A British-born Muslim trained by Al-Qaeda and convicted of plotting to blow up Israel's embassy in Australia was freed Thursday after serving half of his nine-year jail term.
Jack Roche, 53, who pleaded guilty in 2004 to planning with Al-Qaeda to attack Israel's mission in Canberra, walked free from a prison in the western city of Perth after serving four-and-a-half years behind bars, media reported.
...
He confessed to travelling to Afghanistan, where he met Osama bin Laden before receiving explosives training with Al-Qaeda. He later returned to Australia where he carried out surveillance and planning for an attack on the embassy.
This article starring:
JACK ROCHE
al-Qaeda
Posted by: ed ||
05/17/2007 07:26 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
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#1
He confessed to travelling to Afghanistan, where he met Osama bin Laden before receiving explosives training with Al-Qaeda.
A bipartisan group of senators reached agreement with the White House Thursday on an immigration overhaul to grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. and fortify the border against new ones.
One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said he expects President Bush to endorse it.
The deal came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences.
It set the stage for what promises to be a bruising battle next week in the Senate on one of Bush's top non-war priorities.
The key breakthrough came when negotiators struck a bargain on a so-called "point system" that would for the first time prioritize immigrants' education and skill-level over family connections in deciding how to award green cards.
The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and after paying fees and a $5,000 fine and returning to their home countries ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years.
They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and a high-tech worker identification program were completed.
A new temporary guest worker program would also have to wait until those so-called "triggers" had been activated.
signed a contract with a master to serve a term of 4 to 7 years. In exchange for their service, the indentured servants received their passage paid from England, as well as food, clothing, and shelter once they arrived in the colonies. Some were even paid a salary. When the contract had expired, the servant was paid freedom dues of corn, tools, and clothing, and was allowed to leave the plantation. During the time of his indenture, however, the servant was considered his master's personal property and his contract could be inherited or sold. Prices paid for indentured servants varied depending on skills.
#4
One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass...
What the bill will not do: First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same. . . . Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset. . . . Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Africa and Asia. . . . In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think.
#5
I support this effort. I realize that puts me out of step with lots of other Rantburgers.
First: we can't and won't deport 12 million people, and none of us as conservatives would want the ICE and police to have the power and ability to find and deport 12 million people.
Second: I understand these immigrants. If I had to choose between living on $6 a day deep in Mexico, and $8 an hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens in the U.S., I'd be heading north in a New York minute. Yup, I'd be violating the law, but feeding my family comes first.
Third: my family came on the ships to this country. Some came in the early 1700s, some in the early 1900s. Ditto for my wife. If we'd been having this debate a hundred years ago, we'd be deploring Bohunks and Eye-ties rather than Mexicans.
Fourth: these immigrants are a next plus to our country. Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more. They want to be Americans, and they will be, and their children and grandchildren more so -- just like immigrants past.
Give them some form of amnesty. Fix the laws so that we don't have massive illegal immigration any more: make them legal, and provide rules that make sense. Build the fence to stop the inhumane coyotes, the people-peddlers.
But we're not going to deporting 12 million people. Not going to happen.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/17/2007 15:31 Comments ||
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#6
I only had to read: "One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass." To know that I wanted no part of this.
#7
"Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Africa and Asia."
He was both right and wrong - the 1965 bill did intend to spread legal immigration pretty broadly, and it was not, in practice, overwhelmingly from Asia or Africa. It did however open more doors to Latin Americans.
#8
Yeah, eLarson, remarkably similar. Of course business, primarilay Republicans, wants these illegals as slave workers. Blacks won't function in that capacity any longer, so they're done with them. Demos want them here as illegal voters, which they even readily admit. This is an even bigger mess and piece of garbage than the concoction from last year. None of these lazy shit Senators will actually read and digest this mess prior to floor debate. That's what a low life operator like Kennedy counts on. This will be the beginning of the end of this republic if this is implemented. If you think this is exageration, look at California today. Legislature heavily majority Hispanic in both state House & Senate. They spend twice what revenue is generated. Unfunded pensions, unfunded health care, unfunded everything. Schwartze has been totally coopted by these clowns and doesn't try to oppose them anymore. Just an unmitigated train wreck. Los Angeles is led by a Mexican mayor, a former gang member who is all talk and no action. He just engineered a total subversion of LAPD who took action after issuing warnings against an unruly illegal mob in McArthur Park who attacked cops with bricks and bottles instead of dispersing. So the cops get reprimanded and relieved of duty. The fool, ass-kissing chief goes right along with the Mexican because his contract is due for renewal.So I hope the cops just skip the next riot by these illegals and let the citizenry see the results as they rampage along. And, LA taxpayers will get saddled with an out of court settlement on behalf of LAPD in the millions. Anyway, if you want to look ahead 25 years to see US of future, just go to Mexico today if you're brave enough. Not Matzatlan or Acapulco. Go to the slums around Mexico City. Go to rural areas south or north of Mexico City. If this is what is desired, go there. If Mexicans love this squalor, why don't they stay there ?
#9
we can't and won't deport 12 million people, and none of us as conservatives would want the ICE and police to have the power and ability to find and deport 12 million people.
Given that attitude, why even bother with the process as rationalized in this agreement. Just don't comply cause we 'won't deport 12 million people'. They own us. They know it. Just like the Goths who settled across the Rhine in the Roman Empire. What are you going to do when in the millions they don't comply? You've already surrendered. No penalty.
Third: my family came on the ships to this country.
Nice history. We also had slaves. We eventually matured to the point to pay in blood when slavery as an institution and practice wasn't viable anymore. Uncontrolled immigration which is the reality we've been handed doesn't work any better.
Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more.
That's why we say a sea of Mexican and Nicaraguan flags last years in those demonstrations. /sarcasm off. If they don't want to be Mexican why do their 'representatives' keep yelping about 'their' standing and 'their' rights? This is not about integration. Cause if it was, they'd should the the first to call for the annexation of their old country for the benefit of their blood and families back home to enjoy the benefits they have sought out. Oh, that would be imperialistic to ask another country to surrender its sovereignty, but not our own.
Fix the laws so that we don't have massive illegal immigration any more:
We were handed that lie during the Reagan and Clinton years. Now add the Bush. Who's going to lie again in 10 more years?
This is just another social economic enema for the Mexican ruling caste to continue their power and wealth for another ten years without real reform.
#10
#5 I support this effort...If I had to choose between living on $6 a day deep in Mexico, and $8 an hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens in the U.S., I'd be heading north in a New York minute. Yup, I'd be violating the law, but feeding my family comes first."
Yep, me too. Now take that same guy choosing to earn $8.00 per hour mowing lawns and chopping up chickens and his American neighbor earning $10.00 per hour doing the same thing. Who will the employer hire? Now multiply this hundreds of thousands of times; what will the impact on America's work force be? Our obligation is not to provide a living for Mexicans nor hurt our fellow citizens by being blind to the economic impact of this coming legislation.
"Most of them came here precisely because they don't want to be Mexicans any more. They want to be Americans, and they will be, and their children and grandchildren more so -- just like immigrants past."
You may be right. The proof will be in their adoption of American culture and language and loyalty to this nation first.
I'm seeing a lot of commentary from restrictionists this afternoon to the effect that they're gonna show Bush and the GOP just how angry they are by staying home in 2008, voting for some third-party candidate, vote straight Dem ticket, and so on. Now, far be it from me to tell everyone else here how to vote and what to value and who to campaign for, it's a free country and all, but I suggest that if you are considering this response, you should consider a few other things:
1. This isn't over until it's over, and while the final result won't be what you want, it may be something you can live with 'til the next election cycle. You might want to see what's in it before you commit to a strategy. (Good advice in most things political, I daresay.)
