Jews urged to stop playing Holocaust victim
by
Monday 26 January 2004 4:41 PM GMT
The state of Israel was declared shortly after the Holocaust
Jews should stop "playing the victim" for the Holocaust, European respondents to an anti-Semitism poll have said.
Thirty-five per cent of those polled by the Ipso research institute said Jews "should stop playing the victim for... persecutions of 50 years ago".
The poll also revealed that 46% of those asked feel Jews in their nations have a "mentality and lifestyle" different to that of other citizens.
Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera commissioned the poll which was conducted in Italy, France, Belgium, Austria, Spain, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany, and Britain.
Middle East Conflict
POLL FINDINGS
- 35% said Jews should stop "playing the victim" for the Holocaust
- 46% believe Jews are different
- 40.5% believe Jews have "a particular relationship with money"
It was released a day before many European countries mark a day of remembrance for Holocaust victims.
About 40.5% said Jews in their country have "a particular relationship with money", nearly 18% said they feel Judaism is "intolerant", and almost 17% did not consider Jews "real" compatriots.
The poll suggested the attitude of Europeans towards Jews was linked to criticism of Israel over the Middle East conflict.
More than 71% of those polled said Israel should leave the occupied territories and Palestinians should stop attacking Israeli targets.
Anti-Semitism
And only 68% said they believe Israel has a right to exist, and the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is "making the wrong choices".
Jewish leaders have expressed concern over the pollâs findings.
"Obviously the virus of anti-Semitism is far more resilient and determined than we might have thought in the past," said Rabbi David Rosen, of the American Jewish Committee.
Rosen, who is based in Israel, said he believed the rise in anti-Semitism is due to the half-century that has passed since the horrors of the last world war.
"The moral implications of anti-Semitism simply donât speak to a younger generation of Europeans"
Rabbi David Rosen,
The American Jewish Committee
Holocaust survey
"The moral implications of anti-Semitism simply donât speak to a younger generation of Europeans," he said.
"Whatâs more amazing than the percentage of people who hold those opinions is the percentage of people willing to express them."
The poll findings come a few days after a survey found more than one in seven Britons believe the scale of the Holocaust has been exaggerated.
The Jewish Chronicle survey also showed nearly 20% of those questioned believe a Jewish prime minister of Britain would be less acceptable than a member of any other faith.
Another recent survey for the European Union found most people on the continent identified Israel as the biggest threat to world peace.
#2
Tell ya what instead Arabs should stop playing the victims of every conspiracy they can imagine up and some that are so bizarre that they MUST have been smoking some really good hashish to even put together.
Posted by: Val ||
01/26/2004 22:03 Comments ||
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#4
My hunch is this was written by the same troll who visited us last week. He posted a few articles that were attributed to Canadian newspapers, but could not be linked back to the actual source. I don't read postings that I can't check on. We were trolling along on moonlight....
This will really drive the superstitious wild. Go to the link.
Zorro, a military working dog for the 379th Expeditionary Security Forces Squadron, relaxes after a vigorous afternoon of training at forward deployed location, Jan. 1, 2004. Sun goggles protect military working dogsâ eyes from the sun just like sunglasses worn by their handlers and trainers. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Lakisha Croley)
BTW, can someone tell my why my referral logs suddenly are full of referrals from images.google.ca and other foreign countries? Referral log spam?
A senior Afghan official in southeastern Zabul province escaped unhurt but his two guards were injured when their convoy was ambushed by the Taliban overnight, officials said on Saturday. The attack occurred near Zabulâs capital Qalat late on Friday, provincial security chief Mohammed Ayub said. A bullet passed through the turban of Mohibullah, chief of Zabulâs district, while his two guards were hit, one of them seriously, he said. âSecurity forces arrested a well-known Taliban fighter after an exchange of fire which lasted for more than an hour,â he said.
Bet he's gonna frame that turban...
Mr Mohibullah was on his way to Qalat to visit an Afghan aid organisation when the attack took place. Mr Ayub, who did not identify the lone Taliban fighter, said the militant had confessed to having been trained in Pakistan.
The ones they catch in Pakistan confess to having been trained in Afghanistan...
In a separate attack, two rockets were fired overnight at a school in Jona village of Charbolak district in northern Balkh province. No one was injured and there was little damage, local police commander Akram Khakrizwal said on Saturday. Hekâs boyz once again demonstrating their unequalled accuracy ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:37:29 AM ||
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#1
Let's provide a Kevlar turban liner to all the Afghans that we like.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:48 Comments ||
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Joyful Iraqi pilgrims arriving in Saudi Arabia on Sunday said they would thank God for ending the rule of Saddam Hussein in prayers during haj pilgrimage but other Arabs were thinking of the US occupation. "I hope God will give Iraq strength and make it strong and united after all these years of pain, sickness and war," said Thabet Karim Jassem of Baghdad, part of 300 Iraqis who arrived at a haj terminal in the port city of Jeddah, near Mecca. Jassem was among thousands of Iraqis that had been stranded on the Kuwait-Iraq border last week over visa problems. More than 32,000 Iraqis were chosen by lottery to perform the haj this year, the first pilgrimage for post-Saddam Iraq. "We remained nine days at the border, it was a very miserable time for thousands," said Bakkar Rasoul, a Kurdish eye doctor from Suleimaniya. "But I am really happy that we are free and God helped us to visit Mecca. I and many people are thankful towards the United States because they were able to release us and we will definitely never forget. I donât think any Muslim can forget this," he said, standing by Kurdish and Iraqi flags beside the Iraqi pilgrims.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:56:39 AM ||
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"we will definitely never forget"
Why do I suspect that 'never' means two weeks from today?
At least two unnamed nuclear scientists deposited proceeds from the alleged transfer of secrets to Iran in foreign accounts in Dubai, government sources said. These accounts were being operated through a Dubai-based bank, which has already provided the required information to Pakistani authorities. Iranian authorities have confirmed the existence of these bank accounts. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the US government also had the full details of the financial transactions that took place between the Pakistani scientists and their Iranian sources.
I imagine that's the way the information got to Pakland. I doubt Perv's myrmidons would have been willing to capable of digging it out.
President Pervez Musharraf has said some individuals were involved in nuclear proliferation, as a probe continues into alleged leaks of nuclear secrets to Iran and Libya. âIt was some individuals who for personal gains were involved in some sort of proliferation,â Musharraf told the Associated Press of Pakistan (APP). It is âvery sad that any person leaves aside his national interests for some personal gains,â he told the state news agency after talks with US Vice President Dick Cheney in Davos on Saturday.
He got another reading of the riot act, I'm guessing...
Pakistani authorities are questioning at least eight scientists and administrators of the key uranium enrichment facility Khan Research Laboratories (KRL) in connection with the probe. The government has said it will take stern action against anyone found guilty of proliferation. Security sources said Dr. Farooq Mohammad, a director general of KRL in charge of overseas procurement, was one of the key suspects and is known for his close relationship with Qadeer Khan. Farooq was the first scientist to be detained at the start of the probe. His four KRL colleagues have since been cleared and released.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:29 ||
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Fred-
I think one question that should be asked here is just how many more times we're going to read Perv the riot act before we sit him down face to face and say, "The next time...we will send the troops in, and it's entirely possible that one of our Ranger teams could mistake your weapons facilities for terrorist camps..."
I've always felt from the beginning that he needs us now a lot more than we need him, even though he'd like to believe otherwise. Let's make him an offer he can't refuse.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
01/26/2004 11:04 Comments ||
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Muslims must undergo comprehensive reforms in order to make progress and overcome challenges, Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd said in an address to the Makkah conference organized by the Muslim World League. In his opening address, read out by Makkah Governor Prince Abdul Majeed, King Fahd urged Muslim youth to shun extremism and uphold the Islamic values of kindness and benevolence.
Yup. That oughta do it. Problem's solved. What's for lunch?
King Fahd attributed the weakness of the Ummah to Muslim countriesâ reluctance to implement the Shariah. He urged Muslims to strengthen their relationship with God and fellow humans.
Oh, yasss. That's the problem. Not enough shariah...
Dr. Abdullah Al-Turki, the leagueâs secretary-general, said it was time for Muslims to discard reactionary attitudes. âWe should instead work out strategies and plans to confront challenges,â he said. Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, the grand mufti, highlighted the leagueâs role in projecting the correct picture of Islam to the outside world. He also commended the Kingdomâs efforts to unify the Muslim ranks.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:24 ||
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...King Fahd has been about as coherent as a large mushroom for about a decade now. Assuming he even knew the speech was being given in his name, he forgot it before his lunch rolled around.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
01/26/2004 11:15 Comments ||
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#2
--We should instead work out strategies and plans to confront challenges,â --
Silly me, I thought that's what they're doing now. Then actually following thru on their strategies and plans to see what works and what doesn't.
The coalition for democracy, a Saudi opposition organization, held a conference in London in which it discussed the future of democracy in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
My guess is that it'll be ephemeral. What's yours?
The participants among activists in the area of political action, and the human rights stressed the need of political reform in Saudi Arabia, being an internal national need before being an external demand. The conference discussed the position of the Saudi government on democratic reforms, human rights and the role of civil society establishments. According to its organizers, the conference concentrated on means of disseminating democracy and the role of the international society in supporting its march and human rights in the kingdom.
I'd start by shooting holy men...
News reports said that the participants were unanimous in rejecting democracy prescribed by means of force and stressed that the conferees agreed to make the change by Saudis themselves. The chairman of the Saudi center for human rights warned against the American interference in exporting democracy to the Kingdom. He called on Washington to stop supporting what he called the dictator regimes.
I'm a little confused by that one. We shouldn't export democracy to Soddy Arabia, but we should stop supporting dictator regimes, presumably referring to Soddy Arabia...
In addition to its organizers, the conference was attended by the Saudi center for human rights, the national coalition for democracy in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Institute in Washington and several Saudi activists and intellectuals in the field of defending democracy and human rights as well as foreign experts. Among the key figures which talked in the conference were Madawi al-Rasheed, the teacher of social humanitarian sciences at Kings College in London; Ali Elyami the research at the Saudi Institute in support of democracy in Washington, Hamza al-Hassan of the national coalition for democracy and the editor of the Saudi affairs magazine in London. In January 2003, the Saudi Institute in Washington organized the first conference on the future of democracy in Saudi Arabia at the House of Lords in London.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:19 ||
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Yemen confessed to hosting eight families, most of them children and women, belonging to the former Iraqi regime. It said Yemen is the homeland of all Arabs and entertaining these families comes out of the fraternal, nationalistic and humanitarian feelings.
They've also got their own Baathist movement...
And it expressed its surprise over what it called "Zionist" media campaign about this issue. The state-run newspaper, 26 September, which is close to Presidential Office, quoted a senior official as saying "This campaign is administrated by Zionist forces malicious and hostile to Yemen and its nationalistic and pan-Arab positions that support the Palestinian issue." The official denied the news reports that Saddam's family had taken refuge in Yemen clarifying that the country did not receive a request thereof, as President Ali Abdullah Saleh told the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Ray Al Am, last week.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:50 ||
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Yemen denied that two Yemenis had been killed when American troops raided a house in the "Balad" area in Baghdad, earlier this week.
"Nope. Nope. Never happened..."
A responsible official said, "There was no Yemeni citizen in the that house, and those who said they were Yemenis were carrying forged Iraqi passports."
"They wuz... ummm... somebody else."
The official expressed regret over the "untrue and fabricated news which might have wanted only to offend Yemen and its successful efforts in fighting terrorism, for the country being regarded as an effective partner with the United States and the International community as a whole in combating the evil."
"Yeah. Somebody's just tryin' to make us look bad. Prob'ly Zionists..."
Furthermore, Yemen denied the news that three Yemenis had been detained in Pakistan last week in charge of being Al Qaida elements.
"Nope. Nope..."
"Yemeni authorities contacted with the Pakistani authorities, and the result showed there were no Yemenis in that arrested group," a Yemen Foreign Ministry spokesman said.
"They wuz somebody else, too..."
It is worth mentioning that the 26 September newspaper published names of 62 Yemeni detainees in Guantanamo Bay, saying it is expected that the American authorities will release them soon.
"But they ain't Yemenis, neither..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:50 ||
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#1
All our bad guys said that they had tickets to a convention.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 14:00 Comments ||
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The Gulf Cooperation Council has agreed to establish a regional task force to halt the financing of Al Qaida-related insurgency groups. GCC sources said the six-member council will set up a body to combat insurgency financing and money-laundering by July 2004. They said the body will be modeled after the Financial Action Task Force, which monitors insurgency financing and money-laundering throughout the world. Bahrain could be the headquarters of such a new group, the sources said. On Jan. 13, GCC officials met Bahraini government representatives, World Bank and International Monetary Fund to discuss details of the project. The sources said the World Bank and IMF would be joined by Western allies of the GCC to establish the body. The organization would also include Britain, France and the United States. In addition, the new body would adopt and implement recommendations against what a draft proposal termed "money laundering and terrorist financing."
After a rather slow start, they're finally getting on board. I think the Saudi attacks might have highlighted the self-preservation aspects.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:36 ||
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Leaders of the democratic movement in Saudi Arabia have warned that the kingdom is rapidly deteriorating. In an open letter to the Saudi people, the Saudi democrats warn of division within the leadership and plans for a crackdown on reformists. The Jan. 3 letter blamed Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Bin Abdul Aziz with blocking efforts for reform.
They noticed it, too, huh?
Nayef has blocked the implementation of reforms pledged by Crown Prince Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz, the letter said. The Saudi democrats portrayed a divided ruling family uncertain of how to quell rising unrest and Al Qaida attacks in the kingdom. The letter also reported Saudi anger at the interest of the United States in the new democracy movement. The Saudi democrats said Nayef was furious that a U.S. consul in Jedda, identified as Gina Abercrombie-Winstanley, accepted an invitation by dissident for a discussion on Saudi democracy.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:33 ||
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So, an American woman! meets with a Saudi dissident to talk about democracy and Nayef (he who runs the Commision for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice) is reaching for some leather to bite down on?
I see that everything is going to plan.
Now about that 40km strip in the east of that damnable country.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/26/2004 2:34 Comments ||
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#2
So the kingdom is rapidily deteriorating? Why shouldn't this be seen as an oppertunity?
"Welcome to the city of Sakaka, capital of the Republic of Eastern Arabia. Our country is nestled between the Persian Gulf and the rolling sand dunes of Arabia 40 kilometers to the west. Though a new country, we are prosperous thanks to the abundance of oil and free thanks to a mutual defense treaty with the United States of America.
"Our chief of state is Prince Mahmoud, third cousin of King Mohammed of Morroco, who has graciously consented to serve us in Eastern Arabia. Our parliament of 80 deputies (47 men, 33 women) is led by Prime Minister Fatima al-Abdullah.
"Mayor Moshe Benjamin welcomes you to our fair city and hopes your stay will be restful and prosperous.
"For more information from our Chamber of Commerce, click here. For a listing of mosques, churches and synagogues in our city, click here. For the best nightlife in Arabia, click here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here."
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 10:18 Comments ||
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BBC enters CYA mode. EFL:
Just 48 hours before Lord Hutton delivers his verdict on the controversy surrounding the death of Dr David Kelly, the BBC has begun an advertising experiment that involves buying up all internet search terms relating to the inquiry. Despite being one of the main players in the drama, anyone searching for "Hutton inquiry" or "Hutton report" on the UKâs most popular search engine Google is automatically directed to a paid-for link to BBC Onlineâs own news coverage of the inquiry. Where they will no doubt find the BBCâs version of the truth.
No other news broadcaster or any newspaper has paid Google for this facility, leaving the corporationâs move even more conspicuous. Yes, isnât it.
As one of the chief "interested parties" in the Hutton inquiry into the apparent suicide of Dr Kelly, the move will strike many as worthy of comment, not least because the BBCâs online news pages will not be the most obvious place to go for the most comprehensive coverage, which is bound to include painful criticism of the corporation. It will also raise questions about the use of licence payersâ money at a time when the corporation faces criticism for spending so much money online from private rivals including the Guardian, the Telegraph and the Times newspapers. This should be fun.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 1:05:08 PM ||
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bloody typical of the bbc this is ,i hate the bbc!
#2
If the BBC wasn't such a paragon, I would speculate that they were engaged in censorship. In reality it would have been improper for anyone else to profit from a news story that was wholely a creation of the BBC.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:37 Comments ||
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#4
well, I guess I can stop using google then. Shouldn't this make the British taxpayers a bit angry to see their tax dollars being used in this fashion!
Posted by: B ||
01/26/2004 15:40 Comments ||
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#5
The Guardian article leaves a little something to be desired (I'm shocked, shocked). It says that searches will be "automatically directed to" the BBC's page, leading the naive to believe that they will be, well, automatically directed to the BBC's page.
Instead, in the sixth paragrph you learn that the Beeb has just bought one of those right side ads. Kinda weird, but not exactly flushing embarrassing facts down the memory hole, which is how the first paragraphs make is sound.
#6
When you google "Hutton Inquiry", the very first link that shows up is the official UK government site for the inquiry. The BBC, Guardian and Times links show up as well. Whatever the BBC is doing, it isn't working.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 17:17 Comments ||
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#7
I must have missed something all these years using google. When I google for 'hutton inquiry' I get 115,000 hits and the first one is not the bbc. In fact, the bbc doesn't show up until number three.
What's this story really about? (Answer: clueless journalists.)
I don't see a paid link to the bbc, did I miss it? (Answer: No, dummy, you didn't read the article first...stop panicking and go to the link!)
Or is this only happening in UK? (Answer: You should be glad Angie is on the job and posting at Rantburg.)
Oh...wait...Angie just explained it...whew! Thanks, Angie.
(Man, you can really tell what trips my trigger, caintcha? Doan mess wif mah google...)
British Prime Minister Tony Blair thought French leader Jacques Chirac was "out to get him" by exploiting acrimony over Iraq to supersede him in Europe, according to extracts of a new biography of Blair published on Monday. "Iâm convinced he believed the conflict with Chirac had expanded beyond Iraq to become a contest for the political leadership of Europe," author Philip Stephens told Reuters. "Chirac hoped that Blair would be toppled." Surprise meterâs reading "0.000".
Stephensâ view of the tense Anglo-French relationship was the most revelatory part of sections of his biography: "From Tony Blair," to be launched early next month. In extracts published by the Financial Times, Stephens traced the growing feud early last year when Britainâs support of the coming U.S.-led war in Iraq was bitterly opposed by Paris. "During the next few months Blair came to believe — partly on the basis of reports from British intelligence — that the dispute over Iraq was in fact a proxy for a much more serious contest," Stephens wrote. Would the French ever NOT have ulterior motives for any action they take?
"Chirac, these reports said, had decided that Blair had usurped his own position as the natural leader of the world Europe. It was time for the French president to re-erect reassert himself and to clip the wings of perfidious Albion. Tonyâs the eagle here, Jacques more like a buzzard.
