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2004-12-28 Home Front: WoT

Officer released from brig for 'scrounging'

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Posted by Zenster 2004-12-28 12:22:30 AM|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "It's always easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission."

Posted by mojo 2004-12-28 12:43:31 AM|| 2004-12-28 12:43:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 And I certainly hope it's forthcoming in the way of a complete pardon. This is typical JAG REMF work - for something that happens in every war and is usally rewarded, not punished, by those who have felt the pointed end.

Posted by .com 2004-12-28 1:17:09 AM|| 2004-12-28 1:17:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 MAJ Kaus certainly deserves clemency, and a full and unconditional pardon. The cast of halfwits who (1) charged and (2) convicted her, on the other hand, deserve to be busted to E-1, dressed in bright-orange BDU's, and sent on patrol in the nastiest part of Iraq that can be found for them to experience. For Chrissakes, in my day if scroungers had been routinely court-martialed, the fleet would have rusted at pierside and the supply of Chief Petty Officers would have been almost nil.

Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2004-12-28 3:51:02 AM|| 2004-12-28 3:51:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 And BTW, where the hell is the Army Chief of Staff in relation to this and similar REMFs-run-amok stories covered here and elsewhere. I thought he was such a baaaadasssss Spec Ops type, too. Why the phuque isn't he doing mass firings of nonhacking officers who try to pull stateside garrison bullshit in the middle of a war? When George Marshall took over as CoS in '39, he fired generals and senior colonels by the dozen, promoting the future superstars of WWII to take their places. Not a peep from this guy...

Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2004-12-28 3:57:46 AM|| 2004-12-28 3:57:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 What RbR says in 3 & 4. Unofficial military wartime doctrine is: Adapt, Improvise & Overcome. Firing squads for the JAG and Command REMF's!

-AR

Posted by Analog Roam 2004-12-28 6:58:32 AM|| 2004-12-28 6:58:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 GEEZE! I guess I won't mention how long I had that Hummer, that didn't exactly belong to our little unit, during the first gulf war. I didn't strip it but sure appropriated it for our use for a few months, I imagine the proper unit got it back eventually...

Posted by Lilly 2004-12-28 7:43:42 AM|| 2004-12-28 7:43:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 There are stories from the GWI (likely greened up a lot) of Marine tank companies "trading" their M60A3s for Abrahms.

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-28 8:21:51 AM|| 2004-12-28 8:21:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Right you are RbR.
If these standards had been diligently applied during my career, I would have "retired" at E-1 rather than the somewhat higher rank I mentioned the other day.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-12-28 12:10:17 PM|| 2004-12-28 12:10:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Ship,

Stories like this actually go back to WWII and perhaps further. My father was on Guam and was involved in the AAC liberation of a refrigeration unit from the USN that contained ice cream. I suspect it too found its way back to the "proper unit" but may have been a bit lighter.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-28 12:41:41 PM|| 2004-12-28 12:41:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Some may recall the field version of a beer run, heh. In my time I'd suggest it was a Good Thingâ¢ the majority of JAG people were otherwise engaged in interviewing and lining up jobs to coincide with separation.

Kaus & Co, however have too much class - and were accordingly punished for it.

I've just emailed one of my Senators, a certain Mr Harry Reid who is also the Donk Minority Leader, to inform him of my thoughts regards Kaus and her crew. I recommend this action for all RBers.

Posted by .com 2004-12-28 12:52:41 PM|| 2004-12-28 12:52:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Military "scrounging" like this has been going on since the advent of warfare itself. What's changed is the ascendancy of hidebound bean-counting spec writers over resourceful and industrious warriors. It is a form of elitism and, as always, such upper-echelon thinking usually ends up getting our boots-on-the-ground killed.

A similar shift has occurred in American business. It was pointed out by Jeffry Love in his book about McDonald's Corporation that, back when the hamburger company was starting out, about the only way into all corporate executive management positions was through sales.

All that has changed with the advent of MBA programs and the CEOs who graduate from them. There is no longer any charismatic leadership by those who have risen through the ranks. Instead we are greeted by ivory tower economics and complete disregard for the rank and file work force.

Witness how few of our politicians have ever run a profitable business but feel entitled to designate how our tax dollars should be spent. Examine how so many corporate leaders no longer have the least concern for creating careers and instead gleefully slash workforces to incur false profitability that boosts the value of their stock options.

It is this same mentality being exhibited in the prosecution of Kaus and, whether it be in our military or the private sector, both stifle performance and attainment of objectives.

Some of the highest praise I have ever received in a job reference mentioned my "ability to work with or around company procedures." This was from one of the only bosses I've ever had that purposefully gave me the time to attain excellence.

The profound lack of leadership-by-example that permeates America all the way to its very top executive suites and governmental offices is a lethal poison that threatens to cripple our national preeminence.

