Hi there, !
Today Fri 11/21/2003 Thu 11/20/2003 Wed 11/19/2003 Tue 11/18/2003 Mon 11/17/2003 Sun 11/16/2003 Sat 11/15/2003 Archives
Rantburg
531691 articles and 1855967 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 61 articles and 412 comments as of 12:13.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area:                    
Istanbul bombing mastermind fled to Syria
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 1: WoT Operations
2 00:00 TPF [] 
6 00:00 ISLAM SUCKS [] 
3 00:00 Lucky [1] 
3 00:00 Damn_Proud_American [] 
7 00:00 Anonymous [] 
3 00:00 Frank G [] 
3 00:00 Bomb-a-rama [] 
10 00:00 Frank G [] 
10 00:00 Atomic Conspiracy [] 
6 00:00 Super Hose [] 
5 00:00 Super Hose [] 
5 00:00 Igs [] 
6 00:00 Lucky [] 
9 00:00 alzaebo [] 
14 00:00 Anonymous [] 
2 00:00 Shipman [] 
5 00:00 alzaebo [] 
22 00:00 Super Hose [] 
6 00:00 Super Hose [] 
29 00:00 jimmytheclaw [1] 
7 00:00 Super Hose [] 
3 00:00 joe [] 
2 00:00 Seafarious [] 
0 [] 
4 00:00 Vlad the Muslim Impaler [] 
3 00:00 Super Hose [] 
6 00:00 Super Hose [] 
4 00:00 Dan [] 
15 00:00 Shipman [] 
17 00:00 Super Hose [] 
8 00:00 Bulldog [] 
11 00:00 LeftEnd [] 
8 00:00 Super Hose [] 
12 00:00 alzaebo [] 
8 00:00 Super Hose [] 
6 00:00 Alaska Paul [] 
7 00:00 Frank G [] 
13 00:00 john [] 
5 00:00 Shipman [] 
7 00:00 Old Patriot [] 
17 00:00 VAMark [] 
2 00:00 Alaska Paul [] 
8 00:00 Anonymous [] 
0 [] 
10 00:00 Dan [] 
2 00:00 Frank G [] 
1 00:00 JFM [] 
1 00:00 SamIII [] 
1 00:00 Vlad the Muslim Impaler [] 
7 00:00 Old Patriot [] 
0 [] 
6 00:00 Shipman [] 
6 00:00 Steve White [] 
0 [] 
1 00:00 Vlad the Muslim Impaler [] 
4 00:00 Charles [] 
11 00:00 Bones [] 
2 00:00 Rhodesiafever [] 
19 00:00 alzaebo [] 
6 00:00 AT [] 
6 00:00 Fred [] 
-Short Attention Span Theater-
Police Search Michael Jackson’s California Ranch
I have to pass - its just too easy!
Police swarmed over pop superstar Michael Jackson’s opulent Neverland Ranch, near Santa Barbara in central California, on Tuesday as part of an unspecified criminal investigation, police said. A Santa Barbara Sheriff’s spokesman said sheriff’s deputies and officials from the District Attorney’s office went to the sprawling ranch at 8.30 a.m. PST to "serve a search warrant as part of an ongoing criminal investigation." The search was still going on two hours later.

Police did not specify the nature of the investigation, but cable channel Court TV said it stemmed from allegations of sexual abuse brought by a 12-year-old boy against the self-styled King of Pop. A spokesman for Jackson was not immediately available for comment and Jackson’s whereabouts were not immediately clear. The allegations come nine years after a 14-year-old reached an out-of-court agreement to settle a lawsuit accusing the singer of molesting him in 1992. No criminal charges were ever brought in that case.

Tuesday’s search warrant follows a tumultuous year for Jackson, whose talents as an entertainer have been eclipsed by his often bizarre behavior both before the cameras and away from them. In November last year, the former child-star stunned fans in Berlin by dangling his barefoot baby from a hotel window. Then in February, he revealed in a British television documentary that he shared his Neverland bedroom with young boys and made his children wear masks in public.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 11/18/2003 3:53:10 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Free Bubbles! Avenge the Elephant Man!

What more do we need to keep this sicko away from kids for good? Besides a crowbar, that is!
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 16:31 Comments || Top||

#2  Do the sheriffs have jurisdiction over plastic surgery-addicted pedophiles from outer space? Now we know where some of those 'abduction' stories come from.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 17:03 Comments || Top||

#3  I've heard of lips falling off.... What about the nose?
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:21 Comments || Top||

#4  "What about the nose?"


That must be what all those sheriffs are looking for. *rimshot*
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 17:32 Comments || Top||

#5  I assume they won't be using sight hounds to look for the nose.
Wait a minute.. only Beverly Hills PD got Aghans. Where is Wonderland?
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 18:25 Comments || Top||

#6  what about the nose?

apparently nobody here but me's seen Scarey Movie 3, huh?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:37 Comments || Top||

#7  I don't care how much money they will make out of shaking down Jacko. The parents of this kid ought to lose custody automatically. What kind of parent brings there kid to the Neverland Ranch to covort with Michael Jackson? The place is the giant honey pot of a guy who looks like a child molester.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:38 Comments || Top||

#8  I saw this on the news. I boggled in amazement when the newsreader used the phrase "pop-eyed con's ranch". After a second, I realized he said "pop icon's ranch".

Maybe the police are searching for the little black kid that Michael used to be before he became a space alien?
Posted by: SteveS || 11/18/2003 20:45 Comments || Top||

#9  I wonder if he'll pull a Roman Polanski...
Posted by: PBMcL || 11/18/2003 23:11 Comments || Top||

#10  If I were dictator, I would have MJ and Kim Jong Il sharing the same cage in my Imperial Traveling Freak Show and History Revue, with Noam Chomsky as the chief barker and Oliver Stone running the slide projector.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 11/19/2003 0:23 Comments || Top||


Teen dies on school bus after head hits tree
Hat tip to Drudge. I guess. Why do we read this stuff?
A Perry Meridian High School freshman died Monday morning after he leaned his head out the window of a moving school bus and struck a tree.
Was that Darwin who snickered? Stop it, dammit! 'Tain't funny!
The accident occurred on Stop 11 Road west of Bluff Road, about a mile north of the Johnson-Marion county line. Raul Gonzalez, 16, died quickly after he struck his head on the tree trunk, said Marion County Sheriff’s Department Lt. Phil Burton. The bus was moving at about 30 or 35 mph when the impact occurred. About 7:15 a.m., Gonzalez’s bus was headed eastbound on Stop 11 Road when the bus passed a tree standing a foot or more from the road, Burton said. it wasn’t clear why Gonzalez had stuck his head out the bus window.
"Hey, y'all! Watch what happens when I do this!"
The bus driver didn’t realize anyone was hurt until she heard screams. She pulled the bus over near Forward Pass Road, less than a quarter-mile from Bluff Road, and called authorities. Gonzalez was pronounced dead at the scene, Burton said.
His head was pronounced dead back at the tree...
Karen Cantou, a spokeswoman for Perry Township schools, said the driver would be questioned and undergo routine blood-alcohol screenings and other tests.
Why? Did he stick his head out, too?
Neighbors to the site said vehicles had hit the tree repeatedly for years, and the tree was marked with green paint for removal. On the side of the tree facing the road, its base showed old scars.
On the other hand, it didn't come into the bus to get him, did it?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 13:16 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The bus driver will be fired over this and the school sued for millions most likely. All because of you Darwin. Damn your natural selection! If it truly worked, why aren't the members of PETA dead!?

( I do not support the death of PETA members, no matter how amusing their deaths may be. )
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:21 Comments || Top||

#2  Anyone wanna bet that incidence of kids sticking body parts out of bus windows is going to drop dramatically? The smart kids will get it. The stupid ones won't.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#3  Further proof that schoolbuses not only need seat belts on them, but screens over the windows. Something very much like what the county corrections dept. uses to transport prisoners.

It's a shame they're already trying to blame the busdriver (huh?!?!) about this. No doubt the school, the bus manufacturer, and whoever lives by the tree will be sued. Can the gene pool clarify itself before the lawyers sue it out of existence?
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

#4  The bus driver testing is likely routine accident investigation procedure. She'll keep her job.

I *could* support amusing deaths for PETA members if they involve rabies, bear maulings, or anything like the scene in "28 Days Later"!
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 14:01 Comments || Top||

#5  Let's stop blaming Darwin for abject stupidity. Stupidity is a terminal illness. As Bomb said, the smart ones will get it, the stupid ones will do something else to kill themselves.

Living is dangerous. It's not supposed to be a Sunday picnic in the park. It's supposed to be Man proving that he's capable of supporting a family (I.E., children) by providing for the needs of the tribe. Those that fail don't breed. Unfortunately for the gene pool, we've protected the stupid ones far too much, and they ARE breeding. The smart ones are getting themselves killed, mainly in wars, because they have a sense of honor, and feel the need to protect the less fortunate. That won't matter unless too many of the smart ones die, and too many of the stupid ones are not quite stupid enough to get themselves killed.

PETA belongs in the "I'm going to MAKE myself act as stupidly as I can", and deserves whatever happens to its members. Same goes for ALF/ELF and all the other idiotarians that believe they can change both the laws of science and of human nature.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 14:09 Comments || Top||

#6  Living is dangerous. It's not supposed to be a Sunday picnic in the park


"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."
John Wayne
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 14:15 Comments || Top||

#7  "Why? Did he stick his head out, too?"

LMAO!
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 14:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Living is dangerous. It's not supposed to be a Sunday picnic in the park. It's supposed to be Man proving that he's capable of supporting a family (I.E., children) by providing for the needs of the tribe.

What the fuck? So I was put on this planet to prove that I'm capable of supporting a family?

Sorry, O.P, I didn't get that memo. Want to send me a copy? Thanks...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||

#9  What the fuck? So I was put on this planet to prove that I'm capable of supporting a family? Sorry, O.P, I didn't get that memo. Want to send me a copy? Thanks...

Actually, Raj, you were. As was I, OP, and all life-forms that DON'T reproduce asexually. The point of life is... to make more life. Keep spreading until you hit a limit of some sort, then either overcome that limit or die. (Think of bacteria in a petri dish.)

This, of course, doesn't take religion into account, it's a strictly mechanistic point of view. By this sort of viewpoint, unmarried males are expendable assets, useful only when they protect someone else's children and pretty much otherwise a waste of space and food.

But that sort of philosophy is too detailed to go into in depth here at Rantburg. If you like, I'll point you towards the appropriate books on the subject.

Ed Becerra.
Posted by: Ed Becerra || 11/18/2003 15:18 Comments || Top||

#10  His head was pronounced dead back at the tree...
OMG -- ROFLMAO at Fred's comments!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/18/2003 15:20 Comments || Top||

#11  No thanks, Ed. As I am under no obligation to bend to such tripe societal pressures, you both can politely piss off.
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 15:36 Comments || Top||

#12  Further proof that schoolbuses not only need seat belts on them, but screens over the windows.

Be very careful with what you wish for.

I was in Aus just this past summer and on one journey I was surprised to find myself in an intercity bus that had seat belts installed on every seat. A bus, with seat belts. The driver even told us that he could be stopped at any time by the cops and that they would check to see if everybody was buckled in and would cite those who weren't. Needless to say, I was shocked.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 15:45 Comments || Top||

#13  Raj:

If all you were looking for was insults, there are plenty here who would have been happy to provide them. There was no need to insult O.P. and Ed.
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 11/18/2003 15:54 Comments || Top||

#14  Raj--Relax, man! I don't subscribe to that belief either, but there's no need to spit venom. Save it for Murat!
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 16:11 Comments || Top||

#15  FS - maybe, maybe not. What do you do when your belief system runs counter to others (OP & Ed) and you find their insistence thereof, well, insulting?

Looks like I missed a good opportunity to keep quiet...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 16:33 Comments || Top||

#16  Actually, I didn't mean to sound insistent. I merely thought that Raj wasn't familiar with the concept, and sought to let him know that it existed. Whether it's correct or not, well, it's up to history to make THAT judgement.

I do appologize, Raj, if I sounded pushy or abrupt. I honestly thought you weren't acquainted with the philosophy/concept. My bad.

Ed Becerra
Posted by: Ed Becerra || 11/18/2003 16:48 Comments || Top||

#17  No problem, Ed. Maybe I took it the wrong way reading OP's & your comments: suppose I decide not to have kids (a whole 'nother discussion); OP's comments kinda sorta lump me into the supid / PETA gang of idiots, and yours have me into 'expendable assets'? Who wouldn't feel insulted by that?

Then again, no blood, no foul...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#18  Raj,
I offer no apology, but I do hope you understand that I didn't mean what I said as an insult - to you or anyone else, other than those who are terminally stupid - I.E., kill themselves through their own acts of unintelligent behavior.

If you choose not to have children, that's your choice. That isn't stupid behavior, just personal choice. If, on the other hand, you decide to play 'chicken' with 18-wheelers at night, with your lights off, around curves on a mountain road, that's also personal choice, but not necessarily a bright one. Most people know where to draw the line between behavior that's 'sane' and behavior that's 'insane' ('smart' vs. 'stupid'). I place you in the SANE category (not going out of your way to do things to get yourself killed).

This is all very simplified, of course, and there are hundreds of "exceptions" - religion, personal choice, etc. I was just calling attention to the fact that removing one's self from the gene pool by doing something that's dangerous, but with no observable reward for such behavior, isn't the same as not being able to survive because things are worse than what you have the ability to handle (Darwin's 'survival of the fittest'). One is 'stupid', the other is 'tough'. Two totally different evaluations altogether!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 17:15 Comments || Top||

#19  It's not supposed to be a Sunday picnic in the park

Color me gone.
Jesus would have had TiVo.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:24 Comments || Top||

#20  After reading all the threads, I am amazed at the twists and turns comments on this article took after the article reported that some idiot stuck his head out the window and got it wacked by a tree.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 17:37 Comments || Top||

#21  Agreed AP - clearly a head injury was redundant with this fool
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:43 Comments || Top||

#22  Made all my kids read the story in the local paper. Tomorrow's follow-up will be a picture of Julia "Butterfly" Hill in tears at the roadside clutching a broken branch lovingly.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:19 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
Now if we could just get them to leave New York....
EFL & Shame
The U.N. refugee agency began cowering pulling foreign staff out of large swaths of southern and eastern Afghanistan on Tuesday in the wake of the killing of a French worker, a decision that could affect tens of thousands of Afghan returnees.
Courage.
Some 30 foreign staff members were being withdrawn like candyasses, and refugee centers in the Afghan provinces of Nangarhar, Paktia, Khost and Kandahar were being closed, said Filippo Grandi, the chief of mission in Afghanistan with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
Bravery.
"We are taking today a painful decision to temporarily abandon anybody who actually needs us reduce staff in the eastern and southern province," said Grandi. "We will review the situation after two weeks."
Conviction.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/18/2003 7:23:19 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Perfect timing with winter coming on, too. Hopefully winter will be as severe as it has been the last two years and the good people of Afghanistan can yawn and laugh about the UN pussies which were once there.
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 9:13 Comments || Top||

#2  This is the organization to which the leftists think we should cede our national defense? The first sign of adversity and they cut and run (granted, that was clinton's defense policy, but not now). And somehow this agency is better equipped to finish the job in Iraq. Hmmmm...
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:54 Comments || Top||

#3  Those for renaming the UNHCR The Fellowship of Sir Robin, say "aye".
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Bush needs to convince the Euros to build a new, better UN, in the outskirts of Paris. They should have the honor of hosting the diplomats in the worlds finest city.

And it would have the added advantage that dictators visiting the UN could check out the real estate market along the riviera for their eventual grab and run.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 14:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Now if we could just get them to leave New York.... LOL!
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 16:04 Comments || Top||

#6  Now if we could just get them to leave New York

Maybe have the UN building comdemned as a nuisance site and auction it off? Bring RICO charges against all the 'diplomats' and throw them in the Tombs, let The Donald develop the site.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 17:06 Comments || Top||

#7  Anon.... are you rich? You think like a rich person. :)
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:41 Comments || Top||

#8  I hope some USAid workers replace them. That's what those folks are supposed to be doing right? They don't just sign checks to Oxfam and other anti-American charities, do they?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 21:19 Comments || Top||


US troops claim killing five Al Qaeda fighters
Suspected Al Qaeda terrorists attacked a contingent of US and Afghan troops in eastern Afghanistan, sparking a firefight in which five militants were killed, a spokesman for the US military said Monday. The attack occurred Friday in the Barmal district of eastern Paktika province, US military spokesman Maj. Bryan Hilferty told The Associated Press. “Anti-coalition forces attacked US and Afghan National Army forces in the Barmal area,” Hilferty said. “We returned fire and killed five Al Qaeda terrorists,” he said, adding that eight Afghan army soldiers were wounded in the clash and evacuated to a coalition hospital. Hilferty strongly denied allegations by Paktika police chief Daulat Khan that US forces had killed six civilians in the area on the same day. “We take our rules of engagement very seriously and I can assure you that these terrorists were not peaceful civilians,” the spokesman said in an e-mail response to a written request for information about the incident. Khan had said six civilians were killed when US warplanes dropped a bomb on their vehicle on a road in Barmal on Friday. Paktika Governor Mohammad Ali Jalali also said six civilians died in US bombardment in Barmal. “Six civilians lost their lives,” Jalali said. “I don’t know if they were all members of the same family or from different families.” Jalali has expressed frustration with US “friendly fire” incidents in the past, including in April when the US military admitted it killed 11 Afghan civilians by mistake in an air attack near Shkin.
"Y'see, dem guys wid da turbans, dey wudn't no al-Qaeda. That wuz... ummm... my cousins from outta town. An' one o' my sisters."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:31 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Must have been another of those 'wedding processions' that always seem to shoot at U.S. troops.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 0:35 Comments || Top||

#2  Is your seester cherry-girl,Heffie.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:27 Comments || Top||

#3  "Jalali has expressed frustration with US “friendly fire” incidents in the past, including in April when the US military admitted it killed 11 Afghan civilians by mistake in an air attack near Shkin."

-Sounds like it was their mistake. Darwin award material......Let's see; war going on, its night time, you know American Warplanes are in the air loaded to the teeth....Cool, lets shoot off all our weapons in the air like a bunch of drunken banditos........
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 8:54 Comments || Top||

#4  sounds like the Governor and Police Chief of Paktika need to be watched very carefully
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:10 Comments || Top||

#5  It's standard Muslim operating procedure to claim that all of their dead are civilians. This is why the US is alleged to have killed thousands of civilians in Iraq*. The Muslim standard is that Muslims are civilians if they're not in uniform, (and probably even if they are). To them, the civilian/military distinction doesn't apply to non-Muslims - all of them are legitimate targets, especially when Muslims are doing the killing. The philosophy can be boiled down to this - according to the Koran, all non-Muslims are going to hell, so offing non-Muslims merely speeds up the process a little.

* Would have been nice if we had, but getting blamed for things we had no part of, is galling.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/18/2003 10:18 Comments || Top||

#6  "Y'see, dem guys wid da turbans, dey wudn't no al-Qaeda. That wuz... ummm... my cousins from outta town. An' one o' my sisters."

I wish to apply for a scholarship to the Rantburg School of Snappy Dialogue.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:43 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Sheikh Khudair renounces his religious edicts
Sheikh Ali bin Khudair al-Khudair, a well-known Saudi cleric who aired extremist views, has repented and withdrawn religious edicts and support for 19 al-Qaeda suspects following a deadly suicide bombing in Riyadh.
Changed his mind, did he?
"We issued support for those 19 before the events of Riyadh ... and some of them came to us, it was perceived they were innocent ... and we voiced our support for them, but when the (Riyadh) events took place we discovered that we had acted hastily and regret it. It was wrong," Khudair said in an interview aired on Saudi television late Monday.
"They lied to me!"
Asked how he viewed the attack on the Al-Muhaya compound in Riyadh which killed at least 17 people and wounded more than 120, Khudair said: "No doubt it is wrong. I condemn it and I denounce it." The cleric withdrew the fatwas or edicts that had sanctioned resisting and fighting Saudi security authorities who have launched massive manhunts and arrested hundreds in a crackdown on armed Islamist extremists.
Humm, think the security authorities have objected to his fatwas?
"Of course it has become clear they were wrong ... these fatwas are wrong," he said, adding, "I have renounced these fatwas and this is a clear message to listeners that I have renounced them. "It is forbidden to kill them without a doubt." Al-Khudair, who was arrested three months ago for supporting the 19 Saudi militants wanted by the authorities, urged the remaining suspects to give themselves up.
Gee, I guess that somebody did have a "talk" with him.
The cleric also withdrew fatwas that had declared Saudi scholars and thinkers Turki al-Hamad, Mansur al-Naqeedan and Abdullah Abu-Samh as infidels. Responding to whether or not he thought jihad, or holy war, was sanctioned in Iraq, Khudair said he didn’t think it was appropriate, maintaining that what was taking place in Iraq was "sedition".
"Thank you for your comments, Sheikh Khudair."
"Are we off the air? OK, officer, you can take the electrodes off now"
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 11:41:40 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Either this guy gets taken out because he's a lieing sun of snake. Or he gets taken out because he no longer supports the "holy war". Life must be pretty sweet for a big shot sheikh.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#2  "I have renounced these fatwas and now my urine will clear up"
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#3  Yeah, they're big on the repenting over there. Just don't say it again, okay Ali...wink-wink.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 17:25 Comments || Top||

#4  What conviction! There's a man of the cloth.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 11/18/2003 22:15 Comments || Top||


Britain
Livingstone says Bush is 'greatest threat to life on planet'
Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, launched a stinging attack on President George Bush last night, denouncing him as the "greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen".
"He's worse'n a comet headed straight for the earth! He's worse'n nuclear war! He's uglier'n a bagfulla wart hogs! He has skidmarks in his underwear, jam between his toes! Drool!"
His provocatively timed comments, on the eve of Mr Bush's arrival in London tonight, threaten to create severe embarrassment for the Prime Minister.
Livingstone himself appears to be incapable of embarrassment...
They also come with talks under way on whether to re-admit Mr Livingstone to the Labour Party before his five-year exile ends.
Hell, yeah! They need more people like him! Put him in charge of the Home Office...
Although he made his many differences with the Government on a range of issues clear, he reserved his strongest comments for the American President in an interview with The Ecologist magazine.
Scott Burgess disassembles Livingstone, chortling merrily the while...
Mr Livingstone recalled a visit at Easter to California, where he was denounced for an attack he had made on what he called "the most corrupt and racist American administration in over 80 years". He said: "Some US journalist came up to me and said: 'How can you say this about President Bush?' Well, I think what I said then was quite mild. I actually think that Bush is the greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen. The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction."
Cheeze. There's no pleasing some people...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 10:24 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is "Red" Ken, isn't it?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 10:28 Comments || Top||

#2  What Mr. Livingstone meant was that Bush is the greatest danger to HIM and his looney liberal loose-mouthed idiocy. He's obviously not bright enough to see that his own personality is one of the greatest threats to intelligent life on the face of this planet. Hope this bottom-feeding pile of algae droppings becomes a Darwin Award winner - soon.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 10:34 Comments || Top||

#3  Yeah. He never met a totalitarian regime he didn't like.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

#4  Mayor of Freaking London. You have to wonder if the UK isn't already 'lost'.

Maybe we should move the 'Good' brits to canada, move the shit head canadians to the uk, and give the entire thing to france (or algeria). Let them worry about it.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#5  "...[Red Ken] reserved his strongest comments for the American President in an interview with The Ecologist magazine"

And thus we have the term, "watermelon environmentalist": green on the outside, red on the inside. A better illustration would be hard to fine.
Posted by: Dave D. || 11/18/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#6  Even those of us who wonder whether Dubya is a damn liar or just stupid have to roll our eyes over such morons who have not had an original thought since '68.

Thank you for the identity statement Lord Mayor, now grab a brain.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/18/2003 11:11 Comments || Top||

#7  What makes you guys so angry, Livingstone just voiced what many Europeans think (and not only Europeans)
Posted by: Murat || 11/18/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#8  Disappointed that so many euros are such misguided fools, not angry.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:44 Comments || Top||

#9  Murat, the wilful performance of acts of gross stupidity in public always makes me angry. That's one reason I seldom respond to your posts.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#10  Nice Pimp Slap OP! LOL
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 11:56 Comments || Top||

#11  Such bravery by a man who knows that to say such things, about an American president, can lead to torture, even death. A true giant of civil disobediance.

Just heard this on ABC radiio news. A bloke saying, "we attack President Bush because it's easy to do".

Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 12:11 Comments || Top||

#12  What makes you guys so angry, Livingstone just voiced what many Europeans think (and not only Europeans)
Gee, thanks for pointing that out Murat, but we're quite aware the Europe and the US has it's share of knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers (watermelon works here too). It's not anger...it's mostly befuddlement at how people with such shocking stupidity are able to dress and feed themselves on a daily basis.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/18/2003 12:42 Comments || Top||

#13  Does this guy write for the NME in his spare time?
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 14:31 Comments || Top||

#14  Go ahead, Ken. Call Bush a "cowboy". You know you want to. You'll feel better.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 16:42 Comments || Top||

#15  LOL.
Cowboy.
Bush is a Cowboy.
Cowboy is a Bush.

You're right TU I do feel better!
BTW what happened to the Gangster American Meme?

Fusion
Fort Apache Makes You an Offer
Directed by: John Ford Coupolla.

Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:34 Comments || Top||


Guantanamo Bay detainee suffers from depression
EFL:
One of the Britons held by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has been diagnosed as suffering from depression since being captured red-handed locked up without charge, the Guardian has learned.
I guess if I was in jail I’d be a little depressed myself.
Look on the bright side: it's only until the end of the WoT.
The diagnosis of depression was made by a US military forensic psychiatrist who examined Feroz Abassi, 23. Mr Abassi, from Croydon, south London, has been held for nearly two years, accused of being a terrorist, but has been denied access to a lawyer or other basic human rights. Mr Abassi’s lawyer and his family called for a check on his mental health after letters from him showed signs of increased distress. Mr Abassi is one of two Britons designated by Mr Bush to face the military tribunal, the rules of which have also sparked worldwide condemnation for being biased towards the prosecution. In a summary of the report the Pentagon-selected psychologist was reported to have said: "During his incarceration, Abassi had exhibited withdrawn behaviour suggestive of recurrent depression. However he attributed this to mistrust of the guards and interrogators... he had overcome much of this mistrust in recent months and much more outgoing behaviour and cooperation."
My translation, he was upset over being caught and worried about being misstreated. When he found out he could get better treatment by cooperating and we weren’t going to beat a confession out of him, he improved.
But a leading British expert said the supposed improvement in Mr Abassi’s state may have followed a deal with his captors.
Yup.
Gisli Gudjonsson, professor of forensic psychology at the University of London, examined the report for Mr Abassi’s family. Mr Gudjonsson, an expert on psychological vulnerability and confessions who has worked for Scotland Yard, said in his report: "It is not clear what exactly has made him overcome his mistrust and cooperate more fully with staff. Nor is it clear in what ways Mr Abassi has become more cooperative (eg is he more forthcoming and open with the interrogators? Is he disclosing and revealing incriminating and sensitive material? Is he more sociable and friendly with the guards and other staff?). Has he negotiated a deal with his captors?"
I’d say yes.
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 9:43:59 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1 
Guantanamo Bay detainee suffers from depression

My depression just vanished.
Posted by: ISLAM SUCKS || 11/18/2003 9:53 Comments || Top||

#2  "It is not clear what exactly has made him overcome his mistrust and cooperate more fully with staff

"hmmmmmmmm gimme a green two yellows and a button and I'll tell ya about Dire Revenge VI."
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 10:01 Comments || Top||

#3  so he's depressed. too bad. maybe he should have been taken out and shoot as a traitor early on. i'll bet that would have resolved his depression.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Boo-hoo. He is being denied the chance to martyr himself by strapping on a bomb and killing a few dozen infidels. I'm all torn up about it.

