Finally, someone in Arabia says what must be said.
WEDNESDAY was yet another deadly day in Iraq. Scores of innocent lives lost in mindless violence that has become a daily feature in the country. But the people of Iraq and the world will not forget Wednesday for a long time to come.
Thirty-two children, too young to understand the terrible cycle of violence that has plagued their country for the past several months, died without knowing what hit them. Many of them still held on to the chocolate bars distributed by American soldiers as part of their mission to win Iraqi "hearts and minds."
What crime had these innocent souls committed? How could anyone in their right senses take the lives of those young smiling kids? What cause can justify the killing of children? This is no insurgency. This is pure murder at a massive scale. Insurgency or resistance seeks to hit government or pro-government targets as had been the case in Vietnam, Afghanistan and elsewhere. It distinguishes between those on its side and the opposite side.
What is going on in Iraq defies all definition and categorisation. Men, women and children â anyone and everyone can be targeted at anytime. No one is safe. The so-called insurgents make no distinction between people on their side or those on the other side. By their mindless acts of terror, the insurgents have lost whatever sympathy they may have had in Iraq and elsewhere in Muslim world. Murder is not the best way to win hearts and minds.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/16/2005 00:00 ||
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I am not supporting a backlash against Muslims but if some people are dead set to carry it my appeal is that they do not take out their rage against Muslims at random as many of them are law abiding citizens. Let them instead target the centres run by clerics who preach lies and hatred and incite vulnerable and illiterate youths to join terrorist activities.
That'd be a pretty good idea, though it's not the legitimate province of roving bands of fascisti to "take out their rage" on their fellow citizens.
The ultimate aim of terrorism is to bring about that very thing, in the expectation of initiating a civil war, which will presumably be won by the terrs' side. You can't have a civil war if everyone's on the same side, so terrorism attempts to divide society into the oppressed "us" and the oppressing "them."
By not living up to its responsibilities of cracking down on the instigators, the lily-handed set in government actually makes that division more likely. Far better for the government, whether in Britain or in the U.S. to take stern steps against the holy men, the controllers, the money men, and the recruiters. And better for the honest but Muslim citizen to assist in that project, as part of the inclusive "us."
#1
No, the ultimate aim of terrorism is to bring about that very thing, in the expectation of initiating a civil war, which will presumably be won by the terrs' side.
No the idea of terrorism is to instill fear into a populace strong enough so any demands from terrorist would seem reasonable.
And there has been a civil war in the world begun by Islamists in November 1979. It is only in the last few years that the west has begin to take the threat seriously.
Roving bands of kids in England cracking a few skulls, likely innocent folks. BFD. Beats the living sh*t out of being murdered while just conducting your own life.
And I can tell you for a definitive fact the whether or not skinheads are attacking muslims wouldn't have stopped last week's attack and they likely won't stop the next one.
#2
Hello, OM2128, welcome to Rantburg. Your discourse was both civil and well-reasoned, although none of the lads carrying the bombs on the Tube seemed to be illiterate or even particularly vulnerable. I believe it was a conscious and informed decision each of them took to become mass murderers. I also believe they were goaded into that decision by their religious advisers, not by problems with skinheads or other townie punks.
#3
I am a citizen of UK and also hold citizenship of Pakistan.The past few days have made be proud of Britain. The way United Kingdom has handled what is a difficult time has made a deep impression on me - I would fight for this country anytime anyday. Rule Britiania!!!
And yes we have to come hard on the Mullahs in UK. As a moslem I never attend mosques as 99% of them are in control of extremists of one shade or another.I am sick of political correctness coming in way of what really goes on - I should know as I belong to the 'moslem community' and know what goes on.
Maybe next time I will give people a tour of what goes on!!!
#4
AtanPK, welcome to you as well. Good on you for your courage in speaking your mind...a few (or several million) more with you and we'll have this thing licked.
