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2006-12-15 Home Front: WoT

Chinese-Canadian indicted in alleged plot to sell U.S. military secrets

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Posted by .com 2006-12-15 02:41|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 the game against Golden Dragon HS has already begun, whether officially acknowledged or not

Unlike Japan, where we had an actual military engagement, communist China has gone directly to the economic warfare phase of the battle. The Chinese politburo is doing everything possible to circumvent all known laws and diplomatic conventions in advancing its own cause. This is a precise duplicate of the Cold War with Soviet Russia, right down to our opponents near-religious indoctrination. The one crucial difference is that this time it is not the intense but misplaced zealotry of Marxism, but one of the oldest racial memories on earth. This is no joke. The cultural arrogance of Chinas elite makes the USSR's military smugness look like a schoolyard bully's swaggering bravado.

For a quick review of the uphill climb that China faces, please scan posts #2 and #13 in the "Most lakes in China now are wrecked" thread posted last Friday. Post #13 explicitly deals with both Chinese espionage and, to a lesser degree, the military implications of how China is destroying America's industrial base. Recommended reading includes the short five page 2006 report titled, "Hearing on Chinese Military Modernization and Export Control Regimes", made before The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission. Post #13 in the "China Lakes" thread contains some important excerpts.

It's not only a threat to the economic value of the products being produced, but in some cases it's a threat to our national security and military infrastructure."

This is an understatement. The network centric shift of America's military makes it highly dependent upon laptop computers and, increasingly, DRAM (Dynamic Random Access Memory) integrated circuits produced outside of our borders, more specifically, in China. A silicon foundry's production line cannot be jump-started overnight like other ordinary manufacturing processes. Gaining control over defect sensitivity and contamination issues that affect baseline yields requires time consuming, lengthy feedback loops of reject analysis and corrective measures. Quickly reverting to domestic production of such critical microelectronic components is not an option. Such fabrication expertise and in-place capital equipment are extremely costly to assemble and cannot just be thrown together at a moment's notice. Modern fab-lines cost billions of dollars to construct and can take the better part of a year to get running.

Considering China's across-the-board impact upon almost every single aspect of American manufacturing, their ravaging of our economy can only be considered some sort of military assault. Our politicians are so beholden to campaign contributions from those who do business with China that they are nearly blind to the implications involved.

For some insight regarding how China tilts the playing field, please read the "China Shipping" thread from last Tuesday. Untold millions of Chinese subsidized international shipping containers are literally abandoned in America with no profitable way of returning them. This is a prime indicator of how unidirectional trade is with communist China. The massive hemorrhage of American wealth flowing into Chinese hands is matched in danger only by Middle Eastern petro-dollars being put towards terrorist causes. China is arming itself with the money we, their principal trading partner, send it. The crimes of Muslim terrorists, by terrorism's very nature, are far more sensational than the slow, steady Chinese water torture of economic erosion we experience here. China is such a past master of misdirection and misinformation as to make the KGB look like so many slackers.

Consider the tremendous danger represented by China's triangulation against us involving both North Korea and Iran's nuclear programs. The polituburo laughs up their silk sleeves at the West's futile attempts to negotiate with Kim il Sung and Ahmadinejad. All the while, we spend billions of dollars combating the repercussions of just these two aggressors.

As .com notes, the war with China has already begun. They represent one of the last true threats to the ascendancy of democratic rule. Our one saving grace is that the communist Mandarins have built themselves a house of cards that teeters on the precipice of economic, environmental and societal disaster. One puff of American resolve in the face of Chinas threat could collapse their shambling lean-to almost overnight. Sadly, our politicians are so beholden to direct or indirect Chinese interests that we are being sold down the proverbial Yangtze River. A quick trade boycott of China could push them over the edge into economic ruin in a matter of weeks. This will not remain the case for long as China rushes to normalize its currently out-of-control parameters.

We most certainly cannot adopt a wait-and-see attitude. Europe is on the verge of succumbing to the lure of Chinese money being dangled in front of them for advanced military hardware. Our own trade imbalance will finance such purchases. China must be made to pay the piper before they can well and truly afford it. That window of opportunity is closing rapidly and along with it Americas well-earned and just status as this globes sole superpower.

