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2005-11-20 Iraq
BREAKING: Report: al-Zarqawi killed by explosions in Mosul
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Posted by Brett 2005-11-20 12:31|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 OhpleaseOhPleaseOhpleaseOhplease!

Wrap him in bacon boys and point the head south.
Posted by GoldenshellbackII 2005-11-20 12:40||   2005-11-20 12:40|| Front Page Top

#2 Recognizable body parts? DNA? DNC membership card?
Posted by Thomoper Ebbonter9699 2005-11-20 12:41||   2005-11-20 12:41|| Front Page Top

#3 Visit Zarqa in Jordan and begin gathering DNA to use in forensic analysis. This needs to be verified thoroughly. Fortunately, this cretin is such a media whore that he'll release a video interview should he have had the incredible good fortune to stay alive. Please let him be dead.

I wonder if, after the Amman bombings, Jordan didn't start pulling in some markers to get the drop on this maggot.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 12:48||   2005-11-20 12:48|| Front Page Top

#4 Out of all this Sadam's son's have been the bravest. They fought to the death.
Posted by Jomotch Chinesh1564 2005-11-20 12:49||   2005-11-20 12:49|| Front Page Top

#5 Brave?!?!??

My ass.

They repeatedly targeted women, children and unarmed worshippers.

And they didnt fight to the death, they blew themselves up rather than fight. Pussies.
Posted by Oldspook 2005-11-20 12:55||   2005-11-20 12:55|| Front Page Top

#6 Don't worry, he probably has (had?) a lot of stuff in the can. I understand that the live show from Amman was a real blast.
Posted by Curt Simon 2005-11-20 12:58||   2005-11-20 12:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Ah come on. This is a man who sends others to go Boom[tm]. These leaders are way too important to be bothered by way they advocate others to do. Skeptical meter on high.
Posted by Snump Ebbiting5547 2005-11-20 13:04||   2005-11-20 13:04|| Front Page Top

#8 Quite frankly he was/is a liability to AQ. In the sense that he may be replaced with someone a bit smarter, I hope it isn't him.
Posted by Jake-the-Peg 2005-11-20 13:06||   2005-11-20 13:06|| Front Page Top

#9 begin gathering DNA

Just a guess, but I suspect that has been done wrt his close relatives some time ago. Probably via the Jordanian security apparatus as he has been an avowed enemy of the government.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 13:09||   2005-11-20 13:09|| Front Page Top

#10 lotp:
"Aren't you supposed to only swab our cheek for DNA"

"Nahhhh - we take limbs"
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-11-20 13:12||   2005-11-20 13:12|| Front Page Top

#11 Thomoper Ebbonter9699, post #2: "Recognizable body parts? DNA? DNC membership card?"

Caused a full-on coffee-through-nose snort!! Bravo! (and Spot-On!)
Posted by Justrand 2005-11-20 13:13||   2005-11-20 13:13|| Front Page Top

#12 Don't worry, he probably has (had?) a lot of stuff in the can. I understand that the live show from Amman was a real blast.

Broadcasts without direct reference to current events or a recent newspaper edition in the foreground don't carry much weight. Ask Osama.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 13:17||   2005-11-20 13:17|| Front Page Top

#13 What Hollywood will play his role in the coming movie? Depp, I believe.
Posted by Brett 2005-11-20 13:18||   2005-11-20 13:18|| Front Page Top

#14 That would be Hollywood star.
Posted by Brett 2005-11-20 13:19||   2005-11-20 13:19|| Front Page Top

#15 Dear "coalition forces:"

Well done. The beer's on me!
Posted by Mike 2005-11-20 13:21||   2005-11-20 13:21|| Front Page Top

#16 Debka was talking about senior al queda blowing themselves up earlier... matches up... fingers crossed
Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2005-11-20 13:30||   2005-11-20 13:30|| Front Page Top

#17 Threaten the King of Jordan on Friday and you're dead by Sunday...

