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2006-12-18 Home Front: WoT
Thinkable?: Wage Genocide War Against Muslims
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Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2006-12-18 06:33|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 All Moslems? Including the Kurds? And the Iranians who oppose the mullahs? And Hamed Karzai? And Steven Vincent's translator, Nour Weidi? And Mohammed Odeh al-Rehaief, the guy who helped free Jessica Lynch? And the Afghans who helped that wounded SEAL escape and evade? And Major Showali? And the Iraqi police and military who are standing up to the insurgents? And the families of the people in Saddam's mass graves? And the judges who are sending him to the noose? And the women of Saudi Arabia, who are essentially chattel slaves?

The devil sends his lies into the world in pairs so that, fleeing one, we might embrace its counterpart.

The Jimmy Carter approach (embrace the terrorists and kill of the Israelis) is evil. The James Baker approach (make deals with the devil) is evil. The Michael Moore-Andrew Sullivan moonbat approach (pay no attention to those bomb-toting jihadis over there--the real enemy are the eeeevil Christianist breeder capitalists!) is evil. We all see that quite clearly. In fleeing these lies, let us not embrace their counterpart.
Posted by Mike 2006-12-18 09:38||   2006-12-18 09:38|| Front Page Top

#2 Muslims cannot and will not peacefully coexist with their fellow men. As long as the central tenet of their religion is world domination, they are the blood enemies of the West. If they are willing to let us live unmolested then fine. If not, better they die than us. There must be consequences for actions. If they continue to wage war on the US, the US must wage war fully and completely against them
Posted by Random Thoughts 2006-12-18 10:12||   2006-12-18 10:12|| Front Page Top

#3 Bravo, Mike, my thoughts as well.

Kurds seem like an honorable people. And there are plenty of Iranians who would like to see the Mad Mullahs™ swinging from a rope. Plenty of moderate Indonesians (who need to step on their crazy cousins but that's another post). And look at the Afghans who are working with us against the Taliban -- they know the score, they've been there.

Genocide is unacceptable. Always. Completely. We're going to win the war against the jihadis, and we're not going to sell our souls as we do so.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-12-18 10:13||   2006-12-18 10:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Before going ballistic over this article, I suggest reading it first. Vanderleun is NOT advocating genocide against Muslims; far from it. In fact, he says,
"This is why I still deeply believe that the current effort in Iraq and the Middle East to counter and expunge Islamic terrorism and turn Islam from the road it is on towards one of reformation and assimilation is the best path that can be taken at this time. Indeed, for all the ineptitude of the current administration, for all the expense in treasure and lives, this shoot-the-moon, Hail Mary of a foreign policy in Iraq is not just a policy to make America safer at home. It is the only thing that stands between Islam and its own destruction."
He's not arguing for genocide; he's warning that given the history of the West, de facto genocide may well be the outcome if our present efforts fail, and Islamic extremists eventually succeed in pulling off another mass-casualty terrorist attack here (or in Europe).
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-12-18 10:20||   2006-12-18 10:20|| Front Page Top

#5 "The devil sends his lies into the world in pairs so that, fleeing one, we might embrace its counterpart."

Much the way I see it - Islam is merely a "cab off the rank" of those waiting to take us to global domination. Still at the rank, but with engines running, are those heading for "Dominionist / Reconstructionist" forms of legalism, seeking to place the world under Old Testament law; or those "enlightened" ones who would subject us to "Natural Law / Universal Law" (New Age) who would wipe us out if we resist.

Islam is doomed (Gog - Magog / Yajuj wa Majuj) - al Qiyamah - no need to wage genocide against it, no matter how tempting it is, in response to the RoP's constant, multi-pronged attacks on the West.
Posted by Whiskettes4Hilali 2006-12-18 10:26||   2006-12-18 10:26|| Front Page Top

#6 People think this way when they abridge consideration of the fact that Muslims can be de-programed.

