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2007-05-17 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by Delphi 2007-05-17 13:57|| || Front Page|| [12 views ] Top

#1 Will the last Republican please turn out the lights?

Posted by eLarson 2007-05-17 14:49|| 2007-05-17 14:49|| Front Page Top

#2 Compare the agreement with this:

signed a contract with a master to serve a term of 4 to 7 years. In exchange for their service, the indentured servants received their passage paid from England, as well as food, clothing, and shelter once they arrived in the colonies. Some were even paid a salary. When the contract had expired, the servant was paid freedom dues of corn, tools, and clothing, and was allowed to leave the plantation. During the time of his indenture, however, the servant was considered his master's personal property and his contract could be inherited or sold. Prices paid for indentured servants varied depending on skills.

Posted by eLarson 2007-05-17 14:57|| 2007-05-17 14:57|| Front Page Top

#3 The politicians in DC really do want us to rise up in open revolt and revolution, don't they?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-05-17 14:57|| 2007-05-17 14:57|| Front Page Top

#4 One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass...

What the bill will not do: First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same. . . . Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset. . . . Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Africa and Asia. . . . In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy
October 3, 1965

Posted by tu3031 2007-05-17 14:58|| 2007-05-17 14:58|| Front Page Top

#5 I support this effort. I realize that puts me out of step with lots of other Rantburgers.

First: we can't and won't deport 12 million people, and none of us as conservatives would want the ICE and police to have the power and ability to find and deport 12 million people.

Second: I understand these immigrants. If I had to choose between living on $6 a day deep in Mexico, and $8 an hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens in the U.S., I'd be heading north in a New York minute. Yup, I'd be violating the law, but feeding my family comes first.

Third: my family came on the ships to this country. Some came in the early 1700s, some in the early 1900s. Ditto for my wife. If we'd been having this debate a hundred years ago, we'd be deploring Bohunks and Eye-ties rather than Mexicans.

Fourth: these immigrants are a next plus to our country. Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more. They want to be Americans, and they will be, and their children and grandchildren more so -- just like immigrants past.

Give them some form of amnesty. Fix the laws so that we don't have massive illegal immigration any more: make them legal, and provide rules that make sense. Build the fence to stop the inhumane coyotes, the people-peddlers.

But we're not going to deporting 12 million people. Not going to happen.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-05-17 15:31|| 2007-05-17 15:31|| Front Page Top

#6 I only had to read: "One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass." To know that I wanted no part of this.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2007-05-17 15:34|| 2007-05-17 15:34|| Front Page Top

#7 "Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Africa and Asia."

He was both right and wrong - the 1965 bill did intend to spread legal immigration pretty broadly, and it was not, in practice, overwhelmingly from Asia or Africa. It did however open more doors to Latin Americans.

Posted by Crererong Bonaparte1378 2007-05-17 15:34|| 2007-05-17 15:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Yeah, eLarson, remarkably similar. Of course business, primarilay Republicans, wants these illegals as slave workers. Blacks won't function in that capacity any longer, so they're done with them. Demos want them here as illegal voters, which they even readily admit. This is an even bigger mess and piece of garbage than the concoction from last year. None of these lazy shit Senators will actually read and digest this mess prior to floor debate. That's what a low life operator like Kennedy counts on. This will be the beginning of the end of this republic if this is implemented. If you think this is exageration, look at California today. Legislature heavily majority Hispanic in both state House & Senate. They spend twice what revenue is generated. Unfunded pensions, unfunded health care, unfunded everything. Schwartze has been totally coopted by these clowns and doesn't try to oppose them anymore. Just an unmitigated train wreck. Los Angeles is led by a Mexican mayor, a former gang member who is all talk and no action. He just engineered a total subversion of LAPD who took action after issuing warnings against an unruly illegal mob in McArthur Park who attacked cops with bricks and bottles instead of dispersing. So the cops get reprimanded and relieved of duty. The fool, ass-kissing chief goes right along with the Mexican because his contract is due for renewal.So I hope the cops just skip the next riot by these illegals and let the citizenry see the results as they rampage along. And, LA taxpayers will get saddled with an out of court settlement on behalf of LAPD in the millions. Anyway, if you want to look ahead 25 years to see US of future, just go to Mexico today if you're brave enough. Not Matzatlan or Acapulco. Go to the slums around Mexico City. Go to rural areas south or north of Mexico City. If this is what is desired, go there. If Mexicans love this squalor, why don't they stay there ?

Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-05-17 15:34|| 2007-05-17 15:34|| Front Page Top

#9 we can't and won't deport 12 million people, and none of us as conservatives would want the ICE and police to have the power and ability to find and deport 12 million people.

Given that attitude, why even bother with the process as rationalized in this agreement. Just don't comply cause we 'won't deport 12 million people'. They own us. They know it. Just like the Goths who settled across the Rhine in the Roman Empire. What are you going to do when in the millions they don't comply? You've already surrendered. No penalty.

Third: my family came on the ships to this country.

Nice history. We also had slaves. We eventually matured to the point to pay in blood when slavery as an institution and practice wasn't viable anymore. Uncontrolled immigration which is the reality we've been handed doesn't work any better.

Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more.

That's why we say a sea of Mexican and Nicaraguan flags last years in those demonstrations. /sarcasm off. If they don't want to be Mexican why do their 'representatives' keep yelping about 'their' standing and 'their' rights? This is not about integration. Cause if it was, they'd should the the first to call for the annexation of their old country for the benefit of their blood and families back home to enjoy the benefits they have sought out. Oh, that would be imperialistic to ask another country to surrender its sovereignty, but not our own.

Fix the laws so that we don't have massive illegal immigration any more:

We were handed that lie during the Reagan and Clinton years. Now add the Bush. Who's going to lie again in 10 more years?

This is just another social economic enema for the Mexican ruling caste to continue their power and wealth for another ten years without real reform.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-05-17 15:53|| 2007-05-17 15:53|| Front Page Top

#10 #5 I support this effort...If I had to choose between living on $6 a day deep in Mexico, and $8 an hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens in the U.S., I'd be heading north in a New York minute. Yup, I'd be violating the law, but feeding my family comes first."

Yep, me too. Now take that same guy choosing to earn $8.00 per hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens and his American neighbor earning $10.00 per hour doing the same thing. Who will the employer hire? Now multiply this hundreds of thousands of times; what will the impact on America's work force be? Our obligation is not to provide a living for Mexicans nor hurt our fellow citizens by being blind to the economic impact of this coming legislation.

"Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more. They want to be Americans, and they will be, and their children and grandchildren more so -- just like immigrants past."

You may be right. The proof will be in their adoption of American culture and language and loyalty to this nation first.

Posted by Jules 2007-05-17 15:56|| 2007-05-17 15:56|| Front Page Top

#11 Dr. Steve: Well said, sir. Well said.

I'm seeing a lot of commentary from restrictionists this afternoon to the effect that they're gonna show Bush and the GOP just how angry they are by staying home in 2008, voting for some third-party candidate, vote straight Dem ticket, and so on. Now, far be it from me to tell everyone else here how to vote and what to value and who to campaign for, it's a free country and all, but I suggest that if you are considering this response, you should consider a few other things:

1. This isn't over until it's over, and while the final result won't be what you want, it may be something you can live with 'til the next election cycle. You might want to see what's in it before you commit to a strategy. (Good advice in most things political, I daresay.)

2. If I were a restrictionist, I would not want to adopt a strategy out of spite which is all but guaranteed to bring about the exact opposite of my desired result. If significant numbers of conservative voters refuse to vote for the Republican nominee in protest over immigration policy, the result will be that the next president of the United States will be named (choose one) Hillary Rodham Clinton/Barack Hussein Obama/John Edwards/Dennis Kucinich. I can guarantee you that several things will happen during the first term of the (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich administration:

A. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will not, repeat not, emphasize not, adopt a restrictionist policy on immigration. If anything, it will be more liberal and less enforcement-oriented than the current policy or anything the Senate comes up with this week.

B. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will withdraw U.S. troops from the Middle East, abandoning the free people of Iraq and Afghanistan to the terrorists and handing al Qaeda a victory.

C. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will not do anything to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, and from sharing those weapons with the terrorists.

D. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will abandon missile defense.

