In retaliation for strikes by the Taliban over the weekend that killed a dozen or more coalition soldiers, 1000 Afghan troops backed by US-led coalition forces and US air support bombed a Taliban base in the Dozi mountains approximately 170 miles southwest of Kabul. Afghan officials say that dozens of Taliban have been killed as the result of Daisy Cutter bombs dropped on the mountain hideout however the Pentagon puts the death toll at 14. The airstrikes included F-16 fighters, A-10 "Wart Hogs" and Harrier ground-attack jets, Pentagon officials said.
Which one dropped the daisy cutters?
JUS reporters in Pakistan received reports from eyewitnesses in the area who said that approximately 50 ordinance "pulverized" the Taliban position and that the area has been sealed off to prevent locals from reaching the area.
If they did use daisy cutters, which is open to question (reporting is from Jihad Unspun), and they've got the area sealed tight, I'd guess they think they've got one of the bigs, probably Mullah Omar, bottled in there. Sure would be nice if they got him...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 20:12 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[9 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
*Fingers Crossed*
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 20:14 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Egh. Not a MOAB, but we can hope they've got one handy.
#5
F-16's, A-10's, Harriers, ....daisy cutters?
What's missing are the C-130's that would actually drop the daisy cutters, unless we're sending them by truck. There are always C-130's at Bagram, and I'm sure there are daisy cutters ready for use in the area. But, I'm with Watcher. If they really used daisy cutters again, we'd be hearing about it from a real source.
#6
We used a couple of daisy-cutters (25,000 pound HE gravity bombs - so-called 'dumb' stuff) in Vietnam and Laos. I've done some of the bomb damage assessments from those strikes. If they actually used one of those, there may be hundreds killed, and you'd never know, totally blown to pieces and spread as a thin, red jelly over the surrounding rocks.
We had a "before" and "after" shot of a drop on the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos. The "before" shot showed a small stream surrounded by 200+ feet of canopy - large and small trees, vines, and bamboo. The "after" shot showed a large circle completely devoid of plants, and a 10-foot deep hole in the streambed. Most of the trees - some up to six feet in diameter - were turned into toothpicks.
It's possible that if they did use it in Afghanistan, it may not have killed anyone. However, you should be able to quickly find all the gunnies in the area from the smell of the sticky brown stuff in their trousers.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/27/2003 22:33 Comments ||
Top||
#7
So if we got Omar, how the heck are we going to ID the red stain on the wall as him?
Taliban spiritual leader Mullah Mohammad Omar may be hiding with 800 Taliban fighters in mountains pounded by US and Afghan forces in a fresh offensive this week, an Afghan military commander was reported saying Wednesday. General Garni, military commander of the restive southeast border province Zabul, made the claim in an interview with the private Afghan Islamic Press. "Mullah Omar may be hiding in the mountains of Dai Chopan in Zabul, along with around 800 Taliban," AIP quoted Garni as saying. Thatâs it, huh? Well, if there are 800 Taliban, thereâs sure to be a high ranking command group with them. Hek at least, maybe Omar. Be nice to bag the lot.
Since Monday allied US and Afghan forces, backed by US military craft, have been raiding bases in Zabulâs Daichopan district, some 300 kilometres (190 miles) southwest of Kabul where they believe hundreds of resurgent Taliban have been hiding. Local officials said at least 15 suspected Taliban militants were killed in air and ground assaults on Monday. The mountains lie some 180 kilometers from the border with Pakistan, where many Taliban are believed to be regrouping to stage an increasingly bloody guerrilla campaign against aid workers, soldiers and officials in Afghanistan. If they are that far from the border, I donât think we are going to make the same mistake we did at Tora Bora and let them get away.
Garni said the fighters hiding with Omar included Afghans, Pakistanis and Arabs. The usual suspects.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 3:58:44 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I hope that they cut off the line of retreat so they can't PAK-track, and then take them all out. I still find it hard to believe that Biker Omar is in Afghanistan, where things get hot, rather than in Pakistan or NWFP where it is not so hot for his sorry behind.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 16:14 Comments ||
Top||
#2
I'll believe it when they have his dead head in a bag....the bigs never put themselves at risk when there's fodder to be found
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 16:20 Comments ||
Top||
American and Afghan forces killed about a dozen insurgents Wednesday and recaptured a mountain pass in southeastern Afghanistan - the scene of heavy fighting and U.S. bombardments this week, a local official said. Suspected Taliban guerrillas were believed to still be hiding in the rugged area in Zabul province, where U.S. and Afghan soldiers reoccupied the Moray Pass, said Khalil Hotak, chief of the provincial intelligence service. Some of the fighters escaped toward Uruzgan province to the west, Hotak said. Kind of hard to hold the high ground when we own the sky.
U.S. military said that one coalition special operation soldier was shot in the shoulder during a firefight in Uruzgan on Tuesday night. Coalition aircraft — including AV-8 Harriers, A-10 Thunderbolts and Apache helicopters — fired on insurgents on Tuesday afternoon in clashes in Uruzgan, Col. Rodney Davis, spokesman for the U.S. military in Afghanistan, told a news briefing in Kabul. He said coalition forces were continuing operations in Uruzgan as well as neighboring Zabul and Kandahar. "We will continue to do what we have been doing, that is take advantage of whatever intelligence we have and kill anti-coalition forces where we find them," he said. Good
Davis had no further details on casualties, and it was not possible to immediately confirm Hotakâs report that 12 or more suspected Taliban were killed Wednesday and whether the bodies had been collected.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 9:24:50 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Collect them? sprinle baco-bits on em and let the flies have em
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 9:43 Comments ||
Top||
#2
D'oh! How about sprinkle? damn, I need some coffee
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 10:16 Comments ||
Top||
#4
spackle with Spam works as long as there's pork in it lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 11:15 Comments ||
Top||
#5
When the Mujahadeem fought the Soviets in Afganistan they had Uncle Sam by their side. Now the little sheetheads want to take us on and they have, what, Pakistan, mafia, China maybe. RPGs can be a real pisser I'm sure, but they don't really match-up. Take hold where ever they are and shake the liv'n hell out of'm. Hot war.
#8
we've been in afghan for close to 2 years now. Still have only about 10,000 troops, a couple of dozen US combat deaths. After 3 years in Nam we had 500,000 troops and 40,000 combat deaths.
steverosa doesnt seem to have gotten the line - its IRAQ thats the new viet nam, not afghanistan. My suspicion is he's a plant by the hawkish side, to make the doves look stupid.
#9
Air strikes? What we should do is lay lands mine in the passes the terrorists take. Seeing thier comrades mutilated and crying for help turned alot of Paks back when we first went in to Afghanistan.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/27/2003 14:30 Comments ||
Top||
#10
Land mines are dirty, terror weapons when used in the fashion you advocate. In Vietnam, many of the VC mines were repurposed American weapons, especially mines.
American doctrine for mining is for them to be in well-organized, mapped deployment protecting strategic points.
Some prepostrously high percentage of American casualties in Vietnam were landmine-inflicted. There are better ways to wage war.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
08/27/2003 14:38 Comments ||
Top||
#12
odd, no mention of AC130's. The harriers and a-10's have limited dwell time, and Apaches have issues at high altitudes, IIUC. How high did they say these mountains are?
The US air force quietly deactivated its 363rd Air Expeditionary Wing at Prince Sultan Air Base Tuesday, marking the end of an era of US air patrols to safeguard the oil-rich kingdom against Iraq. Air Force Major General Robert Elder, the deputy commander of US air forces in the region, led a ceremony disbanding the unit at the remote desert base. Goodbye, Saudi. Thanks for nothing.
The base in Al-Kharj, about 80 kilometers (50 miles) south of Riyadh, once was the home of the largest US air operations in the region with a state-of-the-art command center, thousands of troops, and squadrons of fighter jets, AWACS radar surveillance and tanker planes. But on April 30, US Defense Secretary announced that the United States would withdraw its combat forces from the kingdom, effectively ending a 13-year military presence because Iraq no longer posed a threat. The combined air operations center was moved out the same day to neighboring Qatar, followed by about 100 aircraft stationed there at the end of the war in Iraq. Most of those left behind were "support folks, security folks, civil engineers who were shutting down operations," said Arasin. "Theyâll either be returned to their home stations or forward deployed somewhere else in theater," he said. Pentagon officials say several hundred US military personnel remain in Saudi Arabia, performing tasks such as training and tending to military sales. Around 50 trucks were lining up outside the base Tuesday, ready to move remaining US military equipment to Qatar, while reception premises for coalition force were shut and placards bearing the sign "welcome to the coalition forces" were thrown away. In related news, Saudi officials were puzzled over the sudden appearance of a large "X" painted on the ground in the middle of Prince Sultan Air Base. Developing.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 10:38:51 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[6 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Too bad we couldn't spirit some of those American women and children to Kuwait, too.
#2
The delivery of 6 C-130's full of wild boar from Arkansas was not noted in this story for some reason. A successful use of the "trap and release" program by the Arkansas Dept. of Wildlife.
#4
In related news, Saudi officials were puzzled over the sudden appearance of a large "X" painted on the ground in the middle of Prince Sultan Air Base. Developing.
Send in a bunch of engineers to say "Gee, these runways aren't safe to land or move aircraft. They'll have to come up." Then send in the heavy equipment...
#8
In spite of the problems we have had with the Saudis, one area that officialdom there never really questioned was the role of our AF elements based in Al-Kharj. Sometimes we have to take what hosts are willing to give and move on in spite of the friction involved. Patience is a virtue.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/27/2003 16:49 Comments ||
Top||
#9
In spite of the problems we have had with the Saudis, one area that officialdom there never really questioned was the role of our AF elements based in Al-Kharj. Sometimes we have to take what hosts are willing to give and move on in spite of the friction involved. Patience is a virtue.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/27/2003 16:49 Comments ||
Top||
#10
In spite of the problems we have had with the Saudis, one area that officialdom there never really questioned was the role of our AF elements based in Al-Kharj. Sometimes we have to take what hosts are willing to give and move on in spite of the friction involved. Patience is a virtue.
The clincher is that the Prince Sultan airbase is still a viable facility, and usable should the House of Saud fall or the wrong elements in the Saud rabble win control. Cam Ranh Bay redux.
#11
Pappy...not to worry. When we lost Vietnam, we had to sit back and watch the USSR move in because we were in a nuclear stand-off with them, and it wasn't worth fighting WWIII over the issue. If the Big Oil Tick Tribe goes down, we'll blow Prince Sultan and the rest of their military facilities so fast it'll make their little heads spin.
#12
Just an "X"? The local Saudi supply of paint must have been lacking. I'd have expected a large painting of concentric circles with a nice 'bullseye' in the middle. Target practice, anyone?
Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/27/2003 21:06 Comments ||
Top||
#13
...When I was at PSAB, one of our daily jobs was to keep the sand off the Defense Survey markers at every mag or revetment. These had the GPS coordinates of the site on them, engraved on a brass disk that was then set into concrete. When I asked why every mag had one, I was told - and take this for what it's worth - that the coordinates were for whatever we sent in to level the place if it was about to be overrun.
And every building at PSAB had one.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/28/2003 0:10 Comments ||
Top||
Task Force Will Target Funding
By Douglas Farah
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 26, 2003 EFL
Saudi Arabia and the United States have for the first time agreed to set up a joint task force that will station U.S. law enforcement officials in the desert kingdom to target individuals suspected of funneling millions of dollars to al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, officials from both countries said yesterday. PR weâve all heard before...
Senior officials of the FBI and the Internal Revenue Service are flying to Riyadh today to iron out the operational details of the group, which will focus on mining information from bank accounts, computer records and other financial data to track and shut down the money flow, according to senior officials from both governments. Ah, the IRS - so they are getting serious as these guys rival the Saoodis in arrogance. Other similarities will be left for another day...
Although several joint task forces have been tried before, none allowed U.S. officials to live in Saudi Arabia or have access to Saudi documents and investigations. U.S. and Saudi officials said the impetus for strengthening cooperation between the two nations came from al Qaedaâs attacks in Saudi Arabia in May, when suicide car bombings of residential compounds in Riyadh killed 34 people, including nine assailants. The turnover rate (snicker) of the task force will be something to watch. I could give them a few pointers about where to eat, useful escapist activities, hotel with the best Russian prostitutes, etc, but the IRS has never been half so nice to me, so... naw, phuck âem. Heh.
U.S. officials said the creation of the task force is an important step whose effectiveness will depend on how seriously the Saudi government takes the issue. And how many of them speak Arabic so theyâll know when theyâre being excluded from the good shit...
"I donât think there is a more immediate way to test the joint resolve of our countries than to have a joint investigative unit, with the linguistic and computer resources of both our countries, that is capable of focusing on specific targets, rather than talking in generalities," said David Aufhauser, the Treasury Departmentâs counsel general, who helped negotiate the agreement. "We now have a testable proposition of peopleâs resolve." Loooong overdue. Dennis Lormel, head of the FBI division investigating terrorist financing, agreed that "it is one thing for the Saudis to say they will cooperate and another to commit the resources to making this work. It was agreed to at a very senior level, so we hope this specifically focused group will work." More... All that bad publicity (14 Saudi 9/11 bombers, paymaster activities for terrorists, dirty charities, the missing pages, asshat madrassah funding - the whole nine yards) may finally yield something akin to cooperation. What I wonder is what happens when the smoking gun is located firmly in the grip of a prominent Royalâs hand? Now that will be the real test...
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 4:09:57 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[7 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Dont knock the IRS. Everyone fears them, and they can get people the law cant get to. Just ask Al Capone.
#3
Yeah, right - that's they plastered it all over the Washington Post. This is as believable as those Saudi PSAs they run during Limbaugh's show.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
08/27/2003 7:59 Comments ||
Top||
#4
I like to think that about half of this crap is true. The Saudis basically have a civil war on their hands, with lots of people on both sides at once. (Lots of Yankee Union Army guys with a house full of slaves)
#5
And switching sides regularly... the old shifting sands bit... Which reminds me very little of the old Bedu and the Rabbi joke. The rabbi shows up at the oasis and asks the Bedu, "How may mullahs does it take to...
#6
Not a civil war -- a war for succession. It's a fight within the royal family.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 10:29 Comments ||
Top||
#7
i think both anon and crawford are right - theres both a struggle between Crown prince abdullah against some of his half brothers, for control of the state, and a struggle of the state against the jihadis, one in which elements of the state support the jihadis as it suits them, and in which such support as one of the tools in the succession struggle.
Maybe a better example would be the French revolution, with different factions struggling among the revolutionaries (jacobins vs Girondins,etc) while the revolution as a whole fought the Vendeens, etc.
#8
The Royals vs the Jihadis vs each other, when mapped out, remind me of a rootbound plant when you remove the pot.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 13:49 Comments ||
Top||
#9
This is excellent! Iraq becomes a magnet for terrorists so they go there rather than threaten the Home Front. NOW Saudi Arabia becomes a magnet for IRS agents, so they there rather than audit us.
This is an unexpected plus from the War on Terror.
#10
This is good news. But .com has the crucial caveat in his conclusion. Saudis round the wagons when a khawaji (Western ferner) shows a bit of independence, like say demoting one who doesn't show up for work on a regular basis. The khawaji gets a phone call from a higher up (Western or Saudi) who asks him to give the troublemaker another "chance". IRS and FBI cannot play footsie with their counterparts on the other side of the table. Read the agreement, understand it, and stick to it. Literally. Otherwise, if the Saudis offer cars and other perks not mentioned in the agreement, don't accept them boys. If you do, they will come to you for favors not covered in agreement. You don't play ball, they will stonewall you and you won't know what hit you. Hope our boys know this and are willing to say no. This will rub against the hosts so much as there is an aversion in their culture to refusing a request. I've seen it again and again.
Just like the "Godfather" Remember the scene, folks? Movie producer: Tell Corleone I'll do anything for him except give Johnny Fontaine this role. Duval: Mr. Corleone doesn't ask for other favors if his original one has been turned down.
The stakes are a bit higher here, though.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/27/2003 17:05 Comments ||
Top||
Followers of Solomon Islands warlord Harold Keke have attacked two remote villages, damaging a church and some houses. Keke and his followers have been accused of killing dozens of people, rape, torture and of razing several villages during five years of fighting between militias from Guadalcanal and Malaita islands. He is awaiting trial on attempted murder charges.
What about trying him for his successful murders?
In the first report of violence since peacekeepers landed in the Solomons a month ago, a priest, Josiah Konga, said the villages had been attacked on the Weathercoast, south of the capital, Honiara. Nick Warner, an Australian diplomat heading the international force, says police are investigating the reports.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 19:34 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Tomorrow the NYT and the Beeb are going to list Guadalcanal as another failed 'Merkin military intervention.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/27/2003 19:44 Comments ||
Top||
The man who helped mix the deadly one-tonne Bali nightclub bomb Sawad, alias Sardjiyo, yesterday said he wanted to thank the Australian people who had supported his cause during recent Australian anti-Gulf War protests. And fellow bomb-mixer Abdul Ghoni urged Australians against forming friendly alliances with America. "I want to thank the Australian people who supported our cause when they demonstrated against the policies of George Bush. Say thank you to all of them," Sawad said. Weâll pass it on.
Terrorist cohort Ghoni had his own warning for Australians: "Be careful about making friends with America because actually America wants to control the world . . . all of us will be colonised so we have to be careful about making friends with the USA . . . if they are shaken continuously, definitely, they will be smashed." Sez a man awaiting his date with a muzzle blast.
Yeah, but when we control the world we're gonna make all the Aussies prefects and praetors and quaestors and nabobs and other prestigious offices. If the Islamists get to rule the world, they get turbans and they can't get nekkid when they go to the beach.
Think hard now...
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 11:11:04 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#4
Once and for all we don't want to control the whole world. We have enough problems of our own. We even have internal tribal conflict. Saw some film just a couple of weeks ago of Rhode Island State Police taking the Bufford Pusser sticks to native americans that were selling tax-free cigarettes. Why would we want to have control over tribal societies armed with AK-47's and RPG's.
And we certainly don't want any part of the EU. The entire EU operation is a pyramid scam to help fund early retirement for Frenchmen at the age of 50. It looks like unless the EU kicks into full swing soon, the French plan will be to continue the current plan of denying old people air conditioning. Guess the actuaries at their version of the Social Security Administration thought the no A/C deal would keep the ratios of working to retired in line for a couple more years.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 12:59 Comments ||
Top||
#5
I don't want the world. Just your half.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 14:06 Comments ||
Top||
#6
I hope someone tells those protesters they were thanked by murderers for supporting them. Not for punishment, but for the satisfaction of seeing them realize they're idiots.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/27/2003 14:42 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Charles - you give them too much credit, I believe. If they had 2 neurons to rub together, they would see they're tool phools. Apparently not. Your generosity is noted, however!