De-program 1.5 Billion seething Mohammedans? Not likely. Why should we anyway? I'm for exterminating them.
Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-12-18 10:35||   2006-12-18 10:35|| Front Page Top

#7 A pedantic but not unimportant point: You cannot commit genocide against an ideology.
Posted by Excalibur 2006-12-18 10:41||   2006-12-18 10:41|| Front Page Top

#8 If they grow half a brain and stop pulling the bull's tail, they'll probably survive. But "jihad" has gotta go.
Posted by mojo">mojo  2006-12-18 10:43||   2006-12-18 10:43|| Front Page Top

#9 Time to brush up on Ezekiel 38 and 39 , I guess

:P
Posted by MacNails 2006-12-18 11:00||   2006-12-18 11:00|| Front Page Top

#10 Dave D.: it's not a new point; SDB and Wretchard were pointing this out from the beginning.
Posted by JSU 2006-12-18 11:07||   2006-12-18 11:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Excalibur is right: It isn't genocide if the determinant is not one's race, but one's religion.

Reaching for the race/genocide argument where it is not warranted shows a poverty of argument: rather than build a case from verifiable facts and being careful with one's terminology, the accuser gropes for some sort of hook or angle to spin the issue as a race issue. Everyone is opposed to true racism, just as people back in the 50's were opposed to communism, but the liberal slant on McCarthyism is that he was using accusations of people being communist as a cover for a private vendetta. Do not let the fact that McCarthy was partly right to obscure the fact that lefties project their behavior on others, and thus launching a baseless accusation of Racism to ignite a thoughtless lynch mob in order to get their way is already within their character to do.

"Genocide" is a deliberately misleading term. I believe "culticide" is the more appropriate one.
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2006-12-18 11:10|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2006-12-18 11:10|| Front Page Top

#12 Why are so many people keen to somehow save a "reformed" version of Islam?

Seriously. Would they propose to save a "reformed" version of Aztec human sacrifices? or save "reformed" Nazism?

I am convinced that Islam is a death cult -- based on Moslem scripture, their own interpretation, their millennial actions, and their modern thirst for WMD. There is no room for both Western civilization and Islam in a modern world. They know it and proclaim it.
Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2006-12-18 11:16||   2006-12-18 11:16|| Front Page Top

#13 What Ptah & Kalle said (in a much more urbane way than I could've managed).
Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-18 11:21||   2006-12-18 11:21|| Front Page Top

#14 In the conquests of the Americas, most locals were programed in the Roman Catholic dogma. In New England, Protestantism was adopted. Muslims convert from the disgruntled - non-assimilating African Americans, prisoners, bored middle class Caucasians - and by murder coercion: believe it or else.

Islam must be treated like Aztec Cannibalism, as beyond freedom of religion protections.

Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2006-12-18 11:46||   2006-12-18 11:46|| Front Page Top

#15 I'm not pro genocide, however I want to caution people on being too pro-Kurd.

The Kurds have established a relatively decent society in their portion of Iraq. However, they still discriminate against non Kurdish peoples (including some minority Christian groups) and have so skeletons in the historic closet.
Posted by mhw 2006-12-18 12:15|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]  2006-12-18 12:15|| Front Page Top

#16 If and when we get our own left wing to work with us, the BEST outcome we can possible hope for, and achieve a true peace over, is the end of the growth of Islam. That's the BEST outcome.
Now, what happened to the Christians of North Africa ? What happened to all the Jooos of the Arabian Peninsula ? Those peoples disappeared centuries ago. They were summarily dispatched by jihad.
So, some of you want to play for a tie.
I don't. I don't want to pass the struggle down to future generations.
Islam must go. The human race must shed cavemanism and move forward. Progress works, and slavery and population control do not work, under any dogma, under any name.
And, those 'moderate muslims' you speak of, are, to some degree, captured by Islam. We can accept defectors who denounce Islam and spit on the Snackbar floor. We can kidnap their young and de-program them. Complete genocide is not necessary to rid the world of Islam, but violence is necessary. Get used to it. Stop being a PC whimp.
Posted by wxjames 2006-12-18 13:42||   2006-12-18 13:42|| Front Page Top

#17 Latest skeletons in the historic closet being an active and enthusiatic role in the armenian genocide.
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-12-18 14:05||   2006-12-18 14:05|| Front Page Top

#18 WXJ,

Actually a lot of people believe that if Islam gives up executing apostates the religion would be defanged in one generation; and once defanged it would wither quickly. This belief is based on the writings of moslem secularists, apostates and believers.