2. If I were a restrictionist, I would not want to adopt a strategy out of spite which is all but guaranteed to bring about the exact opposite of my desired result. If significant numbers of conservative voters refuse to vote for the Republican nominee in protest over immigration policy, the result will be that the next president of the United States will be named (choose one) Hillary Rodham Clinton/Barack Hussein Obama/John Edwards/Dennis Kucinich. I can guarantee you that several things will happen during the first term of the (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich administration:
A. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will not, repeat not, emphasize not, adopt a restrictionist policy on immigration. If anything, it will be more liberal and less enforcement-oriented than the current policy or anything the Senate comes up with this week.
B. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will withdraw U.S. troops from the Middle East, abandoning the free people of Iraq and Afghanistan to the terrorists and handing al Qaeda a victory.
C. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will not do anything to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, and from sharing those weapons with the terrorists.
D. President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will abandon missile defense.
Speaking for myself, while result "A" bothers me, results "B" "C" and "D" bother me a lot more. Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)
If we wake up one morning in, say, 2010 or 2011 and find that there's a mushroom cloud where (choose one) Seattle/Pittsburgh/Fort Worth/Boston/Nashville/Tel Aviv used to be, and President (choose one) Rodham Clinton/Obama/Edwards/Kucinich will be going to the UN later that day for permission to wring her/his hands, it'll be cold comfort to be able to say, "Well, at least we showed them Republican bastards we were serious about immigration!"
Posted by: Mike ||
05/17/2007 15:56 Comments ||
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#12
We CAN deport 12 million criminals (otherwise known as illegal aliens). Our spineless politicians just won't.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/17/2007 16:01 Comments ||
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#13
Gotta disagree, Steve. If you could see the impact they're having here in California, you would too. Schools crowded with non-English speakers, emergency rooms crowded with people who have no health insurance, skewed politics, badly skewed politics. Jobs that Americans used to do are now done exclusively by illegals and Americans need not apply. IMHO, we don't have to deport them. What we need is a high-tech, forgery proof Social Security card and some really stiff fines for employers who hire illegals. I doubt seriously if any such provision is included in this newly proposed bill and I would vote against it for that reason alone. After all, Kennedy likes it.
They're here because they don't want to be Mexicans...
I'm not sure about that. The impression I get is many of them want to be Mexicans and they want to be Mexicans here. They proudly wave their Mexican flags every chance they get and that is one of the most disturbing aspects of the whole situation. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage but it's quite another to conquer California by means of illegal immigration. We need to get control of this situation and from what I've heard Kennedy, Feinstein and Bush don't understand that.
Don't get me wrong. I love 'em. I really do. You can't help it when you meet them one to one. But they need to go back to Mexico and fix it.
#14
Mike, with all of California's electoral votes going to the Dhimmicrats our next president is most likely gonna be Hillary Clinton. I'm resigned to that as repugnant as it is. As a California Republican, the one thing I'm sure of is that my vote in 2008 won't count. But remember, before California was overrun by illegal immigrants, it was a red state.
#15
Steve, if you know any legal immigrants ask them what they think about this. Talk to somebody who did it the way it's supposed to be done and gets to see how much his efforts were appreciated.
You think we're pissed off?
#16
Reconquista redux - and our business and labor unions are helping them along. I couldn't disagree more about wanting to become Americans. You don't live here - you don't see the raza banners and mexican flags and listen to their "demands". Deport em.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/17/2007 16:12 Comments ||
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#17
1) How are they going to find 12 million people to get them to pay the fine? ($5000: the value of your citizenship, as established by our Political Masters)
2) If they can't/won't stop the influx of Mexican colonists in this country, what makes you think they can stop, say, Hezbollah or Al Qaeda from waltzing in over the same border?
#20
I see young adults and people in their 20's that were born here in Denver, that don't speak English and don't care to. I don't see any interest in assimilating. Most have been on public assistance all of their lives.
The Mexican anthem being played at our local games, and our schools celebrating Mexican holidays. Denver closed down some major streets during Cinco de Mayo celebrations for example.
I only see them coming here for the free ride. Cut off those services and that might actually stop the flow quite a bit.
Posted by: Jan ||
05/17/2007 17:45 Comments ||
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#21
Speaking for myself, while result "A" bothers me, results "B" "C" and "D" bother me a lot more. Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)
Those illegals are achieving a higher kill ratio on Americans than the Islamists so far. Now toss in highway kills into the numbers and the total becomes even greater in "who's the real immediate threat" category.
#22
Welcome to the Third World, everyone. Your generalissimo will be arriving shortly.
Apparently our political class admires the banana republic model, because they've decided to swap out the population for one that was raised under it. We'll be seeing more blatant corruption, more blatant vote-buying, and more blatant attempts to shut down criticism of the politicians as we bring in all these criminals.
And, face it, that's what they are. Criminals. We have laws that detail how you become a US citizen, how foreigners may enter legally. They ignored them. They're criminals, and last year's rallies showed they're thugs, too.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
05/17/2007 17:55 Comments ||
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#23
Islamofascism is an existential threat to me, and my family, and my country. (Undocumented Mexican gardeners, not so much.)
Many of the Fort Dix plotters came in through the Mexican border. And while those "undocumented" Mexican gardeners may not be a threat to you, how many Americans are unable to get a job because they've been undercut by a criminal?
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
05/17/2007 17:57 Comments ||
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#24
First, the term "illegal immigrant" is made to legitimize illegal aliens. They are not immigrants, they are people that are illegaly in this country. If I went to Mexico, or the UK, NZ, OZ, or any European country and plunked down there and worked illegally, when I was found out, I would be deported. Period.
We are in a pickle with illegals because our government and our congress will not enforce the laws designed to protect our citizens. This IS NOT an issue about IMMIGRATION, this is an issue about government failing to do its duty concerning protection of its citizens. The President could be impeached for failing to enforce the law concerning protecting our borders from illegals and the fallout of them in our country.
Leaving illegals in this country brings the culture of corruption of the stinking homelands where they all came from. Think how many businesses hire illegals. The whole under-the-table business culture is thriving here now. This undermines the culture of this country.
The cheap labor is not really cheap. Illegals getting health and welfare services are being paid for by YOU, the taxpayer. And Me. When you look at total costs, they are pretty expensive.
I really do not give a rat's behind about them and their families. Not when they affect mine.
My solution to the illegals problem is simple:
1. Seal off the border. Enforce the laws we have. Take no crap from the Mexican government.
2. Enforce and strengthen the laws we have against employing illegals. Employers pay hefty fines, are not allowed tax deductions for illegals. Knowingly doing the activity makes for jail time and confiscation of assets. This will take the financial incentive out of illegals coming here.
3. Set aside some billions of dollars for sending illegals back. Help them to go home. 1 and 2 will make it more attractive for illegals to leave. Let the problem sort itself out. We do not have to round them all up. They will want to leave. There is nothing for them here, financially.
4. Get rid of all the worthless parasite congress people who got us in this mess in the first place.
I trust very few of the ones we have. They seem to have no compunction about taking our hard earned money and blowing it. And that goes for Republicans and Democrats. One wants cheap labor and the other wants cheap votes. They are all the enemy.
/rant
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/17/2007 18:01 Comments ||
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#25
Build the fence. Stop the flow. Sort out the mess later.
#27
How many of the 35,000 gang members in LA are going to get 'Z' "visas" ? Do MS-13 thugs have to stand in line, or can they just get in front?
Will it be illegal for the Coyotes to charge more to Brazillians/Iranians/Paks than Mexicans? Why is catch and release practiced by those who claim deporting 12M can't be done? Lots of questions remain, but at least we still have a chance the Congress will block this Kennedy/McCain Amnesty bill. Your Congresscritter needs to hear from you! Not a dime to those voting for this trash.