Do not be fooled by the outward trappings of capitalism, free market reforms and quasi-democratic leanings in China. These are permitted only so much as they continue to serve the politburos aims and goals. They will just as cheerfully crush any rebellion or opposition should it arise. So long as the Chinese people see their country rise in prestige and continue to satisfy their national longing for cultural ascendancy, little internal confrontation will occur. Any corrections are up to America and, at present, our political will seems to be failing on so many fronts that prospects for the future are quite grim.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 05:24|| 2006-12-15 05:24|| Front Page Top

#2 So, China intends to be a superpower. Can anybody resonable expect them not to?

Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-15 05:46|| 2006-12-15 05:46|| Front Page Top

#3 So, China intends to be a superpower. Can anybody reasonably expect them not to?

yeah me.

/channeling Stillwell

Posted by peanut 2006-12-15 05:54|| 2006-12-15 05:54|| Front Page Top

#4 So, China intends to be a superpower. Can anybody resonable expect them not to?

A superpower? No. Another communist superpower like Soviet Russia? No sane person should be willing to countenance such a prospect. We do not, repeat DO NOT, need a rerun of Marxist Stalinism's rise and fall. How many more millions must be thrust into the meat grinder of socialist planned economies to prove this?

The Global War on Terrorism is consuming enough precious blood and treasure as it stands. Do we really need the expense and global millstone of a Cold War redux to teach what we should have learned in spades from the first one? Do we have the collective memory and attention span of a damned fruit fly? (Don't answer that.)

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 06:16|| 2006-12-15 06:16|| Front Page Top

#5 (1) China is not an enemy of USA, it's a rival. Do take the trouble to understand the difference.
(2) Chinese are motivated by nationalism, not communism.
(3) If you look at history, the current situation of one dominant superpower cannot last---nature abhor vacuum. And this is a good thing because competition is good for everyone concerned.
(4) Competition is especially good for USA. It's your ability to outcompete others that made you a superpower.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-15 06:33|| 2006-12-15 06:33|| Front Page Top

#6 And, pray tell, how exactly does one manage to "outcompete" a ruthless and incorrigible cheater? Rivalry only happens on a level playing field. When the pitch is tilted, then it becomes a matter of predation, like any other rigged game. Arguing otherwise merely exposes a gaping inability to comprehend reality. China's incessant outright piracy of copyrighted materials and intellectual property are glaring violations of the ethical minimums required to qualify as an honest player on the world stage. Granting them the least credibility is to validate the very worst business practices and condone what essentially amounts to economic extortion.

So long as China's national face is communist, it is the enemy of mankind. If communism specifically and socialism in general have not taught you this one single lesson, you are impenetrable, condescending attitude notwithstanding.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 07:06|| 2006-12-15 07:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Xiaodong Sheldon Meng, 42??

Is that like Fielding Wang Melish?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-12-15 08:05|| 2006-12-15 08:05|| Front Page Top

#8 how exactly does one manage to "outcompete" a ruthless and incorrigible cheater?

The Soviets were not ruthless and incorrigible cheaters?

We can wait and see with China because time is not on their side, nor are the Indians. They are envious rivals, but they would do well to look at the results of others tangling with the U. S.; Britain, Germany, Japan and Russia. It doesn't make sense for them to pick a fight, just to get rich. And if you're really worried about a DRAM drought, specify Micron DRAM in all your electronic purchases.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-12-15 08:25|| 2006-12-15 08:25|| Front Page Top

#9 Rivals are nothing more than future enemies. Make no mistake, China is doing everything it can to beat us without open warfare. But if it comes to blows, they are doing their best to make sure they come out on top. Stolen tech, spying, electronic warfare and economic warfare is already being waged on the US. Mr. Zu's methods are alive and well and working for them and a lot of funds are going into protecting our military electronic infrastructure from the Chinese.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2006-12-15 09:25|| 2006-12-15 09:25|| Front Page Top

#10 Zenster, with all due respect, I can't agree with you.

