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2014-11-13 Europe

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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-11-13 00:00|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 quite frankly I think many people are getting sick of Israel allowing new settlements to be built on land that is not theirs.

Thieving land is not going to lead to peace. I for one am sick of it.

I don't think the ultraconservative jews are any better than the islamofascists. They are just as supremacist and dogmatic.

I don't care for their imaginary god, and I would like them to simply stop building new settlements. Don't have enough land? Have 2 kids instead of 6 or 7.

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 00:45|| 2014-11-13 00:45|| Front Page Top

#2 don't get me wrong - i do hate the Islamofascists a lot. And I also hate anti-Semitism.

And I hate that Europe turns a blind eye to the anti-Semitism promoted by the Islamofascists they let in.

But I also want Israel to stop building new settlements. Just make a good clear fence on the land they have and stop trying to expand.

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 00:50|| 2014-11-13 00:50|| Front Page Top

#3 I also think the idea of a palestinian state's a good one.

It will be the usual arab disaster, but no excuses for UN intervention etc now.

If Isreal starts to annex land, then there's going to be a problem justifying any action if the arabs nick some of Isreal.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2014-11-13 05:34|| 2014-11-13 05:34|| Front Page Top

#4 Anon1, they bought the land, every damn inch they are building on. No property rights, no freedom. Although to cover myself in total hypocrisy I'd a next the West Bank and give the occupants a rather stern choice, sterilization or immigration. Both to be nicely compensated.

Posted by Shipman 2014-11-13 05:47|| 2014-11-13 05:47|| Front Page Top

#5 they certainly need separating shipman

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 08:15|| 2014-11-13 08:15|| Front Page Top

#6 It was our land in the first place, anon1.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-11-13 08:23|| 2014-11-13 08:23|| Front Page Top

#7 Palestinan state! Wonder who would have too support that one. Arabs would PLEDGE billions, give hundreds. Every year another famine, medical or some other crisis. What do the paleos contribute to society? Tunnels? If you give them an inch they will try and take a foot.

Posted by chris 2014-11-13 08:56|| 2014-11-13 08:56|| Front Page Top

#8 Right after the Russians and Poles return Prussia and Silesia (see-ethnic cleansing). Wars have consequences.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-11-13 09:15|| 2014-11-13 09:15|| Front Page Top

#9 anon1, generally I am quite fond of you, as you know, and greatly admire your analytical thinking.

But on this you are so wrong I want to shake you until your teeth rattle... as a start.

You are factually wrong on every count, and functionally -- though I assume out of ignorance rather than belief --antisemitic.

First of all, it is obscene that you equate the ultra-orthodox Jews -- who for the most part impose restrictions only on themselves within the borders of their communities -- with the Islamofascists, who have been viciously conquering as much territory as they can manage, pillaging, beheading, raping, kidnapping, enslaving, and forcibly converting all who do not manage to flee, with the goal of bringing the rest of the world under their vicious rule as quickly as can be managed. If you really mean that, I have seriously misread you. If you do not mean precisely that, you need to ask yourself why you are spouting antisemitic memes.

Second, stop being one of those rude atheists. Whether or not one believes in the God of Abraham, the fact is that there is a great deal of verified history in the Jewish Bible, as confirmed by archeology as far afield as Egypt and Iran. There are Egyptian inscriptions referring to the royal family of King David, just to start, and the Romans respected not only the lived morals of the Jews of their time but the long history of the Jews in the land encompassing from the Sinai desert to the Galilee. As g(r)omgoru pointed out, it is the Jews who are native to the land, not the Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, some of whom arrived as recently as 1945 A.D. from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt.

Third, starting in the time of the Ottoman empire, the Jews have bought not only every inch they now live on, but a good deal of it more than once, and a good deal more that they don't live on as well. Not to mention the bits that were Jewish for millennia, until the Arabs drove out the native Jewish owners over the course of the 20th century.

Fourth, according to international law Israel can do anything they please with conquered territories until a final peace treaty is signed. This is designed to encourage the losers to get on with serious negotiating. But the Arabs want it all -- not just the West Bank and Gaza, but Tel Aviv and Haifa and the new city of west Jerusalem, too, whether acquired by violence by Hamas or by pressure from the hypocritical nations of the world that Israel give up her territory inch by inch, nibbled away at the behest of the PLO wearing the figleaf of the Palestinian Authority .. and all of it completely free of the taint of Jews, just as their current territories are, though they're willing help remove the taint by killing all Jews foolhardy enough to remain. Have you truly forgotten that a decade ago Jews lived in the Gaza Strip, until PM Ariel Sharon removed them all? And then the Palestinians tore down and trampled into dust the homes and greenhouses the Jews left behind, wanting not even the gift of a successful industry worth millions if Jewish hands had worked it first.

Fifth, there is literally nothing Israel can do to gain more than a hudna, a temporary peace with the Palestinians. The religious Palestinians remember that the Muslim Ottomans once ruled there, and therefore cannot allow any of it to be ruled by unbelievers. The secular Palestinians think of the situation as the Algerians driving out their French rulers, and are willing to keep upping the ante until all the Jews leave or are killed. Unfortunately, it is the Jews who are the natives here, not the Arabs. Also, you know about the rising antisemitism around the world, including your own Australia -- there is literally nowhere for Israel's six million Jews to go, though no doubt some of the clever computer programmers and scientists could find asylum easily enough.

