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2011-08-09 Europe

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Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-09 08:57|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 At a certain point the Roman Empire split, the Western half to include Rome fell quickly by 455 [the date the real Vandals sacked the city]. The Eastern half would continue in some form or fraction till the 15th Century. Justinian the last Emperor to dream of reuniting the old Roman state, so exhausted the East in manpower and resources trying to recover the glory days, that it was unable to stop the first Muslim war of expansion and conquest. There comes a time to allow history to take its course for those civilizations that commit cultural suicide.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-09 10:41|| 2011-08-09 10:41|| Front Page Top

#2 There comes a time to allow history to take its course for those civilizations that commit cultural suicide.
Posted by Procopius2k

Not a great deal of pleasure in the watching however.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-08-09 11:29|| 2011-08-09 11:29|| Front Page Top

#3 Nor much pleasure in being in the middle thereof...

Posted by trailing wife 2011-08-09 12:14|| 2011-08-09 12:14|| Front Page Top

#4 Justinian also depopulated large areas of Italy in the process of reclaiming it for The Empire.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-08-09 12:35|| 2011-08-09 12:35|| Front Page Top

#5 Yup. Post-Roman Italy was actually doing okay before Justinian; the Vandals and Lombards ruled lightly and wanted to be more Roman-like. The Roman senators still controlled much of the land and wealth, and life was more or less romanized.

Justinian led a terrible campaign to reclaim Italy for the Empire, and in the process his army marched up and down the peninsula several times. When they were done Rome was a wreck, the senators were gone, and the land was ruined for a couple generations.

Posted by Steve White 2011-08-09 13:53|| 2011-08-09 13:53|| Front Page Top

#6 Single best thing we could do for Europe at this point is to leave the military wing of NATO, and invite the Europeans to plan and participate in their own defense. Let them figure out how much they need, where to put it, and who's going to do it. Let the Euros find the new balance point between defense and social spending, or let them go under.

Posted by Steve White 2011-08-09 13:54|| 2011-08-09 13:54|| Front Page Top

#7 "Let the Euros find the new balance point between defense and social spending, or let them go under."

Yes, exactly that.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2011-08-09 14:03|| 2011-08-09 14:03|| Front Page Top

#8 In all fairness to Justinian, everything he might have accomplished was pretty much undone by the plague, including his own health for the rest of his life. The Empress Theodora, however, was singularly responsible for extending the life of the empire by another 200 years.

In a situation eerily reflective of today's America, the empire was split into political factions, the blues (think blue States), who were favored by Justinian, and their allies, the more radical greens, who sought to overthrow him, and the less powerful reds (think red States) and the whites.

After a period of severe instability that almost overthrew the government, called the Nika Riots, led by the greens and the blues, Justinian was about to call it quits and flee, but Theodora thought otherwise. So she called for something of a peace conference with the blues and the greens to be held in the largest amphitheater.

The blues and the greens arrived, and decided to name their own emperor, but the queen sent a trusted eunuch and two generals. The eunuch delivered a bag of gold to the blue leaders, and reminded them that Justinian had long supported them. They took the hint, and ordered all the blues, as a group, to leave the stadium, much to the surprise of the greens, who decided that the new emperor would be a green emperor (think Al Gore.)

But the amphitheater, now containing only greens, was surrounded by the two trusted generals and their armies. Who then went in and slaughtered every one of the greens.

An act which politically stabilized their empire for 200 more years.

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-08-09 14:27|| 2011-08-09 14:27|| Front Page Top

#9 "Let the Euros find the new balance point between defense and social spending, or let them go under."

Which is something the United States has NEVER come close to finding in 235 years, even with a GPS...

Posted by Shakey Steve 2011-08-09 14:41|| 2011-08-09 14:41|| Front Page Top

#10 Single best thing we could do for Europe at this point is to leave the military wing of NATO, and invite the Europeans to plan and participate in their own defense.