"#1 the game against Golden Dragon HS has already begun, whether officially acknowledged or not"

As gromgoru pointed out, China is a rival not an enemy. Actually I wouldn't go that far. China is a complement to the US. The sooner they realize that the better it will be for both sides. Just read Adam Smith on division of labor.
New and high technology has contributed tremendously to the growth of US economy in recent years. The U.S. has eliminated some of the labor-intensified manufacturing sectors of low added value, and it has worked hard to expand its service trade. China has, in its process of globalization, taken up in a huge way the general manufacturing industry, which has been transferred by globalization . Meanwhile, it is universally acknowledged that the China-made products are cheap and of good quality to American consumers. At the time when the overall US trade deficit is on rise, it is not difficult to understand that its China trade deficit grows accordingly.

"Unlike Japan, where we had an actual military engagement, communist China has gone directly to the economic warfare phase of the battle. The Chinese politburo is doing everything possible to circumvent all known laws and diplomatic conventions in advancing its own cause. This is a precise duplicate of the Cold War with Soviet Russia, right down to our opponents near-religious indoctrination."

That's over the top. There is no comparison with the USSR, mainly because goods from the USSR were shit.

" The one crucial difference is that this time it is not the intense but misplaced zealotry of Marxism, but one of the oldest racial memories on earth. This is no joke. The cultural arrogance of Chinas elite makes the USSR's military smugness look like a schoolyard bully's swaggering bravado."

China has a lot to be smug about.

"For a quick review of the uphill climb that China faces, please scan posts #2 and #13 in the "Most lakes in China now are wrecked" thread posted last Friday. Post #13 explicitly deals with both Chinese espionage and, to a lesser degree, the military implications of how China is destroying America's industrial base. Recommended reading includes the short five page 2006 report titled, "Hearing on Chinese Military Modernization and Export Control Regimes", made before The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission. Post #13 in the "China Lakes" thread contains some important excerpts.

If you are saying that China has internal problems, of that there is no doubt. Environmental degregation is widespread. Air pollution is chronic in the south. But they are openly discussing how to solve the problem in all the media, newspapers, TV and the internet.

It's not only a threat to the economic value of the products being produced, but in some cases it's a threat to our national security and military infrastructure."

This is an understatement. The network centric shift of America's military makes it highly dependent upon laptop computers and, increasingly, DRAM (Dynamic Random Access Memory) integrated circuits produced outside of our borders, more specifically, in China. A silicon foundry's production line cannot be jump-started overnight like other ordinary manufacturing processes. Gaining control over defect sensitivity and contamination issues that affect baseline yields requires time consuming, lengthy feedback loops of reject analysis and corrective measures. Quickly reverting to domestic production of such critical microelectronic components is not an option. Such fabrication expertise and in-place capital equipment are extremely costly to assemble and cannot just be thrown together at a moment's notice. Modern fab-lines cost billions of dollars to construct and can take the better part of a year to get running.

Considering China's across-the-board impact upon almost every single aspect of American manufacturing, their ravaging of our economy can only be considered some sort of military assault.

Not so.
Just look at the concept of comparative advantage

Our politicians are so beholden to campaign contributions from those who do business with China that they are nearly blind to the implications involved.

For some insight regarding how China tilts the playing field, please read the "China Shipping" thread from last Tuesday. Untold millions of Chinese subsidized international shipping containers are literally abandoned in America with no profitable way of returning them. This is a prime indicator of how unidirectional trade is with communist China. The massive hemorrhage of American wealth flowing into Chinese hands is matched in danger only by Middle Eastern petro-dollars being put towards terrorist causes. China is arming itself with the money we, their principal trading partner, send it. The crimes of Muslim terrorists, by terrorism's very nature, are far more sensational than the slow, steady Chinese water torture of economic erosion we experience here. China is such a past master of misdirection and misinformation as to make the KGB look like so many slackers.

China's surplus with the US is vastly overblown.

China is a transactional manufacturing country. Take for example, the sale of a woolen good by China to the US.
Chances are they bought their wool from Australia along with the gas and oil to generate the power to manufacture the good in the factory. Chinese government public owned electricity is shocking, so each factory has to produce their own along with that they may have multi-million dollar machines from say, Korea, the US and Germany. So the product that end up in the US will only return China say 10% or at most 20% The rest is globalised amongst numerous countries. Puts the scaremongering about the trade deficit in a new light, doesn't it?