Of course its easy to say and difficult to do but its not impossible.
Posted by mhw 2006-12-18 14:07|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]  2006-12-18 14:07|| Front Page Top

#19 The point of the article, as pointed out by others, is that we are headed inevitably toward a bifurcation point with Islam. And that includes the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly among its adherents.

Once the tipping point is reached the world of the "infidel" will either roll over and be slowly inviscerated. Or, Islam and its adherents will suffer a beat down that will make the Holocaust look like walk in the park.
Posted by anymouse">anymouse  2006-12-18 14:25||   2006-12-18 14:25|| Front Page Top

#20 "relentless demographic expansion of Islam"

Thats gonna slow down of its own accord. Total Fertility Rates have dropped in Tunisia, in Egypt, and even in Iran. Only place in the arab world where TFRs are staying stubbornly high is the Palestinian Territories, which is an annoyance for Israel, but not a demographic threat to the West as a whole. The main area where Muslims TFRs are staying is is Muslim Africa - a phenomenon that is similar to what is happening in most of non-Muslim Africa as well.

As for not assimilating, some of course are - look at the French muslim women who SUPPORT a ban on the veil, for example.

Of course some unfortunately are assimilating to the WORST aspects of Western culture, like Rap-gangsta culture, which seems to be alot of what is happening in the Banlieus of Paris.
Posted by liberalhawk 2006-12-18 15:30||   2006-12-18 15:30|| Front Page Top

#21 Check out this "final jihad" link. These Muslims don't want freedom. (AOL doesn't link well)

http://www.islamic-world.net/papers/jihad.htm
Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2006-12-18 15:51||   2006-12-18 15:51|| Front Page Top

#22  Only place in the arab world where TFRs are staying stubbornly high is the Palestinian Territories

Not so high as all that even there, liberalhawk. There's been a good deal of fiddling with the birth statistics on the part of the Palestinian Authority. Remember the "missing million Palestinians" thingy a while back? If I recall correctly, Palestinian mamas are having five or six offspring a piece these days, not the historical 7-9 per.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-12-18 15:53||   2006-12-18 15:53|| Front Page Top

#23 Why are so many people keen to somehow save a "reformed" version of Islam?

Seriously. Would they propose to save a "reformed" version of Aztec human sacrifices? or save "reformed" Nazism?

Look the question and answer is rather simple. Islam is in fact a desert cult built up around a terrorist teaching. It demands world enslavement at the penalty of death. In other words our genocide. The Dhimmis can lay down and die, the rest of us will do what we can.

Answer, close every single mosque on the planet. Hang every mullah that does not leave islam. Burn every copy of the quran.

It work in wiping out Thugism in India. Taking a clue from history is our only chance. And two such dates in history would be the Battle of Tours and 9-11.

Done, said.
Posted by Icerigger 2006-12-18 16:07||   2006-12-18 16:07|| Front Page Top

#24 Japan during WWII was a supremacist, Emperor-worshiping, militaristic violent cult. They launched an unprovoked attack on us. They treated POW's and local populations with cruel barbarism. In China they committed acts of unspeakable brutality.

Today modern Japan is a powerful ally, as well as an economic and cultural superpower. They've been at peace for 60 years. People change.
Posted by DMFD 2006-12-18 18:55||   2006-12-18 18:55|| Front Page Top

#25 "Excalibur is right: It isn't genocide if the determinant is not one's race, but one's religion."

Genocide has an expanded definition of nation as well as race. Islam portrays itself as one "ummah", which should qualify as a nation for the purpose of genocide (which I don't advocate anyway). It certainly needs to be defanged, however, and all "infidel" support for Islam & its agenda must cease. No more "uncovered meat" Imams, "leb-style" gang rapes, all-halal public schools or any of the cultural baggage that Islam brings.

