofacism--they always ruin Murat's day.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-09-14 1:15:22 PM||   2004-09-14 1:15:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#73 According to yesterday's post, Turkey is pissed because the Iraqi troops supporting the operation are mostly Kurds.
Posted by Anonymous6453 2004-09-14 2:05:51 PM||   2004-09-14 2:05:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#74 You now what is funny ... Most of people on this site are pro Israel at any cost that should be send there at tax payer expence . Pro g bush that should work for free on is Texan ranch sucking is toros or retired American irrelevant with no voice in the politicks of their foreign controlled country.... but they still bravely convicted of they are doing their part in spilling their irrelevant opinion because maybe somebody (their Hope) going to find their ranted to be of interests
PS: to the graaamaticaly inclined one SU&%^ MY D9432
Posted by Anonymous6454 2004-09-14 2:25:13 PM||   2004-09-14 2:25:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#75 Anybody here "graaamaticaly inclined"? I think it's some kind of mental disease, if you go by this guy.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 2:27:56 PM||   2004-09-14 2:27:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#76 Here, little one, let me help you out a little:

Anon6454 - You're rather pathetic, Fuckwit.

What is funny is that you're just another whining gutless powerless little twitter who doesn't have a vote on November 3rd - LOL - so you run around dropping little rabbit turds wherever you go - scared of your own shadow. Good. Be afraid.

And I believe that was "Suck My Dick" you were trying to say in your whimpering pussy-boy way. But you don't have a dick, little one. That's a nubbin' you're sporting, not much good for anything.
Posted by .com 2004-09-14 2:31:50 PM||   2004-09-14 2:31:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#77 Anon6453, you wrap it up nicely.

Turkish Jeopardy:
This famous line is from what movie: "be afrwaid, be vewy, vewy afwaid"?
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-14 2:32:02 PM||   2004-09-14 2:32:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#78 Hey #76 from the fisherman point of view the most stupid!
The most idiot always fell.
I guess you are a destined to be eliminated ...erased as a culture and genetically it was tried in the past but the energy still at work and today because many morons especially in this post will be easier when time come
Posted by Anonymous6454 2004-09-14 2:41:08 PM||   2004-09-14 2:41:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#79 Once again... anybody?
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-14 2:45:40 PM||   2004-09-14 2:45:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#80 I can shout, don't hear you! You guy, you!
Posted by .com 2004-09-14 2:49:55 PM||   2004-09-14 2:49:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#81 I see the left has brought out its most nuanced and sophisticated debater.
George Bush's Spanish is a lot better than 6454's English.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 2:52:54 PM||   2004-09-14 2:52:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#82 I think I've found the dialect:
U dere, hun-troll 6454, kiss der arse de Arafat, eat our MOAB. you make nice splash, on front of Bradley, no? U mama not recognize, even tiny dick she know so well. Bomb find u and you die of own lies coz u 2 dum get our of out way. GWB smarter than next 100 huns/trolls what comin' here.
I say, must be true.

Well, we tried to open a dialog anyway.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-14 2:59:08 PM||   2004-09-14 2:59:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#83 Linked above was a map of the Kurdish areas and it got me wondering. Is that Iraqi/Saudi neutral zone just west of Kuwait (I believe PJ O'Rourke called it "Churchill's hiccup") still there or have they finally just drawn a line in the sand.

What is the legal status of such an area if smugglers and such set up bases there?
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-09-14 3:17:28 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 3:17:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#84 I'd also like to add that its refreshing to see the borders don't overlap everywhere in the middle east. Clearly there must be just sand in the hiccup.
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-09-14 3:18:15 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-09-14 3:18:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#85 Looking at the map, and the ethnic distribution, maybe we should give up on a "united" Iraq. Give the Kurdish areas their own state, and force Turkey to hand over the Kurdish lands there - the final dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

Then arm the Kurds and let them pressure Iran and Syria.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 3:53:29 PM||   2004-09-14 3:53:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#86 If Turkey plays its game U.S. AID & other tax payer funder hand outs to Turkey must be cut off.
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-14 4:03:33 PM||   2004-09-14 4:03:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#87 Murat: think about torturing babykilling nazi's

What, like the ones in Beslan?
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-14 4:07:23 PM||   2004-09-14 4:07:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#88 Excellent recommendation OS.

There's always been a concern on the part of the Turks that that's exactly what might happen and we've shied away from that to mollify them.

Well the Turks have proven themselves half-hearted allies at best. I say the Kurds get northern tier and the oil fields, thus providing them the resources to support a governmental infrastructure, purchase weapons and bribe those that need it.