"Consider the tremendous danger represented by China's triangulation against us involving both North Korea and Iran's nuclear programs. The polituburo laughs up their silk sleeves at the West's futile attempts to negotiate with Kim il Sung and Ahmadinejad. All the while, we spend billions of dollars combating the repercussions of just these two aggressors.

As .com notes, the war with China has already begun. They represent one of the last true threats to the ascendancy of democratic rule. Our one saving grace is that the communist Mandarins have built themselves a house of cards that teeters on the precipice of economic, environmental and societal disaster. One puff of American resolve in the face of Chinas threat could collapse their shambling lean-to almost overnight. Sadly, our politicians are so beholden to direct or indirect Chinese interests that we are being sold down the proverbial Yangtze River. A quick trade boycott of China could push them over the edge into economic ruin in a matter of weeks. This will not remain the case for long as China rushes to normalize its currently out-of-control parameters.

The main benefit of China is their position on the food chain.
They are top of the ladder of third world countries, so by definition, any Muslim country that want to move up the food chain has to jump over China.
That's not going to happen. They have their niche, and they need the US. Any other country that wants to get close to the US has to move China out of the way.
So our best defense against the Muslims are the Chinese, because it's in their interest to keep them on the bottom of the feeding chain

"We most certainly cannot adopt a wait-and-see attitude. Europe is on the verge of succumbing to the lure of Chinese money being dangled in front of them for advanced military hardware. Our own trade imbalance will finance such purchases. China must be made to pay the piper before they can well and truly afford it. That window of opportunity is closing rapidly and along with it Americas well-earned and just status as this globes sole superpower."

The United States and China are the biggest trade partners and they should look after they own best interests. The last thing they should worry about is trade surpluses. China is upgrading of its industries in order to expand its domestic consumption, they should also invest in high tech industries in the US, Just sas US companies are moving in , on a big way, on the Chinese services sectors(where they have a surplus) such as banking and insurance.
At the same time, the United States also needs to makemoves on bilateral trade by the means of extending service trade and lifting bans and restrictions on its high-tech export to China, so as to maintain the healthy growth of bilateral trade. If they don't the Europeans will fill the vacuum.

"Do not be fooled by the outward trappings of capitalism, free market reforms and quasi-democratic leanings in China. These are permitted only so much as they continue to serve the politburos aims and goals. They will just as cheerfully crush any rebellion or opposition should it arise. So long as the Chinese people see their country rise in prestige and continue to satisfy their national longing for cultural ascendancy, little internal confrontation will occur. Any corrections are up to America and, at present, our political will seems to be failing on so many fronts that prospects for the future are quite grim."

That's a subject for another time.

Posted by tipper 2006-12-15 10:36|| 2006-12-15 10:36|| Front Page Top

#11 Tipper! A hat Tip to you.

Posted by Besoeker 2006-12-15 10:40|| 2006-12-15 10:40|| Front Page Top

#12 the game against Golden Dragon HS has already begun, whether officially acknowledged or not

LOL, now that's really funny

Don't F@@K with the Wongs! - Wanderers 1979

But the sad thing is China has been running spies out of silicon valley and Nevada for years and the neglect and ignorant compliance is criminal

Posted by Dunno 2006-12-15 12:24|| 2006-12-15 12:24|| Front Page Top

#13 #6
Enemy is somebody who wants you dead---no matter the costs e.g. Muslims vs. humans.

Rival is somebody who wants the same things you do. And is willing to compromise.

Incidentally, except for the guy's ethnic origins, where's the Chinese connection in the article?

p.s. When an American defense firm accuses a foreign national, former employee of stilling secrets, I for one would think twice re whose intellectual property the info was.
Hint, american firms don't hire foreigners unless they're damn good (look up INS form I-129).

Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-15 13:39|| 2006-12-15 13:39|| Front Page Top

#14 gromgoru are you an AMERICAN?

