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2008-02-19 Home Front: Politix

Arizona Mulls Concealed Carry Rights At Schools

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Posted by CrazyFool 2008-02-19 00:45|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 Opponents say police officers urgently responding to a school shooting might have difficulty distinguishing innocent permit-holders from the gunman.

Too easy, "innocent permit holders" holster their weapons upon demand and assume the position.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-02-19 08:22|| 2008-02-19 08:22|| Front Page Top

#2 The truth of the matter is that while CC at school is good, unless the students with CC are organized by the school into a "defensive militia", it will have little effect.

Tactically, this is because few if any will even be aware that a hostile incident has taken place, unless they are notified. Even then, they will be at a severe disadvantage "in the attack" against the shooter.

The way around this is for a paging system, to alert CC students of an incident. Then, with their cell phones, they call a prearranged number to get information including approximate location. From that point, they are all on the same sheet of music, and this is where it gets interesting.

They DO NOT go "hunting" the gunman. Instead, all CC students go to a concealed area at or near the front of whatever building they are in (assuming the shooter is not right on top of them.)

They DO NOT "brandish", and instead keep a defensive position, looking for armed and hostile individuals.

This gives them and everybody a much better tactical position. To begin with, they are in a safer, defensible place.

Second, a hostile shooter who leaves his first position will be in the open and visible, and much more likely to be observed, whether he tries to move to a new location or even leave campus. The CC students will still have their cell phones.

Third, they will not become targets themselves by law enforcement who think they are the shooter.

Granted, most school administrations would *never* want CC students in the first place, *nor* to have anything to do with them in the second, so both of these things have to be mandated by the State governments. In addition, schools would have to be ordered to test the system at intervals, to insure that it worked.

But doing things this way, as a voluntary system, would be a way to have an "instant campus security system".

Importantly, though CC holders would prefer to "go it alone", organizing such a group themselves, it wouldn't work as well as a school run militia, as continuity in such groups is terrible, and ordinary attrition is high. That is, 100% of seniors leave each year, and 50% of freshman attrit for academic reasons.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-19 09:00|| 2008-02-19 09:00|| Front Page Top

#3 THe police argument is BS. A CC weapons holder will immediately obey the officer's commands.

And if the officers are that poorly trained perhaps THEY should not be carrying - they are a menace to society.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-02-19 10:29|| 2008-02-19 10:29|| Front Page Top

#4 It's funny that the author thinks so little of police, yet wants to utterly rely on them for public safety.

Posted by Iblis 2008-02-19 12:08|| 2008-02-19 12:08|| Front Page Top

#5 I would be interested to know -- at any of the college campuses, how many combat experienced vets and active military, active police folks are on campus? Plus ROTC folks, usually are all over those campuses.

More and more of our returning vets are attending college, lots of National Guard attend college -- they have joined to serve, and on any given day, most buildings on campus is probably got at least one if not more of these folks there.

Seems to me, they joined to protect us, their role is to protect us -- so let's let them do it.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-02-19 13:15|| 2008-02-19 13:15|| Front Page Top

#6 Every place there have been armed citizens, the attempted slaughters have failed. Appalachian Law School, and more recently the church in Colorado. Every gun-free zone they have killed and wounded lots more.

Do the math, people.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-02-19 14:37|| 2008-02-19 14:37|| Front Page Top

#7 My daughters' classes are fairly thick with veterans, Sherry - but she is going to a junior college in San Antonio, a town better known as "The Mother-In-Law of the Air Force", due to all the AF personnel who have married and/or retired there.
When the Virginia Tech shooting happened, it was the talk of her classes, especially among those who are young veterans. She and two of her USMC veteran friends basically worked out a defense plan which called for them to get everyone else down and quiet on the floor, with the classroom doors locked and the lights turned off, in hopes that any roving gunman would think the classroom was unoccupied and move on. She and the other two veterans did plan to barricade the door with chairs and desks, if that didn't work.
Just to know what real gunfire sounds like, to have some kind of action plan skulled out beforehand and the willingness to act on it is about the best defense possible against a VT-type shooter, short of permitting CC on campus.

Posted by Sgt. Mom">Sgt. Mom 2008-02-19 14:50|| http://www.celiahayes.com]">[http://www.celiahayes.com] 2008-02-19 14:50|| Front Page Top

#8 The truth of the matter is that while CC at school is good, unless the students with CC are organized by the school into a "defensive militia", it will have little effect.

No it will have NO effect, the School will demand that any "Evil Guns" be locked in a safe that only the principal has any key too, no guns available, no "defense".

Posted by Redneck Jim 2008-02-19 15:43|| 2008-02-19 15:43|| Front Page Top

#9 Sgt. Mom -- that's good to know! And I bet, like your daughter, most vets in school have done the same thing she and her friends have done!

And, I know about Military City, USA -- I'm just up the road a ways!

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-02-19 15:44|| 2008-02-19 15:44|| Front Page Top

#10 Redneck Jim: I got over that point at the very start, with the State legislature *having* to mandate that student CC on campus was legal. That means no gun locking up by the administration.

From there, the State would *also* have to mandate the school provide a paging system that works, and test and use that system.

Sure, there is always the danger that the school wouldn't use the system in a real emergency, so there would have to be a redundancy demand on individuals responsible for doing so.

If they do not use the system, or refuse to, they are *personally* liable for student injury and death after the time when they could have notified CC holders, but didn't.

Administrators are jellyfish, but are very clear on the concept of: "Do this or you will get your personal butt sued off, without university support."

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-19 23:40|| 2008-02-19 23:40|| Front Page Top

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