Speaking for myself, while result "A" bothers me, results "B" "C" and "D" bother me a lot more. Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)

If we wake up one morning in, say, 2010 or 2011 and find that there's a mushroom cloud where (choose one) Seattle/Pittsburgh/Fort Worth/Boston/Nashville/Tel Aviv used to be, and President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will be going to the UN later that day for permission to wring her/his hands, it'll be cold comfort to be able to say, "Well, at least we showed them Republican bastards we were serious about immigration!"

Posted by Mike 2007-05-17 15:56|| 2007-05-17 15:56|| Front Page Top

#12 We CAN deport 12 million criminals (otherwise known as illegal aliens). Our spineless politicians just won't.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2007-05-17 16:01|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2007-05-17 16:01|| Front Page Top

#13 Gotta disagree, Steve. If you could see the impact they're having here in California, you would too. Schools crowded with non-English speakers, emergency rooms crowded with people who have no health insurance, skewed politics, badly skewed politics. Jobs that Americans used to do are now done exclusively by illegals and Americans need not apply. IMHO, we don't have to deport them. What we need is a high-tech, forgery proof Social Security card and some really stiff fines for employers who hire illegals. I doubt seriously if any such provision is included in this newly proposed bill and I would vote against it for that reason alone. After all, Kennedy likes it.

They're here because they don't want to be Mexicans...

I'm not sure about that. The impression I get is many of them want to be Mexicans and they want to be Mexicans here. They proudly wave their Mexican flags every chance they get and that is one of the most disturbing aspects of the whole situation. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage but it's quite another to conquer California by means of illegal immigration. We need to get control of this situation and from what I've heard Kennedy, Feinstein and Bush don't understand that.

Don't get me wrong. I love 'em. I really do. You can't help it when you meet them one to one. But they need to go back to Mexico and fix it.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-05-17 16:02|| 2007-05-17 16:02|| Front Page Top

#14 Mike, with all of California's electoral votes going to the Dhimmicrats our next president is most likely gonna be Hillary Clinton. I'm resigned to that as repugnant as it is. As a California Republican, the one thing I'm sure of is that my vote in 2008 won't count. But remember, before California was overrun by illegal immigrants, it was a red state.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-05-17 16:11|| 2007-05-17 16:11|| Front Page Top

#15 Steve, if you know any legal immigrants ask them what they think about this. Talk to somebody who did it the way it's supposed to be done and gets to see how much his efforts were appreciated.
You think we're pissed off?

Posted by tu3031 2007-05-17 16:11|| 2007-05-17 16:11|| Front Page Top

#16 Reconquista redux - and our business and labor unions are helping them along. I couldn't disagree more about wanting to become Americans. You don't live here - you don't see the raza banners and mexican flags and listen to their "demands". Deport em.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-05-17 16:12|| 2007-05-17 16:12|| Front Page Top

#17 1) How are they going to find 12 million people to get them to pay the fine? ($5000: the value of your citizenship, as established by our Political Masters)

2) If they can't/won't stop the influx of Mexican colonists in this country, what makes you think they can stop, say, Hezbollah or Al Qaeda from waltzing in over the same border?

Posted by eLarson 2007-05-17 16:15|| 2007-05-17 16:15|| Front Page Top

#18 There is no party loyalty.

This is the world they want, fine.

Posted by anonymous2u 2007-05-17 17:19|| 2007-05-17 17:19|| Front Page Top

#19 --"Well, at least we showed them Republican bastards we were serious about immigration!"--

or serious about border security?

And if the terrorists came thru Mexico?

Polls show the American people are well aware we're going to be attacked here and they're willing to take the risk.

Fine.

Posted by anonymous2u 2007-05-17 17:21|| 2007-05-17 17:21|| Front Page Top

#20 I see young adults and people in their 20's that were born here in Denver, that don't speak English and don't care to. I don't see any interest in assimilating. Most have been on public assistance all of their lives.
The Mexican anthem being played at our local games, and our schools celebrating Mexican holidays. Denver closed down some major streets during Cinco de Mayo celebrations for example.
I only see them coming here for the free ride. Cut off those services and that might actually stop the flow quite a bit.