It's a real shock to these guys when they get caught and thrown in a cage, isn't it? They should have thought about the consequences before they picked up that AK.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#5  It's amazing what happy meals and added weight can do.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:52 Comments || Top||

#6  POW's do not get lawyers, they do not go before military tribunrals or told the charges. They sit in a prisoner of war camp until the end of hostilities. The Bush Administration really blew it by calling them unlawful combatants rather than POWs because eventually they will have to have a trial if they are unlawful combatants.

As POWs of the Taliban they can be released to the new Afghanistani government as soon as combat in Afghanistan stops. If they served Al Queda they can be released as soon as Al Queda is destroyed or ends it war on the West.

Either case they better just get comfortable because they'll be waiting for a long time.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#7  The Bush Administration really blew it by calling them unlawful combatants rather than POWs

I think it's the other way around. By declaring them POWs, under the 3rd Geneva Convention, they are entitled to a trial as soon as possible. Declaring them enemy combatants, and holding them *not* on US soil, results in their legal status being undetermined, and they can be held for as long as anyone wants.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 11:19 Comments || Top||

#8  Maybe a little electroshock therapy is in order?
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 11:52 Comments || Top||

#9  Depression, the silent disease. If you know someone who may be experiencing depression let them know, there is help available.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 12:22 Comments || Top||

#10  Rafael, I think you have it backwards. POWs do not get a trial unless they commit a crime during captivity. The 3rd Geneva Convention pretty much defaults everyone to being a POW when in doubt, requiring a trial to determine their unlawful status.

The basic difference is unlawful combatants don't get to mingle with each other, plan mischief, and discuss what interogators want. All of which I agree with, but the US could declare them POWs now and avoid the required trial and still hold them until the end of hostilities.

The link beside my name goes to the text of the 3rd convention.Perhaps I'm wrong but I read through the thing and that's how I read it.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

#11  Yank, I defer to your judgment on this one. Though I do think that the administration chose the term 'enemy combatants' precisely because the legal ambiguity (if there is one) gives them a lot of room to manoeuvre. That, along with Gitmo's undetermined status (SCOTUS is looking at that now) seemed like the logical step to take in the short run.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

#12  Mr Abassi, from Croydon, south London, has been held for nearly two years, accused of being a terrorist, but has been denied access to a lawyer or other basic human rights.

Since when is access to a lawyer a "basic human right"??
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 14:03 Comments || Top||

#13  Damn, where'd that leetle violin go? I'm always losing that thing.

The only depression I want these guys to be in is the one they get to dig for themselves after we've finished picking their little pea-brans.
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#14  Rafael, I agreed with the strategy initially, it was a smart short term strategy, but I think the strategy should be changed rather than go into trials. I'm pretty sure we've gotten everything useful out of them now, the only risk is allowing Al Queda to know who is alive and who is not.

To be honest I'm not sure how big a deal that is, perhaps its worth keeping them as Unlawful Combatants for awhile longer. Still, they should be rearranging Guantanimo to look and act more like a POW camp and help the public relations a bit.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 14:59 Comments || Top||

#15  "The beatings will continue until morale improves! -- Management"
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 16:17 Comments || Top||

#16  Feed him to the sharks in front of the boys. Then ask the rest of them if they have issues with "depression"...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 16:47 Comments || Top||

#17  Sentence the guy to house arrest in the home of the clown who wrote this article for the Guardian.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 21:00 Comments || Top||


Most Labour voters back Bush visit
From the al-Guardian, no less! EFL:
More than half of Labour supporters back US President George Bush’s state visit to Britain, according to a survey. They were among an overall 43% of voters who told pollsters ICM they welcomed the visit — some 7% more than the 36% who said they would prefer the President to stay away. Twelve per cent were undecided.
"Big Boy — should he stay? Or go?"
The survey, published in The Guardian as Mr Bush flies to the UK, contradicted the widely-held assumption that the visit will damage Prime Minister Tony Blair. It recorded improved ratings for the Prime Minister personally, as well as a slump in opposition to the war in Iraq. And it indicated that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American, with 62% of respondents agreeing the US was "generally speaking, a force for good", compared to 15% who described it as "an evil empire".
Has anyone told the BBC?

They're working on it. Tney're working on it...
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 9:27:41 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The BBC isn't interested.
Posted by: rabidfox || 11/18/2003 10:16 Comments || Top||

#2  The Baby Brit Crybabies aren't relevant any longer.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#3  The BBC isn't interested.
Posted by: rabidfox || 11/18/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#4  Yay for Labour supporters.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||

#5  15% consider the US an Evil Empire? I can imagine disagreeing with policies, but that's just delusional. What are the odds that 15% of respondents consider themselves Communists?
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Evil Empire?
No way. We're the Sleepy Empire you don't want to wake up cause if you do you will long for the Evil Empire.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:39 Comments || Top||

#7  Yay for Labour supporters.

Indeed. Bizarrely, the Guardian don't make any reference to the opinions of Tory voters. Although they do say the Lib Dem (today's most left of the three main parties) voters were most anti.

Like the infamous recent threats to world peace poll, though, this one doesn't seem to me to reveal anything definite at all. I'm sure there are many people who want Bush to come to the UK in order to be humiliated, and there are those who don't want Bush to come because the behaviour of the anti-Bush circus freaks may well embarrass both Bush and the UK. I don't think you can read much into the results of this poll.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/18/2003 18:37 Comments || Top||

#8  Should qualify that and say that only applies to the one question - regarding whether or not the pollsterees supported the President's visit. The other US = force for good question and the responses seem as though they can be taken at face value, and the generally positive response is very good to see.

The Guardian don't quote the actual questions though. Very shoddy reporting, IMO, but all too common nowadays.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/18/2003 19:01 Comments || Top||


Nutcake ’dies in Iraq battle’
A FORMER MARTIAL arts instructor with a pregnant wife and baby son in Sheffield is thought to have been killed trying to blow up US troops in Iraq.
It’s never as easy as it looks on TV.
Black belt Wail al Dhaleai left his family in the South Yorkshire city five weeks ago, telling friends he had landed a job teaching Tae Kwon Do in Dubai. The 22-year-old, who came to Britain from Yemen seeking political asylum and married a British woman, allegedly died attacking Americans earlier this month. Islamic fighters are said to have phoned his parents in Yemen with the news. Yesterday his martial arts pals back in Sheffield were stunned. Fellow instructor Andy Hill said: “It’s incredible, he was so friendly — the last man you’d think was involved with fanatics.” Andy, 43, added: “He was a very good teacher — all the youngsters used to get on well with him. “His religion was very important. We once took him to a pub, but he said he couldn’t go in because he couldn’t drink. “His wife is a Sheffield girl and she converted to his religion after they married two years ago.” Sources believe a number of men have been recruited in Britain to attack coalition forces.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/18/2003 8:18:49 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Our sympathies to his wife and child that he was a fanatical idiot, and our thanks that he was sufficiently unskilled so as to die without his virgins raisins. Tough shit, huh? Use better judgement next time, hon?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:03 Comments || Top||

#2  I guess a black belt in Tae Kwon Do isn't enough to defeat Chobham armor. Should have stuck to breaking 2x4's.

"Hana! Dul! Set!" *blam*
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 9:44 Comments || Top||

#3  To quote an old martial arts film:

"Karate this, motherf***er"...
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:53 Comments || Top||

#4  One might ask what was he thinking, but then the answer is obvious - he wasn't.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono || 11/18/2003 10:55 Comments || Top||

#5  who came to Britain from Yemen seeking political asylum

That's not 'seeking asylum', that's called being a sleeper agent until you get get activated.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:22 Comments || Top||

#6  Hopefully his wife can get back to being English.

And some of his co-workers will realize there is a 5th column and they had better pay attention.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#7  This guy was a killer from day one. The marriage was a sham...it provided cover. Now the asshat is wormfood. Works for me.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/18/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#8  “It’s incredible, he was so friendly — the last man you’d think was involved with fanatics.”

Glad they used the right term for describing the fighters in Iraq: Fanatics.
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 12:57 Comments || Top||

#9  22 year old ? I doubt he knew anything... especially considering it's freaking Tae Kwon Do, about as pathetic as you can get..
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 13:43 Comments || Top||

#10  No more wailing for Wail...too bad, so sad.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 16:50 Comments || Top||

#11  Anonymous> At least it wasn't crane-style kung fu *smirk*
Posted by: Lu Baihu || 11/18/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

#12  There is a concerted, deliberate program by Muslim men to seduce and impregnate as many non-Muslim women as they can (with the additional benefit of citizenship rights in some countries); funny, however, that Muslim women aren't supposed to marry non-Muslim men. Well, women only have half a soul and are destined for hell, anyways- according to Islam.
Posted by: alzaebo || 11/18/2003 23:06 Comments || Top||


Investigation into UK boomer in Iraq
The Foreign Office is investigating reports that a man from Sheffield carried out a suicide bomb attack on US troops in Iraq. A Yemeni newspaper has reported that 22-year-old Wail al Dhaleai died during a bomb attack, although a date and location are not specified.
See that? No trial or anything. Just BOOM! It's all our fault... Somehow.
The report said his parents in the Yemen were called by Islamic fighters in Iraq telling them their son had killed himself.
"Hey! You'll never guess what happened! Y'know your son? Well, he ain't no more..."
A spokesman for the Foreign Office said officials were investigating the reports. According to a report in The Guardian, al Dhaleai moved to the UK three years ago. He was a very quiet person who never used to interfere with anybody’s problems. He was said to have married a British woman and the couple had a young son.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/18/2003 12:10:08 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Imagine how many of these mutts are trying to get next to Dubya in London this week. The leftists in the UK are completely out of control.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 0:39 Comments || Top||

#2  ....and here are his hands and feet.
Posted by: Rhodesiafever || 11/18/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||


Europe
Germany ends political asylum for Iraqis
Hat tip: Andrew Sullivan.
Interior Minister Otto Schilly removed the stop on decisions in the cases of asylum applicants from Iraq. A similar instruction was already issued by the SPD politician’s ministry in mid-September to the Federal Bureau for the Recognition of Foreign Refugees. Earlier, because of the Iraq war, the bureau stopped sending decision letters to asylum applicants for months. The ministry now justifies the resumption of decisions on asylum cases with the statement that "at the time and in the near future political persecution in Iraq can be ruled out."
No thanks to Herr Schroeder for taking any action to end political persecution in Iraq. At least his government can recognize the change.
Original news article (auf Deutsch) here.
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 12:17:56 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Your welcome.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 11/18/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#2  I liked David's comment in his blog post:

The political persecution - that certainly existed earlier in Iraq - can now be ruled out? And who do we have to thank for this good news? Certainly not that naive, stupid Texan, that neo-conservative striving to rule the world, that slave to capitalism controlled by the oil industry, that unpopular ... George Bush?

Posted by: Seafarious || 11/18/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||


Steyn on Britain’s Anti-war "activists"
Mark Steyn: My favorite correspondent, bar none.
On the British Loon Party and the Bush visit.
If you’re so inclined, you can spend the week listening to long speeches by George Galloway and Harold Pinter. Or you can cut to the chase and get the message from Maulana Inyadullah. In late September 2001 Mr Inyadullah was holed up in Peshawar awaiting the call to arms against the Great Satan and offered this pithy soundbite to the Telegraph’s David Blair:

"The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death."

That’s it in a nutshell - or in a nut’s hell.
(or in a nutcase)
And, like Mr Inyadullah, if it’s Pepsi or death, the fellows on the streets of London this week choose death — at least for the Iraqis. If it’s a choice between letting some carbonated-beverage crony of Dick Cheney get a piece of the Nasariyah soft-drinks market or allowing Saddam to go on feeding his subjects feet-first into the industrial shredder for another decade or three, then the "peace" activists will take the lesser of two evils - ie, crank up the shredder. Better yet, end UN sanctions so Saddam can replace the older, less reliable shredders, the ones with too many bits of bone tissue jammed in the cogs.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 11:11:50 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death."

That can be arranged, and on a very large scale, if need be.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 15:47 Comments || Top||

#2  death has less calories and tooth decay...kinda
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:45 Comments || Top||

#3  I don't think they really are siding with Sadaam. It's more like the guy sitting on the fence has a bullhorn and is hanging abnoxious signs.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:51 Comments || Top||


Italy to expel controversial imam
Officials in Italy say they are deporting a Senegalese imam who poses a "great threat" to state security. The decision follows recent statements to the media by Fall Mamour, predicting that there would be attacks on Italian soldiers in Iraq.
Bad timing, Fall.
The 39-year-old imam was already being investigated for his financial deals, an interior ministry statement said.
Aren’t they all.
The move comes as Italy prepares for the state funerals of 19 policemen and soldiers killed last week in Iraq. Mr Mamour would be expelled within days, the ministry said without giving further details.
"Pack your shit and get out."
"He (Mamour) was already known to authorities as somebody who received suspect funds," the ministry said. "In addition, for a long time, and even more so since the slaughter of Italian soldiers in Nasiriya, he has launched dangerous initiatives, especially in the present context of international terrorism." The statement said Mr Mamour had several aliases and was best known as the "imam of Carmagnola" — a suburb of the northern city of Turin. Since the Nasiriya attack, several Italian newspapers have published stories on a series of predictions Mr Mamour made weeks before the bombing, in which he warned of attacks against Italian soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. The imam said Italy’s troops would be targeted because they were aiding the US-led coalition, adding that further strikes would then follow on Italian soil.
I’m surprised that there haven’t been any attacks on our supporters in Europe. Either they have been pro-active enough in breaking up any terror cells, or our fly paper strategy has drawn all the hard boys into Iraq.
Mr Mamour — who has lived in Italy for 11 years — has previously stirred controversy by his statements on Italian television programmes. During one of the TV interviews, he said he had once fought alongside Osama bin Laden and was linked to the al-Qaeda leader by what he said was a "blood pact".
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 8:52:16 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  why he is being expelled intact? Let the families of the dead soldiers have at him
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:22 Comments || Top||

#2  Cose Turche's following this, and he posted this last week:

...Reportedly, the police chief who searched Mamour's house replied to the objections of Mamour's wife (an Italian convert to Islam) by saying: "your husband wanted holy war, no? well, we're here precisely to give him holy war, don't worry, we'll satisfy all your demands" - which sent the woman even more berserk, protesting the "invasion" of her home and asking to see her husband and where had they taken him and he'd done nothing wrong and how dared they. At which stage, the police chief replied: "you keep quiet, madam, or there's handcuffs waiting for you too".

Informative blog in English and Italian,

link

Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#3  Oh, phooey, the link didn't work - Cose's at blogspot.

This was posted on 11/14.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:01 Comments || Top||

#4  "Your husband wanted holy war, no? And she says "how dare they".

I'm sure she and the iman will enjoy Senegal. That will be a real eye opener for her.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 11:46 Comments || Top||

#5  Maybe they can move to Rwanda and become honorary Hutus.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Damn! Gotta love the attitude of that police chief!
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#7  I wonder why the Brits are not taking similar action by the bushel! It seems every time you turn your head in London, Manchester, and other big UK cities, you look straight at some mosque or Moslem "religious school" preaching death and destruction upon the infidels -- the UK government directly included. What's with the Brits? Death wish?
Posted by: AT || 11/18/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#8  When the Iranians took hostages, we expelled most of the Iranian students from the US. Better for them anyway - too many guys with conferate flags in the back of their pick-ups ... oops sorry.

Off topic - If the Confederate flag is so controversial, how did the Dukes of Hazard get on the air on network tlevision?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 21:15 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
The "Bring A Smile to a Muslim Prisoner" Campaign
"About 80 children from a mosque madrassah in London, UK, have made Eid cards for the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay as part of Cageprisoner.com’s Bring A Smile to a Muslim Prisoner Campaign," according to CagePrisoners.com. Lest anyone think the group’s aims are humanitarian, the page states: "Once Muslim children around the World begin to get involved and write Eid Cards to America’s so-called ’illegal combatants,’ it will be a massive set back to America’s ’hearts and minds’ campaign in both the Muslim and non-Muslim World."

Maybe somebody should send them... bibles.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/18/2003 4:24:53 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  These kids can all piss off too...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#2  I do not have much hope of winning the Muslims' hearts and minds™. It is so disheartening to see the Muslim grownups twisting up the minds of the next generation, so they can sink further down in the dustbin of history. Pretty sad, if you ask me.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#3  Take hope Paul.

heres something from Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri of Iran. via the WaPo.

'I feel irritated whenever I hear this slogan, 'Death to America' or 'Down with America,' " said Montazeri, key architect of the theocracy that he now fights with all the energy an 82-year-old with a heart condition can muster.

"I believe," he said, "that the 300 million people of North America are mostly religious people, hardworking people." '
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 16:35 Comments || Top||

#4  Thanks for the tip, LH! Here's the article he cited. It's refreshing to read about a truly moderate Muslim, much less one who's a Grand Ayatollah.
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 16:40 Comments || Top||

#5  Hey, what's the address? I got about fifty pounds of dogshit I picked up this weekend I don't need. Happy Eid, assholes.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 16:55 Comments || Top||

#6  Thanks LH. I would sure like to see other Moderate Muslims™ besides an 82 year old chap with a weak ticker take up the cause. He has nothing to lose now, so he can say it like he sees it, and that is a good thing.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 17:02 Comments || Top||

#7  heres something from healingiraq (a blogger whos no grand ayatollah - my impression is hes pretty secular)

"Huge anti-terrorism demonstrations were held in Nassiriyah yesterday by students association condemning the attacks on the Italian force carrying signs such as 'No to terrorism. Yes to freedom and peace', and 'This cowardly act will unify us'. I have to add that there were similar demonstrations in Baghdad more than a week ago also by students against the bombings of police stations early this Ramadan. I hope the demonstrations advocates that bugged me are satisfied now. There are also preparations for anti-terror demonstrations before Id (end of Ramadan holidays)."


Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 17:06 Comments || Top||

#8  Bring A Smile to a Muslim Prisoner Campaign
"You're such a holy guy, and we love you so much, we're going to ask Allah to give you 73 raisins!"
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 17:23 Comments || Top||

#9  Allah sez eat the dot and listen to the music.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:29 Comments || Top||

#10  seeing as how they wanna go back to the 7th century, shouldn't these kids have to quit using paper and start carving rock tablets?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:36 Comments || Top||


Senator Shesh calls for Protests
Traitor Senator Viqi Shesh from the Kuat system Rebel Mp George Galloway has issued a rallying cry to members of Bristol’s anti-war movement, urging them to join a national protest against George Bush’s state visit to the UK. The Glasgow MP, who was kicked out of the Labour Party after urging British troops in Iraq to disobey orders, was warmly received by more than 200 beauzeaux supporters at the Malcolm X Centre in St Paul’s last night. The public meeting heard that at least 100 people have already signed up to go to the capital for a protest past Parliament on Thursday. It will come after a demonstration in Bristol city centre tomorrow evening, where the city’s anti-war coalition plan to topple a 15-foot high hand-made statue of Mr Bush, copying the way a statue of Saddam Hussein was brought down in Baghdad at the end of the war in April. Mr Galloway called for British troops to abandon the Iraqi people withdraw from Iraq. He said: "The march through London may be the most important political demonstration of our time. I believe it will have an impact on both British and American politics. We have got to show the people of America and Britain that we don’t approve of what Bush and Blair have done. Neither of them deserves to survive in power for what they have done to the Iraqi people. The coalition, as they call themselves, has still not found any weapons of mass destruction. They went to war on a lie."
Then his lips fell off, his legs shrank, his nose grew, a string snapped on his harp, and he turned into a pillar of salt and thus culd say no more.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 3:49:54 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why is he doing this? He's lost his funding from Sadaam, and I can't imagine that he's doing it for free. Maybe the people at Malcom X Centre paid him an honorarium.
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 16:16 Comments || Top||

#2  Good question, B. Might be interesting to see Georgie's pay stub and see who he's being butt boy for now.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 16:58 Comments || Top||

#3  Rebel Mp George Galloway has issued a rallying cry

How is this done?
I've always wanted to take a crack at Calling Down the Clans but I am unsure as to how to proceed.

How much Whiskey do I need?
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:49 Comments || Top||

#4  "How much Whiskey do I need?"
If you have to ask, it's "nae enough."
(And none of those awful blends, either!)
;-)
Posted by: Old McGrouch || 11/18/2003 18:15 Comments || Top||

#5  Malcolm X? Isn't that still being taken as a cross???
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:38 Comments || Top||

#6  Brit Hume pointed out that NPR quoted Galloway without any type of diclaimer about his recent troubles. NPR considers Galloway the legitimate voice of the UK. Anyone surprised?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:41 Comments || Top||


Amnesia International reverts.
THOUSANDS of people will take to the streets in Britain next week to make faces and holler voice their anger, frustration and political opposition to President George W Bush’s policies.
"More people to the shredders!"
Some will criticise these protestors, writing off their views as knee-jerk anti-Americanism. But the critics should think before condemning them.
"Uhhh... Hokay. 'm thinkin'... 'm thinkin'... 'm tryin' to think but nothin's happ'nin'. What should I think?"
Why? Because after almost three years of President Bush’s "war on terror" many would argue that the world is now a more dangerous and divided place than it was immediately after 9/11. Countries don’t protect freedom by attacking hard-won civil liberties, locking up thousands of people without charge or trial, and rushing through ever-more draconian laws.
Remember when Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore disappeared? Remember when the ANSWER protesters were nerve-gassed on October 25? None of that happened!
You don’t win the hearts and minds of the doubters and the disaffected by riding roughshod over human rights.
Some thing Bush does not.
But you DO provide terrorists and extremists with the kind of propaganda they could only have dreamt of a few years ago. Take Guantanamo Bay.
"... Please!" Nyuk nyuk nyuk!
What is the impact of the image of the orange boiler-suited detainees crouching in submission behind Camp Delta’s chain-link fences?
Ummm... I see kaptured krazed killers. What do you see?
Most people in this country seem to be revolted that nearly 700 people are held without charge or trial and without access to lawyers or family for almost two years.
"Yeah, dammit! If they'd just shot 'em, they'd be dead by now!"
They question our own government’s weakness in failing to properly stand up for the rights of the nine British men imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.
"George? About those prisoners in Guantanamo?"
"Yes, Tony?"
"I'm feeling weak. I don't care what you do with them."
RIGHTLY, they wonder whether our government would have been more robust had these men been held by a country like Iran or Syria or almost any other country besides the US. But, take the understandable outrage in this country and apply it to a Middle-Eastern country. When the manacled men from Guantanamo Bay flash up on Al-Jazeera television, for example, we can easily guess that outrage reaches new levels.
Because the Arab news parrots the same lies being parroted by the author of this article.
No Americans are being held at Camp Delta. Only non-US citizens.
Only Bad Guys, in fact...
John Walker Lindh, the so-called "American Taliban", was given a defence attorney and brought before an independent civilian court. Camp Delta’s "enemy combatants", on the other hand, have to endure indefinite detention without charge or trial and no access to legal counsel or any court.
We'll let 'em go when the war's over. Honest!
Hanging over them is the possibility of unfair trials, military tribunals with restricted rights of defence, no independent appeals and the threat of the death penalty.
They could even be attacked by sea gulls!
It stinks.
Whoa! Stinkeeeee!
And that’s why Amnesty International plans to make its point - on the streets of London dressed in orange boiler suits.
Oh, how comely! How chic!
The journey from the Twin Towers to Guantanamo Bay has been a disastrous one — from an international atrocity to an international disgrace. It is a massive own goal in the war on terror and its sinister consequences are likely to haunt the world for years.
Ummm... It's a warehouse where they stick Bad Guys.
But it is not just Guantanamo Bay that is so worrying.
"But wait! There's more!"
Since September 11 the USA has used its over-arching "war on terror" as an alibi to create a parallel justice system to detain, interrogate, charge or try suspects under the "laws of war".
More lies.
In mainland USA people have already been held under military procedures as "enemy combatants’. For example, Jose Padilla - the so-called Dirty Bomber - has been held for more than a year in solitary confinement at a naval prison in South Carolina. He is imprisoned without charge, trial or access to his lawyer or family. Padilla, a former Chicago gang member, was arrested after flying back into the US from the Middle East where he had, according to officials, been plotting to use a bomb packed with radioactive waste on the US. This is a virtually unprecedented suspension of the fundamental rights of a US citizen in US custody — not to mention a violation of international law.
"International law" doesn't apply to domestic issues. That's why they call it "international." Letting someone with an intent to set off dirty booms in the country walk free after he was ratted out by the Numbah 3 guy in a major international terrorist organization would be the absolute height of stoopid.
In other countries people in the hands of US forces are seemingly classified as "enemy combatants" simply if Donald Rumsfeld’s Defense `Department says they are. In Iraq as many as 10,000 people are being held, most without any legal process.
Those'd be the guys with the RPGs, right? And it ain't even elk season...
Beyond the high media visibility of Guantanamo Bay there also appears to be a shadowy network of "war on terror" detention sites. At the US air base at Bagram in Afghanistan, for example, former inmates have spoken of a regime of forced stripping, hooding, blindfolding with blacked-out goggles, 24-hour lighting, sleep deprivation and prolonged restraint in painful positions.
Life's tough when you're caught with a carload of explosives, ain't it?
As with Guantanamo Bay, Amnesty International is not allowed into Bagram and not even the Red Thingy Cross has had access to all prisoners there.
The poor guys can't even call out for pizza. Or felafel. Or whatever the hell it is they eat...
Meanwhile, there are rumours of other prisons — on island military bases or in embassy buildings. These are unconfirmed, but the US already admits to holding people at "undisclosed locations".
They're called "undisclosed" because we don't tell you where they are. We know, though.
Frighteningly, what we are seeing is the almost day-by-day erosion of the USA’s commitment to human rights.
Interesting concept: the erosion of "human rights" in defense of human liberty. Obviously the two are no longer the same thing.
Where once the world might have looked to America for inspiration, Bush’s America is now actively undermining the international system for human rights protection.
Oderint dum metuant, bud.
On other issues the trend is the same — America ripping up the rulebook. The US is now by far the most active opponent of the new International Criminal Court, a court that the US should be celebrating as a historic attempt to deter and punish genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Instead it has embarked on a campaign of bullying weaker countries into agreeing exemptions for US personnel.
A court that was conceived as a toy for Belgian lawyers to play with...
Next week the slogans of the protestors will be mixed — anything from anti-war messages on Iraq, opposition to "Star Wars" defence projects, environmental objections to America’s gas-guzzling economy and protests at its trade policies. But one thing unites these voices. A belief that the United States has strayed way off course and forgotten its own traditions of supporting human rights and fundamental liberties.
Either that or we see them differently from whoever wrote this at the Mirror. This wasn't John Pilger, was it?... No. It's still too rational for him.
Crucially, Bush protests will also test our own government’s commitment to freedom of speech and legitimate dissent in Britain. This month a court controversially ruled that police use of terrorism powers to arrest peaceful protestors at an arms fair in Docklands, East London was reasonable. Why are ordinary people with a point of view on the arms industry considered a threat to the nation?
Probably because they represent a threat to the day-to-day business of running the national defense...
Mr Bush’s three-day trip to Britain is a high-level visit with all of the pomp and ceremony of any such occasion. However, the right to have your say is a proud British tradition and the government should see to it that policing during President Bush’s visit is done with a light touch. There should be no "exclusion zones" and Mr Bush should not be protected from protests. Four years ago protestors during the visit of Chinese President Jiang Zemin had flags and banners ripped from their hands. Then the Metropolitan Police behaved in a way more reminiscent of the Chinese secret police than the friendly British bobby. This time let’s hear it for peaceful, good-humoured free expression. Taking to the streets to protest during George Bush’s visit will be pro-American and pro-human rights.
How long before the bricks start flying?
Exercising your legitimate right to make an ass of yourself protest is a core American — and British — value. It’s what makes me proud to protest.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 3:04:52 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why? Because after almost three years of President Bush’s "war on terror" many would argue that the world is now a more dangerous and divided place than it was immediately after 9/11.