Personally, when troopers are dying and shitheads are carrying signs that advocate shooting officers, I lose any and all sympathy and hope the day comes when an accurate form of IQ test is administered - and those below the mark are fed Soma or "plugged in" to while away their lives without getting in the way of the rest of us.
The last of the Australian troops acting as peacekeepers in Bougainville have arrived back in Australia aboard HMAS Tobruk. Defence and civilian personnel have been based in the Papua New Guinean region since 1998. The last contingent docked in Townsville today. The Chief of Staff of the peace monitoring group, Lieutenant Colonel Brian Cox says it has been an emotional time for the soldiers and the Bougainville people. "The Bougainville people were wonderful, there were a lot of friendships which had been struck up and it was very sad to leave them," he said. "There will be a lot of people there looking with great hope to see how the island now heads towards autonomous government so they can head back there in due course and renew those friendships."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 08:51 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I saw the headline "Last Troops return from Bougainville" and for a second I thought I was in a 60 year time warp, whew!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 13:27 Comments ||
Top||
Franceâs government is considering whether to scrap a national holiday and use workersâ taxes from that day to finance better care for the elderly - the main victims of a heat wave estimated to have killed thousands. The idea - radical in a country where leisure time is sacrosanct - provoked an immediate clash of opinions. Oh, goody, a french clash! Iâll make popcorn.
Franceâs center-right government, assailed by criticism that it reacted too slowly to this monthâs deadly heat wave, is scrambling for solutions to improve care for the elderly and patch up flaws in a health system that struggled with a deluge of heat-stricken victims. Funny, I thought that the European health care system was the envy of the world?
Under the scheme, taxes gathered from an extra work day each year would finance improved care for the elderly. Kind of like how the cigarette tax was supposed to only be used to take care those people who got sick smoking.
But choosing which holiday is not an easy task. Transport Secretary Dominique Bussereau said he opposed abolishing May 8, the end of World War II in Europe, or Armistice Day on Nov. 11, when fighting stopped in World War I, or Christmas. "Definitely not May 8, because it left quite a few memories; not December 25 because I want Christmas presents," he said. Secretary of State for Handicapped People Marie-Therese Boisseau, suggested that a religious holiday in May should go, but that could raise opposition from churches. Scrapping a national holiday would likely go against the grain of many in France. And the idea of eliminating any day off touches a nerve. Labor laws passed by the previous Socialist government restricted the working week for many to 35 hours. Which is why France is sooo productive.
Alain Bocquet, head of the Communist group at the French parliament was up in arms. "Thereâs no question of touching holidays!" he said. "Thereâs no question of erasing May 8 and the memory of victory over Nazi barbarity and fascism!" "Itâs the last memory of victory we have."
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 12:47:43 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Why not just outsource care of the elderly to the madrassah's?
#3
Today on Moaning Edition (tm) there was a report about how all Frogs get five weeks' vacation, and that the government has been paying up to about $1,000 per person who's too poor to afford travelling.
Paid vacations, from the government. What a country, huh?
#10
Ummm...France lost the Franco-Prussian War, Charles. I don't think Phrwance has actually won a major military action since Napoleon retreated from Russia.
#11
Doesn't it also strike anyone as interesting that France is so strapped for cash that they have to do this at all?
Obviously, the French have a very weak work ethic, but it's also obvious now how the lack of productivity and business development is destroying their economy.
Consider this too: when a company is failing they ask people to work fewer hours because they can't afford to pay them. When a country is failing they ask to people to work MORE hours so they can get more taxes...
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
08/28/2003 3:25 Comments ||
Top||
While Indian authorities blamed Islamic militants for car bombings in Bombay that killed 52 people, astrologers are convinced the culprit was Mars, which is dangerously close to Earth. Astrologers believe the current positions of the moon, Mars, Saturn and Rahu -- an imaginary malefic planet in the horoscope -- bode ill for the near future, with the Indian government due to make wrong decisions and the public responding violently. Now thereâs an easy call.
Astrologer R.L. Kanthan told The Times of India that the spell of misfortune will not ease until September 20 with the movement of Mars, the planet that "portends violence, wars, bloodshed and combat". Satish Sharma, another astrologer, saw Thursday as a day of arson and rioting, as the Earth, Mars and the sun would be all in one line. He said another example of the impending chaos was the political turmoil in Indiaâs most populous state Uttar Pradesh, whose leader, Mayawati, quit Tuesday. Sharma noted that the symbol of Mayawatiâs party was the elephant -- associated with Rahu. "Rahu is traditionally associated with fire and sudden explosions," added fellow astrologer Mahendra Mishra. You do seem to have a lot of both.
He was more pessimistic than his colleagues, saying the current danger would not be over until Mars enters Pisces on December 6 -- coincidentally the anniversary of the 1992 razing of a mosque in Ayodhya by Hindu fanatics which set off Indiaâs deadliest riots since independence. Soon to be repeated.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 9:16:55 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Rahu is traditionally associated with fire and sudden explosions..."
Behold, Rahu!
But, of course when Mars diddles Pisces, Rahu's influence will wane. It doesn't die, but only fades away...
Wow. I alway figured it was something like this - y'know, celestial forces making evil shit happen. If I'd known about it when I got pinched as a kid for that A&B, I'll bet my lawyer coulda used this supernatural shit to great advantage.
"Now don't go blamin' that on us!"
Pakistan has urged Indian leaders to save the infant peace process between the two countries and avoid seeking political mileage out of twin bomb attacks in Mumbai by blaming Pakistani-linked groups. "This is not the time for finger-pointing, nor should Indian leaders try to take political mileage out of this gruesome tragedy," Foreign Ministry spokesman Masood Khan told the BBC. "There is a thaw; and I think we should maintain the momentum that has been generated and therefore I think leaders in India should avoid issuing negative statements because these are unhelpful."
The thaw is why the blasts took place — they had nothing to do with the Ayodhya temple. If there's a thaw in Indo-Pak relations, there's a chance Pakland will actually crack down on Hafiz Saeed and his stable of killers. Can't let that happen...
No group has claimed responsibility for the bombs that tore through lunch-time crowds in India's financial capital Monday, killing 52 people and injuring 150. But India's Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishna Advani has linked it to the Laskhar-e-Taiba group of Muslim militants. He demanded Islamabad hand over 19 "wanted terrorists," and accused Pakistan of waging a terror campaign in India. Pakistan denied the 19 men were on its soil while its spokesman accused Advani of a "knee-jerk reaction" that ran against four months of conciliatory moves by the prime ministers of both countries.
One of them is Dawood, who demonstrably is on Pak soil. Another's Azhar, who's also on Pak soil, leading Jaish-e-Mohammad. Without looking it up, I'd guess the rest are in Pakland, too, except for the ones that're on business trips to the UAE. If you're going to lie, at least lie about something that's not common knowledge...
"Pakistan categorically rejects such allegations," Mr Khan said in a formal statement. "Knee-jerk reactions and blaming Pakistan for all wrongs in India is a familiar refrain that only tends to vitiate the atmosphere. It serves no purpose to point accusing fingers at Pakistan, and even worse to try to make domestic political capital from such a gruesome tragedy."
Except that Paks are behind it, and behind them is probably the ISI...
Pakistan denied harbouring anyone on India's wanted list, presented last year at the height of the military standoff between the nuclear rivals.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't us."
"Pakistan has already made it clear that the suspects are not on its soil ... India has so far not provided any evidence about the presence of Indian suspects in Pakistan," Mr Khan said. Lashkar-e-Taiba, founded in Pakistan but banned by Islamabad in January 2002, is blamed by India for most of the attacks on its troops in Kashmir, and for a deadly attack on its parliament in December 2001. Mr Advani said the radical Muslim Students Islamic Movement of India had been working with Lashkar and could be behind the Mumbai attacks. "The progress made by India in the past 50 years is hurting Pakistan and because of this they have waged this war of terrorism against us," Mr Advani said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 09:01 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Wudn't us. Who you gonna believe, ME or your own eyes?....."
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 10:31 Comments ||
Top||
Wed August 27, 2003 06:47 AM ET
By Terry Friel
BOMBAY, India (Reuters) - At least 29 people, many of them women, died in a stampede in western India Wednesday where more than a million Hindu pilgrims were attending a religious festival, police said. Jealous of the headlines generated by Paki morons, the Hindus asserted themselves and proved that they, too, are serious morons.
Many more were seriously injured at the festival in Nasik, about 125 miles northeast of Bombay, where Hindus had gathered to cleanse their sins by taking a dip in the holy Godavari River. Most things are considered holy - by someone or other. This river, though a cesspool, is a Holy River. Leaving behind only a film only a few parasites thick, it cleanses the dipper of sin.
Ooooh! Mom! Take me there! I always feel so good after my dipper's been cleansed!
Local television stations put the death toll as high as 39 and police said more than 125 had been injured. The numbers game was in full swing...
Cheeze. The jihadis don't even have to bomb them, the Naxalites don't even have to shoot them. They just trample each other if left alone...
More than a million pilgrims had converged on Nasik for one of the holiest days of the massive Kumbh Mela, or Great Pitcher festival, which is held in the town every 12 years. More numbers and more Holy Stuff. Iâm sure thereâs much more available about the Great Pitcher, but I saw Koufax and Ryan in person, so Iâll pass.
From the Great Pitcher Brochure (Bombay, 1948): "Every twelve years the Great Pitcher comes and leaves baseball gloves for all the good little boys and girls of the world. The ones that've been bad, he spikes."
"Among the dead, most of them are women. Officials are trying to retrieve the bodies from the water," police official J.D. Tambe told Reuters. In the first few hours, the competition to retrieve womenâs bodies is fierce. It wanes as the day wears on...
He said the crowds had started to increase at noon and the stampede happened when people started to push each other rushing to take a dip in the river. That last minute mentality will get you every time.
"Mom! What time does the stampede start?"
It was the worst stampede at such a festival since 1986, when 50 people died in the northern Indian city of Haridwar on the Ganges River. Event organizers have had to settle for a 2nd-Place finish, this time, but hope springs eternal and planning is already underway...
Police commissioner P.T. Lahor told Indiaâs ZEE television that the stampede began after a sadhu, or holy man, threw some silver coins in the air as an offering and many people bent down to pick them up. Ah. A Holy Man. Shoulda guessed...
But other officials were quoted as saying the stampede had started after some barricades collapsed. Naw, it was the collapse of the Holy Barricades...
Television showed pictures of pilgrims continuing to bathe, some of them not even aware of the stampede, while further along the river, some people scrambled to pull out a woman in a pink sari, who lay face down in the swirling water. Up-river is good...
The town of Nasik, with hundreds of temples and bathing ghats lining the river, is revered by Hindus as the place where the Hindu god-king Ram and his wife Sita were sent to exile. And the ghats were only outnumbered by the gnats. Ram & Sita whiled away their days, endless days - as they are God / Goddess, so theyâre still there. Whiling.
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 8:50:54 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#2
Hindu's have a special veneration for cattle, and now the writer says the Hindu's stampede. I don't know if this is a clever turn of phrase of blasphemy.
Good thing he's not talking about the religions of peace or there would certainly be a fatawa written up by tomorrow.
#3
I heard a while ago, can't remember where, that according to standard journalistic patois you only ever seem to find groups of non-whites who "stampede". Presumably this is "herd" behaviour. Could Reuters be exhibiting a (presumably subconscious) shade of racism?
That aside, is Rantburg currently enduring a stampede of Steves?
Islamâs most revered authority of Al-Azhar issued a fatwa banning Arab countries from dealing with the Iraqi Governing Council, saying the U.S.-backed body is âillegitimateâ.
As opposed to Sammy, who was the very model of an Islamic traditionalist. Just ask all the... ummm... dead people.
âThe council lacks religious and secular legitimacy, as it had been imposed on the Iraqis under the power of occupation and does not conform to Islamâs established principle of shura (counseling),â read the fatwa, a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net. The fatwa, dated August 19, called on Arab or Islamic countries not to give support to the interim body â whose 25 members were selected by the U.S. occupation forces in July 2003.
Like, fight the power, baby!
It pressed the need for setting an legitimate Islamic government at the helm of the country to be chosen by the Iraqis.
"Yes! We must have a blood bath and establish a legitimate Islamic government, with turbans and automatic weapons!"
âIraq is an Islamic country whose government should be legitimate and set up in accordance with the principle of Shura,â read the religious decree.
"And they will be Islamic whether they want to be Islamic or not!"
On August 11, Jordanâs Islamic Labor Front (ILF), the political wing of Muslim Brotherhood, issued a similar edict calling on Muslims not to join the council.
Hokay. As long as we know who the enemy is...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 19:42 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
One of Fred's best words of wisdom issued was:
They are not wired to Code.
Iraq in the Middle East is like Guadalcanal in the Pacific in WWII. It is a focal point for the forces of both sides. Whoever is the victor in this one will determine the outcome of the WOT. Big stakes, kiddies. Big stakes.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 20:37 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Converting the Arabian Desert into a sea of glass is beginning to look more and more like the only solution to the ever-increasing militancy of Islam. Someone should tell them that... As Jaques Chirac quipped a few weeks ago, 'they missed a very good chance to shut up'. Not that I'm fond of Chitrack, but the words do have a certain ring to them... Perhaps Jaques should be given a catcher's mitt and invited to ground zero.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/27/2003 23:36 Comments ||
Top||
In the Vietnam War, when I first felt the pride of placing a green beret on my head, we in Special Forces had a dual mission: We were fighting an unconventional war in Vietnam and simultaneously training to be guerrillas. Our primary unit mission was to carry out a resistance movement behind enemy lines. We trained in sabotage, ambush and guerrilla warfare — tactics of the weak — for we were not strong enough to engage the enemy in positional warfare. These tactics are roughly similar to those employed by what Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld calls âdead endersâ who are fighting our troops in Iraq today. These guys are former Baathist regime holdouts, committed to Saddam Hussein, and joined by foreign jihadists infiltrated from such garden spots as Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Palestine. The tactics used by these dead enders — hit and run, assassination, ambush, sabotage, intimidation of the population — are clearly indicative of a group struggling simply to stay alive.
Paradoxically, the more horrific the targets for attack, the weaker the terrorists. The truck bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad is a classic example. Unable to pull off something of that magnitude against an American or British military outfit, the terrorists pick a soft, innocent target upon which to vent their murderous nature. After all, in a country awash in munitions, putting together a truck bomb is no great shakes. Killing for the sheer horrific effect makes them feel successful. Only a sociopath gloats over murdering innocents. So they blow up children, women and bystanders in their random acts. But each attack underlines the fact that they are becoming progressively weaker.
The wonder to those of us who trained to be guerrillas is not that there is so much activity right now in Iraq but so little. If the situation was reversed and our special ops guys were advising the resistance, the entire country would be aflame. A well-trained, organized force supported by a significant percentage of the Iraqi population would have scores of bombings daily along with dozens of assassinations. What this tells us is that
1) the terrorists are strictly on their own. Most of the Iraqi population does not support the terrorists yet fears a return of the Baathists. That is why icing Uday and Qusay was so important and why double-tapping Saddam will usher in a new era to Iraq.
And, 2) these terrorists are typical of the Middle East variety: poorly trained, uneducated hate machines bent on martyrdom. Fortunately, they have come to the right place to accomplish that goal.
Criticism is surfacing that President Bush has turned Iraq into a battleground for terrorists. If that is truly the case then, well, good: Better to fight them in Iraq where they are isolated, vulnerable and the rules of engagement permit our professionals to engage and eliminate them, than to have to fight them here. If Iraq is the catalyst that is bringing these vermin out of their holes in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Palestine, then, hooray, we have achieved yet another tangential benefit by fighting the war.
Some say that some of these fighters have emerged simply because the opportunity to fight Americans is available to them. In other words, that if left alone they would not have posed a threat. It is tough to know with hypotheticals, but the case can be made that some of these thugs would have been prime recruits for Al Qaeda, Hamas or any of the other alphabet soup of fundamentalist Islamic terror groups. Better to eliminate them where we can rather than risk confronting them elsewhere. We are engaged in the endgame of a war, the dirty days of snuffing out the last of the opposition. Just like firefighters extinguishing a blaze, we know that eliminating the last smoldering coal is sometimes tougher than fighting roaring flames. But like iron tempered in the fire, the new Iraq will emerge over time stronger, freer and more resilient than ever.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
08/27/2003 3:03:51 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
An informative article reviewing "nation building" in various countries since the end of WWII is found in the RAND Review, Summer 2003. They took the various examples, such as Japan, Germany, Somalia, Haiti, Kosovo, etc. and examined funds per capita, per capita troop strength, and duration of occupation and summarized the results.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 15:19 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Thanks Yosemite, very informative.
Posted by: Tony ||
08/27/2003 15:26 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Chief Wiggles on his blog had an interesting comment: some Iraqis have been out of work so long and are so poor that they'll do anything for a buck, including fire an RPG or lay a mine. Some of the unheralded WMD's are those semi trailers full of $100 bills Saddam had stashed here and there, I don't think the US has found all of that cash by any means, not to mention the petrodollars coming over the Saudi border along with the jihadis. Maybe the US could offer rewards for Iraqis to turn in unwanted foreign guests.
Two Iraqi policemen and two looters were killed Wednesday in an exchange of fire in the Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves Square, in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad, according to a police officer. Like they say, you canât make this stuff up.
"The looters were attempting to rob a shop and a car when the police arrived. An exchange took place killing the two policemen, one of them an officer, as well as the two looters," Ahmed Hassan said. Two passersby were also injured in the incident. Sorry to hear about the police killed in the line of duty.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 1:04:35 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Happened right in front of several news crews, causing no end of confusion when they realized that no Americans were involved.
#2
Well that explains it. There wouldn't have been any looting if we had only sent more troops.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 14:16 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Iraqi's killing Iraqi's? What ever happened to being 'united' against the Infedels? ( Damn proud to be an infedel too. )
Posted by: Charles ||
08/27/2003 14:49 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Shouldn't that be Ali Baba and the 40 Square Steves?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/27/2003 17:14 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Losing 2 cops willing to do their jobs in that society is terrible. I hope there is something that can be done for their families - as is the case in civilized societies where the same happens. This won't play well among those who might consider filling their shoes unless they are lionized by the witnesses. Sad outcome.
Oxfam Evacuates Iraq Due to Safety Fears Aid Group Oxfam Withdraws From Iraq Because of Deteriorating Security Never actually intending to do any good works in Iraq anyway as blatant tools of the multilateralists...
