THE trouble with the West is that we have forgotten that some things are sacred. We find it so difficult to comprehend the reaction of the Muslim world to that ham-fisted Danish cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a terrorist because our churches stand empty, our faith is weak and our God has left the building.
The idea that this is still a Christian country is laughable. We may haul in the local vicar for weddings and funerals, but that's about it. We worship our idols -celebrity and money, the sex lives of the rich and famous - but the Good Book is about as relevant to most of our lives as the ration book.
Christianity is widely mocked. The feeble humour of the Jerry Springer opera whipped up some half-hearted controversy, but nobody really cared beyond a few Bible-bashers considered to be humourless spoilsports.
Once this was a Christian country, back when we were all singing two hymns a day at school and fretting about burning in hell for our sins.
When I was a child, we could all chant the Lord's Prayer by heart. Do the Vicky Pollards of today know the Lord's Prayer? Can't see it, myself. So I feel an instinctive sympathy for Muslims who still hold to the belief that there is such a thing as blasphemy.
The Muslim community say that those puerile Danish cartoons should not have been printed, and they are right. It would not have been censorship or the curtailment of free speech to not print (and reprint) the offending cartoon. It would have been basic human decency. It would have been cultural restraint at a time when tension between the West and the Muslim world is higher than it has been for centuries.
I have read a number of commentators say that they would "defend to the death" the right of some crappy little Danish paper to print their nasty little cartoons.
But if I am going to die for a cause, then it is going to be a better one than the right of some Scandy cartoonist to print offensive rubbish.
If we are going to argue with Muslims, then let it be about something worthwhile.
The attitude of Islam to women. The attitude of Islam to gays. The attitude of Islam to Israel, which is routinely threatened with extermination by everyone from Hamas to the leader of Iran to mad mullahs with spit on their beards in Finsbury Park.
Printing that cartoon was supremely stupid. Muslims have a right to live their lives without seeing their religion vilified in a way that is designed to cause hurt, anger and offence.
What Muslims should never have the right to do is what they did on the streets of London on Friday. Around 500 demonstrators marched from the Regent's Park mosque to the Danish embassy, carrying the most sickening placards I have ever seen in my life.
On the streets of the city where Londoners were murdered and maimed on July 7, the pinhead protesters carried slogans boasting: "Europe, you'll come crawling when mujahideen come roaring" and "Behead those who insult Islam". On the same streets where four terrorists committed mass murder, a placard gloated: "Europe you will pay - fantastic 4 are on their way".
A toddler, 20-month-old Farisa Jihad, was dressed by some moronic adult in a hat that sneered: "I love Al-Qaida".
And they got away with it. Nobody was arrested for these sickening incitements to murder. Nobody was charged for spewing slogans of hate that gloated about the dead and broken bodies of July 7.
And that offends me. That offends me to the core of my being.
Responsible Muslim leaders have already condemned the appalling placards. But it happened. And I can't think of any thing more likely to create real loathing for Muslims. I can't think of anything more likely to make the BNP a real force in British politics.
I can't think of anything more likely to make the average British citizen - whatever his colour - ask: Whose country is it anyway?
MUSLIMS deserve the respect accorded to all our people. They take their religion infinitely more seriously than we do, and we should understand that. And if they want to burn down a few empty Scandinavian embassies in Syria because of crass depictions of the Prophet Mohammed, then personally I couldn't care less.
But when someone starts carrying placards in my city gloating about 9/11 and 7/7, when men with big mouths start promising death and destruction, when you tell us that we will be massacred if we offend you, then our tolerance is pushed to breaking-point. Muslims deserve to have their faith respected.
But if they want a Muslim country, then perhaps they should go and live in one.
When 9/11 happened, the European leftists quietly murmured to each other, "the US deserved it..."
When Hamas and Hezbollah blew up cafe's in Israel, they said they were freedom fighters.
When Iraqi suicide bombers mainly targeted other Iraqi civilians in an attempt to forment an Iraqi civil war, the left said they were patriots comparable to the minutemen...
We have had our cities attacked, large-scale civilian casualties, and sent our military into harms' way in an attempt to deal with the situation.
But finally, the Europeans are figuring out it's serious because the radical Islamicists are threatening cartoonists?
Posted by: Phil ||
02/06/2006 10:38 Comments ||
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#2
The issue isn't the content of the cartoons. It's the reaction to it.
And, frankly, if you're going to threaten violence over a drawing, you aren't fit for civilization.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/06/2006 10:45 Comments ||
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#3
There have always been exceptions to free speech: falsely shouting fire in a theatre; 'fighting words'; blasphemy.
Blasphemy? Yes, for 150 years blasphemy was not protected speech in the USA. There are still blasphemy laws on the books here in Massachusetts, but they haven't been enforced for nearly a century, and the secular West has pushed back the blasphemy boundary to the point where the concept seems almost antique. Almost.