"Unsurprisingly, French officials dismissed this peasant analysis. But Blair came to believe it, telling close aides that Chirac was âout to get him."â Relations between London and Paris hit their lowest point days before the war when the British government accused France of scuttling a U.N. resolution authorizing military action. Stephens wrote that "snippets of the French presidentâs private conversations reported to Blair suggested that he would like to see him burned at the stake fall" at that time. The pair had previously clashed over EU farm subsidies. Of course they clashed. They stand for two radically different things -- Tonyâs for liberty and freedom.
The "exquisite irony" for Blair was that Chiracâs tough line then gave him an excuse to go to war without U.N. approval, plus a useful propaganda boost at home in "rekindling the national tradition of hostility toward France," the author added. Not seen since 1815!
"âIt would be so much easier if the vote was about war with France,â one Blair loyalist only half joked as the prime minister scrambled for votes," Stephens wrote. And Britain has a Nelson or two in the wings, Iâm sure!
Although tensions remain on Iraq and some EU issues, Paris and London have engaged in plenty of pretend diplomatic fence-mending since last yearâs low, and Blair and Chirac have gone out of their way in public to avoid exchanging blunt instruments demonstrate mutual politeness. Sad to say that Chirac will probably last in office longer than Tony. But I know which one is our friend.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 12:28:26 PM ||
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#1
'zactly how did that analysis go again Dr. Frank?
"Tony,you're not being parnoid. That bastard Jacques is really out to get you?"
JFM, how about Chirac? Can he stay in power through another election?
#2
The next time you get into a debate w/someone convinced the Iraq War was for oil,hit them with the "Russian conspiracy".A)they think you are strange for not agreeing w/them,B)they won't respond to facts or logic,C)so have some fun and return idiocy w/idiocy.THE RUSSIAN CONSPIRACY:It was "British intelligence" that was mentioned in State of Union speech that got Pres.Bush in trouble.It was "British intelligence" that prompted Blair to go to war w/Iraq.And now it appears "British intelligence" was sowing discord between the two most active Western European leaders.The Soviets had once deeply penetrated the British intelligence community.What if the Russians have once again done so and the whole Iraq War was a Russian plot?One part was/is designed to stop a remilitarized European Union with expansion that would put it on Russia's borders.Splitting apart France and England would stop the Union cold.The second part was designed to enmesh the US in a Chechnya-type quagmire(so they misread US capabilities-it happens).A further hoped for result,would be defeating an interventionist President(and by implication American Interventionism)by getting allies in US to attack Pres. over misleading intelligence.Successful result of plot gives Russia time to rebuild by keeping Europe fragmented and suspicious of each other and by getting the US to abandon any policy of "unilateral" involvement in the world.
Conspiracy theory,everyone should have one.
Posted by: Stephen ||
01/26/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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#5
Yeah, Para, sweet machine, and when it says "0.000", you damn well know that you haven't been surprised.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 17:18 Comments ||
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#6
Gasse Katze
The electoral system in France is such that what really matters are not elections but control of the dominant party in the right or the left. For now the left is in a virtual coma. So the question is if someone can wrestle control of UMP from Jacques Chirac. The interior minister Sarkozy is trying to do that but he has an uphill struggle despite his popularity (don't forget that tyhe people who control eembership in UMP are Chirac's creatures). His best argument is that if Chirac is reeelected in 2007 he will be really, really old by end of term. If Chirac suffered a stroke it would be better.
Another point is that Sarkozy is first generation French: Hungarian parents who fled Hungary in 1956.
Four years after it was "liberated" by a NATO bombing campaign, Kosovo has deteriorated into a hotbed of organized crime, anti-Serb violence and al-Qaeda sympathizers, say security officials and Balkan experts. If you scroll down, to the left is a section called "gallery", and it has some pictures of the Albanian muslim SS in WW2.If anyone can explain the serb/albanian conflict it would be much appreciated..It seems rather complicated, and I wonder if we helped people who would have been nazi allies, did Clinton do that in the bosnian war? or was it justified? or both?
EFL
Last week the barricades were at the prime ministerâs office, the Matignon, where the government was discussing the awkward business of Franceâs proposed new law designed to ban the Muslim headscarf from schools. The Bill, portentously named "Application of the Principle of Secularity", will go to the National Assembly on Wednesday, with a peppy addition to ban beards from schools as well. Dominique de Villepin, the foreign minister, gravely explained that the law is not aimed at any particular minority, community or religion, though there is, he said, some difficulty in making the essential tolerance of it clear to Arab countries. Domenica Perben, the justice minister, felt the whole thrust of the issue revolved around the equality of men and women - which clears up why the French may be forcibly shaving prematurely mature Sikh schoolboys: they are a gender offset for de-scarfed female Muslims.
France is facing the problem that dare not speak its name. Though French law prohibits the census from any reference to ethnic background or religion, many demographers estimate that as much as 20-30 per cent of the population under 25 is now Muslim. The streets, the traditional haunt of younger people, now belong to Muslim youths. In France, the phrase "les jeunes" is a politically correct way of referring to young Muslims. Given current birth rates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state?
The situation is not dissimilar elsewhere in the EU. Europeans may at some young point in the 21st century have to decide whether they wish to retain the diluted but traditional Judaeo-Christian culture of their minority or have it replaced by the Islamic culture of the majority. In theory, the cultural and legal assimilation of Europeâs Muslims would be the ideal. This was supposed to be the notion behind the vision of the French interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, of a "French church of Islam" with homegrown imams. But knowledgeable observers say his "moderate" Council of Muslims has made radical Islam the government-sanctioned norm for all Muslims. For Islamists, assimilation is contamination since, in Professor Bernard Lewisâs words, "Muslims must not sojourn in the land of the infidel". Intermarriage should be another route to assimilation, though in France this usually involves an Islamic male and often the wife converts to Islam. Meanwhile, the state of Christendom in France is perilous. Catholics may not have reached the secular nirvana of the Church of Englandâs working party that declared the Sunday Sabbath redundant, but French Catholicism, except for little pools of the faithful, is taken with the notion that their Church will be borne forward only if the next Pope is ready to "dialogue" with Islam - a code word that augurs dilution of the faith.
Currently, Islamists are only a fraction of Franceâs Muslim population. In last weekâs demonstrations against the headscarf law, only 20,000 people turned out. But as in all radical movements, the young are the driving force. As their numbers increase, the militancy of Islam is likely to increase as well. Europeâs chickens are coming home to roost. The Great Powers used the Commonwealth or La Francophonie to continue the fiction of Empire. Large numbers of people were admitted mainly from North Africa. Early arrivals, such as the White Russians or the Ayatollah Khomeini and his supporters, never intended to assimilate. They were sitting out bad weather before returning home. More recent ones, who arrived because of Nato policies in the Balkans, have been greeted with hostility and distrust.
European countries are not organically immigrant societies. The groups that went to America in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries did so specifically to become Americans. They wanted to shed their past and, within a generation, they did. Americaâs emphasis today on faith and God is just an echo of the founding Pilgrims for whom Christianity was central. Their beliefs were reinforced by many Christian groups, from Baptists to Mennonites, all in search of religious freedom. These founding fathers decreed separation of church and state, not to make sure the nation was secular, as in France, but to make sure no state religion could interfere with religious freedom. European countries have none of this melting-pot principle. You cannot become German or Italian with the same ease with which you become American.
Also, into this very different European environment came a very different sort of immigrant - people who had no interest in assimilation at all. They came as settlers, wanting to establish their own communities; at best they favoured a merger - at worst, a takeover. Their approach was nurtured by notions of multiculturalism, a creed appealing to intellectuals, administrators and enforcers, but having almost zero appeal to the home population. In the absence of openness, the governmentâs response was a cover-up - or, rather, an uncovering: to outlaw Muslim headscarves, shave beards worn for reasons of faith, or ban crucifixes if too large. In Britain, some school Nativity plays were forbidden. There seemed to be a genuine belief among governments that they could solve this problem by violating Western traditions of religious freedom and by outlawing their own cultural traditions.
Far from alleviating the situation, this only aggravated it. Worse, it gave fodder to the extreme Right. Tribal friction has only two solutions: groups will either unite in the manner of Normans and Saxons, melding into a society that may have different religious practices but subscribes to the same laws and values - in which case headscarves, beards and demographics donât matter a fig. Or they will follow the pattern of warring tribes throughout history. The question is not whether French and Muslims can co-exist with each other so long as Muslim schoolgirls are bareheaded. Rather, it is the fundamental question of whether Muslim groups will become part of the French nation. This is not one of those old "querelles gauloises" that Barzini so loved. It is the fundamental dilemma of the new century.
It's not a problem that will be easily or peacefully solved. I think Europe will either solve it when it becomes intolerable, or all of Western Europe will become North African. Either way, it's not going to be pretty. If Europe becomes North African, it will be an upheaval equivalent to 476 A.D., and will probably be followed by an age just as dark. If Europe solves the problem itself — how many pieds noirs are left in Algeria? — things will be nearly as ugly. That's a solution that will probably come from the Right, and it will bring with it a completely different set of problems.
Posted by: tipper ||
01/26/2004 9:26:49 AM ||
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...Rather, it is the fundamental question of whether Muslim groups will become part of the French nation.
Even that misses the mark: the question is, will Muslim groups become part of the French nation, or will the French people become but part of the Ummah?
Who will subsume whom?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
01/26/2004 10:31 Comments ||
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Hmm...must we reinvent the wheel? I think the answer to that question has been around for ..oh..say... a thousand years or so.
The Muslim religion basically states that infidels must be put to the sword, unlike Christianity which embraces compassion and tolerance. The problem is that Christian nations are trying to combat Muslim values of intolerance with Christian values of tolerance.
It's time for Westerners to wake up and understand the obvious outcome of allowing tolerance of intolerance...will be intolerance.
Posted by: B ||
01/26/2004 11:03 Comments ||
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#3
jesus France is only over the water a few miles from me, arghhh noooo.
#5
jesus France is only over the water a few miles from me, arghhh noooo. - Jon Shep U.K
I live in Colorado, Jon, and still own my parent's former home (Mom passed away). If it REALLY hits the fan, come on over. I'll sponsor you and let you live there 'til you get on your feet.
Ed Becerra
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
01/26/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#6
Doesn't this French headscarf law also outlaw the wearing of all religious symbols? The yamulka, the cross? I haven't heard much about this. Is everyone over there so complascent that it is not an issue?
A Turkish man has been arrested after shooting two people dead in a mosque, according to German police. The attack happened shortly after morning prayers in the western town of Gelsenkirchen on Monday. A police spokesman said the 59-year-old man shot the two men in the head before fleeing. The victims, aged 48 and 58, were both of Turkish origin. The suspect, who was well-known at the mosque, was later arrested at his home. The motive for the attack is not clear. Sounds like a personal dispute.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 9:05:53 AM ||
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I was right: The man, whose name was not released, told police he killed the victims because they insulted him and his wife.
Can't have that, can we?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 16:11 Comments ||
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Wow, sounds like a report coming outta Pakistan.
An explosion yesterday outside a business school in the western city of Nantes run by one of Franceâs first Muslim departmental governors caused minor damage but no injuries, officials said. Last week, the car belonging to Aissa Dermouche â the Algerian-born director of the Audencia school of management and the new top administrator for the eastern French department of Jura â was destroyed by an explosive device. Windows were broken and the door damaged at the Audencia school in Nantes, which the 57-year-old Dermouche has run since 1989, officials said. The prefect of the Loire-Atlantique department, Bernard Boucault, immediately went to the scene and an investigation has been opened. Police were at the scene taking samples for scientific analysis. The president of the Audencia school, Jean-Francois Moulin, declined to comment on the incident. The explosive device used in yesterdayâs blast, which was placed near a guard post, was ânot very sophisticated,â according to a source close to the probe.
Dermouche, who came to France at the age of 18, is the first departmental governor, or prefect, from the generation that emigrated from North Africa in the 1960s. The handful of previous Muslim prefects started their civil service careers before 1962 when Algeria was officially part of France. His nomination 10 days ago came at a time of growing concern over how to better integrate the five million-strong Muslim community in France, and moves by the government to ban Islamic headscarves and other religious insignia in schools, a step Muslims see as an assault on their basic freedoms. Last Sundayâs attack on Dermoucheâs car provoked condemnation from across the political spectrum, amid fears it was a symptom of increasing tensions with the Muslim community. No one was hurt in that attack, which took place before dawn. Dermouche has since been under police protection. Police have been looking into the possibility that the attack on Dermoucheâs Saab was the result of a private grudge rather than an act of Islamist or far-right terrorism, but no motive has been ruled out. Three men held for questioning last week in connection with the car attack, including the former partner of Dermoucheâs ex-wife, have since been released.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:38 ||
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Robert Redford showed his new film about Che Guevara, "The Motorcycle Diaries," to the widow and children of the legendary guerrilla fighter on Sunday. "I came to present the film that I produced on Che Guevara and I am very happy to be in Cuba - where the ho's are lovely and dirt cheap and I'm free to leave when I'm done since I wouldn't actually want to live and raise kids here...despite the fact that I admire their education and healthcare system so much."
Redford told Reuters before the private screening at Havana's Charles Chaplin cinema. He watched the film with Guevara's widow, Aleida March, son Camilo and daughters Celia and Aleidita, as well as Ramiro Valdes, a top military commander in Cuba's communist government who fought with Guevara and Fidel Castro in the Sierra Maestra mountains. The film, directed by Brazilian Walter Salles, is based on the diaries Guevara wrote on a nine-month bike trip through South America in 1952 when he was an asthmatic wealthy, pimply-faced
23-year-old medical student. "The film is excellent," his widow Aleida, who sold provided the diaries to the film-makers, said after the screening. "I can't wait for the royalties!"
"If you read the book Daddy wrote on his trip through Latin America, you will see that the film is very faithful to the original," daughter Celia said. Guevara's motorbike journey opened his eyes to poverty in Latin America and he later joined Castro in Mexico where the Cuban leader was organizing a landing party to launch a guerrilla movement in Cuba that triumphed in 1959. ...and helped perpetuate poverty in Latin America within a system that denies basic freedoms including freedom of speech and thought. Whatta romantic hero.
Guevara was executed by army troops after his capture in 1967 in the Bolivian jungle, where he had tried to install more collectivist tyranny through violent, bloody civil war trigger another revolution. Redford flew to Cuba on Friday where, presumably, his eyes will not be opened to Latin American poverty and oppression under the world's oldest dictator
from the Sundance Film Festival, of which he is a backer and where "The Motorcycle Diaries" received a standing ovation at its debut a week ago. Of course it did.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
01/26/2004 4:48:10 AM ||
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... where, presumably, his eyes will not be opened to Latin American poverty and oppression under the world's oldest dictator...
TT, the people of Sundance give a standing O to oppression.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 7:52 Comments ||
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He watched the film with Guevara's widow
What? None of the widows of Guevara's victims were available?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 8:37 Comments ||
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Quana, I liked the article. I am curious about the state of the current dictatorship in Cuba. My impression is that Castro should be way down the "regime change" list as he is not currently manufacturing human fertilizing for his agricultural endeavors. He is certainly repressive and is not doing anyone any good by supporting Chavez and others, but I wouldn't expect to find a wood-chipper in use for dissident disposal on the island. Is that accurate?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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They don't use chippers in Cuba, but there was a significant wave of political executions in the last couple of years (immediately post 9/11 when he thought no one was looking?). The body count isn't in the Stalin or even Mugabe league, but he's a standard issue bloodsoaked tyrant.
He's way down the "regime change" list because he's not much of a threat to kill Americans in America (as opposed the emigres flying in international airspace) right now. If he thinks he can get away with it, or if he hooks up with Chavez and Lula, that could change.
#6
Castro almost started a nuclear war with the U.S. He's still a threat to future stability and freedom in Latin America - the massive wave of liberalization and democracy in the '90's doesn't appear as permanent and irreversible as it once did. Chavez is a potential monster. Nobody knows for sure about Lula or Kirchner in Argentina but the dire economic crises may lead to sweeping shifts to the left.
However, Regime Change seems like a bad idea for Cuba. There is no doubt that he still retains some sway over the Cuban people - he is not as widely hated like Saddam. Their growing dislike of him would reverse course if the U.S. got aggressive. He can be waited out. Barring emergency, the U.S. must not interfere in Latin America the way it did during the Cold War. Castro will not live another decade and it is doubtful that the revolution will long outlive him. Some people argue that we should lift sanctions as a more effective way to undermine Castro. But I'm not convinced.
As far as murderous, ego-maniacal, oppressive dictators go, Castro is way down the list in terms of historical ranking. He ranks at the top in terms of longevity, romantic charm, and long-windedness (7hr. speeches).
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
01/26/2004 19:05 Comments ||
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Guess I better find my sleeping bag and get down to the nearest theatre where it's showing. Don't want to get shut out by the clamoring throngs.Glad you're so rich, Bob, that you've got money to burn on this shit.
Prediction: This has Golden Globe Winner written all over it.
#8
The first movie about Che that I know about was called Che. It made the list in the Meved brothers' book The 50 Worst of All Time. Haven't seen it myself although I hope everytime that I flip through MST3000 that it will be playing. As I remember from one of the reviews, it is worth a watch just to see Jack Palance play Fidel Castro. One reviwer pointed out the Omar Sharif's most convincing moment in his portrayal of Che was when the great revolutionary was slabbed out for autopsy.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 21:26 Comments ||
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The Canadian army truck fleet could experience "catastrophic" failure at any time due to poor brakes and steering systems and must be replaced within four years or safety will be compromised, defence department officials say. The trucks, known in military jargon as Medium Logistic Vehicle Wheeled (MLVW) are the backbone of army transportation. But the 22-year-old vehicles, commonly seen on highways near military bases, are becoming more difficult and costly to maintain, according to defence documents obtained by the Ottawa Citizen.
Serious safety issues include the potential for failing brakes and steering columns. "We are at a critical stage in the life of the MLVW where unpredicted catastrophic failures could occur without warning," one document notes. Catastrophic failure is used to signify accidents that could involve serious injuries or death. Col. Bob Gunn, who helps determine army equipment needs, acknowledged the problems with the trucks. He said the military is working on getting replacements by 2010. The trucks were sidelined four years ago because of rusted wheel rims. "We replaced them all, so thatâs good for now," said Gunn. "We were extremely fortunate." Heck, they only have 11,900 guys in their army. They could hire U-Hauls and taxis. In my blog a while back, after noting a string of similar stories, I asked: Is Canada a real country?
#2
Canada is a collection of badly run medicare providers, and as long as it's free, nobody complains.
We send 2000 troops to Afghanistan where they run around in 30 year old Volkswagon dune buggies and 40 year old helicopters. Pathetic.
But the health care is free.
Posted by: john ||
01/26/2004 14:31 Comments ||
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Health care is free, but is it good health care?
Posted by: Charles ||
01/26/2004 14:45 Comments ||
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Lemme just comment on the health care is free part. It AINT FREE! You pay taxes to get that government promoted healthcare, a helluva lot in taxes (what is it now close to 40% in income taxes?). Everyone pays for it whether they need that health care or not.