#29
AP's strategy is a pretty good one. We have to get a hold on the flow and the incentive to be here before doing anything else. The business owners must be made to suffer if they hire illegals. Have the fine revenue go to the local state or community, thus giving those governments financial incentives to enforce the laws.
If we don't protect our borders then we are not a country. This is friggin BS. And there are going to be a whole lot of democrat voters who are not going to like it either. This is an issue that crosses party lines in a big way.
#30
Dr Steve, have to differ with your "they don't want to be Mexicans anymore" argument. Haven't met one that didn't want to make a big pile o' money here, and then live large back in Mexico.
The ones that want to be here legally find a way. Trust me on this. Every time that I have gone with the Tsar to an Immigration office, I would guesstimate based on accents alone that 80% or so of the rest of the people waiting to speak to an officer are Mexican. Bring that up to 90% + in the Phoenix office.
If I were Mexican, I'd be pissed off at the stereotyping that they can't figure out how to be here legally and are too stupid to figure it out. That's dead wrong.
But since I'm not Mexican, and just some American dork who decided three years ago to help my honey do this the legal way.....let's just say I'm ever so grateful that they have probably just ensured that my baby boy (almost 8 mo. old) will graduate from high school before his daddy ever gets his green card, thanks to this wonderful program. We were hoping that the Tsar would get it by the time the Tsarevich hit kindergarten, but my least favorite Masshole just did his damndest to screw that plan for us. Muchas gracias, pendejo.
#32
So let's see if I understand this correctly. The dhemmicrats have surrendered to the islamic terrorists in Iraq and both the dhemmicrats and fubarepublicans have surrendered to the illegal Mexicans.
Build the fence and stop the flow. Start rounding up the illegals and shipping them back. Illegals are criminals as I understand it. See what happens if any of us try to emigrate legally to Mexico. If we try go down there illegally, we get are buttes in a big jam. The Congress critters have become elitists whom we are beginning not to be able to afford. They do little with the voters or people in mind--it is all about getting the majority of votes in the next election.
#35
I just wrote my two craven bastard Senators, Webb and Warner, and told them how much I despise their selling this country out to a horde of intentionally nonassimilating foreigners. I also wrote my Representative and told him that he needs to go into overdrive in trying to convince both his side and the Dim idiots on the other side of the aisle that anything other than strict enforcement is a disaster for this country. Right now the U.S. Government has absolutely zero credibility on the enforcement issue. They need to prove to me that they can and will enforce the laws on immigration before I'll even think about believing them. As for Steve White's comment: Steve, you're just wrong. Period. You should know better. Anything that has the endorsement of the fat, sleazy bastard Masshole Kennedy has to be wrong just on the face of it.
Posted by: Mac ||
05/17/2007 19:06 Comments ||
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#36
what Alaska Paul said, Dittos!
Posted by: Red Dog ||
05/17/2007 19:07 Comments ||
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#37
what Alaska Paul said but also take away all of the free services that we give them! We need to relook at the anchor baby situation as well.
We give them more than our own citizens!
Posted by: Jan ||
05/17/2007 19:16 Comments ||
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#38
I am steamed today, Red Dog. I wrote my rant in Word and edited it for Rantburg. I did not want to be sinktrapped or turned into the FBI. Ima drinkin blueberry tea to calm down.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/17/2007 19:21 Comments ||
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#39
Michelle Malkin has a survey on her site: "Will you support a GOP presidential candidate who supports the Bush/Kennedy amnesty?".
I had trouble completing it, as there were no options stronger than 'Hell No!'
#41
Hell, I'm so damned angry right now that if I said what I REALLY feel, I'd be obligated to sinktrap myself-- or even put myself on Fred's pooplist.
It's times like this that make it a bit hard to argue against the "not a dime's worth of difference" crowd, that's for damned sure...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/17/2007 19:28 Comments ||
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#42
I am steamed today, Red Dog. I wrote my rant in Word and edited it for Rantburg. I did not want to be sinktrapped or turned into the FBI. Ima drinkin blueberry tea to calm down.
hey I don't blame you one bit AP, btw thanks for your comment, I'm tired today but you got me going!! ;-)
RE Illegal Aliens:
The lack of Constitutional due diligence on the part of our elected governors/reps/sen./president is not only heart breaking but it just about breaks the ancient contract between we the citizens and the State......United States of America in our case.
We citizens agree to serve in the Armed Forces, agree to pay our taxes, agree to abide by the laws, and swear our allegiance to the United States of America.
On the other hand we are entitled to protection from threats to our families and to our livelihoods from criminals, foreign spies, foreign governments, and non-citizens invading our Nation.
BTW Illegal Aliens here in America are not only the most costly and expensive illegals ever, they are corrosive to the very laws by which we are all governed by.
Is obedience to our Laws important to you?
Is the English language important to you?
Is the love of Country important to you?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
05/17/2007 20:06 Comments ||
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#43
Ship: Build the fence. Stop the flow. Sort out the mess later
that would be a start, but just like Cyber Sarge said,
I only had to read: "One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass." To know that I wanted no part of this.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
05/17/2007 20:11 Comments ||
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#45
They are spies under the Geneva convention and this being a time of war, a penalty is already in existence for this crime. Death. It won't require the use more than a few times, since once word gets out, they'll head back on their own. Time long past that we hold the Mexican government accountable for this invasion of our country and put an end to the enabling traitors that allow it to continue.
#48
I'm with what Alaska Paul in this. In addition:
Change the law so that someone born here gets citizenship only if BOTH parents are legal (either citizens or LEGAL residents).
Cut all federal funding to so-called 'sanctuary cities' and other governments as well as any local program which does not have a legally-here test.
Sorry major Nickles of Seattle - you want that spanking new expensive tunnel go beg from your illegal aliens workers for the money - after all since they are such a boom to the economy they should be able to pay for it right?
Do not give free medical, dental, or services to illegals except in immediate life-saving situations (and then only until they can get shipped out).
Deport illegals. If you have to create camps to house them until they can be shipped back. Yes this sounds like an 'internment camp' but they would be there according to their legal status.
Always refer to them as ILLEGAL ALIENS. To call them immigrants in any way, shape, or form is a insult to those who patiently waited for their turn to come here and be law-abiding legal residents (and then citizens).
Living in Silicon Valley, I've seen not only the impact of Hispanic gangswhich local police do a magnificent job of curtailingbut I also see how very little assimilation is going on.
My mother came over as a war-bride from Denmark. Eventually her entire family followed. Every single one of them learned fluent English and became productive American citizens Nothing of the sort can be said for a huge portion of those arriving from Mexico or overseas.
Here's a simple solution: MAKE IT EXCEPTIONALLY DIFFICULT TO REMIT MONEY TO MEXICO OR OVERSEAS WITHOUT PROOF OF LEGITIMATE IDENTITY AND TRACK REMITTANCES AGAINST INDIVIDUAL EARNINGS TO ENSURE AGAINST ANY POOLING FOR SAID TRANSFERS OF FUNDS.
This one single measure would deter a major fraction of illegal aliens here in America. It would also hasten the downfall of Mexico's hypercorrupt government whose economymuch like the Philippinesheavily depends upon outside monetary cash infusions for workers abroad.
Like Robert Crawford said, these illegal aliens are importing their culture of corruption and violence. Totaling up the costs of Hispanic gang violence, unlicensed and uninsured driving violations and accidents, medical aid and the immense amount of vandalism that Hispanic youth is so predisposed to committing and the final bill is in the BILLIONS.
I have long suspected that one reason our politicians love illegal workers is that their use of false Social Security numbers is pumping untold BILLIONS of dollars into the SSI fund so that it masks how our poilticians are raping it.
Illegal Hispanic immigration and legal Muslim immigration share a host of common and exceptionally corrosive aspects which our politicians should be defending us from. That they do not shows a distinct preference for a more tractableread: "purchasable"electorate, not to mention an arrogance and elitism that would be astounding were it not so viciously anti-American.
