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#1 Funny thing pointed out over at AOSHQ: how can Zero assert executive privilege over documents he says he's never seen?
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-06-20 11:07||
#2 This is worse than Contempt for Congress.
Failure to prevent weapons trafficing to murderous cartels.
Providing arms used in the murder of US Agent.
The President, instead of firing Holder as demanded by Congress, just implicated himself as a key player by trying to protect and harbor Holder.
Congress and Issa can now go after Obama directly.
Posted by Unomosing Snaiting1141 2012-06-20 11:13||
#3 Funny thing pointed out over at AOSHQ: how can Zero assert executive privilege over documents he says he's never seen? TFSM #1
That would also mean, lying to Congress.
Obama/Holder are toast. This is BIG.
Posted by Unomosing Snaiting1141 2012-06-20 11:17||
#4 Appears the Obama White House just kicked it up a notch, but how can he make such a declaration when some documents have already been released? Releasable documents... non-releasable documents? Sort of begs the question about White House non-involvement, does it not.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:19||
Posted by Beavis 2012-06-20 11:19||
#6 I suspect you are correct Unomosing Snaiting1141. But it may not stop with the Obama and Holder.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:21||
#7 On my soapbox again, but it is simply inconveivable that the US Ambassador to Mexico, his Chief of Station, and LEGAT staff knew nothing about F&F.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:25||
#8 Besoeker - are you making nominations for "Under The Bus"?
Posted by Bobby 2012-06-20 11:42||
#9 No Bobby, just saying there are strict protocols regarding the shipment of weapons by the USG across international borders. It is just beyond belief that some sort of inter-agency coordination did not take place with regard to F&F.
If no inter-agency coordination took place...then where is the US State Department and CIA outrage? Crickets.... only crickets. There is very likely much, much more to this story.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:48||
#10 Out of the frying pan into the fire. I wonder if he fully understood what he was getting himself into.
Congress needs to impeach The Man, but libs only understand power, not duty.
Posted by gorb 2012-06-20 11:51||
Posted by crosspatch 2012-06-20 11:53||
#12 No use Crosspatch. I still won't vote for him in Nov.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:56||
#13 Nobody got killed in Watergate.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 12:26||
#14 This makes Watergate look like a school boy prank.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 12:28||
#15 @#13, that is an extremely important distinction. Accessory to murder is a serious charge.
Posted by crosspatch 2012-06-20 12:30||
#16 And no statute of limitations on murder--this won't go away.
Posted by OmuluqueHapsburg5085 2012-06-20 12:39||
#17 I wonder if he fully understood what he was getting himself into.
The Junior Senator from Illinois is far too detached from reality to understand the consequences of any of his actions. This is just another of many moves on his part that makes that clear. His job, he feels, is to "take care of" his choom gang. That is all that gangsters know to do. This is another example of the current gangster government.
Posted by Rupert Snaiting1492 2012-06-20 12:55||
#18 They never learn, do they.
Repeat after me, Champ and Eric: it's not the crime, it's the cover-up.
Take your lumps. Release the documents. Fire some folks and reassign some more. Take the hit in the press.
All that is preferable to the festering wound that F & F has now become. Now you've got the media, even MSNBC, wondering what's going on. What's in those documents. Did Champ see them. Does executive privilege stretch to documents the White House supposedly never saw. And what's in those documents.
Nice going. You turned a sordid, small-scale scandal into a major scandal.
Posted by Steve White 2012-06-20 13:13||
This man may have to finish out the current term as President. (doh!)
Posted by Rupert Snaiting1492 2012-06-20 13:22||
#20 I doubt it. Less than five months left until the election, it would take longer than that, particularly since there is a long summer recess, to come up with articles of impeachment and a trial. It would be faster to simply keep digging for as much documentation as they can and get it exposed to the light of day and letting the people decide in November.
Posted by crosspatch 2012-06-20 13:33||
#21 There were pundits during Obama's first year in office who said he would likely not finish his first term. Impeachment is most unlikely. Resignation or declination of the nomination is much more plausible. Keep an eye on the Hildebeast and Slick.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 13:41||
#22 letting the people decide in November
Looking from the outside, crosspatch, seems to me people decided a long time ago. To wit, Obama's core constituency couldn't care less. And the other side has plenty without F&F.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:43||
#23 g(r)om... would you consider loaning us Netanyahu until the end of January?
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 13:45||
#24 Visitor, who will take care of Iran?
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:50||
#25 They are just running out the clock, hoping for a win in November, and hoping to take the House (dreamers). I expect pardons issued that give enough cover if they do not stay in office. The damage done by this gang has permanently diminished our trust in the DOJ, State, BATFE, DEA, IRS, FBI, and many other agencies. And it was hard to even think that some of those agencies could get lower in the esteem of the American people.
Posted by Whiskey Mike 2012-06-20 13:55||
#26 p.s. crosspatch, IMO, removing Holder is critical if you don't want to have a third world style elections.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:56||
#27 Quite difficult to "diminish" that which does not exist.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 14:02||
#28 Whatever it takes for justice to prevail. Preventing that loser from someday being nominated to the Supreme Court would be a definate plus as well.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 14:06||
#29 I read somewhere that the House requested some 80,000 documents. Does executive privilege mean that all 80,000 of those documents have been seen in the White House? Again I say, if it takes 80,000 documents to run an operation like F&F it's a wonder our government can function at all. Who can possibly read that much?
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 14:28||
#30 It is just beyond belief that some sort of inter-agency coordination did not take place with regard to F&F.