As for the rest of Canada...remind me again why Alberta hasn't seceded yet? :)
Posted by: Val ||
01/26/2004 14:57 Comments ||
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If it was really "all about the oil", we would have annexed Alberta, BC, and the Northwest Territories in the 70s.
Come to think of it, they hate the quebecois about as much as we do. Maybe we should just ask them if they want to be 51-53.
It's pretty pathetic when you can't afford some brake drums, master cylinders, and the odd steering joint. Guess it's the groundwork for putting their hand out to Uncle Sam to spring for a new truck fleet.
The son of a leading al-Qaeda member killed by Pakistani troops said Sunday that he doubted whether his father was really dead. "We had not seen the DNA test," Abdurahman Khadr, 20, told CBC television. But he added: "I think he has a right, as a Canadian, to be buried here in Canada." Pakistani military officials told AFP on Sunday that his father, Ahmed Saeed Abdur Rehman Khadar, a Canadian national, was among the eight terror suspects killed in the Pakistani military operation. Earlier, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told AFP the identification of Khadr was established by DNA testing since his body had been badly mutilated during the operation. Security officials said Khadr was an "established al-Qaeda operative" and was among the networkâs senior leadership. Abdurahman Khadr lives in Toronto with the rest of his family, but grew up in Afghanistan.
So actually, he has no knowledge of whether or not Pop is toes up...
"When we were kids, we played with Osama (bin Laden)âs kids," he said, but denied that his father was a top leader in al-Qaeda. The senior Khadr, an Egyptian-born Canadian, was killed in the Pakistan army operation on October 2 in which 18 others were also arrested, according to the military. Abdurahman Khadar said his younger brother Abdullah, 14, one of those wounded in the October operation should, "as a Canadian, be brought back to Canada, especially at this time because of his medical condition."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:17:06 AM ||
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He's dead, kid. He doesn't have any rights anymore.
#2
He's not dead, he's just resting after a really long squawk
Posted by: john ||
01/26/2004 14:34 Comments ||
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Hi from Canada. I know that I will be paying my share of this lad's medical expenses for the rest of his life. What are the chances that his mom and sister, now living in Islamic splendor in Pakistan, will stop criticizing Canada as a lousy place to raise kids and show some gratitude to me and my fellow citizens? Seriously, mom and sis say that young people in Canada use drugs and have casual sex - as opposed to her offspring that are now maimed, uneducated and brainwashed as a result of their sojourn in her pure Islamic wonderland. They will probably expect to be supported by Canadian taxpayers for the rest of their lives. As youthful follies go.... well you know what my choice would be.
Police on Sunday confirmed that a Pakistani reporter held in December while working with two French journalists had been charged with anti-state activity. Heâs the guy they denied having last week.
"Three people have been arrested including Khawar Mehndi Rizvi for anti-state activity," police chief of the south-western Baluchistan province Shoaib Suddle said. Suddle identified the other two detained in the provincial capital Quetta as Allah Noor and Abdullah Shakir. Rizvi was engaged by the French journalists and "he in collaboration with the other Noor and Shakir arranged a fake video on Taliban training in Pakistan and tried to defame the country," the provincial police chief said. He said they had been charged over "criminal conspiracy and anti-state activity." The crime is punishable by life imprisonment. Imagine how long a sentence youâd get if you tried to bump off their president.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 3:17:44 PM ||
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looks like my dead pool pick for him is a couple weeks premature
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 18:44 Comments ||
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The bank accounts and other assets of Abdul Qadeer Khan, considered the architect of Pakistanâs nuclear programme , are to be frozen as he was involved in the clandestine sale of technology to Iran , Online news agency reported. Say goodbye, Khan.
Investigators had come across clinching evidence of Khanâs involvement in selling Pakistanâs nuclear technology abroad after interrogating Farooq Hassan, director general of the Khan Research Laboratories (KRL) that Abdul Qadeer Khan founded and heads. Hassan is among the large number of scientists who have been arrested and are being interrogated about the illegal transfer of technology. Khan had earned millions of dollars and this had been parked in banks in London and Dubai, Hassan told his interrogators. Ah, the fabled Pakistani truncheon team hits another one out of the park!
Investigators discovered Abdul Baqi, who was fronting for Khan, was operating the accounts, containing $2 billion. Now we are talking serious money.
Baqi is said to be the associate of a close relative of Khan. The National Accountability Bureau (NAB) had interrogated him but had later let him off. Sources said all matters related to transfer of nuclear technology were routed through Baqi. Sniff, sniff, I smell fall guy or key witness.
The investigation team was also told of financial irregularities in the purchase of dyes used in the test firing of Ghauri missiles. The price of each dye was recorded as Rs. 339,000 against the actual cost of Rs.39,000. The owner of a factory had provided details about this to the NAB. Tacked a additional three hundred grand on the bill. Sounds like somebody has been cooking the books for a long time. Bet they had kicked back some to the supplier as well. It works until a real audit team starts looking, then everything falls apart. All the little guys will be falling over themselves to cut a deal before the big guy rats them out.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 3:06:41 PM ||
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EFL
An Islamic militant sentenced to death for the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was moved to a different prison for security reasons, the interior minister said on Monday. Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, a British citizen, was moved earlier this month from a prison in the southern city of Hyderabad to one in Rawalpindi, near the capital Islamabad, said Faisal Saleh Hayyat. Security in Hyderabad was not "not compatible with the requirements of keeping such a high profile prisoner," he told reporters. Hayyat said the government had been receiving intelligence reports about the need to increase security around Sheikh which forced it to "take pre-emptive action before it is late." He did not elaborate.
Could always just go ahead and stretch his neck...
When Sheikh was moved on Jan. 18, a prison official said he had likely been wanted for questioning about other men who have been arrested over a failed assassination attempt in Rawalpindi against Pakistanâs President Gen. Pervez Musharraf. The president escaped unhurt but 16 others were killed in the Dec. 25 attack. Hayyat did not comment on whether Sheikh was being questioned about the attack, which authorities suspect was the work of local Islamic militants, possibly working with al-Qaida.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 2:12:36 PM ||
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Pakistani investigators are looking into the vast property holdings of Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistanâs nuclear bomb, and into his and other nuclear scientistsâ bank accounts. "Investigators are looking into all dimensions, including financial dimensions," a government official said. He said offshore accounts formed part of the investigation. Stashed the loot overseas, hoping nobody noticed.
Eight veterans of Pakistanâs bomb program are being held for questioning. A Pakistani newspaper, News, reported that investigators had discovered that millions of dollars were deposited in the Dubai bank accounts of two Pakistani nuclear scientists as nuclear hardware arrived in Iran. Just a coincidence, Iâm sure.
The newspaper also said a scientist had been found to have tens of millions of dollars worth of financial and real estate holdings in Pakistan and overseas, primarily in Dubai. Planning to retire in a comfortable seaside villa.
The scientist also paid a Pakistani newspaper editor in Islamabad to run a publicity campaign, publish books and organise seminars praising him, News reported. Hired his own PR firm, thatâs looking ahead.
A former intelligence official with knowledge of the inquiry said Dr Khan and a close aide, Mohammed Farooq, were its focus. "They are not naming them, but we know that the two main suspects are A. Q. Khan and Dr Farooq," the former intelligence official said. "KHAAAAAAAAANNNN!"
"A. Q. Khanâs interests in the real estate have been known to us for quite some time. So this has not come as a big surprise." Seems like it was to Perv. Or, so he says.
Officials are expected to announce soon the results of an inquiry into whether the countryâs nuclear technology was shared with Iran and Libya. Nuke scientists with tens of millions in the bank make great fall guys. Plus you can seize their cash for your own retirement fund.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 11:51:25 AM ||
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Considering that Khan based his empire on theft of information to begin with, no one should be surprised by a little more self-serving dishonesty.
Posted by: Tom ||
01/26/2004 13:20 Comments ||
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"In the 1970s, he took a job at a uranium enrichment plant run by the British-Dutch-German consortium Urenco."
"But in 1976, Dr Khan returned home to head up the nation's nuclear programme with the support of then prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto."
"As he was carrying out his programme, Dr Khan was also being investigated in the Netherlands for taking enrichment technology during his time in the country."
"In 1983, he was sentenced in absentia to four years in prison by an Amsterdam court for attempted espionage, although the sentence was later overturned on appeal."
Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf today denied that Pakistan had asked militants in Kashmir to lie low right now. In an interview to BBC, he said that, "No orders have been issued at all. They are not under our control."
Sounds like he thinks he's reached an accomodation with them...
Musharraf, who recently escaped two assassination attempts which he blamed on Al-Qaeda, ruled out suggestions that Kashmiri militant groups were involved. "This has nothing to do with whatever is happening in Kashmir. Al-Qaeda has nothing to do with Kashmir," he said.
... even though it has lots to do with Jaish e-Mohammad...
Observing that India and Pakistan would "have to meet somewhere midway" to find a solution to the Kashmir issue, Musharraf made it clear that turning the Line of Control (LoC) as an international border was not acceptable to his country. "I have been talking of a four step solution. That we start talking first of all, accept the reality of Kashmir, secondly and then eliminate whatever is unacceptable to India, Pakistan and Kashmir," he added. Musharraf pointed out that the environment in both countries was conducive to a solution to the problem. "The public (in India), the vast majority want peace and harmony with Pakistan and they want a solution of all disputes. I think we have to be bold and go forward," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:31:59 AM ||
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Pakistani authorities have arrested two senior officials from Afghanistanâs deposed Taliban regime. One of the arrested is believed to know the whereabouts of the elusive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar. Pakistani intelligence sources said the two officials were captured in western Pakistan near the Afghan border. One was identified as Maulvi Abdul Mannan, governor of Badghais province under the Taliban. CNN reported he was close to Omar. The other person arrested was identified as Najeeb Ullaha, a Taliban military commander. Mullah Mohammed Omar is believed to be hiding in the Kandahar region of western Afghanistan, once a stronghold of the Taliban. Pakistani authorities say they hope to gain more information about Omarâs whereabouts from Mannan.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:14:55 AM ||
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#1
Thanks to CNN, the Mullah is probably aware now and going to move again.
#3
The more he has to change locations, the better. We only have to get lucky once. Every time we pick somebody up, we should say we think he knows where Omar is.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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omar would surly grass bin-laden in too if he was captured? I wonder if those rumoured 'truth' drugs really work? if not lsd would :)
#6
BAR, before administering the injection show him a picture of Michael Jackson in 1982 and then a current picture. Provide no explantion; just laugh maniacally.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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Good Heavens SH... that is just soooo wrong.
I mean bad tactics... first you give'em a new nose... then show the picture.
#9
I fear Michael Jackson would not be willing to do it, due to the fact the perp is over the age of 13, and his "special" interrogation techniques may not work.
Law enforcement agencies from Punjab and the federal capital, including Punjab Police and the Frontier Constabulary on Sunday evening raided various locations in Rawalpindi and Islamabad to arrest the wanted men who might have escaped the Wana operation. Sources told Daily Times that the agencies scoured the two cities after the Interior Ministry received reports that a large number of terrorists who had links with top Al Qaeda leadership fled Waziristan to escape the ongoing crackdown by law enforcement agencies.
Scurrying like roaches. I like that...
Sources said terrorists were planning bomb attacks in major cities and the operation aimed to thwart them in their evil designs. Police raided madrassas in the two cities and also searched studentsâ rooms. Sources said senior district administration officials were in touch with the International Islamic University and they were being informed about every newcomer to the university hostel. Officials went to mosques as well and questioned prayer leaders whether they knew of any strangers who might have come in their areas recently. District Police Officer Syed Murwat Ali Shah said law enforcement agencies were searching for terrorists and activists from banned militant outfits, who might have been hiding there. He said the search operation in the two cities would continue until terrorists were arrested. Police officials have also been deployed in forests and deserted areas.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:59:07 AM ||
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If any of these countries were really SERIOUS about tamping down on terrorism, the first thing that they would do is outlaw the madrassas and institute public education.
A leading al-Qaeda member was confirmed as one of eight terror suspects killed in an army operation in a Pakistani tribal area in October. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told AFP the identification of Abdur Rehman Khadr, a Canadian-born Egyptian, was established after DNA testing because his body had been badly mutilated during the operation.
Dropped a house on him? Or was he wearing a boom belt as part of his duties as a humanitarian? My guess would be the latter.
His son was also injured in the operation but his condition is stable, according to a senior security official speaking on condition of anonymity.
That's really too bad.
Khadr is the second from among the eight suspects killed in South Waziristan tribal region to be identified by the US and Pakistani authorities. Earlier another suspect was identified as Hasan Mahsum, who was described by China as its top "terrorist" along with 10 other ethnic Uighur Muslim separatists, all from Chinaâs western Xinjiang region, on its first-ever list of "terrorists". Mahsum, 39, was identified as a leader in the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), which China said was a "terrorist" group.
They call it that because they "kill people." We knew Hasan was toes up last month. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of the corpses, ain't it?
The army had also arrested 18 suspects during the operation at Angor Ada in South Waziristan, a rugged region with a population of around 400,000. It has been in the spotlight as a haven for al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters fleeing US military operations across the border in Afghanistan. Two Pakistani soldiers were also killed in a gunbattle with the suspects. The Angor Ada battle was one of the fiercest waged by Pakistani troops against al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects since Pakistan joined the Unites States in the war on terrorism two years ago. Angor Ada faces Afghanistanâs Shkin district and is just 15 kilometres from the Afghan town of Barmal, part of which was reportedly controlled by Taliban.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:45:26 AM ||
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Two Maoist rebels allegedly involved in a failed bid to assassinate the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh have been killed trying to escape custody.
Ahhh... Shot will attempting to escape.
The two militants, senior leaders of the outlawed Peopleâs War Group (PWG), were arrested on Saturday in neighboring Karnataka, a police spokesman said. They were being escorted to Tirupati, about 500 km south of the Andhra Pradesh capital Hyderabad, for questioning when they tried to escape, said police superintendent Ramchandra Raju. âThey had stopped on the side of the road for a break when the two men tried to snatch the weapons of their police escorts and escape. They were immediately shot dead,â Raju said.
Yep. That sounds plausible.
The two were allegedly involved in an assassination attempt on chief minister Chandrababu Naidu last October in which rebels detonated a landmine as Naiduâs cavalcade passed by on its way to the temple town of Tirupathi. Naiduâs car was badly damaged but he escaped with his life.
There's two that won't be targetting him again...
Police also announced yesterday the killing of another top PWG leader in Cuddapah, some 400 km south of Hyderabad. âThere was shootout after which our men surrounded the militants and in the shooting killed the PWGs district committee secretary for the neighboring district of Anatapur,â Abhilesh Bhist, superintendent of police for Cuddapah, said. He said the slain militant was probably involved in the planning of the landmine attack on Naidu.
... and that makes three. The gene pool feels cleaner already.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:45 ||
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Hundreds of hard-liners rallied yesterday in support of Pakistani nuclear scientists detained on suspicion of having profited from selling nuclear technology to Iran, hailing them as ânational heroes.â
For selling the country's secrets?
Supporters of the religious coalition Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal drove a truck stacked with megaphones through the center of Rawalpindi, a city near Islamabad, bringing traffic to a halt. They held banners reading: âStop terror against national heroesâ and âAtomic power saved Pakistan.â
From what?
Speakers criticized President Gen. Pervez Musharrafâs government, saying it had caved in to foreign countries, including the United States, by leveling accusations against scientists who had helped produce the Muslim worldâs first nuclear bomb as a deterrent against rival India. âWe will never accept the blame being leveled against the nuclear scientists,â said MMA leader Qazi Hussain Ahmed. âThe nuclear heroes made these nuclear weapons for us â thatâs why India never dared to touch us... Even if Dr. Khan has millions of dollars in his accounts we donât care ... heâs a national hero, we love him,â Ahmed told the crowd.
Such devotion is so... touching.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:32 ||
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An "underworld" of mostly European technology traffickers leaked secrets to states seeking nuclear weapons, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said in an interview. "We discovered there is an underworld of people who have been manufacturing [nuclear technology]," President Musharraf told the Washington Post newspaper. Although he said some Pakistanis were involved, "most of them come from Europe", he told the Washington daily.
"It was the mob, see? It wudn't us..."
Pakistani authorities are investigating allegations that some of its top nuclear scientists, including the creator of the country's first atomic bomb, sold nuclear secrets to Libya and Iran. Pakistan has taken steps to stop leaks of nuclear secrets, President Musharraf said in the interview. "There are strong custodial controls in Pakistan and there is no possibility of a leakage," he said told the Post.
"Nope. Inconceivable. It'd be like... like... oh, I dunno. Like one of my bodyguards tipping off an assassin which car I was in."
"Before, there was a covert program for maybe 30 years and there was a lot of autonomy given to the organization and individuals running the [country's nuclear program]. There was a lot of chance for leakages. Now it's no longer covert - it's overt." In November, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) handed Pakistan a list of individuals suspected of transferring nuclear know-how to Iran and Libya. Eight scientists and administrators of the Khan Research Laboratories, a uranium enrichment facility, are being questioned by Pakistani authorities.
Perhaps because their names are on the list?
The laboratory's founder and the father of the country's nuclear bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, has also been questioned. President Musharraf said that only individuals and not the Pakistani Government were involved in the affair. "These are individuals and our investigation has concluded that no government of Pakistan and I don't have a soft spot for the governments of [former prime ministers] Benazir [Bhutto] and Nawaz [Sharif] - sanctioned or authorised anyone to proliferate," President Musharraf said, who became the country's head of state after a 1999 coup d'etat.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:19 ||
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Baderâs neighbours donât know exactly why he was kidnapped, but they suspect itâs because he belonged to the Mandaeans, a religious sect that traces its lineage to pre-Christian times.
There are now perhaps 200,000 Mandaeans worldwide, living mostly in Iraq, Iran, Australia and Sweden. Some 100,000 of them reside in Baghdad.
A non-violent people, who believe that God alone has the right to take a human life, the Mandaeans are targets partly because they normally donât carry weapons. That makes them highly vulnerable in the near lawless chaos of post-war Baghdad.
The Mandaeans also are seen as wealthy since they traditionally own jewellery stores and work as goldsmiths. âEven if we are poor, the criminals know that we have rich relatives who work in gold,â said Amal.
Mauid al-Sawady, a journalist with the groupâs Afaq Mandaia magazine, offers yet another possibility. "They target us because we donât have clans or tribes to protect us, so they consider us weak people," he said.
I know IWPR isnât exactly your standard Rantburg news source, but their "local touches" (like this one) are often quite interesting (and usually too apolitical to be very biased one way or the other).
These folks in particular have always fascinated me. Yet another Judaic-descent monotheistic faith whose ultimate prophet was (drumroll) Yahya bin Zekaria, better known to a couple billion other folks as John the Baptist. Hereâs their semi-official website (with a wee bit of English content).