If I go into a mosque and announce that Allah doesn't exist (which I can't prove), surely that's a worse blasphemy than a few mild cartoons, and constitutes 'fighting words' in that location.
We are dealing with people whose concept of blasphemy is vastly different than ours. Pakistan has arrested hundreds for that offense, and executed dozens. To someone brought up in the madrassas, the taunt is clear. These are people whose religiosity exceeds that of Salem, MA at the time of the witch trials.
So the offense is understandable. On the other hand, the response is way out of line according to our standards. This is the real clash of civilizations. The West would like to resolve the situation. If so, pushing the blasphemy hot button isn't the answer.
However, it appears that the Muslims want war with the West. If that's the case, accelerating the situation may be in our best interest, since delaying it may result in nuclear armed Armageddon.
The muslims insult Jews and Christians EVERY FRIGGING DAY on their newspapers and TVs and have no frigging right to tell us what we can say or publish. Period.
And it is time to explain to them how to behave when you are a guest.
And it is time to throw them out of the West. They are here to subvert our Freedom, they are here as part of the world war of ilsam against Freedom.
#5
There's so much wrong here I hardly no where to start:
1) "MUSLIMS deserve the respect accorded to all our people" -- Why? An individual deserves a default level of respect UNTIL HE PROVES UNWORTHY or that respect. The actions and words of Muslims have shown that they are, by and large, unworthy of respect.
2)"It would have been cultural restraint at a time when tension between the West and the Muslim world is higher than it has been for centuries."-- No, it would have been cowardice in the face of an agressive bully.
3) ...let it be about something worthwhile. -- Freedom of speech isn't worthwhile?
4) " Muslims have a right to live their lives without seeing their religion vilified in a way that is designed to cause hurt, anger and offence." -- Since when does ANYONE have a right like this? The Jews and Christians are routinely vilified and mocked. This is just more appeasement oriented cowardice.
#9
...let it be about something worthwhile. -- Freedom of speech isn't worthwhile?
Well, the US has about a hundred thousand soldiers in the field right now who are kind of dependent on the average Moslem-in-the-street in Iraq and Afghanistan
not
thinking that this is a "clash of civilizations" and that we are only concerned with fighting the extremists and not wiping out their entire culture.
Or, putting this another way: the extremists _didn't_ try to limit the publication of the cartoons. They distributed them themselves. With some rather interesting additions, such as the one with a praying Moslem being raped by a dog. And they labeled those additions, which they came up with themselves, as being from Denmark as well. They're distributing these cartoons with _their_ modifications as widely as possible... they're using freedom of speech with mostly the same materials as the free-thinkers in the west are convincing themselves they're so brave for publishing.
As if they're the ones going out on foot patrol in Najaf and Fallujah.
Posted by: Phil ||
02/06/2006 12:35 Comments ||
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#10
And they got away with it. Nobody was arrested for these sickening incitements to murder. Nobody was charged for spewing slogans of hate that gloated about the dead and broken bodies of July 7.
Welcome to PC Europe. MAybe if you stopped pandering to these Islamist wingnuts you might begin to get a handle on just what they intend for you. These cartoons (cartoons, remember ... not atrocities, just cartoons) are the most perfect example of what awaits our world should Islam expand its power base.
More cartoons, please. This horsesh!t needs to be crystal clear.
However, it appears that the Muslims want war with the West. If that's the case, accelerating the situation may be in our best interest, since delaying it may result in nuclear armed Armageddon.
As I said, more cartoons, please. Get these maniacs spun up to top speed right away so that everyone gets a clear picture of their sickness. This one is for all the marbles. The sooner everyone understands this, the better.
#13
The attitude of Islam to women. The attitude of Islam to gays. The attitude of Islam to Israel, which is routinely threatened with extermination by everyone from Hamas to the leader of Iran to mad mullahs with spit on their beards in Finsbury Park.
By Victor Davis Hanson Over the last four years Americans have played a sort of parlor game wondering whenor ifthe Europeans might awake to the danger of Islamic fascism and choose a more muscular role in the war on terrorism. But after the acrimony over the invasion of Iraq, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo, pessimists scoffed that the Atlantic alliance was essentially over.
I'm one of the pessimists. NATO is an idea whose time has gone. The Euros aren't allies, they're acquaintances...
Only the postmortem was in dispute: did the bad chemistry between the Texan George Bush and the Green European leadership who came of age in the street theater of 1968 explain the falling out? Or was the return of the old anti-Americanism natural after the end of the Cold Waronce American forces were no longer needed for the security of Europe? Or again, was Europes third way a realistic consideration of its own unassimilated and growing Muslim population, at a time of creeping pacifism, and radically scaled down defense budgets after the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Yes, to all. Bush was impatient with European weaselry. The continent was cresting on a trend of anti-Americanism that had been growing since the '60s, nursed along by the Soviet Union, and the Euros are now fat and prosperous, don't want to lose what they have, and don't have the strength to defend it. All they can hope for is mercy.