Unless, of course, we are becoming our own private Pakistain. Wheels within wheels.
I see from crosspatch's pic that I'm not the first to realize we are reliving both the Carter years AND the Nixon years simultaneously. God help us all, said Tiny Tim.
Posted by SteveS 2012-06-20 14:46||
#31 Regarding the e mail
ATF has 5000 employees including 10 offices in Arizona. There are probably several dozen stores in AZ that sell firearms.
The 'don't talk about this' emails and the 'here is what to say about this' emails alone probably total ten thousand or so by themselves, if you count each recipient as a document.
Then there are the 'notes to file' and the interdepartment and intradepartmental emails which probably also total ten thousand.
It adds up.
Posted by Lord Garth 2012-06-20 14:51||
#32 It adds up.
And Obama saw them all?
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 15:42||
#33 John Adams said, "As to the history of the revolution, my ideas may be peculiar, perhaps singular. What do we mean by the revolution? The war? That was no part of the revolution; it was only an effect and consequence of it. The revolution was in the minds of the people, and this was effected from 1760 to 1775, in the course of fifteen years, before a drop of blood was shed at Lexington."
Posted by SR-71 2012-06-20 15:48||
#34 Like a number of commenters said: Executive privilege covers communications between the present president and others. That says a huge amount. O just put the millstone around his neck. He just threw himself under the bus.
This is not breaking into some offices. This is accessory to murder of a Border Patrol agent and hundreds of Mexican citizens by weapons allowed to go to Mexican drug cartels. These are serious charges.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2012-06-20 17:07||
#35 Interesting article over at Big Government on the two types of Executive Privleges (communicative and deliberative) and how this falls under the second (and much weaker) one. Also stresses how Holder will eventually lose:
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-06-20 17:31||
#36 A comment from one of Breitbart's articles:
It was the tape recordings of Nixon's attempt to cover up the White House involvement in the Watergate burglary that forced his resignation. He claimed the tapes were protected by executive privilege. It took several months to get his claim of executive privilege before the Supreme Court. That's what Obama is counting on-months of delay to push this case past the election.
Obama has become an outlaw who will do anything to keep his grip on power. He has already shown a propensity toward rule edict and regulation. Watch his behavior if the Supreme Court finds Obamacare unconstitutional. We are sliding closer to dictatorship every day.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-06-20 17:40||
#37 "Nothing happened. And if something did happen it was Bush's fault. And if something did happen that wasn't Bush's fault, we wouldn't know anything about it. And if we did know something about it, what we know would be in these documents I won't show you. Any questions?"
Posted by Matt 2012-06-20 19:47||
#38 Obama has made a habit of bypassing Congress so can't Congress do an end run on obtaining these docs? We have cyber capabilities that can remotely access computers, NSA eavesdropping and storage for 3-5 years, and DoD surveillance from space--allowing them to stonewall until the election is over is simply unacceptable.
If nothing else, enact the secret resolution (from the Wallstreet Daily):
"If we do not provide against corruption, our government will soon be at an end." --George Mason, Virginia Delegate to the U.S. Constitutional Convention and one of America's Founding Fathers. Mason made that declaration in 1787. Or as Lawrence Lessig says in his book Republic Lost...."Sometimes an institution becomes too sick to fix itself. Not that the institution is necessarily blind to its own sickness. But that it doesn't have the capacity, or will, to do anything about it."
Understanding this, the Framers added to our Constitution an ingenious escape hatch. Although it's never been used in the history of this proud country, it's the only plausible strategy for forcing fundamental reform to our Congress.
We're calling it "The Framers' Secret Resolution." But amid all the hope, a newly liberated America was struggling to find its identity. Ironically, like its British predecessor, its early political system was rife with corruption. As Washington's powerbase was forming, greed often trumped morals. Sounds familiar, right?
In 1787, Congress convened in Philadelphia with the "sole and express" purpose to make it possible for the Constitution to be amended, as needed. It accomplished this extraordinary feat in two very distinct ways:
1) By Congressional mandate.
2) By calling for a convention.
To date, all 27 amendments have come forth via the traditional route, where Congress proposes an amendment and then the states ratify it.
But, as Lessig says, "Sometimes an institution, like an individual, needs an intervention from people, from friends,from outside."
Knowing this, the Framers forever etched their secret resolution onto the parchment...that Congress must "call a convention" to consider proposals to amend the Constitution if two-thirds of the state legislators ask it to. Period! In other words, Americans can, in effect, supersede Congress if the masses can somehow all get behind a game-changing idea, and influence their local leaders to move on it. It's a daunting task. However, even though it's never been done, the specter of a convention alone can scare Congress into taking action...
Posted by OmuluqueHapsburg5085 2012-06-20 20:25||
#39 Two Texas Lawyers representing Zapata family go after Holder/Justice Department for $25,000,000.00 today over F&F guns. Link
Posted by Angaiger Elmeresing8208 2012-06-20 20:58||
#40 Nice to see Obama show he is part of the privilaged class.
One two three four..fiiiiif.
Posted by swksvolFF 2012-06-20 22:08||
#41 FREEREPUBLIC Artic claims the Bammer may had known about F&F + implications, consequences back in 2009???
NET POSTER = opined that Bammer may wish he was John Edwards right now, or Bill vee Monica's Dress???
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-06-20 22:37||
#42 Congress can cut the purse strings at DOJ, DOS, BATFE, WH, etc. strangle these asshats. Next year? Clean house of any bureaucrats that went along with these (and other illegal/unethical) Obama Regime schemes. Time to purge
Posted by Frank G 2012-06-20 23:21||