Posted by: Dan (not Darling) ||
01/26/2004 10:02:11 PM ||
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After obtaining information about corruption allegations against the police chief of the town of Tathrib, soldiers from Task Force Ironhorse searched his residence during the afternoon of Jan. 24. The soldiers also located and confiscated five AK-47 assault rifles, one H & K automatic weapon, one SKS automatic weapon, 200 rounds of AK-47 ammunition and nine AK-47 full ammunition magazines. The chief was detained for further questioning. During the evening of Jan. 24, Task Force Ironhorse soldiers raided a building in Mukayshifa in search of a reported grenade cache. The soldiers located and confiscated 220 hand grenades without incident. No one was detained.
#1
corupt iraqi coppers are to be expected but its nice to see that people care enough to grass the slime in, hope to see more people acting this intelligently in the future in Iraq.
#3
I was wondering yesterday where one went to get authorization to keep hand grenades in his home.
Now I know-- the chief of cops. He'll even make you a great deal if you buy a dozen or more.
Any doubts now about HRW?
The war in Iraq cannot be justified as an intervention in defense of human rights even though it ended a brutal regime, Human Rights Watch said Monday, inappropriately dismissing one of the Bush administrationâs main arguments for the invasion. While Saddam Hussein had an atrocious human rights record and life has improved for Iraqis since his ouster, his worst actions occurred long before the war, the advocacy group said in its annual report. It said there was no ongoing or imminent mass killing in Iraq when the conflict began. Yeah, John Gacy hadnât killed anyone the week before he got pinched, either. Ditto for Ted Bundy and the Green River killer. Iâm pretty sure Pol Pot slacked off right at the end, too.
President Bush (and British Prime Minister Tony Blair) cited the threat from Saddamâs alleged weapons of mass destruction as their main reason for attacking Iraq. But even before as coalition forces have failed to find evidence of such weapons, both leaders have consistently starting before the war also highlighted the brutality of the regime when justifying military intervention. Remind me the exact moments when the left decided not to care about genocide any more?
Human Rights Watch, however, rejected such claims. "The Bush administration cannot justify the war in Iraq as a humanitarian intervention, and neither can Tony Blair," executive director Kenneth Roth said. Even though more Iraqis are alive today than would have been if Sammy had stayed.
Atrocities such as Saddamâs 1988 mass killing of Kurds would have justified humanitarian intervention, Roth said. "But such interventions should be reserved for stopping an imminent or ongoing slaughter," he added. "They shouldnât be used belatedly to address atrocities that were ignored in the past." Iâm sure youâll enlighten as to why that is. Personally I think that forever hounding genocidal thugs to the ends of the earth is a great idea.
The 407-page Human Rights Watch World Report 2004 also said the U.S. government was applying "war rules" to the struggle against global terrorism and denying terror suspects their rights. It suggested that "police rules" of law enforcement should be applied in such cases instead. Not after 9/11. Roth-boy wants to live under the old rules, where terrorists blew up stuff and we just endured it.
"In times of war you can detain someone summarily until the end of the war and you can shoot to kill. And those are two powers that the Bush administration wants to have globally," Roth said. "I think thatâs very dangerous." Dangerous for the people trying to kill Americans, thatâs for sure. Itâs a global fight.
Human Rights Watch criticized the United States for detaining 660 so-called "enemy combatants" without charges at a U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Most of the detainees were captured in Afghanistan where they were killing people and training terrorists. Alt-F6 on Rothâs version of MS Word.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 12:40:03 PM ||
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#1
HRW is an excellent source of data on actual on the ground events wrt human rights violations, etc. Going beyond that to questions of international law and strategy is not their forte.
I suspect they are afraid the next time there is a Rwanda or Kosovo, an ongoing immediate genocide, and they call for intervention, lefties will say "ha, ha, stooges for right wing americans" and so they are trying to distance themselves from the admin using Human rights to justify the invasion.
The best way to show that the admin is NOT just using HR to cover up a missing WMD embarassment, would be to make HR a more central part of admin policy, from China to Uzbekistan to Azerbaijan to Russia to Saudi to Colombia.
#2
Yes, all we needed to do was sit back and let HRW's great plan to take effect. Their plan in detail:
Wait for Saddam to die.
Wait for Qusay and Uday to die.
Pray something happens in the meantime.
Very similar to my 8-ball strategy (leave most of my balls on the table to obstruct my opponent and hope he scratches on the 8).
Posted by: Dar ||
01/26/2004 13:07 Comments ||
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#3
Remind me the exact moments when the left decided not to care about genocide any more?
They ever cared?
LH: The administration made human rights part of the argument from day one; the anti-war nuts made a habit of responding to any list of reasons for removing Saddam with whines about the administration "not making up their minds" and "coming up with new excuses".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 13:38 Comments ||
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#4
I guess HRW didn't interview any of the child prisoners.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#5
LH: here's Mr. Roth's position in a nutshell: if a genocidal dictator murders a whole lot of people and the world doesn't respond in a "timely" manner, then the dictator is off the hook.
Because we didn't respond to the 1988 massacre of the Kurds right away, Saddam was entitled to be left alone.
I hope everyone sees the fallacy of that, and wonders how an organization dedicated to human rights could say such a thing.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 13:42 Comments ||
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#6
Because they're not. Dedicated to human rights, that is. They're dedicated to fund raising, getting quoted by reporters, and fluffing themselves up to be important.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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#7
excuse me gentlemen, but HRW has been and continues to be a VERY important source for information with regard to Saddam, and elsewhere as well. They will continue to be important. Simply dissing them is not useful.
That they are wrong about the morality and strategy of war does not alter that.
RC's first comment is correct, I suppose - the difference is more a matter of emphasis - IIRC speakers like Powell and even Bush emphasized the atrocities against the Kurds more to make the point that here was a man who WOULD use WMD, than as a rationale for the war on its own. While Wolfie and others indicated a human rights rationale, that was certainly not the center of the case (for many reasons) In any case I think its not at all unreasonable to expect that HRW wants to distance itself from a controversial action taken based on their info.
#8
LH: Who said it was HRW's info? The US government has many ways of getting information besides a private organization. Spies, satellites, Iraqi refugees, intercepted radio transmissions, and more are all used to draw the overall picture.
Sure, HRW is a good source for information. However, if they continue to move towards left of center, then how long before they start ommiting important details or just plain out lying? How long before they become the NYT of the Humanitarian organizations?
I don't care if they critisize Bush. What I do care about is them belittleing the genocides of Saddam just to take a pot-shot at our current Administration. If they had said " Look, Bush did the may have stopped an evil dictator from killing more people, but it was wrong because," and then explain it. That would have been find. But HRW has in this statement dismissed the lives of over 500,000 people who were murdered as trivial.
That is what most of us are pissed about.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/26/2004 15:03 Comments ||
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#9
In any case I think its not at all unreasonable to expect that HRW wants to distance itself from a controversial action taken based on their info.
Yeah, gotta admire a "human rights" organization distancing itself from the ending of government-run rape squads.
Sorry, LH, but HRW is simply wrong on this. They're taking this position not to protect any of their field workers (third world dictators regard them all as spies, regardless of the positions taken by their parent organizations), but to protect their funding base.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 15:07 Comments ||
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#10
1. HRW as source - in some case HRW does its own independent work IIUC. Secondly, they have credibility around the world that - lets face it - the US govt doesnt have - and thats not a knock on Bush, it was true under Clinton as well.
2. I didnt say they were right. I think they ARE wrong, but there position is still understandable. Prior to Kosovo, it was more or less settled international law that internal matters of a state, even genocide, were not Casus Belli. Some folks, including Michael Walzer, and I think HRW, wanted to push Int Law to allow for intervention to stop imminent genocide. This became urgent after Rwanda. In Kosovo NATO effectively went on record in favor of this change, and did so without the approval of the UNSC. It is thus an emerging principle of international law, and still a shaky one.
Now I, as much as anyone would like to see a MUCH broader view of genocide as Casus Belli. And a much more severe limitation of the rights of ANY non-democracy under international law. And i certainly see nothing wrong with the Bush admin pushing such a broad interpretation, especially given that the HR argument is coupled with the grand strategic need to transform the region, and the still valid WMD concerns (a. JIT WMDs, B. WMD programs in violation of UNSC 1441, etc. C. Whatever else comes out) However HRW is coming from a different place - they see a world where even the Kosovo justification - an ongoing genocide - still has shaky status under international law - and tying themselves to the Bush admin would undermine their influence in any future arguments. Lets face it - there ARE going to be future genocides in the world, and at least some will be in places where the US has NO Strategic interest in getting involved, and is not eager to do so. At that point HRW will be a lonely voice calling for intervention, and they want to maximize their credibility in such a case. Not having supported the US may well make them more credible.
#11
LH - I'm not buying it. It's a fact that GWB has liberated more people than any "human rights" org, but will never be given credit for it. HRW's "world-wide credibility"? Puhlease!
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 16:05 Comments ||
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#12
credibility
Look, i come here cause i dont like the left wing echo chambers - but sometimes this place is an echo chamber of a different kind. You may not like it, and I may not like it, but liberating Iraq is NOT seen as something that gives Bush credibility in most countries in the world - now there are many reasons for that, from geopolitics, to ignorance, to antisemitism and antiamericanism, etc. But its a fact that HRW among others has to live with. Its all very well to sit here and post or blog about how great GWB is - you dont run an organization that needs to be able to influence public opinion in France and Germany and Belgium and Canada as WELL as in the US, Israel, Australia and the UK. I mean thats reality folks. And unlike some other organizations that might invoke the same considerations, HRW has actually done some good in the world - INCLUDING in Iraq, where HRW has provided evidence that I at least, have cited in forums much less friendly to US policy than this one.
#13
Yeah, it's so much more important for them to protect their reputation among bigots and thugs than to state the truth.
Sorry, LH, but HRW is doing this to keep in good graces with the anti-American bigots (and some of them hold US citizenship) that fund them. And, honestly, I'm amazed that liberating millions of people from a "government" with official rape squads and torture chambers on every block is considered anything but a good thing. If the rest of the world doesn't like it, well, the rest of the world be damned.
That the "human rights" community prefers to damn the US than to tell the truth is a sad comment on what "human rights" means today.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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#14
Re: credibility, I feel by not supporting the invasion HRW--along with France, Germany, and Russia, among others--has LOST credibility. This was an opportunity for the world to tell dictators globally and perennially that we have had enough and we are going to take you down!
I can't count how many times I saw "Nie Wieder!" ("Never again!") scrawled on walls and buildings in Germany when I was there years ago, and yet it has happened again and again and again! They should have scrawled "Immer Wieder!" instead since Germany and the bulk of "Old Europe" can't be bothered to stop it.
GWB may be one of the most controversial and hated political personas of our time, but so was Lincoln in his day. I dare say that GWB will be held right up there with Lincoln among the great presidents someday for what he has done to liberate a people and fight a bitter battle--and, like FDR unfortunately, to have given us taxpayers an even bigger and bloated government.
Does HRW believe its mission is important, but not important enough to make sacrifices to achieve it? Or are they content to point out the cancer yet criticize the surgeon who removes it?
Posted by: Dar ||
01/26/2004 16:39 Comments ||
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#15
Too bad Uday is not still alive to give the HRW folks a personal demonstration of his humane plastics/people shredder. (Another dual use device.) Meanwhile, the well known humanitarian, Qusay, could romance the female members of HRW.
What were these people thinking?
I know where your heart is at--I know that you believe what you say. But I think you've gotten swept away by semantic parsing of the language, and have basically boxed yourself into arguing that the "credibility" of this organization is more important than 1) the lives lost; and 2) the *principle* that brutal dictatorships that destroy and discard lives must be brought down.
Please, rethink how much value you place on this concept of "credibility".
#17
Dar> "This was an opportunity for the world to tell dictators globally and perennially that we have had enough and we are going to take you down!"
Nonsense. The whole "war on terror" was never an opportunity to tell dictators such a thing, given how there still existed brutal dictators that supported US in this war.
You can't have it both ways -- if brutal dictators like that of Uzbekistan support such a war, then this war obviously can't be one that opposes the idea of brutal murdering dictatorships.
Or are you perhaps, Dar, in favour of the invasion of Uzbekistan on the basis of humanitarian reasons?
From one site I visited about Uzbekistan: "Current concerns include terrorism by Islamic militants, a nonconvertible currency, and the curtailment of human rights and democratization."
A short answer: We don't have to overthrow them all (some will topple because of what we've already done), nor do we have to be everywhere all at once--your argument is merely a distraction from the central point of this discussion (Iraq).
#19
Aris and Flaming Sword, it's worth noting that Uzbekistan is on the right side of the WOT and does receive military aid from the US (not a great deal).
With regrads to the massacres conducted by SH, I do not recall a huge international uproar by western governments following the gassing of the Kurds (the left didn't do much either).
With regards to the massacres of the Shia moslems following GW1, didn't the US Administration encourage the population to rise against SH with the implied belief that they will help any such action?
#20
After some more thought about this, I think this isn't just the normal "human rights" industry anti-American throat-clearing, but their attempt to deal with a damaging criticism: Why was Kosovo OK, but Iraq not?
This is their answer: Kosovo was good because genocide was actively happening; Iraq was bad because the death squads were on hold. Never mind that the torturers and government rapists were still active; never mind the political prison filled with kids; no death squads were running at the moment the US invaded, so the timing was all wrong.
Igs -- the left never cared about the Kurds. Back in 1991, during arguments in college about the Gulf War, my friends and I brought up Saddam's gassing of the Kurds. The response then was the same as now: complete indifference or attempts to blame the US. As far as the left is concerned, it's only a crime if it's commited by the US or an ally of the US.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 21:02 Comments ||
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#21
RC, I did state that the left didn't care about the Kurds, however, it should be pointed out that the right felt pretty much the same way
#22
So I guess HRW's main argument is "timing is everything"?
So, according to them, any Nazi war criminals still out walking around can quit worrying and start enjoying life? What the hell, it was 60 years ago, right?
#23
Aris--I support ending all brutal dictatorships. Unfortunately we can't end them all at once, so sometimes we need to be two-faced and work with them to get rid of another (like allying with Stalin to get rid of Hitler). But I support getting rid of all of them, one way or another, in good time.
I would expect any citizen who lives in a free country where he can elect his own representatives, choose his path in life, and voice dissent without being brutalized by his government to want the same thing for others.
Unfortunately, I don't make US policy, and US policy can change very wildly every four years, so I don't know how consistent my own country will be in the continuing War on Terror. However, I can hope and will continue to voice support for the remaining regimes like North Korea, Iran, and, yes, Uzbekistan to be pressured one way or another to make reforms or be forcefully dragged into the 21st century.
That's my ideal. Meanwhile, in the practical world, considering how many thousands of people Saddam butchered over a period of 30 years with impunity, considering how little the UN was willing to do about it beyond passing yet another resolution, and considering the uproar domestically and internationally that resulted from actually removing the bastard from power, I would be surprised if anything more of substance happens again in my lifetime. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.
Posted by: Dar ||
01/26/2004 21:26 Comments ||
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#24
Aris, I'm surprised you didn't argue that Saddam Hussein was rightfully elected. In your way of thinking it wouldn't be a stretch.
Posted by: Rafael ||
01/26/2004 22:11 Comments ||
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#25
America is the parent, the anti-Americans are the rebellious teens. That's the truth; the rest is details.
These groups know that America is one of the few places on earth which will tolerate such tantrums. If these groups (countries, etc...) get into trouble, they know Uncle Sam will probably protect them.
yawn. Second verse, same as the first...
Posted by: Les Nessman ||
01/26/2004 23:23 Comments ||
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#26
Rafael, no offense, but you have no clue about my way of thinking.
That this wasn't a "humanitarian" war, nor was it ever presented as one, (nor *could* it ever be presented as one without people worldwide laughing their heads off), has nothing to do with whether I consider the war morally justified. Frankly I'd think any war morally justified if it helps topple a dictator and install a democracy in its place.
But that doesn't mean I have to delude myself into thinking that the moral justification of *this* war had anything to do with its *reasons*.
I have repeatedly stated that I didn't oppose this war on moral but on practical reasons -- because I didn't see a way the situation could end up with a stable free and democratic secular Iraq, rather than a playground for Iranian Islamofascists or a country riven by continuous civil war...
Brian Taylor, a Marine reservist, servied in Fox Company, Second Battalion, 23rd Marines during Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Wall Street Journal is publishing his diary in serial form, beginning today. It looks to be an interesting read, to judge from todayâs installment. An excerpt:
17 Mar 03
The time is 11:15 Zulu and Sgt. McMullen just passed word that at 1500 we will be loading our sea bags into the Conex boxes (for storage in Kuwait). Presumably this is in preparation for crossing the line of departure. I will enclose this journal in my bag at that time and take a blank one with me. There is a chance that we wonât get our bags back--ever. I hope that isnât the case, as I want my journal and all the other contents of my bag.
The battalion is getting ready to publish its frag order (short for "fragmentary"; an update to a standing operations order). Our initial mission is changed.
I love my family. I long to see my wife. I long to play with my children. I am positively desperate to see and hold John Byron. God keep each of them.
Part 2 will appear next Monday.
Posted by: Mike ||
01/26/2004 10:53:57 AM ||
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The first ceremony highlighted the rehabilitated Maâari Substation in Baghdad that features a new and rehabilitated Control Center, Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition system as well as remote transfer units. The $14 million projects will provide for monitoring and control over distribution of electrical power in Baghdad. Unlike in the past, this new distribution system will allow hospitals and other critical need areas to now receive a continuous supply of electricity. It also will ensure reliable and consistent service to all neighbourhoods, factories, schools, and office buildings throughout Baghdad.
The second ribbon-cutting followed Maâari at the Baghdad South substation and heralded the activation of the 400 KV Baghdad (South) to Diyaniwa electrical power line, a critical main electric line reinforcing and stabilizing the Baghdad super ring electric architecture. The 5 month, $10 million project will add substantial stability to the power grid and will allow bulk generation to flow to and from Southern Iraq and Baghdad.
The top US military occupation commander in Iraq has said there is evidence ties may be growing between al-Qaida and "Saddam Hussein loyalists" waging a bloody insurgency in the country. "What you see is a lot of fingerprints in terms of the tactics and techniques and procedures that are being employed. We are working very hard to establish whether there are today positive links," Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez said in an interview. "We believe that those links may be growing."
Because the one team has lost its captain, they're combining the two...
Sanchez said the devastating car bombings against Western troops had raised fears al-Qaida had a hand in the bloodshed. "It is the frequency of the attacks and the types of attacks that are being conducted. You have Nasariya, you have Karbala, quite complex attacks with car bombs," he said. "Those are typically tactics al-Qaida has been using. That causes us to look with a little bit more focus, trying to establish what their operating capability is in the country."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:02:53 AM ||
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The United States has captured two senior Al Qaida operatives in Iraq.
We knew that...
U.S. officials said one Al Qaida operative was captured near the Iranian border by allied Kurdish forces. The other was nabbed by U.S. Special Operations troops.