Severely edited for length and editorializing content unrelated to the article title.
The Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq Aug. 27 â
International relief agency Oxfam said Wednesday that it had pulled its foreign staff out of Iraq because the security level in the country had deteriorated to the point where the group could no longer operate. We had become prisoners of our own tastes and worldly pleasures. We found that the Arabs didnât appreciate us, so weâre going to leave. Weâll find someplace where our expense accounts are appreciated weâre loved. Like Paris.
"The risk level was becoming unacceptable for us, making it impossible for our programs to operate," Simon Springett, Oxfamâs program manager for Iraq told The Associated Press from Amman, Jordan. Once the UN got hit and the Red Cross bailed, we knew we had the political coverage we needed. We will pontificate endlessly on BBC, instead of actually trying to provide aid to anyone. We didnât sign up for that, you know, but please send your contributions to...
Whores Without Borders, London, UK.
Oxfam began withdrawing its 15 international staff members on Monday and completed the move within 48 hours, Springett said. The London-based aid group had been working on water and sanitation projects with UNICEF in Iraq. 2 months to move in. One RPG hit on a water main. 2 days to haul ass.
Last weeks bombing of the U.N.âs Baghdad headquarters, which killed 23 and injured more than 100, was only one of the factors contributing to Oxfamâs decision, Springett said. But of course, we circled the SUVâs weeks ago and not one single entity has offered us room service or complimentary hors dâoeuvres at our Happy Hours. What sort of welcome or hospitality is that I ask you?
"We felt international organizations were becoming increasingly targeted," he said. And we are desperate to be seen as an important Internaltional NGO, so we are acting now.
"I think thereâs been a blurring of humanitarian and military operations in Iraq," Springett said. "Itâs setting a very dangerous precedent." Yes. You shoot your guns and try to get rid of the bad guys. We take peopleâs money, moan and groan, and occasionally deliver some stuff we bought on the cheap. Letâs keep the lines clearly drawn.
He said he had spoken to several other aid groups that were also reviewing their security in Iraq. Weâve explained that there is power and safety in numbers. If we all pull out together, we can all cover our asses - we only need to get our stories straight, first. See you on BBC!
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 11:10:16 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Don't let the tent flap hit ya on the way out.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/27/2003 12:49 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Last weeks bombing of the U.N.âs Baghdad headquarters, which killed 23 and injured more than 100, was only one of the factors contributing to Oxfamâs decision, Springett said.
The other was that their chef threatened to quit because all the explosions were making his souffles flat.
#3
Apparently, being a being a big-mouthed, holier-than-thou-humanitarian means avoiding any risks. These guys remind me of the human "shields" who skedaddled as soon as the bullets started to fly. Frauds and cowards, all.
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
08/27/2003 16:54 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Aye McLeod! How can we operate (our expresso machine) with all the militarists activity going on. This has to be the Americans fault! If only they had let Saddam rule this country and continue to kill Arabs! Note: I LOVE THE WHORES WITHOUT BORDERS COMMENT (DEAD ON)!
DEBKA, so remember to take your salt pills. They have been pretty good lately, in regard to Iraq. EFL:
In its last issue, Number 122, DEBKA-Net-Weekly reported a surge of electronic messages calling on every al Qaeda adherent in the world to mobilize for the battle in Iraq. âVictory over the United States will be far quicker than many think,â say the messages. Never before, according to DEBKA-Net-Weeklyâs counter-terrorism sources, has al Qaeda staged a general mobilization. It is no propaganda exercise. The response has been enthusiastic and its impact noticeable. Al Qaeda combatants have been racing towards Iraq in large numbers along four main routes. The most surprising and most recent is the path from western Saudi Arabia through Iran, about which more hereunder.
A "general mobilization" would seem to indicate the big blow-off is coming. I think it's way too early for this. Is Qaeda making a strategic mistake? Or will the Dems manage to cause us to cave?
The Pakistani-Iranian route: Claims by senior Iranian leaders of having thwarted Al Qaeda attacks inside Iran are but a smokescreen for the mass influx of Osama bin Ladenâs men into the Islamic Republic from the east: The group entering from the Pakistani border region of Baluchistan forms up at the Iranian cities of Zabol and Zahedan; the group from the Afghan town of Herat foregathers near the north Iranian city of Mashhad. Iranâs all-powerful Revolutionary Guards have their intelligence units conduct âsecurity checksâ at both assembly points to establish the terroristsâ real identities and origins. They are watched by men loyal to al Qaeda operations expert Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, who is thought to have set up his base in Tehran. Once they reach northern Iraqi Kurdistan, they join the Ansar al-Islam extremists heading south to Baghdad and the Sunni Triangle towns of Ramadi, Tikrit, Balad and Fallujah.
I hope they're keeping a tally of the number of Paks kill in Iraq, and any literature they've got with them...
Ansar is held responsible for the Jordanian embassy bomb attack in Baghdad last month. This Iraqi al Qaeda affiliate, once no more than 600 to 800 fighters, has swelled and set up two new units: Jund al-Allah, or âSoldiers of Allahâ, and al-Usad, or âThe Lionsâ, indicating a Syrian connection. (Bashar Assadâs name means lion.) Its members are deployed along the northwestern Iraqi-Syrian border, attaching themselves to the al Qaeda arrivals from Syria. The two groups have already executed joint strikes in the northern Iraqi oil city of Mosul. In one, they attempted to assassinate the local chief of police, but only seriously wounding him.
The Syrian route: At least 1,000 al Qaeda men have traveled along this busiest of all the corridors into Iraq, DEBKA-Net-Weeklyâs counter-terrorism sources report. Damascus International airport is logistical hub and main distribution point for Al Qaeda operatives flying in from Central Asia, Chechnya, the Balkans — mainly Kosovo and Bosnia — Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states and even Iran. Many Al Qaeda fighters turned back by Iran for security reasons go round through Damascus, some hosted at the teeming medressas, or religious schools, other at Palestinian terrorist training camps operating in Damascus. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command receive a large part of their operational funding from Tehran and moreover collect a fee per head for every Al Qaeda operative they train. On their way into Iraq, Osama bin Ladenâs men transit Syrian-Iraqi frontier lands dominated by nomadic Saudi-Iraqi-Syrian Sunni tribesmen. For almost a decade, DEBKA-Net-Weeklyâs intelligence and military sources reveal, Saddam sent monthly stipends to tribal, clan, business and clerical leaders ruling an area roamed by two million of these tribesmen. Once a year, Saddam resettled several thousand demobilized Iraqi officers and their families in the region with orders to assimilate and set up familial relations with the local tribes. Since the money dried up from Baghdad, Syrian-administered Iranian funds have been disbursed to those tribal leaders. As a result Saddam loyalists are still in control of the tribal regions which US intelligence has found impenetrable. A rare intelligence source knowledgeable about the region told DEBKA-Net-Weekly : âIt is true that guerrilla attacks against the Americans are launched from the Sunni Triangle. However the logistics and the consignment of fighting strength to the Triangle are directed from the tribal territories.â In the last week, the flow of Syrian and Al Qaeda fighters across the frontier into Iraq has doubled.
The Saudi route via Iran: This is the newest channel, first set up in mid-July - but also one of the busiest, believed to have accommodated 1,500- 2,500 Saudi al Qaeda combatants transiting Iran at the rate of almost a thousand a week. Some are thought to be on the run from the Saudi hue and cry conducted against these fundamentalist terrorists since the May 12 Riyadh bombings. Another group appears to consist of Afghan-Pakistan combat veterans obeying the call to arms and eager for the chance of revenge for their rout in Afghanistan. They are also looking forward to an advance base from which to strike down the Saudi throne.
That part of it's doing wonders for the Soddies relationship with the U.S...
The opening of this route means that for the second time in two years Iran is granting Saudi al Qaeda combatants free passage from one anti-American battle arena to another. Like Syrian president Bashar Assad, who claims to know nothing of the al Qaeda fighters passing through Damascus, Tehran too says it is powerless to halt their through-passage into Iraq as tourists on valid Saudi passports. They all head to the western Ilan region, where local smugglers help them cross over to the Iraqi towns of al-Kut in the south or Baquba in the center.
The Saudi route via Syria: The same Syrian-Saudi Sunni Muslim tribes who crisscross the Iraqi-Syrian frontier also trek along a north-south route between Syria and Saudi Arabia via Jordan. En route, they collect Saudi, Yemeni, Sudanese and other al Qaeda fighters all heading towards the Iraqi battlefront. This is turning from flypaper into a full-blown meeting engagement. You may have noticed that DoD has not revealed any bodycounts on how many of these "fighters" have been killed or captured and their nationalities. They seem to vanish into that same black hole as the WMD information and captured Deck of Cards people.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 10:07:52 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan the Saudi's convinced many of the hard-core Islamists to jihad. I wonder if any of that is going on now regarding Syria and Saudi Arabia. It's easier to prop up your unpopular dictatorship if the really wacked guys leave. They end up looking like good Islamists while strengthening their own position.
Of course with Iran the reasons are certainly darker.
#2
I found an e-mail from in-country and blogged it here Can't authenticate but so many e-mails are saying the same thing. Here is the key paragraphs:
TO ALL: Most interesting. This is a response to a message that said rules of engagement (ROE) were causing Army deaths and did not apply to the Marines.
No it's not true. The ROE are dictated by CJTF-7, not individual commanders. They are the same for Army and Marines, not to mention the Navy and Coast Guard. We're required to be armed at all times.
The two magazine rule is that you must have at least two magazines on your person at all times, this helps when you're engaging the enemy. Most people carry at least three pistol mags and seven rifle mags respectively. Both Army and Marine units openly display their weapons.
They both shoot when threatened also. Several attacks have been thwarted by Army and Marine personnel shooting first. We're also much better shots than the enemy. They tend to spray and pray, while we tend to just shoot them.
The Army has more attacks because their AOR encompasses Baghdad and the surrounding areas where the bulk of the attacks have taken place. I've noticed the press does a poor job in reporting our response to these ambushes. To put it plainly, we kick butt! The usual 'real' report reads: "Five IZ (Iraqis) fired AK-47s and RPGs at patrol (or convoy), soldiers (or marines) returned fire resulting in 3 KIA, and 1 WIA, 1 escaped. RPGs missed, AK fire ineffective, no US casualties."
We do take some casualties, and that is not a good thing, but we are very effective at counter-firing at the ambushes. Aggressiveness has proven very effective.
#3
I read someplace that cockroach corpses emit a stink that other cockroaches use as a hint to avoid the area in question. By suppressing the enemy dead list, but publishing ours, the turbans are convinced it's a turkey shoot. And so they all flock there, not realizing that THEY are the turkeys.
#4
The way this is progressing there are going to be a lot of women in the Middle East without prospects for a husband and a lot of guys in China without prospects for a wife. Sounds like there ought to be an arbitrage opportunity here somewhere.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/27/2003 12:54 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Are you sayung that Al Qaeda is sending a lot of ?manpower? into Iraq? Sounds like we can end the WOT a lot sooner. A quick primer on Arab math. If they say 1000 they mean 10 (including two children). With us killing them in both Iraq and Afghan they will run out of faithful.
#6
The way this is progressing there are going to be a lot of women in the Middle East without prospects for a husband and a lot of guys in China without prospects for a wife. Sounds like there ought to be an arbitrage opportunity here somewhere.
Given the prevailing attitude toward wimminfolk amongst the true believers, I suspect this is more of a plus than a minus.
August 26, 2003, 9:00 a.m. The future is in Iraq. EFL
That blood is still being shed in Iraq is stated every day with calculated surprise. Voiced by the media, the Dems and our faux-allies in the U.N., the surprise is a criticism of our termination of Saddamâs regime, implying falsely that we promised instant success. What these critics willfully overlook is that while we fight the remnants of Saddamâs regime, we are also at war â quite literally â with Iraqâs terrorist neighbors. Iraq is the stage upon which the future of the Middle East is being fought out. Fighting and exposing innuendo and half-truths is, indeed, worthy of sarcasm... The honey pot / flypaper game is afoot...
The truth is more than Gen. John Abizaid said last week when he said that Iraq is the center of the global war on terrorism. Though he and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that terrorists are coming into Iraq from Syria, they both stopped short of stating the undiplomatic but terribly clear fact that the governments of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and others have decided to make a stand against freedom in Iraq. In addition, the Sudan, Afghani Taliban, and Palestinian terrorists have all joined the fight. The president almost confirmed this last Friday when he said that there was a "foreign element" moving into Iraq. Sorry, Mr. President. They arenât moving into Iraq. They have been there almost since our campaign began, and more are still coming. So we control the killing ground and, if we get smart, we can even control access to it. "Hey you! Hold on there, buddy - take a number and wait your turn!" Military pros know that, properly employed, this can be a non-stop ambush... by us. So let the pros turn it around on the shitheads...
On April 10, Oliver North reported from the frontlines that all of the so-called "Saddam Fedayeen" being caught or killed by the Marines, not one of them was Iraqi. All were Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, Egyptians, Afghanis, and Sudanese. Hezbollah from Lebanon and Syria were there by the hundreds, and more were coming in by the day. Ansar-al-Islam, the Iraqi terrorists known to be linked to al Qaeda (and among whom are Moroccans, Iraqis, Jordanians, and others) were also there, and were being reinforced continuously. Three days later, and weeks before the president declared the major military action over, a Marine was killed at a checkpoint near Baghdad by a terrorist attacker. The attacker, who was also killed in the incident, was found to be carrying a Syrian identification card. As it was then, so it is now. We firmly believe in Equal Opportunity - even to die, if theyâre so inclined.
It is time to remind ourselves that the Iraq campaign is not a war unto itself. It is a chapter â certainly the most important so far â in the war on terrorism. Iraq holds great promise for its people and the whole Middle East. The promise of freedom for Iraqis is dependent on two things. First, Iraqâs final escape from the brutality of Saddamâs regime will only be achieved by Saddamâs capture or provable death. Second, it is also dependent upon the defeat of Iraqâs terrorist neighbors. Looking past the end of oneâs nose is good... Perhaps the Press will consider it. Naw, didnât think so.
None of the despotisms that are among Iraqâs neighbors â Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria â can continue if freedom blossoms in Iraq. So those governments are actively involved in funding, supplying, and reinforcing the terrorists and remnants of Saddamâs regime fighting us in Iraq. Iraq cannot be free, and its people finally liberated, unless and until we end the interference of those governments. In the end, itâs Us vs Them. Sorry, but they decided this before they even showed up for the game. So - turn this into an opportunity, instead of eye-rolling and screaming quagmire.
The mere thought of further American action in the Middle East gives the Deaniebopper Democrats a case of the vapors. They sing the same song as the EUnuchs and the U.N., who argue that for us to even consider taking further action proves our arrogance and colonial ambitions. They accuse us of wanting to remake the map of the Middle East to suit ourselves. There are three answers to that. The first is: baloney. We are not now, and have never been, a colonial power. Never â from WWI France to 2003 Iraq â have we tried to keep or exploit for our own purposes any nation we have freed from oppression. The second answer is that we are not about remaking maps. The Brits, Russians, Italians, and French have more than once remade the map of the Middle East for precisely those purposes, and created the environment in which we now have to fight. Third, and most important, is that we have no choice but to end the threat of terrorism from these nations. More...
This is some good analysis which points out the futility of considering Iraq to be a diversion from the WoT - itâs the primary stage upon which much of the action will take place. Centre Court at the Wimbledon Terror Tournament... Babbinâs closer:
"We are half done in Iraq. We will never be done in Iraq until we finish the job in Teheran, Damascus, and Riyadh."
Read the whole thing.
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 4:36:08 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
This is more opinion than news, which is the focus of Rantburg (My son had to track what was happening in the world in 10 categories for a month. Rantburg made taking care of several of those categories a piece o' cake.)
However, it DOES state succinctly the "terrorist honeypot" theory of Iraq that many Rantburgers hold.
God bless our men in uniform over there. My only regret is that Bill Clinton acted to give us fewer of them to appreciate, and that George W. Bush is not hiring more of them for us to appreciate.
#2
It may primarily be an opinion piece, but there's some interesting news in it. Like, for example, the Oliver North report that the Saddam Fedayeen were all non-Iraqi.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 9:00 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Ptah - I forgot to put, in vewy vewy small type, "(Commentary!)" after the title - sorry folks. That's 2 posting errors today - I'll desist.
#4
Read a discussion that we need to reactivate the two divisions that we deactivated after the Cold War but that it will take 10 years to do so. Is there a quicker way? Could you split a division like the 10th Mountain in two and then fill it out? Could you permanently activate a Reserve Unit and then replace those who wanted to stay Reserve on a one-for-one basis over time? I know very little about army units.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 13:28 Comments ||
Top||
US President George W Bush has said there will be no retreat from Iraq or from the war against terror. Mr Bush was speaking to US military veterans as the number of American deaths since the end of major combat operations on 1 May surpassed the number killed during the war. Mr Bush told the gathering in St Louis, Missouri, that it was a choice between "civilisation and liberation chaos". Opposition politicians in the US have criticised his speech with one Democrat dismissing it as "empty rhetoric".
A US soldier was killed and two others wounded on Tuesday in an attack on a convoy in the town of Hamariya - about 25 kilometres north-west of Baghdad. Figures released by the Pentagon showed that the number of deaths since 1 May had risen to 139, of whom 62 were killed by hostile fire. Up until 1 May, 138 US troops had died in Iraq. May your souls rest in peace, damn those who have sent you there
The BBCâs Justin Webb in Washington says President Bushâs speech has failed to quell the growing debate in the US about his administrationâs Iraq policy. Do I wonder why?
Sensing public concern about Iraq, the Democrats seized upon the speech and attacked it with unusual vigour, our correspondent notes. Damned Democrats, if you are not with us you are against us, you Saddam sidekicks!
Democratic presidential hopeful Bob Graham called the speech "the same old fluff, the same old empty rhetoric, the same old sugar coating of a very bad situation". Dick Gephardt, another potential candidate who supported the war, said it was incomprehensible that more was not being done to get other nations to share the burden of bringing about peace. Such criticism is a sign that the situation in Iraq is to become an issue if the president seeks re-election in just over a yearâs time, says our correspondent. Mr Bush cited the examples of post-war Germany and Japan, arguing that while their reconstruction had taken years, not months, the effort had been worth it. Aha, ok I start to understand why they call Bush and Blair together, dumb and dumber. Any moron can see a world of difference between Germany/Japan with Iraq. First Germany/Japan where superpowers unlike the still backward tribal divided Iraq, secondly they already had the technological knowhow to setup an economic/social full working system. May I ask whether you regard the Germany/Japan reconstruction equal to the reconstruction of for example Afghanistan?