Yeah, especially if you work for Al Queda.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/18/2003 15:41 Comments || Top||

#2  I fully support the rights of these jerks to say what ever they want. But I just ask that they ask themselves what would happen to them if they protested in the streets of Saddam's Bahgdad. Or the Taliban's Kabul if those nations still had their former misrulers and were protesting those governments policies. Thes protesters should ask themselves just what the United States would do if it were truely as barbaric and unconcerned about human rights as they suggest. These prisoneers would of been shot out of hand. I admit I have some problems with Camp X-Ray, but I'd be willing to bet it one damn sight better than the prisons on the other side of the fence at Gitmo
Posted by: Cheddarhead || 11/18/2003 17:13 Comments || Top||

#3  I hope the Prez wears a

"He Hate Us" Jersey.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:50 Comments || Top||

#4  The POW situation in Korea was a total disaster, but these release the prosiners so they can fight again dudes prove that even that episode could have been worse.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:05 Comments || Top||

#5  Katie lost me when she said 26 months is almost three years. This exaggeration of this basic fact set the tone for the rest of the article. BS!
Is Kate going to a wear beard with her orange suit?
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/18/2003 21:13 Comments || Top||

#6  Brilliant post
Posted by: Lucky || 11/19/2003 1:06 Comments || Top||


Nom Anor Chomsky’s policy
From Oliver Kamm...
If Bush’s approach to foreign policy is progressive, what of his critics’?

The answer is inadvertently provided by the cover story of this week’s New Statesman (link requires subscription, which as I don’t recommend such a course I won’t bother providing). It is a long extract from Noam Anor’s Chomsky’s latest book, entitled Hegemony or Survival. The book will be published later this month and I have it on order, but even on this sample I can recognise certain longstanding qualities of Anor’s Chomsky’s work.

Anor Chomsky approvingly cites comparisons of Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive war to the Japanese rationale for the attack on Pearl Harbour, and of the liberation of Iraq to "the ’crimes against the peace’ for which Nazi leaders were indicted at Nuremberg." Leave aside the extravagance of the rhetoric and note the intellectual torpor. There are strong arguments in an international order peopled by terrorist groups and rogue states for being prepared to launch pre-emptive war, but they were redundant to the case for invading Iraq. The Anglo-American liberation of Iraq was grounded in Saddam’s defiance of the cease-fire terms that obtained at the end of the first Gulf War. He violated UN Security Council Resolution 687, which codified those terms, and 16 others; his overthrow was an assertion of the integrity of international law in an anarchic world order. Chomsky deals with these pertinent historical data by not mentioning them.
That’s one way to deal with facts if you are an LLL moonbat.
Moreover, they’re not the only things that Chomsky omits to mention. In what is a lengthy essay denouncing the administration for its Iraq policy, he mentions not once — he does not even allude to — the character of Saddam’s regime. This is not a pedantic criticism, for Chomsky himself states:
Those who are seriously interested in understanding the world will adopt the same standards whether they are evaluating their own political and intellectual elites or those of official enemies.
Precisely. We may thus draw our own conclusions about a man touted by his disciples as an exemplar of moral clarity, and who has — in this article at least — literally nothing to say about mass graves, Halabja, the Kurds, the Marsh Arabs, or the torture chambers run by Saddam and his dynasty. Clearly I ought to wait to read Chomsky’s book in full before making a definitive judgement. But I have read a lot of his political works — indeed, I believe I’ve read all of them, or at least those that are in book form — and the characteristic I would most readily identify in him is a pervasive moral obtuseness that often degenerates into mere sophistry. Take, for example, his arguments about Bosnia a decade ago. This extract is taken from his book The Prosperous Few and the Restless Many (1994), in which he dismisses the idea of western military intervention:
It’s not only a moral issue — you have to ask about the consequences, and they could be quite complex. What if a Balkan war were set off? One consequence is that conservative military forces within Russia could move in... At that point you’re getting fingers on nuclear weapons involved. It’s also entirely possible that an attack on the Serbs, who feel that they’re the aggrieved party, could inspire them to move more aggressively in Kosovo, the Albanian area. That could set off a large-scale war, with Greece and Turkey involved. So it’s not so simple. Or what if the Bosnian Serbs, with the backing of both the Serbian and maybe even other Slavic regions, started a guerrilla war? Western military ’experts’ have suggested it could take a hundred thousand troops just to more or less hold the area. Maybe so.

So one has to ask a lot of questions about consequences. Bombing Serbian gun emplacements sounds simple, but you have to ask how many people are going to end up being killed. That’s not so simple.
There could scarcely be a starker illustration — morally, politically and intellectually — of the difference between President Bush and Professor Chomsky. Bush analyses political conditions carefully before alighting on a course founded on moral principle and strategic necessity. Chomsky abjures analysis in favour of a catechism taken from the most reactionary counsels of pessimism about the limits of state action. And get this: just like the Douglas Hurds and Laurence Eagleburgers of Anglo-American diplomacy, Chomsky founds his argument on a series of predictions that turned out to be utter rubbish. (The only exception was that of course Serbia did eventually mount a campaign of aggression against Kosovar Albanians — but so far from being driven to it by western intervention, she was stopped abruptly by the same force.)

Whereas President Bush is a genuine realist — one who recognises the ideological component in foreign policy and the power of ideas — Chomsky is representative of the handwringing, know-nothing Foreign Office orthodoxy that abdicated moral responsibility on the part of this country in the early 1990s, with horrifying results. Reactionary and conservative in temperament, restricted in political vision, Chomsky is clearly no match for the acuity and intellect of the Commander-in-Chief, and his defenders on both sides of the Atlantic should cease to present him as such.

Chomsky at least appears to be aware of the vulnerability of his reputation even among his admirers. Take a closer look at the link to the Amazon page for Chomsky’s new book. The dust jacket bears the legend, which one can’t be around a Chomsky fan for long without hearing:
"Arguably the most important intellectual alive" - The New York Times
This very old quotation from the newspaper of record is in fact truncated. The full quotation reads as follows:
Arguably the most important intellectual alive, how can he write such nonsense about international affairs and foreign policy?
I’ve added the emphasis, because I think you will agree that the elision of the italicised passage does subtly change the meaning of the sentence. I know the full quotation because Chomsky reproduces it — with that false sense of self-deprecation intended to insinuate "See how the frightened reactionary press treats one as brilliant as I when its interests are threatened" — in a now out-of-print book from the early 1990s, Terrorizing the Neighbourhood: American Foreign Policy in the Post-cold War Era. Let me say this straight. Chomsky has allowed a shortened quotation to grace his latest tome on international affairs and foreign policy that in context says the opposite of the message he wishes the reader to infer.
Chemsky's one of those guys who shouldn't have quit his day job. He had some interesting observations on linguistics, but once he got his barking moonbattery charged he seems to have forgotten about it. I guess it's more fun to bask in the adulation of undergraduates than it is to continue to delve into the structure of language and languages. Doing so probably takes one too close to the subject of semantics. From there it's a short step to logic, if-then-else thinking, cost-benefit analysis, and hard drugs. You end your days in a gutter, clutching a hairless Barby doll with a needle in your arm, muttering "Rosebud"...
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 1:57:01 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gotta hand it to ol' Noam-a-toad. If it wasn't for his habit of standing up and gesticulating wildly, people at parties would be saying "You're a what, now? A link-list?"
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 14:52 Comments || Top||

#2  Damn Atrus.. now that's cold. wish I wasn't such a slow typist.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:51 Comments || Top||


Italian group backs Iraq terrorists fighters
Those same "fighters" are the ones who murdered nearly 20 good Italians in that suicide bombing in Nasiriyah.
A group of Italian anti-war militants is raising funds to support the armed Iraqi resistance, the BBC has learned. The discovery comes as Italy mourns 19 men killed in a suicide attack in Iraq last week.
"Anti-war militants," gotta love the Beeb ...
The "Antiimperialista" organisation’s internet campaign asks people to send "10 Euros to the Iraqi resistance".
The same people behind that "resistance" plan on implementing the sha’riah across Italy and this time it won’t just be crucifixes that they want to take down.
They say they have collected 12,000 euros ($14,165) in the past eight weeks and admit the money used could be used to buy weapons.
Not that they mind, of course ...
The Antiimperialistas are a group of European anti-war and anti-globalisation supporters.
So that’s where all of the anarcho-kiddies come from ...
They are currently organising an anti-war demonstration in Italy next month, and it remains to be seen whether news of the fund-raising activities will deter more moderate anti-war activists from attending.
I somehow doubt that it will...
The organisation’s Italian branch says the money will be given to an Iraqi resistance group known as the Iraqi Patriotic Opposition. Independent Iraqi sources in London say the leaders of this group have a long history of association with the Baath party and are now back in Iraq supporting the armed resistance.
Funny how all these anti-imperialists didn’t bat an eye when Sammy tried to annex Kuwait ...
The Italian spokesman of the antiimperialistas, Moreno Pasquinelli, says the money collected so far is in an Italian bank account. Mr Pasquinelli said it would be taken to Iraq in January. He was candid when asked about raising money for the Iraqi Patriotic Opposition which says it actively supports military resistance. "Its not our affair how they use this money. If they want to use it to print papers for example, or to buy weapons in order to fight for the Iraqi independence," he said. "We support the armed struggle™ in Iraq. our money is to help them, it doesn’t matter to us if they use it buy weapons, Kalashnikovs, or medicines for people." When asked to confirm if the money raised could be used to buy weapons he admitted: "Yes they could, and why not?"
It’s only American blood, after all ...
The Italian Interior Ministry refused to comment, saying the matter was with the security services.
Who will hopefully arrest said individuals shortly ...
Lucio Malan, a senator from the governing Forza Italia Party, was shocked to hear about the campaign. "The first word that comes to my mind is shame and horror," he told BBC Radio Four’s Today programme. "They are raising money against people (Italian troops) who are defending the peace, the security of the people of that country. They have not killed or wounded anyone in that country they are helping to take away unexploded bombs." He said the group’s activities "collecting money to give it outspokenly to terrorist groups" was certainly illegal in Italy.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/18/2003 12:26:24 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Folks, stuff like this is happening in every country... but quietly. There are people collecting cash left and right for various terrorist causes around the world. I'd love to see some statistics on the amount of money flowing west to east, and to some specific countries in particular: Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 1:14 Comments || Top||

#2  So would I,Rafe.It would also be helpfull to know who and where.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:44 Comments || Top||

#3  You say your anti-war but want to send money for the purchase weapons that results in the killing of your own countrymen? A little contradictory, no?
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:38 Comments || Top||

#4  A little contradictory, no?

Logic tree by R. Goldberg -- don't ask 'em to explain it to you; you won't like it...
Posted by: snellenr || 11/18/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#5  Jarhead.... it's like J. Taranto sez.

"They're not anti-war they're just on the other side."
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#6  Paging Jack Ryan, Junior, a service call for Jack Ryan, Junior ...
Posted by: Steve White || 11/18/2003 21:40 Comments || Top||


Great White North
Chretien to hang it up next month
Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien said Tuesday he would retire on Dec. 12, after a decade in power, and make way for his successor and long-time rival Paul Martin.
G'bye. Have a nice retirement. Give our regards to Yellowknife.
Chretien's last years in office were increasingly marked by a power struggle with Martin, who last week was elected as the new leader of the governing Liberal Party. Chretien sacked Martin in June 2002 as finance minister for plotting against him.
"Yar! Deep-laid plots™, is it? Well, I'll show him!"
"We have agreed that Dec. 12 will be the date when the new government will be sworn in," Chretien told reporters in Ottawa after the two men met for 45 minutes to discuss the transition of power. "I offer him my best wishes and good luck and I will observe from the sidelines," said the 69-year-old prime minister, who took power in November 1993.
Or as Davy Crockett would have said, "I am going to Yellowknife, and you can go to Hell!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 14:42 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Good riddance.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/18/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Adieu Cretin!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 17:18 Comments || Top||

#3  So long, you minor league Frog.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 17:29 Comments || Top||

#4  Good-bye! Hope the door knocks you down the stairs on the way out!
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 18:19 Comments || Top||

#5  Sigha Nooooooraaaa

Write when you get honest work.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:19 Comments || Top||

#6  I can't believe that half-a** frog puke is at all welcomed in the W. Provinces. I spent about 2 months in Edmonton a while back, and they couldn't STAND the thieving POS. Most of them grumbled that they should secede from the quebec/ottawa mob and join the Union.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 20:41 Comments || Top||

#7  I guess there is a God.

May you be reviled for the legacy you leave.

And Canada: Application is dirt simple: See the Secretary of State. If the government signs off on it, it is only a matter of waiting.
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 21:39 Comments || Top||

#8  Yellowknife should refuse him entry. It's kinda a cool town. Cretien should go to Quebec. May bees pee upon him.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 22:02 Comments || Top||

#9  as the fabulous Mark Steyn revealed, Chretien was 6 months away from becoming a billionaire, thru secretive TotElfFina deals in Iraq... if only the US hadn't invaded. Socialist and Islamic "world peace" is called "personal enrichment" in the US
Posted by: alzaebo || 11/18/2003 23:40 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Indian elephants unwind at camp
EFL
Working elephants in India’s southern Tamil Nadu state have begun a month of relaxation at a holiday camp. The government-sponsored camp in the Mudumalai sanctuary is aimed at rejuvenating more than 80 elephants belonging to various temples and individual owners.
Stay with me on this...
Tamil Nadu is the second southern state to introduce annual holidays for working elephants. The decision to provide rest for the elephants was announced by chief minister J Jayalalitha. It was prompted by the recommendations of a government team that studied the upkeep of elephants in Kerala, which employs hundreds of elephants for temple festivals. Concern for the animals has been in focus following increasing attacks by these elephants on humans. At least four people have been killed in such attacks in Kerala in recent months.
The article then describes the elephant rest camp (they get cooked rice) and then...
There is also a unit of five commando elephants to tackle rogues.
Just when you think the world can’t get stranger...

Elephants have a habit of occasionally going nutty. It's called pesth. Doesn't seem to be tied with the mating process or anything — they just wake up on the wrong side of the bed one morning and trample somebody. They feel real sorry about it later.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 11/18/2003 2:51:03 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Airborne!
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 7:45 Comments || Top||

#2  If I remember right,they use the commando's to capture,control,and corral the rogues.Pretty good documentary.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 8:11 Comments || Top||

#3  Do the commando elephants have snake tattoos on their trunks?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 9:45 Comments || Top||

#4  Sounds like Ba-bar to me... I suspect the "commando" elephants are really Special Forces, though, since they're responsible for "hearts and minds".
Posted by: snellenr || 11/18/2003 10:16 Comments || Top||

#5  "Commando elephants?"

What's this, the Carthaginian Special Forces?
Posted by: Mike || 11/18/2003 10:37 Comments || Top||

#6  Excellent memory, reasonable brain, good endurance, motivated.... hell throw some body armor on these guys and they're good to go.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 12:07 Comments || Top||

#7  Elephants have a habit of occasionally going nutty.
They also get drunk. Really, they eat melons with a high sugar content that ferment in their stomachs and produce alcohol. Big problem in Africa, the elephants get high and trample down village huts (and villagers) to get at the melons. Humm, get drunk, get rowdy, tear up the village, they are Special Forces!
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 12:24 Comments || Top||

#8  Steve, I recall reading an interview with a guy who was one of the last "Great White Hunters". He commmented that the most dangerous beast in Africa is a bull elephant with a hangover.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 11/18/2003 12:56 Comments || Top||

#9  Drunk Elephants? So the Hyenas get high on crack and cackle like a banshee? And the border runners are the cheetahs? And the lions the cartel?

Wait, did I just make " The Lion King: Ghetto Style"?
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:11 Comments || Top||

#10  Excellent memory, reasonable brain, good endurance, motivated.... hell throw some body armor on these guys and they're good to go.

Been tried. The problem is they tend to lose control once they've been wounded, and end up being more of a danger to your own people.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 13:27 Comments || Top||

#11  RC Yeah when you're hurtin all the primates look alike.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 13:54 Comments || Top||

#12  RC Yeah when you're hurtin all the primates look alike.
That's true for a lot more than just elephants. Have I mentioned I have a chronic pain problem????and Uncle Sam sent me to school to learn all about Espionage, Sabotage, and Subversion? and that I hate politicians, lawyers, and government bureaucrats??? Just wanted to make that clear...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 14:36 Comments || Top||

#13  OP, meet my buddy Rush...
Posted by: john || 11/18/2003 20:30 Comments || Top||


MIP leader slams militant ban
The chief patron of the newly-banned Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan, Allama Ali Sher Hyderi, said on Monday the government’s prohibition of religious organisations will not serve the government’s purpose.
"Nope. Nope. Won't do it..."
Talking to reporters on Monday evening at the Madrassa Jamia Hyderi Luqman, which is operated by the banned organisation, he said the only solution to sectarian tension was dialogue among warring groups, which the government is avoiding. He said his organisation would announce its new strategy within a week, but added the creation of a new organisation was not being considered.
"What do you think, Mahmoud? The bushy handlebar or the Hitler look?"
"What's the matter with the moustaches we got now, boss?"
"They ain't false."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:57 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'll try to find out who controls the parliment seat that Azam Tariq held before he was killed, if he has been replaced with someone from a different party, it might mean the government no longer needs the SSP
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/18/2003 3:01 Comments || Top||

#2  So they're banned, the Chief Patron is named and interviewed, and the Madrassah he/they run is named? Any reason why the jugs not full of these asshats tomorrow? Oh yeah, this is Pakland....my naivete, sorry
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:32 Comments || Top||


Shia leaders vow to challenge ban on TIP
Shia leaders on Monday vowed to challenge ban on the Tehrik-e-Islami Pakistan (TIP) and would continue protest till the release of TIP chief Allama Sajid Ali Naqvi. Processions of Martyrdom for Hazrat Ali in the city turned into protest rallies against Mr Naqvi’s arrest. The protesters demanded Mr Naqvi’s release and the lifting of the ban on TIP, a member party of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA). Shia leader Allama Abbas Ali Naqvi said, “The government should not test our patience or we will be forced to mobilise against the rulers who are playing in the hands of the US and secular forces”.
"You better quit picking on us, or you're gonna get it!"
Shia leader Syed Tanveerul Kazim said, “We have decided to go to the court against the TIP ban, the sealing of its offices, Mr Naqvi’s arrest and raids on Shia activists’ homes”. Maulana Shabbir Haideri said, “The TIP is a political force which took part in elections under the MMA banner and now it is part of a very effective opposition in the country’s politics. Yet the administration arrested its chief for his alleged involvement in the murder of Millat-e-Islamia former chief Allama Azam Tariq which is a great injustice,” Ali Athar Naqvi said, “Shia women will protest on November 18 (today) in Multan and their protest will continue till Mr Naqvi’s release, opening of TIP offices”. Ghulam Shabbir Jafari said, “The MMA should refuse to talk to the government as a protest against the arrest of the head of its allied political party to save its protest from sectarian colour”.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:50 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wait a minute -- Shia WOMEN?? You mean they are going to let the women Breeding stock out of the house and unsupervised!! Could lead to honor being broken and you know what that means.
Posted by: SamIII || 11/18/2003 14:41 Comments || Top||


Jamaat Al Daawa regrets being put on watch list
Jamaat Ad-Dawa, which was put on the watch-list of monitored organisations by the government after banning three sectarian and militant organisations on Monday, said it was not involved in any kind of sectarian or negative activities in the country.
"Who? Us? Pshaw!"
In charge of public relations in Al Dawa’s Peshawar Zone, Mian Muhammad Asif, told Daily Times on Monday that one could not cite a single incident of Al Dawa’s involvement in sectarian or other anti-state activities. “There arose no question of banning the Al Dawa like the other three banned by the government,” he said. He said they feared no threat of any ban from the government as their activities were transparent, positive and in the public interest. “We are a welfare organisation and working on various projects in health, education, provision of clean drinking water, advancing financial help to orphans and families of those martyred in jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan,” he said.
"Shucks, we even extend our assistance in getting them martyred!"
“Pakistan is our identity and we are bound to protect its dignity and solidarity at all costs,” he said. “Islam is the basis of our enmity and friendship and we are ready to give any kind of sacrifice for this cause.” Mr Asif said Al Dawa was running two well equipped Taiba hospitals and, one each at Muredkey and Muzaffar, to provide free of cost medical cover and medicine to patients. The hospitals equipped with out patients department, surgical, eye, dental and orthopaedic medical facilities where hundreds of poor patients were being provided medical assistance free of charge. Besides this, he said, 51 dispensaries had been set up at various parts of the country where medical cover could be given to the needy patients.
"And we run refuges for baby ducks at 12 sites nation-wide..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:46 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Jamaat-ut-Dawa was banned when it was Lashkar-e-Taiba. The Islamofascist, Inter-Services Intelligence agency needs these jihadis for Kashmir operations.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 11/18/2003 2:39 Comments || Top||


Bugti dacoits kidnap two policemen, kill one
"Yar! We be Bugtis! Who be ye, stranger?"
Outlaws who kidnapped four policemen from Baskit police picket near Kandh Kot on Monday night killed a policeman when he resisted, police quoted one of his three injured colleagues as saying. Assistant Sub Inspector Nazeer Chandio succumbed to his injuries in the custody of the dacoits, said Constable Ghulam Yaseen, who escaped and managed to reach his police station despite his injuries.
"Ow! Ow! Ow! Feet, don't fail me now!"
Constable Yaseen and three other constables were on a routine patrol when a group of 15 armed outlaws, believed to be Bugti tribesmen who had been hiding in a graveyard, opened fire on the policemen.
"Yar! It's da coppers! Get 'em, boys!"
A gunfight ensued.
That was unexpected?
The dacoits managed to overpower the constables and seized their rifles.
"Gimme them guns!"
They left Constable Yaseen wounded in serious condition, but he was able to reach the police station. The others constables were still in the custody of the outlaws.
"What're we gonna do with 'em, Mahmoud?"
"Yar! We'll hold 'em fer ransom!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:40 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So, these are obviously Baskit cases.

Those damn Bugtits, again. BTW, what the heck is a dacoit?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 8:29 Comments || Top||

#2  Carpet Cleaning company, I believe. Do nice work on draperies too ;-)
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:37 Comments || Top||

#3  A member of an armed gang, specifically in India.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dacoit
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 9:50 Comments || Top||

#4  A dacoit is a bandido with a turban. Nasty critters...
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 10:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Of course, don't confuse them with Thugs; a completely different group of banditos that are probably extinct.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 10:25 Comments || Top||

#6  Assistant Sub Inspector?

A little top-heavy in the TO, huh guys?
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Mojo, subs are big! Any sub inspector needs an assistant. My only question is how did they get a sub into that desert? I know Bugtis are famous for stealing anything that's not firmly secured to an immovable object, but a sub?????

