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2008-04-10 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

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Posted by ed 2008-04-10 10:53|| || Front Page|| [10 views ] Top

#1 Well, Iran will have the bomb in 2-3 years, if not sooner. What'cha gonna do, W?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-04-10 11:06|| 2008-04-10 11:06|| Front Page Top

#2 Gee, General Darth - what do you expect him to do?

Posted by Pappy 2008-04-10 12:42|| 2008-04-10 12:42|| Front Page Top

#3 Gee, Major limpdick Pappy, how about fucking nothing since he is in complete "legacy mode"?

Instead of smart ass and insulting comment from a Mod, how about a useful comment?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-04-10 12:59|| 2008-04-10 12:59|| Front Page Top

#4 You mean the Iranians are going to get their processing plant built before USEC gets their's done?

Posted by Penguin 2008-04-10 14:43|| 2008-04-10 14:43|| Front Page Top

#5 It's not like we have to invade Iran and occupy it. Just bomb the hell out of them. Sounds like an excellent opportunity to try out some of those new super-bunker busters. If that doesn't work then nuke the bastards. It's better than letting them nuke Tel Aviv or Jerusalem and they've already said that's exactly what they'll do. Doing nothing while the mad Mullahs develop nuclear weapons is highly irresponsible.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2008-04-10 16:17|| 2008-04-10 16:17|| Front Page Top

#6 Gee, Major limpdick Pappy, how about fucking nothing since he is in complete "legacy mode"?

Wrong rank, for starters.

Nothing? I dunno...

Right now, the US Fifth Fleet (on Iran's doorstep) has been supplemented by European naval forces. The kind that can be used for interdiction.

The Europeans have been the ones spearheading sanctions against the Iranians. They've also been somewhat proactive against Iranian influence in the Med. With the exception of Germany, Iran's relations with Euro countries, particularly France, have deteriorated as a result.

The Chinese (and others) have provided the IAEA with information about Iran's nuclear program. May not seem like much, but for a nation that has rountinely blocked or hindered action against Iran, it is significant. There are indications that the Chinese may not object to additional UN-imposed sanctions (at least not until a certain sporting event is over).

Iran's banking system is under extreme stress due to sanctions placed on it by the US Treasury. Internal sources within Iran indicate that people are hoarding gold. Iranian corporations are having a hard time getting letters of credit to import or export. They can't get their petrochemical industry modernized. It's also partly why Hesb'allah is now engaging in 'additional funding' activities.

While it isn't bullets flying, it is a hell of a lot more than was happening a year ago. If you're trying to get your toddler to use the bathroom instead of urinating on the carpet, it's an improvement if he urinates on the bathroom floor instead.

And guess what? None of this took place in a vacuum.

As much the Wrap-Em-In-Bacon Brigade wants to see mushroom clouds over Qom, it isn't gonna happen. At least not that way, and not until other... external conditions... rectify themselves.

Instead of smart ass and insulting comment from a Mod, how about a useful comment?

Funny, that's what I was asking you for.

BTW, I didn't comment as a mod; it would have been in gray highlight if I had.

Posted by Pappy 2008-04-10 16:41|| 2008-04-10 16:41|| Front Page Top

#7 Pappy, you trust Chinese intel? The same Chinese who aided the development of Paki nukes? The same Chinese who sell us poisoned dog food and poisoned toothpaste? The commie bastards who make mischief in Nepal and India and point their own nukes at us?

I don't.

So, if I don't know how far along the Iranian nuke program is, I'm extremely uncomfortable playing the sanctions game against a government that doesn't give a rat's ass how badly their own people suffer.

This is the government that advocates death to Israel and death to America. I could tolerate all that chanting if they weren't trying so hard to find a way to actually do it.

Now I'm sure the president knows more about this subject than I do and I hope I can trust him. But knowing what little I know, if I was the president, I would start bombing immediately.

Posted by treo 2008-04-10 20:19|| 2008-04-10 20:19|| Front Page Top

#8 Where's the love? Can't we all get long?

/Abu Rodney King

Pappy's on the money - what would you have W do in the political environment we currently have? Bomb Iran? The Donks are refusing to address the Iran issue, and barring a flagrant casus belli (i.e.: Direct Iranian military intervention - ain't gonna happen) would call for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney(!) if they had a chance - true fifth column, but Pappy's dealing in realism, not nuke-em-all-via-Arclight-then-napalm-the-rest, which, while emotionally satisfying, isn't real

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-04-10 21:31|| 2008-04-10 21:31|| Front Page Top

#9 Pappy, you trust Chinese intel? The same Chinese who aided the development of Paki nukes? The same Chinese who sell us poisoned dog food and poisoned toothpaste? The commie bastards who make mischief in Nepal and India and point their own nukes at us?