Posted by Jan 2007-05-17 17:45|| 2007-05-17 17:45|| Front Page Top

#21 Speaking for myself, while result "A" bothers me, results "B" "C" and "D" bother me a lot more. Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)

Those illegals are achieving a higher kill ratio on Americans than the Islamists so far. Now toss in highway kills into the numbers and the total becomes even greater in "who's the real immediate threat" category.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-05-17 17:53|| 2007-05-17 17:53|| Front Page Top

#22 Welcome to the Third World, everyone. Your generalissimo will be arriving shortly.

Apparently our political class admires the banana republic model, because they've decided to swap out the population for one that was raised under it. We'll be seeing more blatant corruption, more blatant vote-buying, and more blatant attempts to shut down criticism of the politicians as we bring in all these criminals.

And, face it, that's what they are. Criminals. We have laws that detail how you become a US citizen, how foreigners may enter legally. They ignored them. They're criminals, and last year's rallies showed they're thugs, too.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-05-17 17:55|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-05-17 17:55|| Front Page Top

#23 Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)

Many of the Fort Dix plotters came in through the Mexican border. And while those "undocumented" Mexican gardeners may not be a threat to you, how many Americans are unable to get a job because they've been undercut by a criminal?

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-05-17 17:57|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-05-17 17:57|| Front Page Top

#24 First, the term "illegal immigrant" is made to legitimize illegal aliens. They are not immigrants, they are people that are illegaly in this country. If I went to Mexico, or the UK, NZ, OZ, or any European country and plunked down there and worked illegally, when I was found out, I would be deported. Period.

We are in a pickle with illegals because our government and our congress will not enforce the laws designed to protect our citizens. This IS NOT an issue about IMMIGRATION, this is an issue about government failing to do its duty concerning protection of its citizens. The President could be impeached for failing to enforce the law concerning protecting our borders from illegals and the fallout of them in our country.

Leaving illegals in this country brings the culture of corruption of the stinking homelands where they all came from. Think how many businesses hire illegals. The whole under-the-table business culture is thriving here now. This undermines the culture of this country.

The cheap labor is not really cheap. Illegals getting health and welfare services are being paid for by YOU, the taxpayer. And Me. When you look at total costs, they are pretty expensive.

I really do not give a rat's behind about them and their families. Not when they affect mine.

My solution to the illegals problem is simple:

1. Seal off the border. Enforce the laws we have. Take no crap from the Mexican government.

2. Enforce and strengthen the laws we have against employing illegals. Employers pay hefty fines, are not allowed tax deductions for illegals. Knowingly doing the activity makes for jail time and confiscation of assets. This will take the financial incentive out of illegals coming here.

3. Set aside some billions of dollars for sending illegals back. Help them to go home. 1 and 2 will make it more attractive for illegals to leave. Let the problem sort itself out. We do not have to round them all up. They will want to leave. There is nothing for them here, financially.

4. Get rid of all the worthless parasite congress people who got us in this mess in the first place.

I trust very few of the ones we have. They seem to have no compunction about taking our hard earned money and blowing it. And that goes for Republicans and Democrats. One wants cheap labor and the other wants cheap votes. They are all the enemy.
/rant

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-05-17 18:01|| 2007-05-17 18:01|| Front Page Top

#25 Build the fence. Stop the flow. Sort out the mess later.

Posted by Shipman">Shipman 2007-05-17 18:05|| 2007-05-17 18:05|| Front Page Top

#26 Geeze, and we didn't even get kissed afterwards...

Posted by mojo">mojo 2007-05-17 18:07|| 2007-05-17 18:07|| Front Page Top

#27 How many of the 35,000 gang members in LA are going to get 'Z' "visas" ? Do MS-13 thugs have to stand in line, or can they just get in front?
Will it be illegal for the Coyotes to charge more to Brazillians/Iranians/Paks than Mexicans? Why is catch and release practiced by those who claim deporting 12M can't be done? Lots of questions remain, but at least we still have a chance the Congress will block this Kennedy/McCain Amnesty bill. Your Congresscritter needs to hear from you! Not a dime to those voting for this trash.

Posted by Phineter Thraviger 2007-05-17 18:12|| 2007-05-17 18:12|| Front Page Top

#28 History will show that today was the day that President Bush lost the Iraq War by gutting the Republican party.