Posted by RD 2006-12-15 13:53|| 2006-12-15 13:53|| Front Page Top

#15 Really RD, I'm shocked. Don't you read my posts?

Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-15 13:57|| 2006-12-15 13:57|| Front Page Top

#16 gromgoru, I was a little hot after reading some of the comments so I wanted to make sure.

I'm going to cool off a bit before i follow up...

Posted by RD 2006-12-15 14:01|| 2006-12-15 14:01|| Front Page Top

#17 At the same time, the United States also needs to makemoves on bilateral trade by the means of extending service trade and lifting bans and restrictions on its high-tech export to China, so as to maintain the healthy growth of bilateral trade. If they don't the Europeans will fill the vacuum.

tipper, nowhere do you address China's habitual theft of intellectual property or violation of copyright laws. For America alone, these acts represent an annual loss of billions of dollars. If you bothered to read the "Hearing on Chinese Military Modernization and Export Control Regimes", you would see that not only are export restrictions on high technology to China being circumvented but that they represent a major concern in terms of national security. You ignore the wisdom of retaining our own manufacturing base in favor of abandoning it like Europe is so ready to do.

Neither do you account for the huge uptick in China's military expenditures. If our relationship is so peaceful, why the massive acquisition of modernized weapons needed to fight another superpower? Tibet has already been absorbed and China continues to make rumblings from the Kuril Islands to the Spratleys. Especially worrisome is China's attitude regarding one of Asia's few functional democracies, namely Taiwan. The communists are salivating in their sleep, dreaming of how to rape that little industrial powerhouse. A common Taiwanese saying refers to outsourcing manufacturing to China as: "Feeding the tiger with one's own flesh." Note how all promises of autonomy for Hong Kong seem to have fallen off of the table. Freedom of speech and other basic rights have been curtailed. None of this bodes well for Taiwan. In your analysis, you evidently give all of this a pass.

Moreover, you also seem to cast aside critical issues within China itself that represent significant violations of human rights. The world's largest medically caused AIDS epidemic is a good starting point. Medical activists like Wang Zhi are arrested for publicly confronting the government over this travesty. Furthermore, China has attempted to extort favorable pricing on AIDS medications from Western pharmaceutical houses by threatening to circumvent patents and reverse-engineer the drugs themselves. The upshot has been domestically produced copycat drugs of such shoddy manufacture that patients abandon medication due to side effects worse than the disease itself. There are villages in Henan province with infection rates topping 65%. Yet, far too little has been done so late in the game that the politburo has needlessly guaranteed a monstrous pandemic that will kill millions. Do not think for one minute that this scourge will contain itself within Chinas borders.

Let us also not forget the SARS outbreak. In a brazen attempt to protect tourist revenue, Chinas suppression of any news concerning this crisis only magnified the epidemics scope, causing its spread to other countries. Canada alone suffered a major downturn in Asian tourism resulting in millions of lost dollars. That is just one country. Multiply the ramifications on a global scale and Chinas greedy reluctance to issue timely health alerts cost untold billions of dollars. Once again we see Chinas poor regulation of industrial hygiene at the center of an avian flu outbreak that has required the precautionary slaughter of millions of animals around the globe. Chinas refusal to divert top-heavy military spending toward more pressing civilian issues continues to burden our entire world with costly epidemics.

Your glowing assessment of Chinas prospects does not square with its massive drain upon the global economy. China is a thief turned economic gangster. Any further coddling of their communist kleptocracy will only embolden further incursions, both economic and military. Far better would be to improve trade relations with India than continue this parasitic relationship with China.

And if you're really worried about a DRAM drought, specify Micron DRAM in all your electronic purchases.

I used to perform fundamental R&D on million dollar CVD (Chemical Vapor Deposition) blanket tungsten reactors used by Micron. The company is literally subsidized by our government in order to retain a domestic DRAM manufacturing base. Much like Planar and their production of color plasma displays.

Incidentally, except for the guy's ethnic origins, where's the Chinese connection in the article?

gromgoru, did you even bother to read the article? How about if you purchase a clue as follows:

Prosecutors said Mr. Meng stole the code for software made by his former employer, Quantum3D Inc., that's used to train military fighter pilots and tried to sell it to the Royal Thai Air Force, the Royal Malaysian Air Force and a company with ties to China's military.