I agree completely. Until I think that might be just what the Russians want. Would we care if EUrope came under the New Soviet umbrella?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-09 14:48|| 2011-08-09 14:48|| Front Page Top

#11 "Would we care if EUrope came under the New Soviet umbrella?"

The answer is 'yes'.

Posted by Shakey Steve 2011-08-09 14:55|| 2011-08-09 14:55|| Front Page Top

#12 And how much are you contributing, Mr. SS?

Other than your mouth, I mean.

Posted by Barbara 2011-08-09 15:05|| 2011-08-09 15:05|| Front Page Top

#13 A gentle reminder, Shakey, that Canada too benefits substantially from American defense spending. We south of the 48th would not mind at all if Canada decided to cancel the partnership and go its on way on defense, we really wouldn't. Try us.

Europe is destined to fail. It's unfortunate; many of us have ancestors who came from there, and there's an enormous culture, literature, art, and political theory that started on the continent. One cannot imagine the world history of the last two millennia, good and bad, without Europe. But Europe will fail for two reasons:

First, demography. There are to be fewer and fewer Europeans in the decades to come. One of the most popular names for a newborn male in Europe these days is "Mohammed", and while I don't begrudge anyone's faith, a Europe with a Muslim majority or near-majority population is going to be very different than the Europe we've known. Europe is a continent always defined by its ethnicity, and that is changing radically.

Second, will. Europe will fail because its people and particularly its leaders don't believe in the things that sustain a culture. Europe is all socialistic twaddle these days. It's no secret that the riots in London are coming out of neighborhoods that are the result of socialistic foolishness; that the police can't fight back; that the elites are telling people not to fight back; and that everyone just about is looking for a way to pick someone's else pocket for their pension plans and health benefits.

Europe is done because the people don't really believe in Europe -- the banding together of the elites into the 'European Union' doesn't count.

Posted by Steve White 2011-08-09 15:35|| 2011-08-09 15:35|| Front Page Top

#14 Whom are you defending us from? I'd like to know..

Posted by Shakey Steve 2011-08-09 15:50|| 2011-08-09 15:50|| Front Page Top

#15 Would we care if EUrope came under the New Soviet umbrella?

Beats the Califate.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-08-09 15:54|| 2011-08-09 15:54|| Front Page Top

#16 Whom are you defending us from? I'd like to know..

Well, since you asked...I'm sure you'll take care of any conflicting claims.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-09 18:00|| 2011-08-09 18:00|| Front Page Top

#17 I play pick up hockey with several members of the Canadian Forces Air Command (I still think of them as RCAF) most weekends in the winter. They're here in Upstate NY as part of EADS. Great guys, bring their share of the beer and, unlike Shakey Steve, understand what their mission here is all about. Glad they're here.

Posted by JDB 2011-08-09 18:16|| 2011-08-09 18:16|| Front Page Top

#18 Funny that the Americans and the Danes also lay claim...so does that mean you are 'protecting' us from yourselves also? Gets pretty convoluted, all this 'protection' you know...

Posted by Shakey Steve 2011-08-09 18:43|| 2011-08-09 18:43|| Front Page Top

#19 I wouldn't worry about American 'claims'. In the end, the EPA will decree its all untouchable. At least we should let someone else get it [like the Chinese who are drilling for Cuba now in oil resource areas between there and Florida].

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-09 19:53|| 2011-08-09 19:53|| Front Page Top

#20 Suppose an extended game of Axis & Allies, or a simple game of Risk, is quite below such proclaimed stature. It is, after all, at a twelve year old's level.

Escape Merica's state? Last I saw the EU had to plug in an extra fan to catch the shit with another shovel load at the ready. At least in the USA polyticks have to address people unlike the selected EU. Keep it up, and you all will have border skirmishes on and off paper.

Posted by swksvolFF 2011-08-09 23:47|| 2011-08-09 23:47|| Front Page Top

23:49 swksvolFF
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