Like I said: Make it impossible for illegal aliens to send earnings out of this country. This will choke off a big portion of continued illegal immigration and encourage many others who are already here illegally to leave. It would also have a big positive effect on our own economy by increasing domestic spending. Such a measure would also require a major crackdown on the Muslim halawa network and that would only be great good news.
It is disgusting beyond words to see our government become an enemy of the people. This is betrayal writ large and represents a final demagnetization of America's political moral compass.
#50
why is it so clear to so many of us, but the folks who hold our future in the balance refuse to see it for what it is?!
This is madness! Thanks for this much needed release at least. I hope they will hear our emails and phone calls.
Posted by: Jan ||
05/17/2007 22:00 Comments ||
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#51
Read the leaked version of the bill. Its ASTOUNDING the concessions that are made.
It entitles them to financial aid for college, establishes a right to in state tuition, allows them to receive welfare and medicare/medicaid, and ll that without being required to go back.
There are even MORE goodies in the bill, including free federal aid for their defense if they are put on trial for lying on their immigration paperwork, and a mandate that the judges for immigration must have served as a lawyer FOR illegals for at least 3 years bofre they will consider him/her for a judge position.
#52
And by the way, the bill allows the 12 million here to bring over spouses, minor brothers & sisters and elderly parents, as well as children.
In other words its not 12 million, its more like 25 million.
Bush is an idiot and a sellout. If he'd stand strong and call it what it is, amnesty, instead of that damned idiot smirk and lying thru his teeth, the bill would have been DOA.
Im ready to let the left impeach Bush before he does any more damage. War Tsar, Gonzales, Botched Iraq by not telling the story or making us go to war instead of to the mall, Harriet Myers nomination... The man is an idiot.
#53
I'm going down to the courthouse tomorrow and changing my voter registration. Republican no more. And it's going to stay that way, unless Fred Thompson decides to run; then I'll change back in time to vote for him in the primaries.
Otherwise, fuck these idiots. Not a dime's worth of difference, indeed.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/17/2007 22:11 Comments ||
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#54
And by the way, yes I am furious over this betrayal. I faxed the Whitehouse my certificate they sent me for raising $10K, and told George the next time the party needed money try getting it in Pesos. Because they will never see another dollar form me - and I also wrote (real name and address), that I was going to support anyone that was trying to impeach the president, since I see this betrayal as damaging the US and a breach of his constitutional duties.
I;ve faxed my senators and Rep, and Sen Kyl (accusing him of selling out and quoting his web page to him as proof), and Sen McConnell - and the RNC, warning them that if they pass this they will be short my money in the next election. I'll support my candidate directly and keep the money out of their thieving backstabbing hands.
Congrats Bush, you just destroyed the Republican party. Idiot.
#56
Moderators: Would you please consider rolling this thread over to tomorrow. This is one of the more significant developments in domestic policy in some time. I'm sure that others besides myself would enjoy having Rantburg's collective thoughts on this bundled into one single source so that comparing notes would be much easier. As always, your efforts are deeply appreciated,
#57
Unfortunately, the immigration isue is being used by activists and Politicos as a broad-based cover for ANY AND ALL IMMIGRATION = HISPANIC/MINORITY ISSUES, including the LEGAL right and privelege of ILLEGALS TO STAY [LEGALLY]ILLEGAL, AND ON PERM OR NEAR-PERM PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, FOREVER WO TRYING TO EVER BECOME LEGAL.
Radical Islam has made it crystal clear that it has no qualms doing anything necessary to defeat the USA, in the ME or anywhere in the world. This includes using our own value systems + public institutions,etc, against ourselves. IN TIME OF WAR, ESPEC WAR FOR NATIONAL SURVIVAL WHICH THE WOT IS, "BORDER SECURITY" IS A PARAMOUNT NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE. LEFT > Year 2015-2020 > the USA must - MUST, NOW, M-U-S-T, NOT SHOULD OR MAY - adopt anti-US OWG-SWO by then or the Left reserves its right to resort to violence, anarchy, and even MUTUAL-DESTRUCTION, etal. to achieve same. BTWN NOW AND 2020, ANYTHING DESTABILIZING = NON-MUTUALLY DESTRUCTIVE GOES, WHICH AGAIN INCLUDES USING OUR OWN VALUES, SYSTEMS, AND POLITICS ETC. AGZ OURSELVES.
IMO, what Dubya-GOP should be saying is that any illegal whom does not formally declare himself [wid family-dependents] and file for citizenship-residency, i.e. legal status [wo penalty], before December 31, 2007 will be considered immed. deportable and treated as so, at all levels of law enforcement, jurisprudence, and other public authority. SEVEN MOS IS NOT LONG ENUFF TO DECLARE, OR EVEN BEGIN FORMAL, PRELIMINARY FILINGS - GET REAL!
A minister claimed on Wednesday that he was aware of several conspiracies against President Pervez Musharraf being hatched by people within the government, but said he will reveal them to the president only. I have many secrets to tell Gen Musharraf about the conspiracies against him and those conspiring against him, but will share them with him only, Justice (r) Abdul Razzaq Thaheem, minister for local government and rural development, told Daily Times at his residence on Wednesday.
The minister said he warned the president about such conspiracies at a meeting a couple of days ago, but didnt elaborate. Thaheem, who belongs to the Pakistan Muslim League-Functional (PML-F), a government coalition partner, said that he had not asked the president for a meeting in this regard.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Sounds like Perv better have a night of the long knives soon or he's going to be out on his ass.
Former prime minister Nawaz Sharif in an interview on Wednesday said that he had every intention of returning home and described President Pervez Musharraf as a gone man. According to Sharif, Musharrafs time in power is limited. He described him to The Times newspaper as a gone man whose options are totally exhausted and starting from today, [his fall] is simply a matter of time.
Speaking from his exiled central London home, Sharif added, protests are in every nook and cranny of the country...It is a positive development that people are realising that the dictator is destroying institutions. Sharif continued to say that Musharraf, who he described as erratic, unpredictable and impulsive, should have consulted with parliament and the Pakistani people before backing the United States in the so-called war on terror in 2001.
Musharraf is hoodwinking the international community, telling them that he is the only option except extremists, and that is absolute rubbish, Sharif said. He added that he felt personally let down by US President George W Bush, who is alienating 160 million Pakistanis for Musharraf.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#3
Will someone "remove" both of them from the "political process", along with all the madrassah leaders, lal majsid vermin, and anything else looking like a religious governing body? It's either that or the world needs to seek the end of the made state called "pakistan". It's beginning to look more and more necessary with each passing day.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
05/17/2007 17:26 Comments ||
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#4
Take away Pakistan's nukes and all nuke related infrastructure and they can do whatever they want. Just stay out of our way. Pakistan is the Sinktrap of the ME.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/17/2007 19:25 Comments ||
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Chief Cleric of Lal Masjid Maulana Abdul Aziz on Wednesday announced to terminate dialogue with PML President Shujaat Hussain on Jamia Hafsa crisis. In a statement, Maulana Abdul Aziz said the Lal Masjid administration had decided to end dialogue with Chaudhry Shujaat following the kidnapping of its madrassa students by government agencies. He said Abdul Basir, Abdul Haq, Ismail were among the kidnapped students. He said the Lal Masjid administration was sincere in carrying ahead the talks but the government had ditched it through kidnappings. The cleric also condemned the May 12 killings in Karachi and held MQM responsible for them.