Do I 'trust' the intel? No. But I do consider that:

The Chinese don't do anything that isn't in their interest. They went from protecting Iran, to providing the IAEA with intel. And within a six-month time-frame.

The IAEA has been quiet about what they've received. To me that means there's some susbtance. The media would have heard about anything that wasn't and latched on like they did that one NIE.

If they did provide credible intel, and the IAEA thinks it's credible, somebody applied pressure to the right place.

So, if I don't know how far along the Iranian nuke program is, I'm extremely uncomfortable playing the sanctions game against a government that doesn't give a rat's ass how badly their own people suffer.

I'm not crazy about sanctions either, if they're used as a sole weapon instead of being used along with a host of other tactics.

This is the government that advocates death to Israel and death to America. I could tolerate all that chanting if they weren't trying so hard to find a way to actually do it.

They're not the first.

Now I'm sure the president knows more about this subject than I do and I hope I can trust him. But knowing what little I know, if I was the president, I would start bombing immediately.

I wouldn't, but I can think up a slew of ways to 'encourage' the Iranians to change their minds. But neither you or I are in that position.

Posted by Pappy 2008-04-10 21:40|| 2008-04-10 21:40|| Front Page Top

#10 Wrong rank, for starters.

Well, I don't give a flying shit what your rank is. Insinuating someone is an armchair general is insulting enough and at this point I don't care if you are the fucking flag admiral of the fifth fleet.

BTW, I didn't comment as a mod; it would have been in gray highlight if I had.

Bullshit. You are a mod, therefore you speak as one. As a former moderator myself (see the Master of Orion III webpage as it was coming out), insulting the posters is way, way, way out of line and unacceptable as a moderator. Cops don't get away with talking shit to people out of uniform, because, they are always a cop. Same goes for mods. There are no "Out of Mod" comments. You represent the sight and insulted me and really pissed me off. I know you don't care one way or another, but that is how I feel and am will to go to the Triarii with it.

Right now, the US Fifth Fleet (on Iran's doorstep) has been supplemented by European naval forces. The kind that can be used for interdiction.

There has been a fleet in the Persian gulf since the 1980s. I don't see any change in policy unless the political rhetoric is increased, I don't see an attack coming. Could be wrong, but the current and previous administrations do not attack "without warning". W could change that, but I doubt it with an election coming up.

The Chinese (and others) have provided the IAEA with information about Iran's nuclear program. May not seem like much, but for a nation that has routinely blocked or hindered action against Iran, it is significant.

I trust the Chinese as far as I can throw their collective asses. They are playing both sides against each other and will do so for America to be overstretched and cannot respond to Chinese interests, including the invasion of Taiwan, and in the Pacific. How better to do so than to release information that plays into what the administration is currently seeing in Iran. Works even better if the information is mostly true.

Iran's banking system is under extreme stress due to sanctions placed on it by the US Treasury.

They have been under stress since the Iran-Iraq war and US sanctions. Their oil infrastructure has been falling apart since then. Yet they still can make new Uranium enrichment plants and 6,000 more centrifuges. I'll believe their economy has collapsed when they have people dragging Mullah bodies through the streets.

If you're trying to get your toddler to use the bathroom instead of urinating on the carpet, it's an improvement if he urinates on the bathroom floor instead.

Yet you are still cleaning pee up off the floor. Cleaning up insurgents from Iraq instead of Iran is still adding bodies to the pile.

And guess what? None of this took place in a vacuum.

No shit? Vacuums don't exist by the way. Iran is still playing us to its tune. China is still playing both countries to its tune. The faster we realize we have no real allies, the better off we are. As NISPOM says, "There are no allies in intelligence."

As much the Wrap-Em-In-Bacon Brigade wants to see mushroom clouds over Qom...

I would prefer to nuke the bastards, yes. I don't want to see my friend who has served 2 tours in Iraq and goes back in September then go into Iran. I don't want to see his daughters grow up without a father. I don't want to see more US servicemen and women sacrifice more than they have. So, yes, I would prefer to nuke them.

However, reality being what it is, even offered the chance to do so I not push the button. America could not survive as a free democracy if it pushed the button first. Retaliation, yes, but not first strike. We would truly set the world against us and lose all credibility for our claims of freedom. And, as much as it would pain me, I would order our men and women back into the hell of war knowing full well some of them would not be coming back.

So, instead of a high and mighty smart-ass remark, how about you ask what I would do to answer the rhetorical question I put forward at the beginning of this?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-04-10 21:42|| 2008-04-10 21:42|| Front Page Top

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