We didn't know that.
Both operatives were identified as senior members of Al Qaida or its satellite organization. Officials said the capture could help the United States understand the extent of Al Qaidaâs network, particularly in Iraq. Hasan Ghul was captured on Thursday during what officials said was a visit to Iraq. Ghul was identified as a senior Al Qaida operative based in Pakistan and a colleague of former operations chief Khaled Sheik Mohammed. Ghul was said to have conducted a mission to help organize new cells in Iraq.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:00:34 AM ||
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#1
Found this on another site. Didn't see any references to the JFK assassination. Didn't look like Debka. I don't know that it's accurate - though it might pertain to Ghul's capture.
On 22 January 2004, the Northeast Intelligence Network was in contact with two intelligence sources and one military source who separately and independently verified that that a "major Special Ops grab and go mission" took place about 48 hours prior in the southern region of Iran, a place we would not normally like to admit we have been. A HVT (High Value Target) of al Qaeda was scooped by special forces and removed from Iran. The sources would not identify the "target," but refused to deny that it was bin Laden. We were advised that other al Qaeda captures have been and would continue to take place, many from new information obtained from recently captured al Qaeda sources.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 11:31 Comments ||
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#2
NIN is pretty much the goyyim version of Debka, from what I've seen of it. There have been reports of US Special Forces running black ops in and out of Iran for the last year - I even saw one on a fairly reliable Indian intel website. I would generally take NIN with a grain of salt, though ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:41 Comments ||
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American intelligence agencies failed to detect that Iraqâs unconventional weapons programs were in a state of disarray in recent years under the increasingly erratic leadership of Saddam Hussein, the C.I.A.`s former chief weapons inspector said in an interview late Saturday. The inspector, David A. Kay, who led the governmentâs efforts to find evidence of Iraqâs illicit weapons programs until he resigned on Friday, said the C.I.A. and other intelligence agencies did not realize that Iraqi scientists had presented ambitious but fanciful weapons programs to Mr. Hussein and had then used the money for other purposes.
Wasn't that kind of a dangerous thing to do in Shredderland?
Dr. Kay also reported that Iraq attempted to revive its efforts to develop nuclear weapons in 2000 and 2001, but never got as far toward making a bomb as Iran and Libya did. He said Baghdad was actively working to produce a biological weapon using the poison ricin until the American invasion last March. But in general, Dr. Kay said, the C.I.A. and other agencies failed to recognize that Iraq had all but abandoned its efforts to produce large quantities of chemical or biological weapons after the first Persian Gulf war, in 1991.
From interviews with Iraqi scientists and other sources, he said, his team learned that sometime around 1997 and 1998, Iraq plunged into what he called a "vortex of corruption," when government activities began to spin out of control because an increasingly isolated and fantasy-riven Saddam Hussein had insisted on personally authorizing major projects without input from others. After the onset of this "dark ages," Dr. Kay said, Iraqi scientists realized they could go directly to Mr. Hussein and present fanciful plans for weapons programs, and receive approval and large amounts of money. Whatever was left of an effective weapons capability, he said, was largely subsumed into corrupt money-raising schemes by scientists skilled in the arts of lying and surviving in a fevered police state. "The whole thing shifted from directed programs to a corrupted process," Dr. Kay said. "The regime was no longer in control; it was like a death spiral. Saddam was self-directing projects that were not vetted by anyone else. The scientists were able to fake programs."
In interviews after he was captured, Tariq Aziz, the former deputy prime minister, told Dr. Kay that Mr. Hussein had become increasingly divorced from reality during the last two years of his rule. Mr. Hussein would send Mr. Aziz manuscripts of novels he was writing, even as the American-led coalition was gearing up for war, Dr. Kay said. Dr. Kay said the fundamental errors in prewar intelligence assessments were so grave that he would recommend that the Central Intelligence Agency and other organizations overhaul their intelligence collection and analytical efforts. Dr. Kay said analysts had come to him, "almost in tears, saying they felt so badly that we werenât finding what they had thought we were going to find â I have had analysts apologizing for reaching the conclusions that they did." In response to Dr. Kayâs comments, an intelligence official said Sunday that while some prewar assessments may have been wrong, "it is premature to say that the intelligence communityâs judgments were completely wrong or largely wrong â there are still a lot of answers we need." The official added, however, that the C.I.A. had already begun an internal review to determine whether its analytical processes were sound.
Dr. Kay said that based on his teamâs interviews with Iraqi scientists, reviews of Iraqi documents and examinations of facilities and other materials, the administration was also almost certainly wrong in its prewar belief that Iraq had any significant stockpiles of illicit weapons. "Iâm personally convinced that there were not large stockpiles of newly produced weapons of mass destruction," Dr. Kay said. "We donât find the people, the documents or the physical plants that you would expect to find if the production was going on. I think they gradually reduced stockpiles throughout the 1990âs. Somewhere in the mid-1990âs, the large chemical overhang of existing stockpiles was eliminated." While it is possible Iraq kept developing "test amounts" of chemical weapons and was working on improved methods of production, he said, the evidence is strong that "they did not produce large amounts of chemical weapons throughout the 1990âs."
Regarding biological weapons, he said there was evidence that the Iraqis continued research and development "right up until the end" to improve their ability to produce ricin. "They were mostly researching better methods for weaponization," Dr. Kay said. "They were maintaining an infrastructure, but they didnât have large-scale production under way." He added that Iraq did make an effort to restart its nuclear weapons program in 2000 and 2001, but that the evidence suggested that the program was rudimentary at best and would have taken years to rebuild, after being largely abandoned in the 1990âs. "There was a restart of the nuclear program," he said. "But the surprising thing is that if you compare it to what we now know about Iran and Libya, the Iraqi program was never as advanced," Dr. Kay said.
Dr. Kay said Iraq had also maintained an active ballistic missile program that was receiving significant foreign assistance until the start of the American invasion. He said it appeared that money was put back into the nuclear weapons program to restart the effort in part because the Iraqis realized they needed some kind of payload for their new rockets. While he urged that the hunt should continue in Iraq, he said he believed "85 percent of the significant things" have already been uncovered, and cautioned that severe looting in Iraq after Mr. Hussein was toppled in April had led to the loss of many crucial documents and other materials. That means it will be virtually impossible to ever get a complete picture of what Iraq was up to before the war, he added. "There is going to be an irreducible level of ambiguity because of all the looting," Dr. Kay said.
Dr. Kay said he believed that Iraq was a danger to the world, but not the same threat that the Bush administration publicly detailed. "We know that terrorists were passing through Iraq," he said. "And now we know that there was little control over Iraqâs weapons capabilities. I think it shows that Iraq was a very dangerous place. The country had the technology, the ability to produce, and there were terrorist groups passing through the country â and no central control."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:55:13 AM ||
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Fresh arrests of al-Qaeda members in Iraq support the claim that the terrorist group is attempting to stir up even more trouble in the U.S.-occupied country. Hasan Ghul was captured on Friday by Kurdish forces in Northern Iraq after they were tipped off by the CIA. He is now in U.S. custody. Ghul is a "big al-Qaeda facilitator-operator," says the official. Heâs pegged as ranking in the top 20 of the groupâs hierarchy.
Sounds like grounds for ululation. Break out the underpriced champagne!
The U.S. official continues: "Heâs very high up in the al-Qaeda food chain ... He was just coming into the country, we think probably to foment troubleâbut he didnât quite get the opportunity. The Kurds got him and turned him over us."
"Hi, there, Hasan! Welcome to Kurdistan! Stick 'em up!"
Also captured was Husam al Yemeni, whom a U.S. official in Iraq says was supplying money to the anti-American resistance and commanding attacks against coalition forces. Yemeni, says another U.S. intelligence source, is "an al-Ansar guy" and an aide to Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi.
Now, if we could just snag Zarqawi. That would be grounds for ululation...
Al-Ansar [Ansar al-Islam] is the homegrown Iraqi terror group and Zarqawi allegedly ran its operations in northern Iraq before the American forces battered its operatives during the war â though many Ansar terrorists escaped U.S. forces and later dispersed in Iraq. Intelligence sources believe that since then, Zarqawi has re-emerged in Iraq to lead forces allied to al-Qaeda in the armed resistance to the U.S. occupation. Al-Yemeni, says one source, is a "senior guy," someone with the capacity to "make stuff happen, a planner. He wasnât conducting attacks himself, probably, but he was helping mastermind them."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:47:24 AM ||
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#1
"in the U.S.-occupied country." Umm..I believe that should be "liberated", dunce.
Snicker..I guess when you're leaders are being rounded up like lost cattle on an open range, if this is the best snide remark your friendly reporters can manage, you're in trouble.
#2
Just how big a bigshot is Ghul? I was wondering why he would be sneaking into Iraq when it would be safer to send a underling. Is it normal for him to be doing stuff like that or:
1. Does al-Qaeda think it's so unstable it's safe to slip in and out?
2. There is a operation so big planned he had to come and take the risk?
3. Al-Gaeda's ranks have been so depleted he had to come.
4. He ain't that big?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 9:25 Comments ||
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#3
I think Ghul is an underling - for Zarqawi. He's just higher up in the pecking order than most underlings. Zarqawi, being too holy to risk his own sorry ass, sent one of his lieutenants to mastermind whatever it was he was looking to do.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#4
So, Osama bin Laden is the Caliph. While he's been on "sabatical", Grand Vizir Zarqawi is plotting evil deeds and dispatching trusted lieutenants like Hasan Ghul to distant lands to assume control of regional underlings who would order their minions to throw themselves into battle.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 13:30 Comments ||
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#5
Grand Vizir
You know.... that's a pretty good name for an SUV. Like the Grand Ayatollah but without the offroad package, courtesy lights and with triple knotted nylon plush upholstery instead of the Delmonico leather.
EFL
Japan is set to order the dispatch of its main army contingent to help rebuild Iraq after the junior party in the ruling coalition approved the mission. "The security situation is relatively stable and personnel were welcomed by the local people, tribal chiefs and the governor," Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi told parliament on Monday. Koizumi, leader of the dominant Liberal Democratic Party, later met Takenori Kanzaki, head of its partner the New Komeito party, who gave his approval to the mission. Defence Minister Shigeru Ishiba was expected to issue the orders for the new dispatch later on Monday, media said. Following Ishibaâs order, some 80 ground troops could depart as early as February 3. Three C-130 cargo planes with around 50 air force personnel left earlier on Monday, following around 100 air force personnel who left last Thursday. They are expected to start hauling food and medicine to Iraq from Kuwait next month. An advance team reported last Friday that security is stable in the southern Iraq town of Samawa, where the Japanese troops will be based. Thank you, Japan!
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 1:55:37 AM ||
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An influential Sunni Muslim group in Iraq said yesterday it was opposed to partial elections scheduled for the summer and wanted a vote taken only when American forces had left the country. The opposition of the newly organised Council for Sunnis in Iraq represents another dilemma for the US-led administration in Baghdad, which is already under pressure to rewrite its political programme in Iraq a second time. This isnât a dilemma, itâs an opportunity. We can teach the Sunnis the elemental parts of cause-and-effect.
Earlier this month, officials at the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) began to reconsider their idea of regional caucuses to select a new government because of criticism from a powerful Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who demanded democratic direct elections. At the same time, the authority must balance the mounting frustration of the Sunni community, which although smaller than the Shia, has traditionally formed the ruling class and feels excluded from the political process. Only way to get the power back is civil war, and that wonât happen while weâre there. Sabah al-Qaisi, one of the founders of the Sunni council, told the Guardian that his members would not accept any elections organised by the US-led authority. "Thatâs âcause weâre a minority and we want our power back!"
The council, formed last month, is one of the first political groups to have emerged to represent the Sunni community since the Baath party was outlawed last year. It comprises around 160 Sunni clerics, from moderates to extreme Islamists, although it cannot claim to speak for the entire community. I doubt they can speak for all 160 of them.
"Trying to push the Sunnis away from their political rights will leave the country in a mess," said Mr Qaisi, a cleric who spent two years and three months in jail under Saddam Hussein for following the hardline Salafi school of Islam. "We want real, free and decent elections. Elections under occupation are not the correct way to do it. We want the Americans to leave and then we will hold elections." Demands for democratic elections by a Salafist? Whatâs next, charity from a banker?
One of the reasons that the CPA has said it is impractical to hold direct elections in Iraq this summer is the poor security situation. Military commanders say that insurgents are expected to launch attacks to disrupt the process. Polling stations in the Sunni heartland north and west of Baghdad, which has proved the most violent area of Iraq, are likely to be particularly vulnerable. That might further discourage Sunnis from voting and produce a government even more heavily weighted in favour of the Shias. Awwwh, wouldnât that be too bad?
"Because of the security situation, I am telling you the elections will not succeed," said Mr Qaisi. "There will not be elections and the Sunnis will not participate in any elections." No problem, you wonât mind a new parliament thatâs 65% Shiâa and 35% Kurd.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 1:46:21 AM ||
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#1
Clueless! is entirely inadequate to describe these people.
#2
"...wanted a vote taken only when American forces had left the country."
This makes me think that they don't want elections,since the removal of U.S. troops would leave the Sunies surounded by the Kurds and Shias with one hell of a mean axe to grind.
#3
It's not hard to imagine a future in which the Sunnis are begging us for protection from the Kurds and Shia's.
"Your transmission is breaking up, Fallujah. Say again."
Posted by: Matt ||
01/26/2004 7:48 Comments ||
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#4
Next the Kurds will be making election demands too? This is a direct result of our not telling Sistani to STFU. We have not struck sufficient fear into them to gain necessary respect.
Posted by: Tom ||
01/26/2004 8:39 Comments ||
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#5
Time for a good old sack party for Sistani, Kadr, and the likes of Qaisi.
#6
Don't get your rag in an uproar, pal. It's just the Shi'a - it could be worse. If the horris Sufis got in, why, they might MOCK you or somethin', and then your head would probably explode from humiliation...
EFL
Japanâs ruling coalition and top opposition party agreed Monday on legislation that allows Japan to unilaterally impose economic sanctions. The legislation authorizes the government to independently halt remittances, stop trade, and impose other restrictions on the flow of money and goods to and from another country. Japanese law currently only allows such steps if they are made in response to a U.N. resolution or another multinational agreement. The bill â which amends the foreign exchange law â doesnât specifically target North Korea, but was drawn up with the isolated communist state in mind. "We want to pass the bill promptly," said Jin Murai, a lawmaker from the ruling Liberal Democratic Party after meeting opposition party officials on the amendment. "We need to do so to most powerfully express the will of Japan."
The LDP aims to have both chambers of Parliament approve the bill within the next few weeks. Since the billâs backers â the LDP, its coalition partner the New Komeito, and the opposition Democratic Party â together control about 95 percent of the seats in the more powerful lower chamber of Parliament, its passage is virtually assured. To win Democratic support for the bill, the LDP agreed to incorporate a provision stipulating that Parliament must approve any sanctions that are unilaterally imposed by Tokyo on another country. It is unclear whether Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi would impose sanctions once this bill is passed, but his deputy, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda, said last week that the law would give Japan the option of taking punitive measures if needed.
The cooperation between Koizumiâs LDP and the Democrats on the amendment underscores the broad support in Japan for moves to pressure North Korea into addressing the matter of Japanese abducted by the communist state. North Korea acknowledged in 2002 it had kidnapped over a dozen Japanese citizens in the 1970s and 1980s to teach Japanese language and culture to its spies, confirming for the first time the suspicions of investigators and family members. But the North said most of those it abducted had since died and only provided sparse details of how, angering Tokyo. And while five of the surviving abductees have since returned to Japan, their families are still in North Korea while the two countries remain locked in a diplomatic standoff. Tokyo wants Pyongyang to send to Japan the families left behind in North Korea before it will resume talks to establish diplomatic relations and discuss providing economic aid to the impoverished country. Japan is also pushing the North to disclose more about those who allegedly died and dozens more possible kidnap victims Japan believes may be living in the North.
A support group for abduction victimsâ families has pushed for economic sanctions since last year. The lawmakers involved with drawing up the bill have been some of the most aggressive backers of the families and their support group. North Korea, meanwhile, has repeatedly stated it would consider economic sanctions "an act of war." I think that the Japanese are mad.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 2:08:03 PM ||
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#1
I think that the Japanese are mad.
And we all remember what happened last time they got pissed off. Granted, they were fighting out of their weight class, but they had us on the ropes for nearly 18 months. And when a lightweight manages to get a heavyweight on the ropes, even for a moment or three, you got to respect their fighting spirit.
Yep.. the NorK's have stepped in it big time.
Ed.
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
01/26/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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#2
Oh no....not more unilateral action! The French are gonna be pissed.....
EFL
If efforts to protect a patch of Sulu Sea off northeast Borneo go as private managers plan, they may need some serious military muscle to guard the siteâs underwater assets from human predators. Beware. I hear the drums of the Sulu nation.
Mature grouper, giant clams and exotic corals around Lankayan Island would fetch big money in a poor region dogged by piracy, tourist kidnappings and blast and cyanide fishing. I have lived in Virginia, NC and in Kentucky but have never heard of cyanide fishing.
"Thatâs something that we have to discuss with the military, with the authorities and with the enforcement police," says Joe Don Baker, an executive with management firm Reef Guardian. "We donât want to get hurt and we donât want to cause any loss of life," he added. Such potential riches have caught the eye of the Indonesian, Malaysian and Philippine governments, making clear the cost of neglecting an area plagued by sovereignty wrangles. Next month, the governments are due to announce plans for a Sulu-Sulawesi Marine Ecoregion, tying development for the areaâs 45 million inhabitants to the fate of its corals, whales and turtles. The proposal will be one highlight of a meeting from Feb. 9 to 20 in Kuala Lumpur on biodiversity, when government delegates from around the world will seek ways to slow the rate of global species loss... The proposed ecoregion would extend an existing network of protected areas, beef up turtle conservation efforts and create a sustainable fisheries plan straddling partnersâ maritime borders. A first, 10-year phase will target 58 high priority sites for projects requiring $40 million by raid $120M from American taxpayers in global funding. Geoffrey Davison, WWF (arenât they already fundedby the tutuâd guys that wrassle on PPV)
Malaysiaâs Borneo program director, sees the basinâs existing protected zones as a solid baseline from which to start. "There are some areas also which deserve further protection and a much larger area which demands management rather than protection," he says. "That combination of management and protection is the crucial thing, itâs not just protection." Isnât thak like an eco-weenie sacrilege?
Increased Malaysian security since tourist kidnappings by armed Filipino raiders on two Sabah resorts in 2000 has helped the stateâs reefs recover as illegal fishing activity declined. For Lankayan, that means regular patrol boat calls and some three dozen M16-toting soldiers deployed at night on its beaches. So the WOT has helped the enviroment. Well tra-la-la. Let us cavort to the pan pipes
Reef Guardian conceived and established the conservation zone encompassing Lankayan, persuading various Sabah ministries to give it operational control subject to their oversight. It charges a management fee of 20 ringgit ($5.30) per tourist per night to cover the expense, which Baker says is key. Hey, no fair. You used capitalism!!! Free the oppressed tortoisi or totoises!! Oh whaterever. And free that Mumia guy too.