Mr Bush said that out of the 55 Iraqâs "most wanted", some 42 had been captured or killed. He added that almost two-thirds of al-Qaeda militants had been captured or killed but their network remained a threat to the US.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/27/2003 4:00:03 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Murat - The primary difference between Iraq and the post-WWII reconstructions has far more to do with the fact that Iraq wasn't leveled. Real suffering, such as that felt in the aftermath of WWII - not the petty frustrations the Iraqis incessantly bitch about when one of your beloved BBC or IndyMedia weenies finally ventures out of his hotel, was the motivator there.
We agree, it seems, that the intelligent and educated Germans and Japanese "got it" - and made the hard decisions needed to remake their home countries and underpin their new societies with strong principles of civilized behavior. Even though you think yourself clever and urbane, you're not: you make my case for me regards the Arab Iraqis quite well. Thanx. Your attempt at sarcasm imploded.
We went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban and their ability to provide state support to Al Qaeda. You love the Afghans? Fine. Turkey can make a name for itself, other than being just the remnants of the Ottoman Empire, by doing something about it. Name all of the magnificent efforts of Turkey to help others over, say, the last 50-100 years. I won't hold my breath because the list is zero, zip, zilch.
I know it must stick in your jaundiced and third-world craw that the numbers of dead Iraqis and quagmire claims of the morons don't support your hopes. You only have the BBC and the IndyMedia fuckwads to tell you what you so desperately want to hear. The disappointment you must feel regards hsitory is only going to get worse. Life can be a bitch - for asshats and the terminally lame. Buy a dog - he'll love you even after you kick him. For awhile, anyway.
Iâll name you one, Cyprus. Even though some Greeks complain as they do for the habit, Cyprus is free of terror and massacres since Turkey took care of it in 1974. Have you heard any massacre/instability/terror story since? Can you provide also one effort in which America succeeded to bring peace? I won't hold my breath either.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/27/2003 6:00 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Can you provide also one effort in which America succeeded to bring peace?
Panama. You said one so that's all I'm gonna give ya.
#4
Murat - LOL. You're a treasure. So, um, you named 2 for me, but let's see not be tacky about it. There's Japan and EUROPE, though the western half sorta sucks when it comes to appreciating it, and Korea, and the Phillipines, and a buttload of South Pacific Islands, China was on her knees and Russia would've lost ANOTHER 20 million without our aid... and there's that little Cold War thing... our efforts finally caused the Soviet Union to collapse and ended its World Domination program, and endless monetary aid to damned-near everyone, and the lion's share of support for programs of the UN... will that do for starters?
Lessee, Cyprus, cyprus, cyprus, cyprus... Oh, yeah, it's that little teeny island, right?
You're pathetic. Do the dog thing, it's your best bet for being loved and relevant in the world.
#7
I'm here. But it's obvious enough to me that people who believe that the ethnic cleansing of the entire island so that 18% of the population lives in the 40% of the territory,
ISN'T its own brand of terror, can't be discussed with.
Yeah, yeah, Greeks complain as they do for the habit. Well in this one matter, Greek complaints are heard and understood by the entire world. How many nations have recognized your conquered Northern Cyprus as a sovereign state, Murat? Is that Turkey, and um, Pakistan perhaps? Leading champions of human rights, both of them. And Pakistan only because it wants to do to Kashmir what Turkey did to Cyprus.
If Turkey had cared so much about the people of Cyprus then we'd have seen a bit fewer settlements from the mainland and efforts for demographical alteration in favour of Mainland Turk (Turk Cypriot aren't trustworthy enough, see, having lived so much time alongside Greek Cyrpiors). And we'd have seen a few less threats of accession every once in a while.
And oh, yes, where murders and terror stories are concerned http://www.agamemnon.dabsol.co.uk/Isaac.htm
http://www.agamemnon.dabsol.co.uk/Solomou.htm
Oh, no, no massacres and terror stories. But the Turk Cypriots now have a government which uses to employ cold-blooded assassins in the position of ministers, and uses state money to bring in the Grey Wolf fascist murderers in order to kill other children.
For the crime of you know. Being in their island. Climbing up flag masts. Stuff like that.
This interview btw makes clear the attitude of all parties involved, from the highest level down.
http://www.hr-action.org/chr/Aktuel103196.html
The "investigation" seems to have simply involved a person asking the suspected murderer of whether he did it or not. No other inquiry was required, even with photographic evidence that showed the guy was the one that pulled the trigger.
But, hey, why am I making the making the killing of a dog sound so important, right?
#8
Spare me the Greek âAl-Sahafâ style information Aris, just tell me whether or not Turks and Greeks live in security now for the last 30 years on Cyprus. Can Greek Cypriots walk freely on the Turkish side of Cyprus or not, be a man only the truth please.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/27/2003 8:55 Comments ||
Top||
#9
well said Aris. Murat, typical, you are missing the trees for the forest
#10
Can you provide also one effort in which America succeeded to bring peace?
There has not been a war between North American nations since the mid-1800s.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 9:00 Comments ||
Top||
#11
"Can Greek Cypriots walk freely on the Turkish side of Cyprus or not, be a man only the truth please."
For 30 years they *couldn't* walk freely. Turkish Cypriots could walk freely on the Greek part of Cyprus, but the opposite was forbidden.
It was only a couple months back, and after the pressure of Cyprus' admission into the EU, that the Denktash regime waived this restriction in order to seemingly appear civilised.
This doesn't nullify the Turkish conquest of Northern Cyprus or the huge expulsions of Greek Cypriots and the lands and properties stolen from them. And it doesn't nullify the murders, of course. Speak of security to Tasos Isaac and Solomos Solomou.
And btw, I don't think that the constant EU court decisions that'd condemn Turkey to pay for each violation of movement rights, had *anything* to do with the Turkish forces suddenly allowing such movement, do they now?
Hmm... perhaps you *should* forbid Greek Cypriots from entering Northern Cyprus. And at the same time make them wealthy, with money from Turkish taxpayers!
"The Turkish-Cypriot doctor stated to Politis that from September 8 1992 until April 14 1998, he had filed 147 applications to the occupation authorities to allow him to visit the free areas (58 for political reasons, 47 for cultural reasons, 25 for medical reasons and 17 for social reasons.) From the 147 applications, 122 were rejected by the Denktash regime and 22 were approved....... The European Court of Human Rights pointed out that the rights of the applicant for freedom of assembly were infringed upon in violation of article 11 of the Convention. "
----
http://www.hr-action.org/action/loizidou.html
The legal battle for Titina Loizidou began in 1989, when Turkish military forces, which currently occupy 38% of Cypriot land, disallowed Ms. Loizidou, a Greek Cypriot citizen, from entering land which was legally hers. The battle ended with a final decision of the Court ordering Turkey to submit specified sums to the injured party. With this unique and important legal recognition of individual human rights in Cyprus established, the road is now open for any similar cases, either in the instance of occupied Cyprus or in those of similar illegal witholding of land by its rightful owners.
#12
Well in that case why is the GREEK CYPRIOT JUSTICE MINISTER THEODORU so furious at the Greeks who are crossing over to the Turkish part: "THESE PEOPLE ARE DAMAGING THE NATIONAL CAUSE. THEY SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE"
The Greek Cypriot Minister of Justice and Public Order, Doros Theodoru, criticising strongly those Greek Cypriots crossing over to the TRNC as the result of free crossings, alleged that "the Greek Cypriots staying in the TRNC "are damaging the national cause and that they should be left alone."
Does this mean the Greek Cypriot Justice minister is a moron dear Aris?
A short Cyprus history
Whereas any form of crossing the border (either pedestrians or cars) was allowed for Greek Cypriots to the TRNC, Turkish Cypriots were not allowed to cross to the south by cars.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/27/2003 11:03 Comments ||
Top||
#13
TROLL FIGHT! TROLL FIGHT!
*Grabs bag of popcorn and sits back to watch the show*
#15
Damn, Ptah! Your statement produced protein smoothie spray on my desk and screen! LOL!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 12:07 Comments ||
Top||
#16
Robert, hate to be a spoil-sport, but we invaded Mexico in 1916, after Villa sacked a town in New Mexico. Also, I think Panama counts as part of North America. As well as little things like the Football War of 1969 between Honduras and El Salvador.
Nonetheless, Murat's claim that the invasion of Cyprus somehow counts as humanitarian is very self-serving. Please don't pretend that irredentism is altruistic.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
08/27/2003 12:26 Comments ||
Top||
#17
Yeah, like I'm going to waste my breath arguing with a terrorism-condoning Muslim (half of them still think the earth is flat). F*ck you Murat.
#18
Cyprus is free of terror and massacres since Turkey took care of it in 1974.
Yup, and Mussolini made the trains run on time, Stalin took care of the Ukraine while developing Siberia, and there was that little Armenian problem the Turks took care of early last century...
#19
"Does this mean the Greek Cypriot Justice minister is a moron dear Aris?"
Actually it means he's a chauvinist, which is pretty much identical to a moron, yes. But you'll note that his actions are limited to criticism, and unlike the Attila forces of Turkey he can't send big goons with guns stopping people from seeing their old homes, as happened for 30 years to the Greek Cypriots by the Turkish forces.
You see, that's the one truth that you can't hide. Saying that Denktas "opened the borders" after 30 years, only admits that he was the one keeping them closed all this time. Not the Greek Cypriots, but Denktas.
"Whereas any form of crossing the border (either pedestrians or cars) was allowed for Greek Cypriots to the TRNC, Turkish Cypriots were not allowed to cross to the south by cars."
Only because of the technicality that we don't recognize the legality of the Attila-issued car licences. "Instead, they have organized busses to provide free ride to those visitors from north"
So, we're offering free rides, you don't even have to waste gasoline to visit Southern Cyprus, and you're still dissatisfied because Turk Cypriots can't bring along their cars? When for *30 WHOLE YEARS* Greek Cypriots had no freedom of movement at all? When Turkish Cypriots themselves had to apply with their reasons to leave Northern Cyprus?
Even hypocricy has its limits, Murat.
And, Ptah, if you want to call me a troll, you've gotta back your words.
#20
Robert, hate to be a spoil-sport, but we invaded Mexico in 1916, after Villa sacked a town in New Mexico. Also, I think Panama counts as part of North America. As well as little things like the Football War of 1969 between Honduras and El Salvador.
You're right. I'd forgotten about Pancho Villa, and hadn't included anything south of Mexico as part of North America.
Still -- a much better record than 90% of the globe.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 14:18 Comments ||
Top||
#21
And, Bulldog, I've conceded that the Greek Cypriot Justice Minister is a moron. Will he concede that the Turkish Cypriot Agriculture Minister was a murderer?
I can also concede that human rights violation occured against the Turkish Cypriot community in the 1960s; people driven from their homes. Will he concede that the ethnic cleansing that took place during and after the Turkish invasion was several levels of awfulness higher?
Hmm... On another matter, hundreds of thousands of Muslims, most of them of Turkish descent and language, still live freely in (the Greek) Eastern Thrace. Once upon a time similar numbers of Greeks lived in (Turkish) Western Thrace and Istanbul. What has happened to them, Murat? How come the numbers of Greeks in Istanbul have diminished to a few hundreds of individuals alone?
Another case of ethnic cleansing, perhaps?
If, according to you, Turkey was right to invade Cyprus to stop human rights violations against the Turkish population of Cyprus, wouldn't you also have to admit that Greece would have the right to invade Turkey to stop human rights abuses against the Greeks of Istanbul?
#22
In short, Murat, in a game of wits and knowledge, don't enter the game so provocatively unless you can play it well. And unless you're sure you're defending the right side.
#25
Dear Aris, you talk about the Greeks who where once in Turkey, but what about the Turks who where in Greece did you ever gave a thought? My grandfather was from Selanik (known as Thessaloniki to you), only a few including himself of the family managed to flee Greece alive. But I have no grudge against the Greeks, nasty things happened during the war on both sides, no question about that. You talk about Thrace and Greek humanity am I right, please tell me also about the Macedonians who used to live there, what happened to them, did they choose to leave Greece on free will? Oh yes probably you will argue now that Macedonians where Greeks and all other kind of other blah blah.
On the matter of Cyprus Turkey gave the Greeks a fair chance to stop attrocities against the Turks there, and also the UN got its chance for at least 3 years to stop the Greek murders on Turks. But blinded by enosis your country left no other option. You might like it or not in 1974 Turkey saved the lives of thousands of Cypriot Turks, yes Greeks had to migrate to the south and Turks to the north of the island which might be considered as uncomfortable, but peace was secured and no massacres occurred after that.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/27/2003 15:59 Comments ||
Top||
#26
"But what about the Turks who where in Greece did you ever gave a thought?"
As I kinda mentioned the hundreds of thousands of Turks who still live in Greece, yes, very evidently I did indeed "ever give a thought"
They are still here. In Eastern Thrace. From the rest of the country they had to depart, same way that Greeks had to depart from Turkey, in the formal exchange of populations that followed the Asia Minor war of '22. That's old history, and you dragging up the muslims of Salonica, or of Thessaly or whatever, makes no sense, same way I didn't drag up the Greeks of Pontus or of Smyrna.
But you know very well that by treaty, Muslims were allowed to remain in Eastern Thrace and Greeks were allowed to remain in Western Thrace.
One of the countries abode by this agreement, and left its Muslim citizens there in peace, to worship and vote freely. But the other country constantly intimidated and harassed its Greek citizens, until they were nearly all forced to depart. That's called "ethnic cleansing" in my book.
Only a few including himself of the family of your grandfather managed to flee Greece alive? How nice. Some more details please? Are you referring to the Balkan wars that preceded World War I? Or to World War I itself? That's even *more* ancient history.
What about the Slavs who used to live here (whether they called themselves Macedonians or not) you ask? I think you know the answer to that also. Most of them left with the exchange of populations after the Balkan Wars, and the Greek civil war of '45 with the communists led to thousands of them being evicted as they supported the wrong side. They nowadays have the right to return for visits if they wish.
"You might like it or not in 1974 Turkey saved the lives of thousands of Cypriot Turks"
In 1974, the double crime against Cyprus occured, first by the Greek dictatorship who tried to make a coup against Makarios, secondly by the Turkish invaders of Attila. Only difference is that Greece recognizes the crime of its old dictatorship and Turkey not only doesn't recognize but perpetuates *its* crime.
How many massacres has Greece caused lately? We still hundreds of thousands of Muslim population, we could have massacred a few thousands, had we so wished. We didn't so wish it.
How much Christian population remains in *your* country Murat? What happened to the Armenians and the Greeks living there?
It's quite evident which country is the most peaceful nowadays. "By their deeds you shall know them."
#27
i must say that im undecided on the cyprus question, like most of us here so that continued discussion of this might influence my point of view. ;)
#28
Seems that only a month or so ago, no less than Kofi admitted he had failed to resolve the Cyprus issue. Doubt that we at Rantburg will achieve more. Or not?
Posted by: john ||
08/27/2003 19:40 Comments ||
Top||
#29
Btw, I kinda mixed up "Western" and "Eastern" in some of my posts above. It's Western Thrace that's (of course) part of Greece, and Eastern Thrace that's part of Turkey.
Though Western Thrace lies on the eastern part of Greece, and Eastern Thrace lie on the western part of Turkey. That's what confused me, yeah, that's the ticket. ;-)
#30
What is absolutely fascinating about both Aris and Murat's posts is the detailled descriptions of the terrible wrongs done to minorities in both countries. I hope both of these fellas keep that in mind when they point fingers at the big, bad US..
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
08/28/2003 4:26 Comments ||
Top||
Move Meant to Ease Allotment of Seats
By Daniel Williams
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 EFL
Iraqâs Governing Council, locked in laborious negotiations over choosing a cabinet, is about to expand the number of government ministries from 21 to 25, equal to the number of representatives on the council, Iraqi leaders said today. Thatâll make it easier to grease all of the extended palms...
Council members said the process of naming a cabinet has been slowed by efforts to apportion the membership among Iraqâs ethnic and religious groups, mainly the Shiite Muslim majority and the minority Sunni Muslims and ethnic Kurds, as well as Christians and women. To break the deadlock, the council will be asked Wednesday morning to formally approve an expanded cabinet that would, in effect, give each council member control over a cabinet post. Of course, the good of Iraq is their first and foremost goal, so the criteria being employed are based upon weighty considerations: what moon phase makes you howl, who butters your bread, who can yodel better - the really important shit.
The council, a U.S.-appointed body with limited powers, is under pressure from U.S. officials here to raise its public profile. Though having Iraqis choose their own cabinet is intended to signal the first blossom of their independence, key decisions would still be in the hands of the U.S.-dominated Coalition Provisional Authority. "blossom" - Now isnât that just precious? Wow. And close with the obligatory jab... otherwise you forfiet your Press Corps credentials, I think...
The proposed ministries are womenâs affairs, immigration, international cooperation and environment. Ooooh, "International Cooperation" - now that will be a primo post... 5-Star hotels, 1st Class world travel, The Ministry of Pleasure Junkets⢠- I want it, I want it! And, of course, thereâs so much more...
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 2:20:56 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Don't forget the "Ministry of Special Favors" and the "Ministry of Funny Walks".
#2
er, uhm, jealous fighting over cabinet posts, and the perks that go with them, is the bread and butter of democracies. Dot com youd better not spend alot of time reading the Jerusalem Post or Haaretz - the manuevering for cabinet posts and perks will be too much for your sensitive soul. 25 isnt an unreasonably large cabinet in such circumstances, and a neat political solution. i mean where did we get the number of 25 for the governing council anyway? enough to give everybody representation and balance. Same considerations that go into making up a cabinet. So just turn the IGC into a cabinet - makes sense to me.
BTW "first blossom of independence" curious to note that modern Orthodox and Conservative prayerbooks refer to the state of Israel as "the first blossom of redemption" - is that language too precious???? Now I wouldnt have expected you to know that dot com, but still .....
#3
LH - Nope, I didn't. Won't go get one to look it up, either. ;-> I'll take your word for it! Mebbe Daniel Williams was aware of it, however, though I doubt it. I'll bet he just thought he was being clever and "fresh" in his prose. Wanna bet? ;-)
'Well, this is a change from the past. It is not like when Saddam Hussein ruled," said Mowaffak Rubaie, an independent Shiite representative. "He used to name a cabinet in one minute. We have to negotiate." '
#7
They had to do something with the office buildings anyway now that the bureaucracy surrounding the Huissain family is no more. As one pundit I read in National Post pointed out, you can't let the Ministry of Genital Clamping Stand idle. Property values fall in blighted districts of cities.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 13:50 Comments ||
Top||
#8
LH - political whoring is political whoring, no matter who does it. Does that cover your question? Now you go play with the trolls.