They don't need constables, they need the 101st in Bradleys, with authorization to waste graveyards. The only people that might complain are people that shouldn't be there anyway...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 14:43 Comments || Top||


Lahori brought to Lahore jail
Well, that sounds like the appropriate place to put him...
Police escorted Akram Lahrori and Hafiz Shoaib Ahmed, members of the banned Lashkar-e-Jhangvi group, to Lahore from Karachi on Monday for investigations in several criminal cases. They were brought over on flight number PK-304 that landed at Allama Iqbal International Airport in the afternoon. Defence Assistant Superintendent of Police Kamran Khan confirmed he received the two at the airport and took them to Kotlahpat Jail. Sources said they were being questioned in Chungh Investiation Centre. A court in Karachi on Saturday sentenced them both to death for the murder of Ramzan Ali, owner of the Iranian Tea Company.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:36 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Hashmi’s bail, habeas corpus pleas rejected
The Rawalpindi bench of the Lahore High Court (LHC) on Monday dismissed a habeas corpus petition against the arrest of Javed Hashmi, president of the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy, and also rejected his bail application.
"Put him in the Number 12 dungeon, Mahmoud!"
"Yer honor! Not... not... the Number 12 dungeon!"
While announcing the short order, Justice Mansoor Ahmed said the petition was no longer relevant as the registration of the first information report (FIR) against Mr Hashmi, his arrest and physical and judicial remand were executed in accordance with the law. The judge said the bail application for release of the accused could be filed in the trial court. The Islamabad Police arrested Mr Hashmi on October 29 and lodged an FIR against him for sedition, provoking the public against government, defaming the armed forces, forgery and abetment.
"What forgery? It was just a few passports!"
The ARD president is currently in Rawalpindi’s Adiala Jail on judicial remand.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:25 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


MMA gives govt one month to accept demands
The top leadership of the Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) has decided to give one month to the Pervez Musharraf government to accept its demands, threatening otherwise to begin a countrywide campaign against the government.
What've they been running all this time?
The decision was taken at a three-hour meeting of central leaders of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal at Allama Shah Ahmed Noorani’s house late Monday night. Maulana Noorani presided over the meeting. The MMA leaders also said they did not accept the ban on three religious outfits and demanded an immediate end to it. The MMA meeting said the Musharraf government had just one month to present a package of constitutional amendments and the Legal Framework Order in the National Assembly — which they earlier discussed with the government. A nine-member committee has been set up for the impending anti-government campaign under the chairmanship of Maulana Samiul Haq. Members of the committee have been taken from MMA’s component parties and include Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, Liaqat Baloch, Pir Ijaz Hashmi, Shabbir Abu Talib, Abdul Gafoor Hayderi, Senator Gul Nasib Khan, Mufti Yar Usmani and Abdul Jaleel Naqvi.
A high-level group of eye-rolling turbans if ever there was one...
Maulana Fazlur Rehman earlier accused the military and intelligence agencies of being responsible for sectarian trouble in the country because they were the creators of the sectarian groups. The maulana, who heads his own mob faction of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, went on to say. “First, the government bans a (sectarian) group, then permits its leader to contest elections, then uses his vote for the election of the prime minister of the establishment’s choice,” he said, clearly alluding to the recently assassinated Maulana Azam Tariq. “Then it bans the group again.”
Pretty slick, huh?
He said the MMA, of which he is secretary general, created sectarian harmony in the country and made efforts to end sectarianism. He described the ban on the religious groups as a “political tactic” mainly intended to turn people’s attention from the MMA’s struggle against the Legal Framework Order. “The rulers want to put this great struggle of ours in the background by banning one of the parties of the alliance,” he said, referring to the Tehrik-e-Islami Pakistan. He also warned of a situation like that in the former East Pakistan, charging, “The rulers want to break Pakistan again”.
Sometimes that doesn't seem like a bad idea, until I think about four nutbag principates, all furiously turning out jihadis...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:21 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Everytime Jamaati/Deobandi Islamofascists take to the streets, Legal Framework Order stock goes up 10 points. The MMA is a parasite club.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 11/18/2003 3:39 Comments || Top||


Iraq
Some Iraqis deciding that they’re better off with us then against us?
The inhabitants of the flashpoint Province of Anbar want greater say in running of Iraqi affairs, it has emerged. Residents of note in the city of Ramadi, the provincial capital, have written to Paul Bremer, the US civil administrator, asking to have their representatives on the interim national assembly which is replace the current Governing Council. The Coalition Provisional Authority which Bremer heads has announced that it will hand over power to the new elected assembly by June next year. The Anbar move is seen here as an overture to the CPA from a city which has been at the center of resistance to the US occupation forces. But a statement issued by the conference pledged full cooperation towards building “a modern and civil society in an independent and democratic Iraq” if the CPA heeds the province’s demands.
Sounds like some of the population that was not very positive on the concept of a new Iraq have started to realize that it’s happening with or without their input. They seem to be making the smart choice and accepting the inevitable instead of fighting it to the end and extending their suffering.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 11/18/2003 7:15:21 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We should try not to be overwhelmed by their gratitude. If S. Korea, the Phillipines, and France are any indication, they'll be bashing us at the U.N. as soon as their GDP rises.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 19:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Okay, But it just a drive-thru KFC.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:27 Comments || Top||

#3  Anonymous, of course... I give any nation we free about 3 or 4 decades after we liberate them before they turn on us. But who cares as long as they aren't trying to kill us. I couldn't care less about people who hate america unless they plan on do something about their hate... most are just talk and doing it because it's a fad. I expect it won't be long after Iraq is prosperous that they start forgetting what we did for them and start rewriting their history to show that they liberated themselves and we were just there for oil... but such is life.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 11/18/2003 19:42 Comments || Top||


U.S. trying to fix Iraq’s messy passport system
Somewhat EFL; New identity papers are a must, but I worry that they’re gonna rush this process and compromise security just to get the people to Hajj.
Cleaning up the passport market is a priority for the coalition because the current system is in complete disarray. Very few Iraqis actually had a passport, either because Saddam Hussein prohibited it or because of price. In the final years of his regime, Saddam invalidated two previous series of passports and came out with his own brand, so he could control who got one. Because of the switch, three different types of passports are now circulating, with little international cohesion on which is accepted at country borders. And inside the passports themselves, a visa ranges from a government stamp to some former official’s handwritten permission. Then, when Baghdad fell, stocks of blank passports that didn’t get bombed were looted, with no records left behind on how many might have been taken. At Iraq’s borders, many of the people crossing have no picture ID at all, and Iraq’s citizenry and U.S. military alike suspect that lack of control may be allowing foreign terrorists into the country. So getting control over Iraq’s passport system "is one of the most important things we can do," Reynolds said. "We’re trying to make it available, for the first time ever, for all Iraqis to travel freely. And Iraqis will only be able to travel freely if other countries have total faith in the new system."

A new passport is in the works that will eventually replace all the older versions. It will look a lot like a U.S. passport and will have the ability to hold a computer chip, said Gretchen Schuster, a U.S. adviser to the new Iraqi Ministry of Interior. When the new passport arrives, it will be controlled by the Ministry of Interior. It’s separate from a national ID system, which is also in the works. Passports will only be required for those wanting to travel outside the country. Until it’s issued, Iraqis are receiving interim travel papers, each good for one round trip out of Iraq. Since the war, about 10,000 Iraqis have asked for interim transit papers. But it’s not the average citizen — so far, most of those requests are tied to coalition official business, said Army 360th Civil Affairs battalion Capt. Kent Lindner.Getting a universally accepted passport going will help Lindner and other Civil Affairs soldiers who work directly with Iraqi civilians on a variety of rebuilding tasks. On a recent trip, Lindner took 10 Iraqis with the Ministry of Labor and Social affairs to Jordan to get them professional training. The group had interim papers. "That’s a pretty big thing to ask a neighboring country, ’Please allow this guy into your country,’ " Lindner said. "The customs guy is looking at this paper and saying that anyone with a color laser printer could replicate it."
I agree with the need for secure documentation. The Belgians have a new-model passport available, perhaps they would agree to work with the coalition on this. But then, the CPA gets all touchy-feely; read on...
On the other hand, they could hire a few Paks, and they could have the entire country supplied with two or three passports per citizen in a week...
Coalition efforts to get an Iraqi passport system up and running will face its first big test in February. That’s when an estimated 100,000 Iraqis want to make the Muslim Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Three years ago, just 25,000 Iraqis made the pilgrimage to Mecca. But after Saddam fell, Arab nations began advertising free or reduced fare Hajj trips on Iraqi TV and radio. The journey is seen as a must by both the coalition and Iraqis: travel was restricted under Saddam’s regime and the U.S. military doesn’t want to be seen in the same light. "For any good relationship with the Iraqi people they (the U.S. military) need to make that trip (the Hajj) happen," said Gen. Abdulkarim Ahmad, an adviser to the new Ministry of Immigration.
Yes, let’s be nice but let’s also watch who’s going home to Soddy--and then who comes back
Mosul Airport and Baghdad International Airport are the two main points of departure that an estimated 15,000 Iraqis would used to fly to Saudi Arabia for Mecca. Both airports have immigration offices for international travel but neither office is ready for civilian commercial traffic.
Gotta watch for those SAMs too...a planeload of the faithful getting shot down wouldn’t play well on Al-Jazeera
Those assessments are taking place now. In a recent trip to the Mosul Airport, Lt. Col. Edward Burley with 352nd Army Civil Affairs, who is advising the Ministry of Interior, checked out Mosul’s separate male and female immigration inspection rooms. "We’re seeing what sort of facilities will be available with just minor reconstruction, and what we can do to help people going on the Hajj, through passports or some sort of other pass system," Burley said.
Trust, but verify...please!
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/18/2003 4:35:24 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gotta watch for those SAMs too...a planeload of the faithful getting shot down wouldn’t play well on Al-Jazeera

I wouldn't put it past Al-Jazeera to shoot it down. Watch for some very well placed (as in planned ahead) video footage....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/18/2003 19:10 Comments || Top||

#2  I would like to see digitized fingerprints standard on all passports for travel into the US.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:32 Comments || Top||

#3  New identity papers are a must, but I worry that they’re gonna rush this process and compromise security just to get the people to Hajj.

Tough. Sacrificing security just to accomodate a religious custom doesn't make sense at this point in time. As soon as a workable, reliable, and secure system is in place, then the task of issuing passports can commence. Until then, they're just going to have to stay put. I'm sure Allah isn't going to strike dead people that can't make it for whatever reason (especially due to circumstances beyond their control).
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 21:15 Comments || Top||


The evidence of an Iraq/al-Qaida connection hasn't gone away
I think this might be the first time we've ever posted anything from Slate... Moderately EFL.
By Edward Jay Epstein
This month, I went to Prague to meet with Czech officials who had directly handled the pre-9/11 expulsion of a senior Iraqi diplomat, a case that would became known as the Prague Connection. Because it goes to the heart of the issue of whether Saddam Hussein might have played a role in the attack on the World Trade Center, this controversy has continued to rage, without any satisfying conclusion, for more than two years.
Most of what we've seen has been either ignored or obfuscated. Got any new info?
The background: On April 21, 2001, the CIA's liaison officer at the U.S. Embassy in Prague was briefed by the Czech counterintelligence service. The subject of the briefing was Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, the consul at Iraq's embassy in Prague.
Hey! We were just talking about him the other day — among others, anyway...
The reason there had been joint Czech-American interest in the case traced back to the December 1998 when al-Ani's predecessor at the Iraq Embassy, Jabir Salim, defected from his post. Salim said that he had been supplied with $150,000 by Baghdad to prepare a car-bombing of an American target, the Prague headquarters of Radio Free Europe. (This bombing never took place because Salim could not recruit a bomber.)
I told you Sammy's spies were particularly noted for ineptitude.
So when al-Ani replaced Salim at the Iraq Embassy in Prague in 1999, both the United States and the Czech Republic wanted him closely watched. The BIS handled the surveillance. Then, on April 8, 2001, a BIS watcher saw al-Ani meeting in a restaurant outside Prague with an Arab man in his 20s. A BIS informant in the Arab community had provided information indicating that the person with whom al-Ani was meeting was a visiting "student" from Hamburg—and one who was potentially dangerous.
That would be Muhammad Atta, of course...
On my trip, I spoke to Jan Kavan, who in 2001 was foreign minister and coordinator of intelligence. According to Kavan—who to my knowledge has not spoken publicly about this episode before—al-Ani had previously been spotted taking photos of the headquarters of Radio Free Europe. The restaurant meeting suggested that al-Ani might be recruiting someone to resume the bombing plot. Adding to the tension, the BIS lost track of the "student." So Kavan decided to act: He ordered al-Ani out of the Czech Republic.
"See ya. G'bye. Don't come back."
During the next 48 hours, as al-Ani prepared his hasty departure, the CIA liaison called both the BIS liaison and the Czech National Security Office for further details. Kavan's deputy, Hynek Kmonicek, arranged for al-Ani to exit via Vienna, Austria. As far as Kavan was concerned, the al-Ani problem was, if not resolved, then in the hands of American intelligence.
Golly. Thanks.
The issue re-emerged three days after the 9/11 attack when the CIA intelligence liaison was told by the BIS that the Hamburg "student" who had met with al-Ani on April 8 had been tentatively identified as the 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta.
Toldja so.
Since al-Ani was an officer of Saddam Hussein's intelligence (and diplomatic) service, this identification raised the possibility that Saddam might have had a hand in the 9/11 attack. It could also be potentially embarrassing, as Kavan pointed out, "if American intelligence had failed before 9/11 to adequately appreciate the significance of the April meeting." Kavan, in the newly created position of coordinator for intelligence, gave the FBI full access to the Czech side of the investigation. Two Czech-speaking FBI agents were allowed not only to sit in on the high-level task force evaluating the intelligence but to examine source material. If Atta was at the meeting, he could not have used his own passport to enter the Czech Republic, so the BIS assumed he had used a false identity and began checking through visa records for suspicious visitors in April, examining grainy videotapes from cameras at airports, bus stations, and game arcades. As the investigation was still in an early stage, the FBI had been asked to keep the identification of Atta secret, but within a week, the Prague connection was leaked to the press—from Washington.
Naturally. It happens too often to be accidental — and too often to let other countries feel really, truly comfortable allowing us close access.
On Sept. 18, 2001, the Associated Press reported, "A U.S. official... said the United States has received information from a foreign intelligence service that Mohamed Atta, a hijacker aboard one of the planes that slammed into the World Trade Center, met earlier this year in Europe with an Iraqi intelligence agent." CBS then reported that Atta had been seen with al-Ani.
At that point, the people the Czechs still had under surveillance prob'ly dropped off the face of the earth, at least those who may have known anything.
In Washington, the FBI moved to quiet the Prague connection by telling journalists that it had car rentals and records that put Atta in Virginia Beach, Va., and Florida close to, if not during, the period when he was supposed to be in Prague. The New York Times, citing information provided by "federal law enforcement officials," reported that Atta was in Virginia Beach on April 2, 2001, and by April 11, "Atta was back in Florida, renting a car." Newsweek reported that, "the FBI pointed out Atta was traveling at the time [in early April 2001] between Florida and Virginia Beach, Va.," adding, "The bureau had his rental car and hotel receipts." And intelligence expert James Bamford, after quoting FBI Director Robert Mueller as saying that the FBI "ran down literally hundreds of thousands of leads and checked every record we could get our hands on," reported in USA Today, "The records revealed that Atta was in Virginia Beach during the time he supposedly met the Iraqi in Prague."
But then...
All these reports attributed to the FBI were, as it turns out, erroneous. There were no car rental records in Virginia, Florida, or anywhere else in April 2001 for Mohamed Atta, since he had not yet obtained his Florida license. His international license was at his father's home in Cairo, Egypt (where his roommate Marwan al-Shehhi picked it up in late April). Nor were there other records in the hands of the FBI that put Atta in the United States at the time. Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet testified to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in June 2002, "It is possible that Atta traveled under an unknown alias" to "meet with an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague." Clearly, it was not beyond the capabilities of the 9/11 hijackers to use aliases.
Nor was it beyond their capabilities to have a couple dozen passports from half the countries in the world...
But just because Atta could have been in Prague did not mean that he met al-Ani there on April 8, 2001. Eyewitness identification can often be mistaken. It was known, however, that Atta had business in Prague prior to the 9/11 attack. Kmonicek, the deputy foreign minister, had found a paper trail of passport records showing that Atta had applied for a visa to visit the Czech Republic on May 26, 2000 in Bonn, Germany. Atta must have had business there, since he could have transited through the Czech Republic on Czech Air without a visa. Atta's business appeared to be extremely time sensitive and specific to May 30. When Atta learned in Hamburg that his Czech visa would not be ready until May 31, he nevertheless flew on May 30 to the Prague International Airport, where he would not be allowed to go beyond the transit lounge. Although a large part of this area is surveiled by cameras, he managed to spend all but a few minutes out of their range. After some six hours, he then caught a flight back to Hamburg. From this visaless round trip, Czech intelligence inferred that Atta had a meeting on May 30 that could not wait, even a day—and that whoever arranged it was probably familiar with the transit lounge's surveillance. Finally, the BIS determined that the Prague connection was not limited to a single appointment since Atta returned to Prague by bus on June 2 (now with visa BONN200005260024), and, after a brief wait in the bus station, disappeared for nearly 20 hours before catching a flight to the United States.
Slipped his tail, did he?
The Czechs reviewing these visits in retrospect further assumed that Atta's business in Prague was somehow related to his activities in the United States, given that large sums of laundered funds began to flow to the 9/11 conspiracy in June 2000, after Atta left Prague.
Ahhh... From where?
Even more ominous, if the BIS's subsequent identification of Atta in Prague was inaccurate, then some part of the mechanism behind the activities of hijacker-terrorists may have been based in Prague at least until mid April 2001. Czech intelligence services could not solve this puzzle without access to crucial information about Atta's movements in the United States, Germany, and other countries in which the plot unfolded, but it soon became clear that such cooperation would not be forthcoming. Even after al-Ani was taken prisoner by U.S. forces in Iraq in July 2003 and presumably questioned about Atta, no report was furnished to the Czech side of the investigation. "It was anything but a two-way street," a top Czech government official overseeing the case explained. "The FBI wanted complete control. The FBI agents provided us with nothing from their side of the investigation." Without those missing pieces—including cell phone logs, credit card charges, and interrogation records in the FBI's possession—the jigsaw puzzle remains incomplete.
So the Czechs remain in the dark, and the Feds continue to sit on al-Ani. I hope they're squeezing something out of him...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 15:07 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  While the political angle pales in comparison to the importance of national security, it is interesting to note that this may be the best evidence available to those who want to blame Bush for the intelligence failures that allowed 9/11 to happen (Gen. Clark was at it the other day -- why did he not make such interesting claims when he was on CNN?).

Unfortunately, presenting this evidence also tends to provide justification for taking down Sammy. I guess this stalemate is why all parties are so ambivalent about it.
Posted by: JAB || 11/18/2003 15:52 Comments || Top||

#2  Slate has a clear bias, but they leaven it with some common sense. Chris Hitchens' articles on Slate are almost always very good. Check out yesterday's article about the Turkey bombings.
Posted by: sludj || 11/18/2003 16:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Fred, I read a story about the assasination attempt on GHWB in Kuwait. If it was a true account then the Iraqis are some seriously bad spies.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:01 Comments || Top||

#4  It was probably the true account. Nepotism and political reliability were the weak point throughout Baathist society. You didn't get your job because of what you could do, but who you were. And the secret agent jobs were prestige positions, so the hoi polloi needn't apply.
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 21:05 Comments || Top||

#5  oh please, not this bs again, get this feeling that some of you ppl are more into conspiracies than I am

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20031115-0642.html
Posted by: Igs || 11/19/2003 2:54 Comments || Top||


U.S. kills ’foreign fighter’ on Iraq border
U.S. forces have killed a suspected "foreign fighter" who tried to cross the Iraqi border into Syria and have captured five others, U.S.-led coalition officials said Tuesday. "U.S. forces from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment prevented an illegal border crossing by a group of six suspected foreign fighters at the Syrian border Sunday evening," the Coalition Press Information Center said. "The group was attempting to flee Iraq into Syria." During their detention, one of the captured individuals attacked a U.S. soldier with a knife and was shot and killed, the coalition said.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 1:12:11 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  My suprise meter just burst into flames for some reason.
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:17 Comments || Top||

#2  What's that about don't bring a knife to a gunfight?

Oh. He hadn't heard that one. Sorry.
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 13:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Excellent! Now they're tryin' to get out to save their miserable hides....and we're still putting toe tags on 'em.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/18/2003 13:43 Comments || Top||

#4  Garry Owen!
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 14:20 Comments || Top||

#5  See what happens when you try to jump the turnstile?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 15:57 Comments || Top||

#6  I guess the one guy let the doorknob hit him in the ass - speaking metaphorically of course
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:27 Comments || Top||


IRON HAMMER/NAZI NAME TIE-IN BY MEDIA WANKERS
The U.S. military’s code name for a crackdown on resistance in Iraq was also used by the Nazis for an aborted operation to damage the Soviet power grid during World War II.
So what?
"Operation Iron Hammer" this week launched the 1st Armored Division’s 3rd Brigade into the roughest parts of Baghdad to ferret out the attackers who have killed scores of U.S. troops since Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was ousted in April. A Pentagon official said the name was chosen because of the "Old Ironsides" nickname of the 1st Armored Division. He was unaware of any connection to any Nazi operation. "Eisenhammer," the German for "iron hammer," was a Luftwaffe code name for a plan to destroy Soviet generating plants in the Moscow and Gorky areas in 1943, according to Universal Lexikon on the www.infobitte.de Web site. A researcher at Britain’s Imperial War Museum confirmed the existence of Eisenhammer. The Nazi’s long-range bombing operation was repeatedly postponed and was finally scrapped after an allied air assault destroyed many of the German planes on the ground in 1945, shortly before the defeat of Germany.
So it wasn't even actually used?
After it declared war on terrorism, U.S. officials changed the code name for its impending attack on Afghanistan to Operation Enduring Freedom. The original name, Operation Infinite Justice, was jettisoned amid fears that the Muslim world, already leery of U.S. intentions, would object on the basis of Koranic teachings that only God can provide infinite justice.
Eisenhammer, c’mon, how could we of missed that one....yes, a big plot by the U.S. to use old Nazi code names. What’s the point of this whole article? A deep cover plot by the Jooos to insult the Muslims by using old nazi operation code names?

There's just no pleasing some people, is there?
Posted by: JARHEAD || 11/18/2003 1:02:43 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I was kind of partial to "Operation Bitch Slap" myself...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 13:09 Comments || Top||

#2  Aaaaggghhhhhh the dreaded Moscow winter! Oh, wait... oops
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 13:10 Comments || Top||

#3  The US should stick to sports metaphors, they are less likely to have been used before.

I've always hated the name Operation Enduring Freedom, I understand how they meant it but it sounds like Freedom is something you endure, rather than enjoy.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 13:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Muslim brotherhood (modeled after 1920's facist leagues), arab nationalists (Nasser's young egypt), baathists (whose complete name was "Panarabic national-socialist party" IIRC) & paleostinians (grand mufti al-husseini and his relative Yasser Arafat) all have a long story of admiring and buddying with the nazi; "old nazi codenames" would not insult them, it would bring back pleasant flashbacks.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 13:14 Comments || Top||

#5  Stop using all these special names! Just call it a " WoT operation". What's so difficult about that?
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:14 Comments || Top||

#6  Winston Churchill personally assigned many operational names and approved most of the rest after seeing one named something like Operation Airy Ballet. Said he didn't want to have to tell parents that their kid had died in Operation Tittley Winks.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#7  Heck, if our sensitive lib media friends don't like old nazi code names, I think I got some good ones for them:

OPERATION IRON FIST FUCK / OPERATION JUST BECAUSE / OPERATION SODOMIZER / OPERATION INFINITE ASS WHOOPING / OPERATION REDNECK FURY
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 13:17 Comments || Top||

#8  Operation Ramithome...
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 13:18 Comments || Top||

#9  If this was named by the planners and not the politicians, chances are the words were chosen at random from lists.

Odd, isn't it, how the press will latch onto operation codenames that were once used by the Nazis in an obscure air operation while ignoring the ideological and philosophical connections in Arab politics.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

#10  Operation Éowyn's Sword
Operation Foe Hammer
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#11  Maybe it should have been called "Operation Falling Anvil".
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 13:24 Comments || Top||

#12  How about calling it "Operation Iraqi Smacky?"
Posted by: Tibor || 11/18/2003 13:26 Comments || Top||

#13  Operation:
Deep Hurting
Ass Churn
Gut Spill
Sphincter Torch
Spring Awakening
....take yer pick. D'oh! Forget that last one!
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/18/2003 13:59 Comments || Top||

#14  Tibor...LOL. Hilarious. Rooters is such crap. Gosh since we used the same name for an operation as the Nazis, we must BE Nazis. Wow, I'm glad they cleared that up.
Posted by: remote man || 11/18/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#15  Gee, if this is news, I guess we should avoid using colors like yellow and blue in our Homeland Security alerts, since the Germans used them for the invasion of France (Fall Gelb) and the Stalingrad offensive(Fall Blau), among other names.

Well, enough internet surfing. I better get back to work on Project Clusterf*ck.
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 14:10 Comments || Top||

#16  Obviously, reuters is keeping true to the 'Useful Idiots' description of the 'peace movement' and leftists, first popularized by Josef Stalin.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#17  In case your curious, the email to reuters is:

editor@reuters.com

I certainly just gave him a (non-obscene) block of commentary.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 11/18/2003 14:15 Comments || Top||

#18  Jarhead, very, very funny.

I would like to get double-bonus points for the operation names though. OPERATION CHOMKSY (you know it'll drive Chomsky crazy to know his name is being used that way), OPERATION ARAFAT (certainly confuse anyone as to where the operation is occuring until it happens), OPERATION SWINEHERD (Muslim's will probably dislike that one since it's the Yanks doing the herding...) OPERATION CHARMIN (don't squeeze, Americans will all know what this means and who is being wiped).
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#19  Not for nothing did Joseph Goebbels call himself minister of "propaganda and public enlightenment," rather than of propaganda alone. Propaganda is designed to persuade, to cause the uncommitted to change their views and adopt a different position.
"Enlightenment," better known as indoctrination, is designed to inform the already committed and strengthen their commitment; for example, by communicating the correct positions on specific issues and, especially, by alerting them to specific rhetorical devices and arguments to be used in demonizing enemies.
This piece, like most of Al Reuters output, is not therefore propaganda, but indoctrination, cuing the committed (in this case the Euro-bigot masses and their American fifth column) to a rhetorical tactic: that even vague and meaningless comparisons to the nazis are still an acceptable form of demonization.
This is just a pre-emptive smokescreen, but a very necessary one for the LLL, since their own positions have meaningful and obvious similarities to those of the nazis.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 11/18/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#20  I suspect the Nazis wouldn't have used the English words. Their operation was probably called "Eisenhammer".
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 15:55 Comments || Top||

#21  Personally, I'm looking forward to the full deployment of the Zionist Death RayTM and the commencement of Operation Finger of God!

First target: Arafish.
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 16:13 Comments || Top||

#22  We could always have cutie pie names for our ops in order to de-emphasize our very rude & barbarian like behavior ridding the world of assholes...the LLL media would probably warm up to OPERATION AGITATED ALLIGATOR or OPERATION OBSTINATE OSPREY. We could probably get the French Army on board w/a name like OPERATION PERSNICKITY PAPILLON or OPERATION FLAGRANT FROMAGE. The Ruskies would probably go ape-shit for OPERATION CAUSTIC COMMISAR......the possibilties are endless, maybe we haven't given this angle enough thought....
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 16:17 Comments || Top||

#23  Good idea, Jarhead. We could even get the LLL on board with this one simply by changing it to "Iron Hammer and Sickle."
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 11/18/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#24  Thanks JH for another expose of the Rooters philosophy. The writer starts by saying that the US used the same operation code word that the NAZIS used over 60 years ago. Then later says that the NAZIS didn't actually implement the plan. Then why file the "story"?
Reminds me of the farmer who bought a case of fly spray with the understanding that it also contained a sprayer. He sent a long scathing letter to the company complaining that they didn't fulfill that promise. He then ended the letter with "never mind I found the sprayer in the bottom of the crate".
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/18/2003 16:43 Comments || Top||

#25  Beats the hell out of Operation STALEMATE, one we actually used for the assault on Peleliu.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/18/2003 17:35 Comments || Top||

#26  We commence operation Reagan in five minutes.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 18:05 Comments || Top||

#27  Ooh--that's even better, Shipman!

The Zionist Death Ray will be demonstrated with the commencement of Operation Ronnie Ray Gun!
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||

#28  Have we already used Operation Tear of Their Heads and Shit Down Their Necks? Super Hose predicts that a certain Representative will point out that none of the operation names sound black enough.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:32 Comments || Top||

#29  you missed operation boot in yer ass
Posted by: jimmytheclaw || 11/19/2003 3:36 Comments || Top||


Iraqi Blogger Needs Your Help
Healing Iraq Blogger Needs Our Help:

Ghaydaa an Iraqi friend of mine living in the US has a brother in Baghdad who has been denied access to his family stores and property on Abu Nuwas street near the Palestine hotel because of the roadblocks placed to protect the NY times and Reuters offices. He desperately needs the income from renting these stores. He tried sueing the NY times at an Iraqi court in Karradah but with no success. Ghaydaa has been sending email and snail mail to the NY times for weeks and nobody even cared to reply. Here is a copy of the letter she sent to them:


Arthur Sulzberger

Chairman and Publisher

The New York Times

November 15, 2003

Dear Sir:

I am writing you on an issue of immediate concern.

My name is Ghayda Al Ali. While I am from Iraq, I am currently visiting the United States. As you can understand I am very interested in events back home. There is a most disturbing situation there which you should be aware of as your paper is an involved party.