They are a military minded people that could easily defend themselves and offer the U.S. led coalition a counter balance to the radical Islamists in the region.
Posted by RN  2004-09-14 4:08:36 PM||   2004-09-14 4:08:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#89 Not a bad option. Good piece by senior US diplomat Peter Galbriath arguing same--see part 3 of this essay: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17406

In the May 13 issue of The New York Review, I argued that the breakup of Iraq seemed more likely than a successful transition to centralized democracy. I suggested that Iraq can be held together only as a loose federation consisting of Kurdistan, a Sunni entity in the center, and a Shiite entity in the south, with Baghdad as a jointly administered federal capital.

Subsequent events make such a breakup more likely than ever. The Kurds, whose attachment to Iraq was minimal to start with, have been further estranged by the bungled way they were excluded from the top positions in the transitional government and by the Bush administration's decision to abandon the TAL. As support for extremists grows in Arab Iraq, the Kurds increasingly regard the rest of Iraq as an alien land. While just a few months ago Kurdish leaders concentrated on how to increase their influence in Baghdad, they now think as much about how to disengage from Iraq in the event of further deterioration, which most see as inevitable.

... the differences between Iraq's Sunnis and Shiites are not nearly as deep as the ethnic gulf between Kurds and Arabs.

The opposition between Kurds and Arabs (both Shiite and Sunni) in Iraq is rooted not just in ethnicity and history. The two communities have radically different visions of what Iraq should be... Public opinion polls show that Kurds have their own distinctive views on such matters as democracy, the role of women, the place of religion in government, and on whether Iraq needs a new strongman.

The Kurds are avowedly secular, wishing to keep religion and state separate; many are proud of the progress women have made in many spheres during the twelve years of Kurdish self-rule. Arab Iraqis, and in particular the Shiite majority, want Islam to have a significant role in the state. They believe Islam should be the principal source of public law, governing, for example, the personal status of women in matters such as divorce.

These differences are most pronounced in the attitudes toward Americans. The US government poll showed that 90 percent of Arab Iraqis see the US as occupiers (and just 2 percent as liberators) while other surveys showed more than 80 percent of the people in Kurdistan see the US as liberators. But apart from these attitudes toward the US, it is hard to see how a country can be held together when its major peoples hold such fundamentally different views of the nature of the state.

The Abu Ghraib prison scandals, combined with the success of the Falluja and al-Sadr insurgencies, have, if anything, heightened these ideological distinctions. Arabs were appalled by the abuses of naked Iraqi prisoners; and even those opposed to the insurgencies welcomed the exposure of wrongdoing by an unpopular occupying power. The Kurdish press and television played down the scandals of Abu Ghraib.... And the Kurds, who see their fate as linked to that of the United States, wish the US could do better in the fight against the twin insurgencies.

Posted by lex 2004-09-14 4:11:49 PM||   2004-09-14 4:11:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#90 I feel us reaching a consensus, an idea we can all agree on. Murat, you too?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 4:47:18 PM||   2004-09-14 4:47:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#91 Give the Kurdish areas their own state,

I always figured this was our trump card for dealing with the Sunnis and Shites. If everyone doesn't play nice together, we split the place into 3 parts: the Sunnis and Shites divide the south and our close, personal friends, the Kurds, get the north with the oil.
Posted by SteveS 2004-09-14 6:06:56 PM||   2004-09-14 6:06:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#92 Even better, we deepen ties with a grateful, freed people who have shown loyalty to us. That's a rare starting point in those parts-the populace recognizes us as decent people. Let's not blow it.
Posted by jules 2 2004-09-14 7:46:05 PM||   2004-09-14 7:46:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#93 Murat, how about a trade? You let all the Kurds in Turkey go to Iraq and the Iraqis send Turkey ALL the Turkmens in Iraq. Both countries would be better for it. Oh by the way, the US would pull out of Turkey to new bases in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.
Posted by Random thoughts 2004-09-14 8:38:13 PM||   2004-09-14 8:38:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#94 Murat's gone back under his rock
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-14 8:42:35 PM||   2004-09-14 8:42:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#95 Well, we did say we wanted a secular democracy in the middle of the region, one that was self sufficient, and had oil.

Thats Kurdistan.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 9:42:04 PM||   2004-09-14 9:42:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#96 Nah - set up an Army Stryker brigade and a USAF Base in Kurdistan. Use the NW part of Syria as oceanic access. Put an oil terminal and port there, as well as a small US Naval base.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 9:44:09 PM||   2004-09-14 9:44:09 PM|| Front Page Top

21:52 007
21:52 007
09:22 P_CE Reporter
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13:35 Anonymous6449
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12:21 Anonymous6449
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00:32 P&CE Reporter
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