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2008-04-10 Fifth Column
Petraeus' 'ribbon creep'
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Posted by Steve White 2008-04-10 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [783 views ]  Top

#1 Better get ready for a positively cascading avalanche of this and similar insanity if the left wins in 2008.

And De Bord is just a tiny boil on the pimple pocked buttock of the American left, and as such wouldn't even make a pimple in General Petraeus' ass.
Posted by badanov 2008-04-10 00:16||]">[]  2008-04-10 00:16|| Front Page Top

#2 He insulted every American veteran. If I remember correctly, Hackworth hated him.
Posted by Penguin 2008-04-10 00:40||   2008-04-10 00:40|| Front Page Top

#3 Righteous rant, Brother Steve. Testify!
Posted by Seafarious 2008-04-10 00:41||   2008-04-10 00:41|| Front Page Top

#4 For most of the General's career, there weren't a lot of opportunities for an Infantry officer to gain "combat" experience. Grenada 1983 - ten days. Panama 1989 - two weeks. Gulf War I 1990-91 - length of time depends on what you count. Hard combat - maybe ten days. Somalia 1993 - again, duration depends on what you count.

But -Petraeus took a bullet through a lung as a Brigade commander, stateside - not that ass-wipe DeBord would think that meaningful.

In June of 1980, by a fluke of Social Security Number (randomly selected), I found myself - then an Infantry Lieutenant in the 82nd Airborne Division - appearing for two days before the House Armed Services Committee, Subcommittee on Military Manpower, in Washingtion. They were trying to figure out how to attract and retain soldiers in the face of the total gutting of the military by the Carter administration.

There were 12 of us - 6 officers, six enlisted - all ranks - summoned to Washington from all over the world. The first day, we just sat in two rows, as "decoration" - behind the Army Chief of Staff (GEN Edward Meyer) and the Secretary of the Army (Donald Alexander), as they testified for about four or five hours.

I will never, ever forget what I witnessed, first hand. While some of the the congressmen were respectful and thoughtful, a signifcant number of them addressed the SoA and CSA insultingly, with sneering contempt, disdain, and utter hostility.

I was just a dumb Lieutenant, but I knew that "Shy" Meyer had previously served as asst. Division Commander of the 82nd Airborne (my Division), and I just could not fathom the treatment that was dished out by the feral congressmen (and women - Patrica Schroeder was one who stood out to me).

The Secretary and Chief Of Staff never batted an eye - respectfully and professionally answered every query - and the contrast in professionalism between the congressmen, and the Pentagon representatives was like night and day.

The next day, just the twelve of us appeared - morning session for enlisted "witnesses" - afternoon session for the officers. The exact same congressmen - but this time they were all gushing honey and milk - fawning all over us, In asking each question, the speaker would precede the question with a fifty word "sound-bite" preamble, basically licking our asses - so that thy could get their comments quoted in news releases, "praising the troops" - one day after they had tried to gang-rape two of the top four individuals in our chain of command - right in front of us.

It was real eye-opener for a young officer.

The dignity of the Pentagon officials is just five orders of magnitude above the sniveling mutterings of the Legislative branch.
Posted by Lone Ranger 2008-04-10 01:28||   2008-04-10 01:28|| Front Page Top

#5 #3 Righteous rant, Brother Steve. Testify!

Amen to that Seafarious,

The whole lot of them couldn't lift the jock strap of General Petraeus.

I'm thru and thru disgusted with these sons of Caligula...and I'm ashamed they are Americans..
Posted by RD">RD  2008-04-10 01:38||   2008-04-10 01:38|| Front Page Top

#6 I googled Matthew DeBord and found a trail of mostly free alt-weekly bylines, rubbish for The Nation, and a gig as editor for Wine Spectator! He's also covered tennis.

Petraeus will be taught and discussed for fifty years; long after DeBord is completely forgotten, even by those who knew him.

Posted by JDB 2008-04-10 01:38||   2008-04-10 01:38|| Front Page Top

#7 I volunteer to take my Bronze Star and jam it up this a-hole's nose to give him a lesson. Most of my medlas were peacetime to ya dumbsh*t. We won the cold war on those.

This stupid f**k obviously doenst realize the regulations REQUIRE the wear of your awards, in proper order of precedence. You can't just play fashion fag and say "oooh these 3 look good and that one clashes".