Yet suddenly in 2006, the Europeans seem to have collectively resuscitated.
I usually agree with Hanson, but in this case he's thinking wishfully. The European attention span is no longer long enough to allow them to actually do anything.
The Madrid bombings, the murder of Theo van Gogh, the London subway attacks, and the French rioting in October and November seem to have prompted at least some Europeans at last to question their once hallowed sense of multiculturalism in which Muslim minorities were not asked to assimilate at home and Islamic terrorists abroad were seen as mere militants or extremists rather than enemies bent on destroying the West.
Maybe so, but not enough of them. Spain's reaction to the Madrid bombings was to surrender, vote out the side with cojones and vote in the mushmeisters. Van Gogh was slaughtered like a sheep in broad daylight. The Dutchies were up in arms for a few months, then relapsed into their coma. The Brits were up in arms after the London subway attacks, then lost interest. Omar Bakri Muhammad was the only major Islamist who left the country, and that was only because he was too cowardly to wait out the heat, which was off in a couple weeks. Nobody's been deported, and immigration hasn't been curtailed. The French innalecks fell upon Sarkozy for calling the street lice "scum." Nothing has really happened; a few people have woken up, but not nearly enough to make a difference.
On January 19, Jacques Chirac warned that his military would use its nuclear forces to target states that sponsored terrorism against FranceEl Cid braggadocio that made George Bushs past Wild West lingo like smoke em out and dead or alive seem Pollyannaish by comparison.
But nobody, starting with Chirac, imagines he'd actually follow through on his threat, short of Paris being incinerated. So it'll probably be goodbye, Lille, and all the evil ones will get will be a strong note, and maybe the French ambassador withdrawn for consultations.
Not long after, it was disclosed that the French and the Americans have coordinated their efforts to keep Syria out of Lebanon and to isolate Bashar Assads shaky Syrian regime. And in a recent news conference Donald Rumsfeld and the new German defense minister Franz Josef Jung sounded as if they were once more the old allies of the past, fighting shoulder to shoulder against terrorists who would like to do to Berlin what they did to New York.
The Frenchies regard diplomacy as their strong suit. But when Pencilneck does finally leave office, he'll probably go live in Gay Paree. The Merkel regime in Berlin looks better than it actually is through comparison with Schroeder's, but she's got a skin-of-her-teeth hold on power.
The once plodding and ineffectual British-French-German diplomatic effort to circumvent Irans nuclear program finally reached its predictable dead-end. But instead of the usual backtracking appeasement dressed up in diplomatic doublespeak about multilateralism and dialogue, the Europeans pointedly warned the Iranians that further enrichment was unacceptable and that the use of force to prevent acquisition of an Iranian bomb could not be ruled out.
It took the election of a first-class psychoceramic in Teheran to bring it about. Had Rafsanjani won the election, or even Khatami, they'd still be yapping, with the Medes and the Persians pretended to bend while continuing doing what they want. They didn't erect those reactors and research sites the day Ahmadinejad got elected.
A Europe that once dismissed as retrograde Americas anti-ballistic missile system may well soon be in range of Irans envisioned nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles.
I haven't heard of the Euros actually purchasing any ABM systems, though. They still don't think they're going to be targeted, or if they are that it'll be after we're targeted, which'll give them time to develop defenses at their liesure.
The Dutch suddenly agreed to deploy up to 1,400 troops in the more dangerous regions of southern Afghanistan. That show of fortitude prompted NATO to boast that its European and American forces may soon go on the offensive against many of the most recalcitrant Taliban strongholds.
Yeah. I ate a salad last week, causing me to boast that I'm gonna get skinny as a rail.
When a Danish paper was threatened for printing cartoon caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad, neither the government of Demark nor the usually politically-correct European Union tried to impose censorship in the face of Arab boycotts, rioting, and not-so-veiled threats to make life difficult for Scandinavians. Instead, newspapers all over Europe reprinted the cartoons, ignored Arab threatsonly to witness the United States State Department of all governments offer limp-wristed palliatives about cultural sensitivity rather than principled support of the surprising European defense of free expression and speech.
The dimbulb who made those comments should be looking for a new career in the food service industry. The administration should issue a clarification immediately.
Have the Europeans flipped out?
Only temporarily. Don't forget the short attention span.
Hardly. Recent polls show a majority of Europeans are becoming increasingly tired of current liberal immigration policies and foreign aid programs that have given billions of dollars to the Palestine Authority that they now learn in the aftermath of Yasser Arafats death resulted in both rampant corruption and the Hamas backlash.
Too bad nobody told them about it while it was going on... Oh. Wait... Well, it's too bad they didn't pay attention at the time. They'd maybe have saved some money. But my guess is they'll continue pouring euros down the same rathole so the women and children and puppies and kittens and fluffy bunnies don't starve.
It is one thing to subsidize a double-talking Arafat, quite another to keep giving money to terrorists who openly promise to finish the European holocaust.
