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2011-03-15 Africa North
Gaddafi forces advance towards Libyan rebel capital
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Posted by Fred 2011-03-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ]  Top

#1 See also BLOOMBERG > GADDAFI ADVANCE PUTS FORCES 100 MILES FROM REBELS' CAPITAL [Benghazi].
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-03-15 01:01||   2011-03-15 01:01|| Front Page Top

#2 Here's a Solution to the problem in Libya:
They want a new Muslim leader. I say give them ours.

Solves 2 problems.

Posted by Besoeker 2011-03-15 04:57||   2011-03-15 04:57|| Front Page Top

#3 I'm all impatience waiting for the ceremony wherein all European leaders (and their USA copies) line up to beg Kadaffy's forgiveness.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-03-15 05:42||   2011-03-15 05:42|| Front Page Top

#4 I'm sure when the fighting is over, Qadafft will simply forget all those who called for a no-fly zone and go back to business as usual.

Meanwhile, Zero has impressed all sides with his 'going along with the international community' plan.
Posted by Bobby 2011-03-15 06:56||   2011-03-15 06:56|| Front Page Top

#5 We STILL don't have a dog in that fight. If the EUtards want their oil, let THEM go fight for it.

Me, I don't give a crap about Libya.
Posted by mojo 2011-03-15 12:16||   2011-03-15 12:16|| Front Page Top

#6 The latest running of the Benghazi Handicaps.
Posted by notascrename 2011-03-15 12:16||   2011-03-15 12:16|| Front Page Top

#7 Rebel morale was boosted by an Arab League decision on Saturday to support a no-fly zone over Libya and to make contact with the bad boys' national council in Benghazi.

Amusing. It wouldn't surprise me if Arab regimes were criticizing Gaddafi in public (for the benefit of the masses at home, who hate him for whacking the rebels fighting him), and privately sending aid to him. It would be of a piece with Arab regimes criticizing the US in public, and sending elite units to Afghanistan to fight al Qaeda and the Taliban. The anti-American Arab masses have to be placated with the usual shibboleths about the Great Satan, even though the Arab leadership understands where their interests truly lie.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 13:40||   2011-03-15 13:40|| Front Page Top

#8 Plus they certainly benefit from the runup in oil prices due to the chaos.
Posted by lotp 2011-03-15 14:23||   2011-03-15 14:23|| Front Page Top

#9 Anything done now is far too late except for a deliberate decapitation strike on Gadaffi and his inner circle.

Obama sat on his ass waiting for someone else to act and the world passed by this opportunity to rid itself of a know backer of terrorism. Other dictators watching now know the US has no backbone so they will act with impunity. Liberty has been defeated.
Posted by No I am The Other Beldar 2011-03-15 14:28||   2011-03-15 14:28|| Front Page Top

#10 Prediction #1: Gaddafi will subdue the rebels and then execute all of them (very publicly)
Prediction #2: Gadaffi will announce a tax on oil exports to help defray the cost of the civil war
Prediction #3: OPEC will match the new price to bring "stability" to the oil market
Prediction #4: Somehow the Democrats will blame the Republicans for the whole ME mess
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2011-03-15 14:51||   2011-03-15 14:51|| Front Page Top

#11 Prediction #5: Gaddafi will sponsor terror attacks on the West, killing hundreds.

When someone tells you that he wants to kill you, take him seriously!
Posted by Thaper Spawn of the Faeries7699 2011-03-15 15:57||   2011-03-15 15:57|| Front Page Top

#12 Prediction #5: Gaddafi will sponsor terror attacks on the West, killing hundreds.

When someone tells you that he wants to kill you, take him seriously!

When has Gaddafi said he wants to kill us? AFAIK, he made his peace with the West a decade ago. It's obvious, from much of the West's rhetoric, that we haven't made our peace with him. In fact, the West's support for infidel-hating exterminationist Arab masses seems to show that we'd rather have Al Qaeda-lovers in power than the dictators we've grown accustomed to, as long as they're brought to power via the ballot box.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 16:05||   2011-03-15 16:05|| Front Page Top

#13 Propaganda or comedy? You decide:

A day before the assault on Ajdabiya, Col. Gadhafi's warplanes dropped leaflets on Ajdabiya, warning that the invasion was imminent and urging the residents to hunt down the "traitors;" the leaflets described the rebels as an unholy alliance of al Qaeda and the "Zionists."