Goddmaned idiots in the press.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-04-10 01:50||   2008-04-10 01:50|| Front Page Top

#8 Bet DeBong nods with approval for the sash-n-sprocket set.
Posted by Seafarious 2008-04-10 02:16||   2008-04-10 02:16|| Front Page Top

#9 Despite the official surrenders of both Germany + Japan, fighting still went on various locales. Top Command Officers, as well as everyone else, still had valid fears of sniper potshots, inlcuding from NAVAL GUNS/RIFLES, finding their mark(s)- "SURRENDER" DID NOT MEAN AN AUTOMATIC END TO COMBAT.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-04-10 02:48||   2008-04-10 02:48|| Front Page Top

#10 "Ulysses S. Grant accepted Robert E. Lee's sword"
Grant did not take Lee's sword, and his terms offered included the stipulation that all Confederate Officers could keep their sidearms and personal belongings. He did not want it. Not that this clown would know American history. Or care...
Posted by Greter tse Tung5885 2008-04-10 05:49||   2008-04-10 05:49|| Front Page Top

#11 A fine product of the public indoctrination school system. The man needs to relearn his history. I didn't get many ribbons during my short tour in the army, but I cherish every one of them since I received them after busting my ass in my job. They are a visual resume. Bragging rights. You can literally carry your honor on your chest (not that this mouth-twat knows anything about honor).

Oh, and Grant never took Lee's sword, as was pointed out. In fact, not only were personal side arms for the officers kept, Grant allowed everyone to take home a horse or a mule to begin planting their fields right away. And on top of that, fed the entire army BEFORE they surrendered since they were starving. That act right there kept the south from waging a guerrilla war for years. Too bad Grant and Sherman and the other officers of the Union had their work undone by shithead politicians who wanted to punish instead of incorporate.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2008-04-10 07:24||   2008-04-10 07:24|| Front Page Top

#12 I am convinced this fellow secretly hates himself.
Posted by Besoeker 2008-04-10 07:26||   2008-04-10 07:26|| Front Page Top

#13 We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

W. Shakespeare, Henry V, Act 4, Scene 3

Bill says it all.
Posted by Procopius2k 2008-04-10 08:42||   2008-04-10 08:42|| Front Page Top

#14 So he's a big Patton fan, eh?
Right. If Patton, or even MacArthur, were alive today today and running the show in Iraq, Matthew would be hiding under his bed with soiled pants.
Wonder what he'd think of Hugo if he showed up to testify with all his sashes and sprockets? He'd probably call him "resplendent".
Posted by tu3031 2008-04-10 09:22||   2008-04-10 09:22|| Front Page Top

#15 DeBord realizes that when real men like Petraeus walk into a room, what little chance Debord had to get laid just went to zero.
Posted by ed 2008-04-10 09:34||   2008-04-10 09:34|| Front Page Top

#16 "Which, according to Mr. DeBord, means that Doug McArthur couldn't possibly have had an ego ..."

LOL!!!!!!!! Thanks for that one, very good.

IIUC, some european states in the past had civil servants were uniforms, with medals for distinction, etc. And private life civilians displayed certain really high distinctions if they had them - IE French military veterans, out of uniform, still wore a Cross of the Legion of Honor on their civilian clothes.

Our society really doesnt do stuff like that - even the suit and tie, the mark of being white collar vs blue collar, has been in a long retreat against workplace casual. Civilian society, in this as in some other things, has become more distant from the military, and this certainly creates problems of understanding.
Posted by liberalhawk 2008-04-10 09:37||   2008-04-10 09:37|| Front Page Top

#17 FWIW - Many awards to civil servants (i.e., bureaucrats) are also in the form of medals. Unless the recipient is uniformed, they aren't worn and don't come with the ribbons this asshat refers to, but they are honest-to-goodness medals. That's just the way the government gives some awards.
Posted by Spot">Spot  2008-04-10 09:55||   2008-04-10 09:55|| Front Page Top

#18 Mickey Rooney attends the Oscars each year attired in a proper tuxedo with his Bronze Star and other citiations he received in WWII.

FDR personally awarded him the Bronze Star for entertaining the troops in combat zones.
Posted by Seafarious 2008-04-10 10:10||   2008-04-10 10:10|| Front Page Top

And private life civilians displayed certain really high distinctions if they had them - IE French military veterans, out of uniform, still wore a Cross of the Legion of Honor on their civilian clothes.