Better to give the money to NGOs and let them pass it on.
More importantly, despite distancing themselves from the United States, and spreading cash liberally around, the Europeans are beginning to fathom that the radical Islamists still hate them even more than they do the Americansas if the fundamentalists add disdain for perceived European weakness in addition to the usual generic hatred of all things Western.
Quelle surprise. My gaster has gone all flabby.
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is outand, in humiliating fashion for a supposedly principled socialist, now grubbing for petrodollars for the Russian state-run conglomerate Gazprom.
Merkel's in power by a teeny-tiny margin. Schroeder's out, but there are still SPD hacks sprinkled liberally among her government. The only reason the street yo's aren't hollering "Merkel lied, people died" is that it doesn't rhyme in German. They're still trying to come up with something close, using less than 11-syllable words.
Despite his eleventh hour saber rattling, Jacques Chirac is emasculated.
Always has been Somebody just commented on the Emperor's wardrobe...
Conservatives are now firmly in power in Australia, Canada, Germany, and the United States.
They're out in Spain and keeping a low profile in Portugal. Scandinavia remains mush, Berlusconi's beleaguered, Eastern Europe's still not a power and won't be for years, though I'd guess the center of power will slowly shift to Budapest and Prague and Sofia in years to come. Belgium's a laughinstock, Luxembourg would be if anybody thought about it.
Immigration legislation under consideration from Scandinavia to France makes the American Patriot Act seem tame. Italian wiretaps led to arrests of Muslim terrorists who were plotting another 9/11 at the very time Democratic Senators in confirmation hearings tore into Justice Alito for supposedly condoning police-state tactics.
The one thing the Euros have going for them is the competence of their police, when they're allowed to do anything. When they're not, as in Britain this weekend, fuhgeddaboudit.
Liberals here at home attribute the change of European hearts and minds to the abandonment of our own neocon unilateralism, and Mr. Bushs long overdue return to multilateral bridge building. But that is a superficial exegesis, given that America still supplies the bulk of the coalition troops in both Afghanistan and Iraqand receives daily European goading about electronic surveillance abroad and detention centers in Eastern Europe.
Bush is rather like the Shadow, with the ability to cloud Dems' minds...
Two other developments better explain the warming in Atlantic relations and the Europeans sudden muscularity. First, the Bush administration wisely adopted a Zen-like strategy of keeping low and letting the ankle-biting Europeans take the lead in dealing with radical Islamists like the Iranian theocracy and Hamas. As we stayed silent and played the sullen bad cop, the good guys were sorely disappointed at learning that, yes, the Iranians want both the bomb and Israel destroyed, and that, yes, Hamas, is still intent on annihilating the Jewish state and expecting subsidies to realize that aim. Second guessing and cheap anti-Americanism are easy without responsibility, but the Europeans found very quickly that for all their subtlety and exalted rhetoric they did no better than George Bush in dealing with these anti-Western fanatics.
Rather worse, in fact. But at least they're convinced, for the time being. Give them three months and they'll have decided that they should talk some more.
Second, the two most difficult hurdles are now pastthe removal of the odious Taliban and Saddam Hussein. And thus the overblown caricature of Americans as war-mongering bombers has run out of gas. Europeans, of course, always wished both autocracies gone, but quickly learned they could admit that desire only in the first case.
Actually, they weren't real happy in either case. Go back an read a few days' Rantburg from late 2001.
But now that the Americans are doing the fighting and dying, the Europeans can still be against the war, but for the peace with the utopian rationale that whether the war was right or wrong, Iraq must not become a failed state. Even the most diehard leftists are beginning to see that the fascists who once threatened Salman Rushdie and now bully the Danish cartoonists are the same as those who blow up female school teachers and reformers in Baghdad.
I'd differ with that, too. The die-hard leftists regard the U.S.A. as the greater threat, and will until their friendly neighborhood Islamists chop off their heads. It's the lukewarm lefties who're starting to feel little twinges toward self-preservation, as long as it doesn't involve being nice to the Merkins.
So is Europe now finally at the front or will they retreat Madrid-like in the face of the inevitable second round of terrorist bombings and threats to come?
My money's on retreat. I'm not even sure if they realize that if they retreat all the way they've given away the farm, the cow, and the tractor.
Americans are not confident, but we should remember at least one simple fact: Europe is the embryo of the entire Western military tradition.
Right. Europe is Mark I. We're Mark VI.
The new European Union encompasses a population greater than the United States and spans a continent larger than our own territory. It has a greater gross domestic product than that of America and could, in theory, field military forces as disciplined and as well equipped as our own.
But that's only a theory. Any Jan Sobieski is still far in their future. And the first 9-11 was a close-run thing.