Posted by RWV 2007-05-17 18:15|| 2007-05-17 18:15|| Front Page Top

#29 AP's strategy is a pretty good one. We have to get a hold on the flow and the incentive to be here before doing anything else. The business owners must be made to suffer if they hire illegals. Have the fine revenue go to the local state or community, thus giving those governments financial incentives to enforce the laws.

If we don't protect our borders then we are not a country. This is friggin BS. And there are going to be a whole lot of democrat voters who are not going to like it either. This is an issue that crosses party lines in a big way.

Posted by remoteman 2007-05-17 18:23|| 2007-05-17 18:23|| Front Page Top

#30 Dr Steve, have to differ with your "they don't want to be Mexicans anymore" argument. Haven't met one that didn't want to make a big pile o' money here, and then live large back in Mexico.

The ones that want to be here legally find a way. Trust me on this. Every time that I have gone with the Tsar to an Immigration office, I would guesstimate based on accents alone that 80% or so of the rest of the people waiting to speak to an officer are Mexican. Bring that up to 90% + in the Phoenix office.

If I were Mexican, I'd be pissed off at the stereotyping that they can't figure out how to be here legally and are too stupid to figure it out. That's dead wrong.

But since I'm not Mexican, and just some American dork who decided three years ago to help my honey do this the legal way.....let's just say I'm ever so grateful that they have probably just ensured that my baby boy (almost 8 mo. old) will graduate from high school before his daddy ever gets his green card, thanks to this wonderful program. We were hoping that the Tsar would get it by the time the Tsarevich hit kindergarten, but my least favorite Masshole just did his damndest to screw that plan for us. Muchas gracias, pendejo.

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2007-05-17 18:28|| 2007-05-17 18:28|| Front Page Top

#31 Thanks GOP!! Let the sell-out begin!

Posted by DMFD 2007-05-17 18:46|| 2007-05-17 18:46|| Front Page Top

#32 So let's see if I understand this correctly. The dhemmicrats have surrendered to the islamic terrorists in Iraq and both the dhemmicrats and fubarepublicans have surrendered to the illegal Mexicans.

Build the fence and stop the flow. Start rounding up the illegals and shipping them back. Illegals are criminals as I understand it. See what happens if any of us try to emigrate legally to Mexico. If we try go down there illegally, we get are buttes in a big jam. The Congress critters have become elitists whom we are beginning not to be able to afford. They do little with the voters or people in mind--it is all about getting the majority of votes in the next election.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-05-17 18:51|| 2007-05-17 18:51|| Front Page Top

#33 My thoughts about this are worthy of the sinktrap.

Posted by RWV 2007-05-17 18:57|| 2007-05-17 18:57|| Front Page Top

#34 Every Senator and Congressman/woman that voted for this has blood on thier hands

http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=42

This was maybe three miles from my house. The second victim of an illegal in the last 90 days

Posted by Cheddarhead 2007-05-17 19:05|| 2007-05-17 19:05|| Front Page Top

#35 I just wrote my two craven bastard Senators, Webb and Warner, and told them how much I despise their selling this country out to a horde of intentionally nonassimilating foreigners. I also wrote my Representative and told him that he needs to go into overdrive in trying to convince both his side and the Dim idiots on the other side of the aisle that anything other than strict enforcement is a disaster for this country. Right now the U.S. Government has absolutely zero credibility on the enforcement issue. They need to prove to me that they can and will enforce the laws on immigration before I'll even think about believing them. As for Steve White's comment: Steve, you're just wrong. Period. You should know better. Anything that has the endorsement of the fat, sleazy bastard Masshole Kennedy has to be wrong just on the face of it.

Posted by Mac 2007-05-17 19:06|| 2007-05-17 19:06|| Front Page Top

#36 what Alaska Paul said, Dittos!

Posted by Red Dog">Red Dog 2007-05-17 19:07|| 2007-05-17 19:07|| Front Page Top

#37 what Alaska Paul said but also take away all of the free services that we give them! We need to relook at the anchor baby situation as well.
We give them more than our own citizens!