"Itâs got to make a buck and itâs got to provide the funding to maintain the conservation area," he said, adding that private sector players could play a big part in conservation worldwide. Somebody stop this guy and his imflamatory statements!!!!
Although all three countries bordering the Sulu-Sulawesi seas run marine protected areas, they have generally struggled for lack of funds, management skill and enforcement. Sabah Tourism Board chief Zainal Adlin, who is also WWF Malaysia chairman and an avid diver himself, says public or private approaches are fine as long as locals benefit. "After all, conservation is for whom, for what? Of course for biodiversity and ecological processes and so on but most important, it must have direct benefit to the community." Iâm me.l.l.l.t.t.t.ing.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 12:10:19 PM ||
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#1
I have lived in Virginia, NC and in Kentucky but have never heard of cyanide fishing.
Maybe divers carry cyanide packets down and squirt the contents into the giant clams' intake siphon???
A soldier and three civilians were shot dead and 21 others wounded in violence in the southern Philippines on Sunday. Unknown gunmen raided the village of Upper Tominobo near Iligan city before dawn and raked the houses with automatic gunfire, killing three civilians and wounding 10 others, military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Lucero said. Separately, Abu Sayyaf Muslim guerrillas killed a soldier and wounded 11 others in a firefight near Patikul town on Jolo island, Lucero told reporters. The soldiers were escorting local students on an educational tour in the village of Pansul. None of the students were hurt in the ambush.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:11:36 AM ||
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raked the houses with automatic gunfire, killing three civilians and wounding 10 others,
Ah yes... the Imfamous {Abu Sayyaf | MILF | JI} bravery and honor in action.
Radical Indonesian cleric Abu Bakar Bashir received a message from Osama bin Laden in 2001 inviting him to move to Afghanistan, prosecutors told a Jakarta court on Monday. They said the message from bin Laden was passed on by a top terror suspect called Hambali and was delivered to Bashir by a man called Muhammad Rais. Prosecutors made the allegation in their indictment against Rais, who went on trial Monday on charges related to the Marriott hotel blast in Jakarta last August. Foreign governments have long alleged that Bashir was head of the al Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) terror group. A district court last September convicted Bashir of treason by taking part in a JI plot to overthrow the government. An appeal court in November overturned that conviction but ruled that Bashir must serve three years for immigration offences and forging documents. He is appealing against that ruling to the supreme court and a decision is expected this week.
The prosecutors, who took turns reading Raisâs indictment, said Rais returned to Jakarta on September 12, 2001, after studying for two years in Pakistan and Afghanistan. He travelled to the town of Bogor to deliver a letter from Hambaliâs brother, who lived in Pakistan, to his family there. The next day, prosecutors said, Rais travelled to the city of Solo to meet Bashir and to deliver a message from bin Laden which he (Rais) had received from Hambali. Hambali was in Afghanistan at the time. "The content of the message was greetings from Sheikh Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden invited Abu Bakar Bashir to go to Afghanistan if he thinks the situation in Indonesia for Abu Bakar Bashir does not make it possible for him to live in Indonesia," the indictment said.
The link doesn't come as a surprise. The method of conveyance is interesting. And of course it reinforces Pakistan's position as the epicenter of international terrorism.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 8:49:13 AM ||
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Has it started?
President Mohammad Khatami has delegated a team to probe into recent unrest at a town in the southeast Kerman province in which four people were killed and dozens others injured. "Delegations from the Presidential Office, Interior Ministry and Kerman Governor General`s Office are examining the unrest in Shahr-e Babak," said Seifollah Shahdad-Nejad, who put the toll at four people killed and 40 others injured. The casualties came after riot police fought a pitched battle to hold protestors from rampaging state buildings, including police and the governor`s offices. They followed a sit-in held by a group of disgruntled workers at a copper smelting plant to protest their layoffs by their contractors, but got ugly when a gang of 300 motorbikers started attacking state property in the town. Shahdad-Nejad did not rule out the work of `mischief with the support of a certain group` which led to the mayhem, saying the issue was being investigated.
Now I'm curious. I wonder which group that was...
According to the governor, some of the wounded sustained their injuries in clashes with the baton-wielding riot police, while others were hurt by flying objects, thrown by the workers. He said calm had been restored to the city and the situation was under control. On Monday, funeral processions are expected to be held for the dead in Shahr-e Babak, which Shahdad-Nejad hoped, would pass off peacefully.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 21:11 ||
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#1
Fred, you don't think there was a penis-snatcher loose down there? That can really stir up a local populus.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 21:48 Comments ||
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#2
300 motorbikers? Not...the Motorcycle Club of Doom�??
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 21:54 Comments ||
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From Middle East Newsline....
The Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah has raised its profile in the Middle East and concluded a rare meeting with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. They will probably meet again at the big she-bang in Teheran.
Islamic sources said a Hizbullah delegation met Muslim Brotherhood general guide, or spiritual leader, Mohammed Mahdi Akef on Saturday in Cairo. The arrival of the Hizbullah delegation, which included parliamentarian Mohammed Hassan Yaghi, was approved by Egyptian authorities as part of an effort to reconcile with Egyptâs Islamic groups, the sources said. Our 2 gigadollar/yr friends, the Egyptians. *sigh*
Hizbullah and the Brotherhood were said to have agreed to cooperate on a range of issues. They included Brotherhood support for Hizbullahâs insurgency war against Israel as well as an effort to spread Islamic teachings that are common to both Sunni and Shiâite sects. Ah, yes. More teachings, just what the ME needs, like a moose needs a hatrack.
Akef praised Hizbullah for its program to advance Islamic interests. The Brotherhood leader, appointed earlier this month, said he intended to increase cooperation with the Shiâite group in the Arab and Islamic war against Israel. The Muslim Broâs of the âHood(or at least the leaders) are getting themselves on the Target Listâ¢. Once again, the solution is to cut off the financial resources they get from Iran for Hizbullah. There must be Saudi money in there too. Where do the boys from the âHood get their operating funding?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/26/2004 7:21:33 PM ||
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#1
moose and a hatrack - nice shot AP!
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 20:35 Comments ||
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EFL
For the first time, a federal judge has declared unconstitutional a very small section of the USA Patriot Act that bars giving expert advice or assistance to groups designated foreign terrorist organizations. In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available today, U.S. District Judge Audrey Collins said the ban is impermissibly vague in its wording. The U.S. Justice Department is reviewing the ruling, spokesman Mark Corallo said in a statement from Washington. Corallo called the Patriot Act â the federal anti-terrorism statute passed in the aftermath of Sept. 11 â "an essential tool in the war on terror" and asserted that the portion at issue in the ruling was only a modest amendment to a pre-existing anti-terrorism law.
David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who argued the case on behalf of the Humanitarian Law Project, declared the ruling "a victory for everyone who believes the war on terrorism ought to be fought consistent with constitutional principles." The case before the court involved five groups and two U.S. citizens seeking to provide support for lawful, nonviolent activities on behalf of Kurdish refugees in Turkey. The Humanitarian Law Project said the plaintiffs were threatened with 15 years in prison if they advised groups on seeking a peaceful resolution of the Kurdsâ campaign for self-determination in Turkey. The judgeâs ruling said the law, as written, does not differentiate between impermissible advice on violence and encouraging the use of peaceful, nonviolent means to achieve goals. Probably because there is no way to differentiate between the two. What the U.N. and EU consider peaceful (i.e. bombing and murdering innocent people in buses in Israel) I call violent (among other things).
"The USA Patriot Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature," the judge said. The ruling specified that the plaintiffs seek to provide support to "the lawful, nonviolent activities" of the Kurdistan Workersâ Party and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, an advocate group advocate group?
for the Tamil people in Sri Lanka. Both groups are on a list issued by former Secretary of State Madeline Albright in 1997 of "foreign terrorist organizations." In Sri Lanka, the Tamil Tiger rebels have been engaged in a two-decade civil war that has killed more than 65,000 people. This fits the definition of ânon-violenceâ?
Turkeyâs military has been battling Kurdish rebels seeking autonomy since 1984, a fight that has left some 37,000 people dead.
Leading Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry on Monday said the government in Israel currently lacks someone who can provide the goods in everything connected to negotiations with the Palestinians. "Itâs very difficult for Israel to negotiate because in Israel there is nobody to negotiate to actually deliver," Kerry said at a political rally in New Hampshire ahead of Tuesdayâs primary. Kerry also criticized the settlement policy of the Israeli government and said that it was a mistake to increase building there at this time. The Massachusetts senator called for strengthening the Palestinian Authority so that it will be stronger than Hamas. "Itâs important for us to leverage the Palestinian Authority in order for them to be stronger than Hamas on the ground," he said. Kerry promised that if elected president, he would ask former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to serve as special envoys to the region.
#1
It isn't clear if Kerry meant the first quote as a criticism of Israel or the Palestinians. However, the fact that he wants to send Jimmy to the region is a barely mitigated disaster.
#6
I thought that too, mhw, it wasn't clear who he was speaking of, Israel or the palestinians...haaretz took it to mean Israel.
Kerry could have been more clear, that's for sure.
Anyway, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter...yikes.
#7
pro-Paleo, anti-Joooos? Must be the French in him coming out, and him, with Jewish ancestors even!
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 15:57 Comments ||
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#8
nobody to negotiate
hmmm that means
1. Sharon wont deliver cause hes an extremist or whatever
2. Sharon wont deliver, cause hes preoccupied with scandal, internal politics, whatever
3. None on Pal side who can deliver, abu mazen gone, abu ala not working out, etc
Cant believe hes up enough on Israeli politics to have meant number 2. If he really meant something like number 1, wouldnt he have been clearer? of course you could say the same thing about 3. I think just some unclear speech whichever he meant (and probably meant 3) and to be fair to you GOPs, yes, if Bush had conflated Israel and the Pals as kerry seems to have done, hed be attacked for being dumb. Which would be unfair. You hereby have authorization to call kerry dumb.
#9
Has there been a recent canvasing of the "Jewish" vote.
Generally, jewish folk are liberal and vote for the Democratic Party. I forget previously mentioned percentages. However, Bush's forign policy and stance on the Middle East and on holding Arafat and the PA accountable for Terror certainly has scored him potential votes (mine included).
Two potential candidates, and serious ones at that (DEAN and KERRY), have made comments that diminish Israel and raise up Arafat and the PA.
Do they think this is a winning strategy?
Posted by: Daniel King ||
01/26/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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#10
LH, the sad part is that Kerry is probably the smartest one of the remaining candidates. With the possible exception of Al Sharpton of course. :)
#11
"Itâs very difficult for Israel to negotiate because in Israel there is nobody to negotiate to actually deliver," Kerry said at a political rally in New Hampshire ahead of Tuesdayâs primary.
Assuming that Kerry is talking about the Palestinians, then can't it be taken to mean that Arafart isn't worth a plugged nickel? If so, come right out and say it. No need to be hesitant about throwing a little support behind Israel - the Israelis have been far more honorable than Arafart and his thugs.
The Massachusetts senator called for strengthening the Palestinian Authority so that it will be stronger than Hamas. "Itâs important for us to leverage the Palestinian Authority in order for them to be stronger than Hamas on the ground," he said.
Kerry has got to be kidding.
Kerry promised that if elected president, he would ask former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to serve as special envoys to the region.
Well this has gotta cheer up the Palestinians a bit. If they're smart, they'll have Kimmie's number handy for consultation purposes...
#12
I think we're going to see the Jewish vote shift some towards Bush. I don't think he'll get a majority, but 30% makes it a lot closer in New York, Pennsylvania and other urban states this fall.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 17:22 Comments ||
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#13
I think sending Carter would be a great idea. I'm sure the Palestinian mobs would love to discuss his brokering a deal between Israel and Egypt.
#14
Oh, and why make the Pal Authority stronger than Hamas? Its easier to refer to them as East and West Palestine, creating two Palestinian states. Then any worries about connecting them with foolish corridors and land swaps fade away. It would avoid a civil war as well.
#15
RE #9 Daniel, here're results of a Dec 12 poll:
Jews give the president an approval rating of nearly 80 percent, according to a survey released Dec.12 by the Republican Jewish Coalition.
If the election were held today, the survey found, more Jews would vote for Bush -- 42 percent -- than for former presidential candidate Al Gore, who received 39 percent support.
In the 2000 election, Gore got 79 percent of the Jewish vote to Bush's 19 percent.
After Kerry's lame proposals,GW should get even more support.
#16
Gasse,
consider the source; we don't know the way the questions were worded, we don't know the context and worse, the results are contradictory, if 80% give him a favorable rating he should get more than a 42-39 vote over the woodman
#19
My personal opinion is neither the PA or Sharon's current government can be trusted. There is no use negotiating with the PA until all corruption is rooted out. Sharon's policies are to the point of human rights violation (and yes I acknowledge PA deals with Terrorism). However each side is not helping the overall cause of peace for both Israeli's and Palestinians.
#20
If Kerry means that we should send Arafat more money, then I disagree. If Kerry means that we should tell all the Palestinians that the US considers Arafat to be our boy, then I agree. That would kill him without continued expense for all the kilowatts we are expending on the deathray.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 21:35 Comments ||
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#21
Sharon's policies are to the point of human rights violation (and yes I acknowledge PA deals with Terrorism).
Oh really? So what does this mean - you consider the lives of terrorist leaders to be equal to that of Israeli civilians? Sorry, but that doesn't wash.
EFL from Guardian
The Algerian authorities have erased the first evidence to appear of the graves of the hundreds, if not thousands, of people believed to have been kidnapped and killed by army-backed anti-Islamist militias in the 1990s, according to human rights campaigners. Campaigners who secretly dug up a mass grave near the western town of Relizane last November, and who claim to have identified one militia victim buried there, said the site had since been cleaned out by police. The police now refuse to acknowledge the graveâs existence. But the human rights campaigners have photographic evidence, some of which the Guardian publishes today, showing the bones and clothing found near Relizane. It is the first public evidence of what campaigners believe is the last resting place of some 200 victims from Relizane, while thousands of other victims of state-backed militias are thought to be in similar graves elsewhere.
The scandal comes as pressure grows on President Abdelaziz Bouteflika, who is leading Algeria towards renewed acceptance by the west, to investigate the role of the so-called Patriot militias in the civil conflict that claimed 120,000 lives in the 1990s. The pressure comes from the families of the disappeared and from international groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch which want a full and public investigation into the fate of up to 7,000 people said to have gone missing after being picked up by the authorities. Mr Bouteflika is also facing opposition from army hardliners to his attempts to be re-elected president in April.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 2:16:20 PM ||
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#1
Why should Human Rights Watch care? Mass graves are evidence of past activities, something they've said just isn't all that important.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 15:11 Comments ||
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#2
RC, I enjoyed your bating of LH. Like our state department, HRW and AI seem to do some good work in some areas of the world and considerable damage in other places.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 15:26 Comments ||
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#3
Mass graves are evidence of past activities, something they've said just isn't all that important.
Of course mass graves aren't important to HRW. Such discoveries mean that "Human Rights Watch" hadn't been doing much in the way of watching where it counted.
Roy Clark, a British writer, has challenged his deportation from Zambia for allegedly insulting the president.
Did Roy Clark turn British when Hee-Haw went off the air?
He compared President Levy Mwanawasa to a "foolish elephant" in a satirical newspaper column. While his appeal was being heard, supporters of Mr Clarke clashed with ruling party activists outside the High Court. The BBCâs Penny Dale in Lusaka says some 300 of Mr Clarkeâs supporters arrived at court wearing white T-shirts, on which the controversial article in The Post newspaper had been reprinted. But then a minibus arrived with ruling party militants, shouting: "Weâre here because of that stupid writer from Britain, that Roy Clarke, he insulted our president." They ripped up some of the T-shirts before police fired teargas to disperse them. Wouldnât a round of wedgies and a bill for the damaged tee-shirts been more appropriate.
Judge Philip Musonda said he would deliver his judgement in about 40 days. Buck Owens had no comment.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 1:32:02 PM ||
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Roy Clark is being silenced by a corrupt regime! Free Roy Clark! *Crickets chirping* Um...and Bush is Hitler! *Cheering*
Posted by: Charles ||
01/26/2004 14:48 Comments ||
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#2
What about Minnie Pearl? Did she really die of natural causes?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 15:28 Comments ||
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#3
Call BR549 for important details on this story.
Soldiers from the 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment, âThe Old Guardâ, Bravo Company, established and began operating out of a forward base in rural Ethiopia this week. The base, named âCamp Unitedâ by company soldiers, will be used as a launching ground for local missions, predominately training with the Ethiopian military, said Sgt. 1st Class Fred L. Silhol IV, platoon sergeant of Bravoâs 1st platoon. The camp and the missions are part of the Bravo Co.âs continued involvement in the Global War on Terrorism as part of the Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa.
Camp United, located on a dusty swath of austere land encompassed by the Ethiopian Military Academy in Hurso, is a testament of determination and teamwork, Silhol said. Before soldiers arrived the camp area was nothing but six slabs of concrete and piles of dirt, Silhol said. âThere has been a 180 degree turnaround,â Silhol said. âIn 18 years in the Army, this was the sparsest place Iâve ever lived. It was a barren ground, and they turned it into a functioning forward base for the Old Guard.â In addition to large living tents, the base now has a functioning operations center, medical center, showers, toilets, exercise and weight room, field sanitation system, and a morale and welfare tent. âNo one here is a skilled carpenter, but they all came together and figured out a way to build this base and to make it their home,â Silhol said.
A few days after establishing Camp United, company soldiers began training with the Ethiopian military. The training will include infantry fundamentals such as marksmanship, physical fitness and movement techniques. Spc. Brandon A. Thorpe, a Bravo Co. soldier who helped establish Camp United, anticipated the training. âIâve looked forward to the training a lot,â Thorpe said. âIt will leave a little part of me back here, and the training will continue to help their soldiers long after Iâm gone.â Thorpe said he now feels at home on Camp United and has a sense of accomplishment for the sweat and teamwork he contributed to it. âI feel very proud of this place because I know we put this together with our hands. We made this happen,â Thorpe said. Silhol said in addition to training with the Ethiopian military, mission objectives include strengthening long-term relations with the Ethiopian Army and establishing working relations with locals. Pleased with the progress made towards these objectives, Silhol offered praise for the locals he has encountered. âThe people weâve come into contact with in Ethiopia have bent over backwards,â Silhol said. Silhol also said he is impressed with the Ethiopian Armyâs strict discipline in a setting of few comforts, an environment he hopes will leave an impression on Old Guard soldiers. âThere is no Morale Welfare & Recreation in the Ethiopian military, and I think our soldiers seeing that the Ethiopian Army works just as hard without these things will have a lasting impact,â Silhol said. Company soldiers will continue to operate CJTF-HOA missions out Camp United for the next several months.