It is not the capability but the will power of the Europeans that has been missing in this war so far. But while pundits argue over whether the European demographic crisis, lack of faith, stalled economy, or multiculturalism are at the root of the continents impotence, we should never forget that if aroused and pushed, a rearmed and powerful Europe could still be at the side of the United States in joint efforts against the jihadists. And should we ever see a true alliance of such Western powers, the war against the fascists of the Middle East would be simply over in short order.
There's a great line in a science-fiction novel, who's name I've forgoten: "The reason we decided to study war no more is because we were too damm good at it". Nobody does industrial age killing like a European style army. We'd rather not have to do it, but push us past a tipping point and we will. And this will not be between people with a shared past and history, as WWI and WWII in Europe were, but against a totally alien enemy. It won't be pretty, and our grandchildren may be revolted at what we do. But, they'll be alive to do so.
#2
Yeah, that was the book. I remember the closing line as well: "Now the Kzin would find out why it pays to be nice to those hairless apes from Planet Earth".
Posted by: Steve ||
02/06/2006 14:42 Comments ||
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#3
I dunno. I'm getting a picture of Europe as Napoleon Dynamite here.
"I could whip all you Islamofascists with Spain tied behind my back!"
"Ayatollah Khomeinis seizure of power in 1979 has shattered this live-and-let-live atmosphere. In his manner, he was confirming that there are a billion Muslims in the world, they have only to make themselves felt as such, and power will then accrue to them, concluding in rightful God-given conquest. More than a challenge, here was an updating of the ancient division of the world into the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Harb. What he preached and exemplified has spread rapidly through one Muslim country after another, activating those who agreed with his dogmatic vision, as well as challenging those with alternative political, secular, or nationalist definitions of their societies. In response to Khomeini, the struggle for self-definition within the Dar al-Islam has left behind it a huge trail of sectarian and communal horrors in Algeria, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran, Sudan, Pakistan, Palestine, and elsewhere.
This wave of violence finally engulfed Muslims who found themselves in the House of War. Their position became uncomfortable as all manner of crises were manipulated to promote separatism at the expense of integration. Completely artificial in substance, the Salman Rushdie affair soon demonstrated how deeply Iranian foreign policy now reached into the West. Also motivated by Iran, another example was the foundation by Dr. Salim Saddiqi of a Muslim parliament in Britain, with the avowed purpose of making Muslims responsible to it, and not to the elected national parliament. Some have had the craft to cloak the demand for separatism as a plea for tolerance. Tariq Ramadan, for one, grandson of Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and a professor safe in Switzerland, argues that Muslims must enjoy all the rights of democracies in order to live among unbelievers as uncompromising Muslimsin other words Muslims are to receive everything and give nothing in return. Other separatists are openly imperialist. In Antwerp, Dyab Abu Jahjah, originally from Lebanon, heads a group whose aim is a transnational unity of all Muslims in Europe, the planting, that is, of the House of Islam on the soil of the House of War"
...
"In this phenomenon, apologists pretend that there is no connection between Islam and those who practice terror in its name, as though terror were incidental, a passing aberration; they also say that measures of self-defense are nothing but state terrorismas bad as Islamist terror, or worse. Day after day, in one detail after another, European authorities and decision-makers, some of them at a high level and others local, degrade the values and practices of their societies by currying favour with Islam in politics, the media, cultural, and behavioral issues, and even the lawa British judge prohibited Hindus and Jews from sitting on the jury in the trial of a Muslim. Robin Cook, at the time British foreign secretary, told a Muslim audience, Islam laid the intellectual foundations for large portions of Western civilization, when in simple fact Muslim scholars were part of a chain transmitting knowledge from classical Greece and Rome, from Persia, and from the Judeo-Christian tradition."
...
" For the moment, the relationship between the House of Islam and the House of War hangs in the balance, depending on imponderables such as what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan, whether Islamists manage to recruit the rank and file, and what the Khomeinist ayatollahs really intend with their nuclear program. Optimists who think that we are bound to muddle through the way we somehow always have, and still come out on top and smiling, are few and far between." RTWT
From Brisard's blog ...
On January 26, 2006, the French Court of Appeal confirmed an earlier judgment lifting preliminary measures to enforce a UK default judgment obtained by KBM against me. The legality of the UK judgment is currently challenged. The Court of Appeal condemned Khalid Bin Mahfouz to pay expenses and fees in connection to this action, and ordered Bin Mahfouz to pay me a compensation (Appeal_JCB_KBM_012606.pdf). It is the first time since he started his ruthless campaign to harass and intimidate experts, journalists and authors writing or reporting on him, that Bin Mahfouz is condemned to pay a financial compensation.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/06/2006 03:13 ||
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#1
Are the tactics of Muzzies any different than that of the faculty of Harvard?
Free Speech unless you want to talk about 'that' topic. Academic Freedom unless you want to address 'that' issue. Other than notching up the hysterics about one or two levels is there much different between Hadji and Nancy Hopkins?
Posted by: Matt ||
02/06/2006 20:47 Comments ||
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#5
With the exception of propaganda printing and uranium mining, their index is in the crapper.