Posted by john 2005-11-20 13:36||   2005-11-20 13:36|| Front Page Top

#18 If the boomerette led them to Zark, his fellow mujahids will just use this a further proof that a woman's place is in the home, and Allan smote Zark because he let a woman get involved.
Posted by Penguin 2005-11-20 13:37||   2005-11-20 13:37|| Front Page Top

#19 And here the Dems were on the talking heads shows this morning trying to explain why we need a "Political solution to the war in Iraq". I believe that's weenie-speak for "cut and run".
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2005-11-20 13:38||   2005-11-20 13:38|| Front Page Top

#20 where is msm reports of this?
Posted by Ding Dangalang 2005-11-20 13:41||   2005-11-20 13:41|| Front Page Top

#21 Deacon, your translation is exactly right.

It's simple: the Dems never bought into the war, but they were 'forced' to do by having to vote on it a month before the 2002 election (Karl Rove is a genius). They've been trying to back out ever since.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2005-11-20 13:41||   2005-11-20 13:41|| Front Page Top

#22 We can only hope the rumors of his demise are not greatly exaggerated. Hope the S.O.B is room temperature.
Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-20 13:47||   2005-11-20 13:47|| Front Page Top

#23 Threaten the King of Jordan on Friday and you're dead by Sunday...

Which begs the question (if this is true); Why didn't King Abdullah II cough up this prize morsel any earlier? I sincerely doubt the failed boomerette had direct knowledge of Zarq's whereabouts. That would stand in direct violation of all standard terrorist cell structures. For Zarq (pieces be upon him) to be fingered so promptly, there most likely had to be some pre-existing knowledge. Enquiring minds want to know!
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 13:52||   2005-11-20 13:52|| Front Page Top

#24 where is msm reports of this?
Posted by Jomotch Chinesh1564 2005-11-20 13:53||   2005-11-20 13:53|| Front Page Top

#25 Recognizable body parts? DNA? DNC membership card?

French passport? UN ID card?
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-11-20 13:54|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-11-20 13:54|| Front Page Top

#26 where is msm reports of this?
Probally quad drouple checking thier sources.
Posted by Jomotch Chinesh1564 2005-11-20 13:54||   2005-11-20 13:54|| Front Page Top

#27 Gunmen launch deadly ambush of Marine convoy
This is what CNN is headlining.
Posted by plainslow 2005-11-20 13:56||   2005-11-20 13:56|| Front Page Top

#28 Oh I hope its true. Where's that singing fat viking lady! This is great, lets see now who pick up the lead.
Posted by 49 pan 2005-11-20 13:56||   2005-11-20 13:56|| Front Page Top

#29 Fred, is it too early for a screamer on this? Bloody hell, I sure hope this is true. Our troops deserve a little holiday cheer.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 13:59||   2005-11-20 13:59|| Front Page Top

#30 No fat ladies can sing until the anouncement comes from US sources, I'd say. Oh, on the record US sources.
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-11-20 14:00|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-11-20 14:00|| Front Page Top

#31 The MSM will only report this pro-W news when it is triple-confirmed by AP/al Reuters via the US Military.

If true, I bet this raises W's polling by 10 points.
Posted by Brett 2005-11-20 14:13||   2005-11-20 14:13|| Front Page Top

#32 Zarqawi is a satan worshipper in a blood cult disguised as a mooslim. He is sentenced to die and may a million shards of fine glass penetrate his child molesting body one piece at a time. If he was given justice by his co-molesters to escape justice here on earth, then God's infinite justice will prevail. Unlike the pervert apostate Zarqawi, I will not pretend to know what God's plan will be for him. Zarqawi repeatedly elevated himself to the level of God and will now face the terrible truth... he is not God. If this event is used to provoke a response out of Zarqawi to deny his death as a coward that he is, then so be it. It will save time and money on doing DNA tests trying to verify if the suckling pig was finally well roasted. So how about it Zarqawi? Is you dead pig meat or are you live pig meat? If you alive pig-boy, then be it known that you are soon dead.
Posted by Fun Dung Poo 2005-11-20 14:15||   2005-11-20 14:15|| Front Page Top

#33 From this article:

"The family of al-Zarqawi, whose real name is Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh, reiterated their strong allegiance to Jordan's King Abdullah II in half-page advertisements in the kingdom's three main newspapers. "

Maybe dear old mom and pop Zark gave him up.
Posted by Penguin 2005-11-20 14:27||   2005-11-20 14:27|| Front Page Top

#34 If the boomerette led them to Zark, his fellow mujahids will just use this a further proof that a woman's place is in the home, and Allan smote Zark because he let a woman get involved.