Posted by Zenster 2004-12-28 1:55:20 PM|| 2004-12-28 1:55:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 AARRRGGGHHH...the more I think about this story, the madder I get. Yet another reason why the Army brass needs to be purged harshly: this lady was court-martialed and jailed for doing her job in what appears to be a meritorious manner - accomplishing her mission despite the obstacles. Meanwhile, the alleged BG Janis Karpinski (also a USAR officer), whose nonexistent leadership was the genesis of the Abu Grabass "scandal" and gave the Quislingcrat/media fifth column a huge win in their plan to discredit and derail the war effort, remains free and uncharged.

And yes, I think .com (#10) has a good idea in contacting relevant Senators and Congresscritters on this issue. It might be worth contacting Rep. Duncan Hunter's office - he's chair of House Armed Services, and his own son is a Marine officer deployed to the Sandbox.

Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2004-12-28 1:59:41 PM|| 2004-12-28 1:59:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 As I recall the story, one point made in the courts martial was that the defendants not only 'liberated' needed equipment, they then lied to investigators about the equipment. I suspect (don't know mil justice) that cheezed off the investigators.

I wonder what would have happened if the good Major had said something along the lines of, "Trucks? Oh, those trucks! Yeah, we found 'em, used 'em, great trucks. Oh, um, yeah, they aren't ours, but we delivered fuel to the front with 'em. You want 'em back? Yeah, sure, no probs, um, Monday okay with you?" And then turned to her first sargeant and said something like "Top! Get those fxxxing trucks outta here! We've been busted!"

Posted by Steve White 2004-12-28 2:29:25 PM|| 2004-12-28 2:29:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Steve, you are correct. Both the Major and the CWO should have known better. They lied to investigators and attempted to hide or destroy evidence. The Army doesn't courtmartial senior officers like this for scrounging.

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2004-12-28 3:55:18 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2004-12-28 3:55:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Did they actually lie to the investigators? Or did they follow SOP and look stoopid and promise to get to the bottom of it?

Posted by Fred 2004-12-28 4:02:43 PM|| 2004-12-28 4:02:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Damn, I see the problem. Sophisticated thievery ought to be left to senior NCOs.

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-28 5:12:13 PM|| 2004-12-28 5:12:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I've closed down three units during my military career. At each one, there reached a point where Supply wouldn't take back any more "office supplies". One unit threw theirs in a dumpster (I recovered 90% of it). I sent several TONS of stuff to other units in the local area, and one time drove an Air Force 1-ton pick-up loaded with office equipment 70 miles to another unit for their use. "Scrounging" was an essential skill for an NCO to have. In Vietnam, we "scrounged" enough military hardware to outfit a self-protection company, complete with mortars and machine guns. Scarey for an Air Force unit sitting right beside 7th Air Force Headquarters, and only a block from MACV!

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-12-28 5:12:53 PM|| [http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2004-12-28 5:12:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 With a little offense intended, guys, when "scrounging," don't
a. conceal the fact of illict use, appropriation, or "theft" of military property, even when it's "necessary" to mission completion.

b. act in a conspiracy from a position of authority to keep concealing the fact of unauthorized scrounging, theft, and destruction of military property.

c. you DON'T chop-shop the vehicles you stole, erase identification numbers and forge maintenance logs, and refrain from returning them to their legitimate operators. THAT'S CALLED "ADMISSION OF GUILT."

I thought we were supposed to foster some sort of personal responsibility in our troops. If these vehicles were so "mission critical," why can't the troops that took them simply fess up to their violation of regulation, and claim mitigating circumstances, BEFORE they get courtmartialed???

Like I said in the discussion of Birt a month or so ago, Kaus got off easy compared to some in her command.
c.

Posted by Angash Elminelet3775 2004-12-28 10:11:08 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:11:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 "c"?

Wow, you're fast!

The hiding / covering up / lying did the deed. To be honest, I didn't recall that, but my heart is still with the scroungers and doing the mission. I was short-sheeted enough times to understand the frustration, but I didn't try to hide it. In fact, I took a Battalion Art 15 once when I fessed up to some midnight requisition activities. It was overturned somewhere up above that - never knew who did it, but obviously they had been there / done that themselves. There were a few other interesting events in which I was not bailed out, lol... I made Spec-4 twice, heh.

Posted by .com 2004-12-28 10:26:18 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:26:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 8 years of Clinton approved flag rank officers who are now atop the military - book bound, risk averse types who are more concerned with blame than victory.

So they screw soldiers for doing whatever is neccesary to win battles and save lives. How does this surprise anyone?

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 That they are not getting fragged suprizes me.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-28 10:32:49 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-28 10:32:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 OldSpook,

I am not surprised. This is why the 2008 elections are going to be very important. We need 12-16 years of conservatives to wash away the 8 years of filth from Clinton.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-28 10:45:38 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:45:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 8 years of Clinton approved flag rank officers who are now atop the military - book bound, risk averse types who are more concerned with blame than victory.

So they screw soldiers for doing whatever is neccesary to win battles and save lives. How does this surprise anyone?

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| 2004-12-28 10:30:20 PM|| Front Page Top

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