You hate the Islamofascists, my dear anon1, but you demand of the Jews that they bare their neck to a sword that you refuse for yourself. Give up the land Australia stole from the Aborigines, open your country to six million Jewish and another million Christian, Baha'i, Druze, etc. Israeli refugees, and then you'll have standing to criticize Israel.

Posted by trailing wife 2014-11-13 11:42|| 2014-11-13 11:42|| Front Page Top

#10 Thank you Dear.

Once again Rantburg U. is in session.

Posted by GORT 2014-11-13 12:05|| 2014-11-13 12:05|| Front Page Top

#11 When Mark Twain visited the region he described it as basically vacant. That was before the Jews moved back with the Zionist movement and masses of Arabs followed to enjoy the economy the Jews created.

Posted by rjschwarz 2014-11-13 14:27|| 2014-11-13 14:27|| Front Page Top

#12 Wow, TW was serious, no tea offer.

Posted by Shipman 2014-11-13 16:36|| 2014-11-13 16:36|| Front Page Top

#13 Ship, tw speaks softly but carries a big cluebat.

Posted by Rambler in Virginia 2014-11-13 16:53|| 2014-11-13 16:53|| Front Page Top

#14 Hat tip to the learned wife who trails no man.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-11-13 17:00|| 2014-11-13 17:00|| Front Page Top

#15 wrong after, perhaps before, "I think"

Posted by Frank G 2014-11-13 19:17|| 2014-11-13 19:17|| Front Page Top

#16 What tw said.

And thank you.

Posted by Barbara 2014-11-13 21:01|| 2014-11-13 21:01|| Front Page Top

#17 That was awesome TW. Thank you for that.

Posted by CrazyFool 2014-11-13 23:08|| 2014-11-13 23:08|| Front Page Top

#18 A most righteous rant, tw.

Posted by SteveS 2014-11-13 23:09|| 2014-11-13 23:09|| Front Page Top

#19 Thanks TW,

Australia did give land back to the Aborigines. We recognise that we did wrong taking it away. Gough Whitlam gave the first of the land back in the early 1970s and it's been handed back ever since under the Aboriginal Land Rights Act. And good thing, too. I support that, 100%.

And I totally agree that the Islamofascists are obscene in their goals as well as their tactics. And I strongly think we should be fighting their non-violent political arm that is entrenching itself in our countries.

And Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself, and is in an extremely difficult situation.

But every time Israel allows new settlements to be built in occupied territories that is just ripping the scab off a wound so it never heals.

Same goes for the Islamofascists that reject every olive branch of peace offered by Israel and I know they've offered them 99.9% of what they want and they still persist in fighting on.

And I do think unrelenting obedience to some quite silly doctrines is to blame - on both sides.

Secularism is a good thing - it lets people follow their religions or none at all in freedom. It seems to me the biggest obstacles to peace and tolerance in the world at large is too much olde tyme religion getting in the way.

The Islamofascists are worse than everyone. But some of the things I've seen from the quite fanatical ultra orthodox jews is not encouraging.

So I really think that perhaps Israel should batten the hatches, patrol the lands they have, stop provoking with new settlements.

But on the other hand they should also expel the Muslims from their land because like Shipman said: they must be separated.

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 23:23|| 2014-11-13 23:23|| Front Page Top

#20 plus there is not any anti-Semitism in Australia that I've seen unless it be from the Islamofascist colony. But nobody else partakes of that particular disease.

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 23:25|| 2014-11-13 23:25|| Front Page Top

#21 Plus i would say there is truth on both sides.

As i understand it the following was the originator of the situation:
The land sparsely populated, but it had fuedal-style settlements where Palestinians farmed the land producing olives. Ruled by the Muslims for a thousand years, the ottoman empire had it last. There were jews living there continuously as through all the arab world, but small numbers.

Jews from Europe began buying the land and settling in 1870. No matter they had it 1000 years before that is long enough to be out of anybody's direct living memory. So they can fairly be considered newcomers. Also fair enough is that they bought the land: it was theirs. But one of the first problems came from the different entitlements of land ownership.

European land ownership: you buy the land, you own the land and structures and trees on the land.

Feudal palestinian arab ownership: you buy the land from the feudal overlord but the trees still belong to the peasant farmers.

so thus the first arguments began as they were not party to the transaction and did not appreciate being dispossessed of their livelihoods.

On the jewish side, against great opposition including from the evil British who prevented those fleeing the holocaust from finding sanctuary there in WWII, the jews made the desert bloom.

And of course as soon as Israel was declared every Muslim state surrounding it attacked. And like a miracle, tiny Israel won.

So nobody can fairly deny their right to exist. And you're totally right about the Muslim end game to wipe them off the face of the earth for the religious nutbag reason that their imaginary friend told them that any land that a Muslim owns has to be Muslim land forever.

And you are right, the occupied territories are only occupied because subsequent laws were foisted on Israel.

But for any long term peace to be attained there needs to be a good separation, a good fence and Israel also needs not to expand by settlement which is aggravating the situation

Yitzhak Rabin realised this but was assassinated - not by a Muslim but by an Israeli religious nutter.

And yes many jews around the world, it's good for them to be able to call Israel a homeland - but there are also Israeli ultra orthodox having 9 kids on purpose because they want to increase the population to take land by settlement demographics.

that is just irresponsible, and I hope that Israel can rein in that element.

Much respect for all present, especially trailing wife, who has a fine sense of history

Posted by anon1 2014-11-13 23:48|| 2014-11-13 23:48|| Front Page Top

23:59 Zenobia Floger6220
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21:17 Alaska Paul
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