I have never seen this (but I don't know people who got a Legion of Honor in combat). However I know people who got it for civilian achievements and what they wear is a red thread about 2mm wide and 1cm long extending between the upper "button eye" (don't know the english term) and teh rim of their vest

As an aside every year hundreds of people get the Legion of Honor. From actors to journalist, from doctors to majors. And most of them are not even first league figures in their field. Also it is more or less automatic for people who reach a certain rank as civil servants or in the military:
no general without a Legion of Honor.

For that reason the Croix de guerre (War cros) who is awrded only for combat feats has ended being more coveted by the French military despite being officially lower ranked than Legion of Honor.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2008-04-10 10:41||   2008-04-10 10:41|| Front Page Top

#20 Gen Petraeus may deserve all his decorations but there really is a problem.

A fair number of military officials have been decorated for basically completing paper work. Similarly some non-military officials have been awarded metals basically for attending meetings of some interagency group.
Posted by mhw 2008-04-10 10:43||   2008-04-10 10:43|| Front Page Top

#21 the gap between awards given to officers and enlisted men was a travesty in Vietnam. Also, the differnces from unit to unit was amazing.
Posted by bman 2008-04-10 10:50||   2008-04-10 10:50|| Front Page Top

#22 So, basically this creep is asking for *more* wars, to allow our Officers to get *battle experience*, is that what I'm hearing?

As someone already mentioned, Gen. Petraeus came up through the ranks in an era that was generally *peaceful*. Thus, there wasn't much opportunity for him to see war action. That's pretty basic cause-meet-effect rationalization, which this yay-hoo has none of.
Posted by BA 2008-04-10 11:23||   2008-04-10 11:23|| Front Page Top

#23 DeBorg's attack on the general is a free shot. He cannot fight and will never know the result of battle, but he has a forum and he used it to attack another nam. This will and can go on unless and until he is confronted in the street. After pissing his pants he will respect his fellow men out of fear and doubt if not out of honor or position.
Posted by wxjames 2008-04-10 11:32||   2008-04-10 11:32|| Front Page Top

#24 Obviously, a graduate of the Mr. Blackwell Scool of Political Commentary.
Posted by charger 2008-04-10 11:56||   2008-04-10 11:56|| Front Page Top

#25 A fair number of military officials have been decorated for basically completing paper work

Actually its not a problem.

Those of us in the military know and can read the "ticket punchers". But when you see a combat award, or a commendation medal, you know the difference. And the difference between my joint service commendation medal and my army achievement medal is pretty large - and there are joint service achievement and army commendations in between. But my bronze star is far and above those others. So those are the ones that come first couple rows in my ribbon rack. But precedence isn't necessarily the same as importance to the soldier. A good example of that is my Saudi medal with the sabers and palm, and my kuwait liberation medal next to it. Although these are at the very bottom of my ribbon rack and below my "I graduated from boot camp" ribbon, they mean far more to me than almost any of the other awards.

Bronze star, JSCM, ACM, JSAM, AAM, GCM, NDSM (got that one for being called up), SWASM (DShield/Storm), etc. Those are most of the "earned" medals/ribbons I have. Plus the run of the mill things like the OSR for overseas service and "Rainbow Bright" ASR for bascially graduating boot camp (which is more than the punk writer has done).

Civilians may not know what those rows of colors mean, but I do - and so do my fellow soldiers and veterans. And they can read my ribbons and know where I have been (and also that I am old, since I don't have any awards post 1996).

The only thing I am proud but kinda embarrassed to wear are my jump wings. I earned them but only 8 total jumps my entire time, 5 of them in training (thus the title "5 jump chump" for people that go train just to get the wings).

Your first jump that "really counts" is the first one with your unit, your "cherry jump. Me and others made with panties on our helmets, pretty comical sight.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-04-10 12:05||   2008-04-10 12:05|| Front Page Top

#26 For senior naval officers, it's acceptable practice to wear a single row of your highest-ranked ribbons for daily wear.

Thing is (based on experience) - going to Capitol Hill requires dress uniform. Showing up for a hearing (even as a flunky) requires/required the full ribbon display. And you get to be treated like crap as a reward.