As for this bit of rubbish:

p.s. When an American defense firm accuses a foreign national, former employee of stilling secrets, I for one would think twice re whose intellectual property the info was.
Hint, american firms don't hire foreigners unless they're damn good (look up INS form I-129).

You seem to condone employee theft of intellectual property if they have contributed to its creation. I'd advise you against ever trying this in America. Massive penalties and real jail time are the frequent upshot of doing so. Your questioning of this vital contract between employer and employee demonstrates a distinct lack of ethics and moral integrity. Much like China shows when they wink at entire provinces pirating copied software.

Plus, your attempts to distinguish between enemy and rival are pathetically misguided. Someone who steals your material possessions is taking your life, if only an incremental part of it. Time is money. Such theft is still a form of slowly killing someone. The same goes for China. Their predation upon our economy destroys jobs and renders American people homeless. They are stealing our lives one Wal-Mart purchase at a time. I can only assume from your foregoing statements that your morals are flexible enough to ignore this simple fact.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 14:49|| 2006-12-15 14:49|| Front Page Top

#18 China is not an enemy of USA, it's a rival. Do take the trouble to understand the difference.

You have in eighteen words, just proven conclusively that you're an idiot. China believes themselves to be our enemy, why do you not?

The U.S. has any number of rivals on many different levels. None present as veiled a threat as China. Islam has made clear their intentions overtly, China less so, that so many choose to pretend it isn't real is where the real tragedy lies.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-12-15 15:53|| 2006-12-15 15:53|| Front Page Top

#19 The Soviets were not ruthless and incorrigible cheaters?

Who said they weren't? America had a solid trade embargo against the USSR that helped choke the crap out of their totally artificial economy. Grain was sold to them only because our modernized agriculture produced far more than we could ever consume. We do not have any such protection from China's ravages and they laugh at our idiocy all the way to the bank.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 16:19|| 2006-12-15 16:19|| Front Page Top

#20 The Soviets were not ruthless and incorrigible cheaters?

Of course they were, they just weren't as good at as the Chinese are. Also, Soviet made stuff was/is crap, at least the Chinese can copy things effectively.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-12-15 16:23|| 2006-12-15 16:23|| Front Page Top

#21 Well, we did manage to outcompete the Soviets. We will do likewise with the Chinese.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-12-15 16:28|| 2006-12-15 16:28|| Front Page Top

#22 I'll certainly try to admire your optimism, NS, despite how misplaced I consider it to be. Attempting to defeat Chinese communism by throwing vast sums of money at it is like putting out a fire with gasoline. Without precipitating some sort of catalytic circumstance (e.g., the Soviets bankrupting themselves trying to compete in the SDI arms race), it is far less likely that we will see any catastrophic breakdown in China. Most of the disastrous tipping points I noted in the "China Lakes" thread can be, and are being, overcome through massive financial outlay.

America still has a huge chance in developing commercial applications for nanotechnology, quantum dot materials and MEMS (Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems). These three scientific frontiers represent some of the few avenues left whereby we can regain an insurmountable technological lead over our opponents. Our government had best learn to shelter and nurture these golden geese as the flock has gotten mighty thin of late.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 17:36|| 2006-12-15 17:36|| Front Page Top

#23 Zenster, your gloom and doom perspective on China is a bit over the top IMO. Yes, they do engage in industrial and military espionage which is something we need to stop and they don't protect copywrite laws, another thing we can focus upon. But their economy and the average well being of their population gets better every year. That is not something that the Mandarins in their silk boxers are going to risk and not something that the people are going to let them risk. We were never intertwined with the Soviets. Theirs was a closed society. We are very intertwined with the Chinese and becoming more so every year. This too reduces the chance of overt conflict. Sorry, I'm much more wound up about goat herders that want to kill me and enslave my daughters for their moon-god than I am about the cunning Chinee.