This article starring:
ABDUL BASIR
Lal Masjid
ABDUL HAQ
Lal Masjid
MAULANA ABDUL AZIZ
Lal Masjid
PML President Shujaat Hussain
Lal Masjid
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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AQABA, Jordan-- Peace activists from Jordan, Palestine and Israel started a meeting here Wednesday as part of their concerted efforts to promote peace in the Middle East. The meeting, hosted by the Arab Future Studies Center for Democracy and Peace, gathers 200 peace celebrities from the three countries who are trying to chart an action plan and mechanism for promoting the Arab peace initiative. They are also lobbying for the initiative among regional civil society institutions, the Jordanian News Agency (PETRA) reported.
Addressing the meeting, chairman of the center Abdul-Salam Al-Majali reviewed the historical stages of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the developments of the Middle East peace process since 1991 Madrid Peace Conference. He asserted the importance of seizing the historic opportunity of the Arab peace initiative, adopted by the Arab leaders in Riyadh Summit late March. Al-Majali reminded the peace activists in Arab countries and Israel of their responsibility for promoting the initiative and realizing its targets. He urged for joint action to remove psychological barriers among the Middle East peoples, combat xenophobia and build confidence among them.
The two-day event includes panel discussions to exchange views on prospects of peace in the region.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday was "profoundly concerned" at the escalation of violence in Gaza among Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas, and the growing number of casualties on both sides, his spokesperson Michele Montas told the daily press briefing. "The deadly factional fighting has included unacceptable attacks on Palestinian Authority installations, institutions and personnel, and endangers civilians throughout Gaza," she said.
"Equally unacceptable," she added, "is the firing by Palestinian militants of rockets into Israel, targeting and injuring civilians." She said Ban "calls on all Palestinian factions to cease immediately all acts of violence. He calls on President Mahmoud Abbas, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh and the Palestinian Authority government to bring violence to an end and restore calm." Ban underlined the obligations on all parties involved to act in "strict accordance with international human rights and humanitarian law", and to ensure that humanitarian operations can continue without impediment.
"The first article in the UN charter clearly states 'No Hitting'. Don't make me turn this car around!"
#1
" She said Ban "calls on all Palestinian factions to cease immediately all acts of violence. He calls on President Mahmoud Abbas, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh and the Palestinian Authority government to bring violence to an end and restore calm."
#4
"Equally unacceptable is the firing by Palestinian militants of rockets into Israel, targeting and injuring civilians"
Holy crap! I can't believe the UN said this without first accusing Israel of provoking the palis and escalating tensions, and without first having to be accused of being pali-partisan!!
#6
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday was "profoundly concerned" at the escalation of violence in Gaza among Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas, and the growing number of casualties on both sides
That's a feature, not a bug.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
05/17/2007 13:29 Comments ||
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#7
UN chief frowns with concern in general direction of Gaza
No news here. It's what they been doing for decades, although usually more in Israel's direction. Must have been some sort of slip.
Iraq has invited Iranian firms to bid for contracts to build at least four oil refineries across the country, Iraq's oil ministry said on Wednesday in a sign of growing ties with the United States' regional foe. "Today, the Iranian firms have been invited to bid in building refineries which the ministry has already announced it was planning to build," spokesman Asim Jihad told Reuters.
Mustafa Alani, senior consultant and director of the security department at the Dubai-based Gulf Research Centre said the invitation for Iran to bid was probably politically motivated. Iran was unlikely to be able to meet Iraq's refining needs. "It doesn't make sense," he said. "First of all Iran doesn't have the know-how and the technology. Secondly, they are suffering from their own problems. They are short of supplies themselves and are looking at rationing oil products."
Iraq wants to build at least four refineries to help it solve chronic fuel shortages. The ministry said last year that it wants to build Nahrain, just south of Baghdad, with a capacity of 140,000 barrels per day. A second refinery at Kuya in the north, is projected at 70,000 bpd. Iraq also plans to build a refinery in Nassiriya, south of Iraq, for export purposes with a capacity of 300,000 bpd and another in southern Amara.
Jihad said that Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani agreed with the Iranian ambassador on Wednesday to activate an agreement to build a pipeline to carry about 200,000 bpd of Iraqi crude to Iran's southern refineries.
"They have agreed that the technical committees should begin within days mutual visits to discuss costs and the time they need to build the pipeline," Jihad said. "The Iranians will buy the crude based on market price."
#3
Think this is just pro forma. If Iranian firms had the wherewithal to build refineries, they would build them in Iran so that the Iranians didn't have to import most of their petroleum products. Maliki is making a nice, but empty gesture.
I think the Iraqis would be better off with G36, HK416 or FN SCAR. Direct gas operation and inshallah maintenance leads to unhappy encounters.
Posted by: ed ||
05/17/2007 06:57 ||
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#1
I think they should have gone with something they'd be assured of in getting replacement parts and ammo. I'm sure the Czechs and Poles could keep the inventory of Aks adequately up to standard. The 16 requires operator maintenance that is not consistent with the social norms of what passes as muzzie military formations.
#4
I agree on that. The HK416 would have been the better choice. Hell, if we're staying with 5.56 its the better choice for us as well.
You can fire a couple of magazines rounds down range, pop open the upper, slide the bolt out and put it in your bare hands. Try that with a 16 or conventional M4. Keeping gas away from the bolt and carrier means no carbon or fouling there, the lube stays intact not cooked and crud, meaning a clean extraction and longer life of those components - remember, its these parts that are the very ones that cause failures the most in an unmaintained weapon.
I wonder which corporate drone in Ordnance sold the poor Iraqis on using the same weapons? Buy the 416, uses US lowers, and US ammo and magazines, so logistically it has all the advantages as well, with the plus of being more reliable.
#9
Part of the decision is based on what the Iraqis perceive to be the inherent superiorities of the M-16 : the US uses them, and US troops kill the enemy in great numbers using rifle fire. The fact that those kill numbers are based mainly on the basic shooting skills demanded of all American troops nowadays, and not the weapon/caliber itself, is lost to much of the Iraqi public and military. Also, most of the Iraqi military is switching to US equipment ASAP : helmets, body armour, light armoured vehicles, etc.
After seeing how poorly Soviet/Russian equipment faired against American equipment, the Iraqis have decided to dump the old and bring in the new. So much of the US/Western equipment is so superior to the Soviet/Russian equivalent, that any single weapon's deficiency are lost in the crowd. Plus for the foreseeable future, the Iraqis figure that they are going to be dependent on the US logistical system, and so using US equipment makes sense that way as well.
#10
STRATEGYPAGE/DEFENSEDAILY > also getting 00's of M60 Pattons, M113's, and lessor USDOD surplus [Cold War]. One of my old ideas to the USDOD for modernizing the Pattons was to "Abram-ize" its turret and armor.
BAGHDAD: Traffic stopped in Baghdad's main streets and squares Wednesday as Iraqis observed a moment of silence to mark a new national day of remembrance for the victim's of Saddam Hussein's regime who were buried in mass graves. Human rights organizations estimate that more than 300,000 people, mainly Kurds and Shiite Muslims, were killed and buried in mass graves before Saddam was overthrown by U.S. forces in 2003.
The Iraqi government declared May 16 as Mass Grave Day to commemorate the day when the first such grave was uncovered near the Shiite town of Mahaweel, about 56 kilometers (35 miles) south of Baghdad. "It is a lesson that we will never forget," Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said. "We want to build a civilized society in which humanity is respected."
Cars and pedestrians stopped in place at noon, while policemen and Iraqi soldiers conducted a military salute.
During a conference held to commemorate the somber day, al-Maliki described the graves as one of "the ugly crimes" of Saddam's regime and drew a parallel with the current daily attacks against Iraqis. "The criminals are the same. In the past, they created the mass graves. Today, they explode, kill and behead innocent people," he said.
Al-Maliki, accompanied by several Cabinet ministers, also stepped out of the building housing his office Wednesday to observe a minute of silence and offer a prayer.
