Article

2005-06-23 Europe

Eurofighter a shooting star in clash with US jets

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Posted by True German Ally 2005-06-23 07:45|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 the two F-15E fighters.
The 15E is the two seat fighter bomber version, not the pure dogfighter. 15's are getting old and the Eurofighter is state of the art. Anyway, it all comes down to the man in the cockpit.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2005-06-23 08:25|| 2005-06-23 08:25|| Front Page Top

#2 Maybe. But never underestimate your adversary, that what it comes down, too.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-06-23 08:30|| 2005-06-23 08:30|| Front Page Top

#3 And actually, the F-15 isn't even the world's best anymore anyway, much less the F-15E ...

Then again, this DOES show an interesting "other perspective" to our trend towards strike fighters at the expense of dogfighting ...

Posted by Edward Yee">Edward Yee 2005-06-23 08:32|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2005-06-23 08:32|| Front Page Top

#4 Fear the Royal Flying Corps.

Posted by Howard UK 2005-06-23 08:32|| 2005-06-23 08:32|| Front Page Top

#5 Also, even if they were playing "dogfight" the US planes would have been operating under some rather strict flight rules over the UK that wouldn't obtain in combat.

But yes, the F15E is not the top dogfighter and is old.

Posted by too true 2005-06-23 08:33|| 2005-06-23 08:33|| Front Page Top

#6 never underestimate the British in a war.

Posted by 2b 2005-06-23 08:38|| 2005-06-23 08:38|| Front Page Top

#7 Yes, yes. But, hey, if it was an F-22, the Brits would've never even seen them, just heard that radar had been locked on them!

Posted by BA">BA 2005-06-23 08:47|| 2005-06-23 08:47|| Front Page Top

#8 Lets see how the Chicom "MONTAIN EAGLE" JL's fare ags the Brits. The "Eagle" closely resembles an updated F-5 Tiger series.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2005-06-23 08:52|| 2005-06-23 08:52|| Front Page Top

#9 The Brits are damn good too. I'm glad we are on the same side. Our combined one-two punch can take out anyone.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-06-23 09:30|| 2005-06-23 09:30|| Front Page Top

#10 JosephMendiola, what's the JL series?

But yeah, good show, Howard UK and 2b. :)

BA, would they have even noticed? :D

This is why I'm glad that the future plan is for the UK and the US to both switch over to the F-35 JSF for commonality ...

Posted by Edward Yee">Edward Yee 2005-06-23 10:42|| 2005-06-23 10:42|| Front Page Top

#11 I dunno, I'm kind of skeptical of the value of this report. What were the rules and conditions? What were the pilots' training level?

As for that "best fighter in the world" stuff, well, the F-15 was built to be an interceptor. For a dogfight, the F-16 would be the more capable machine.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-06-23 10:53|| 2005-06-23 10:53|| Front Page Top

#12 Arguing over the wrong thing. Dogfights are glamorous but irrelevant. AWACS controlled theaters and stand-off weapons are what's dominating today. Soon it will be something else, but it won't be dogfights.

Posted by Marlowe 2005-06-23 11:34|| 2005-06-23 11:34|| Front Page Top

#13 Marlowe - you are right for small 2 on 2 ship formations. Fights involving hundreds of aircraft are different. The same thing was thought during the early days of Vietnam. Then, when there were more targets than missiles or the missiles missed, you were in a dogfight situation. Maneuverability is still very important, but is not seen very much because of the wonderful accuracy of our weapons and the small scale of the engagements today. If we fought China, we would see huge engagements and dogfights again.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-06-23 11:40|| 2005-06-23 11:40|| Front Page Top

#14 You'd see huge numbers of dead chinese pilots.

We in the UK aren't as crap as we look!

Posted by Ulereger Clavigum6227 2005-06-23 12:28|| 2005-06-23 12:28|| Front Page Top

#15 We in the UK aren't as crap as we look!

See post #9. You guys rock! US, UK, Germany, Israel have the best fighter pilots in the world.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-06-23 12:32|| 2005-06-23 12:32|| Front Page Top

#16 There is always going to be the need for a Dogfighter to get in close and hassle the bad guys.

The F-15 was developed as an air superiority (TopCap) platform and Bomb Truck. Made to kill from a distance with missiles. Or drop bombs.

Not to get within knife fighting distance and tangle in a furball. Which is more the forte of the F-16.

Congrats to the RAF!

Jack.

Posted by Jack Deth">Jack Deth 2005-06-23 12:44|| 2005-06-23 12:44|| Front Page Top

#17 We should expect to read more and more of these ans the F-22 build falls lower and lower.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-06-23 12:52|| 2005-06-23 12:52|| Front Page Top

#18 thank god for the british empire!

Posted by bk 2005-06-23 12:59|| 2005-06-23 12:59|| Front Page Top

#19 Did the Eurofighter fix bayonets on the nose?

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2005-06-23 13:01|| 2005-06-23 13:01|| Front Page Top

#20 Good for the UK. There's nothing wrong with having an ally that's ready, willing and able to fight.

Posted by Matt 2005-06-23 13:21|| 2005-06-23 13:21|| Front Page Top

#21 Agreed, Matt. While we could argue all day long about "what were the conditions, F16 vs. F15, etc.", at the end of the day, we're on the same side and I look forward to many years of joint operations together. Now, about those German pilots..... (and how are the Aussies? Love having them as allies).

Posted by BA">BA 2005-06-23 13:45|| 2005-06-23 13:45|| Front Page Top

#22 First the Indians, now the Brits... what's going on?!? Send'em back to Top Gun school.

Posted by Rafael 2005-06-23 14:52|| 2005-06-23 14:52|| Front Page Top

#23 Rafael ---> I read a report on the Indian engagment. Our planes were restricted on top speed, started in inferior positioning, etc as well as and a few other things. It wasn't a straight out fight.
As for the Brits...nice job. If the US gets a piece of humble pie, as stated, is good that it's
from a strong ally. It boosts confidence on the British side in their equipment and teaches a valuable lesson to "hot shot" air jocks on our side. They should thank those Brit pilots. In combat, the results would have been far less forgiving.

Posted by 98zulu 2005-06-23 16:37|| 2005-06-23 16:37|| Front Page Top

#24 Obviously this was an unfair engagement - they had a big chunk of concrete to balance their bird, heh.

;-)

Posted by .com 2005-06-23 16:57|| 2005-06-23 16:57|| Front Page Top

#25 There is a lot of nationalistic rah-rah in this story, and no attributed source. How do we know it came down like this? How do we know the intentions of the US pilots, Brit-hack clairvoyance notwithstanding? For that matter, how do we know that it happened at all?
The writer is certainly not very well informed in the areas we can check. As others have mentioned, the F-15, designed around 1970, probably isn't the top fighter in the world and is certainly not regarded as such by informed observers. The F-15E is not even the top version for this sort of thing. The "Eurofighter" was renamed Typhoon several years ago.
The Typhoon program is under some fiscal pressure. The lefty unions fear unemployment in spite of their peacenik principles, and they have good contacts with anti-American shills in the
bigoted Brit media.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2005-06-23 17:27|| http://www.nuclearspace.com]">[http://www.nuclearspace.com] 2005-06-23 17:27|| Front Page Top

#26 Same thing happens when F15s and F16s dogfight.

Posted by ed 2005-06-23 17:38|| 2005-06-23 17:38|| Front Page Top

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