However, Islam contains the seeds of its own destruction, if it does not deal with its own hotheads - it must accept that Islam is the cause of Islam's troubles, not the west or Israel, and Ahmadinejad's chosen course of destroying Israel is doomed to fail.

“The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom,” [Ahmadinejad]
Posted by Thuns Unetch7658 2006-12-18 19:44||   2006-12-18 19:44|| Front Page Top

#26  Japan during WWII was a supremacist, Emperor-worshiping, militaristic violent cult. They launched an unprovoked attack on us. They treated POW's and local populations with cruel barbarism. In China they committed acts of unspeakable brutality.

Today modern Japan is a powerful ally, as well as an economic and cultural superpower. They've been at peace for 60 years. People change.

The Japanese changed after a beat-down of Biblical proportions convinced the Emperor that to continue would mean no more Japanese.

There is no one in the Muslim world now to give such an order. The cult demands conversion or death of the whole world. The Jihadis represent the Reformation of Islam. Hard times are coming.
Posted by SR-71 2006-12-18 19:46||   2006-12-18 19:46|| Front Page Top

#27 We are on the path of half measures, appeasement and marking time until the attrocities perpetrated by the muslamifascists back the West up to a wall. At this point, vast numbers of muslims will die a horrible death.

Pacification will then ensue and a remarkable retreat of Islam will result.

What will be left of the West is the question? Fjordman, Steyn and others have expounded on the demographic decline of the Continent coupled with the migration of muslims promise huge changes in European society.

Ironically, Chirac's EU superstate may be the only thing that prevents many English, Swedes, French and Dutch from real dhimmitude. I predict Anglo-Saxons will be begging for the superstate in 20 years.

The great culling may occur any time from now to 2030 depending on how smart the islamofascists play it. If they're smart they'll stick to demographic conquest, but we all know they are incapable of playing nice so they will probably overstep sometime well before Europe falls (ap)peasefully.
Posted by Lanny Ddub 2006-12-18 20:00||   2006-12-18 20:00|| Front Page Top

#28 Another thing, if and when the time comes that every last muzzie is under a rock somewhere, we cannot step forward and demand that hostilities cease. We should demand an unconditional surrender from the muzzies, not a PC unilateral ceasefire.
No more PC, no more feeling good about yourself.
Feel secure knowing that the job is done.
Posted by wxjames 2006-12-18 20:04||   2006-12-18 20:04|| Front Page Top

#29 My comments from when this was posted yesterday:

Both bumbling groups may differ in the focus of their fretting, but fret they do. For the problem, as they have defined it, has to do with what is commonly stated as 'a statistically small group of Muslims around the world' who need to be dealt with in some manner so that greater Islam can get on with the historic task of being "a religion of peace and understanding."

Better known as the less desirable form of that proverbial “light at the end of the tunnel”.

Both positions, whether they focus on "giving" the benefits of the modern world to the West's Islamic populations spread out in its cities and nations, or "bringing" the same benefits to the center of Islamic mass in the Middle East, share the belief that Islam can be "fixed."

There’s that pesky light again. And it's still moving ...

It strikes me that a religion that doesn't view itself as broken is unlikely to take kindly to the notion that it needs fixing.

Maybe that explains the complete and total absence of any reformation.

What if, as has been repeatedly stated by Islamic spokesmen in their media and their capitols and their mosques, Islam has neither the interest in nor the capacity for assimilation?

Good question.

What if Islam continues, as it has for many centuries, to be implacably hostile to the West?
What if, in a series of increasingly violent incidents coming quickly over a relatively short number of years, what we so tenderly term "Islamic radicals" continue to attack the cities and nations in which large numbers of Muslims live in relative isolation from the body politic, and it is known that those attacking come from and fade back into these unassimilated populations?

This has already been happening for the past five years.

This society can even ride out the killing by weapons of mass destruction of any kind of a number of cities. America, Europe, and Western Civilization can survive anything the radical Islamists can throw at us.

Optimistic, but I'll roll with it.