A special Philippines commission has recommended seven police officers face criminal charges relating to the escape of a convicted Jemaah Islamiyah bomb expert. The commission was created by President Gloria Arroyo to investigate the escape from jail of Fathur Rohman Al Ghozi. It has cancelled any accountability by top officials of the Philippine National Police, the commission instead pointed to simple neglect and human error as the reasons for the escape. It found fault in the design of the terrorist's prison cell, which allegedly made it easy for him to bolt jail. The commission also blamed the prison guards and their superiors for failing to report the incident to the police chief soon enough for action to be taken. The commission recommended that charges of negligence be filed against seven police officers, who were directly in charge of the terrorist's detention.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 19:31 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
Indonesian cleric Abu Bakar Bashir has accused the judges at his treason trial of trying to destroy the Islamic faith.
"The Islamic faith — it is I! Destroy me, you destroy it all! Hahahahaha!" (drool)
As they set the verdict date for next Tuesday, the 65-year-old cleric said the judges would face the "wrath of God" if they found him guilty.
"Yep. Gonna turn you all into pillars of salt!"
"If the panel of judges agrees with the evil accusations and indictment of the prosecutor, then it will mean that this court is lurching towards evil and tyranny," Mr Bashir said in his final defence plea. Threatening the court is not considered a good move in most places.
Indonesian prosecutors have demanded a sentence of 15 years for Mr Bashir, who is on trial for his alleged involvement in a series of church bombings in which 19 people were killed more than two years ago. Prosecutors have also claimed that under Mr Bashirâs spiritual leadership, the Muslim militant group Jemaah Islamiah (JI) plotted to kill Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri, with the wider aim of establishing an Islamic state in Indonesia. The cleric has denied the charges against him, saying he only engaged in a peaceful campaign to uphold traditional Islamic law. "I am not guilty. This trial is about my struggle for the imposition of Sharia law," he said. "With me in charge, cuz Iâm a holy man."
He has accused the United States and Israel of fabricating evidence linking him to Islamic terrorists. "This trial is fuelled by the enemy of God, the US Government and its allies," he told the court on Wednesday. "All of this is aimed at fracturing Islam so that it could be dictated and dominated," he said. Works for me.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 9:06:34 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Pussyboy that he is, he's pulling out all the stops. What a gutless little turd.
#3
Hang the little toilet-bowl product with a barbed-wire noose. Either that, or drop his (Islamic) flag-draped remains into Borneo to feed the worms. From about 25K, without a 'chute.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/27/2003 11:14 Comments ||
Top||
#4
"Indonesian cleric Abu Bakar Baâasyir has accused the judges at his treason trial of trying to destroy the Islamic faith."
I've always found my work day goes more quickly when there's an overiding principle to the task at hand. Good to see the judges have picked a worthwhile one!
#5
Can you doubt the critical nature of dealing with terrorism in Indonesia?
Indonesian prosecutors have demanded a sentence of 15 years for Mr Baâasyir . . . alleged involvement in a series of church bombings in which 19 people were killed . . . also . . . under Mr Baâasyirâs spiritual leadership . . . plotted to kill Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri . . .
15 years? Compare that with how suspected communists were treated after the attempted coup in the 1960s. Do you think there is any preferential treatment going on? The problems in South-east Asia must be dealt with decisively, or âAcehismâ will permeate the entire region and make Afghanistan look tame.
#6
"I am not guilty. This trial is about my struggle for the imposition of Sharia law," he said.
You're guilty by THEIR laws of illegal and violent usurpation of the function of the Legislature and Judiciary via coordination of terroristic acts, not violations of your precious, but unestablished, Sharia law, dimwit.
#8
The guy needs to be denied an audience for starters, then solitary, then heavy metal, and then [fill in the blanks]
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 21:21 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Hmmmmm... Heavy metal... 24 hours a day, for fifteen years, at about 240 decibels. Pink Floyd, Acid, Smashing Pumpkins, whoever else is the "king" of heavy metal these days (I don't even listen to classical these days, which I like). Make sure it's something with lyrics comprised of words most sailors would find offensive. Complement the music with flashing lights and changes in air pressure. I'm SURE our beloved Islamic cleric will enjoy his sentence... NOT!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/28/2003 0:10 Comments ||
Top||
The Jemaah Islamiah group blamed for the Bali bombings is far bigger than previously thought and is now producing a new generation of Islamic warriors from the children of its members, an in-depth study reveals.
That would be all the kiddies in the madrassahs, of course. Shoulda shut them down when they started rounding up the boom artists...
While police have arrested about 90 JI members in Indonesia, and another 120 in Malaysia and Singapore, the terrorist organisation is replenishing its ranks with young "jihadists", according to the report by the Brussels-based International Crisis Group (ICG). These young recruits are now enrolled in a group of Indonesian Islamic boarding schools, spread across the archipelago. In addition, serious doubts are raised about the prospects of containing JIâs terrorist activities because of its extensive links with at least five other organisations that co-operate and share common ideology.
It's not the tumor that kills you, it's the disease...
The report warns that JI is "far from destroyed", with a network now extending "far beyond its formal members . . . a JI member can work with another organisation with the approval of his mantiqi [regional] or wakalah [district] leader". An example of how JI co-operates with other groups is provided by the bombing of a McDonaldâs restaurant and a car showroom in Makassar in Sulawesi. Less than two months after the Bali attacks, the bombings were originally thought to have been carried out by JI, but turned out to be the work of two South Sulawesi-based organisations, Wahdah Islamiah and Laskar Jundullah. These organisations "co-operated with JI and may even have been modelled after it, but were completely independent in terms of leadership. The Makassar bombings appear to have been conducted without much, if any, consultation with JI leadership."
Not that they would have turned them down â but this way it didn't cost them anything...
The report is the latest in a series produced by the ICGâs Indonesia director, Sidney Jones, who has spent most of her life studying radical Islam in Indonesia, where she lives. The full report is available here
Critical in helping JI to survive is a group of Islamic boarding schools, or pesantren, which have harboured JI members on the run from police and which have some sympathy to the aims of JI to create an Islamic state in South-East Asia. Although the Indonesian Government has ruled out following Malaysiaâs example by closing down some of these schools, the report says this relative handful out of Indonesiaâs 14,000 pesantren are one way JI is replenishing its ranks. Some of these prestige schools form an "Ivy League" where JI members send their own children. Of these, the al-Mukmin school at Ngruki, in Central Java, founded by Abu Bakar Bashir â the man accused of being JIâs spiritual leader â is the best known. But there are at least three others in this group, including the al-Islam pesantren in East Java founded by the brothers of Amrozi, who has been sentenced to death for the Bali bombings. In Balikpapan, East Kalimantan, a school called Hidayatullah has a network of 127 schools "several of which became places of shelter or transit for JI members at different times". The Bali bomb accused Ali Imron is one of three JI members to have used these schools to avoid arrest.
This is identical behavior to the Pak madrassahs. When Binny finally buys his farm, it'll probably be in a shootout at a madrassah...
Another key feature helping JI survive is a web of marriage alliances, often organised by senior JI members, that means the organisation can resemble a "giant extended family", the report says. "In some cases, JI leaders appear to have arranged marriages for their subordinates to serve the interests of their organisation", with the reliability of the wife apparently a criterion for JI membership. The report cites the marriage of the alleged operational commander of the Bali bombings, Mukhlas, as an example of how JI uses marriage to grow.
The same phenomenon is to be seen in Pakland. Part of it's the "family business" end, and part of it's dynastic marriage. Hambali, by the way, is reported to have a Pak wife, in Quetta. I don't know which religious crime lord holy man she's related to by blood... And I think we've already touched on the Soddies' habit of marrying close relatives...
While JI has undoubted links with the terrorist group al-Qaeda, the report says the relationship "may be less one of subservience . . . than of mutual advantage and reciprocal assistance". Although al-Qaeda may help fund specific programs, it "neither directs nor controls it", the report concludes. Rather that just an "Al-Qaeda affiliate", JI is a highly organised, professional and lethal group in itâs own right
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/27/2003 5:13:06 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Another key feature helping JI survive is a web of marriage alliances, often organised by senior JI members, that means the organisation can resemble a "giant extended family", the report says.
If you follow Rantburg, you've noticed that these groups always seem to be made up of large extended families. More proof that inbreeding does cause insanity.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 11:40 Comments ||
Top||
#2
If you follow Rantburg, you've noticed that these groups always seem to be made up of large extended families.
Interesting point. Another similarity with the Thugs.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 12:28 Comments ||
Top||
As Palestinian President Yasser Arafat said on Wednesday, August 27, he is ready to take action against resistance groups if Israel halted attacks on them, an Israeli official said the armyâs assassinations policy would continue unabated. "I am prepared to implement the law (against activists) on condition Israel stops its attacks," Arafat said in an interview with Reuters carried by Swissinfo.org. Elaborating on no steps to be taken, Arafat said he would not risk a Palestinian civil war. Arafat said he had ordered the detention of Hamas and other group leaders earlier in a 35-month-old Intifada against Israeli occupation and will do so again if Israel stopped its aggressions. "Haven't I arrested Hamas leaders (before)? Haven't I placed some of them under house arrest? I'm not prepared to fuel a Palestinian civil war. But I am prepared to implement the law on condition Israel halts attacks," the Palestinian leader said at his compound where Israeli forces have besieged him for 18 months.
Well, yeah. Of course you have, Yasser... Ummm... When?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 19:46 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Arafat is playing the war of attrition against Israel with this little bone, like he has done for, well, generations now. No more blown up children and women. It has to end, NOW.
The Arafish is irrelevant, sitting in his heavily depreciated HQ. Pay him no mind and get on with business. If we acknowledge him, this cycle of violence will keep going on.
Keep up the heat on Hamas and be done with it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 20:13 Comments ||
Top||
#2
on, as usual AP - Arafish's ploys to stay influential is the death knell for Abbas and the "Road Mapâ¢", which has had more setbacks and detours than even I expected. I really hope this was a Bush "I really tried, but those Paleos don't want peace" move
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 20:43 Comments ||
Top||
#3
I sure hope that this is Bush's Last and Best Tryâ¢, Frank. I hope that you are right. If this was the US taking the punishment, Arafat would be fish fertilizer, instead of staring bug-eyed out the window of his Villa Ramalla.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 21:09 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Yasser is a majician. Best to ignore what he says and does totally. If Abbas does about four effective thngs in a row, shoot Arafat immediately and anonomously. From there see where the momentum takes us.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 21:29 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Let's make a deal, Arafat: We'll hit 'em high, you hit 'em low, and we'll flush the bastards out twice as fast. Right up your alley. Whatd'ya say?
If the Israelis fall for THIS, then they will be an honorable mention for the Darwin Awards.
#6
LMAO! Now way is ARAFART going to arrest anyone (unless they oppose him). Lobbing a couple of Big Blues into his compound would do wonders for peace.
It seems that the LA Times poll did not sway many people. Funny how two organizations in the SAME town can come up with opposite polling numbers? I think the mask is off the LA Times that has been acting like the Dems pimp/whore.
An exclusive Eyewitness News poll conducted by Survey USA, shows Arnold Schwarzenegger has a wide lead again, with support of 45-percent of registered voters. Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamante has 29-percent. Our exclusive survey could come as a surprise to some. It only counts registered voters who say they will cast a ballot October 7. The poll is based on 591 California residents who say they are certain to vote Oct. 7. Though the Republican vote is splintered Arnold Schwarzenegger would win office today even though Cruz Bustamante is winning endorsements.
That's what I think is going to happen in October, too...
The numbers are reversing since August 11th survey. Tom McClintock and Peter Uberroth top the rest of the field and the survey could give Governor Gray Davis some concern. If the recall election were today, he would be ousted by 64-percent of the vote with only a 35-percent vote of confidence. ABCNews Political Director Mark Halperin is not surprised our poll differs from others. He believes no one has a lock on the race yet. Halperin says, "There has been different polling showing Arnold Schwarzenegger up and down. Itâs hard to know where he stands. We know Arnold Schwarzenegger has a nice base of support and Cruz Bustamante has a nice base of support. The question is where will the undecided voter end up on Election Day." Survey USAâs Director of Election Polling says what makes this race different is there are brand new voters â energized by this unique race. He thinks the turnout will be higher than the 54-percent voting in the governorâs race last year.
I'm not too sure about that...
Just who will go to the polls in six weeks is hard to predict because they expect a lot of people who didnât vote for Governor last year. The poll will not be conducted over the Labor Day weekend â our next survey is in two weeks when the election is one month away. The field of candidates and campaign issues could be different. Since the Dems were slobbering over the LA Times poll, they will probably discount poll data now that this does not favor them
#2
As an ex-Kal-ee-forn-yan, I am following this whole sordid recall campaign with interest. The issues are being skirted and/or defined now, and the whores pollsters have their own agenda, so the polls mean little now. Some of those media clowns who use their rags, mags, tubes, etc. as a means to an end will have some serious egg on their faces when the election results come in and the public has spoken. That will be a healthy thing in the end of this process.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 18:29 Comments ||
Top||
#3
the LA Times actually added "virtual" hispanic voters to the total so as to match the % in population...yeah, right. They're scared because all the effort they've put in trying to keeping davis and Donks in power might be wasted....should be fun, especially after Giuliani endorses Arnold (coming up), but it WILL get dirty
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 19:35 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Frank G - It will get dirty? Where have you been? :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/27/2003 20:44 Comments ||
Top||
The title reminds me of Basil Fawlty saying to Manuel "Whatever you do,donât mention the war"
After several months of permitting Chinaâs intellectuals the freedom to call for political reform, ponder far-reaching revisions to the constitution and consider changes in the official history of the Tiananmen Square crackdown, the Communist Party has ordered a halt to such debate, and security personnel have begun harassing leading academics, economists and legal scholars, sources here say.
The Chinese do this periodically â encourage people to stick their necks out, then cut off the heads of those who do. I think it's called culling the herd...
In the past weeks, party organizations, research institutes and universities have been instructed to stop all conferences and suppress all essays about those three topics, according to sources within the Communist Party. The new instructions spell out these "three unmentionables," while the Propaganda Ministry has informed Chinaâs news media that there are additional subjects that can no longer be broached. Well thats progress for you, it used to be a list a mile long of unmentionables, now we are down to just three items.
Participants in a conference on constitutional reform have been followed, interrogated or instructed to stop speaking about the issues. This month, security personnel began trailing and harassing the conference organizer, Cao Siyuan, one of Chinaâs experts on bankruptcy and a leading advocate of political reform, Chinese sources said. The conference was held June 19-20 in the coastal city of Qingdao. Two other participants have also faced criticism from the authorities: Jiang Ping, a leading legal scholar and the former dean of the University of Politics and Law, and Zhu Houze, a former propaganda chief for the party. Separately, in internal meetings over the summer at universities and government institutes, some influential scholars have called for a reevaluation of the official position on the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown. Lets see a show of hands for those who think it was a tyrannical bloodbath....
They questioned the governmentâs version that the party was right to open fire on students who marched for democracy. My Heavens Ethel!!, Get me the smelling salts, Quick!!
Chinese sources said the number and vociferousness of these demands had worried party officials, especially those close to Jiang Zemin, the former Communist Party boss and president. Jiang rose to power after the Tiananmen crackdown, and any change in the official version would undermine his legitimacy and that of people he placed in power. More broadly, the effort to muffle debate about the three issues appears to be part of a broader struggle between Jiang and his successor, Hu Jintao, according to the Chinese sources and analysts. Jiang and his allies, the sources said, generally oppose any political loosening. By contrast, Hu has portrayed himself as a friend of reformers and other progressives, attempting to gain their support in his struggle against Jiang. Hu was appointed general secretary of the Communist Party last November and became Chinaâs president in March. He had waited for more than a decade to succeed Jiang, 76. But on the Standing Committee of the Politburo, the partyâs most powerful body, Jiang surrounded Hu with his old allies. Of the nine members of the Politburoâs Standing Committee, five are believed to be loyal to Jiang. The former leader kept for himself one of Chinaâs most powerful positions, head of the Central Military Commission, which controls the army. His men also took prominent positions on the State Council, the cabinet, in a move to hamstring Huâs main ally, Premier Wen Jiabao.
Pretty typical. Nobody really wants to give up the jeweled turban and the dancing girls... Well, I guess they don't have turbans in China...
This spring, both sides attempted to use the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, to their advantage. Jiang and his supporters followed the partyâs traditional tactic: denying there was a crisis. However, by late April, Hu and Wen teamed up to force the party to cooperate with the World Health Organization and fight the disease. Hu and Wen also fired the health minister, a Jiang loyalist, and the newly appointed mayor of Beijing. Li Fan, a leading political analyst in Beijing, said that by fighting SARS and firing incompetent officials, Hu further consolidated his position as Chinaâs new leader. Indeed, throughout China, support for Hu and Wen skyrocketed once the party joined the fight against the disease.
That happens when leaders actually lead...
The SARS crisis created a window of opportunity for intellectuals to call for change, a subtle way for them to suggest that Jiang exit Chinaâs political stage and leave the country to Hu and Wen. So SARS may have the same effect on China that Chernobyl had on the Soviets? Stay tuned......
Li said Hu also won points by doing away with the annual summer meetings of Communist Party leaders at the resort town of Beidaihe and the partyâs tradition of elaborate send-offs for officials traveling overseas. All wearing little Fezâs and driving mini mustang cars in a parade too, I think....
Many of the recent calls for change appeared to be a throwback to 1988 and the Third Plenum of the 13th Congress of the Communist Party, when the party general secretary, Zhao Ziyang, advocated political reform and the separation of the party and the government, and direct elections for local union leaders, among other reforms. Zhao was later ousted from his party post after Tiananmen because he opposed the bloody crackdown. On July 25, the Workersâ Daily published a call by Su Liqing, a senior official in Chinaâs government-controlled labor union, for direct elections of local union bosses by factory workers. More Smelling Salts Ethel!
This proposal had not been broached officially since before the Tiananmen crackdown. Also, a group of five senior party elders, including Wan Li, Qiao Shi and Deng Lijun, wrote letters urging Jiang to step down from all his positions. And independent intellectuals began raising the idea of revising the official history of Tiananmen. Several other articles appeared in Study Times, a Communist Party publication run by the Central Party School. Over the past two months, the periodical has published six pieces advocating political reform. In early June, Seeking Truth, the partyâs main theoretical publication Better than calling it "The Snipe Hunt Quarterly" I guess....
ran an article calling for more democracy within the party not for you jokers on the street of course, but for just us guys in the party mind you.....