In its desperate broadcasts that aimed to rally the resistance's sagging spirits on Tuesday, the Voice of Free Libya hit back at Col. Gadhafi, accusing the Libyan leader of being a Zionist agent himself, denying any al Qaeda links, and airing the pre-Gadhafi national anthem.

Notice that the rebels don't accuse Gaddafi of having al Qaeda links. I'm guessing that either there is a number of al Qaeda sympathizers among the rebels or the rebels don't consider al Qaeda members to be bad people.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 17:42||   2011-03-15 17:42|| Front Page Top

#14 If Qadaffy survives this civil war, Americans will die. Whether it is through attacks on European planes or other targets, if Americans are on those planes or targets, they will be victims of Obama's "golf Outings" during these crisis rather than staying on the job insuring American and Allied interests.
Posted by Kofi Glulet8846 2011-03-15 17:47||   2011-03-15 17:47|| Front Page Top

#15 If Qadaffy survives this civil war, Americans will die. Whether it is through attacks on European planes or other targets, if Americans are on those planes or targets, they will be victims of Obama's "golf Outings" during these crisis rather than staying on the job insuring American and Allied interests.

Gaddafi's days as the self-appointed messiah of a pan-Muslim and pan-Arabic confederation are long over. Western interests are best served by staying out of the way as he crushes these Islamists.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 17:53||   2011-03-15 17:53|| Front Page Top

#16 When has Gaddafi said he wants to kill us?

Gaddafi calls for jihad against Switzerland

When someone like Gaddafi calls for jihad he announces hit intention to sponsor terror attacks.
It would be impossible by the way to attack Swiss population centers and/or tourist spots without killing citizens of other Western European countries, the US, Australia, Japan, China (tourism from China having increased recently).

A Nuclear Standoff With Libya

Gaddafi gave up his nuclear weapons material in 2003, yet in 2009 he used his nuclear weapons material to extort the West.

Note the underlying assumption. Gaddafi would either build nuclear weapons or assist other unfriendlies nuclear ambitions if his demands weren't met. If the West believed Gaddafi would do neither the extortion would not have worked.

“If I had an atomic bomb I would wipe Switzerland off the map"

Hannibal Gaddafi's precipitated the Switzerland crisis. Other measures taken by Libya were taking hostages and threatening the integrity of the Swiss embassy.

Switzerland is representing the US in Teheran btw, so this threat should have been a concern for the US too.

Also compare this to Mindzenty in the US embassy in Budapest. Even the nuclear armed USSR did not dare violate the embassy's premises.

For reference, another Gaddafi hellspawn triggered a diplomatic crisis with Germany in 2007.

The pattern is clear. The Gaddafi regime had been getting more and more aggressive even before the rebellion.

Gaddafi could be deterred if he believed that acts of aggression will be punished. Unfortunately he has come to the conclusion at least since 2003 that nothing he does would provoke such punishment.

He feared Ronald Reagan as long as he was in office.

He feared George W Bush from about 2001-2003.

In 2011 he does not fear anyone, any limit on him is caused by capability, not intent.
Posted by Thaper Spawn of the Faeries7699 2011-03-15 19:14||   2011-03-15 19:14|| Front Page Top

#17 Gaddafi could be deterred if he believed that acts of aggression will be punished. Unfortunately he has come to the conclusion at least since 2003 that nothing he does would provoke such punishment.

He beat up on the Swiss because they had arrested his son earlier. The Swiss gave in to him because they wanted to continue doing business with him. In fact, he still has about $700m in Swiss bank accounts. (I'm sure he'll move these assets to Singapore or Hong Kong when the Swiss get round to unfreezing them). After a decade of US military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, including the deaths of Saddam and his sons, I seriously doubt anyone, least of all Gaddafi, thinks that Uncle Sam is going to sit around while its areas of influence are nuked.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 19:31||   2011-03-15 19:31|| Front Page Top

#18 He beat up on the Swiss because they had arrested his son earlier.


Ah, nepotism and unstatesmanship like behavior with regard to kin is so lame. The son had it coming. So does Daffy, I just hope Sarkozy is actually instrumental in some of this. I am bored with observing the U.S. doing things half baked. Personally, I don't know about you, but Sarkozy in action is pretty entertaining so if he get the NFZ going, pass the popcorn!!
Posted by Fi 2011-03-15 19:44||   2011-03-15 19:44|| Front Page Top

#19 Excuse moi, passez moi le popcorn.
Posted by Fi 2011-03-15 19:46||   2011-03-15 19:46|| Front Page Top

#20 Hannibal Gaddafi was arrested in Switzerland because he abused his slaves servants.