Posted by Jan 2007-05-17 19:16|| 2007-05-17 19:16|| Front Page Top

#38 I am steamed today, Red Dog. I wrote my rant in Word and edited it for Rantburg. I did not want to be sinktrapped or turned into the FBI. Ima drinkin blueberry tea to calm down.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-05-17 19:21|| 2007-05-17 19:21|| Front Page Top

#39 Michelle Malkin has a survey on her site: "Will you support a GOP presidential candidate who supports the Bush/Kennedy amnesty?".

I had trouble completing it, as there were no options stronger than 'Hell No!'

Posted by DMFD 2007-05-17 19:27|| 2007-05-17 19:27|| Front Page Top

#40 Wish I could articulate things as well as AP. I think I will bypass the blueberry tea and try the Jack Daniels if my bloodpressure will stand it.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-05-17 19:28|| 2007-05-17 19:28|| Front Page Top

#41 Hell, I'm so damned angry right now that if I said what I REALLY feel, I'd be obligated to sinktrap myself-- or even put myself on Fred's pooplist.

It's times like this that make it a bit hard to argue against the "not a dime's worth of difference" crowd, that's for damned sure...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-05-17 19:28|| 2007-05-17 19:28|| Front Page Top

#42 I am steamed today, Red Dog. I wrote my rant in Word and edited it for Rantburg. I did not want to be sinktrapped or turned into the FBI. Ima drinkin blueberry tea to calm down.

hey I don't blame you one bit AP, btw thanks for your comment, I'm tired today but you got me going!! ;-)

RE Illegal Aliens:

The lack of Constitutional due diligence on the part of our elected governors/reps/sen./president is not only heart breaking but it just about breaks the ancient contract between we the citizens and the State......United States of America in our case.

We citizens agree to serve in the Armed Forces, agree to pay our taxes, agree to abide by the laws, and swear our allegiance to the United States of America.

On the other hand we are entitled to protection from threats to our families and to our livelihoods from criminals, foreign spies, foreign governments, and non-citizens invading our Nation.

BTW Illegal Aliens here in America are not only the most costly and expensive illegals ever, they are corrosive to the very laws by which we are all governed by.

Is obedience to our Laws important to you?
Is the English language important to you?
Is the love of Country important to you?

Posted by Red Dog">Red Dog 2007-05-17 20:06|| 2007-05-17 20:06|| Front Page Top

#43 Ship: Build the fence. Stop the flow. Sort out the mess later

that would be a start, but just like Cyber Sarge said,

I only had to read: "One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass." To know that I wanted no part of this.

Posted by Red Dog">Red Dog 2007-05-17 20:11|| 2007-05-17 20:11|| Front Page Top

#44 ROMNEY OPPOSES

Posted by treo 2007-05-17 20:18|| 2007-05-17 20:18|| Front Page Top

#45 They are spies under the Geneva convention and this being a time of war, a penalty is already in existence for this crime. Death. It won't require the use more than a few times, since once word gets out, they'll head back on their own. Time long past that we hold the Mexican government accountable for this invasion of our country and put an end to the enabling traitors that allow it to continue.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2007-05-17 20:42|| 2007-05-17 20:42|| Front Page Top

#46 Can I grab my gun a refresh the tree of liberty in DC now?

Posted by jds 2007-05-17 21:01|| 2007-05-17 21:01|| Front Page Top

#47 AP, aquavit works better than blueberry tea.

Posted by RWV 2007-05-17 21:39|| 2007-05-17 21:39|| Front Page Top

#48 I'm with what Alaska Paul in this. In addition:

Change the law so that someone born here gets citizenship only if BOTH parents are legal (either citizens or LEGAL residents).

Cut all federal funding to so-called 'sanctuary cities' and other governments as well as any local program which does not have a legally-here test.
Sorry major Nickles of Seattle - you want that spanking new expensive tunnel go beg from your illegal aliens workers for the money - after all since they are such a boom to the economy they should be able to pay for it right?

Do not give free medical, dental, or services to illegals except in immediate life-saving situations (and then only until they can get shipped out).

Deport illegals. If you have to create camps to house them until they can be shipped back. Yes this sounds like an 'internment camp' but they would be there according to their legal status.