You need more of a political platform than just being a pain in the ass.
Great article by David Pryce-Jones on the Islamist threat. Nothing here will surprise the regulars, but it is a great overview.
Pryce-Jones has been rather sphinx-like on the eventuality of civilizational conflict. In my opinion he is one of the the best conservative commentators on the Arab world. While not staking out a personal position in this article, he nonetheless leans heavily towards the possibility of war.
#1
The answer to that if left up to the Mulsims will be separatism. Their religion cannot withstand unrestricted and open contact with the modern world and western thought. Muhammaed built a cult, and cults can never survive open and free interchange of ideas.
#2
If you back a couple of years in the RB archives, you will find I was saying that the only permanent solution to Europe's non-assimilating Muslim immigrant problem, is to set up segregated areas they are restricted to. You can think of them as Gaza Strips MKII, III, IV, etc. It remains to be seen if they will be located in Europe itself or they carve out enclaves in North Africa. Mark my words on this.
#4
For the second and third generation immigrants there is no home country to send them back to. And the home countries of the many of the first generation will refuse to take them back. So physical areas are needed to segregate them in.
#5
As a Ducth buddy says phil_b: "If islam is what they want let them live in islamland not here in the Netherlands." They can go back if it's out of a sense of piety.
#6
If you back a couple of years in the RB archives, you will find I was saying that the only permanent solution to Europe's non-assimilating Muslim immigrant problem, is to set up segregated areas they are restricted to
No this is not permanent becuase then they will a bigger share. Tghe only two permanent solutions are unislamization or expulsion.
The unislamaization thing requires between other thing requires that we drop multicultism: stop exagerating the (limited) role of Islamic science (this builds pride in being a Muslim), discourage the initiatives of countries of origin to keep an ideological grip on immigrants (eg lessons of Arabic or "cultural" circles), dicretely subsidy centrifugal movements (eg North Africans who define themselves as Berbers and no stinking Arabs with Islam only an instrument of Arab domination), provide protrection to those who want to leave Islam and don't miss an occasion to fly in the face of Arab/Muslim proppaganda (eg when they ask an apolgy for cartoons reply "when you apologize for the beheaded school girls in Indonesia and for the calls to murder infidels in Arabia's mosques, when they talk about the Crusades talk about the (prior to Crusades) taking of Cesarea where Muslims adorned themselves with the guts of fallen defenders, when they talk about the "pooooor, suffering Palestinians, reply with data about the genocide against blacks in Soudan, contrast the well-fed palestininan child with tjhe starving soudanese ones and then accuse them of racism.
We want to split islam through its fracture lines (blacks, arabs, berbers, real arabs against mere arabic speaking people of North Africa) with all the fragments rjecting it as instrument of domination , backwardness and promoter of evil. Then we will only have to deal with a a small hard core isolated in a sea of hostile former Muslims.
#7
Heck no, don't give muslims enclaves in Europe. They only become bases to import more muslims and launch attacks. In the short term, deportation to their homelands or conversion for the priviledge of staying is the only alternative. But in the case of France or Belgium, I believe that point has already passed and at a minimum their cities will go up in flames.
In the long term, how does civilized society protect themselves from a "religion" that controls the manufacture of nuclear weapons, requires death or conversion of all humanity and strive to bring about the return the Madhi. Even total isolation is insufficient when the various centers of islamic power reach the capability of launching thousands of warheads out of the blue. Because of our dawdling and refusal to take care of the problem while it is still manageable, the world is going to eat a huge shit sandwich.
Posted by: ed ||
02/06/2006 9:12 Comments ||
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You know after the Reconquesta, the Kingdom of Spain expelled both the Muzzies and the Jews [who by the way help finance the operation, it was just as much a debt relief action as religious]. The Inquisition spent some of its time catching 'lapsed' moros and judeos that had taken the 'conversion' to Christianity rather than 'move' option. Seemed to have worked for at least 500 years. Appearently better than late 20th century multiculturalism in the case of Islam.
#10
I would suggest giving free air fair for a Hajj to Mecca combined with a cancellation of all visas/passports/outgoing flights once they are there. Let the Saudi's deal with them.
#11
In contrast, the general run of the Left, in the company of spokesmen for the numerous Muslim organizations, have hurried forward to displace any blame away from the perpetrators of terror, and on to other people. A slew of do-gooders reluctant to jettison multiculturalism likes to assert that Western society has made Islamists and terrorists what they are, by excluding them and in general showing inadequate regard to their rights.
Islam, and Islam alone has made Islamists and terrorists what they are. They can unmake them or be vaporized in nuclear fire. This seems to be about the only two alternatives. The whole cartoon dustup has shown how intensely incompatible Islam is with any other culture. There will be no assimilation. Therefore, they can go back to their countries of origin or integrate. No seperate but equal crap.