My family has a property in the green zone in down town Baghdad on Abi-Nuas street. The New York Times rents the adjacent property. For several weeks now my brother Ali Al Ali has been denied automobile access to our property by security guards. Until two days ago we thought this was a coalition security measure. Now we known these guards are not coalition personal but are instead the private security force employed by your news paper.

The family property has two store fronts. Yesterday (Saturday November 15, 2003) my brother and two hired men were in one of the stores installing shelves. My brother lost his livelihood in the war and needs to open this store to make a living. His efforts were interrupted by several of the security guards employed by your paper. He was knocked roughly to the floor and threatened. Your guards pointed there AK-47 rifles and my brother and his work men and told them they would be shot if they did not leave immediately.

I feel sure if learned the United States Army was responsible an incident such as this you would feel obligated to publish the story and condemn the act.

In this his case I respectfully suggest you have an obligation to do somewhat more.

My family needs full use of its lawful property. This means no interference of any type to access to the building. Your guards also block access of potential customers to this business location. While mindful of the security requirements of your Baghdad employees I believe they do not completely supercede our legal right to use our property.

I hope this is a simple misunderstanding that you can correct quickly. My family hopes yet to have The New York Times as a good neighbor. I urge you to contact me or my brother quickly as an indication of your good faith. I can be reached at the email address ghaydaalali@yahoo.com Ask for Ghayda (pronounced Ride-dah). I will provide an email address for my brother upon hearing from you.

I will follow up this email with a letter to your office sent by United States Postal Service.

Please look into this matter quickly.

Sincerely,

Ghayda Al Ali

Please help my friend by sending as many copies of this letter to the morons at NY times until they notice and do something about it. If they want to be protected they should choose a safe building elsewhere and not block streets downtown and prevent Iraqis from using their properties by force. I am so indignated to hear about this and so should you be. Please help us do something about it.

Go to the November 18th entry and scroll down to: Help Ghaydaa
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/18/2003 12:52:21 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I had read that earlier and sent a msg to everyone at fox news about it. I'm gonna contact the NY post too... I think they would be interested. If you all have time spread the word. The NY Times attacks the actions of our military every day. Our military is trying to free 20 million people from oppresion and give them a better life. The NY Times is doing what they ACCUSE our military of doing but they are doing it out of pure greed. Economic motives and nothing more. They are hypocrites and they should pay for their disgusting actions. Illegaly destroying a hard working Iraqi's life becasue they want to be in a better position to get a story so they can sell more newspapers. Disgusting. I had stopped paying for the Times a long time ago so I can't boycott them anymore than I am but I can do what I can to get the word out.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 11/18/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#2  The NYT is, perhaps, invoking eminent domain again like they did for their new NYC building.

From a Michelle Malkin column dated July 18, 2003:

This week, it was revealed that the Times Company's development partner for the headquarters project has asked city officials for $400 million in federally-financed "Liberty Bonds." The federal program was meant for rebuilding in New York City's Sept. 11 disaster zone, not for subsidizing a private newspaper's long-planned palatial ambitions.

The background: While small business owners near Ground Zero in lower Manhattan struggled to pick up the pieces after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, all the midtown Manhattan fatcats at the Times had to do was throw a tantrum to obtain public funding for a new building. After the newspaper's executives threatened to move their workers out of town, city and state officials coughed up a vast tract of land on the edge of Times Square for a shiny, new 52-story headquarters.

One minor glitch: The land that government authorities proposed to give away — and the 11 buildings and 30 businesses located on it — wasn't theirs for the taking. No matter. The corporate welfare conspirators invoked two magic words: eminent domain.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/18/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#3  Hi, NYT, hypocritical biased piece of fish wrap.

If you think this is ironically funny, then how about this:

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage2.asp

They want to use 9/11 funds for a new building.

They should call the new building The New York Times and Gall.
Posted by: joe || 11/18/2003 13:44 Comments || Top||


Gooooooood Morning, Mesopotamia!
(Hey, don’t blame ME!)
Rich Galen is reporting from Iraq.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 11:51:43 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


And the Beat(ing) Goes On...
EFL & Team Spirit
U.S. fighter jets pounded suspected terrorists insurgent positions Tuesday in the largest bombardment of terrorists guerrillas
(I thought the zoo was elswhere? Go figure.)
in central Iraq since President Bush declared the end of major combat in May, the U.S. military said.
These asshats keep bringing this point up: "since President Bush declared the end of major combat." It is obvious what they are attempting to do. But they should know this: These same asshats who would like to betray us as loosing ground in Iraq are of the same fabric of reporters who believe we lost the war in Vietnam. Wrong. We may have pulled back from the battle in Vietnam, however we won the war. Vietnam was one slice of the larger historical landscape during the Cold War. And we one that war. So when we here the constant drum beat that Bush declared the end to major combat, just remember that this declaration one slice of history at that given point and time. This war is ours to win. And we will.
In northern Iraq, terrorists guerrillas detonated a roadside bomb, wounding two soldiers, the military said. On Monday, a U.S. civilian contractor was killed in an insurgent attack near Baghdad, the military said without elaborating.
God bless him.
Near Baqouba, 30 miles northeast of Baghdad, U.S. jets and Apache helicopter gunships Tuesday blasted abandoned buildings, walls and trees along a road where attacks have been so common that troops nicknamed it "RPG Alley" after the rocket-propelled grenades used by insurgents. Fighter-bombers dropped 500-pound bombs and tanks fired their 120mm guns at suspected ambush sites, the military said. F-16 fighter aircraft dropped two bombs Tuesday on terrorists insurgent targets near the town of Samara, about 60 miles north of Baghdad. On Monday, 4th Infantry Division soldiers also killed six known alleged terrorists insurgents in the Tikrit area as they pressed their search for a former Saddam deputy, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, who is believed to be orchestrating attacks.
Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, may you rot in Hell.

"Come out, come out, wherever you are!"
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/18/2003 11:00:22 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fighter-bombers dropped 500-pound bombs and tanks fired their 120mm guns at suspected ambush sites

Now we're getting 'Merkin on their asses. Recon by fire now.... setting up a free fire zone later.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#2  blasted abandoned buildings, walls, and trees
Expect to hear from Greenpeace about the trees any minute now
Posted by: AWW || 11/18/2003 12:44 Comments || Top||

#3  Near Baqouba, 30 miles northeast of Baghdad, U.S. jets and Apache helicopter gunships Tuesday blasted abandoned buildings, walls and trees along a road where attacks have been so common that troops nicknamed it "RPG Alley" after the rocket-propelled grenades used by insurgents. Fighter-bombers dropped 500-pound bombs and tanks fired their 120mm guns at suspected ambush sites, the military said.

Now I'm curious. Did they just expend ordnance on places that were empty? Why couldn't they have waited until nightfall, when the Saddam sympathizers would likely be slinking around these spots, and kill two birds with one stone by blowing apart the buildings AND the guerillas in one or two sorties/attacks?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 13:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Expect to hear from Greenpeace about the trees any minute now.
I demand that any Greenpeace 'volunteer' who wishes to protect trees in Iraq come personally and chain themselves to the tree they desire to protect.

Now all I need is for someone to hand out enough scorpion bait to paint every tree so occupied...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#5  In some cases, I expect we blasted sites we knew were empty, just to point out that we could. In others, I suspect we waited until the little white blogs appeared on the night vision cameras. Know what I mean, Vern?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#6  I lie that we are shooting folks again. It gives me a headache arguing about the treatment of prisoners. I vote that we take fewer of them.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:53 Comments || Top||


Omar, Iraqi Blogger hates UN, and others who helped Saddam
YOU OWE US AN APOLOGY
he posted this 11/17/03
I don’t know really know why Saddam’s regime lasted for over three decades, but I am sure as an Iraqi who survived that period that there’re no legal or moral justifications for it to remain. I was counting days and hours waiting to see an end to that regime, just like all those who suffered the cruelty of that brutal regime. It’s been really a disgrace chasing the world, the world of the 21st century, reminding it how incapable it was to aid the oppressed and to sue those who despised all the values of humanity. Throughout these decades I lost trust in the world governments and international committees. Terms like "human rights," "democracy" and "liberty", etc. became hollow and meaningless and those who keep repeating these words are liars... liars... liars. I hated the U.N and the security council and Russia and France and Germany and the Arab nations and the Islamic Conference. I’ve hated George Galloway and all those [who] marched in the millionic demonstrations against the war.
if only those people had half the brains and courage of you, Omar
It is I who was oppressed and I don’t want any one to talk on behalf of me;
I, who was eager to see rockets falling on Saddam’s nest to set me free, and it is I who desired to die gentlemen, because it’s more merciful than humiliation as it puts an end to my suffering, while humiliation lives with me reminding me every moment that I couldn’t defend myself against those who ill-treated me. What hurt me more and kept my wound bleeding was that they gave Saddam a tribune so the skinner can talk, and offered him a diplomatic representation almost all-over the world to broadcast his filthy propaganda and sprinkle Iraq’s wealth on his supporters. I really didn’t understand those countries demands to take away our misery. Did they really think that the sanctions were the cause?
... EFL

Rantburgers may want to post a comment to Omar thanking him
Posted by: mhw || 11/18/2003 10:44:06 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Whatever one wants to think about administration policy, this is a chance to do good. One just hopes said administration has some integrity and makes a good faith effort to carry through.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/18/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#2  Hiryu, the policy is "War On Terror".

Omar, sorry it took so long. Different administrations, different policies. Saddam lasted so long because of things like the cold war and that whole Iran thing. There are many who want your country to stay a battleground. You must fight them. Do you think Iraq can stay a united country or would it be better partitioned. Is Iran, Turkey, Syria a concern.

Bush made sure the battle of Iraq happened. It seems Hiryu thinks there could have been a better way. I think you know better.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#3  It's a strange world isn't it? We (and Omar is 100% right) FINALLY send our soldiers to fight and die, and yet we find ourselves in the position of being VERY grateful to Omar just for not saying what a bunch of hedgemonic, oil hungry, murderers we are.

That being said, I will say, thank God for people like Omar. The ones who have the courage to stand up and say what needs to be said. If more people would find the courage to stand up against the insanity, then the George Galloway's of the world won't have such an easy ride.
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 13:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Hiryu - You speak of integrity directed at the Bush Admin...You should focus that on the countries that would pefer that saddam still be in power.

MuRat - Is too difficult to comment on the truth?

The liberals only cry when they are not in power. Once they are in power they tend to forget the plight of the oppressed.
Posted by: Dan || 11/18/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||


Russia casts doubts on transition-of-power plan
Russia’s Foreign Ministry said Monday that the new agreement between the Iraqi Governing Council and the U.S.-led coalition to establish a provisional government before a permanent constitution is approved "raises a series of questions" about whether it can be implemented. Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko, in a statement on the ministry’s Web site, said the agreement would be put into practice "without broadening the social basis" for resolving the situation in Iraq and "without consideration for the opinion of the international community." Such an approach, he said, is "fraught with danger that this agreement will not have the necessary legitimacy either within [Iraq] or from the point of view of international law."
"It just ain't gonna work until we say it'll work."
Yakovenko pointed out in particular the lack of any statement in the agreement about a role for the United Nations. Russia, he said, believes that without involvement by the United Nations "it will [be] difficult to win the real trust of the Iraqi people or to receive full international recognition."
See Omar's post for his heartfelt confirmation of that...
The council announced the plan Saturday to establish a provisional government, with full sovereign powers, by the end of June. Iraqis would write a constitution and elect a democratic government by the end of 2005, said Ahmed Chalabi, a council member. U.S. civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer said the United States would have preferred the country have a permanent constitution before the coalition relinquished power, but an impasse over the constitution dictated otherwise.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 1:35:08 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And nothing in the agreement said how we were going to collect all the money that Saddam owed us. So, it just won't work!
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 8:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Joska Fischer says its a positive step - more distance between Germany on the one hand, and France and Russia on the other?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 9:20 Comments || Top||

#3  Joska Fischer is a f*cking terrorist who should be in prison.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#4  That's rich, former communists lecturing us on democracy...
Posted by: Raj || 11/18/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#5  I heard Joska on NPR? this morning. He's a smooth talker. The tone reminded me of a divorced person trying to convince someone (and themself) about how good their relationship is with the ex. Stuff like; We have or differences, but our relationship is too important not to move forward...blah, blah blah.

Let's just say he sucessfully managed to let the listeners know that it was only through his sheer force of will and diplomatic panache that he managed to rise above this unfortunate spat with the dirty, stinky Americans. At one point, when asked, " have the differences over Iraq caused Euroweenies to think Americans are even dirtier and smellier than they thought they were before "(or something like that..my interpretation), Joshka gave this big HUGE looong sad sigh...and then paused some more as if to say, "I'd like to agree with you, but I'm pausing for a very long time to let you know that, for diplomatic reasons, I'll just have to hold my tounge".

All in all, I laughed at the end. To make an even better analogy, it reminded me of a teenager, who thinks his mother is really stupid..but is saying the words she wants to hear so he can have the car tonight.
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Didn't the Russian's warn us about how we'd have a long slog dislodging the Taliban. And I think they warned us about the tough Iraqi military as well. Seems like the Russians are predicting doom and gloom because their failure to end the Chechnya conflict after nearly a decade makes them look puny and weak.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 14:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Please inform the Russian Foreign Ministry personnel responsible for this that in order for us to listen to their complaints, they must produce their complaints in octuplicate, on the inner tissue of a Siberian miniature white squid, written in purple ink, in classic Sanscrit, and delivered by kayak to our Washington address, no later than next Thursday. Errors, erasures, strike-throughs, or ink blots are not acceptable, and all copies must be notarized by the Ummiate of Tashkent on the first Sunday in a month spelled without an "R". Thank you and have a nice day...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||


Who are the Insurgents?
EFL
American officials acknowledge that the insurgents are a potent and increasingly structured force. A former Saddam aide who is close to insurgents in Anbar province, west of Baghdad, agrees. What were once dispersed cells are now meeting weekly in the area, he tells TIME. At the first confab four weeks ago, he says, fighters traded intelligence about the location of U.S. bases, discussed future tactics and planned a series of attacks. U.S. officials originally posited that many of the attackers were criminals Saddam had released from jail on the eve of the U.S. invasion as well as foreign terrorists allied with al-Qaeda. Now the Pentagon believes that the overwhelming majority are former Baath Party officials and other Saddam loyalists.

Abizaid said last week coalition forces are facing fewer than 5,000 insurgents in all. That figure, while based on interrogations of Iraqi fighters, is "little more than a smart guess," says a senior Pentagon official. Among the estimated 5,000, military officials say, are perhaps a couple of hundred foreigners who have infiltrated Iraq to confront the Americans. The former Saddam aide said he had met two Libyans who came to Iraq to join the battle, both of them veterans of the civil war in Sudan. CIA briefers told a group of Senators in Washington last week that fighters who have arrived recently from Syria and Iran are more skilled than those who came earlier in the year. The briefers said Ansar al-Islam, a terrorist group linked to al-Qaeda that the U.S. targeted during the fighting last spring, is "reconstituting" in northern Iraq.

The former Saddam aide cites other improvements in tactics. He claims the material for the bomb used last week in Nasiriyah—which was aimed at Italian forces and killed 31 people—came from the warhead of a surface-to-air missile looted from an ammunition dump. U.S. forces had disabled the missile by taking out the booster that launches it but left the 2,200-lb. warhead behind, he says. The resistance, he adds, is learning how to modify other types of looted weapons, converting air-to-air missiles into surface-to-air missiles for targeting low-flying helicopters. The aide says the resistance cells in his province have agreed that they will no longer conduct attacks in their hometowns. A cell from Fallujah, say, will travel to Baghdad to launch an assault and vice versa. The idea is to make it harder for U.S. Army intelligence units to detect and bust cells.

The Saddam aide says the attack in Nasiriyah was planned and executed by a cell from a town between Fallujah and Ramadi. To further increase their chances of eluding capture and to protect their families, the members of a cell based west of Fallujah, says the aide, never sleep at home. Instead they stay with relatives who live in other towns in the area. And they never keep their weapons in these or their own houses, but hide them in farmers’ fields and orchards.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/18/2003 12:20:11 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In his speech in Rochester yesterday, Dick Cheney said "In a methodical, businesslike manner, Cheney labeled Saddam Hussein “one of the bloodiest dictators of the 20th century” and maintained that, despite criticism to the contrary, Saddam cultivated weapons of mass destruction and deliberately gave support to terrorists.

“We are aggressively striking the terrorists in Iraq because if we do that, we will not have to face them in the streets of our own cities,” said Cheney, drawing a round of applause.

Democrat & Chronicle
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 8:36 Comments || Top||

#2  from the NYT (via Yahoo)


'In the interview, General Swannack drew a distinction between Ramadi, where, he said, the residents were largely cooperative, and Falluja, where, he said, they are not.

General Swannack said Falluja was nowhere near ready to be handed over to the Iraqi police. In discussing the guerrillas in Falluja, he said: "They can make it easy on themselves and tell us who the bums are, and we'll go search them out, or they will be subjected to some pain.

"But we are not going to tolerate attacks on coalition forces and people jumping for joy in the streets." '


Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 9:35 Comments || Top||

#3  I agree w/OP - raze the city. Take hair, pictures and thumbprints of all and start up a database.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Insurgents should be classified in two catagories: Dead and soon to be dead.
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:00 Comments || Top||


US troops err in civilian killings
Or maybe not...
Three Iraqis - including a child — have been shot dead by US troops in the capital while two occupation soldiers were killed in attacks north of Baghdad. The three Iraqis were killed on Monday at Baghdad’s gun market when US soldiers mistook gunfire of customers testing weapons for an attack. According to Iraqi police, the dead included an 11-year-old boy, while four others were also wounded. The apparently mistaken shooting of civilians began when a group of Iraqis were testing a gun in the market by firing it in the air, said Major Ali Rykan of the Iraqi police. As they shot, four US armoured cars passed by, Rykan said.
Making it a particularly stupid time to test fire a gun...
At least two US soldiers opened fire on the market, killing the three, said Rykan and Hashem Naim Muhammad, a witness. His 11-year-old nephew, Akil Hussain Naim, was among the dead. The shooting took place at the Mraydi market, a three-kilometre-long market that is famous in Baghdad as a place where one can buy guns. In Iraq, it is legal for a family to own one gun for self-defence.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:14 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A gun market. Great. What's next, 1-800-buy-bombs? I thought everyone was supposed to turn in their guns. Wasn't there an amnesty or something shortly after the war?
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 1:02 Comments || Top||

#2  The NRA sez it's OK and we all know which political party they support
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/18/2003 1:22 Comments || Top||

#3  The Republicans? Why doesn't the NRA give has much to the Democrats? It's doesn't seem fair.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 7:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Bite me,NMM.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 8:19 Comments || Top||

#5  The NRA is truly non-partisan believe it or not. They support Howard Dean because he's pro-Gun. Fact is less Democrats are pro-Gun so it appears that the NRA supports Republicans but they have sided with Democrats over Republicans at times.
Posted by: Yank || 11/18/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#6  Unfortunately for NMMbutjustasstupid, NRA preaches gun safety as well. And shooting at people who have superior fire power, is not safe. So the NRA would probably be completely against this type of gun use.
Posted by: Swiggles || 11/18/2003 8:55 Comments || Top||

#7  I belong to the NRA. As Swiggles said, and I can attest as one who practices firearm safety regularly at my job & at home that the NRA has outstanding gun/hunter safety programs. Respect for the weapon is paramount and is taught well by the NRA. If they are Nazis about anything its safe gun handling - which is exactly what we stress in the USMC.

As far as politics go - they are just as much on Bush's ass about renewing the asslt wpns ban as they are on McCain & Lieberman for introducing new legislation. They don't care which side of the aisle your own. E.G. - They like Dean's record on pro-gun statutes in VT. However, If you're going to try and pass legislation that is harmful (or just stupid) to law-abiding citizens who own firearms - then they are on your ass. They are a good organization that's been lied about over & over by scared anti-gun weenies and p.o.s. politicians like Fienstein. If no one was trying to pass stupid laws absolving our rights to protect our families and homes, there would be no NRA, there would not be a need -think about it. Mike Moore (not our own NMM) made a lot of cash embellishing and misrepresenting them. I know a lot of NRA folks, not one belongs to any 'local militias' or anti-gov'ment movements. (though I'm sure a few out there do)

I feel bad these four Iraqis got killed, but their system failed them, I don't blame the troops one bit - I'm sure the media leeches will though. The local authorities need to set up a hasty range in an open area and tell us what's going on there. This would stop repeat incidents & fix future problems.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:24 Comments || Top||

#8  the gun market was banned, these assholes just don't grasp that, do they?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#9  Hey, apropos the gratuitous NRA association that NMM made, somebody tell me what the NRA's position is on testing guns by firing them up in the air in the middle of a city ? This is in the "unsafe practice" category, right ? Along with waving guns around in the presence of US armor ?
Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 11/18/2003 12:28 Comments || Top||

#10  when US soldiers mistook gunfire of customers testing weapons for an attack

I just marvel at the IQ level, or la-la mentality that is required to be willing to admit that you believe this stuff.

On a brighter note, I'm actually heartened by the news on rantburg today. The increasing number of bogus accusations like this one shows how hysterical the anti-american pathology has become. The shrill and ridiculous nature of the complaints shows such desperation that it is becoming downright embarassing to watch.

I guess it's just a percentage-of-the-population kind of thing. From the trivial nature of what's causing the left to spasm lately it's clear that you really don't need to come up with anything of substance ...just put forth any ol' lame thing and then say.....GO!GO!GO!GO! Like a Quaker Revival, these people will suddenly start shaking and quaking and spewing chants. I guess it makes sense when you are so caught up in the moment, but it looks pretty damn ridiculous to everyone else.
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#11  It's Iraq. An occupied country. No NRA. No anything else. If you have a gun, and we see it, you die.
Posted by: Bones || 11/18/2003 17:28 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Pentagon Recovers Remains Believed to be Howard Dean’s Brother
Associated Press. EFL

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon said Tuesday it has uncovered remains from the site in Laos where Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean’s younger brother was believed to have been killed nearly 30 years ago.

The remains have not been officially identified, but were uncovered in a grave along with some of Charles Dean’s personal items, said Howard Dean’s campaign spokeswoman, Tricia Enright.

The candidate was notified of the discovery a few days ago, Enright said.

Charles Dean was a 24-year-old graduate of the University of North Carolina traveling the world when he and a companion, Neil Sharman of Australia, were arrested in Laos by the communist Pathet Lao.

The two were detained Sept. 4, 1974, during a trip down the Mekong River, and held in a small, remote prison camp for a few months before being killed. They apparently were suspected of being spies, although the U.S. and Australian governments said they were merely tourists and strongly protested their detention. . . .

Charles Dean, although a civilian, is considered by the U.S. government to have been a prisoner of war. The effort to recover the bodies of Dean and Sharman was coordinated by the Defense Department’s Joint Task Force Full Accounting.

A joint U.S.-Laotian team discovered the remains earlier this month in Bolikhamxai Province in central Laos, said Larry Greer, spokesman for the Pentagon office in charge of POW and MIA issues. He said the remains are still in Laos and will be picked up by a U.S. Air Force plane in the next few weeks to be taken to the military’s identification laboratory in Hawaii.

. . .There are currently 1,875 Americans missing from the Vietnam conflict, including some civilians such as Dean, Greer said. He did not have a precise number of missing civilians but said they include government contractors, missionaries and those like Dean who had no connection to military operations.

The military tracks those missing Americans for two reasons: Government contractors deserve the same effort as military members and civilians need to be tracked so their remains aren’t mistaken for those of soldiers, Greer said.

"We track everybody who’s an American," he added.




Posted by: Mike || 11/18/2003 12:57:59 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ? Who goes hiking in Laos in 1974????
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/18/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Family genes obviously run deep. Normal rules and logic need not apply
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 13:11 Comments || Top||

#3  ? Who goes hiking in Laos in 1974????

Bright, young, eastern-establishment Company men newly recruited and hooked up with their OZ counterpart, that's who!
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 11/18/2003 13:53 Comments || Top||

#4  I can't wait to hear from the leftist idiots how it was really Bush who had him killed...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 11/18/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Good question, Seafarious. I think Howard remembers him as "the dumb one"...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 17:18 Comments || Top||

#6  My first thought too, Seafarious. Next stop, tap-dancing through the minefields of Cambodia.

Evolution in action?
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 18:22 Comments || Top||

#7  I hope he takes some time out with some family members.

