Article

2004-09-13 Russia

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dan Darling 2004-09-13 12:50:34 AM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Edit for length, please - even if it is a WaPo registration required article..

Other than that, looks like the WaPo is sharpening its knives for Putin.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-13 1:48:02 AM|| 2004-09-13 1:48:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I can't help but think that even if a peaceful solution is reached, that will only clear the field for the Islamo-fascists to take over Chechnya.

Posted by V is for Victory 2004-09-13 8:27:53 AM|| 2004-09-13 8:27:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 well, V, it certainly is a risk. There will be needed a huge effort from the international community to avoid that, I reckon..After the first war, there was an evolution towards an Islamo-facist regime, yet only because some of these warlords were really out of hand. The majority of the Chechens really doesn't want a Islamofacist republic..But it's the ones with armes who mostly end up in charge.. Basayev is a threat a in that respect..It will never be possible to (re)integrete him into the political process.. Maschadov will not be the exponent of the Wahhabist, Islamofacists though. He's moderate, just like the vast majority of Chechens.. But the 20% of extremist might pose a problem, indeed.

Posted by lyot 2004-09-13 8:52:24 AM|| 2004-09-13 8:52:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Looks like WAPO (and the MSM) is rewarding their allies the terrorists for their kidnapping, murder, and rape of children. It appears that this is blaming Putin (exactly what the terrorists want) for what happened and letting the terrorists off scot-free. It doesn't even call them 'terrorists'.

While there are problems in Chechnya and Policy probably needs to be changed - the policy is not the main, sole, reason for the bloodbath as this article seems to indicate.

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-09-13 9:23:51 AM|| 2004-09-13 9:23:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Right-on, CF. Another underlying theme is a whisper: "It's a quagmire. Pass it on."

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 9:29:51 AM|| 2004-09-13 9:29:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 if Chechnya doesn't even constitute a quagmire, then what does ?

Posted by lyot 2004-09-13 9:55:39 AM|| 2004-09-13 9:55:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 lyot - I know you don't really want an honest answer, you're just being your usual disingenuous onanistic trollish self.

Simple: Will to Win + Required Resources = win.

The Will to Win component just went up in response to Beslan, no? Before that, I would have granted that Russia had let Chechnya become a quagmire. But the balance just changed dramatically. Reassess and decide for yourself.

Maybe they will, indeed, "Do the Euro": throw up their hands and cower in the face of the Islamofascist challenge, and try to negotiate with people who behead the helpless and shoot children. Maybe not. We'll see how the change in the will of Putin and the Russian people affects the equation. Even a jackoff like you will admit that Russia could wipe them off the face of the planet in a matter of a few hours. That is, after all, merely a matter of will for Russia.

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 10:26:48 AM|| 2004-09-13 10:26:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Before you speak of the 'Will to win', you better start acknowledging the dire state of the Russian armed forces (army, FSB, Chechen police). They sell their weapons and take bribes.. briefly put, there's much more 'will to win' on the Chechen side..No matter what Putin wants, it's the armed forces who are not 'up to par'..It's the Chechens who are blowing themselves up (and it only started a couple of years ago)..Face it, the will on their side is bigger then on the Russian side.. Beslan will not change that. And even if the Russians can wipe them out in a second, that's not what they are gonna do..

Posted by lyot 2004-09-13 10:52:23 AM|| 2004-09-13 10:52:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 The armed forces are a resource issue, which can be address where the will exists. The ills of Russia are, indeed, deep and the list is long.

We'll see what Putin does. He has enormous authority. Given my druthers, I'd dump him in a heartbeat, since he's demonstrated that he can be bought, but he's there and the Russians are stuck with him... for the moment.

Nothing is static. 3-5 years on, if the willful Chechens keep up their attacks and barbarism (not that they are the only ones displaying such behavior), who knows who and what they will be facing then. You don't know what the Russians will do, within the list of things they are capable of doing, along the way. You sure as hell don't know what they will do tomorrow - Basayev may yet push them to, and over, the brink. He seems bent upon it, in fact.

So is it a quagmire? Lol!

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 11:11:03 AM|| 2004-09-13 11:11:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Question: how long will the Chechens be able to sustain their war with most foreign sources of funds (read Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc) cut off?

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-13 1:10:51 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:10:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Stalin was an asshole - but he kicked Hitler's ass.

Posted by Anonymous6417 2004-09-13 1:16:17 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:16:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 "It's the Chechens who are blowing themselves up (and it only started a couple of years ago).."

I applaud their efforts. In fact I strongly encourage and support their activities. I would be willing to contribute to their bomb making activities.

However I do so wish they would do it in an empty field someplace so that they do not hurt innocent people.

Posted by Michael 2004-09-13 1:43:10 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:43:10 PM|| Front Page Top

22:03 UFO
16:04 UFO
08:53 UFO
08:37 UFO
08:37 UFO
00:31 UFO
14:03 asim ishaq
16:46 lex
12:30 tu3031
12:27 lex
09:04 .com
08:44 .com
07:30 trailing wife
05:59 Howard UK
03:26 Nanook
02:57 .com
02:50 .com
02:50 Nanook
02:36 Nanook
02:33 .com
02:28 Nanook
02:26 .com
02:18 .com
02:17 Nanook