#12
JFM, essentially you are argueing they can be assimilated, whereas I concluded sometime ago that assimilation isn't going to happen for many and perhaps most. BTW, I'd earmarked Corsica as the place France would allocate for them.
#13
BTW, I'd earmarked Corsica as the place France would allocate for them.
I'm sure corsicans would appreciate that... why don't you go there to suggest using the "isle of beauty" as a muslim reservation?
IIRC (not sure of the actual figures), there are about 250 000 inhabitants, most of them "ethnic corsicans" with lotsa family ties to the continent, could check it out I guess, about 20% of which are north-african muslim migrants; still, theses are real, real quiet (though I've read reports of serious incidents), due to the peculiar habits of the corsican male, not devirilized like his euro counterpart... in short, they carry.
Still, corsican birthrate is among the lowest in western Europa, similar to Spain I think, so again, future is not bright there too.
Fun alert : check this pics gallery to have a better understanding of corsican traditions, lol...
A Danish blogger despairs at the way in which the cartoon protests were immediately seen as political opportunities by many on both sides in the U.S. Excerpt:
My disappointment in America is only deepening. Get over yourselves, dammit. The religious right has to realize this has nothing to do with "respect" for religious beliefs, and the far left needs to realize this has nothing to do with America's Christian right.
This is our second embassy burned in twelve hours, and you assholes are fiddling Denmark away, marginalizing the issue and trying to use it to whack each other rhetorically.
That's the kind of behavior I used to expect from Germany and France, but even they see the warning signs on this one.
On the other hand, Europe, it might be time to ask yourself if you're partly to blame: can you think of any reasons why America might be reluctant to involve itself in "European" affairs?
Something powerful and decisive needs to be done soon. Someone needs to turn on the red light.
#1
Actually, I enjoyed a couple of bottles of Tuborg beer and some Havarti cheese last evening while watching the football game, and am munching on a Royal Dansk butter cookie as I conclude my lunch. It is my way of protesting the Islamic response to the cartoon issue. And a rather tasty protest it is.
#3
Dear Denmark: Learn from America. You can no longer expect the police or the government to protect you from criminals, so you must do so yourself. This is not vigilantism.
This is the willingness of each and every capable citizen to immediately intercede to prevent the commission of a crime, be it a crime against a person or a crime against property.
Criminals cannot function in public when every man will act as a policeman, all the time. Criminals are most often cowards, so even the threat of civilian action will force them to behave civilly.
Gun control is no excuse, because almost any object can be used as a weapon in some way. In many circumstances, a sharp or blunt object is even more effective than a gun.
But the man on the street must take the initiative. He must act himself, and he must encourage others to act; he must argue against those who say he should not act, and he must chastize those who refuse to act.
If a man holds up a sign calling on others to kill, citizens should arrest him on the spot and hold him for the police. Though the policeman may not arrest him for his crime, he will think twice before doing it again.
Until the Danes show a willingness to police their own society, their society will be imperiled by criminals. They no longer have the luxury of waiting for government to protect them.
#4
My disappointment with the author is only deepening. Get over yourself, dammit. This has nothing to do with Denmark or cartoons. This has to do with further fleecing Europeans to financially support the Palestinian welfare/warfare state, diverting attention from a Syrian totalitarian crisis, raising the American Street's perception that messing with those nut jobs in Iran and the Middle East in general would be disasterous, and tweaking the West in general.
America is not "fiddling Denmark away" -- Muslims are "fiddling Denmark away" in with optimism defying intelligence. They are hoping that they can occupy Europe without assimilating, they are hoping that Westerners will leave the Middle East alone, and they are hoping that Iran will gain nukes and destroy strategic chunks of the Western world. They are Islam's fools. We will not submit.
#5
The religious right has to realize this has nothing to do with "respect" for religious beliefs, and the far left needs to realize this has nothing to do with America's Christian right.
Just which sites has he been reading? Most of the "right" sites -- with notable exceptions like Hugh Hewitt -- have said it's about free speech, not respect. Some "left" sites have taken the same stance, though some have also taken the "respect" line of BS.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/06/2006 14:13 Comments ||
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Denmark's a relatively small country -- and they've been a GOOD ally in Iraq. They've extended their presence there and the Danish public by and large supports the effort.
They've also cracked down on immigration and are much tougher than their neighbors on the drugs, sex slaves and other traffic coming out of Russia et al.
They are taking a MAJOR hit with this violence. Economically, the boycott will have a huge impact and might even bring down the center-right government. Philosophically, they have gotten little support on any of their sensible initiatives from the rest of Europe.
Agree with him or not, he has a point in that they need us as a visible ally for THEM right now.
#10
you've got apoint.. and I am buying Danish. It's nice to see spine - I suppose it's the rest of the EU that I'm ticked at slow and conflicting messages.
#11
Well, our disappointment with Europe became pretty deep, too, shortly after 9/11, when Euro sympathy turned out to be nothing more than the APPEARANCE of sympathy.