Posted by remoteman 2006-12-15 18:28|| 2006-12-15 18:28|| Front Page Top

#24 IMHO Zen is over the top a bit, but his point that strategic commodities need to have a domestic production capacity in the event of shutoff by foreign "opponents" is well taken. Same is true of energy resources....

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-12-15 19:51|| 2006-12-15 19:51|| Front Page Top

#25 ASIA TIMES > DENG XIAOPING > Need universal "material abundance" before achieving SOCIALISM, then must achieve SOCIALISM before achieving COMMUNISM. UTOPIANISM???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-12-15 21:26|| 2006-12-15 21:26|| Front Page Top

#26 Further note: This traitorous bastard has been released on $500,000 bail. How did he cough up $50,000 and where did it come from? Shouldn't arrestees charged with espionage be held without bail?

Fei Ye and Ming Zhong, caught boarding a flight from SFO to China had checked luggage crammed with thousands of pages of trade secrets stolen from the Silicon Valley offices of NEC, Sun Microsystems, Transmeta and Trident Microsystems are also out on bail.

These two had planned to start a microprocessor fabrication company with financial backing from various communist Chinese government agencies. One can only ponder just how deeply China looked into their qualifications as chip designers, not to mention if they even had any functional block diagrams to begin with.

I'll ask that you consider exactly why .com placed thius article in the WoT section of Rantburg. Yes, I've gone to considerable lengths to show just how corrupt China is. That corruption costs the USA and many other countries billions of dollars every year. How can this be considered responsible conduct, or at least not meriting some sort of retaliation?

I've also tried to point up how China is a strong patron of terrorism sponsoring nations and rogue regimes like North Korea. The cost to China is minimal, yet the impact upon America and the West is intensely leveraged. For pennies on the dollar, China keeps us chasing our tails while they make steady progress against us. I find this to be unacceptable, even if others do not.

Let's add:

Yes, they do engage in industrial and military espionage which is something we need to stop and they don't protect copywrite laws, another thing we can focus upon.

to:

his point that strategic commodities need to have a domestic production capacity in the event of shutoff by foreign "opponents" is well taken. Same is true of energy resources....

What do you get? It adds up to active erosion of the very industries that have proven critical to our national security. Yet, this is dismissed as being "over the top."

You may think so, but this is terrorism waged on an altogether different scale. Just China's capital flow to Iran represents triangulation on a huge scale. That money builds nuclear weapons which may one day possibly be used to topple America's economy. This isn't "doom and gloom", it's a solid and quite likely scenario.

China has no qualms because, unlike us, they are completely prepared to glass over the entire Middle East if it gets the least bit squiffy with them. Our restraint poses another outcome entirely and one that is nowhere near as favorable.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-15 21:45|| 2006-12-15 21:45|| Front Page Top

#27 IMO

I think Zen hit allot of good points but I'll simply add ...

Korea and Vietnam aside..

Given the ChiComs record of expansionism in the 20th & 21th century [at it's margins] and enforcement of serf like status for their citizens I'm not about to consider Communist China anything but they are until they establish a real record of Democracy and human rights.

It's up to them to prove in deed over time. I'll have to see it to believe it. A communist country like Russia/USSR can turn back on us on a dime.

To call the ChiComs just rivals is incredible naive at best.

gromgoru I do hope you weren't left with the impression that I was impugning your patriotism; I was judging your assesment of the ChiComs.

Posted by RD 2006-12-15 23:44|| 2006-12-15 23:44|| Front Page Top

23:57 Barbara Skolaut
23:55 Swamp Blondie
23:49 Barbara Skolaut
23:44 RD
23:37 Barbara Skolaut
23:30 Free Radical
22:50 trailing wife
22:46 Old Patriot
22:35 Eric Jablow
22:30 Free Radical
22:25 Zenster
22:23 tu3031
22:18 C-Low
22:16 Thinemp Whimble2412
22:10 Thinemp Whimble2412
22:02 Thinemp Whimble2412
21:59 Glalet Phereger3214
21:45 Zenster
21:34 Anonymoose
21:29 Redneck Jim
21:26 JosephMendiola
21:26 Frank G
21:20 trailing wife
21:20 JosephMendiola