#5
While the Old Guard is indeed the unit that conducts funerals and guards the tombs' of the Unknowns, they also continue to train as the infantry they are during that assignment.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 14:41 Comments ||
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#6
The OG does train as infantry - but their duties are very much ceremonial.
This smells of Pentagon "Ticket-Punching" for officers in the 3rd Infantry Regiment.
PASADENA/MARS â With one rover now ailing on Mars, NASA scientists were thrilled when its identical twin sent dazzling and intriguing photos from the other side of the Red Planet. Images of a smooth red surface arrived at NASAâs Jet Propulsion Laboratory about four hours after the rover Opportunity bounced to a landing late Saturday some 6,600 miles from its temporarily crippled twin, Spirit. "I am flabbergasted. I am astonished. I am blown away. Opportunity has touched down in an alien and bizarre landscape," said Steven Squyres of Cornell University, the missionâs main scientist. "I still donât know what weâre looking at." Dude, chill out
JPL director Charles Elachi told ABCâs "Good Morning America" on Monday that the outcroppings of bedrock visible in the pictures were "particularly exciting." "For a geologist, this is really a gold mine because that will allow us to learn where the oil is about the history of the planet and look at the layering in those rocks in a very specific location," he said. "So the scientists from Haliburton are absolutely ecstatic." The six-wheeled rover landed in Meridiani Planum, believed to be the smoothest, flattest spot on Mars. Opportunity lies 6,600 miles and halfway around the planet from where its twin, Spirit, landed on Jan. 3. On Sunday, NASA said Opportunity was in excellent health and Spirit was on the mend after a serious software problems had hobbled it. Opportunity could roll off its lander in 10 to 14 days, mission manager Arthur Amador said. Opportunityâs possible targets include a larger crater, maybe 500 feet across, that lies an estimated half-mile from where the spacecraft landed and a possible location of the banned Illudium Q36 Explosive Space Modulator program. On Wednesday, Spirit developed serious problems, cutting off what had been a steady flow of pictures and scientific data and prompting calls of quagmire. Engineers now believe the problem arose with software that manages the file system within the roverâs flash memory, project manager Pete Theisinger said. Other possible culprits include broken hardware or solar radiation. "Spirit is still serious but we are moving to guarded condition," Theisinger said, adding Spirit could resume normal operations in two to three weeks. "As soon as we insert the boot disk".
As of early Sunday, there were a record five spacecraft operating on or around Mars, including two NASA satellites and one from the European Space Agency orbiting the planet. Martian Defense spokesman Qaotz denied any landing had been made and threatened action against any overflights by orbiters as a "Violation of Martian Sovereignty".
"They are committing suicide at the gates of Deimos! Their digestive apparati are roasting in Quatspore! A curse on their palps!"
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 11:02:02 AM ||
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"I am flabbergasted. I am astonished. I am blown away. Opportunity has touched down in an alien and bizarre landscape," said Steven Squyres of Cornell University, the mission?s main scientist. "I still don?t know what we?re looking at."
Um...Mars, sir.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
01/26/2004 11:12 Comments ||
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#2
As Europe's first Mars probe remained stubbornly silent, British scientists announced a "last resort" plan Monday of switching off the missing Beagle 2's coColin Pillinger, lead scientist on the Beagle 2 program, said Mars Express passed over the probe's landing site twice over the weekend, but nothing was heard. Pillinger said his team would ask NASA to send a command from its Mars Odyssey orbiter on Tuesday to tell Beagle 2 to switch off its own computer and reload its software. "We are now working on the basis that this is a corrupt system and the only way we might resurrect it is to send such a command and completely reload the software, if it's still alive," Pillinger said at a news conference in London. "Of course, that is a very dangerous command to send because if the thing is AWOL, or even if it's there, it may never respond to it, so it's pretty much a last resort," he added.
Hundreds of high paid scientists, and all you come up with is Ctrl - Alt - Delete?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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#3
Just send the rover from Opportunity out on service calls to the other two probes.
(Yeah, it doesn't have the range. What a pity!)
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/26/2004 11:53 Comments ||
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#4
"We are now working on the basis that this is a corrupt system and the only way we might resurrect it is to send such a command and completely reload the software, if it's still alive," Pillinger said at a news conference in London. "Of course, that is a very dangerous command to send because if the thing is AWOL, or even if it's there, it may never respond to it, so it's pretty much a last resort," he added.
How "dangerous" could it be? The thing isn't responding anyway, so what're the alternatives?
#5
how long till the lefty loons start saying were tryimg to take over the galaxy and steal its oil?I say build a constellation of space based lasers just to piss them off
An extraordinary level of political violence in the tiny city of Sakaka, the capital of a remote province bordering Iraq, has the makings of the beginning of a popular revolution against the ruling al-Saud family. Residents of al-Jouf province say recent months have seen the assassination of the deputy governor and the execution-style killing of Sakakaâs police chief by a group of men who forced their way into his home. Earlier, the regionâs top Shariah, or religious law, court judge was shot at point-blank range as he drove to work. Seven men have been arrested for involvement in the shootings, according to Saudi officials, who say the attacks are linked and that the suspects may have had as many as 40 accomplices. ...
A Saudi who talked to the Qatar-based satellite-TV station Al Jazeera about suppression and growing instability in the kingdom in September was arrested live on the air, but before he was dragged away, he managed to say what is never heard from any Saudi media outlet. Abdul Aziz al-Tayyar told Al Jazeera by telephone that Saudi security forces had surrounded his home in Riyadh and were preparing to storm the house. As his door was being kicked in, Mr. al-Tayyar used his last minutes of freedom to tell millions of viewers that "all tribesmen are now willing to fight this government... We will protect the rights of our people."
Posted by: Former CNN Watcher ||
01/26/2004 10:43:16 AM ||
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Good. One step closer to a USA protectorate called the former-Saudi-oil-fields.
#2
The "rights of our people" line leads readers to believe that the overthrow would lead to a more secular state...BUT, I've read accounts that indicate that an overthrow would be BECAUSE the kingdom wasn't Islamic enough--in other words, that revolution would lead to an even *MORE* aggressive Islamic society.
Who here could help me sort out these differing viewpoints?
#3
FS - the full article on the above rebellion which was posted the other day and sited to Straits Times (does Wash Times read the Straights Times, or share a common source, or just read blogs?) indicated that the rebels indeed are full -fledged hardline wahabis, and the dispute with the House of Saud is over local influence and property, NOT religion. And indeed the main security threats the House of Saud has faced in recent months in Riydah, Mecca, Jiddah, al - Asir prov, etc have been from AQ and folks looking more MORE fundie regime. There also seems to be some opposition from folks looking for something more secular, but no evidence I know of of any actual violent opposition from such people, and little of any real strength on the ground - a few feminists, an oddball prince in exile, thats it.
The connections between such opposition groups (on both sides) and the factions IN the royal family are byzantine in complexity, and there meaning is highly disputed.
A rebel attack on a Russian military convoy killed four servicemen and injured a further four on Monday as a U.N. envoy began new talks on conditions in and around the turbulent region. Local officials said the convoy was halted by a roadside explosion outside a village in the Sharoi district in western Chechnya. The soldiers died in a subsequent shootout.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:07:09 AM ||
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A group of militants under the command of terrorist leader Shamil Basayev was destroyed in Chechnya, the Regional Operational Headquarters for counter-terrorist operations in the North Caucasus reported on Monday. The spokesman for the headquarters said that servicemen found a base for some 30 militants with a large amount of food and armaments close to the location of the battle. The servicemen removed sub-machineguns, grenades, ammunition, other military equipment and medicine from the cache.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:06:19 AM ||
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The coordinator for the Office of Homeland Security in East Tennessee says Al-Qaida is active in that part of the state. John Sterling told police, fire and emergency personnel that known terrorist supporters live in Eastern Tennessee. Officials met to discuss the best way to combat the threat and how to best spend federal dollars to keep the region safe. In addition to the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, other al-Qaida plots uncovered to date include targets with symbolic value in major population centers, such as the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, Los Angeles International Airport and Las Vegas. In Tennessee, officials say possible terrorist targets include nuclear production facilities at Oak Ridge and the Tennessee Valley Authorityâs dam system.
We haven't heard anything from al-Fuqra lately, have we?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/26/2004 9:03:57 AM ||
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#1
If the Rocky Top Brigade and East TN Redneck Rangers get wind of this, they'll load up the Armored RVs with the 33" Super-Swampers and go a huntin'!
We don't take too kindly to ferriners wantin' to blow up our stuff...especially the glowing stuff coming out of Y-12.
#2
I've lived in Tennessee, not far from the Nuclear Plant near Chattanooga. I've met with the backwoods people, and have full confidence that the General Militia of North Georgia won't be worried about anything from up there. It's red America from North Atlanta to Kentucky. Good luck, boys, and good hunting!
#3
Keep deer and bear in season year round. If you get low on game, we'll bus some in. Also, for fenced areas, the sub-Sahara drought has made rhino purchase very reasonable.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:54 Comments ||
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EFL - of all but a little stupidity. John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, won the Iowa caucuses and Wesley Clark, a former four-star US Army general, is one of the front-runners for Tuesdayâs vote. Mr Clark and Mr Kerry are certainly not typical Democratic candidates. According to Dennis Johnson, an associate dean at George Washington University, Democrats historically have been weak in fielding "warriors". A crack baby dean from GW speaks and the BBC prints it. Jimmah Carter, JFK. Even peace-nik George McGovern was a war hero. True not many generals run as Democrats but few run as Republicans either. Not many Generals have run at all since the Mexican War and the Indian wars. Most leave the service and are ready for retirement as generallying is ususally a 7-day a week 14 hour a day enterprise.
Colin Powell makes a much more credible Democratic presidential than Clark. Clark has made so many previous statements that make him incompatible with the current DNC that his candidacy is a joke.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 8:17:49 AM ||
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"Democrats historically have been weak in fielding "warriors"
#2
This is the DNCs plan to reinvent the party every election. Next time they will field a Quasi 'Christian' candidate. Probably be one of them gay bishops we have heard so much about or a lesbian Catholic Ex-Nun. Ann Coulter talked about this theory on CSPAN once and it has merit
#3
Interestingly, the last sitting legislator to win the Presidency was a Senator from Leftachussets - name was Kennedy - same initials as JFKerry! So, a guy like Clark has a big advantage in probability considering that the last "General" to run (not counting that fluky RADM for Perot)was Ike and look what happened to him. God forbid it repeats itself.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
01/26/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#4
Stockdale was the only good thing about Perot. Here is a except from his bio about his will as a POW: "...sensing the start of another purge, and aware that his earlier efforts at self disfiguration to dissuade his captors from exploiting him for propaganda purposes had resulted in cruel and agonizing punishment, Rear Adm. Stockdale resolved to make himself a symbol of resistance regardless of personaI sacrifice.
He deliberately inflicted a near-mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese..."
The man is a legend at USNA. During GW I, a downed captured pilot that was a USNA grad tenderized his own face against a cement cell wall in emulation of Stockdale's defiance technique. I couldn't believe that Sadaam still broadcast pictures of the pilot's face. Eventhough I was pretty sure the guy had done it to himself, I almost smashed my television set. I was that mad.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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#5
Well that's pretty good SH... but the competition in Gitmo has been known to abuse themselves in front of female guards. How's that for gutsy?
#6
Shipman, that type of behavior could get a POW a superstud status once the video is released on the internet. Actually, we could e-mail the video to Sistani and ask him for a ruling.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 21:44 Comments ||
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Syria welcomed on Sunday Turkeyâs initiative to mediate for peace with Israel but said any talks should build on previous negotiations, a condition the Jewish state has rejected.
So I guess the mediation's over, huh?
Israel also accepted Turkeyâs offer, but Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Jonathan Peled said: âThere is still a lot to be desired before we can say we are entering negotiations.â Reaction to Turkeyâs gesture came as Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, said that Saudi Arabia had renewed its initiative calling for a comprehensive peace between Israel and the Arab world.
And everybody seems to take that seriously...
Syrian Information Minister Ahmed al-Hassan told reporters he wished Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan success in his plans to play a role in the peace process. He said Syria hoped Erdogan would convince âIsrael to give up its stubbornness and lack of commitment to (UN) Security Council resolutionsâ. On Saturday, Erdogan said Ankara would start an initiative to mediate between the two foes, saying Syrian President Bashar Assad and the Israeli government had responded positively to Turkeyâs offer. Israel, technically at war with Syria, has said any new talks should start from scratch. But Hassan said: âWe have and we still do reiterate that the negotiations should be resumed from the point they stopped at.â
So much for that idea...
Israel has said it will not accept any conditions for the revival of US-sponsored talks that collapsed in 2000 over the future of the strategic Golan Heights, captured by Israel in a 1967 war. The resumption of talks from the point reached in 2000 would effectively force Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to agree, even before sitting down at the negotiating table, to pullout from almost all of the Golan Heights.
Which'd be stupid on his part, and he's not stupid.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 03:00 ||
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President Emile Lahoud said on Sunday that the German-mediated prisoner swap which was announced on the weekend was âclear recognitionâ by Israel of Hizbullah as a legitimate power. The prisoner swap, which came after three years of intensive negotiations between Hizbullah and Israel with the help of German mediation will involve the exchange of more than 400 Lebanese and Arab prisoners for three Israeli soldiers â presumed dead â as well as Elhanan Tannenbaum who is presumed known to be alive. All four Israelis were kidnapped captured in 2000. âThe liberation of prisoners and detainees via this method of negotiation is a clear recognition on the part of Israel that the resistance is legitimate and national and is not a foreign terrorist movement as Israel claims,â said Lahoud, in a statement, âotherwise it would not have negotiated via a friendly nation and with the knowledge of Lebanese authorities.â
There's still time to call the damned thing off...
Lahoud also said Lebanese and Arabs should consider the swap as âproof that Israel has no immunity when it violates international laws.â The president also considered Israelâs occupation of Arab land and its torture of Palestinians as âonly temporary.â Prime Minister Rafik Hariri expressed his joy at the success of the negotiations and said, âthis agreement concludes a bitter chapter for the detainees and their families.â He also congratulated the Lebanese resistance on its achievements at the Lebanese and Arab levels. Beirut MP Nasser Qandil asked âwhat will the American ambassador Vincent Battle say? He told us just a day before that Hizbullah was a foreign terrorist organization.â Also, both former prime ministers of the country, Rashid Solh and Salim Hoss, praised Hizbullahâs achievement and said the event was a great day for the Palestinian cause, the Lebanese people and the Arab world.
Yep. A definite source of Arab pride.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:52 ||
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Yeah, recognize that they need to be liquidated to the last man - starting with the 400+ the Hizbis want back.
#4
Spot, would not be surprised if more than a few had "turned" during their time. The balance have been outside the Hiz political loop for a period of time and may not reassimilate quickly. Apparently we have plans to keep them all active in the Bekka Valley.
Posted by: john ||
01/26/2004 10:33 Comments ||
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#5
It's nice that Lahoude and the rest of the Lebanese have sold their country out to Iran-backed Hezbollah and Syrian troops like cheap french whores. We should listen to them when they have the balls to take their sovereignty back
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 21:06 Comments ||
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Oh, they recognize them. They're right there in the crosshairs...
The Sudanese government and the southern rebels in Sudan have agreed over the situation of two of the three margined areas in the center of Sudan. The Kenyan peace mediator, Lazaraos Simbayo, said that the two sides delegations who continue their meetings in Nivasha resort since the signing the wealth - sharing agreement by the end of 2003, have agreed on defining the fate of Jibal al-Nuba and the Blue Nile, but so far have not signed the agreement because they are still discussing the fate of the third margined area — Eibi. The spokesman for the southern rebels, Yasser Araman, explained that the two sides agreed for the two areas to enjoy self rule and to form a people's consultation commission. The movement demands full control on Jibal al-Nuba and the Blue Nile area and Eibi, despite the fact that geographically speaking, it is not part of the south where the movement is stationed.
Another inch closer to an agreement...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 02:13 ||
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Via JihadWatch
Militants from some 40 countries across the globe are trekking to Teheran for a 10-day "revolutionary jamboree" in which "a new strategy to confront the American Great Satan" will be hammered out. The event is scheduled to start on February 1 to mark the 25th anniversary of the return to Iran from exile of the late Ayatollah Ruhallah Khomeini. It is not clear how many foreign militants will attend, but the official media promise a massive turnout to underline the Islamic Republicâs position as the "throbbing heart of world resistance to American arrogance."
The guest list reads like a whoâs who of global terrorism. In fact, most of the organizations attending the event, labeled "Ten-Days of Dawn," are branded by the United States and some European Union members as terrorist outfits. These include 17 branches of the Hizbullah, a worldwide militant Shiâite movement created by Teheran in 1983.
I thought they only shared names. This makes it look like they're all connected. Silly me.
Today, Teheran is a magnet for militant groups from many different national and ideological backgrounds. The Islamic Republicâs hospitality cuts across even religious divides. Thus militant Sunni organizations, including two linked to al-Qaida - Ansar al-Islam and Hizb e Islami - enjoy Iranian hospitality. They are joined by Latin American guerrilla outfits, clandestine Irish organizations, Basque and Corsican separatists, and a variety of leftist groups from Trotskyites to Guevarists. Teheran today is also the only capital where all the Palestinian militant movements have offices and, in some cases, training and financial facilities. Iranian officials claim that the presence of these terror organizations in Iran is limited to "cultural and information activities."
Just like they are in Syria, in fact...
The militantsâ offices are known as daftar ertebat, which means "contact bureau," while the training offered by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards is presented as "courses in self-defense." Many in Teheran believe that unless the Iranian regime modifies aspects of its behavior, notably in its relations with terrorist organizations, it might find itself in military conflict with the US.
I think that's the general idea.
Until at least last December, one idea was to either cancel the event or curtail it to a one-day prayer session in Khomeiniâs mausoleum in Teheran. That idea was vetoed by the "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenei, who believes that any show of weakness by the regime could encourage its numerous opponents inside and outside the country. Thus Khamenei plans to use the global jamboree to show that Iran is still a revolutionary force and that he alone, and not the ineffective President Muhammad Khatami, calls the shots in Teheran.
I think everybody realizes that, anyway. But I guess Fearless Leader's ego needs stroked...
Khamenei also hopes that the next elections, to be held 10 days after the revolutionary jamboree ends, will produce a new parliamentary majority that shares his strategy. His game plan is to unify the regime by cutting the so-called "reformists" down to size and adopting a wait-and-see tactic until after the American presidential election.
Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
The militants who are going to Teheran this week are likely to be told that they must lie as low as possible for the next few months without abandoning any of their radical goals. The Teheran gathering is also expected to deepen the recent informal alliances made between Islamist militant groups and a variety of communist, anarchist and environmentalist militant groups against the "American common enemy." It is against that background that the question "What to do with Iran?" must be debated. Today, Iran is ready to offer all the behavioral changes required of it by Washington and the EU. But it cannot change its nature. And there is no guarantee that this particular beast will not bite again - and hard - as soon as it feels that it is no longer threatened. A scorpion does not sting because it is naughty; that is dictated by its nature.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
01/26/2004 1:46:48 AM ||
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Three words. Target Rich Environment.