#5
There are a couple of newcomers here and this is not an attack on them, but terrorism doesn't require a 'logic' (or any logic will do) and it is already working. The purpose of terrorism is to extract concessions. I have seen dozens of quotes from muslims that can be summarized as 'Give us what we want and this will go away'. And surprise, surprise politicians are falling over themselves to give the muslims what they want. Resulting in more terrorism becuase it clearly works at least in Europe.
#6
phil_b is right. The purpose of terrorism is to win without war (or at least without us warring against them). Muslim terrorists war against us while we sit back and just take it because the specific attackers are dead or nowhere to be found. But Muslim terrorism doesn't exist in a vacuum. It requires propagandists, recruiters, funders, fundraisers, quartermasters and circles of acquaintances and family members to provide aid and comfort to the individual attackers. The question here is whether we treat this as a law enforcement problem or as a war.
If this is a law enforcement problem, we go after the individual attackers and the people with a specific mechanical connection to the attacks, but leave the propagandists and the circle of acquaintances alone. If it is a war, we go after everyone in the group, much as the Allies burned Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, Nagasaki and Hiroshima to the ground during WWII. Note that we haven't reached the latter point yet, because our casualties are not as high as they were during WWII, where tens of thousands of Allied troops and even more Allied civilians were getting killed monthly.
#7
I agree that the way in which the state has allowed fondumentalists to preach is shocking. To see this one can go to Hide Park corner on a Sunday and see clerics openly inciting people to join terrorist groups ands this has been going on for years!
#8
AtanPK, it's good to hear your voice here, and it gives me some hope that this can all be ended without an Armageddon occurring. Read the Belmont Club's "The Three Conjectures" to see another possible outcome of the WoT - I warn you, it's not pretty.
I wonder if you realise how important voices like yours are? If you would truly fight for this country, then you must tell the police and others what is going on in these extremist mosques, and who is preaching death, destruction and hatred.
I totally agree that the PC attitude in this country is dangerous - because it is distorting the truth and every thinking person in the UK knows this. For example, do we really need 'Muslim-friendly' workplaces as the government has suggested? Does this help with integration? Or is it just a cheap trick to capture the Muslim vote? Why has the BBC excised the word 'terrorist' from news reports from 7/7? Many, many people are very fed up of tricks like this, and the events of 9/11 and more recently 7/7 have served to galvanise the feelings in many that enough is enough and the Muslim world is going to have to sort its own house out if it wants to be a part of the 21st Century and not the 7th. We now know from services such as MEMRI what is being said in Mosques in the Middle East - and frankly we don't like what we hear. Voices like yours are therefore extremely important, and you must speak out - and I, like Seafarious, think it is a very courageous thing you are doing.
One last thing, it was 60 years ago last Sunday that the Second World War ended. 57 million people died in that conflict, the huge majority by explosives and bullets - conventional weapons. It was started by Europeans, just two generations away from the Europeans of today. It would be a major mistake for anyone to think that Europeans are not capable of more fits of collective madness - and this time there are at least two European nations that are armed with Nuclear weapons.
Time, as they say, is running out...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/16/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#9
AtanPK, Welcome. I look forward to your future comments.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
07/16/2005 13:29 Comments ||
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#10
With respect, it doesn't matter if you agree with the backlash and it will do no good to appeal to would-be vigilantes. People take the law into their own hands when they lose faith in the government's ability to do the job. Once that happens, all bets are off.
Markos Moulitsas[ Zuniga, influential Democratic Party operative and website proprietor, also known as "Kos"]:
Margaret Cho isn't just a comedienne, and a damn funny one, but she's also an activist -- for progressive politics, for equality under the law for all Americans....I admire Margaret, more than anything, for her unwillingness to step down. To keep fighting even despite all efforts by the Right to shut her down. To use humor to point out the absurdities of the Right Wing and their attempts to impose their "morality" on the rest of the country.
Margaret Cho[, plus-sized Korean-American "entertainer" and "activist," also (should be) known as "the Hangul Hippopotamus"]:
[My new dog] Gudrun is named after the infamous Gudrun Ensslin who was the female leader of the Baader-Meinhof Gang, an art terrorist group from the 70s. Terrorism was different then. It had a chicness to it, which made it seem less like a dangerous menace and more like food fashion.