Hannibal Gaddafi and his slaves servants were at the time under Swiss jurisdiction. The slaves servants as legal temporary residents were entitled to the protection offered by Swiss anti-slavery law.

The Libyan position is that free citizens and residents of free Western nations are fair game for the Libyan despotic regime, no matter if they are in their own countries or elsewhere in the world. This is actually echoing the Barbary Pirate's view that infidels are fair game.

The Swiss government caved in because they were concerned about the safety of the two Swiss hostages in Libya (held from July of 2008 to February/June of 2010.) They also feared bloodshed should the Libyans storm the Swiss embassy.

Neither European neighbors or the US were of any help in defending the very fundamentals of Swiss territorial sovereignty (exercised for a highly moral purpose) or diplomatic immunities and protections.

The $700m are likely connected to the operations of Libyan owned Tamoil assets in Switzerland, a chain of filling stations and refineries. A fire sale would have meant a huge monetary loss for Gaddafi.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan deterring Gaddafi:

Iraq has been declared a mistake by the current administration (and the US voters.) It is not to be repeated.

And Afghanistan is 'their' war, not 'ours' per McChrystal. It is a therapeutic intervention. Western troops are in Afghanistan to serve the Afghan people. They fight to convince the Taliban to join a national unity government. No one talks about meting out punishment for 9/11 to anyone in Afghanistan.
Instead non-Muslims in the West are exhorted not to hurts the Afghan people's feelings.

All that may or may not be the right policy for Iraq and Afghanistan but it certainly does not deter Gaddafi, who does not act as if he was deterred either.

Gaddafi might be wrong, and after a couple of Lockerbies he might be taken out. But that would not bring back the victims.

An Arab-Islamic dictator calling for jihad intends to kill. He should be taken seriously!
Posted by Thaper Spawn of the Faeries7699 2011-03-15 20:31||   2011-03-15 20:31|| Front Page Top

#21 And Afghanistan is 'their' war, not 'ours' per McChrystal. It is a therapeutic intervention. Western troops are in Afghanistan to serve the Afghan people. They fight to convince the Taliban to join a national unity government. No one talks about meting out punishment for 9/11 to anyone in Afghanistan.
Instead non-Muslims in the West are exhorted not to hurts the Afghan people's feelings.

Muslims understand that this is propaganda for their consumption, necessary for recruiting Afghans and forces from other Muslim countries to help. If we called this a war against Islamists, Muslim participation would go through the floor - in Islam, being too devout is like being too rich or too healthy, it's a badge of honor rather than any kind of negative.

And how the heck are we going to recruit Afghans to inflict punishment for 9/11? In a different age, we could have done the convert or die thing and had them become Christians en masse, thereby incorporating them into Christendom (and perhaps adding the carrot of American citizenship, much as the Romans once did for their recruits) and justifying their slaughter of their former brethren, now redefined as pagan unbelievers, under the banner of a Crusade. These days? Forget it - the kind of coercion and bloodshed needed for it to stick is unimaginable in the present context. (Besides, the martial priests of antiquity are history. Today's milk-and-water clergy are not suited to the task of being auxiliaries to the Crusades of yore).
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 22:31||   2011-03-15 22:31|| Front Page Top

#22 Beside, Gaddafi can't have failed to notice that we "nation-built" right over the bodies of Saddam and sons and tens of thousands of Iraqi rebels and Taliban fighters. You may think his principal concern is the welfare of the Libyan people, but not being a mind-reader, my assumption is that while there is no I in "TEAM", most leaders spend their time looking out for number I.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 22:39||   2011-03-15 22:39|| Front Page Top

#23 And how the heck are we going to recruit Afghans to inflict punishment for 9/11? In a different age, we could have done the convert or die thing and had them become Christians en masse, thereby incorporating them into Christendom (and perhaps adding the carrot of American citizenship, much as the Romans once did for their recruits) and justifying their slaughter of their former brethren, now redefined as pagan unbelievers, under the banner of a Crusade. These days? Forget it - the kind of coercion and bloodshed needed for it to stick is unimaginable in the present context. (Besides, the martial priests of antiquity are history. Today's milk-and-water clergy are not suited to the task of being auxiliaries to the Crusades of yore)


Zhang Fei said it.
Posted by Fi 2011-03-15 22:42||   2011-03-15 22:42|| Front Page Top

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