Shouldn't be a campaign issue although it probably will be.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:44 Comments || Top||


Samudra loses appeal against death sentence
Oooh. Too bad, that...
The man who masterminded the Bali bombings has lost his appeal against a death sentence, a court official said Monday. Imam Samudra is the second key bomber on death row to have his appeal rejected, after Amrozi. The Bali high court has rejected the appeals of Samudra and of several others who sought lower prison terms, its chief I Made Tara was quoted by the state Antara news agency as saying. Samudra’s lawyer Wirawan Adnan told AFP he had not been notified of the high court’s ruling but was not surprised.
"I mean, he's a murderer, ain't he?"
He declined comment on whether Samudra will now appeal to the country’s supreme court, as Amrozi has done. Investigators believe Samudra is a leading member of the al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) terror network, which staged the attack on two crowded nightclubs to avenge Western oppression of Muslims worldwide. The bombings on October 12, 2002, killed 202 people — mostly Western oppressors holidaymakers... The Afghanistan-trained Samudra had once said he would welcome death as bringing him closer to God. Executions are by firing squad.
"No, thanks. Just the blindfold. Cigarettes are bad for your health..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 01:05 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Pakistan under threat, says jailed Indonesian Muslim cleric
Pakistan, along with other Muslim countries with close ties to the US, is under threat from militant Muslim attacks, according to jailed Indonesian Muslim leader Abu Bakar Bashir. Bashir rejected Afghan President Hamid Karzai as “an American doll,” and dismissed Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, a key US ally in the war against terrorism, as an American lackey. He accused Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri of neither understanding nor caring about Islam.
He says that like it's a bad thing...
Leaders of the small Islamic states around the Persian Gulf “are too soft against America. They are under America’s influence,” he said. “As long as they are still under US control like Megawati, we cannot call them as Muslim leaders. The Muslim leader should be free from American influence and should have power to rule the country. A Muslim leader should control the country, and non-Muslims in the country should obey.”
They all love that idea of ruling, rather than governing...
He told Washington Times in an interview from the Salemba Prison, Jakarta, that “as long as Muslim countries have close ties or support the US government or US policy, [they] will be threatened by a Muslim militant attack.”
"We'll make sure of that!"
“Indonesia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and some Mideast countries,” were all potential targets, the 66-year-old cleric told the newspaper. He is said to be a guiding force behind the Indonesian terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah. He was convicted last year on charges of treason, but prosecutors failed to convince the court that the preacher was a leader of the militant Jemaah Islamiyah network responsible for a string of bombings and attacks across Southeast Asia, including the October 2002 explosions that killed 202 persons, including many Australian and Western tourists, in the Indonesian beach resort of Bali.
Yo! Prince Nayef! Can we have a prison fire over here?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:54 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "He accused Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri of neither understanding nor caring about Islam. "

Or perhaps it is because she understands it far too well.
Posted by: JFM || 11/18/2003 1:43 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Ford Foundation promises reforms
JPost Reg Req’d
One day after members of the Senate Finance Committee demanded increased scrutiny into the Ford Foundation’s funding practices, Ford president Susan Berresford announced in a letter to Rep. Jerrold Nadler that it has agreed to halt funding to groups that espouse anti-Semitism, promote violence and deny Israel’s legitimacy.
Nadler’s proof that a disgusting liberal can find the time to do productive things as well...
Questions about Ford’s funding were made after a four-part investigation by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency revealed that the foundation provided significant funding to groups that promoted anti-Semitism and the delegitimization of Israel at the 2001 UN World Conference Against Racism in Durban, South Africa.
Henry’s spinning in his brownshirt grave
Berresford noted in the letter that Ford will: add new language to its standard grant agreement prohibiting violence, terrorism, bigotry and the call for the destruction of any nation; pilot a program in the Middle East to enhance financial accountability; address the rise of anti-Semitism; and further review Ford grantees’ actions at the Durban conference in consultation with US Jewish groups. Funding was also halted to the Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment, known as LAW, which led anti-Israel activities in Durban. "I expect that the growing relationships that Ford’s leadership has built, during this time, with the American Jewish community will mark a critical new chapter in the fight against anti-Semitism and de-legitimization of Israel’s right to exist," said Rep. Nadler.
I doubt it, but good luck.
Berresford’s letter was also praised by Jewish groups, including the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee.
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 8:44:48 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Threaten them with losing their tax-exempt status and you will see reforms by the firkin. Better review Ford Foundation regularly, lest they go back to their usual habits. Greenpeace and ACLU should be next.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 21:03 Comments || Top||

#2  Many of the big name foundations are run by PC types and politically corrupt. Read Heather MacDonald on this topic at

http://www.city-journal.org/html/7_4_a3.html#mistaken

and

http://www.city-journal.org/html/6_4_a1.html






Posted by: TPF || 11/18/2003 22:08 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Ireland to present UN resolution condemning anti-Semitism
Jpost Reg Req’d
A special resolution condemning anti-Semitism is to be presented to the UN by Ireland Tuesday night. This is the first resolution of its kind in the history of the organization, and it is to be presented by a country not usually sympathetic to Israel.
Catholic (which I am) guilt wins over EU anti-semitism! Hooray for what’s right!
At a meeting with European Union foreign ministers, Israeli FM Silvan Shalom asked Irish FM Brian Cowen to include the condemnation of anti-Semitism in the UN’s annual resolution condemning worldwide religious intolerance in light of the recent rise of anti-Semitic incidents throughout the European continent. Cowen explained that his country’s stance is a result of recent events and that European ministers are especially worried about the rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe.
Thank you Ireland for doing what’s right! For a Southern Californian Catholic, you’ve shown morality exists in the EU despite the antisemites!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 8:41:43 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Don't get mad. I am of Irish descent:

The Irish finally get one right.
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 21:33 Comments || Top||

#2 

Erin Go Bragh...er,...Israel Go Bragh !!! Yeah !!!
Posted by: Mark || 11/18/2003 22:16 Comments || Top||

#3  So, the Sons of St. Patrick are apologizing for that whole being allies of the NAZIS in WW2 thing? Took damn long enough.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 22:58 Comments || Top||

#4  In WWII, it was that whole "enemy of my enemy" thing. They took Hitler, we took Stalin. Hard to tell the pot from the kettle there. The current action is quite encouraging, looking the other way seems less respectable right now.
Posted by: VAMark || 11/18/2003 23:05 Comments || Top||

#5  "Catholic (which I am) guilt wins over EU anti-semitism! "

Or perhaps EU anti-bigotry wins over Catholic anti-semetism?

But you'll see it your way and I'll see it mine.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/18/2003 23:30 Comments || Top||

#6  Just amazing. I'm going to activate the 48 hour rule on this one, to see if there is any catch. I don't assume that there is a catch, but you know how stories change sometimes. Hence the 48 hour rule in the first place. Anyway, if it is as it seems, then the Irish have just done the right thing at the right time. I wonder what provoked this, and I wonder if there is any connection in the timing between this move and the Ford foundation announcement, which has provoked me to activate the 480 hour rule.
Posted by: ISLAM SUCKS || 11/19/2003 0:30 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon
Istanbul bombing mastermind fled to Syria
JPost Reg Req’d - Interesting how all clues - and GPS indicaters point to Syria
Turkish police have revealed that the International Islamic Jihad organization perpetrated the attack on two Turkish synagogues Saturday with the aid of al Qaida and other organizations.
welcome to the WOT Murat! Show Spine or resign from civilization!
Two of the suicide bombers were cousins, and a brother of one of them organized the attack. Immediately after the attack, the head of the operation fled to Syria. Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul informed reporters that Saturday’s explosions at the two Istanbul synagogues were connected to an Afghan-based terror organization. Monday, the four perpetrators were identified as Masoud Shabok and Azzad Akinji, who are associated with either the Islamic movement or a radical yet marginal Turkish terror group, the Islamic Great Eastern Raiders Front; both organizations are banned in Turkey. Three bodies had been found at the crime scene, and a fourth was missing. Turkish authorities were still awaiting DNA identification, Tuesday morning, before making a formal statement, but had arrested 30 people, so far, according to French news services. A fake passport made out to Azad Akinïi and another belonging to Masud Chabuk were found at the crime scene. The fake passport was apparently provided by al Qaida. Akinïi is a well-known activist with ties to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechnya and Bosnia, and his brother is wanted in connection with extremist Moslem organizations. One of the vehicles belonged to the third brother, Mura, now being questioned.
"Ow! Oooch! Hey! Stop that!"
Security cameras at the Neve Shalom Synagogue captured the image of one of the bombers moments before he detonated his car bomb, perhaps providing investigators with vital clues to apprehending the attack’s masterminds. Turkish press reports that the four arrived from Bingol in Eastern Turkey, and described them as Islamic activists who had trained in Iran and Pakistan.
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 8:32:27 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Terrorists in Syria!

Well, where have we heard that before???
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 21:06 Comments || Top||

#2  Well it's about damn time for a betting pool!

How long until the bombing of Syria?
Posted by: Daniel King || 11/18/2003 22:48 Comments || Top||

#3  I'm told that the vidio showed that the bomb-ber looked like this... @_@...just before detonation.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/19/2003 1:24 Comments || Top||


International
Economist: World’s poor denied the tools of capitalism
To some of us, this article will seem terribly obvious, but it bears out whats worth repeating: Socialism Kills.
By Hernando de Soto
Imagine a country where the law that governs property rights is so deficient that nobody can easily identify who owns what, addresses cannot be systematically verified, and people cannot be made to pay their debts. Consider not being able to use your own house or business to guarantee credit. Imagine a property system in which you can’t divide your ownership in a business into shares that investors can buy, or where descriptions of assets are not standardized. Welcome to life in the developing world, home of five-sixths of the global population. These people’s plight underlines a paradoxical reality: Capitalism was supposed to be the answer to global underdevelopment, but here it never had a chance. It hasn’t even been tried.

In a capitalist economy, all business deals are based on the rules of property and its transactions. Third World property systems, however, exclude the assets and transactions of 80 percent of the population, cutting off the poor from the economy as markedly as apartheid once separated black and white South Africans. Why is this important? Conventional macroeconomic reform programs have ignored the poor, assuming they have no wealth to build on. Big mistake. My research team and I have recently completed several studies of the underground economy in the Third World, and they prove that the poor are, in fact, not so poor. In Peru, the poor’s assets are worth an estimated $90 billion — 11 times the value of equities on the Lima stock exchange and 40 times the sum of all foreign assistance to the country since World War II. In Mexico the estimate is $315 billion — seven times the worth of Pemex, the national oil company.

The problem is that the poor and lower-middle class are not allowed to use their assets in the same way that wealthier citizens do. And one of the biggest political challenges is to bring those assets from the "extralegal" sector into a more inclusive legal property system in which they can become more productive and generate capital for their owners. Third World governments have already proved they can reform bad property arrangements, at least for the rich. In 1990, for example, the Compañia Peruana de Teléfonos was valued on the Lima stock exchange at $53 million. The government, however, could not sell CPT to foreign investors because of problems with the company’s title to many of its assets. The Peruvians put together a hotshot legal team to create a legal title that would meet the standardized property norms required by the global economy. Documents were rewritten to secure the interests of third parties and create confidence that would allow for credit and investment. The legal team also created enforceable rules for settling property disputes that bypassed the dilatory and corruption-prone Peruvian courts. Three years later, CPT entered the world of liquid capital and was sold for $2 billion — 37 times its previous market valuation. That’s what a good property system can do.

But how to determine what the poor really own so that their assets can be legally titled and the potential capital trapped inside can be released? Nine years ago, I was invited by the Indonesian Cabinet to offer advice on identifying the assets of the 90 percent of Indonesians living in the extralegal sector. I was no expert on Indonesia, but as I strolled through the rice fields of Bali, a different dog would bark as I entered a different property. The dogs did not have to graduate from law school to know which assets their masters controlled. To determine who owned what, I advised the Cabinet to begin by "listening to the barking dogs." One of the ministers responded, "Ah, jukum adat — the people’s law."

The history of capitalism in the West is a story of how governments adapted the "people’s law" into uniform rules and codes. Ownership represented by dogs, fences and armed guards is now represented by records, titles and shares. The moment Westerners were able to focus on the title of a house and not just the house itself, they achieved a huge advantage over the rest of humanity. With titles, shares and property laws, people could suddenly go beyond looking at their assets as they are (houses used for shelter) to thinking about what they could be (security for credit to start a business). Through widespread, integrated property systems, Western nations inadvertently created a staircase that allowed their citizens to climb out of the grubby basement of the material world into the realm where capital is created. The poor are not the problem we think they are, but the solution to their own plight. The time is ripe to take the definition of property away from conservative legal establishments in developing countries and put it in the hands of politicians committed to this view.

Hernando de Soto is the president and founder of the Institute for Liberty and Democracy (ILD), a private, nonprofit organization headquartered in Lima, Peru. He was in Seattle last week to speak to the Seattle Initiative for Global Development.
Hernando de Soto wrote a great book,called "The Mystery of Capital" on this subject.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 6:27:13 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Thank you, O lefty moonbats, for saving us from the evils of globalization!"
Posted by: BH || 11/18/2003 19:18 Comments || Top||

#2  For the purposes of economic prosperity only - property rights are more important than democracy. The Homestead Act and the granting of railroad concessions were critical to our development.

The class dispute jargon is a little on the heavy side.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#3  Didn't Hernando De Soto discover Florida? Or at least invent the sedan?
Posted by: Tibor || 11/18/2003 19:32 Comments || Top||

#4  Hernando de Soto

I have a picture of DeSoto overlookng the Mississippi.

It was my Dad's '57 near Natchez.


Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:33 Comments || Top||

#5  Naw.. it was Juan Ponce what ran into Florida.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:35 Comments || Top||

#6  SH,
granting of railroad concessions were critical to our development.

Yeah, agreed with the caviat that most of the grantors and grantees should have been hung. I expect that this is one of the few times I'd agree with NMM.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:37 Comments || Top||

#7  One of the best and most surprising articles I've ever read.
What made America rich is little noted- our Founding Fathers also invented the patent system.
Intellectual property, just as my faith and speech are MY property.

Now if only the drug warriors felt that way about my bladder- if it's not private, nothing is. Note the trends concerning children, homes, cars, bank accounts, internet usage, gun registration, -etc.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 23:50 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Germany hesitating on subs sale to Israel
From Worldtribune.com
LONDON — Germany is balking at an Israeli request for at least two Dolphin-class diesel submarines.

German officials and industry sources said the considerations for the sale will focus on whether Israel would use the submarines for nuclear or strategic strikes against Iran or Arab adversaries. The officials said this has been the growing concern by the Bundestag, or Germany’s parliament.
No, they are just going to wander around the MED for fun.
Currently, officials and analysts said, the prospect of an additional Dolphin submarine sale to Israel appears remote. They cite a steady reduction of German arms sales to Israel because of concern that they would be deployed in the war against the Palestinians.
Never mind that the Paleos bring in a bunch of their own arms, remember the "Karin A."
In 2000, Germany completed the delivery of three Dolphin-class submarines, Middle East Newsline reported. Two of the submarines were transferred to Israel for free as part of German compensation for help to Iraq’s missile program in the 1980s.
Iraq fired 42 extended-range Scud-class missiles toward Israel during the 1991 Gulf war.

"Politically it would be impossible to justify," Otfried Nassauer, head of the Information Center for Trans-Atlantic Security in Berlin, said. "It would dangerously heat up the Middle East conflict."
No, we will just let Iran acquire missiles and tip them with home-grown nukes.
Analysts said that Germany sold Israel $900 million worth of defense products between 1998 and 2001. They said Germany is one of Israel’s biggest arms suppliers.

The Dolphin submarines underwent modifications at Germany’s Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft shipyards. In 1999, the German Defense Ministry said the underwater vessels were outfitted with 650 mm artillery pieces capable of launching the U.S.-origin Harpoon missile.

The Berlin government has allowed HDW to enter technical talks with Israel to prepare for a formal proposal for the Dolphin submarines. The deal is said to involve at least two submarines.

Today, many German parliamentarians and analysts believe that the modifications were meant to fire missiles capable of bearing nuclear warheads. Some of them believe Israel has developed a warhead small enough to fit on conventional missiles.

Israel has discussed with Germany the prospect of procuring another two Diesel-class submarines. Industry sources said Israel hopes that the Dolphins could be manufactured in the United States in an arrangement that would allow the Jewish state to use U.S. military aid to finance the purchase.

A U.S. company, the Chicago-based One Equity Partner, has a major stake in HDW. But One Equity has abandoned efforts to sell HDW to a U.S. company, such as Northrop Grumman, because nobody offered the price demanded by the Chicago firm. HDW posted a loss of 122 million euros in the year that ended on Sept. 30, 2003.

Officials don’t expect Germany to reject Israel’s request for additional Dolphins. Instead, they expect Germany’s Security Committee, which makes decisions on weapons contracts, to delay such a decision.

"Given the knowledge that the first three boats have been transformed into atomic launching pads, Germany can only answer the request with a clear ’No’," Nassauer said.

Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 5:19:48 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Jeeeze Louise.... Let's loan 'em a couple of Ethan Allens.

They have to return emit fully fueled and clean in 2014. Then we'll let them borrow the Florida.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 18:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Shipman, - "They cite a steady reduction of German arms sales to Israel because of concern that they would be deployed in the war against the Palestinians." - I can see it now: diesel submarine is mounted on a trailer for use in targetted assasinations.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:28 Comments || Top||

#3  allow Electric Boat/Newport News to build a couple nuke-powered boomers fitted for cruise missiles for them. Taiwan too. Take the fight to the enemy
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 19:30 Comments || Top||


Iran
Europe too soft on Iran, says US
BREAKING NEWS: The EU and IAEA have combined forces to create the incompetent bureaucracy the world has ever seen...
US Secretary of State Colin Powell has criticised a draft European resolution on Iran’s nuclear weapons programme as not being tough enough. Mr Powell said he had "a very candid discussion" with EU foreign ministers in Brussels on the issue. The US wants Iran declared in breach of its nuclear treaty obligations, a move that could lead to UN sanctions. The EU statement has been submitted to the UN’s nuclear watchdog which meets on Thursday to discuss Iran.

Speaking at a news conference in Brussels, Mr Powell said he was pleased that Iran "seems to be moving in the right direction." But he said the US did not believe that the Iranian Government had abandoned all efforts to produce nuclear weapons. He said the draft text on Iran offered by Britain, France and Germany was not tough enough on Tehran’s non-compliance with its treaty obligations. "We have some reservations ...about whether the resolution is strong enough to convey to the world the difficulties that we have had with Iran over the years," Mr Powell said. The BBC’s Europe correspondent, Chris Morris, says it is clear there were considerable disagreements between the US and the EU over Iran. While Washington is pushing for Iran to be reported to the Security Council, the European view is that constructive engagement with Iran should be given a chance to work, our correspondent says.
Even if it takes 12 years and 20 UN resolutions.
Last week, a report by IAEA inspectors said they had found no evidence that Iran has secretly been developing nuclear weapons. But they did admonish the Iranian authorities for being secretive. Iran has warned of serious consequences if the IAEA refers its nuclear programme to the Security Council. Tehran has always claimed its nuclear programme is designed to meet the country’s energy needs.
And they only read Playboy for the articles.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/18/2003 3:37:24 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Even if it takes 12 years and 20 UN resolutions.

This one should be called:

Iran and Nuclear Weapons: Iraq Again? or, Where Have We Seen This Before?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Mr Powell said he had "a very candid discussion" with EU foreign ministers in Brussels on the issue.

Heh. Didya call Dominique a cheese-munching neo-aristocratic pretentious asshole?

I sure hope so.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 15:53 Comments || Top||

#3  Last I checked...Iran's missiles couldn't reach the US mainland. So let's erect a theater missile defense system around Israel, and let the Euros wallow in their own crapulence. (er...aside from the oil)

/wishful thinking
Posted by: mjh || 11/18/2003 16:35 Comments || Top||

#4  Iran has a death wish. We are the only ones trying to prevent it before Israel has to stomp their asses for her own survival.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 19:31 Comments || Top||

#5  What could we bribe them with? They already have oil. Probably wouldn't want any grain or GM stuff might turn their beautiful country into brown goo. I've got it. Ronald, I need 500,000,000 Big Mac's. Charge it to the General Fund of the Government of the people of the United States. Throw in the toys that go in the Happy Meals that will keep their kids happy and provide some useful work for the slave camps of NK.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 19:50 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Marriage under attack in Massachusetts
Score another for the perversion crowd.
AP) - Massachusetts’ highest court ruled 4-3 Tuesday that the state’s ban on same- sex marriage is unconstitutional and gave lawmakers 180 days to come up with a solution that would allow gay couples to wed. The court did not issue marriage licenses to the seven couples who sued and left the details to the Legislature. "Whether and whom to marry, how to express sexual intimacy, and whether and how to establish a family — these are among the most basic of every individual’s liberty and due process rights," the majority opinion said.
right before four sets of lips fell off

I actually have nothing against gay matrimony, other than esthetics. But I know these people. What's permissible today becomes mandatory tomorrow...
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 2:34:01 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Peshawar.

Go read Andy Sullivan.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||

#2  I've never been able to understand what "Peshawar" means in this context. Could someone please explain?
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 14:49 Comments || Top||

#3  I've heard about this this morning on KVI Radio (Seattle). People were wondering if this would also allow pediphiles from marrying their victims, people from marrying their pets or cows or rocks. Fathers or Mothers from marrying their Sons or Daughters, etc...

And since when can the Court direct the Legislature to do anything? Lets hope the Legislature gives the court a big 'Bugger Off' on this one.

From the linked article:

But the issue may find a hostile audience in the Massachusetts Legislature, which has been considering a constitutional amendment that would legally define a marriage as a union between one man and one woman. The state's powerful Speaker of the House, Tom Finneran of Boston, has endorsed this proposal.

And Republican Gov. Mitt Romney criticizing the ruling, saying: "Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I will support an amendment to the Massachusetts Constitution that makes that expressly clear. Of course, we must provide basic civil rights and appropriate benefits to nontraditional couples, but marriage is a special institution that should be reserved for a man and a woman."
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/18/2003 14:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Short for "what's that got to do with the price of kalishnikovs in Peshawar?"

Itself a modification of the old "whats that got to do with the price of eggs?" used to respond to an irrelevant statement. Implication of being off topic.

Note well: of course its up to Fred Pruitt to determine what is or is not off topic here. He doesnt seem to mind the rest of us venturing our opinions on that question, though.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#5  "People were wondering if this would also allow pediphiles from marrying their victims, people from marrying their pets or cows or rocks. Fathers or Mothers from marrying their Sons or Daughters, etc."

So they think gay people are like cows or rocks?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#6  It seems some judges need some refresher courses on law: the matter of who or what is your sex partner is a private matter (with some restrictions like minors) and is basically out of bounds for regulation.


But marriage is a social institution and thus a PUBLIC matter. The reason a society creates marriage in the first place is because society needs children to survive and the more stable the form of union the more childreen it produces on average (ie women having one night adventures have less children than women living with a man these less on average than married women). That is the reason the society spends resources on creating a legal cadre, keeping records and reducing the taxes paid by married couples.

No society I know about has ever accepted gay marriage and other sterile unions: in Doric regions of ancient Greece men were encouraged to have homosexual relationships as a way to increase army's cohesion but AFAIK even at Thebes or Sparta marriage was a thing who happenned between a man a woman.

Finally, the principle of separation of powers means that judges cannot make the law, only interpret it. And extending marriage is definitely a legislative (ie out of bounds for judges) issue since decisions of a judge don't bind him or bind other judges for other cases.

As I said people can have sex or live with whoever they like, it is their business. But marriage is society's business.

Posted by: JFM || 11/18/2003 17:14 Comments || Top||

#7  Finally, the principle of separation of powers means that judges cannot make the law, only interpret it.

Haven't been following the "Schumer" line, huh JFM? The left never fails to invent law from the bench when they can't win at the polls. That's why they're filibustering qualified judges that aren't willing to "read" intent into common language
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 17:21 Comments || Top||

#8  Seing how this is Massachusetts, I'm surprised they didn't make it mandatory.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/18/2003 17:32 Comments || Top||

#9  Get a life. Someone who is in a long-term relationship with someone has some legitimate claims that shouldn't be preempted by the goofball members of their respective families.

We'll call it civil union if you're really that hot under the collar on this issue.

It's not like we're a theocracy yet, no thanks to Asscroft.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/18/2003 17:41 Comments || Top||

#10  Get a life. Someone who is in a long-term relationship with someone has some legitimate claims that shouldn't be preempted by the goofball members of their respective families. We'll call it civil union if you're really that hot under the collar on this issue.

Agreed Civil Union.

Last line "Asscroft" was best left out.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:55 Comments || Top||

#11  "Marriage under attack" ?

Actually it seems to me that the only people attacking marriage are the people attacking gay marriages. I've certainly never seen any supporters of gay marriages attacking hetero marriages or the institution in general.

"Of course, we must provide basic civil rights and appropriate benefits to nontraditional couples,"

Pfft. Idiots. When society recognizes the lifelong bond between a couple (whether "traditional" or "non-traditional") that's what marriage *is*.

So the moron in question says that he opposes to the word "marriage" being used, but he doesn't oppose the essense of recognizing homosexual unions.

That's what in Greece is called "hiding behind one's finger".

Cowardly chicken.

JFM> No society has ever accepted sterile unions? I assure you that sterile people are indeed allowed to marry.

Sorry, kiddo, but the "can't reproduce" argument is as weak one as you can find, and derives back from the days when a husband could divorce or even kill his wife if she was barren.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/18/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

#12  What this all boils down to is exhibitionism. Apparently the legal profession regards sexual exhibitionism as a constitutional right.

The best part about this is: (paraphrasing Jeb Bush) "At least they can't increase their numbers through marriage." ;o)
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 19:44 Comments || Top||

#13  The ruling was made in the summer and announced in November to prevent any type of voter feedback in the polls. Nice democratic touch.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:10 Comments || Top||

#14  I'd be alot more supportive of gay marriage if all the couples weren't so DAMN ugly. EEEEHHWWW! It's not like the movies at all, is it?
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 20:36 Comments || Top||


Indiana museum torched?
A fire destroyed a museum founded by a Holocaust survivor early Tuesday and arson is suspected, a museum official said. The fire was reported at the CANDLES Museum just after midnight and gutted the building, a former printing plant south of the city’s downtown. "The police said there was a brick that had broken the main glass door, and they threw something in there that was an accelerant," said Mary Wright, the museum’s education director. "Even the display cases were practically burned down to the ground." Someone also wrote "Remember Timmy McVeigh" on a wall. Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was executed at a federal prison outside Terre Haute in 2001. Terre Haute police referred calls to the Fire Department, which did not return messages. Doug Garrison, a spokesman for the FBI in Indianapolis, said his agency is not involved in the fire investigation, but could be asked to assist. CANDLES stands for Children of Auschwitz Nazi Deadly Experiments Survivors. The museum was founded in 1995 by Holocaust survivor Eva Kor. It houses artifacts from Auschwitz and documents relating to Dr. Josef Mengele. Kor and an identical twin sister, Miriam Mozes Zeiger, were subjected to Mengele’s genetic experiments at the Auschwitz concentration camp. Her sister died of cancer in 1993. Kor did not return phone messages left Tuesday at her home and office. Wright said the museum had never received any threats.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/18/2003 1:38:09 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Remember Timmy McVeigh"??? Hmmm..that sounds so...confused.
Posted by: B || 11/18/2003 14:07 Comments || Top||

#2  Thank G*d it wasn't a Mosque.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 19:22 Comments || Top||

#3  Looks like we won't be evacuating the surviving Turkish Jews to Indiana. I'm afraid to look in the obits of the local papers for evidence of honor killings. This is pretty shameful.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 20:15 Comments || Top||

#4  Was it Indiana or Iowa that just granted a large "youth summer camp" to a Muslim group? (Think of Palestinian youth camps- or North Korean, or Cuban ones (where the 7 year olds like Elian Gonzales are shipped off to chop tobacco for Castro).

"...it wasn't a Mosque"-- good one, no, GREAT one!

I'm an identical twin, too- mine was killed in a PLO training camp in the mountains of Vancouver, Canada in 1979. Mengele?!!? You poor singletons honestly just cannot imagine or understand... this wasteland of loneliness is all you know.
Posted by: alzaebo || 11/19/2003 0:14 Comments || Top||

#5  p.s.- my beloved was photographing mountain scenery for Nat'l Geographic; stumbling across the camp, camera in hand.... well, you can guess the rest. To satisfy your curiosity- yes, I "heard" it in Utah... that great, silent "shout"- like a burst of white hot light- then darkness. He spoke to me several years later; his words? "No, this is not a dream; I am here to tell you about the other side"- yes, both the priests and the professors are ignorant and blind. There is much more, and it is as detailed and complicated as the reality we build on this world... if we create a new and higher reality(airplanes, brick houses, and watches) in this world, do you think the next would be any different? Although, there, there is no escape from one's victims... As for a "Judge" or even "Designer", I don't know. Doesn't matter anyways- if there were a God, yet you dissolved- poof!- into nothingness upon death, would his existence matter? What matters after death, to you, is YOUR existence.
Posted by: alzaebo || 11/19/2003 0:26 Comments || Top||


More on "The Memo"
deeper & deeper; from WaPo, one of the few places to say anything about this
The CIA will ask the Justice Department to investigate the leak of a 16-page classified Pentagon memo that listed and briefly described raw agency intelligence on any relationship between Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi government and Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda terrorist network, according to congressional and administration sources. In addition, the leaders of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Chairman Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) and Vice Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), are considering making their own request for a Justice investigation. The top-secret memo was attached to an Oct. 27 letter to them from Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith. Feith was answering a request that he support his assertion during a closed-door hearing in July that there was intelligence to support a longtime relationship between the Iraqi leader and the terrorist group.