Posted by: Val ||
01/26/2004 1:48 Comments ||
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#2
My thoughts exactly.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/26/2004 2:37 Comments ||
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#3
The Teheran gathering is also expected to deepen the recent informal alliances made between Islamist militant groups and a variety of communist, anarchist and environmentalist militant groups.... Environmentalists? HMMMmmm. I wonder if Al Gore knows that some of his constituents are rubbing elbows with these other groups whose common goal is anti-American?
#8
The Teheran gathering is also expected to deepen the recent informal alliances made between Islamist militant groups and a variety of communist, anarchist and environmentalist militant groups against the "American common enemy."
I got told by a leftwinger/university professor there is no link between Islamic terrorism and communists today. I guess we can chuck that theory out the window.
Both have the same goals: the destruction of America, since the USA is the only force in the world today that offers a decent alternative to the crappy life leftists have to offer.
US bombers would be sweet, but IAF raids would be even better. Heck, an IDF commando raid, complete with films would be the perfect corker to the presidential election of 2004. Bush wins the White House for a second term, and Israel reduces the world's terrorist supply.
#11
Even if we can't (or won't) bomb this meeting, we should have a bunch of KH-11s trained on Tehran and some CIA/SF types inside and outside taking pictures. Also, we should have a patriotic infiltrator taking detailed notes, making contacts and getting names.
Posted by: Tibor ||
01/26/2004 10:17 Comments ||
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...Actually, if you wnat to really mess with their little turbans, deliberately crash a Predator with a couple of dummy Hellfires on it just outside of town, then admit it at a news conference with the statement that the drone crashed because the 'tracking signal' from inside the meeting suddenly stopped.
Man, they won't know WHO to shoot first.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
01/26/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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You're forgetting mojo, the Earthquake Generator is mounted on the space shuttle. Unless, of course, they managed to transfer it to the Space Station before the "accident".
Posted by: Steve ||
01/26/2004 12:03 Comments ||
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#17
Mr. Kozlowski:
You, sir, have a devious and diabolical mind. I love that idea.
Posted by: Mike ||
01/26/2004 12:20 Comments ||
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#18
The Teheran gathering is also expected to deepen the recent informal alliances made between Islamist militant groups and a variety of communist, anarchist and environmentalist militant groups against the "American common enemy."
Do the democrats really have enough time for this type of thing during an election year?
#22
Mr. Kozlowski - such a cunning plan, I'm sure it must be wearing a tail (Black Adder)!.
Oh and NGL, it seems a D5 has typically 8 warheads, roughly 350 kT each (Hiroshima was about 20 kT) and an Ohio class submarine has 24 missiles (192 warheads). The CEP seems to be about 122m.
This has been an "Armageddon TV" public service announcement.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/26/2004 13:58 Comments ||
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#23
Don't you just know that convention registration is more than the usual hassle, what with each valid ticket holder required to show 4 different passports from 3 continents, 2 currencys and a jar of mustache wax.
#25
Boy, this target rich environment is salavation city! Hey, if we can't take them out, we at least ought to have someone put an H2S gas generator in the intake ductwork, just to let them know that we are thinking about them.
Countries from the Horn of Africa at a UN-sponsored meeting have pledged to fight terrorism and transnational organised crime which, they said, posed a threat to the region. They made the pledge at a workshop on "International Cooperation on Counter-Terrorism and the Fight against Transnational Organized Crime," in Khartoum, Sudan which ended on January 19. Experts from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, Somalia, Sudan and Uganda - members of the Inter-governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) and observers from Algeria and Egypt joined the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) to help IGAD members with the ratification and implementation of a dozen international legal instruments against terrorism. The "Khartoum Declaration" also called on UNODC and the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (UNHCHR) to develop joint technical assistance programmes on counter-terrorism while fully respecting human rights. It encouraged the IGAD Member States to use the assistance of the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL) to ensure an adequate exchange of information in the area of counter-terrorism and transnational organized crime.
Sounds absolutely ducky...
However, the dictatorship of Sudan, together with Ethiopia and Yemen have already formed a secret alliance between their security forces aimed primarily at the small African state of Eritrea with which all three states have a history of problems. Informed sources indicate that the alliance had decided to use the UN sponsored meeting as a venue to give further cover to their ultimate objectives, which is to suppress the pro-democracy rebellions in the area.
... the blame for which they've been trying to hang on Eritrea. Couldn't be them, of course. Certainly not Sudan...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:43 ||
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Let's please go slow on thaining the Ethiopian troops. I'm not convinced that they are the good guys.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:59 Comments ||
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Syria on Sunday denied claims that it received weapons of mass destruction from Iraq shortly before the United States and its allies invaded. "No! No! Certainly not!"
An article in Londonâs Sunday Telegraph quoted David Kay, the outgoing leader of a U.S. weapons search team in Iraq, as saying that part of Iraqâs secret weapons program had been hidden in Syria. But in an interview aired later Sunday on National Public Radio, Kay said it is difficult to determine whether shipments to Syria included weapons, in part because Syria has refused to cooperate in this part of the weapons investigation. In brief comments to reporters, Syrian Information Minister Ahmad Hassan called the Telegraph report "baseless and misleading." "Lies! All lies!"
The Syrian government has repeatedly denied that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were sent to Syria to prevent their discovery by U.N. inspectors or U.S. troops. "Whatâs the matter, donât you trust us?"
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 1:37:53 AM ||
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Syria on Sunday denied claims that it received weapons of mass destruction from Iraq shortly before the United States and its allies invaded
Well, that's becuase they received WMD's months before the war. You know, when France and Germany were doing al they could to help Sammy.
Walid Jumblatt, chairman of the (Druze) Socialist Progressive Party and member of the Lebanese parliament, praised the January 14, 2004 suicide bombing by a Palestinian woman in Gaza. The following are excerpts from his statements:
"Yesterday, the Palestinian mother Reem Al-Riyashi sacrificed herself, and by so doing joined the columns of the brave Jihad warriors and broke the atrocious and troublesome Arab silence, the helplessness, and the retreat that precede failure and disintegration. She offered hope in a sea of complacency, indecisiveness, and fear. It is a new Intifada. It is the Intifada of the revolutionary Palestinian woman and of the land, opposing the 'Jewification' [of Palestine], the Jewish reality, and the Arab regimes. Did it come out of despair?
"No, and again no. It is an act of belief and it is the correct path, because the fall of one Jew, whether soldier or civilian, is a great accomplishment in times of decline, subservience, and submissiveness, as a way to undermine the plan to 'Jewify' all of Palestine.
"I say 'Jew' and I apologize to the Lebanese intellectuals, or at least some of them, who welcomed the Geneva initiative, applauded it, and considered it an historical solution to the Middle East conflict. They play word games [and differentiate] between Jew and Israeli, between Right and Left, and between doves and hawks... Reem Al-Riyashi is the last roadblock. What is it that she and other [women] are seeking or demanding? A few weapons, explosives, or anti-tank missiles, [and to be able to pass] through Jordan, Rafiah, Lebanon, Syria, or any other possible doorway in order to prevent the 'Jewification' plan, or at least to delay it, while the [weapon] depots of the Arab armies are full to the brimâŠ"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:30 ||
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Isn't it time for Walid to have an accident? He always was kinda clumsy in a political way.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/26/2004 1:35 Comments ||
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Yesterday, the Palestinian mother Reem Al-Riyashi sacrificed herself
Walid, I think it's now time to sacrifice yourself.
Be a Man, get up from your TV couch, strap on a boomer belt and go splatter your filthy bones on the lebanese security fence.
We will also accept any of your close relatives (just in order to clean the genetic pool), since we know that you are the kind of scum adept at sending others to die while staying behind in your safe (hopefully not for long) couch.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
01/26/2004 2:23 Comments ||
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#3
Walid was all responsible for large scale massacres of christians in the Lebanese civil war.
And in the great muslim tradition of family honor. He apparently conspired with the Syrians to murder his father and after his father's assasination aligned the Druze with the Syrians.
#4
Gee Wally...(said the Beaver)
All these female splodydopes makes me wonder - I thought the "vagina wymyn" claim that violence is all due to men. There can't be violent wymyn can there? Ah yes, there were brainwashed, that's the ticket!
#5
Reem Al-Riyashi is the last roadblock. What is it that she and other [women] are seeking or demanding? A few weapons, explosives, or anti-tank missiles, [and to be able to pass] through Jordan, Rafiah, Lebanon, Syria, or any other possible doorway in order to prevent the 'Jewification' plan, or at least to delay it, while the [weapon] depots of the Arab armies are full to the brimâ¦"
"...with obsolete, second-hand Soviet trash that nobody here knows how to make. But we can pull a trigger!"
A top official of the Palestinian militant group Hamas says it could declare a 10-year truce with Israel if the Jewish state withdrew from territory occupied since 1967.
Oboy. Another hudna.
Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi says Hamas has come to the conclusion that it is "difficult to liberate all our land at this stage, so we accept a phased liberation".
"We could kill them all later."
"We accept a state in the West Bank, including Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip," he said in a telephone interview with Reuters from the Gaza Strip. We propose a 10-year truce in return for [Israeli] withdrawal and the establishment of a state."
I guess Qurei really has been doing some talking. And the helicopters helped.
His comments appeared to strengthen signs of a political shift from Hamas, which is sworn to destroy Israel but appears to be moving closer to the aims of Yasser Arafat'sPalestinian Authority.
Which is... ummm... sworn to destroy Israel.
Israel dismisses any talk of Hamas moderation as a smokescreen for military preparations by a group at the forefront of suicide bombings. Mr Rantissi said any such new proposal would not mean that Hamas recognised Israel or spell the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Hamas has led a suicide bombing campaign that has killed hundreds of Israelis during more than three years of violence. It has rejected peace talks and demanded that a Palestinian state be formed on all the land that was Palestine under the British mandate preceding the creation of Israel more than five decades ago. Mr Rantissi said the truce could last 10 years, though "not more than 10 years".
"And probably not more than a few weeks. At most."
Israel dismisses any hint that Hamas might be softening its stance, particularly after a suicide bombing killed four Israelis at a border crossing on January 14. Israeli officials also say it would be impossible to return to pre-1967 borders, emphasising that the Palestinians could not expect East Jerusalem, some major Jewish settlements or other land deemed vital for security. Mr Rantissi said discussion within Hamas on accepting a state in just the West Bank and Gaza was not new but that "the movement has taken a decision on this". He said he did not expect Israel to respond favourably to the new suggestion, "when it has rejected the Palestinian Authority's offer for less land than what we are proposing".
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:25 ||
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Hamas is coming to realize that they have already missed the train !
The Security fence is now an established reality.
It is the only thing that is actually effective in stopping terrorist boomers (not that they ever stopped trying). An interesting side effect of the security bonus is that the Hamas and the Fatah under the orchestration of the Arafish Mafia have given Sharon the best pretext for establishing political facts in the field.
Hamas is now on the verge of being recognized by the palestinian in the street for what it is, a bloody murderous organization that is leading the palestinians from one disaster to another.
They are now frantically looking for a way to look more moderate than they really are in order to take the pressure off themselves so that their own people do not blame them for being the loosers they are.
They fool nobody.
Anyway,even though they seem quite popular in Sweden right now (especially in artistic circles of the swedish extreme left) for at least some of the guys at the Hamas top, the end may be nearer than they think.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
01/26/2004 1:54 Comments ||
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...He said he did not expect Israel to respond favourably to the new suggestion, "when it has rejected the Palestinian Authority's offer for less land than what we are proposing".
Just who was it that rejected an offer of - I think - 97% of everything that they were asking for back at the last Camp David talks?
Mr Rantissi said the truce could last 10 years, though "not more than 10 years".
translation: "The Israelis only believed that we'd uphold our end of Oslo farce for 7 years before they started to get wise. We think that this time, with some more pressure from the EU and the UN, we can stretch it to ten. Besides, we are almost out of willing idiots martyrs, and as cute as those kindergarden graduation photos look (you know, the ones with the boys taking aim with toy rifles, or with fake dynamite strapped around their waists), it will take ten more years to raise a new crop of idiots martyrs and mindless, hate-filled zombies jihadis."
#5
I take the "10 years" term to indicate that they are running out of splodeydopes and need to let the next generation grow big enough to carry a bomb.
#6
In some cases I agree with a phased, but with respect to a kabar, the blood-grooves should allow for rapid withdrawal out of the chest of any Hamas militant.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/26/2004 13:57 Comments ||
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#7
Hamas is now on the verge of being recognized by the palestinian in the street for what it is, a bloody murderous organization that is leading the palestinians from one disaster to another.
That's a small step, but the Average Hassan needs to realize that the big fish to fry is Arafart himself. Hamas and its competing groups are only convenient scapegoats.
#8
I wish Arafish would hurry up and die. I'm looking forward to the paleo civil war. It should have a high entertainment value, especially with the euro left screaming for military intervention.
Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide met the Bahamas' prime minister Sunday and agreed to several proposals by Caribbean leaders for easing the country's prolonged political crisis. Bahamian Prime Minister Perry Christie led a small delegation from the 15-member Caribbean Community on a one-day visit in an effort to break an impasse that has plunged the country into increasing turmoil.
Which is pretty much Haiti's normal state of affairs...
Aristide said he "shared" the major points put forward by Christie, including the need to build a "consensus" government, set up an electoral council, schedule legislative elections soon and disarm politically affiliated gangs.
... he said, piously.
"I'm looking forward to the implementation of the major steps" in the sweet by and by near future, Christie said after more than two hours of talks. Aristide said he would support forming a new governing council including members of his party, the opposition and civil society leaders. But opposition leaders have refused to participate in new elections under Aristide or to negotiate with him. They have called for protests, and in the past four months at least 47 people have been killed during demonstrations. Sunday's meeting came after Christie and other Caribbean leaders hosted separate talks with the opposition in the Bahamas last week. "Our concern is to ensure opposing factions are able to recognize that, in Haiti's best interests, we must avoid civil strife," Christie said at a news conference with Aristide after their meeting.
It's time to dump Jean-Bertrand and move on to whoever's next in Haiti's tiresome line of dictators...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:12 ||
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The more things change, the more they stay the same...
#4
I like the Disney idea. Haiti is now "Human Degradationland"! Ride the Leaky Boat of the Carribean! The Hall of Dictators! The Tower of the Ton Ton Macoute! Wracked with guilt liberals would flock to it. It'd do wonders for their economy.
Iran's hard-line Guardian Council vetoed a bill on Sunday that would have curbed its power, throwing elections into doubt in a historic confrontation between reformers and conservatives. The Guardian Council rejected a bill reinstating thousands of candidates that it disqualified earlier. The veto is likely to provoke a boycott of the Feb. 20 legislative elections by reformers. The bill that parliament passed earlier Sunday sought to overturn the disqualifications. Reformists have condemned the disqualifications as an attempt by the hard-liners to skew the elections in their favor. "We've been informed that the Guardian Council has vetoed the legislation on the grounds that it contradicted the constitution and Sharia (Islamic) law," Mohsen Mirdamadi told The Associated Press. Mirdamadi heads the National Security and Foreign Policy Committee of the parliament and is one of the lawmakers disqualified from running again.
Somehow, we knew that was going to happen, didn't we?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/26/2004 01:06 ||
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I hope GWB reads this post, because this is exactly what's in store for Iraq if the new gov't there is turned over to the mullahs.
#2
If the Iranians don't revolt now, they never will.
Posted by: Tom ||
01/26/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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Look, after what happened in Hungary in 1956, Cezchoslovakia in 1968 and in Iraq in 1991, I suspect that the administration would rather not see an uprising in Iran. We're simply not ready yet to go in and liberate the place. That is why there is such a conspicous(sp?) lack of support for the students.
R-dog, I suspect the administration is painfully aware of the possibility. Remember though that the current bunch in the whitehouse tends to play things close to the chest. And they're good at political manuvering. I'm not too worried.
The German government has promised to free two Lebanese and an Iranian currently serving life sentences in Germany, and also to try to persuade France and Switzerland to release Lebanese prisoners they hold, in exchange for the return of missing Israeli navigator Ron Arad or his body.
That's another advantage to the death penalty: once their necks've been stretched, nobody's going to take hostages to get them unstretched...
The German pledge is included in the prisoner exchange deal reached by Israel and Hezbollah through German mediation. The deal comprises two stages. In the first stage, to take place on Thursday, Israel will release 435 Arab prisoners - 400 Palestinians, 23 Lebanese and 12 nationals of other countries - and one German, in exchange for the return of businessman Elhanan Tennenbaum and the bodies of three slain soldiers - Benny Avraham, Adi Avitan and Omar Suwad. The following day, Israel will also hand over the bodies of 59 Lebanese buried in Israel, as well as any information it has on 24 Lebanese who have been missing since 1982 and maps of mines laid by Israel in Lebanese territory. The second stage deals with the attempt to find information about Arad and bring him back to Israel. A joint German-Hezbollah committee will be set up to conduct the search for information, with indirect help from "other sources" - an apparent reference to Iran.
Which is said to be where he went...
If solid information is obtained - meaning DNA samples to confirm his identity and proof of whether he is alive or dead -Israel will release Samir Kuntar, the only Lebanese prisoner who is not being freed this week, and also the only one convicted of murdering civilians in Israel rather than soldiers in Lebanon.
This is a damned dirty deal. And as soon as it's done, Hezb is going to kidnap somebody else...
However, the agreement is deliberately vague on this point, saying in another place that Kuntar will be released once the discussion of his case ends, and that the parties hope this will be in two to three months. If Arad is located, negotiations will begin over his return to Israel. Any deal would include the release of the three prisoners held in Germany, all of whom were involved in the murder of an Iranian dissident in a Berlin restaurant in 1992. Israel will also have to release additional Arab prisoners, mainly Palestinians.
Posted by: TS ||
01/26/2004 12:50:36 AM ||
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Am I the only reader who thinks that trading hundreds of fully-functional jihadi gunnies for a live hostage and three dead ones makes no sense?
It's a nice gesture that the Israelis want to get their soldier's bodies back, but doing so is not worth putting these murderous jihadis back into circulation.
Now, giving them the bodies of a couple hundred DEAD jihadis in return for the dead troops might be a better deal.
#5
A Middle-Eastern dictatorship could simply "bargain" to execute prisoners until the hostage is released. Lacking that capacity, the best overall alternative is not negotiating. But the West hasn't been abused enough yet to have either kind of gutsy response.
Posted by: Tom ||
01/26/2004 8:46 Comments ||
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#6
5 - unless they've managed to turn some of these into spies
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/26/2004 12:15 Comments ||
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#7
Or you float the rumor that half of 'em are spies and watch them get shot as 'collaborators'; the IDF saves on bullets as an added bonus!
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