In the autonomous region of Kurdistan in northern Iraq, however, the day was not commemorated because the Kurds there were not notified, said Hutiyar Nouri, the deputy governor of the city of Sulaimaniyah, 260 kilometers (160 miles) northeast of Baghdad. Kurds annually mark the anniversary of the March 16, 1988 chemical attack on the northern Kurdish town of Halabja, which killed 5,000.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/17/2007 00:11 ||
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#1
Criminals are universal. Aquecience to adverse condition is not. life and limb is ALWAYS a DAILY issue.
#2
Tried and tried and finally gave up trying to post a photo here - don't know hot to put one in Comments. I've uploaded it to the photo gallery - Iraqi Mass Grave - The Blue Man. Photo taken at a 1991 uprising mass grave site in south-central Iraq, and the inspiration for John Burns' great front-page NYT story on the subject back in June '06. Wire services carried a nearly identical shot, but this one's mine.
#3
Tried and tried and finally gave up trying to post a photo here - don't know hot to put one in Comments.
Upload it to a free pic hosting website like http://www.flickr.com/ or http://photobucket.com/; then, copy the file's url and type *<*img src="" align=right*>* (minus the asteriks), with the url betwenn the scare quotes, note you can change alignment by typing center or left instead.
Hope that helps! Ohgawd, how I like lecturing people!
#4
Human rights organizations estimate that more than 300,000 people, mainly Kurds and Shiite Muslims, were killed and buried in mass graves before Saddam was overthrown by U.S. forces in 2003.
Not to mention the uncounted more murdered individually and in small groups, buried separately. All for a man who wanted to hold the whole world as he held Iraq.
Yitgadal v'yitkadash, Sh'mai rabbah. May their memories be a blessing for those from whom they were taken, and aid the living to repair their much-battered country.
#5
Why not use the Lancet methodology and move the total up to 10 million. You can use statistics with a variance of over 90% with the cited count being the low ball figure. /sarcasm off
#6
I would like to see Hillary dust off her "Women Were Better Off Under Saddam Hussein" speech. I think the compassion and understanding would really comfort the Iraqis on this sorrowful day.
#7
The Iraqis can bring their nation to a halt in mourning for all those who died at Saddam's hands but just cannot bring themselves to show some real gratitude over how we liberated them from from his murderous grasp. Fuck them all.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari on Wednesday rejected a Pakistani proposal for a Muslim peacekeeping force to be sent to Iraq. President Pervez Musharraf floated the proposal on Tuesday, at the start of a meeting of foreign ministers of Islamic nations being hosted by Pakistan. We have reservations on this proposal, Zebari told reporters, adding his government had objected to such suggestions in the past as well. Zebari said his government wanted Iraqi troops to look after the countrys security for when the US and its allies attack the nation. So, my governments position is not for welcoming any more troops, Zebari said.
The Iraqi minister met with his Iranian counterpart, Manouchehr Mottaki, at the foreign ministers meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC). He described the meeting as very good, positive, and said they discussed upcoming security talks in Baghdad involving Iraq, Iran and the US.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Hey Perv, howsa bout a few peaceniks in Wazoo land ? Maybe they could locate the One Eyed Gargoyle and his pal Binny.
A large group of the residents of the Green Zone in Baghdad made a demonstration condemning the arrest of Sheikh Muthanna al-Rawi who is a member of the Association of Muslim Scholars, imam and preacher of al-Rafi mosque in the same area. The demonstrators blamed the occupation and Iraqi government for the crime and having full responsibility for the safety of Sheikh al-Rawi. Protestors called for his immediate release.
The forces of so-called "maintenance of order" belong to the Interior Ministry arrested Sheikh al-Rawi on last Sunday during the congregation to perform evening prayers at the mosque. The people of the area confirmed that Sheikh was always active to help to the people of the area, to serve immigrants from other regions, to distribute food and humanitarian aid to them.
This article starring:
SHEIKH MUTHANNA AL RAWI
Association of Muslim Scholars
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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And if the Times says they're lurching, they're lurching!
Gaza was on the brink of civil war last night as violent clashes between Palestinian factions spiralled out of control. Mahmoud Abbas, the ineffectual Palestinian President, threatened to declare a state of emergency today, as fierce fighting raged on the streets.
But as the death toll climbed to more than 40 in four days of the worst fighting since Mr Abbas forged a coalition Government with Fatahs rival Hamas two months ago, he appeared powerless to stop it. Neither faction has been able or particularly willing to enforce three separate ceasefires declared in as many days. Rare, high-level talks between Mr Abbas and Khaled Meshaal, Hamass terrorist exiled leader, failed to produce any results beyond a loose agreement that the violence should end.
Hamas issued orders for its fighters to lay down their weapons late yesterday but there was no indication whether the order would be obeyed.
You mean Hamas gunnies don't obey orders? Mwha-ha-ha.
At least 16 Palestinians were shot dead in internecine fighting yesterday and four Hamas gunmen were killed when an Israeli helicopter helizapped bombed their training camp near Rafah.
Last night Palestinian politicians cautioned that if the violence continued, it would not only trigger the collapse of the Palestinian unity Government, but could also spell the end of the Palestinian Authority itself. If the unity Government falls, the Palestinian Authority will dissolve, said Mustafa Barghouti, the Palestinian Information Minister.
Boy howdy that'd be a shame.
He said Mr Abbas had told his Cabinet on Monday night: This is my Government and if it falls, I will fall with it. Such a scenario would strip the occupied territories of official Palestinian rule. Israel, as the occupying power, would then be forced to resume full control of the West Bank and Gaza.
Except they're not occupying Gaza, and they can seal off the West Bank. You boys wanted to be sovereign -- congrats, you got it.
Mr Abbass resignation would effectively sever ties between the Palestinians and the West, which refuses to deal with the militant Hamas movement.
Some Palestinian analysts predict that a collapse of the Palestinian Authority would pave the way for Jordanian custodial rule in the West Bank and a similar arrangement for Egypt in Gaza. The message is the Palestinians cannot rule themselves and never could. This fighting will only end if a third party takes over, said Ibrahim Abrash, a political analyst in Gaza.
Oh sure, that's all it takes, the Egyptians and Jordanians were so good at keeping the Paleos under control before '67 ...
At the heart of the current conflict lies the unresolved rivalry between Mr Abbass Fatah Party and Hamas, led by Ismail Haniya, the Prime Minister. Despite a Saudi-brokered power-sharing agreement signed by the two leaders in March in Mecca aimed at ending factional fighting and restoring economic aid to the Palestinian Authority, the Unity Government has failed to achieve either goal.
The resignation of Hani al-Qawasmeh, the Governments top security official, this week, highlighted the bitter divide between Hamas and Fatah over who controls the Palestinian security forces. The promise of peace under unified rule has failed to trump factional loyalties, which have only become more deeply entrenched as law and order dissolves.
Hamas has accused Fatah of collaborating with Washington, and accepting money and arms to bolster Mr Abbass elite Presidential Guard.
Collaborate with Washington? There's a death sentence.
Fatah counters that Hamas fighters are undermining the unity Governments non-existent authority and the Palestinian cause by refusing to lay down their weapons or fall into rank.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Do I detect a new buzz word? internecine fighting 1 : marked by slaughter : DEADLY; especially : mutually destructive
2 : of, relating to, or involving conflict within a group
#3
Why would Egypt and Jordan want to get involved?
Let the UN fix it.
Posted by: Bobby ||
05/17/2007 6:36 Comments ||
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#4
If Jordon got back the West Bank, King Abdullah could repatriate the refugees currently temporarily housed in Ein el-Hilweh, which as so oft repeated is the refugees fondest dream. Not to mention getting back that bit of his patrimony lost to those uppity Jews in 1967.
#9
Lurching? How about: sliding, inching, heading towards, totters on the brink of, spiralled out of control towards...