The society that will have much more difficulty surviving with its cherished "values" intact will be what happens to the global society of Islam should it continue to attack the West with increasing ferocity.

Which is why Islam’s very survival hinges upon radical reformation and not any sort of gradual evolution.

A common catch phrase of Marxism is that "The capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him." I dread the coming catch phrase, "The Muslim will supply the West with the excuse to eradicate Islam," but that is clearly lurking in one of our possible futures; a future that although unthinkable is not inconceivable.

Unreformed Islam can no more reverse this than it can make rivers run uphill.

A second series of attacks on America at the level of 9/11 or greater will not bring out more B-52s. They are already out. A second series will bring out the one arm of America's war machine that has rarely been asked about, written about, or even mentioned in passing since September, 2001; the ballistic missile submarines.

With a barely audible hiss, the sword quietly slides from its scabbard.

But the cold fact is that should America or the West feel its way of life and the lives of its citizens are sufficiently threatened by Islam these weapons will, in the end, be used against the Muslim centers of mass; cities in the middle-east or elsewhere where Muslims are the majority of the population. This is not some "Strangelovian" fantasy, but a very real option on the table of realpolitik. If you think our ballistic missile submarines don't carry the targeting information for these cities, think again.

I wouldn’t dream of thinking otherwise. Thank goodness our military doesn’t either.

This is why I still deeply believe that the current effort in Iraq and the Middle East to counter and expunge Islamic terrorism and turn Islam from the road it is on towards one of reformation and assimilation is the best path that can be taken at this time. Indeed, for all the ineptitude of the current administration, for all the expense in treasure and lives, this shoot-the-moon, Hail Mary of a foreign policy in Iraq is not just a policy to make America safer at home. It is the only thing that stands between Islam and its own destruction.

I could not agree more.

Sometime shortly after 9/11 in an online forum I frequented then, an exasperated idealist proclaimed that "After all, you can't kill a billion Muslims." Like so many others he spoke from somewhere outside History. History, especially the world's most recent history, shows us all how wrong that statement is. The hard truth is rather that, "Yes, if you really want to, you can."

I could not agree more.

And that is the most terrible and terrorizing thought of the 21st century.

I could not disagree more. The “most terrible and terrorizing thought of the 21st century” is a half-dead world shackled and chained by the sharia law of a 7th century retrograde religion.

As to comments in today's thread:

Muslims cannot and will not peacefully coexist with their fellow men. As long as the central tenet of their religion is world domination, they are the blood enemies of the West. If they are willing to let us live unmolested then fine. If not, better they die than us. There must be consequences for actions. If they continue to wage war on the US, the US must wage war fully and completely against them.

Everything points towards Islam's steadfast refusal to reform. I feel it is a given that the only thing that can save Islam is radical reformation. Since that is even less likely, I give Islam incredibly poor odds.

He's not arguing for genocide; he's warning that given the history of the West, de facto genocide may well be the outcome if our present efforts fail, and Islamic extremists eventually succeed in pulling off another mass-casualty terrorist attack here (or in Europe).

Which is exactly what I also predict. Our current course of merely policing what requires total war will continue to give radical Islam enough bandwidth to pull off an atrocity of such dumbfounding magnitude that the only rational response will be a Muslim holocaust.

Unreformed Islam simply cannot and will not do anything to avoid this, as in how even the vast majority of supposedly moderate Muslims still continue to quietly cheer whenever the radicals slaughter more of the infidels. If that does not change, and change damn fast, Islam will bring about its own extermination.

De-program 1.5 Billion seething Mohammedans? Not likely. Why should we anyway? I'm for exterminating them.

We have ZERO obligation to deprogram Muslims. This is something that they had better see to themselves in short order. The time is rapidly approaching when the West will empty the tub of Islamist filth. If the moderate Muslim baby does not wish to be thrown out with the bathwater they had best start working on cleaning things up. Otherwise they'll be disposed of right along with their radical brethern.

"jihad" has gotta go.

Along with abject gender apartheid, capital punishment of apostasy, lack of religious freedom, female genital mutilation, amputation as a form of legal penalty and a host of other barbaric practices that constitutre so much of Islam's core that abandonment of such doctrine will happen when hell hosts the winter Olympics.