Always refer to them as ILLEGAL ALIENS. To call them immigrants in any way, shape, or form is a insult to those who patiently waited for their turn to come here and be law-abiding legal residents (and then citizens).

Posted by CrazyFool 2007-05-17 21:43|| 2007-05-17 21:43|| Front Page Top

#49 What Rob Crawford and Alaska Paul said.

Living in Silicon Valley, I've seen not only the impact of Hispanic gangswhich local police do a magnificent job of curtailingbut I also see how very little assimilation is going on.

My mother came over as a war-bride from Denmark. Eventually her entire family followed. Every single one of them learned fluent English and became productive American citizens Nothing of the sort can be said for a huge portion of those arriving from Mexico or overseas.

Here's a simple solution: MAKE IT EXCEPTIONALLY DIFFICULT TO REMIT MONEY TO MEXICO OR OVERSEAS WITHOUT PROOF OF LEGITIMATE IDENTITY AND TRACK REMITTANCES AGAINST INDIVIDUAL EARNINGS TO ENSURE AGAINST ANY POOLING FOR SAID TRANSFERS OF FUNDS.

This one single measure would deter a major fraction of illegal aliens here in America. It would also hasten the downfall of Mexico's hypercorrupt government whose economymuch like the Philippinesheavily depends upon outside monetary cash infusions for workers abroad.

Like Robert Crawford said, these illegal aliens are importing their culture of corruption and violence. Totaling up the costs of Hispanic gang violence, unlicensed and uninsured driving violations and accidents, medical aid and the immense amount of vandalism that Hispanic youth is so predisposed to committing and the final bill is in the BILLIONS.

I have long suspected that one reason our politicians love illegal workers is that their use of false Social Security numbers is pumping untold BILLIONS of dollars into the SSI fund so that it masks how our poilticians are raping it.

Illegal Hispanic immigration and legal Muslim immigration share a host of common and exceptionally corrosive aspects which our politicians should be defending us from. That they do not shows a distinct preference for a more tractableread: "purchasable"electorate, not to mention an arrogance and elitism that would be astounding were it not so viciously anti-American.

Like I said: Make it impossible for illegal aliens to send earnings out of this country. This will choke off a big portion of continued illegal immigration and encourage many others who are already here illegally to leave. It would also have a big positive effect on our own economy by increasing domestic spending. Such a measure would also require a major crackdown on the Muslim halawa network and that would only be great good news.

It is disgusting beyond words to see our government become an enemy of the people. This is betrayal writ large and represents a final demagnetization of America's political moral compass.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-05-17 21:50|| 2007-05-17 21:50|| Front Page Top

#50 why is it so clear to so many of us, but the folks who hold our future in the balance refuse to see it for what it is?!
This is madness! Thanks for this much needed release at least. I hope they will hear our emails and phone calls.

Posted by Jan 2007-05-17 22:00|| 2007-05-17 22:00|| Front Page Top

#51 Read the leaked version of the bill. Its ASTOUNDING the concessions that are made.

It entitles them to financial aid for college, establishes a right to in state tuition, allows them to receive welfare and medicare/medicaid, and ll that without being required to go back.

There are even MORE goodies in the bill, including free federal aid for their defense if they are put on trial for lying on their immigration paperwork, and a mandate that the judges for immigration must have served as a lawyer FOR illegals for at least 3 years bofre they will consider him/her for a judge position.

Now, Steve, what do you think?

This deserves a veto and a filibuster.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-05-17 22:02|| 2007-05-17 22:02|| Front Page Top

#52 And by the way, the bill allows the 12 million here to bring over spouses, minor brothers & sisters and elderly parents, as well as children.

In other words its not 12 million, its more like 25 million.

Bush is an idiot and a sellout. If he'd stand strong and call it what it is, amnesty, instead of that damned idiot smirk and lying thru his teeth, the bill would have been DOA.

Im ready to let the left impeach Bush before he does any more damage. War Tsar, Gonzales, Botched Iraq by not telling the story or making us go to war instead of to the mall, Harriet Myers nomination... The man is an idiot.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-05-17 22:07|| 2007-05-17 22:07|| Front Page Top

#53 I'm going down to the courthouse tomorrow and changing my voter registration. Republican no more. And it's going to stay that way, unless Fred Thompson decides to run; then I'll change back in time to vote for him in the primaries.