Excerpts from the memo were first published Saturday in the issue of the Weekly Standard dated Nov. 24. Under the headline "Case Closed," the article described the memo as documenting "an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003" between bin Laden and Hussein. It describes the memo as containing "50 numbered points" that are "best viewed as sort of a ’Cliff’s Notes’ version of the relationship. It contains the highlights, but it is far from exhaustive." In making their case for invading Iraq, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other senior administration officials stressed both Hussein’s possession of weapons of mass destruction and his connection to bin Laden. To date, the administration has been unable to come up with unconventional weapons in Iraq or evidence that there was a close connection between the Iraqis and al Qaeda. A Washington Post poll in August found that 69 percent of the American public believed Saddam Hussein was connected to the attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
That last sentence has nothing to do with what went before it. What people believe and what actually happened can be two different things...
A CIA request to Justice is automatic when classified information purported to come from the CIA is involved in an unauthorized disclosure. Under the normal referral system, a request would be made to Feith to determine who had access to the memo and what other distribution it may have had beyond the Senate committee. In a news release, the Defense Department late Saturday described the Feith memo as containing "either raw reports or products of the CIA, the NSA [the National Security Agency, which performs electronic intelligence intercepts] or in one case, the DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency]." The release said that leaking such a document "is deplorable and may be illegal."

One item reported in the Weekly Standard began, "According to CIA reporting, bin Laden and [top bin Laden deputy Ayman] Zawahiri met with two Iraqi intelligence officers in Afghanistan in Dec. 1998." Another item refers to "sensitive CIA reporting" about the Saudi National Guard going on alert in December 2000 "after learning Saddam agreed to assist al Qaeda in attacking U.S./U.K. interests in Saudi Arabia." In its Saturday release, the Pentagon took the unusual step of saying, "News reports that the Defense Department recently confirmed new information with respect to contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq . . . are inaccurate." The release also said the memo "was not an analysis of the substantive issue of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda and drew no conclusions."
Raw intel doesn't draw conclusions. It presents facts for people to use to draw conclusions...
A senior intelligence official said yesterday that the NSA and the DIA may make their own referrals to Justice, based on their analysis of the information disclosed from the Feith memo. While Stephen F. Hayes, author of the Weekly Standard article, concluded that "there can no longer be any serious argument about whether Saddam Hussein’s Iraq worked with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda to plot against Americans," some critics of the administration policy came to a different conclusion. W. Patrick Lang, former head of the Middle East section of the DIA,
anybody know this guy? a Clinton appointee?
In that position he should be a civil servant...
said yesterday that the Standard article "is a listing of a mass of unconfirmed reports, many of which themselves indicate that the two groups continued to try to establish some sort of relationship. If they had such a productive relationship, why did they have to keep trying?"
Who said they had a productive relationship?
Another former senior intelligence official said the memo is not an intelligence product but rather "data points . . . among the millions of holdings of the intelligence agencies, many of which are simply not thought likely to be true."
but these are thought likely to be true, he added
Posted by: Spot || 11/18/2003 9:12:02 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  of course, it was the leak, not the facts that disputed the "Bush lied!" meme that's most important. Walter Pincus was going out of his way in the WaPo to downplay the memo...
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:15 Comments || Top||

#2  But of course! A leaked memo that makes the Democrats look bad is a crime; one that makes the administration look bad is front-page, around-the-clock news.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 9:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Somewhat paranoid world view, I expect, but I wonder if the main reason the Dems are mad is because it shows the utter hypocracy of the Dems "Bush lied to us".
Posted by: rabidfox || 11/18/2003 10:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Get Jack Nicholson in there:

"You cant handle the truth!"
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:43 Comments || Top||

#5  If the Weekly Standard is listing a mass of unconfirmed reports from the LAST 10 YEARS then the CIA hasn't been doing its' job, has it?

WP might be playing the memo down, but at least it was mentioned.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:04 Comments || Top||

#6  This kind of leak is exactly why most US intelligence agencies don't like to send hard intelligence to Congress. Congress has a long track record of being leakier than the Titanic after the collision with the iceberg. To most congresscritters (sadly, on both sides of the aisle), politics is much more important than 'silly old prattling about national security'.

It's one thing to classify something in order to cover up wrongdoing (usually on the part of Congress or some government agency), and another to release classified information solely to prove a political point. Hopefully, this release won't lead to the deaths of any US agents.

I have to think, however, that this "leak" was in direct response to the leaked DEMOCRATIC memo about using the Senate Committee on Intelligence as a Democratic political process.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 11:44 Comments || Top||

#7  The media completely denigrates the product coming out of the CIA in one breath, and in the next tries to take the administration to task for not listening to CIA warnings. So which is it? Or do the scumbags in the media merely want it both ways?
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:49 Comments || Top||

#8  OP -- It's possible both documents were leaked by the same source. Imagine a Democrat who actually cares about national security -- there are a few -- getting sick and tired of watching his party's games.

These two leaks are a way of saying "GET SERIOUS!"
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/18/2003 13:25 Comments || Top||

#9  . W. Patrick Lang, former head of the Middle East section of the DIA,
anybody know this guy? a Clinton appointee?

There is an ex Spec Forces Col. that appears on "The News Hour" on PBS from time to time with that name...I think. He's introduced as a Middle East expert.
Posted by: Kentar || 11/18/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#10  The content that the Weekly Standard released certainly wasn't classified. Their article implied that they were in possession of Top Secret material. If they were given possession of a classified document, there should be heads rolling. If they were given a sanitized summary, there still should be an investigation and firing of the clowns involved. I would rather read Murat's barbs daily than know that I can't trust the folks that are holding Top Secret material.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/18/2003 21:10 Comments || Top||

#11  That's o.k., S.H., Murat seems to be very quiet concerning this blockbusting news.

Wonder why?
Posted by: LeftEnd || 11/19/2003 0:41 Comments || Top||


Korea
Nukes option by U.S. in Korea
EFL & Warm Fuzzies
The United States is committed to defending South Korea from an attack by the assclown in the North and would use nuclear forces if needed, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told the government here yesterday.
I love teamwork. And here is a quote that outlines a universal truth:
"We understand that weakness can be provocative, that weakness can invite people into doing things that they otherwise might not even consider," Mr. Rumsfeld told a joint news conference with South Korean Defense Minister Cho Young-kil.
This is a universal truth. Weakness is not only provocative, it is an invitation for destruction. All of the world—and in particular, Europe—have failed to grasp this simple yet true dictum. And this is why we are hated: While most of the world has for the better part of the last century has flinched in the face evil, America has stood steadfast and unflinching against any and all threats to our being. And it is in our strength that seeds of their envy have taken root. We never asked to be King-of-the-Hill. But when the rest of world abandoned their position atop the mountain, we remembered the Machiavellian rules of engagement.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/18/2003 5:53:25 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We never asked to be King-of-the-Hill. But when the rest of world abandoned their position atop the mountain, we remembered the Machiavellian rules of engagement."

-Great F*cking quote. Thank you.

Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:02 Comments || Top||

#2  Jarhead:

No. Thank you. Thank you for serving our country.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/18/2003 9:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Dragon Fly: my pleasure brother, it's an honor. Keep up the good posts.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:35 Comments || Top||

#4  Dragon Fly--That is a damn good line. Very nice choice of words!
Posted by: Dar || 11/18/2003 9:48 Comments || Top||

#5  I saw a TV documentary yesterday on the wretched life of the human pollutant who misrules North Korea. The producers believe that his latest belligerence is aimed at coercing $10,000,000,000 in "reparations" from Japan. They also claim that Clinton was gung-ho on attacking WMD facilities in NK, only to be squelched by the SKs, who believe that "11,000 missiles are aimed at Seoul." SK is becoming a secular-dhimmi state.
We may have to disregard their interests, if the NKs start producing effective ICBMs.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 11/18/2003 11:52 Comments || Top||

#6  The NORKS view negotiation and compromise as an act of weakness that is a tool of war, just like any other weapon. We do not have to be belligerent, but negotiating with Kimmie is about as productive as talking to a 2 by 4. Kimmie does understand power, so far. If the SKors start undermining our position, then we start pulling out. Appeasement has done nothing for 50 years except prolong human misery in the land of the NORK.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Zogby Attacks US Role in Middle East, or Dog Bites Man.
Dr. James J. Zogby
Having just returned from a short visit to the Arab region, I find the disconnect between the United States’ Middle East policy debate and realities in the region, has never been greater.
Unfortunately, the Koran incites Arab violence against the majority of citizens of the US.
The United States is now fully engaged on multiple fronts in the Arab world. In most instances the form that US engagement has taken is both unilateral and confrontational. Each of these new thrusts represents a break from traditional US diplomacy and the victory of the neo-conservative movement in shaping US Middle East policy.
"Confrontational"? Like facing off against the beasts who murdered 3,000 Americans, etc, on September 11, 2001.
"Don't do anything, George! It'll just make them madder!"
All at the same time, the United States is: occupying Iraq, challenging Syria with threats and sanctions, pressing for democratisation throughout the region, and allowing Israel to wreak havoc with the Palestinians while feigning support for "a visionary Middle East peace plan".
And that is all bad, Zogby?
The formulations underlying these various Middle East entanglements have been based on faulty ideologically derived assumptions. These include notions like: "they hate us because they hate our freedom" (thereby allowing the US to absolve itself from any responsibility in generating alienation and anger in the region); "they attack us because we have been weak and indecisive" (thereby validating the United States’ use of unrelenting force in an effort to force submission); and "once Arabs democratize, Palestine will lose its appeal as a radicalizing theme" (thereby justifying sidelining the peace process).
The hate-promotion didn’t begin on the 11th of September 2001. It did escalate from that day of infamy.
These have been accepted and have been made operational. In the process, we have not engaged in dialogue or listened to determine the true feelings of the Arab people.
Bull-feet! The State Department has been using Zogby, etc polling in Iraq. The CPA website posts some results: http://www.cpa-iraq.org/
Nor have we paid attention to history, even recent history, in an effort to understand how Arabs view their circumstances or see our role in contributing to their current problems.
Like supporting the existence of Israel, which is only 9 miles wide at one point.
After reading this stuff for a coupla years now, I've ceased to care how they view their circumstances. Repetition of the same old dull canards does that to me.
Hence the great disconnect. And as a result, the US role in the region is heading towards disaster.
As of 5 days ago, US troops in the Iraq theater, are conducting "Operation Iron Hammer" against the terrorists who are destabilizing the Sunni Triangle. If the uppity Sunnis don’t settle down, the CPA could bring in Kurds and Shia soldiers. That type of Iraqization could pay a peace dividend, to the majority.
While fault clearly can be placed on the shoulders of those who have trumped US diplomacy and forced this change in policy, the Arab side must accept some responsibility for this dismal state of affairs as well. Simply put, the Arab world has not engaged the US debate on terms that would challenge the bizarre assumptions of those who sought to wreak havoc in the region.
I'd say there's been a fair number of bizarre assumptions coming out of the Arab world...
For example, as the post-Camp David myth ("Barak offered the best deal ever. Arafat rejected it and resorted to violence.") was being projected in an effort to delegitimise Oslo and validate an all out assault to dismantle the Palestinian National Authority, the Palestinians offered no effective response.
Arafat delegitimized Oslo by reviving terror, which was his plan all along. Arabs aren’t the greatest engagers in debate.
Similarly, after the Arab League endorsed Crown Prince Abdullah’s striking initiative, little was done to nurture it. It died not because the United States and Israel ignored it but because the Arab side did not launch a campaign to elaborate it and to project the dramatic change it represented.
Abdullah plan: tactical recognition of Israel coupled with strategic annihilation of Israel. It can’t wash. Zogby: the Arab League also recognizes the Iraqi Governing Council. We pay attention here.
At the same time, while both the Saudis and Syrians have, in different ways, been under attack in the United States they have not responded in a manner proportionate to the challenges they faced. As a result, they have become more, not less, vulnerable to even sharper attacks.
"Challenges"? Objectively, they are and have always been aggressors.
Like it or not, the real struggle now being waged is not on the many battlefields of the Middle East but it is in the struggle over ideas that will shape the US policy debate in the minds of the American people. If America is the dominant force in the world then the struggle to make change must occur here and must be waged on the political front.
Unfortunately, as I write, only 52% of polled Americans accept that the Iraq-Liberation was worth it.
If America’s neo-conservatives are wrong then extremists in the Middle East are also wrong. Just as American force cannot impose itself or transform an unwilling and unprepared Middle East, those extremists who advocate force against the United States will also fail with their violence only serving to strengthen negative trends in American policy making.
"Those extremists who advocate force against the United States": most Muslim American organizations.
A third way must be found. There are Iraqis and other Arabs, for example, who are advocating an alternative path to the current, now failing, U.S. effort at pacification in Iraq. They should be supported and emboldened to bring their ideas into the American political debate.
Yeah they want a return to Saddam Hussein’s parasitic dictatorship.
Similarly the reform program advocated by Crown Prince Abdullah and Saudi voices for change like those of Prince Al Waleed must be encouraged to bring their ideas forward in a more dramatic and forceful way. Reformist currents among Syria’s leadership must be strengthened and that country’s fledging public diplomacy effort should be given an enhanced role because it is sorely needed.
Don’t kiss Saudi butt, Zogby. The Saudi "reform" movement is close to al-Qaeda.
Finally, critical initiatives like the recently negotiated Israeli-Palestinian Geneva Accords and what is called the Ayalon-Nusseibeh agreement, should also be pushed more aggressively since they build on the pre-Sharon peace effort and have the ability to refute the myth that "peace is impossible". Such efforts can strengthen the internal debate in Israel and the United States against the Likud mindset that currently dominates both countries’ policy-making establishments.
If an Arab majority didn’t accept the existence of Israel in 1947, they are not about to accept in now.
Change can come, but it will require a reassessment of Arab strategy. Passivity won’t work. Neither will force or threats of force-these only play into the hands of those who have the ability to use greater force in return. Neither will change come about by making appeals using concepts like "international legitimacy" that simply have no resonance in the United States.
Change will come when Arabs attribute their backwardness and belligerence to the mandates of Islam, and embrace the secular state.
If part of America’s trouble in the Arab world is due to the fact that it doesn’t listen to the Arab people and therefore speaks and acts in terms that do not address Arab concerns and realities, the same can be said of why Arabs are in trouble in the United States.
Arabs tend to speak in violence.
A new Arab strategic approach to the United States must be developed. Its need is immediate. As bad as the current situation may be, it can still get worse. There are political forces in the United States who want the confrontation to expand in order to sharpen the contradictions. Change will not come about by complaining about injustice. Whining is not a strategy.
Zogby, you are top-gun in the whine department.
A new approach that projects a new vision of the Arab word, real solutions to vexing problems, and the real humanity and aspirations of the Arab people can help change American minds and ultimately change American policy.
Unfortunately, a large number of Arabs want to restore an Islamofascist Khalifa. And I can’t think of one positive thing that Zogby has done to advance democracy and liberty.
Posted by: Anonon || 11/18/2003 3:30:05 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wonder if Zogy has domestic or imported cheese with all that wine?

Sounds like his solution is to"make nice"with those who would murder us in droves.

The only way to deal with bullies and thugs is to beat them down,if your friends refuse to help.They are not friends.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:23 Comments || Top||

#2  "they hate us because they hate our freedom"

-I always thought this was a stupid statement as well. But for differing reasons then Zogby. This was a pc statement made by the admin because they didn't have the nutz to say the real reason for fear of pissing off the domestic RoPers. They really hate us because we're infidels, not Muslims, & not in alignment w/their views. They hate us because we're a secular western "Satan" that supports an Israeli state's existence. They also hate us because of their own ethnocentrisms (yes, not a solely American phenomenon) -they look down on our culture and believe they are morally superior, the true people of God. That's the reason.

"they attack us because we have been weak and indecisive"

-This is a true statement, & they will continue to f*ck w/us if we show weakness & indecision. Zogby falls into the "thinking like a compassionate westerner crap" - I've said numerous times before the one's we're dealing w/don't understand that cultural more of ours. Deal w/people on their level in their terms. If they grudgingly respect brute force, use it.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 8:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Remember that Zogby is NOT "impartial" or "non-partisan", and since he sold his polling company to one of his major competitors has been a constant apologist for the Arab states. The man has NO credibility left, and is rapidly shedding any dignity and claim to intelligence he may have made in the past. A "Zogby Poll" used to mean something positive, now it's seen as just another slanderous party upchuck for the dummycheats.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 8:53 Comments || Top||

#4  er, IIRC the polling company is run by the brother (still? - I didn't know he sold it...) John Zogby. This is Jim Zogby, a noted apologist and, as noted above, a professional whiner about the misunderstood ROPma.
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Frank, Zogby sold out to Gallup about two years ago. They still "pretend" to be independent, but they're practically a department of CNN now. John and Jim aren't that far apart, politically, and whine in pitch.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 10:26 Comments || Top||

#6  All that and what he really means is Israel must die. That's the political debate.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 11:28 Comments || Top||

#7  didn't know that - thanks OP
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||


Korea
U.S. reassures Seoul over troops (and more for Down Under)
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is visiting U.S. troops based at the Korean peninsula’s tense Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) amid concerns in Seoul over Washington’s commitment to the region’s defense. Plans to move U.S. troops further away from the DMZ have prompted fears that those forces will no longer provide a "tripwire" defense against a surprise attack from North Korea.
Can’t live with us, can’t live without us.
Rumsfeld on Monday moved to reassure South Korean officials the pullback would in fact strengthen defense capabilities, not weaken them. In Rumsfeld’s view, moving U.S. troops farther south of the DMZ would enable the U.S. Army to respond more quickly to an attack by the North. As currently positioned, the Army would have to withdraw south of Seoul first, while in range of the North’s long-range artillery, before organizing a counteroffensive. The South Korea deployment changes form part of a much broader review of U.S. military forces in the Asia Pacific region, which is underpinning Rumsfeld’s six-day Asian trip. This could eventually include a reduction of troop numbers in South Korea and Japan.
Let the RoK forces handle the land war, and we’ll provide air and naval support. Then move the 2ID whereever we need it, and the 25ID moves as reserve to a different situation.
U.S. Army General Leon LaPorte, commander of the 37,000 U.S. forces in South Korea, said in an interview Monday a shrinkage of the U.S. military on the Korean Peninsula "may be one of the payoffs" from a multiyear plan for consolidating forces and introducing new military capabilities. But the realignment of the U.S. military footprint in the Asia Pacific — which currently numbers around 100,000 troops — is only in the planning stages, with many options being discussed amongst the allies in the region. Military analyst for the Australian Strategic Policy Institute Aldo Borgo">Aldo Borgo told CNN there were few specifics known about the reorganization because it was "still very much in development".
"That won’t stop me from commenting Say, where’s my speaking fee?"
Australian Defense Minister Robert Hill will be meeting with Rumsfeld in Washington on Thursday to discuss a wide range of joint military issues, chief among them the situation in Iraq. Australia would also be arguing for no overall reduction in military presence in the Asia Pacific region, but it was unlikely Canberra would seek any input into the shape of that commitment, Borgo said.
Since the Aussies are pals, we’ll listen.
Meanwhile, a spokeswoman for Australia’s Department of Defense dismissed a media report that the U.S. was considering asking Australia to establish a "logistics hub" in the northern city of Darwin as part of the reorganization. The Sydney Morning Herald, quoting an unnamed U.S. defense source, said Tuesday the proposal included an offer for the US to house large numbers of tanks, military vehicles, ammunition and artillery in Darwin. The U.S. stressed the "logistics and training facility" would not be permanently staffed by Americans and should not be called a military base, the newspaper reported. "We have said in the past there has been no suggestion of U.S. bases in Australia," Catherine Fitzpatrick, media adviser for the Defense Minister, told CNN. That position had not changed, she said, although there had been discussion of —- but no commitment to — joint Australian-U.S. training facilities.
Just the thing though to make sure the Indonesians know we’re around.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/18/2003 1:45:15 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We have said in the past there has been no suggestion of U.S. bases in Australia," Catherine Fitzpatrick, media adviser for the Defense Minister Robert Hill, told CNN.

-Bullshit, there sure as hell have. Its just not prudent at this time for Aussie politicians to make an affirmative statement on this. Heck, set up a log base in Darwin - I'll go in a heartbeat. Hand out canteen cups to Maori tribesmen & scrape bird shit off quanset huts, fine by me baby!
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Believe the Maori are in New Zealand. Which hosted the 1st MD in the big war. One uncle says the worst fighting he saw in the war was on Queen St. in Auckland.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#3  As shitty as the s-k's have been to us, those worthless ingrates, we should get ALL troops out of there. Let all those student leftists find out what life under Trollboy would really be like.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Ship - you're right. I should of said Aboriginies.....
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 13:24 Comments || Top||

#5  JH who cares.... I just wanted an excuse to mention what Uncle Jim called The Great Big Battle of Queen Street.

PS he was in China before and after.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 18:11 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Court to Rule on ’Enemy Combatant’ Label
A federal appeals judge said Monday it would be "a sea change" in the Constitution to allow the Bush administration to designate a U.S. citizen suspected in an alleged dirty bomb plot as an enemy combatant.
What'd they call 'em at Andersonville?
In a critical showdown between the government and civil rights lawyers, two members of a three-judge federal panel seemed hesitant to embrace the government’s reasoning for why Jose Padilla, 33, should be held indefinitely without access to a lawyer and without being charged. Padilla, a Muslim, is accused of plotting with al-Qaida to detonate a "dirty bomb," which uses conventional explosives to disperse radioactive materials. The former Chicago gang member was taken into custody in May 2002, and has spent most of the time since then in a naval brig in Charleston, S.C. In the two-hour hearing before the appeals panel Monday, Deputy Solicitor General Paul D. Clement suggested that the urgency of the war against terrorism necessitated such moves. "Al-Qaida made the battlefields the United States and they’ve given every indication they’re trying to make the United States the battlefield again," he said. The hearing marked the first time a U.S. government official has said a limited number of enemy combatants could eventually have access to an attorney. Clement told the judges that combatants such as Padilla — a U.S. citizen being held on U.S. soil — could get a lawyer once their value as intelligence sources has been exhausted. But Judge Barrington D. Parker Jr. said he believed the power to designate a U.S. citizen as an enemy combatant rested with Congress, rather than the president.
That’s shaky, the Constitution makes the President the commander of the armed forces and thus director of the war effort.
Giving such power to the executive branch with only limited review by the courts, he said, would be "a sea change in the constitutional life of this country and ... unprecedented in civilized society." Said Judge Rosemary S. Pooler, another member of the panel: "If, in fact, the battlefield is the United States, I think Congress has to say that, and I don’t think they have yet." Later, she added, "As terrible as 9/11 was, it didn’t repeal the Constitution."
Doesn't sound like it nudged certain judges into deep thought, either...
Specifically, the government was asking the court to overturn a finding by U.S. District Court Chief Judge Michael Mukasey that Padilla is entitled to meet with his lawyers and contest being designated as an enemy combatant. Jenny Martinez, a Stanford Law School professor who argued on Padilla’s behalf, said the government believed it could designate anyone, even a citizen, an enemy combatant at any time. "This new power government is looking for is entirely unprecedented," she said.
So was 9/11, Jenny.
The third judge on the panel, Richard C. Wesley, suggested the case shouldn’t have been brought in Manhattan. "This should be litigated in South Carolina," Wesley snapped.
"Too hot for me to handle. Let somebody else get lynched for letting a dirty bomber off after somebody manages to pop a dirty bomb."
The judges weren’t expected to issue their ruling for weeks if not longer. While two of three judges expressed doubts about the government’s arguments, they could still opt to refer the case to another court, as Wesley suggested.
Or they could hear it en banc.
Padilla was arrested at Chicago’s O’Hare airport as he returned from Pakistan. The government said he had proposed to Abu Zubaydah, then al-Qaida’s top terrorism coordinator, to steal radioactive material to detonate a dirty bomb in the United States. Only two other people have been designated enemy combatants since the 2001 terrorist attacks: Ali Saleh Kahlah Al-Marri, a citizen of Qatar who has been accused of being an al-Qaida sleeper agent, and Esam Hamdi, a Louisiana native captured during the fighting in Afghanistan.
I’m torn by this. Proper thing to do (says me) would be to charge Padilla with treason, give him a lawyer, and put him on trial. I don’t think folks would be fooled by his excuses.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/18/2003 1:31:15 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You have to remember that the Quirin Court observed that the charge of unlawful combatancy is distinct from treason and those who commit acts of unlawful combat or assist enemy states in the conduct of such operations are subject to trial as unlawful combatants.

Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 2:12 Comments || Top||

#2  If the dark side wins, then Congress might just have to redefine jihad criminality. I would include financiers of jihad, or: damn near every American Muslim. Avicenna's (ibn-Sina) book on "jihad" clearly links finance and support, with jihad. Hey, the good guys can't lose.
Posted by: Anonon || 11/18/2003 2:34 Comments || Top||

#3  I'm not torn by this at all. Padilla went to a foreign element to propose a strategic weapons attack on the USA. It is cut and dried in my view. He is a traitor and the USA best be rid of him.

I am afraid the legal profession in this country has lost its way. They would rather be enablers of foreign terrorist elements then to do the necessary work of killing them.
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 5:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Unfortantly they are correct,Padila is not an enemy combatant,he is a traitor.He should be tried as a traitor and if convicted of treason,hung by the neck until dead,dead,dead.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:59 Comments || Top||

#5  Padilla is clearly a treasonous bastard. That's not the issue here. The question is whether we're going to give the President or the Attorney General the right to hold American citizens incommunicado indefinitely with no judicial review at all. That's not been our practice in this country, and we should think long and hard about whether we want to accept it. There are a lot of options short of this extreme that can be used (even if a trail per se is impractical) to keep this guy and the scum like him out of circulation and extract whatever information they have without roundfiling the Bill of Rights.
Posted by: VAMark || 11/18/2003 8:18 Comments || Top||

#6  VAMark, elaborate. I'm tired of people saying there are other options but not providing any. It's lazy. And you just said trailing him is impractical. I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, it's just I'd like an alternative but I can't think of any that would be less 'offensive' to the Bill of Rights. But to be honest, if you aren't a terrorist, or a terrorist sympathizer I have yet to see any real effect on the Bill of Rights. It's all 'crying wolf' as far as I can tell.
Posted by: Swiggles || 11/18/2003 8:46 Comments || Top||

#7  Yeah, VAMark, you have a point. We shouldn't be holding these traitors. We should have shot them on the spot like we did when we caught U.S. citizens fighting for the Germans in WWII.
Posted by: Parabellum || 11/18/2003 9:08 Comments || Top||

#8  The question is whether we're going to give the President or the Attorney General the right to hold American citizens incommunicado indefinitely with no judicial review at all.

To me, that is a contraditction. And a contradiction is nothing more than an attempt to deceive and a deception is nothing more than a lie. The facts are that Padilla is not held incommunicado, otherwise no one would be aware of that condition. So let's get that straight once and for all. Were this Iraq or some other mobocracy, Padilla would be dead already and the government would deny having killed him.