Why are so many people keen to somehow save a "reformed" version of Islam?

This is the actual question that most needs to be addressed. As .com so aptly put it in his "Absolute Moral Authority Code: Comanche" post a few days ago. What is Islam's saving grace? Someone tell me if they can. I see none and the continuous string of atrocities being committed by Muslims only cements that notion.

Islam must be treated like Aztec Cannibalism, as beyond freedom of religion protections.

Which is why I continue to agitate for elimination of Islam's status as a religion and the protections that go with it.

Complete genocide is not necessary to rid the world of Islam, but violence is necessary.

I still hold out hope that a few rounds of massively disproportionate retaliation might be able to turn Muslims against their terrorist masters. We need to implement this damn soon so that progress can be made beyond such intermediate steps. Time is wasting and I am not willing to wait around while Islam arms itself with nuclear weapons.

Actually a lot of people believe that if Islam gives up executing apostates the religion would be defanged in one generation

I'd like to think so but there are simply too many other unredeeming aspects (e.g., abject gender apartheid, amputation, FGM etc.), that militate against rejecting capital punishment of apostasy such a hot candidate as the prime mover in Islam's rescue. And, once again, what is there to "rescue" about Islamic doctrine?

Once the tipping point is reached the world of the "infidel" will either roll over and be slowly inviscerated. Or, Islam and its adherents will suffer a beat down that will make the Holocaust look like walk in the park.

Which is why I continue to predict a Muslim holocaust.

Why are so many people keen to somehow save a "reformed" version of Islam?

Face the question squarely.

People change.

The question remains whether Muslims will change quickly enough to preserve their own skins. I see far too great a fascination with killing infidels to ever avert an eventual extermination of Islam.

One last time. Islam must save itself.

We have ZERO obligation to save Islam from itself and every right to go about ridding this world of such a pestilential thing as terrorism. Whatever it takes to end terrorism, it needs to be done now. The atrocities must end.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-18 20:08||   2006-12-18 20:08|| Front Page Top

#30 SR71:

The Japanese post war reform is a good example of conversion by force and persuasion. I would use force and Bismarckian Kultur-Kampf against the Muslim-Menace. The general public must be educated on the political essence of Islam, which is only a pseudo religion. It exists because parasitic elites need it to advance their power. Witness the so-called Mongol-Conversion. That didn't come out of faith; elites saw Islam as a controlling tool. It is a collosal error to respect freedom of Muslim worship.
Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2006-12-18 20:10||   2006-12-18 20:10|| Front Page Top

#31 However, Islam contains the seeds of its own destruction, if it does not deal with its own hotheads - it must accept that Islam is the cause of Islam's troubles, not the west or Israel

Bingo! Nobody should ever think that the West is somehow responsible for being obliged to dismantle Islam with whatever tools it takes. Islam brings this upon itself and alone bears all responsibility for what is to come.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-18 20:14||   2006-12-18 20:14|| Front Page Top

#32 There is no one in the Muslim world now to give such an order. The cult demands conversion or death of the whole world. The Jihadis represent the Reformation of Islam.

Brilliant point, SR-71! This is why I hold out so little hope for any radical reformation of Islam. It is currently undergoing its own reform towards a less tolerant and more violent morphology and nothing short of extermination will suffice to assuage it.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-18 20:18||   2006-12-18 20:18|| Front Page Top

#33 So for now, we sit tight and watch the Hamas/Fatah intermural boinking, as we wait for the next 9/11, and the donks/trunks committee backbone. That should prove to be a creative design.
The macaca is still talking about global warming. The world's awareness is out to lunch.
Posted by wxjames 2006-12-18 20:49||   2006-12-18 20:49|| Front Page Top

#34 #30 Sneaze Shaiting3550,

The mongols enthusiastically embraced Islam and continued their invasion of the West. Not exactly the sort of recommendation I would have wanted for MY religion...
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2006-12-18 21:47|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2006-12-18 21:47|| Front Page Top

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