On Aug. 3, Study Times published an article urging party committees to stop interfering in the affairs of government departments â an idea last broached in 1988. The struggle has also stretched into the news media, which in recent months has been full of conflicting signals. Following an explosion of ground-breaking reports during the SARS epidemic, the Propaganda Ministry, led by a Jiang loyalist, Liu Yunshan, has issued a series of circulars banning reports on a variety of topics. This Just In Comrade!, Socialism found to be worst of all possible governments, Details at 11:00"
At the same time, Liuâs ostensible boss, Li Changchun, a member of the Politburoâs Standing Committee, has been pushing a major reorganization of the state-run press that will result in the shuttering of scores of party newspapers and end the practice of forcing government units to subscribe to party newspapers. This reorganization, triggered by the increasing power of the Chinese media market, means that many party newspapers that previously enjoyed guaranteed circulation will have to compete to attract readers. Quick!, Lo Pan! get the flit, I see an outbreak of the evil market forces demon!
At the Qingdao conference, 41 leading Chinese academics and a few government officials presented papers on constitutional reform. China is planning to revise its constitution next year. Wu Bangguo, the chairman of the National Peopleâs Congress, is chairing a special committee on the issue. Chinese sources close to that committee said there are two main additions to the constitution being debated. One is a clause protecting private property Bingo! private property being the cornerstone of human liberty, that being if you cant own property you ARE property. ,
another sign of the increasing power of the market economy in China. The other is a clause enshrining the "Three Represents," a modification of Marxist theory developed by Jiang that says the Communist Party should represent the interests of all the people, including businesses, rather than just the working class. To paraphrase Capt. Yossarian, "wow thats some modification...."
"The party is the binding of the fasces..." I don't think it was Mao who said that.
Writing the Three Represents into the constitution is significant because it will secure Jiangâs legacy and give Jiang a status almost equivalent to Communist Chinaâs two other towering figures, Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping. This is important to Jiangâs allies because, with their former boss a recognized "great man" of China, their current positions would be more secure.
Ahah! He just wants to make sure he's deified...
But at the Qingdao meeting, conference organizer Cao and others lambasted Jiangâs efforts to write himself into the constitution. Cao issued a statement saying the constitution should be free from all ideology â a direct slap at Jiang. Not to mention a boot in the ass of Lenin, Stalin and Marx
"He might have gone too far," said one participant, who has been followed by security agents for several weeks. "But we all agreed with him." Boy, A written constitution, a guarantee of property rights and attempting to be free of ideology within the law? if this sort of thing catches on in Europe, what will be the state of world socialism then?
Yeah, except for the part about the party being the binding that holds society together. Wonder if we could make some money exporting black shirts to China when the new constitution comes in?
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 2:32:03 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Groucho Marx, Lenin, and Stalin will be turning in their graves when they hear this on Coast to Coast.
(Did they bury Lenin or is he still topside?)
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 14:50 Comments ||
Top||
#2
The official word is that it really is old vladimir under glass in red square, but the word on the street has always been that its a wax dummy. ( How could Stalin allow forensic evidence that he had Lenin killed to exist? easy, put him on display and then not allow anyone to touch him. pretty clever, eh comrade!)
Looks like a case where the corpse lasted longer than the ideas of the man himself. I cant think of a better totem of the failure of communism than either a rotting corpse kept preserved under glass or a wax dummy taking the place of a man to keep up the illusion. it works on so many levels.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 15:15 Comments ||
Top||
#3
In the past weeks, party organizations, research institutes and universities have been instructed to stop all conferences and suppress all essays about those three topics, according to sources within the Communist Party.
The next time any of the usual dumbasses complain about dissent in the U.S. being "crushed" by GWB and his administration, point them directly at China for a really good example on how such a thing is done and ask them: Is this really what's happening in the U.S.????
#4
whats going on in china has nothing to do with socialism.
the proposed constitutional change by the "bad guys" says that the Communist party should be held to represent business, as well as workers (and peasants) How is this socialist? Any meaningful socialist party represent the interests of the working class, against all other interests. A social democratic party, functioning in a liberal society, accepts the existence of other interests, and represents the interest of the working class against them. The communist part of China, historically denied the rights of other parties to exist - they denied the rights of any interests other than workers and peasants to exist, - thus the Communist party, as purported defender of workers and peasants was the sole legitimate party.
China today is capitalist - arguably one of the most Dickensian, capitalist states on the planet. The party thus faces a choice - to recognise the rights of other parties to organize - and thus to attempt to become a social democratic party - like some of the reformed Communist parties of eastern europe - or to try to represent all interests, thus becoming more or less a fascist party. the communist party is choosing to put absolute power ahead of socialism, and so is choosing the fascist model. (note well - in this discussion i have made no distinction between democratic socialism and social democracy - a distinction i consider important in other contexts)
#5
Good discussion, and interesting thoughts but I would say its a bit like the catholics excusing the inquisition by saying 'sure,bad things happened, but it wasnt really true christianity'.
Socialism - rather done in small parts or in whole parcel, always leads back to the tyranny of the state over the individual. Whether or not its done for the peoples "own good" is never the question but it is always the answer given by tyrants to justify their inhuman rule.
Socialism falls right after the idea of 'heaven on earth' or utopia as one of the most distructive ideas invented by mankind.
In regards to China, I wouldnt say its capitalist, as it barely recognizes a market based economy, the fact that it uses money is inconsequential. I would say that it holds more true to fascism more than it does to communism, but I've always felt there isnt a whole lot of difference between those two in the first place ( fascist tyrants tend to insist on uniforms largely black with red piping while communist tyrants, tend to prefer more red devices and bigger hats, other than that, they use the same methods to control and kill their people. )
( I really,really hate the Nazis, but they did have some sharp looking uniforms, democracies tend to make uniforms that look like bus drivers. )
My posting was in recognition that China appears to be at a crossroads, one that still catches me by surprise. But then again I was surprised when the soviet union collapsed largely because ( it seemed to me anyway) they all woke up one day and realized there wasnt any money in communism and it might be nice to have more than one brand of toilet paper.
I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised again.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 20:28 Comments ||
Top||
#6
"I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised again."
Nor would I. In my case, "wouldn't mind" would be an understatement to put an Englishman to shame.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/27/2003 20:57 Comments ||
Top||
#7
I look at the handiwork of Deng and see pure mastery. Machiavelli would be proud.
To my mind, part of what's going on is heading off a crisis over free speech. It's being kicked down the road until the next generation. At the same time, institutional changes are being put in place to give a firmer base for reform. Control is retained, but the institutional instruments of control are being removed. The institutions are being changed with amazing speed.
The RAND study on regime change in war has a lot of thought I think applies here. The party elites have set up a tyranny system of sorts. Each generation of leaders weakens the entirety as a means of retaining control. Unlike a tyranny, it's not done through cruelty to the populace, but rather the populace is the threat held by the inner party against the outer party. The prize to be looted is not money or power, but immortality. In establishing the system and setting it in motion, Deng has secured his own immortality. Ziang is sticking around to ensure that his is secured as well, with including the 'Three Represents' in the constitution.
A bomb exploded Tuesday in Ein el-Hilweh refugee camp in south Lebanon slightly inuring a girl, a Lebanese security source reported.
From a safe distance... Wearing a flak jacket...
According to KUNA, the bomb exploded at the entrance of Ali Ahmad Al-Zubeidat house in Ras Al-Ahmar neighborhood, which led to the injury of his daughter Fatmah, 18.
"Fatmah! Look out!... Oooh! That must hurt!"
Following this blast, shooting was reported between Fatah activists and members of Islamic factions. "Ali, who are we shooting at again?"
"Weâre shooting at that islamic faction over there."
"But Ali, arnât we a islamic faction?"
"Nah, Fatah is a muslim activist group. Thereâs a difference."
It should be noted that the son of the owner of the house, which was targeted is a member of Fatah. So, I guess that means it must have been the islamic faction, or somebody else.
Meanwhile, a dynamite stick went off last night in a barrel next to the home of the chairman of the municipality of Libya, Ali Al-Jabali in the western Beqaa, but no damages were reported. Must be the Al-Hellhole version of a M-80 in a mailbox.
Al-Jabali, a Hezbollah official, said in statements that he does not accuse anyone and it is the security forces mission to discover the perpetrators. He doesnât expect them to do anything either.
"I ain't accusin' nobody of boomin' my trash barrel. I has my suspicions, mind yez, but I ain't accusin' nobody... It was only one stick of dynamite, after all... Next time it could be more... Help me get this 9" shard of garbage can out of poor Fatmah's forehead, wouldja?"
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 1:19:45 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Headline should be: Juvenile Deliquency on the Rise Even in Terrorist Camps of Lebanon.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 21:35 Comments ||
Top||
#2
What's next for Al-Jabali? Light up the bag of dogshit and ring the doorbell?
Cities are full of schools named Washington, Adams and Jefferson. In Stockton, however, a school has been named for a current president, apparently for the first time ever.
Not Stockton, Kali-four-niya?
G.W. Bush school is the first to be built with funds from an $80 million bond approved by voters in 2000. The $13 million campus is situated on 12 acres near the Stockton Auto Mall. It will be home to 850 students. Although the furniture at Bush Elementary looks expensive, the school district didnât go over budget buying it. The upgrades and many of the schools computers were paid for through donations. Pictures of President Bush, First Lady Laura Bush and the coupleâs pets are prominent in the school. Pictures of GWB and the fair lady Laura I can understand, but the pets? I think thats pretty odd.
Even the furnishings in the office look a bit like they came from the White House. Its possible that they do, I believe the former occupants made a small fortune hocking the office goods on Ebay.
The decorating theme is lost on some of the younger students, though. When asked by a reporter if he knew who George W. Bush is, the child answered, "Yes, the governor." Well the kid is partially right, he was the govenor, but of another state but the old man has had a promotion since then.
It isnât likely students will become familiar with their schoolâs namesake any time soon, at least not in person. Despite repeated invitations, the president has sent word that his schedule does not allow for a visit to the school. Iâd say its not Georges style to self agrandize.
I actually disagree with things like this, even though I like Bush just fine. It's my opinion nothing should be named after a government official while he's alive. It costs a lot of money to change all those signs â think what'll happen when Robert Byrd is dead and become Robert Who? It also avoids egos like Saddam or Muammar (The Leader of the Revolutionâ¢) or Turkmenbashi or more others than you can shake a stick at indulging themselves using the public purse. And yes, I'm convinced Bill Clinton would have named things after himself if he'd thought he could get away with it.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 12:07:58 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Pets go with it being an elementary school, I think.
#2
Not that I have a problem with George W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan or anything but when did we start naming schools, airports and carriers after living people?
#3
I agree, I think its just creepy to name stuff after living people( and naming anything after Bob Byrd is just a double helping of wierd). I just posted it cause I thought it was, well, just wierd. I can't see a school board of any political stripe approving such a thing. Did they think they would be showered with goodies for this little honor? hardly. Unless its an underhanded attempt by the teachers union to ensure that this school becomes a stage for how education is "failing the students", I just dont see the logic or the point to it.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 14:08 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Eh, I don't think Reagan counts. He's non compos mentis; it's almost like being dead. Of course, this is sort of like the early Julio-Claudians waiting until people were dead to declare them gods (at least in Rome - the provinces were another story). After "Little Boots", all that went out the window...
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
08/27/2003 14:11 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Can you imagine anyone driving around with a bumper sticker that says"
"My daughter is an honor student at William Jefferson Clinton High School"
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
08/27/2003 14:42 Comments ||
Top||
#6
Can you imagine anyone driving around with a bumper sticker that says" "My daughter is an honor student at William Jefferson Clinton High School"
If I saw that bumper sticker, I would wonder how she earned her honors.
Posted by: Tibor ||
08/27/2003 14:46 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Self-aggrandizement is getting to be more and more common in general. Some honors should always be post-mortem: "Death before honor!"
More than 9,000 minks set free from a Sultan, Washington, fur farm by an animal liberation group this week were back in their pens but hundreds more were still roaming the nearby woods. Police and volunteers helped Roesler Brothers Fur Farm workers capture the foot-long critters, worth about $40 apiece, with nets, snares and their bare hands. "Theyâre not real tame -- theyâll bite if you pick them up," Sultan Police Chief Fred Wasler told Reuters. "Iâve never been around minks, so Iâm far from an expert and I got bit a few times before I learned how to pick them up." Guess the qualifications for chief of police in Sultan donât include common sense.
Workers found holes cut in fences surrounding the farm and all of the cages opened, though thousands of the animals never ventured from their pens. Course not, they were born and raised in those pens, thatâs all the home they know.
Local news outlets received e-mails from the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), which has struck fur farms across the U.S. Northwest, claiming to have released the minks. Since ALF is considered a domestic terrorist group by law enforcement agencies, the FBI has been called in to help investigate, Wasler said. Iâm sure theyâll get to ALF right after they catch ELF. In other words, donât hold your breath.
Critics say releasing domesticated minks is more inhumane than killing them for fur, arguing that the caged animals are ill-equipped to survive in the wild, even in the rich woodlands of western Washington. "They found four or five squashed on the highway," Wasler said. "A lot of them just milled around the open cages." Poor minks, Iâd put the ALF members in a cage with a few dozen hungry mink and let the fun begin.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 11:57:25 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
FBI: "We're looking at a Steven Hatfill as a person of interest ...."
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 13:02 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Iâm sure theyâll get to ALF right after they catch ELF.
They already caught ALF. The problem is, a series finale was never made. ;)
On September 15, 1963, a Sunday morning, Condi was standing inside her fatherâs church when she felt the floor shake. A bomb had exploded two blocks away at Sixteenth Street Baptist Church, killing four young black girls. One was Riceâs schoolmate. That blast, rather than derailing the civil rights movement, energized the crusade to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Rice would later say the memory of "home-grown terrorism" from 1960s Birmingham flooded back into her mind after the 9/11 attacks. These early childhood memories have become a cornerstone in Riceâs political convictions about the importance of human dignity and individual liberty for all people. In the war on terror, Condolezza Rice, Bushâs National Security Advisor, is a key player. This is an excellent overview of Condiâs upbringing, where sheâs coming from, and gives an idea of what to expect from her.
To any lurking Islamofreaks: THIS is what youâre up against, and what youâre missing by suppressing your wimmenfolk. Give the f*ck up. Yâall are DOOMED.
Posted by: Ptah ||
08/27/2003 10:50:27 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
It's too bad that she and Colin Powell are (Aunt and) Uncle Toms allowed to serve in the master's house, otherwise they'd make great role models. Oh well, someday we'll get another Jocelyn Elders.
#2
Hey Anonymous to afraid to be known given you'll be blasted for the "Uncle Tom" slurs? Sounds like you'd prefer that they were down on the plantation with you rather than making it on their own and doing something for their country. Y'all can always move to France or Canada.
Posted by: Jim K ||
08/27/2003 11:43 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Um hmm. And from your tone and attitude, Anonymous, it appears that you feel yourself particularly suited and emotionally equipped to play Simon Legree as counterpoint to her "Uncle Tom", no?
Mugabeâs government, grappling with the countryâs worst political and economic crisis since independence in 1980, hiked retail fuel prices by up to 300 percent in April, but petrol still commands much higher prices on the black market. The Herald newspaper said police raided Comoil â owned by legislator Saviour Kasukuwere â and impounded 35,000 litres of petrol and diesel. Kasukuwere is a member of the decision-making politburo in Mugabeâs ruling ZANU-PF party. Police were not immediately available for comment on the case, one of the first to target a senior ZANU-PF member. Zimbabweâs fuel woes have worsened since a trade deal with supplier Libya collapsed last November, a sign of the countryâs economic crisis which has also brought shortages of foreign currency, food and local banknotes. Bob ran out of stuff to give Libya for the oil.
Muammar holds the mortgage on Zim-Bob-We. I think he's going to give it to his kid as a wedding present, when he marries the Ugandan princess...
Limited fuel supplies have become especially galling for Zimbabweans, with public transport companies hiking prices and motorists forced to queue for hours to fill their tanks. The government has liberalised fuel imports to ease shortages, ending a monopoly formerly held by state oil company NOCZIM. But new entrants to the sector say they cannot viably operate at the prices set by the state. The Herald said Comoil was selling petrol and diesel at up to seven times the official rates. Kasukuwere was not available for comment on Wednesday. The newspaper did not say if he might face charges. Sounds like Mr. Kasukuwere didnât give Bob his piece of the action. Guess heâll have to pay a "fine".
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 10:25:50 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
You would think they would have saved a large homestead for Mumar's son. I would expect that an oil trade agreement would have been important enough. Maybe Qadafi's skin was too light to qualify for a farming land redistribution/grant.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 20:53 Comments ||
Top||
President Bush, defending the U.S. occupation of Iraq, on Tuesday vowed to pursue the war against terrorism which he said had in part had prompted the U.S. action against Baghdad. "Our war on terror continues," Bush told about 600 supporters at a lunch in Minnesota that raised $1.2 million for his 2004 re-election bid. He likened the ousted Iraqi government to that in Afghanistan which had given haven to al Qaedaâs Osama bin Laden, calling both "terror regimes.." "Those regimes chose defiance, and those regimes are no more," he said. Here I would agree with Bush in that both Afghanistan and Iraq are "terror regimes". However, both regimes still exist and are possibly strengthening. But, hereâs where he really loses me:
White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said that in his speech in St Louis to the American Legion, a war veterans group, the president would say that "we will take the battle to the terrorists so we donât have to fight them on our shores." This is the new argument; that we will fight terrorism on the battlefield of our choosing. This is a dangerous mis-conception that only serves the narrow administration view that Saddam Hussien was a primary orchestrator of the worldwide muslim terror offensive against the US and its allies. Whatever proliferation of weapons that may have occurred in Iraq would appear to have been exacerbated by our invasion as any WMDâs that might have existed were probably dispersed, perhaps to Syria or Iran.
What is the value in using Iraq as a terror magnet? Apart from the daily attacks on our soldiers by Iraqi resistance - possibly aided by some outside terror network, possibly no more than remnants of the Republican Guard or the like- alot of the devastating bombings of late have taken place in countries away from the Iraqi battlefield.
What is it about our operation in Iraq that would support the argument that we wonât have to fight them (terrorists)on our shores? Most observers predict another devastating attack in the US is inevitable if not imminent. Further, by likening Iraq to the worldwide muslim terror offensive the president does what Hussien could not; he binds Iraqis to the Muslim resistance, practically inviting them to join the battle there and ally with the forces that threaten our soldiers daily. This will create, not a democratic wedge against Muslim extremism in the region, but sadly, American targets in Iraq whose lives are no less important than ours here in the states.