If Padilla is being denied a lawyer as a prudent and minimal measure intended to prevent a character from going underground to plot more attacks against his country using strategic weapons, it is becuase the judicial system has been demonstrated time and again to be not up to the task of defending the USA against homegrown terrorists. The great expansion of criminal rights of the 60s and 70s is coming home to roost.

Detaining Padilla pending completion of a prosecutorial review of what to do with him is a sensible measure.

Detaining people whose release would constitute a danger to the public good is a long established means of preventative measures. You should read case law on this very matter where some folks have been held a lot longer for a lot less than Padilla and it was upheld by SCOTUS.

This isn't like somone rounded up a Mexican coz he looked like he may be Muslim. This guy was plotting an attack against the USA, which results would have been life-taking radiation in a city lasting thousands of years. Is Padilla's crimninal rights really worth that?
Posted by: badanov || 11/18/2003 9:11 Comments || Top||

#9  Give the guy a trial for treason. I suggest someplace in Harris County, Texas. It ain't the execution "Fair Trial" capital of the nation for nuthin...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 11/18/2003 9:18 Comments || Top||

#10  interesting that it was brought in Manhattan, and not South Carolina - judge shopping?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:29 Comments || Top||

#11  Try him for treason. Get this thing going. I thought his citizenship was in dispute but was wrong. He's a U.S. citizen which, I believe makes him treason material. He'll be found guilty, locked up or executed. If locked up, the prison population will take care of him if you know what I mean. If he gets off on some unforseen b.s. techno, he's deadmeat on the outside, rest assured. The guy is screwed either way - I feel better now.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:50 Comments || Top||

#12  Precedent has been that anyone who fights for another nation or militant group loses his/her US citizenship. Once citizenship is gone, then anyone attacking the United States would be a "foreign combattant", regardless of where they were born or call home. Dozens of Japanese and Germans who were INVOLUNTARILY inducted into the armies of Japan and Germany because they held dual citizenship and happened to be in those countries at the outbreak of hostilities were classified as 'foreign combattants', and it took direct action by Congress to restore their citizenship - usually on a case-by-case basis.

In this instance, the guy deliberately planned to wage war against his homeland for another political group. It should be the considered the same way Southern soldiers fighting for the Confederacy during our civil war were considered. The guy has relinquished his rights as a US citizen, and should reap the rewards of his stupidity.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 10:21 Comments || Top||

#13  Judge Parker's a moron, it seems. If there's anything that's pure executive branch, it's the war-making powers. Commander-in-chief and all that, maybe you twits will recognize the phrase, huh?

Congress funds, or not. That's their power.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:46 Comments || Top||

#14  doesnt the US have to declare someone a non-citizen for whatever reason. AFAIK Padilla was a citizen at the time of this arrest, and the admin considers him one to this day.

And of course the Pres has full power to wage war. he doesnt have unlimited power to decide what constitutes waging war. Can he decide that any terrorism related arrest that takes place on US soil is part of the war, and so he can determine that ANYONE arrested is an enemy combattant. IIUC the appeals court is saying that if the US homeland is to be considered the "battlefield" for the purpose of classifying someone as a non-combatant, congress needs to be involved in such declaration.

I see NO good outcome, either way. I see no clear means of trying Padilla that doesnt interfere with interrogations. OTOH I dont want to see the precedent of US citizens taken on US soil held as enemy combatants, without due process rights.

Hopefully more will become clear when this goes to the SCOTUS.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

#15  "What'd they call 'em at Andersonville"

POW's.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 14:51 Comments || Top||

#16  What'd they call 'em at Andersonville

Even the Swiss guy? (a fine point for sure)
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:59 Comments || Top||

#17  Returning late, let me clarify my point. Try him as a traitor if you can, but it may not be possible to allow him more than a sham defense without compromising security/classfied information. If that's the case, there should be some middle ground between the routine justice system that can't handle the situation and an unreviewable executive declaration that puts you away with no contact with the outside world indefinitely. Some kind of review, maybe similar to the "intelligence court" (FISA?) should be possible without compromising either security or interrogation.

Badanov - Webster's defines "incommunicado" as being held without contact with others. Without the knowledge of others isn't part of the definition. Calling somebody a liar over a fine point of definition is bad enough, but at least get it right.


Posted by: VAMark || 11/19/2003 0:13 Comments || Top||


Korea
U.S., Japan Agree to Pressure N. Korea
TOKYO (AP) - A senior U.S. envoy and Japan’s defense chief agreed to using ``dialogue and pressure’’ to persuade North Korea to abandon its suspected nuclear weapons development, officials said Tuesday.
"Here’s the deal: Shigeru, you do the "dialogue", and the rest of us will apply the pressure."
"Okay, Jim, fine with me, I’ll be the designated diplomat, but what’s all that on your laptop?"
"The airstrike."
"Oh. That qualifies as pressure."

The meeting came as Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly wrapped up the Tokyo leg of a three-nation Asia tour to coordinate policy ahead of multilateral talks expected next month on the North Korean nuclear dispute. Kelly and Defense Chief Shigeru Ishiba agreed to continue using ``dialogue and pressure’’ to resolve the yearlong nuclear crisis, Ishiba told reporters following the meeting.

``Resolving the matter diplomatically and peacefully does not mean accepting anything everything (North Korea) says,’’ Ishiba said. ``If it tries to benefit from nuclear weapons, weapons of mass destruction, missiles or threats...that is not acceptable,’’ Ishiba said.

The question of how to defuse the crisis over North Korea’s suspected development of nuclear weapons without compromising Japan’s defense was a focus of Kelly’s earlier talks with Japanese officials.
One way to fix the problem would be to allow the Japanese to develop their own nukes ... oops, did I say that?
The second round of six-nation talks aimed at ending North Korea’s nuclear weapons development is expected to take place on Dec. 17-18 in Beijing, a senior South Korean official said Monday. ``It has not been officially announced, but the general mood is moving in that direction,’’ National Security Adviser Ra Jong-yil said. He added that the nuclear talks involving the two Koreas, Japan, the United States, China, and Russia would be held in the Chinese capital, Beijing.

Japan was pissed shaken when North Korea test-fired a missile over its territory in 1998 and has been moving ahead with plans for a U.S.-developed missile shield.

Kelly and his Japanese counterpart on Monday discussed the possibility of Washington offering written security assurances to North Korea in exchange for a full dismantling of its nuclear program. North Korea has made further negotiations contingent upon such a pact.
NKors offer the usual "something for nothing" deal: we give them something, they give us nothing.
But the prospect of the United States offering such assurances to North Korea has raised some concern in Japan that the U.S.-Japan security alliance could be compromised, leaving this country more vulnerable to a threat from the communist nation. Washington has assured Tokyo it would not make any arrangements with any other country that would undermine their mutual security pact.

Kelly reiterated Washington’s position on the matter in the morning meeting, a Defense Agency spokesman said. Following his meetings Monday, Kelly said the two sides were hopeful that a new round of negotiations with North Korea could be held next month.
At which time we’ll see how the grass diet is going in NKor land.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/18/2003 1:24:21 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I would be suprised if Japan didn't have nukes.
Posted by: mike messina || 11/18/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

#2  What is the point of any more talks, especially 6-way talks? Last time the NORKS dropped a nuclear-tipped turd in the ChiCom's punchbowl, much to their chagrin. These talks so far are nothing but a per-diem festival. If Kimmie finally has something to offer, I am sure that he knows how to get hold of us.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 15:07 Comments || Top||


East Asia
Japan won’t bow to terror threats
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said Monday Japan would not be intimidated by terrorists after a reported Al Qaeda threat to attack Tokyo spooked share and foreign exchange markets.
"Lemme get this straight: You guys with the turbans, you say you're gonna beat up on us? The guys with the bushido? Oh, hold me, Katsumi! I am so frightened! Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh..."
The London-based Saudi newspaper Al-Majallah reported that it had received a statement from Al Qaeda warning Japan not to sent troops to Iraq and claiming a suicide bombing against Italian forces last week. “Terrorist threats have been made everywhere in the world. We must not give in to the threats,” Koizumi told reporters. The foreign ministry said Japan was investigating the credibility of the threat. “We are collecting information related to the report through the Japanese embassy in London,” a ministry official said. “First, we need to confirm the credibility of the report.” In an e-mail received by the Saudi weekly, Abu Mohammed al-Ablaj, purporting to be an Al Qaeda leader, warned the Japanese against sending troops to join the US-led coalition in Iraq. “If they want to destroy their economic power and be trampled under the feet of the combatants of Allah, let them come to Iraq,” he said. “Our strikes will reach the heart of Tokyo.” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda played down the report. “We have received a lot of similar information since September 11th,” he told reporters.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 01:10 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  trampled under the feet of the combatants of Allah

LOL. Sorry, makes me laugh every time I read this.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 1:17 Comments || Top||

#2  Typical Islamo insanity.Don't these' fools realize that Japan is the Home and Birthplace of the Samuri and Ninja.Hell,they gave birth to the concept of the suicide bomber.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:51 Comments || Top||

#3  Hell,they gave birth to the concept of the suicide bomber.

Good point... (mental image of Japanese judges holding up cards with 3's and 4's on them after an Al Qaeda attack).

Seriously, Al Qaeda might find some willing allies amongst Japanese leftists (eliminating the need to infiltrate Arab shooters). It was a Japanese group (Japanese Red Army) that shot up the Tel Aviv airport in the 70s as a favor to the Palestinians. Are any of those groups still active?
Posted by: snellenr || 11/18/2003 10:00 Comments || Top||

#4  There's a lot of wierd politics in Nippon, and some of the fringes get real violent. Hell, they had riots and such over the placement of an airport not that long ago. Wierd.

If the fundieboomers look around, they'll find sympathizers. Unfortunately.
Posted by: mojo || 11/18/2003 10:40 Comments || Top||

#5  they had riots and such over the placement of an airport not that long ago.

The airport in question is Narita and they are still pissed about it. The government did the eminent domain thing and took the land from some farmers. Couple of times a year one of the far left groups fires homemade rockets or mortars at the airport. They never hit anything and the government tries to keep it quiet, the tourists might get nervous. They also fire on US bases in Japan with the same mortars, happened at Yokota and Camp Zama this year. I think they aim at empty parts of the bases to keep from hurting anyone.
The far right drives around the bases with black vans with big loudspeakers on top blaring speeches telling the US to go home. They just do this during the day because it wouldn't be polite to disturb peoples sleep at night. It's a Japanese thing.
Posted by: Steve || 11/18/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#6  The airport in question is Narita

Same thing when they were building the new Osaka airport. Aparently someone was not pleased that they had to reduce the size of a few mountains to get the earth needed to build the new airport on water. Novel idea, but due to a critical decision made during construction to save costs, the airport is now sinking a couple of inches every year.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#7  You can bet your ass that Islamic murderers will carry out a soft target hit on Japan. How Japan reacts will be interesting, no?
Posted by: Lucky || 11/18/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#8  How Japan reacts will be interesting, no?

Akihito turns the samurai loose on the mutts.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/18/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon
ME target of colonialist and Zionist plot: Syria
Syrian Defense Minister General Mustapha Tlass warned on Monday of a “colonialist and Zionist plot” being hatched against the Middle East, the official news agency Sana said.
"Yes, by Gawd! It's Deep Laid Plots™!"
“There is a bid to implement a colonialist and Zionist plot with a view to securing the riches of the region and undermining its culture and heritage,” Tlass said.
"Yes! They're gonna despoil us Syrians of our... ummm... what do we make, again?"
He singled out a draft law passed by the US Congress on Tuesday providing for economic and diplomatic sanctions against Syria, accused by Washington of supporting terrorism and seeking weapons of mass destruction. The law is “a weapon in the hands of the White House hawks” which seeks to “terrorize Syria and force it ultimately to renounce its right to recuperate its land occupied” by Israel in 1967, Tlass said. The Syria Accountability and Lebanese Sovereignty Act provides for a range of retaliatory options for punishing Syria, from restricting US exports and business investment to downgrading Washington’s diplomatic representation and imposing travel restrictions on Syrian diplomats in the United States. The bill also bans the export of “dual-use” technology, allows the US government to freeze Syria’s assets in the United States and restrict overflight rights for Syrian aircraft inside US airspace.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 01:02 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Bekka Valley grows delicious dates. Yeah, that's it. A War for Dates!
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/18/2003 8:38 Comments || Top||

#2  NO BLOOD FOR DATES!!

Considering the middle east and islam is a culture of death and splodeydopes, perhaps 'underiming its culture and heritage' is a good thing.
Posted by: Swiggles || 11/18/2003 8:59 Comments || Top||

#3  interesting that Syrian Defense Minister General Mustapha Tlass still has a job after the IAF buzzed Assad's palace. Guess that shows who's running the place, and it ain't the boy optometrist dictator
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:46 Comments || Top||

#4  Tlass has been Min of Defense for 31 years, and is probably the most connected man in the Baath Party. He's not the power behind the throne, he's one of its pillars. I actually have a soft spot for him; he's the guy who said on Syrian national TV than Yasser was descended from 60 thousand whores.
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 10:09 Comments || Top||

#5  Maybe it was something about all the counterfitting of US money that takes place there.

Maybe it was being stupid enough to suck up to Saddam when it was obvious we were going to take him down.

Maybe we just don't care about the rights and wrongs of the Palestinians so long as they use stupid and immoral ways of waging war, and that Comrade Bashir is aiding and abetting them.

Maybe the goof-ball conspiracy theorists are right about Saddam's WMD program having decamped for Damascus.

It's not like we lack reasons.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/18/2003 11:16 Comments || Top||

#6  Chuck,
the Bekaa grows lovely Poppies and the Syrians have been raking in the filthy lucre for years. Whereas the States has its Columbia the Eurotypes have Syria.
Posted by: Barry || 11/18/2003 11:26 Comments || Top||

#7  I propose a new roadmap, one that leads through Damascus, Riyadh, Teheran, and Islamabad, and ends up with a bunch of turbantops hanging from telephone poles along the way. Anybody that gets in the way gets ran over by a steamroller. All such incidents will be marked with an "X".
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 12:09 Comments || Top||

#8  Fred--

When are you going to write a book, damn you?
Posted by: Brian (MN) || 11/18/2003 12:25 Comments || Top||

#9  OP---It sounds like you have the plan for the Grand Tour™. My head must be in aviation this day. I read your "turbantops" as "turboprops" and it initially did not make any sense. LOL!
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/18/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||

#10  kinda funny how the tune changes when we finally begin to protect ourselves. now the us is the big bad bully! blah..blah.. should of thought of that before you decide to support terrorists!
Posted by: Dan || 11/18/2003 18:08 Comments || Top||


Central Asia
Uzbek executions 'lack justice'
Uzbekistan must stop executing dozens of people annually without giving them access to a proper justice system, a leading human rights group has said.
"Stop that this instant!"
Amnesty International on Tuesday called on the former Soviet state to end its use of the death penalty. It said executing people was irresponsible “where torture is systematic, corruption is unchecked at every stage ... and where courts apply the death penalty without the guidance of objective and publicly accessible sentencing criteria". Amnesty said that in many cases "family members do not know for months, sometimes even years whether their relative is alive or has been executed". Once informed that an execution has taken place, relatives "many search for years in the hope of finding the grave" as the authorities often refuse to release information about where the dead have been buried, Amnesty said. Amnesty also criticised countries it said had been involved in extraditing individuals to Uzbekistan who had then been sentenced to death and possibly tortured — namely Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. In July the United Nations Human Rights Committee strongly criticised Uzbekistan's execution of six people whose cases were awaiting the committee's consideration. On Tuesday Amnesty said it knew of at least nine young men who had been executed despite interventions by the committee. Uzbekistan's President Islam Karimov has been a key supporter of US-led anti-terrorism efforts centred on neighbouring Afghanistan and some have argued that US support has given added legitimacy to his regime.
Somehow it's always our fault, isn't it?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:09 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Amnesty international report does not mention who those people are who were executed. Though agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions. From Uzbekistan I know that they have a lot of trouble with radical Taliban like extremists from neighbouring Tajikistan, if the executed are terrorists it is not bad at all.
Posted by: Murat || 11/18/2003 4:46 Comments || Top||

#2  “where torture is systematic, corruption is unchecked at every stage ... and where courts apply the death penalty without the guidance of objective and publicly accessible sentencing criteria".

That's the US system all right.
Thanks Murat.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 7:40 Comments || Top||

#3  What court do you have on Guantanomo, do the captives even if they are Taliban have a personal lawyer.
Posted by: Murat || 11/18/2003 8:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Gitmo detainees are not in the criminal system, at least not yet. Nor are they being executed unless by their own hand. [sarcasm] Perfect parallel otherwise, though [/sarcasm]
Posted by: VAMark || 11/18/2003 8:20 Comments || Top||

#5  Re: Gitmo, we should have just followed the Geneva Conventions with respect to illegal combatants. That is we should have executed them on the spot. Oh that's right, lefty's conveniently forget that aspect of the GC. Oh well, and Murat, how many of the Gitmo prisoner's have been executed? Yeah, that's what I thought. So, how about you just keep your stinkhole shut until you have a f&cking clue what you are talking about. Some friends of yours being held in Gitmo?
Posted by: Swiggles || 11/18/2003 8:39 Comments || Top||

#6  So that's your defence no executions in Gitmo? What's your prove? Besides what gives the US the right to use Gitmo as a place free of law?
Posted by: Murat || 11/18/2003 9:09 Comments || Top||

#7  to get back on topic, and surprise, to go to the left of Murat (unless he was just setting up his gitmo attack)

from what ive read Karimov has NOT only killed terrorists, but also political opponents. He runs an authoritarian state, at least as much so as Egypt and in some ways as bad as Saudi. While we may need him for now, cause of Afghanistan, if the WOT is truely going to be a war for freedom, as Bush said recently, we need to keep our distance from Karimov, and prepare for the day we break with him.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/18/2003 9:10 Comments || Top||

#8  that's fine LH - Murat was only trying to emulate AI - it's all our fault. When AI goes after the honor killings in Muslim society I'll start listening, until then they should STFU
Posted by: Frank G || 11/18/2003 9:13 Comments || Top||

#9  "agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions."

-Yeah, right. Except for the fact that our criminals get lawyers, trials that can last for months, and about a dozen appeals (& that's being conservative) of the conviction. You want to see some good death penalty cases - check out China. I believe its the first Tuesday of the next month after your convicted you get shot in the public square & your family is billed the 27 cents it took to make the bullet they used to kill you with. Sounds good to me.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/18/2003 9:33 Comments || Top||

#10  Murat was only trying to emulate AI

I couldn't tell (until I cut & pasted it) whether the last letter was an "L(ell)" or an "I(eye)". The sentence actually makes more sense if it's the latter...
Posted by: snellenr || 11/18/2003 10:05 Comments || Top||

#11  Though agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions.

Who says it has to be humane? It is usually the most vilest of criminals that are put to death in the U.S., and as such, they generally deserve it. The only thing inhumane about it is that it tends to take so long to carry out (esp. here in CA).
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

#12  what gives the US the right to use Gitmo as a place free of law?

Because Gitmo is not American soil. It is on lease from Cuba. The Supreme Court is considering the case of the detainees at Gitmo, with a decision expected in July, although interestingly they will not consider the fate or status of the detainees, but rather the status of the base itself. If it rules that Gitmo is indeed American soil, then the courts also have jurisdiction over Gitmo, and you can argue that each detainee is entitled to a lawyer. However don't hold your breath for the Supreme Court to decide whether the detainees are POWs or illegal combatants; that's for the executive branch to decide and they're not going to interfere with the president.
(BTW, does somebody know what the legal status of Gitmo really is?)
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 10:46 Comments || Top||

#13  does somebody know what the legal status of Gitmo really is?

Nevermind. It was a 1903 lease agreement, extended in 1934 in perpetuity (for a yearly fee of $2000 worth of gold, lol).
Posted by: Rafael || 11/18/2003 11:07 Comments || Top||

#14  In February 1903, the United States agreed to lease 45 square miles of land and water at Guantanamo Bay for use as a coaling station. The treaty was finalized and the document was ratified by both governments and signed in Havana in December of that year. A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year, to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. Treasury Dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cuba governments, or the abandonment of the base property by the U.S.

I'm told that the U.S. Treasury mails a check every year to Cuba, which has never cashed them (since Castro took over).
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/18/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#15  Two things need clarifying, and I doubt if AI would answer either point truthfully:

1. What is the definition of "Justice"?
2. How is that definition NOT being implemented in Uzbekistan?

It's not up to AI to impose a system of Justice on any nation, nor to demand that any SOVEREIGN STATE obey the laws or accept the definition of justice of other nations. My personal definition of JUSTICE is the evaluation of a clash between two or more free men to determine:
a) if any personal rights were violated;
b) if so, by what degree;
c) by whom;
and d) what should be done to rectify the situation?

Killing someone is the ultimate violation of their personal rights. Executing a killer is not retribution, but an insurance against anyone else losing their life because of this uncontrolled $$#%#@$#@. "Law" is the imposition of punishment based on the violation of the rights of individuals, and is an attempt to impose controls on those who either refuse to or cannot control themselves.

Anything else is tyranny. The gravest tyranny against free men is the tyranny of uncontrolled law.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/18/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#16  MuRat - Do you really think you should comment on this one? Especially with your countries history on capital punishment? If your a Kurd there is no due process.
Posted by: Dan || 11/18/2003 14:37 Comments || Top||

#17  As I said yesterday, could Murat some slack. Of course as anyone who has had too much leftist indoctrination he couldn't help himself in making a snide anti-US remark but notice that he also told that is was a good thing to execute Taliban.
Posted by: JFM || 11/18/2003 15:29 Comments || Top||

#18  Sorry JFM.

Are we rewarding by approximation?
If so.

Murat yes! Good to execute Taliban after full (Western) review. Sorry to snap at ya!


Posted by: Shipman || 11/18/2003 17:42 Comments || Top||

#19  yes, Karimov is trying to be independent, like Yugoslav's Tito, of the Khazak/Khyrgyz axis with Russia- but I believe he has also executed some by boiling them alive. That is a bit hard to stomach.
Central Asia is set to become the new Middle East in the 80 year old resource war.
Let Murat speak- or this will become an echo room.
I know what "we" think, I want to know what the other side thinks!
Posted by: alzaebo || 11/18/2003 23:18 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Egypt pushes for Palestinian truce
An Egyptian mediator and Palestinian leaders have agreed to seek a ceasefire from resistance groups. But a senior Palestinian official on Monday said such a ceasefire would succeed only with US pressure on Israel.
I'm not sure it'll come. I think both the U.S. and Israel were pretty disgusted with the last one.
The Palestinian Authority and Egyptian officials were to begin separate talks with the groups in Gaza in the coming days with expectations for a session including all sides in Cairo by the end of November. The mediator, Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman, would send his deputy to Gaza on Wednesday, said Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath in Ramallah. "God willing, there will be a truce and a dialogue," said Suleiman after meeting Arafat and Prime Minister Ahmad Qurei in Ramallah on Monday. Palestinian officials said a truce pact would be presented to Israel with a request that it take reciprocal steps. "We demand US commitments or guarantees to ensure the Israelis do not take action that leads to the collapse of a new truce," said Nabil Abu Rdinah, senior aide to President Yasser Arafat.
Demand and be damned.
"The Americans must press Israel to stop assassinations and all forms of attacks so the new truce can survive," Rdinah said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:05 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "God willing, there will be a truce and a dialogue," said Suleiman after meeting Arafat and Prime Minister Ahmad Qurei in Ramallah on Monday.

"We need the time because the PA still owes us for the last dozen arms shipments through the tunnels..."
Posted by: Pappy || 11/18/2003 0:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Let me read this agin....Nope,not a word about halting the bombing of buss',resturants,etc.

Same old tired song and dance.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 8:31 Comments || Top||

#3  This calling for a truce is all a steamy pile of crap. Palestinian terror groups are required to be disbanded, as per GWB's "roadmap", and attacks against Israeli civilians halted. If they are not going to comply with these requirements, then the Paleo terror groups need to be pounded into dust. If it grinds pieces of the Palestinian Authority into powder also, tough. If terrorism is going to be stamped out, terrorists need to be disposed of promptly to avoid letting them pass on their poisonous leanings to others.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/18/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#4  Bomb-o-rama,
Colin is already getting on the Genva Bandwagon so GWB's roadmap seems to be at a dead end :-((
Posted by: Barry || 11/18/2003 11:30 Comments || Top||

#5  Egypt needs to worry about the tunnels and not a truce deal. Hypocrits.
Posted by: Charles || 11/18/2003 13:25 Comments || Top||

#6  Yep, I truly gotta hand it to the adjacent Jew haters a.k.a. Palestinians and their Arab supporters looking for a club with spikes to crash Israeli heads: they have become total experts in "truce management" ---- so that suicide bombing and Palestinian terrorism can continue unobstructed...
Posted by: AT || 11/18/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||


The memo...
If you're looking for the article on the memo, it's here.
Tech note: If you link to an article, please use the Link or Browse link below the article. Clicking on the headline takes you to an anchor on the page, which won't be there when we start a new day. LINK gives you a full-page link, BROWSE gives you the single article page.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/18/2003 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I've been searching through news sources from the past 5 years to try to match up the Standard's account of events with mainstream news sources. It's tough work, but it should be finished by Thursday for Winds of Change if anybody's interested.

Once again, my apologies to Fred for eating up his bandwith by accidentally double-posting the whole thing.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/18/2003 0:30 Comments || Top||

#2  I cut the second entry, and I added some comments. Nice job, Dan.
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 0:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Dan, I wasn't being snarky about bandwidth, and given the problems people had accessing TWS, it's good you posted it here. Apologies,
Posted by: Steve White || 11/18/2003 1:18 Comments || Top||

#4  I didn't mean to imply that you were, Steve, I was being sincere :)
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/18/2003 1:30 Comments || Top||

#5  Was anybody else haveing problems late yesterday afternoon(AZ,time)?
Posted by: Raptor || 11/18/2003 7:05 Comments || Top||

#6  I restarted the server around 4.30, Eastern time.
Posted by: Fred || 11/18/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||



Who's in the News
61[untagged]

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog











On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Tue 2003-11-18
  Istanbul bombing mastermind fled to Syria
Mon 2003-11-17
  John Muhammad: Guilty.
Sun 2003-11-16
  Shia leader held over Azam Tariq killing
Sat 2003-11-15
  Explosions rock Istanbul synagogues
Fri 2003-11-14
  Former CAIR Director Sentenced
Thu 2003-11-13
  House-to-House Raids in Saddam Hometown
Wed 2003-11-12
  24 Italians dead in Nasiriyah boom
Tue 2003-11-11
  New Afghan Operation Under Way
Mon 2003-11-10
  Soddy troops head to Mecca
Sun 2003-11-09
  18 Held in Oct. Hotel Attack in Baghdad
Sat 2003-11-08
  Major attack in Riyadh
Fri 2003-11-07
  Accusation of a coup plan as Mauritania election nears
Thu 2003-11-06
  Attack of the Meccaboomers
Wed 2003-11-05
  Iranian role in Hakim assassination?
Tue 2003-11-04
  Pakistan Army Kills Two Al-Qaida

Better than the average link...



Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
54.196.105.235
Help keep the Burg running! Paypal:
(0)    (0)    (0)    (0)    (0)