To quote Kathy Shaidle, "Hey, at least she didn't name it 'Dinner.'"
Gudrun Ensslin. The Red Army Faction, AKA the Baader-Meinhof Gang. Slaughterers of scores. Chic art figures of the American left's pop cultural icons -- who are in turn themselves admired by the animating personalities of the modern Democratic Party.
A minor point, naming one's dog after a terrorist, and lauding those who do? Yes. But a helpful reminder nonetheless of a phrase worth remembering: they're not antiwar -- just on the other side.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/16/2005 08:41 ||
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#2
'To keep fighting even despite all efforts by the Right to shut her down.' Oh contraire the right supports and encourages her to say any stupid things she wishes. When she and her other LLL get together at a MoveOn, Code Pink, etc event I want it televised live so that the American public can see them in full ranting splendor. And make Margaret the MC of ALL events or maybe she can trade with Whoopie? I just want one time for assholes like Kos who make such statements to back them up with something. Such as they tried to shut her down by _________. Just fill in the blank once and I would be happy. Claiming that you are being âshut downâ all the while CSPAN shows a different rally each day doesnât square with me.
#3
she's as funny as a dead tourist, killed by comedy terrorists
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/16/2005 11:56 Comments ||
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#4
We luv it when the left speaks. Everytime the left speaks Rush Limbaugh puts their words on the radio. We love free speech 'specially when the left is speaking.
I'm not so sure about that Margaret Cho as a comedienne. That's kinda funny in and of itself.
Maybe if the stupid bitch had seen the destruction, known those injured and killed, felt the bomb her heroine helped set to blow V Corps Headquarters in Frankfurt am Main - as I did - she might not think it's so cool.
But being the leftist twit that she is, she probably would. Hell, in that case she'd probably get two more dogs and name them Andreas [Baader] and Ulrike [Meinhof].
This loon - and others of her ilk - is beyond help. I hope she gets to meet people like her "chic" terrorists - and personally gets a taste of their handiwork.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/16/2005 21:38 Comments ||
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Dallas Morning News Editorial. h/t LGF Call Them What They Are: Those who murder Iraqi civilians are terrorists
09:02 AM CDT on Friday, July 15, 2005
Two words not uncommon to editorial pages are "resolve" and "sacrifice," especially as they relate to war.
Today, this editorial board resolves to sacrifice another word â "insurgent" â on the altar of precise language. No longer will we refer to suicide bombers or anyone else in Iraq who targets and kills children and other innocent civilians as "insurgents."
The notion that these murderers in any way are nobly rising up against a sitting government in a principled fight for freedom has become, on its face, absurd. If they ever held a moral high ground, they sacrificed it weeks ago, when they turned their focus from U.S. troops to Iraqi men, women and now children going about their daily lives.
They drove that point home with chilling clarity Wednesday in a poor Shiite neighborhood. As children crowded around U.S. soldiers handing out candy and toys in a gesture of good will, a bomb-laden SUV rolled up and exploded.
These children were not collateral damage. They were targets.
The SUV driver was no insurgent. He was a terrorist.
People who set off bombs on London trains are not insurgents. We would never think of calling them anything other than what they are â terrorists.
Train bombers in Madrid? Terrorists.
Chechen rebels who take over a Russian school and execute children? Terrorists.
Teenagers who strap bombs to their chests and detonate them in an Israeli cafe? Terrorists.
IRA killers? Basque separatist killers? Hotel bombers in Bali? Terrorists all.
Words have meanings. Whether too timid, sensitive or "open-minded," we've resisted drawing a direct line between homicidal bombers everywhere else in the world and the ones who blow up Iraqi civilians or behead aid workers.
No more. To call them "insurgents" insults every legitimate insurgency in modern history. They are terrorists. Bravo. Lead on.
#1
A very good gesture. I fear that it's too little, too late. The Press has already made an enemy in me. I consider members of the MSM of the same class of human as child molesters and heroin dealers.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