I don't know why the Israelis want to get into this fray. I suggest they take a tea and bagel break that lasts for sometime or a religious trip to the Wailing Wall or an extended holiday trip. Anything. Let it go for awhile. How about gaming Iran's nuke capability.
Israel, as the occupying power, would then be forced to resume full control of the West Bank and Gaza.
Except they're not occupying Gaza, and they can seal off the West Bank. You boys wanted to be sovereign -- congrats, you got it.
The withdrawl did not make them sovereign. They did not issue a declaration of ind, and Israel did not declare them independent either. All Israel did was withdraw troops and settlers from some areas that Israel was entitled to keep troops under Oslo. Technically Israel is still the "occupying power" under international law, though its obviously not conducting an "occupation" in Gaza in the normal english (as opposed to legalese) sense of the term. Just as it remains the occupying power in the West Bank, despite large areas having been under PA control since Oslo.
Now Oslo specified areas under Israeli control, and under PA control, and under mixed control. Its not clear if the PA were to dissolve (something that i think is less likely than these statements indicate) whether Israel would HAVE to move back in. But presumably if they did not, theyd have to formall withdraw any claim of sovereignty, even one for use as a negotiating chip. Also would have to cede their rights over movement in and out via the sea, Egypt, etc. I can see them eager to do that wrt Gaza (with some reservations) , with the West Bank it would be far more complicated.
2. Egypt and Jordan reoccupying
That would be an excellent outcome for Israel. It would not be return to the status quo of May 1967, as Israel now has diplo relations and peace treaties with those countries. Did they often fail to control the local Pals? The Egyptians controlled them as much as they wanted to. the jordans had trouble, cause of subversion from Syria. Syria is fair bit more isolated than when they had the USSR at their back.
#11
The PA elections were seen as a step towards de jure sovereignty. Sharon pulling out and the border fortifications were de facto moves. They got their state and it perfectly reflects their unique 'national' culture. Congrats to them.
LH makes a great point that as 'occupiers' (Evil Zionist though they may be) Israel may actually have a technical obligation to re-enter Gaza if the PA government disintegrates. Would be funny to hear the UN try to hold them to it.
As for Jordan and Egypt: Israel would be delighted. It would be easy to restrict by treaty certain types of weapons systems Egypt would be allowed to bring in and Israel could have liason officers with Egyptian headquarters.
I suppose this end state is possible if the savagery plays out for another year or so. It really could be the closest thing to 'peace' in the Middle East we could hope for.
#14
Some Palestinian analysts predict that a collapse of the Palestinian Authority would pave the way for Jordanian custodial rule in the West Bank and a similar arrangement for Egypt in Gaza. The message is the Palestinians cannot rule themselves and never could. This fighting will only end if a third party takes over, said Ibrahim Abrash, a political analyst in Gaza. Oh sure, that's all it takes, the Egyptians and Jordanians were so good at keeping the Paleos under control before '67 ...
Actually, those territories WERE those nations' territory, and would have been included in the peace settlements Israel had with those nations. The "Palestinians are a separate people deserving of a separate nation." is a bunch of bull, being a fabrication to lay the foundation for the current situation by leveraging the Leftist romance of "peoples fighting for self-determination". In return for this, they would continue the war against Israel while ensuring that Jordan and Egypt would not be held accountable.
Because of this, Jordan and Egypt will NEVER take the territories back until Israel is destroyed.
Warring Palestinian factions agreed to a new ceasefire on Wednesday after 15 more Palestinians were killed in Gaza. Four days of fighting have renewed fears of a full-scale civil war in Gaza and left the fragile cabinet uniting President Mahmud Abbas Fatah party and the Hamas movement teetering just two months after it assumed office.
Hamas ordered its fighters to halt their fire at 1700 GMT, while Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas ordered troops loyal to his Fatah movement to do the same immediately. This marks the fourth truce agreed upon by the rivals since fighting flared on Sunday. Hamas has decided on a unilateral ceasefire to protect the blood of the Palestinians, the chief of Hamass faction in parliament, Khalil al-Hayya told AFP. Hamas is ready for dialogue to solve all problems. In Ramallah, Abbass office said that, the president has ordered all security services and their armed men to cease their fire immediately.
Earlier, Israel bombed a Hamas training camp in Gaza, killing two people, after a barrage of militant rockets fired from the territory, medics and witnesses said.
As international calls for a halt to the violence mounted, Abbas and Hamas exiled political supremo Khaled Meshaal agreed to work to halt the bloodshed which is threatening to collapse the unity cabinet and peace efforts. Palestinian Information Minister Mustafa Barghuti said that Abbas and Meshaal agreed in a telephone call on the necessity to put an end to the bloody events between Hamas and Fatah in Gaza.
Abbas was due to travel to Gaza on Thursday and Deputy Prime Minister Azzam al-Ahmad warned that he could declare a state of emergency in the territory. If the presidents efforts to end these events do not succeed, he will quickly turn to the Palestine Liberation Organisation to take a series of measures, including declaring a state of emergency, Ahmad said after a meeting of the PLO executive committee in Ramallah.
Five Fatah men were killed on Wednesday in a brazen attack with grenades, anti-tank shells and mortar rounds by Hamas on the Gaza home of the pro-Fatah Palestinian security supremo, Rashid Abu Shbak, who escaped unscathed.
Later in the day, Hamas fighters fired anti-tank shells at the building containing the apartment of the head of the pro-Fatah preventative security force in Gaza City, without causing injuries. Another eight people, including one civilian, were killed when Hamas fighters fired anti-tank shells on a Fatah vehicle carrying detainees of the movement.
This article starring:
Deputy Prime Minister Azzam al-Ahmad
KHALED MESHAAL
Hamas
KHALIL AL HAIYA
Hamas
MUSTAFA BARGHUTI
Palestinian Authority
Palestinian security supremo, Rashid Abu Shbak
Palestine Liberation Organisation
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Someone should ask pancake's folks about the recent Gaza shenanigans. And where is Adam Shapiro when you need him.
#3
How do they actually decide when the third ends and the fourth begins or the fourth ends and the fifth begins? I guess the other question is does anyone really care?
The US military has rejected Iran's petition for a consular visit of the five kidnapped Iranian diplomats currently held in Iraq by US troops, Press TV reported.
The US refusal of Iran's legitimate demand is contradictory to international conventions, a source told Fars News Agency under a promise of anonymity. The source continued that the Islamic Republic had submitted several official demands, one through the Red Cross, for a visit by Consular staff, but none has received a response from the US.
The kidnapped diplomats - Nasser Baqeri, Mousa Chegini, Abbas Hatami Kakavand, Hamid Asgari Shokouh, and Majid Qa'emi - are currently in the custody of American forces.
"Such illegal acts fuel insecurity and instability in Iraq and might prevent other countries from opening consular offices in that war-torn country," the source said.
The US claimed the diplomats were meddling in Iraqi domestic affairs. Iran maintains that the Americans are attempting to cover their failures through such accusations. Iran says if the US officials have any documented proof, they should present it.
Lebanon's Syrian-backed opposition on Wednesday warned against plans for a U.N. resolution to set up an international court over the 2005 killing of former Premier Rafik Hariri. Parliament speaker Nabih Berri, a member of the Hezbollah-led opposition, accused the anti-Syrian majority in parliament of sabotaging efforts to reach an accord in Beirut to establish the court without foreign interference.
He said in a meeting with U.S. Middle East envoy David Welch he had been working for months to clinch a national consensus on the tribunal. "The problem is not the tribunal but the creation of a government of national unity," a key demand of the opposition whose six ministers quit the Western-backed cabinet last November, said Berri.