Otherwise, fuck these idiots. Not a dime's worth of difference, indeed.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-05-17 22:11|| 2007-05-17 22:11|| Front Page Top

#54 And by the way, yes I am furious over this betrayal. I faxed the Whitehouse my certificate they sent me for raising $10K, and told George the next time the party needed money try getting it in Pesos. Because they will never see another dollar form me - and I also wrote (real name and address), that I was going to support anyone that was trying to impeach the president, since I see this betrayal as damaging the US and a breach of his constitutional duties.

I;ve faxed my senators and Rep, and Sen Kyl (accusing him of selling out and quoting his web page to him as proof), and Sen McConnell - and the RNC, warning them that if they pass this they will be short my money in the next election. I'll support my candidate directly and keep the money out of their thieving backstabbing hands.

Congrats Bush, you just destroyed the Republican party. Idiot.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-05-17 22:13|| 2007-05-17 22:13|| Front Page Top

#55 Only %5 support on Milkin's poll

Bush better reconsider

Posted by 3dc 2007-05-17 22:37|| 2007-05-17 22:37|| Front Page Top

#56 Moderators: Would you please consider rolling this thread over to tomorrow. This is one of the more significant developments in domestic policy in some time. I'm sure that others besides myself would enjoy having Rantburg's collective thoughts on this bundled into one single source so that comparing notes would be much easier. As always, your efforts are deeply appreciated,

Zenster

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-05-17 23:21|| 2007-05-17 23:21|| Front Page Top

#57 Unfortunately, the immigration isue is being used by activists and Politicos as a broad-based cover for ANY AND ALL IMMIGRATION = HISPANIC/MINORITY ISSUES, including the LEGAL right and privelege of ILLEGALS TO STAY [LEGALLY]ILLEGAL, AND ON PERM OR NEAR-PERM PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, FOREVER WO TRYING TO EVER BECOME LEGAL.

Radical Islam has made it crystal clear that it has no qualms doing anything necessary to defeat the USA, in the ME or anywhere in the world. This includes using our own value systems + public institutions,etc, against ourselves. IN TIME OF WAR, ESPEC WAR FOR NATIONAL SURVIVAL WHICH THE WOT IS, "BORDER SECURITY" IS A PARAMOUNT NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE. LEFT > Year 2015-2020 > the USA must - MUST, NOW, M-U-S-T, NOT SHOULD OR MAY - adopt anti-US OWG-SWO by then or the Left reserves its right to resort to violence, anarchy, and even MUTUAL-DESTRUCTION, etal. to achieve same. BTWN NOW AND 2020, ANYTHING DESTABILIZING = NON-MUTUALLY DESTRUCTIVE GOES, WHICH AGAIN INCLUDES USING OUR OWN VALUES, SYSTEMS, AND POLITICS ETC. AGZ OURSELVES.

IMO, what Dubya-GOP should be saying is that any illegal whom does not formally declare himself [wid family-dependents] and file for citizenship-residency, i.e. legal status [wo penalty], before December 31, 2007 will be considered immed. deportable and treated as so, at all levels of law enforcement, jurisprudence, and other public authority. SEVEN MOS IS NOT LONG ENUFF TO DECLARE, OR EVEN BEGIN FORMAL, PRELIMINARY FILINGS - GET REAL!

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-05-17 23:31|| 2007-05-17 23:31|| Front Page Top

23:58 bigjim-ky
23:53 49 Pan
23:51 bigjim-ky
23:47 JosephMendiola
23:45 ryuge
23:40 JosephMendiola
23:36 bigjim-ky
23:34 DMFD
23:32 Bob Mugabe
23:31 JosephMendiola
23:31 bigjim-ky
23:28 Old Patriot
23:21 Zenster
23:10 Zenster
22:47 ryuge
22:40 JosephMendiola
22:37 3dc
22:29 twobyfour
22:26 Jackal
22:21 JosephMendiola
22:14 JosephMendiola
22:13 OldSpook
22:11 Dave D.
22:10 JosephMendiola