Just another of those many 'incentives' that encourage shipdrivers to stay out of Beltway assignment.
Posted by Pappy 2008-04-10 13:06||   2008-04-10 13:06|| Front Page Top

#27 Didn't know Navy Officers had that flexibility - Flag Rank required, right?

I guess it lets them reduce the clutter. I know one SoF guy that had 6 rows, and a lot of them were foreign national awards - he looked like a Peruvian Admiral in full formal dress uniform.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-04-10 15:33||   2008-04-10 15:33|| Front Page Top

#28 Pure case of salad envy.
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2008-04-10 16:34||   2008-04-10 16:34|| Front Page Top

#29 OS, The single row also goes to the enlisted as well; but as mentioned, for daily wear. Inspections and other full dress occasions call for all the lettuce.
DeBord is a santimonious shiteater.
any medals or other commendations handed out have to go through some level of sanity check, its not like the temporary tattoos you can buy from a vending machine. witness the 'Stolen Valor Act,' to punish those that wear unearned ribbons / medals.

To mhw and you comment re: paperwork: our squadron had an aircraft accident in which the enlisted crewmen in back died and the 2 aviators lived; they were ejected through the forward windscreens (night crash in a SH-60F helicopter while on final to the boat). the co-pilot a USN-R got the brunt of the blame by the HAC ( helicopter aircraft commander) and ultimately turned in his wings and resigned, but the true story was that the HAC was at the controls when they crashed, but he was an 'admiral's kid' and there was some sort of bs involved. at the end of his tour w/ the squadron, it was typical for the awarding of a Navy Achievement Medal. but 'Junior' didn't get one; the unstated reason was: you killed 2 kids and ruined a third.
this is the level of sanity checking i am referring to.
Posted by USN,Ret. 2008-04-10 16:43||   2008-04-10 16:43|| Front Page Top

#30 Ouch - forgot about enlisted being able to do that (JOs caught crap unless you were a mustang LDO and older than dirt).
Posted by Pappy 2008-04-10 17:40||   2008-04-10 17:40|| Front Page Top

#31 'S OK Pappy. no foul intended (I'm sure), nor perceived.

still wanna find the a-hole back on the uniform board that invented Corfam shoes (patent leather).
Posted by USN,Ret. 2008-04-10 17:48||   2008-04-10 17:48|| Front Page Top

#32 Corfams are for people that cannot master kiwi an cotton balls.

And for the most part I never wore Army "Class A" Greens other than for inspections. On occasion I did wear my dress blues (which basically require ALL the ribbons you've earned). Wonder why Gen Petraeus didn't wear his Blues? They are transitioning out those Class A Greens anyway.

At to the best of my recollection, I never had any situation where I could exercise any choice of ribbons or medals in the Army. Besides that, fatigues and BDUS were the rule for me and most every in the Army. Navy doesn't crawl in the mud, so I guess they do get to dress a bit snappier (to this day, I envy the chiefs and their khaki).
Posted by OldSpook 2008-04-10 20:13||   2008-04-10 20:13|| Front Page Top

#33 OS: if we didn't do the corfams we were not a team player,
and while wash khakis are great while crawling over, under and around your airplane d'jour, the CNT (Certified naval Twill,aka double knits) went south just looking at a can of grease. of course back then we just opened up a 5 gallon can of liquid freon and de-greased them, and poured the fluid overboard........had a rotorhead CO that went ballistic when this transplanted tailhooker came to work in wash khakis. we had a little talk and i promised to keep a set of CNTs in the car because i was not content to just sit behind the desk, but would 'help' the real wrench twisters. near as i remember they stayed in the car....
Posted by USN,Ret. 2008-04-10 22:12||   2008-04-10 22:12|| Front Page Top

23:55 JosephMendiola
23:50 JosephMendiola
23:23 GORT
23:20 trailing wife
23:04 twobyfour
22:59 twobyfour
22:12 USN,Ret.
22:09 Anonymoose
22:07 Frank G
22:00 Frank G
21:59 Anonymoose
21:51 Pappy
21:42 DarthVader
21:40 Pappy
21:32 JSU
21:31 Frank G
21:20 Eric Jablow
21:16 Frank G
21:12 Snaving Stalin4500
21:10 Snaving Stalin4500
20:49 Barbara Skolaut
20:45 Barbara Skolaut
20:41 Nimble Spemble
20:28 Barbara Skolaut

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