To be fair to Bush, he hasnât really spelled out just what he means by this. Maybe someone here can.
#1
...the narrow administration view that Saddam Hussien was a primary orchestrator of the worldwide muslim terror offensive against the US and its allies. - Who said this ? Nobody.
What is the value in using Iraq as a terror magnet? - It's a bonus. We're there. If someone wants to take a shot at the U.S., try it where we have an Army. Don't confuse this with the justification for the war.
...he binds Iraqis to the Muslim resistance - No, he doesn't. He binds the Saddam loyalists to the Muslim terrorists. Muslim resistance against what exactly? The "American Imperialism" that led the U.S. to conquer Germany and Japan and Kuwait and rob them of their oil ?
#2
For someone who can type as much shit as you do and sound, at least, superficially coherent - you are either one terminally dense or willfully obtuse induhvidual. Your statements deserve no direct response as people here and damned near everywhere have been posting on and commenting upon this for 6 or 7 weeks, at least. Sigh. Either educate thyself or move along. This is but a troll post. Stop opinionizing under cover of posting and Google: Iraq +flypaper - argue with den Beste and the rest who've posted specific articles regards this topic.
#3
This is the new argument; that we will fight terrorism on the battlefield of our choosing.
This is not a new argument. I've been hearing it for almost two years. Sorry you chose to ignore the debate.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 10:23 Comments ||
Top||
#4
So, you're not impressed by the new administration line "we will take the battle to the terrorists so we donât have to fight them on our shores". We will hear this repeated countless times in the comming weeks by the admin hacks. What does it mean, other than another weak justification for continued occupation in Iraq?
Your statements deserve no direct response as people here and damned near everywhere have been posting on and commenting upon this for 6 or 7 weeks, at least.
I read most of the posts and responses on this page and I am bewildered by the charge of editorializing. There are countless off the point comments and oblique posts. I suspect that your main objection is with my point of view. If not I expect to see your critisism attached to any and all posts regarding Iraq.
I've noticed some posts without comment. If you don't like my query, then move on. Don't try to play like some paternal blog-matron. Just make your argument (If you have one).
#6
--both regimes still exist and are possibly strengthening.--
Who's doing the strengthening? That's the question.
Still costs them money to put them into Afghanistan and Iraq, among other places.
And they chose the battlefield. We just moved it for the time being.
--"we will take the battle to the terrorists so we donât have to fight them on our shores". We will hear this repeated countless times in the comming weeks by the admin hacks. What does it mean, other than another weak justification for continued occupation in Iraq?--
Haven't you been paying attention the past say, 10 years?
#7
At least try to keep the in-post commentary confined to the traditional snarky one-liners.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
08/27/2003 10:43 Comments ||
Top||
#8
The advantage to the magnet effect in Iraq and Afghanistan: Imagine rabid dogs running around your city biting people randomly. Would it be better to let them roam and attack, or find a way to get them to all come to one place where the cops and dog catchers can waiting for them and deal with them? Certainly more cops and dog catchers are likely to be injured in the ensuing capture but less civilians will be biten as well.
This is so obvious I can't believe it is even questioned.
#9
Come to think of it, the idea of fighting a war on territory of our own chosing isn't even a political argument. It should be a given; we're in a war we have to fight -- we should fight it at a time and place we decide.
Isn't that called taking the initiative?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 10:50 Comments ||
Top||
#10
Here's a take from someone who has been there and done that:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95756,00.html
Unsurprisingly, he disagrees with Woody.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 10:54 Comments ||
Top||
#11
At least try to keep the in-post commentary confined to the traditional snarky one-liners.
Snarky:
"You may charge me with murder--or want of sense--
(We are all of us weak at times):
But the slightest approach to a false pretense
Was never among my crimes! Lewis Carroll- The Hunting of the Snark
#12
The JUSTIFICATION for going into Iraq related to terrorists was that
a) Saddam was developing WMD,
b) had contacts with Terrorists,
c) Would pass WMD to Terrorists for use against the Infidels (read: US)
The UN inspectors had evidence of WMD and WMD programs, and we have found evidence of WMD programs. What was expected of us? To wait until the WMD programs bore fruit, wait until they were used to have our "smoking gun", and then have the liberal whiners complain about "Why didn't we act earlier?" It's not that they can't be pleased. It's that they DON'T WANT to be pleased.
So we invade, and find that the place is crawling with terrorists. We haven't potted Saddam yet and hung his body out on display, so even more terrorists are flooding in, hoping to chase us out and bring back their sugar daddy so that the cash can flow again, or cash in that guaranteed ticket to the Paradise Allah promised to all Jihadis.
And we're supposed to be surprised at this? Sh*t, the only thing that surprises me is that the turbanned ones are stupid/crazy enough to charge in where even demons fear to tread...
#13
Here's a take from someone who has been there and done that: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95756,00.html
Man, I hear that soldier loud and clear. I hope he's right about the 'endgame'. I just don't see it happening with our invasion there.
As I wrote, the occupation does what Hussien could not; it binds Iraqis to the Muslim extremists, or anyone else who would threaten the American occupiers. That is the recipe for a perpetual conflict. There will always be an endless line of Muslim extremists there to take pot shots at our troops. The steady loss of American lives makes 'progress' against terrorism hard to quantify. Internationalizing the force may lessen the impact on Americans there. The argument that we will exhaust the supply of regional extremists by drawing them into Iraq is dubious. More likely we fomenting more regional animosity by our uni-multi-ilateral presence there which I believe provides the environment for the recruitment of more young terrorists.
#14
I think Tom Friedman of all people, has it right.
We went into Iraq not to kill gators,or even to fight the people who might give guns to gators, but to drain the swamp. IE to establish a democracy, that will transform the dysfunctional regional political culture which spawns extremist fundamentalism, failed and rogue states, and terrorist groups and the philosophies that justify them, etc. The gators are not stupid - they see what we're doing and want to stop it. IE al qaeeda is going after us in Iraq not because we are particularly vulnerable there, nor because they are dumb jihadis who attack kufrs wherever they can, but precisely BECAUSE they understand our grand strategy, and are determined to stop it. That they are attacking us, and in particular attacking entities that would advance reconstruction, like the UN, is solid evidence that we are on the right path.
That we can kill them expeditiously there is a side benefit.
#15
FW - it binds Iraqis to the Muslim extremists, or anyone else who would threaten the American occupiers.
LH - how does blowing up the UN do this? even Iraqis who dont much like Americans seem to like the UN. all evidence is that the Iraqis are profoundly alienated from the terrorists.
FW - That is the recipe for a perpetual conflict. There will always be an endless line of Muslim extremists there to take pot shots at our troops.
LH- your assumption is that this is Iraqi muslim extremists. Not clear yet, though many claim muslim fundie activity in Iraq is essentially the work of foreigners, not Iraqis. There is certainly no endless supply of salafist extremists in Iraq - Iraq is 60% shiite, and much of the sunni population is secular.
FW The steady loss of American lives makes 'progress' against terrorism hard to quantify. Internationalizing the force may lessen the impact on Americans there.
LH- which i would support depending on the tradeoffs and the cost.
FW - The argument that we will exhaust the supply of regional extremists by drawing them into Iraq is dubious. More likely we fomenting more regional animosity by our uni-multi-ilateral presence there which I believe provides the environment for the recruitment of more young terrorists.
LH - that gets back to the question - are terrorists created as a reaction to excessive US presence and force, or to deeper civilizational problems in the muslim world. Of course theres also the possibility that we will reduce even the directly political problems that lead to terrorism - by departing from Saudi, by gaining additional leverage over the Palestinian problem etc.
What has been the reaction of the 'arab street" so far to the occupation in Iraq? remarkably quiet. Given that, i suspect that most of the jihadis going after us in Iraq are old jihadis, not new recruits due to the Iraqi conflict.
#16
saddam or no Saddam, this is unfair to the Iraqis. Me fighting my enemies on your soil ? YES THIS IS A CONVINIENCE FOR MY WIFE AND KIDS IN AMERICA BUT WHAT ABOUT IRAQIS GETTING CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE WHEN WE FIGHT RADICALISED SAUDIS WHO ARE GOING TO IRAQ NOW THAT IT IS OCCUPIED. HOW WOULD YOU FEEEL IF I LEFT MY HOUSE AND DUELED MY ENEMY IN YOUR LIVING ROOM LEAVING MY HOUSE SAFE. SELFISHNESS IS A BAD THING.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 12:15 Comments ||
Top||
#18
fullwood
What is truly tragic is how many administrations repeatedly glossed over the brewing tempest Mr. Bush is now dealing with. Why not criticize the lazy morons who, for example, in the 70s laughed off the church bombings in Indonesia and the infiltration of radical elements into Aceh? Certainly it would have made a lot more sense to deal with these problems before the roots grew so deep.
You may not like what is happening with current National Security/Foreign Policy -- hopefully, you have some constructive ideas, not just partisan whining. That is what is great about this country, and such a threat to Islamic radicalism -- our diversity, in unity, makes us strong.
So, what is your constructive proposal for ending the terrorist threat in this day and age?
#19
As the coalition efforts become more successful, violence will increase. Peace-keepers didn't become targets in Somalia until the warlords realized that a working government meant less power for some of them.
As for Sadaam's role in world terror, he was not the director of any of the films, but he played studio while OBL operated as the producer.
Hope GW remebers the Afhgan people when he is no longer president. His ability to fund raise is impressive. He could help that country enormously as a benefactor.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 12:35 Comments ||
Top||
#20
steve, it is unfair to many of the Iraqis' that is why many are helping the United States. Sort of a payback for our liberating them from Saddam's sick regime. The rest can rot because they are either siding with the psychos or trying to put Saddam back in power.
It allows many other nations to avoid being a battlefield, so the overall effect is far over into the positive side on the Karmic fairness meter.
#21
I need a little more information on WHY AMERICA CANNOT DO THIS ALONE (that is if alone means America, Australia, and England, basically the same countries that won WWII). Before I make predictions of the future, I usually research historically similiar situations. It appears that the detractors (the same people who were against the war in the first place) like to look at Vietnam. Vietnam was not a occupation, it was a Democrat attempt to defend a country against a communist aggressor. It took 10+ years and it failed proving once again the best defense is a good offence. We should have taken the fight to North Vietnam and eliminated the threat!
I would prefer to look at Germany after WWII. Germany and Iraq were both police states and in Germany SS guerrilla fighters kept causing us trouble up through 1947 "THE LAST NAZIS, SS WAREWOLF GUERRILLA RESISTANCE IN EUROPE 1944-1947". The daily casualty rate was similiar and the tactics where similiar. The resistance died down after a year or two once it became clear WE WERE NOT GOING TO LEAVE and the germans themselves started fighting the Nazis
The Leauge of Nations after WWI was the most prominent "Internationalization" failure in history. You have too many CHIEFS in the room and the compromises you have to make weaken the whole operation. The Creation of Nato which was for most of it's infancy almost completly under U.S. control was a success (again, the French hated being under U.S. control and they backed out and stared supplying all our enemies with advance weapons and nuclear technology).
Our Grandparents that fought both the Nazis and the Japaneese while at the same time suppling most of the arms to Russia (all during the Great Depression) must be turning in their graves now hearing how AMERICA CANNOT DO THIS ALONE AND NEEDS HELP. I do not believe that Americans are Cowards and a few casualties will not make us turn tail and run (well maybe the Democrats will). If we have lost the will to fight then we are done as a country and our Grandparent's sacrafice during WWII was all in vain!
Posted by: Patrick ||
08/27/2003 12:45 Comments ||
Top||
#22
no it is unfair. Only a handful of money hungry spies are helping America. In some sunni village some father killed his own son after he was discovered to be a spy. American troops in Iraq are not bait. I talked to some distressed father in seattle who told me that his son is being used as bait to attract resistance in tikrit...he is told to drive down a dark Ambush alley to attract fire. America should be able to seal the border in Iraq. If Saddam was able to seal that border so should we...we took it upon ourselves to come from 6000 miles away to invade a sovereign state and now we cant turn on th lights or guard the pipeline. Saddam had more enemies in Iraq than America and he was able to guard the pipeline so should we...we have failed. The pentagon has yes to invent pipe fixer bombs.
#23
So, what is your constructive proposal for ending the terrorist threat in this day and age?
The war in Afghanistan should be the center of our fight against terrorism. War in Afghanistan Afganistan provides the US with the opportunity to not only crush the regime that supported the attack on our country, but to galvanize the broad coalition that was united before the Iraq invasion, against terrorism. It looks like we let the world of of the hook there as they turned their backs on our immediate quarry as they focused their opposition on our foray into Iraq.
Reignite the coalition by declaring a new campaign that spreads out from Kabul to Pakistan and forces Musharef to account for the terrorists who take refuge there.
But, we are bogged down in Iraq. What to do?
Gonna take more troops, not less, even to stand-down there. Withdrawal is not going to come anytime soon.
#24
The war in Afghanistan should be the center of our fight against terrorism.
Except Afghanistan is no where near the real center of Islamic terrorism. Look at a map -- which is closer to the heart of the problem -- Iraq or Afghanistan?
Reignite the coalition by declaring a new campaign that spreads out from Kabul to Pakistan and forces Musharef to account for the terrorists who take refuge there.
Wasn't Musharef an important part of the coalition you want to "reignite"? I'm no fan of his, but I at least have the brains to realize how hard it could be to supply/support troops in Afghanistan without Pakistan's cooperation.
But, we are bogged down in Iraq.
Says who?
Gonna take more troops, not less, even to stand-down there.
Says who?
Withdrawal is not going to come anytime soon.
Well, no shit. We were in Germany for over fifty years. The goal is victory, not withdrawal.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/27/2003 14:12 Comments ||
Top||
#25
You say, "Most observers predict another devastating attack in the US is inevitable if not imminent." Well? They've been saying that since Sept 12th, they said that after Afghanistan and they said that before the Gulf War2. I don't know about you but I haven't seen any of these iminent major terror attacks. And until we do, it would seem logical to conclude that the strategery is working.
people who call Iraq a hellhole should realize that, as far as the potential for democratic development of the population, pakistan makes Iraq look like, well the garden of eden. With 150,000 troops give or take 50,000, we can join with the people of Iraq and build a better society - which can lead to a better position across the region, including Pakistan.
Go into Pakland instead, and it will take 500,000 or more troops, fighting not just AQ but most of the population in NWFP and Baluchistan, and about half the pop in the rest of the country. Make Tikrit look like a picnic. Of course you could go in with the Indians to provide troops. Not many better ways to convince the muslim world that this is a battle of civilizations.
#27
I get the feeling Fullwood is alone on this issue.
This makes me enormously happy. I've heard all of fullwoods comments dozens of times already from opponents of GWB. While the supporter who points out the history and benifits seem to be drowned out. Say something I don't already know about, Fullwood. That might change my mind, IF it's a good point.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/27/2003 14:25 Comments ||
Top||
#28
Fullwood
Are you aware that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world?
Should we just focus on Afghanistan and ignore the dedicated, persistent action of Islamic radicals in South-east Asia? Do you think the Islamic radicals are ignorant of the petroleum reserves in Indonesia and the Middle East that could be leveraged to cause economic problems for the West? What kind of resources exist in Afghanistan that make that country so vital to U.S. interests? Wasnât the value to the radicals that Afghanistan was so impoverished and out of the way that they pretty much could develop their organization without interference?
Just a few of many questions I think you are overlooking in your rush to judgment.
#29
In the last half of 20th cent.,if you had a terrorist group,you would find they were supported by a commmunist gov't.-Russia,Cuba,etc.It appears that in first half of 21rst cent.,if you have a terrorist group,its members are followers of Islam.(I define a terrorist group as one that deliberately targets civilians and civilian infrastructure as way of achieving goals.)If a spaceship came and took every single American and follower of Judaism off the planet forever,do you think Islamic groups would stop fighting in Russia,in Algeria,in the Phillipines,in Malaysia,in Kashmir,in India,in Subsaharan Africa,and stop oppressing the people of Iran?
We are in for another "cold war",only this time it is in opposition to a country,but to a belief system that is completely opposed to both US and Western belief systems.During the old cold war there were those who made excuses for Soviet Union and its brethren.During this new "Green War",the excuse-makers for Islamic terrorists should ask themselves:will the terrorists stop if Israel disappeared,if US vanished?If yes,why are you supporting genocide?If no,then US,Israel aren't the problem.
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/27/2003 14:33 Comments ||
Top||
#30
Okay...let me get this straight..."we need international support"...America cant do it alone"...correct me if Im wrong but doesnt over a dozen countries providing troops to our efforts negate the alone part? Maybe you mean French and German troops are needed in order to be succesfull. Clarification here: There is no way in HADES that France would deploy troops to Iraq. Their huge muslim population would make it suicidal to do so. The very lucrative contracts with Syria and Jordan would make it unlikelly. Maybe you mean money for reconstruction? Well, the french are so strapped for cash they are considering eliminating one of their many holidays in order to collect additional tax revenues. So the posibility of the french contributing any cash is nill. Oh you mean putting the french in charge of collecting oil revenues!!! Im sure they would be happy to contribute in spending Iraqi oil profits (under the guise of the UNs oil for palace program of course)
#31
im in the middle on the will it take more troops debate.
One side says - Shinseki was right, we needed at least 300,000 to 400,000 troops, its all falling apart, lets beg the UN for whatever help we can get.
The other side says basically - we dont need no stinking allies (or to be more precise, since we have the UK and the other coalition of the willing states - we dont need any more stinking allies than we have already) 140,000 americans, plus 20,000 allies, plus about 60,000 Iraqis, plus another 40,000 or so iraqis we'll have trained in a year is more than enough.
well its not true that Iraq is collapsing. On any of a variety of metrics things are either deteriorating very slowly, staying about the same, or improving steadily. And yes, more trained Iraqis will help. And yes, better intel (and more funds for reconstruction) would help more than more troops.
OTOH - we probably could do some useful things with more troops - like patrol the borders better. and we need more troops to maintain the current level of coalition of forces - somebody needs to replace the 101st AB, and it doesnt look like we will have enough trained iraqis to do that in time. And it would be wise to plan for contingencies. Things may be stable or slowly improving now - to simply assume that they wont get worse in the future is foolish.
So should we go hat in hand begging to the UN - no - should we be taking REASONABLE steps to get more international support - absolutely. Maybe we can get Turkish help without a UNSC res. That takes care of the 101st AB problem, and would allow us, just barely, to avoid the UN. (although double overseas shifts for combat units is a real PROBLEM) If we can get a UNSC res that will get us a larger group of troops, and the price is reconstruction contracts to the French, and oil contracts to the Russians, that will be worth it.