That said, I'm with you, lotp-it is absolutely shameful that our government has not come out in clear, unambiguous support of free speech (and by logical extension, Denmark). It is not savvy-it's cowardly. And it's appalling that the State Dept provides compassionate words of comfort to Muslims instead of providing comfort to cartoonists, filmmakers, etc., who are no doubt terrified by the death threats from these murderers in Islam. The original Danish cartoons are quite benign-do a bit of searching on the Internet and you will find some truly provocative artistic statements about Islam. Try Devereux's piece-now that's bold (although I would say it rings quite true and I understand why Devereux created it).
I am thankful for the Danes' sacrifices in Iraq-very grateful. When I worked overseas, I found the Danes to be very decent folks-they were among the first in the Baltic states to support those new, fledgling, ex-Soviet democracies. They aren't above sweating or matching talk with action. I applaud Denmark's challenge, Europe's challenge to this cult called Islam and hope our leaders will soon come to their senses and do the right thing...waiting...chirpchirpchirp
#12
I just went to the Danish blogger's site (linked above) to read his entire post. The guy is coming down hard on the useful idiots' commentary at both dalilykos and democraticunderground. His comments are okay as to the coverage seen so far at NRO. He also jabs at the folk in Europe telling them that maybe the reason the USA is not more involved to date is because of how the USA has been treated by Europe. This Dane is okay. He's also got some interesting stuff on his blog. Worth a look see.
Posted by: Mark Z ||
02/06/2006 20:56 Comments ||
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#13
"Self-censorship is tyranny's sorry, trembling little helper..."
In light of gutless newspapers refusing to print the cartoons - like The Age in Australia, could the more inventive out there please:
1) Make stencils of Cartoon Mohammed (you can stencil in watercolours only - no grafitti - around the city)
2) Screen print some sexy body-hugging chesty bonds T-shirts for women with some humourous Mohammed cartoon on, plus some loose T-shirts for men.
I would like to buy some Mo Cartoon T-shirts but don't have time to screenprint and can't find any on ebay.
Whoever does this should donate say 30% of profits to the cartoonists themselves who are living in hiding now.
No. Let's not do this.
I don't believe in wantonly insulting any person's religion. I'm a Catholic -- not a good one, but I try. I'm not happy at all when I see a crucifix placed in a jar of urine, and I'm even less happy when someone tells me that it's 'art' when they really mean that it's an insult.
In response, I haven't beheaded anyone, nor have I set fire to an embassy. I have, however, become smoldering angry over the repeated insults to my religion in a country where religious tolerance is supposed to be the norm. I understand that words mean something, and I understand that words and images can be used to insult, intimidate and humiliate.
I'm not interested in inflaming people of another faith. I'm interested in seeing our world become a little better, and little more peaceful, a little more tolerant of each other. That's the kind of world in which I want my kid to live. That world and that vision are threatened by some who claim a particular faith as theirs and who behead, and bomb, and murder based on that claim. I want that stopped, and if necessary I and a lot of other Americans will go whole-hog medieval to stop it.
But the world I want doesn't include wanton insults that are designed to injure others. I tell my kid not to do that, and it isn't right for me, either.
I agree. To do this sort of thing plays right into the hands of the Islamacists. If you want to help the cartoonists, you could donate directly. Or write letters. But if you create a visual image that can be beamed directly to 1.5 billion people it is designed to offend - many of whom cannot or wont' have access to read your carefully reasoned arguments but know what they're seeing when it is beamed into their living rooms or shown on a computer in the local mosque - you're just being a useful tool for the extremists. And they won't bother to send you a royalty check off of the monies and terror volunteers it gets them, either. JMNSHO
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Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
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Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
THE trouble with the West is that we have forgotten that some things are sacred. We find it so difficult to comprehend the reaction of the Muslim world to that ham-fisted Danish cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a terrorist because our churches stand empty, our faith is weak and our God has left the building. 
Over the last four years Americans have played a sort of parlor game wondering whenor ifthe Europeans might awake to the danger of Islamic fascism and choose a more muscular role in the war on terrorism. But after the acrimony over the invasion of Iraq, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo, pessimists scoffed that the Atlantic alliance was essentially over. 
"Ayatollah Khomeinis seizure of power in 1979 has shattered this live-and-let-live atmosphere. In his manner, he was confirming that there are a billion Muslims in the world, they have only to make themselves felt as such, and power will then accrue to them, concluding in rightful God-given conquest. More than a challenge, here was an updating of the ancient division of the world into the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Harb. What he preached and exemplified has spread rapidly through one Muslim country after another, activating those who agreed with his dogmatic vision, as well as challenging those with alternative political, secular, or nationalist definitions of their societies. In response to Khomeini, the struggle for self-definition within the Dar al-Islam has left behind it a huge trail of sectarian and communal horrors in Algeria, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran, Sudan, Pakistan, Palestine, and elsewhere. 