With the political crisis now six months old, the United States said on Tuesday it expects to circulate a draft resolution in the UN Security Council this week to create the court. "We expect to introduce a resolution before the end of this week," U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Zalmay Khalilzad told reporters in New York, adding it was in response to a request from Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's government.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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Top Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives moved Tuesday to step up sanctions on Syria and encourage overthrow of that regime. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and four others introduced the Syria Accountability and Liberation Act, an update of the 2003 Syrian Accountability and Lebanese Liberation Act, which had the unanimous support of the House.
The bill establishes a program "to support pro-democracy advocates and human rights dissidents in Syria toward transition to a government that does not pose a threat to the United States, our interests, and our allies," according to Ros-Lehtinen's office. The language is similar to that contained in the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which the Bush administration cited as part of its justification for and approval for the 2003 invasion. That bill established it as the "policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."
Many of the foreign fighters and Sunni insurgents in Iraq are believed by U.S. intelligence to use Syria as a safe harbor and transit point for funds, weapons and fighters. It is also a key destination for the smuggling of Iraqi oil. "Syria's state-sponsorship of Islamist terrorist organizations, including those conducting attacks in Iraq, its development of unconventional weapons capabilities, and brutal oppression of the Syrian people must be immediately addressed before it escalates to the level of threat posed by Iran today," said Ros-Lehtinen.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
You just know MOUD is gonna start twiddlin' his thumbs.
#3
I think she will probably don the head scarf thingee and threaten to invoke a 1922 procedural rule or withold money from regime change funding or ask Harry Reid to declare that all is lost.
Alexander Torshin, vice speaker of Russia's Federation Council, said Wednesday in Beirut that the task of setting up an international tribunal to try suspects in the murder of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was like that of a jewel-maker who requires sufficient time. "We in Russia certainly support the international tribunal and so does President [Emile] Lahoud," said Torshin after a meeting with Lahoud in Baabda. "There are many details with regard to this tribunal, and we Russians are following them closely at the United Nations. "It is like a jeweler. He needs enough time to get a piece of art done well and beautifully, the same as the establishment of the international tribunal."
Torshin's trip to Beirut coincides with the visit of the US Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs David Welch, who arrived on Tuesday. The Russian legislator also warned that foreign intervention in Lebanon's domestic affairs would "hamper any consensus among the Lebanese and block any possible meeting among them to reach agreement on all pending matters. "Russia wants to see an independent, sovereign Lebanon, a Lebanon that is run without foreign interference," he added. That'd be us...
Looking back, the Hariri hit on Valentine's Day 2005 was the point at which the wheels started falling off the WoT wagon. Dubya had just been reinaugurated for his second term, with a pocket full of "political capital" and majorities in both houses of Congress. Fred had been fairly confident that Assad was on his way out, calling for his ouster before 9/11/05, and I believe that Fred was right. And then a beirut street blew up under Hariri's convoy. I now think was Iran's probe of world response to the most flagrant and dire provocation, via Syria via Hezbollah. And Iran learned the world would do absolutely nothing, and that's when they ramped up the men and materiel flooding into Iraq, poked the Tater Tots with a very sharp stick, and began blowing the bejabbers out of our patrols.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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ION, SPACEWAR > CHINA's NEW MISSLES TO TARGET US CARRIERS - DONGFENG IRBMS to be modified to have anti-carrier capability, + DONGFENG-41's reportedly being dev to strike USA; + WAFF.com > THE DEATH OF AMERICA > ASIA TIMES:IMPERIAL LIQUIDATION. Iff only Amer can spend less on its own agenda = or in altern spend as much as other nations do on theirs. Amer under Dubya goin' down the wrong path, ergo is at risk of losing our democracy and freedoms ergo AMER MUST WORK TO DISMANTLE ITS NEWFOUND EMPIRE + US MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL-GOVT COMPLEX SUPPORTING OUR WILY DASTARDLY ESTABLISHMENT AND IMPERIAL WAYS-POLICIES. Also in SPACEWAR > US UPSET AT RUSSIA-MYANMAR [Burma] NUKE REACTOR DEAL.
#3
Alexander Torshin, vice speaker of Russia's Federation Council, said Wednesday in Beirut that the task of setting up an international tribunal to try suspects in the murder of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was like that of a jewel-maker who requires sufficient time.
yeah right...
Posted by: Peter Carl Fabergé ||
05/17/2007 14:39 Comments ||
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BEIRUT: Visiting US Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs David Welch said Wednesday that Lebanon's next president "should not be beholden to outside parties." That'd be Syria...
Welch repeatedly insisted the US has "no opinion to express on who should be president," and the matter is for Parliament to decide, adding that the Lebanese also expect their representatives to do their duty.
While Welch said his government does not expect the next Lebanese president to "agree with the United States all the time," the US does expect the leader will not acquiesce to any external party. "The Lebanese people have a unique opportunity now to take their future in their hands by electing a new president on time and in accordance with the Constitution," he said during a news conference at the Grand Serail after a 90-minute meeting with Prime Minister Fouad Siniora.
On the last day of his two-day visit, the US envoy held a string of meetings with Lebanese officials Wednesday, including Speaker Nabih Berri, former President Amin Gemayel and Army commander General Michel Suleiman. He also met Change and Reform Bloc leader MP Michel Aoun and Lebanese Forces leader Samir Geagea. "For the members of Lebanon's democratically elected Parliament, casting a vote for president, freely and without coercion, would be a significant milestone toward the Lebanese people's goal of sovereignty and independence," Welch said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/17/2007 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
A minister claimed on Wednesday that he was aware of several conspiracies against President Pervez Musharraf being hatched by people within the government, but said he will reveal them to the president only. I have many secrets to tell Gen Musharraf about the conspiracies against him and those conspiring against him, but will share them with him only, Justice (r) Abdul Razzaq Thaheem, minister for local government and rural development, told Daily Times at his residence on Wednesday. 
Former prime minister Nawaz Sharif in an interview on Wednesday said that he had every intention of returning home and described President Pervez Musharraf as a gone man. According to Sharif, Musharrafs time in power is limited. He described him to The Times newspaper as a gone man whose options are totally exhausted and starting from today, [his fall] is simply a matter of time.
AQABA, Jordan-- Peace activists from Jordan, Palestine and Israel started a meeting here Wednesday as part of their concerted efforts to promote peace in the Middle East. The meeting, hosted by the Arab Future Studies Center for Democracy and Peace, gathers 200 peace celebrities from the three countries who are trying to chart an action plan and mechanism for promoting the Arab peace initiative. They are also lobbying for the initiative among regional civil society institutions, the Jordanian News Agency (PETRA) reported.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday was "profoundly concerned" at the escalation of violence in Gaza among Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas, and the growing number of casualties on both sides, his spokesperson Michele Montas told the daily press briefing. "The deadly factional fighting has included unacceptable attacks on Palestinian Authority installations, institutions and personnel, and endangers civilians throughout Gaza," she said.
At least 16 Palestinians were shot dead in internecine fighting yesterday and four Hamas gunmen were killed when an Israeli helicopter 
Warring Palestinian factions agreed to a new ceasefire on Wednesday after 15 more Palestinians were killed in Gaza. Four days of fighting have renewed fears of a full-scale civil war in Gaza and left the fragile cabinet uniting President Mahmud Abbas Fatah party and the Hamas movement teetering just two months after it assumed office. 
Lebanon's Syrian-backed opposition on Wednesday warned against plans for a U.N. resolution to set up an international court over the 2005 killing of former Premier Rafik Hariri. Parliament speaker Nabih Berri, a member of the Hezbollah-led opposition, accused the anti-Syrian majority in parliament of sabotaging efforts to reach an accord in Beirut to establish the court without foreign interference.
Top Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives moved Tuesday to step up sanctions on Syria and encourage overthrow of that regime. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and four others introduced the Syria Accountability and Liberation Act, an update of the 2003 Syrian Accountability and Lebanese Liberation Act, which had the unanimous support of the House.