#32
should we be taking REASONABLE steps to get more international support
Damn these Europeans are excellent chess players. If the US does finally allow EUropean involvement in Iraq, the EUropeans will have managed to recover some of their lost business, while taking very minimum risk (no major combat). I'll be somewhat surprised, but absolutely elated, if the US can pull this off on their own. As it stands now, it's a 50-50 proposition.
#34
I'm sitting here in the heart of a 'military' town, Colorado Springs. We have Fort Carson (parts of the 4th ID, 10th Special Forces, a few extra support units), Peterson Air Force Base (US Space Command, USAF Space Command, NORAD, Northern Command), Shriver AFB (2nd Space Wing), Cheyenne Mountain (NORAD), and the Air Force Academy. There are also about 65,000 retirees within a 40-mile radius, and offices of dozens of major defense contractors. You hear a lot of military scuttlebutt around here.
Most everyone agrees: the drawdown at the end of the "cold war" was too deep, too fast, and not matched by a reduction in commitments. In fact, if anything, the number of commitments increased steadily through the 1990's, and now stand higher than ever before in our history. At the same time, we have fewer troops on active duty than at any time since the Korean War ended in a stalemate.
We're spread very, very thin all over. We have three choices: either end some of the less critical missions, call up even MORE guard and reserve units (they're pretty thin, too, with all the ones called up already), or get some outside help from other countries until we can rebuild our armed forces to match our commitments.
Luckily, more and more nations are finally waking up to the fact that Islamofascists don't care who they target, even other islamofascists, as long as it advances their goal of world domination. They're beginning to recognize that this is a war, and that the battlefield is anywhere and everywhere in the world. There are active battlefields in the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Chechnia, China, Iraq, Israel, Sudan, Uganda, Mali, Algeria, Nigeria, throughout Europe (although most of that warfare is economic, rather than military), and anywhere else these jihadinuts can operate with any hope of success.
There are still nations that refuse to acknowledge this - they know it, and know they're targeted, but can't seem to get the courage to stand up against this determined enemy. We can only hope that, as more nations realize what they have to lose if they don't fight now (and the very real potential of losing), they will work with us in this battle, and that means deploying troops where they're needed, freezing funds of terrorist organizations, and in general help us stamp out this growing menace.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/27/2003 23:29 Comments ||
Top||
#35
I've heard it said that the US drew the Soviets into Afghanistan or at least kept them busy by fueling the opposition there with the intention of bogging them down and bankrupting the already faltering empire which was involved in conflicts in the neighboring independent states as well.
Our position in Iraq reminds me of that. Over-committed militarily as we may well be, and economically unstable as we are, it's not hard to imagine a scenario where we prioritized our troops out of Iraq in a hurry to better organize our forces to satisfy a more urgent set of inituitives elsewhere.
I wish that the admin. was as straight as Old Patriot. Still time for them though...
An electrical failure in a plastics factory in Gaza City set off an explosion Wednesday, and an engineer lost his hands, police said. Had the "plastic" in his hands when it went off, huh? Seems to happen to a lot of "engineers" in Gaza.
Residents of Gaza City have been jittery in the past week, after Israeli helicopters launched three missile attacks that killed seven Hamas activists and a bystander. Ya think?
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 9:32:36 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
cripes - another hookboy. gonna move to london too?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 9:42 Comments ||
Top||
#2
It's the red wire, dammit! It's always the red wire.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 13:44 Comments ||
Top||
#4
These factories for explosives are an abomination. Abbass's cabinet minister that is equivalent to our OSHA should step down immediately and Arafat should name a replacement. There needs to be an independent investigation.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 13:59 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Super Hose [jeeze, what a handle...]---I wonder if the Paleos are up to that level of evolution yet where they have a worker safety program like OSHA, much less a position for same in their government (I use the term very loosely). Minister of Plastique?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 15:06 Comments ||
Top||
#6
Mutual of Gaza City: The Good Hands Hooks People.
#7
I won't complain as long as these boomers only kill themselves and their friends. Each time one of them does something like this, it removes one more cockroach from the slum of Gaza.
Maybe we could also make the paleos a very good deal on purple wire. Then it won't matter which one gets connected first... 8^)
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/28/2003 0:05 Comments ||
Top||
Shaky relations between Uganda and Sudan could be further strained by new accusations that Khartoum is supplying arms to rebels of the Lords Resistance Army (LRA). The Ugandan Government also claims that LRA leader Joseph Kony has finally crossed back into southern Sudan via the northern Ugandan town of Gulu to acquire more supplies. But the Sudanese Government denies the charges, saying that only two weeks ago it presented a comprehensive report to Ugandaâs President Yoweri Museveni, showing Sudan was not providing weapons to the LRA rebels. "These are lies, the LRA is an enemy of Sudan," Sudanâs Ambassador to Uganda, Sirajjudin Hamid Yusuf told the BBC. "Lies(tm), all lies(tm).
The latest round of accusations follows reports that the Ugandan army received information from an LRA defector, David Oneka, about the alleged supply of arms, including anti-tank missiles, by Sudan to the rebels. Mr Oneka also claimed that he witnessed Mr Kony crossing into Sudan accompanied by his wives and 600 rebel fighters. But the Sudanese ambassador to Uganda doubts the credibility of the reports. "These reports are suspicious, the defector is only out to cause problems and ruin the protocol between Sudan and Uganda," said Mr Yusuf. The Sudanese envoy, however, admitted that rogue Sudanese military officers could be supplying the LRA rebels with food and weapons. "One officer was disciplined after he was arrested supplying food to women and children at an LRA camp," said Mr Yusuf. "He was only supposed to give them guns."
Observers say this latest diplomatic tension will be seen as a major blow to the military protocol between the two countries, which allows Ugandan troops to pursue LRA rebels across the border into southern Sudan. The protocol is renewed every few months, but this time Uganda looks reluctant to renew it.
The Uganda army spokesman, Major Shaban Bantariza, said it might be "pointless" to renew the protocol. "We canât catch them in either country, so why bother."
Uganda broke off diplomatic ties with Sudan in 1995 after accusing Sudan of supporting the LRA. Relations were restored after Sudan allowed Ugandan troops to enter the south in pursuit of the LRA. The Ugandan army has been fighting the LRA in northern Uganda since 1988, since when hundreds of thousands of people have been either displaced, maimed or killed. Even by African standards, the LRA are real nutcases.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 8:59:12 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Lies, Lies
These countries need to spice up their rhetoric to keep me interested. They should shoot a few bucks in the direction of Don King. As a consultant he could lay down a heavy load of trickerations and prevarications for his clients. Much better copy.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 12:42 Comments ||
Top||
A top official in a southern Russia region near rebel Chechnya has been killed by a car bomb, according to police. A police spokeswoman said Magomedsalikh Gusayev, regional Minister for National Policy, Information and External Relations in Dagestan, which borders Chechnya, died immediately in the blast. Interfax news agency said the explosion occurred in the morning as Gusayev's car drove away from his home in Makhachkala, the regional capital. Gusayev's driver survived and was being questioned by police, it said.
Adding injury to insult...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/27/2003 08:53 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Police, "what do you know about this bomb"
Driver, "It was real loud, like in the movies, everything moved in slow motion, I saw my life flash accross my eyes. Man I don't ever want to do that again".
Police, "Your free to go for now, but don't leave town and we'll be checking out what you told us.
#2
I can't see that Pappa Joe would have had many problems with the populus of Chechnya. Usually there was a canal to be dug or some salt to be mined. If not he was a master at the old-fashioned version of ethnic cleansing.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 12:48 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Just one more reason Russia sells it's military equitment. They're running out of people to oversee it.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/27/2003 14:38 Comments ||
Top||
The Speed Campaign Youth Shock Brigade is greeting the Youth Day, August 28, with tremendous achievements in major projects. It has completed in the main the reconstruction on a modern basis of the Tudan Duck Farm, which covers an area of over 907,000 square meters. It is now giving a finishing touch to the interior project of the farm. Real baby ducks... Wabbits and Giant Gerbils coming soon...
The shock brigade undertakes difficult and laborious projects for the socialist economic construction. Yep. The "economy" doesnât exist and never will until Dear Leader is bumped off as it is under contruction. Constantly. Forever.
Leader Kim Jong Il organized the shock brigade in May Juche 64 (1975) and named it "Speed Campaign Youth Shock Brigade." Catchy... just trips off the tongue.
Under his wise guidance, it has performed brilliant feats in the socialist construction by giving full play to the revolutionary spirit of self-reliance and hard work to live up to his expectation. They even gave up tree bark soup (yummm!) and ate dirt during the speed campaign for the Baby Ducks Farm project. Thatâs the spirit!
It built ten-odd revolutionary battle sites and revolutionary sites including Wangjaesan, Samjiyon, Oun and Hoeryong. Yes. Ten odd. There were no battles there, but that just shows how revolutionary the Dear Leader is!
It also erected tens of monumental edifices including the International Friendship Exhibition, the Mangyongdae Schoolchildrenâs Palace, the Grand Peopleâs Study House, Pyongyang Department Store No. 1, the Youth Hotel and the Changgwang Health Complex. It constructed over 2,000 kilometer-long railroads including the Manpho-Hyesan Youth Line and Kumgangsan Youth Line, and the Youth Hero Motorway, carried out railway electrification projects and erected 49 major industrial establishments including the East Pyongyang Thermal Power Complex. They were augmented by hundreds of unemployed Hollywood PR types to think up the catchy names, too.
Dwelling houses of the Changgwang, Munsu, Kwangbok, Thongil and other streets were associated with the labor feats of the young builders. Street housing, once again, weâre talking revolutionary.
It has produced some 20 labour heroes, over 120 winners of Kim Il Sung Youth Honour Prize and 39,260-odd state commendation and order recipients. Yes, we have many, many medals. No food, you understand, but medals? Hey - we got shitloads of âem. The latest revolutionary idea from the Dear Leader is to make the medals edible.
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 4:55:13 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Damn! Speed Youth Shock Brigade, thats even better than a Hero of Labor. These kids sound like they got ahold of some good chrystal juche.
#2
And after working at the Pyongyang "Thermal Complex", the Norks can save on electricity because the "speed youth brigade" now GLOWS IN THE DARK.
It is a travesty that the world media doesn't do more to paste this regime. There are thousands and thousands of people in PRNK that die of starvation every month. We can joke about bark soup and eating dirt and chalk but the fact is that these people are starving and the world media seems to turn a blind eye to the atrocities of this and other communist/marxist/stalinist regimes.
#3
SOG475 - You're absolutely right. And, in addition, they've never known anything but what these insane "Leaders" have told them. When they are finally freed, it will be like a prisoner from a dungeon who's never even heard of, much less seen, the sun.
#6
How much work does it take to build a duck farm? And where are they going to get ducks? Anyone who has visited the DPRK lately has commented on the lack of birds (like none). Sounds like busy work to keep the minds off the fact that they are STARVING TO DEATH!
#7
In a theoretical sence, you could generate a nominal amount of electrical power if these Korean Cub Scouts manned giant gerbil excercise wheels. As an alternate renuable fuel, many states would provide a tax break as an incentive.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 13:55 Comments ||
Top||
#8
*holds up card* 7.6. I concur with Crescend in all judging points. The mention of Juche is incidental, but enlightening.
The Duck Farm is finished. No mention, however, on whether there are any ducks left to populate it...
#9
*holds up card* 7.0
Glamorisation of forced child labor...good. "Monumental edifices", "revolutionary spirit", "labour heroes" and a mandatory "Juche"...nice. However, a bad faux-pas by referring to the Dear Leader as only a vanilla plain ole "leader" cost heavily...writer to be shot in the morning for lesse majeste.
U.N. Agencyâs Data Point To Pakistan as the Source
By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 EFL
Iran has admitted for the first time that it received substantial foreign help in building a secret nuclear facility south of Tehran that is now beginning to enrich uranium, turning it into a key ingredient in the manufacture of nuclear weapons, according to U.N. documents and diplomatic sources. Aw, and we all thought you were getting Divine Intervention & Assistance directly from Allah hisownself. Guess he doesnât like you enough, huh?
While Iran has not yet identified the source of the foreign help, evidence collected in Iran by the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency implicates Pakistani companies as suppliers of critical technology and parts, officials familiar with a U.N. investigation of Iranâs program said yesterday. Pakistan is believed by many proliferation experts to have passed important nuclear secrets to both Iran and North Korea. Pakistan has denied providing such assistance. "watchdog" - Oooooh. Like that? Sounds really tough and menacing. Then you get a glimpse of El Barradai mincing and quibbling in front of the UNSC and realize just how easy it was for the Black Hats to go shopping while under the intense scrutiny of the watchdogs of the IAEA. Can you say "NorK"?
The latest disclosure about Iran came as the U.N. group, the International Atomic Energy Agency, reported that Iran had only partially complied with demands to open its nuclear program to scrutiny. The IAEA, in a confidential report, said Iran had not fully accounted for activities that have spurred fears that it was secretly developing nuclear weapons. And you can bet that even the confidential report was a watered-down lackluster effort...
"Iran has demonstrated an increased degree of cooperation," said the report, portions of which were provided to The Washington Post. "However . . . there remain a number of important outstanding issues, particularly with regard to Iranâs enrichment program, that require urgent resolution." Toss out a bone. Reel it back in. Justify your existence. Enhance your importance. Yep, thatâs a UN report, all right.
The report also noted that Iran had apparently attempted to sanitize one of its nuclear facilities, known as the Kalaye Electric Co., before granting IAEA inspectors access to the site this summer. "Considerable modifications were observed," the IAEA said of the Kalaye site, which had been identified by an Iranian opposition group as a pilot enrichment facility. IAEA officials were barred from the site during earlier visits. Say it ainât so! Our friends the Black Hats? No!
Over the past 18 months, Iran has begun work on major facilities for processing and enriching uranium, while simultaneously building a separate reactor that can be used in the production of plutonium. The Bush administration contends the facilities are part of an accelerated campaign to build nuclear weapons. Iranâs disclosures about its nuclear suppliers were part of an apparent attempt to allay rising international concerns about its nuclear intentions. This just canât be true. The Black Hats are Holy Men. They would never seek weapons. Allah is their sword and their Faith is their shield.
Iranâs claim of a purely peaceful nuclear program suffered a blow last month when IAEA inspectors discovered traces of highly enriched uranium at a newly constructed facility in Natanz, 200 miles south of Tehran. Iran had denied making enriched uranium at Natanz or any other facility prior to June of this year. "Suffered a blow..." Heh. This guyâs good. And after June? All bets are off, I guess...
In a new attempt to explain the discrepancy, Iran has told U.N. nuclear officials that the uranium came into the country on contaminated equipment purchased from another country -- specifically, on metal machine parts used in gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium. "Um, yeah, thatâs it! We know we said we built it ourselves, but that was last week. This week we must tell you that we bought the centrifuges - and the scoundrels sold us used equiment! We demand a UN investigation of them, but we wonât tell you who they are, of course. We have more shopping to do. This informations will be publicly made after itâs too late at an appropriate time, Inshâallah."
"In the past, Iran had claimed that the technology was indigenous, and they were quite proud of that," said one European diplomatic official familiar with the IAEAâs findings. "Now theyâre saying they did get a lot of help. This was a major change in the story." Um, yeah, we made it! Well, um, no we didnât. But we coulda if we had wanted to...
The equipment said to be tainted was from a type of centrifuge acquired by Pakistani scientists in the 1970s and used in Pakistanâs domestic nuclear program, two officials familiar with the findings said. Once again, the word is "acquired" - not invented. The Science of Allah⢠can read a cookbook, but isnât worth warm spit when it comes to writing one.
There be more...
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 2:02:02 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#3
The NORKS, PAKS, and Iranians have been in the nuclear bed together for years. Exposing them to the light of day may help some, but unless something serious is done, Iran will have nuclear fissile material in quantity to sell or give away and then it will get really ugly. I hope that we have a plan, 'cause time is running out.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/27/2003 13:24 Comments ||
Top||
Posted by: .com ||
08/27/2003 1:31:25 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
So, let's see...attack a U.N. worker and the U.N. sez, "War crime! Crime against humanity! How dare you!"...but if a dictator were to feed someone into a plastic shredder, the U.N. sez, "Well, harummph, we don't want to, uh, that is to say, we can't tell a soverign nation what to do, er, we mean, uh, uh, who are we to judge?"
Posted by: Uncle Joe ||
08/27/2003 1:49 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Guess it's ok to commit genocide, but touch a UN employee... and you're toast.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 10:18 Comments ||
Top||
#9
To allay further Steve conversion, I as Steve D will adopt the nick-name I earned hosing pavement on summer 3rd shifts hosing pavement for Sea World of Ohio as a High School student.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 10:24 Comments ||
Top||
#10
Oh GEEEEZ, what a killer nick! It's a two-edged sword, however... Sorry, couldn't help myself. ;->
Welcome to RantBurg, Mr SuperHose! Geez that's hard to type when you're laughing your ass off!
#11
God, I'm glad I'm not a Steve! That may be the next thing the UN wants to make a "war crime". Pretty soon, the UN is going to make defending yourself a war crime. The UN needs to either grow up, or move on. I prefer moving on.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/27/2003 10:48 Comments ||
Top||
#12
"Conspiracy of Steve"
"Nest of Steves"
"den of Steves"
I prefer the "Grand Army of Steve" myself.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/27/2003 11:04 Comments ||
Top||
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 12:57 Comments ||
Top||
#17
At the risk of being branded as just another Steve, I think we should take a moment from giving the UN the kicks they so richly deserve, and recognise that this is one of the saner - or at least less stupid - things they have done lately. Now if they would only extend this prohibition to the act of blowing up buses and restaurants full of women and children...
#18
I don't know that the UN has accomplished anything with this resolution, but I may be a skeptic. Enacting a "Hate Crime" as a new way to charge someone guilty of a brutal murder is an semantic edifice. Brutal murder is already punishable under existing statute. If a bully assaults an NGO worker in Singapore, you should cane the doo doo out of the bully. Extraditing him to stand before a tribunal in Belgium is counterproductive as there is no caning in Belgium.
Most certainly, don't slide the ICC into that type of resolution so that you can extradite Colin Powell to Belgium for not preventing the bullying incident.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/27/2003 15:20 Comments ||
Top||
#19
So now all we have to do is sign every one in Israel up to be UN or NGO workers and watch the fun begin!
Posted by: Chris Smith ||
08/27/2003 16:25 Comments ||
Top||
#20
nice shot Chris. I like it, but the UN (like the Int'l Red Cross) has separate standards for Jooooos
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/27/2003 20:36 Comments ||
Top||
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