That's okay - it cuts down their pool of potential boomers ....
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 14:58||   2005-11-20 14:58|| Front Page Top

#35 so whats the latest?? ded or not, i see nothing on t.v news channels yet :(
Posted by Shep UK 2005-11-20 15:01||   2005-11-20 15:01|| Front Page Top

#36 Zen - Re your #23, I've been less than complimentary of Kingy Thingy, among a whole host of such tepid "friends", and got thoroughly lectured about how useful he is, a staunch ally, he has to be wary of his Paleo pop, etc, ad infinitum ad nauseum. Even got a Moderate Muzzy Watch when he gave some spiffy MSM quotes to show how good a guy he is. *gag*

Truth is, we have damned few "allies" in the WoT. Most of the ones who might be useful aren't very, Pervy, Abdullah (Jordan), Abdullah (SA), Yippie (*spit*), Mubarek, et al. The realpolitik types tell me we have to play along with 'em cuz they're in tenuous positions, are highly strategic, etc. But truthfully, they only help us when it's in their direct interests to do so, same as it would be if we weren't "allies" which translates to us dumping aid on them like every day's fucking Christmas. So the realpolitik strikes me as pure gas of the State Dept Brain Fart variety. With precisely that standard of return on investment.

Zarqi may be the sharpest knife in the drawer, literally, but he's among the dullest dimwits on the planet. Thank Gawd. Declaring war on Jordan and blowing up weddings full of Jordanians and Paleos should prove the point. NOW the Jordanians are interested and upset - cuz they've felt what their Iraqi neighbors have been going through over well over a year. The ClueBat paid them a personal visit. So NOW they're getting their back up. Pfeh. Bullshit. If he hadn't blown them up and threatened His Harleyness, we would receive the usual: dribbles of help for MASSIVE aid and a Jordanian population willing to fund, assist in logistics, the whole panoply of shit we have to deal with in the Sunni Triangle.

I believe the time has come to recall all of our "arrangements" and review them for whether they actually serve US and whether we get a decent ROI. I would drop every asshat deal like a rock. I would then consolidate that aid and make it clear that the pot is much bigger, now, for intel that pays off. Those who play ball get a payment. No takedowns of the people and orgs we want taken down, then no moola or arms or anything else. Think of it as I do about marriage, heh. I can pay alot, day in day out, for a diminishing return, or I can pay whatever I can negotiate when I actually feel like getting my ashes hauled - and I mean by a pro who can haul ashes with the best, lol.

I'll get strafed for this, but my personal truism is:
"Baby I don't wanna own it, I just wanna borrow it for awhile."

Same for these dipshit moronic accommodation deal with those who can, but don't, help. Pony up the goods and we'll pay. Otherwise, nada.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 15:07||   2005-11-20 15:07|| Front Page Top

#37 any sensible suggestions anyone to how long it may take to do a DNA analysis??? do they have little gadgets to do DNA tests within hours or does it have to go to some lame Lab for testing??
Posted by Shep UK 2005-11-20 15:16||   2005-11-20 15:16|| Front Page Top

#38 I don't think there is anything in this story. I hope I am wrong but where is the msm. Sky news would be all over this by now
Posted by Ding Dangalang 2005-11-20 15:17||   2005-11-20 15:17|| Front Page Top

#39 lol PD - remember the saying:

"If it flies, floats or f*&ks, it's cheaper to rent"
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-11-20 15:19||   2005-11-20 15:19|| Front Page Top

#40 MSM will run this sotry afte they see it on al-Jizz
Posted by Crineger Omomoque9485 2005-11-20 15:37||   2005-11-20 15:37|| Front Page Top

#41 So who gets the $25,000,000.00? Our guys?
Posted by Spavitch Flavins2154 2005-11-20 15:45||   2005-11-20 15:45|| Front Page Top

#42 Works for me, SF - they sure as hell earn what we used to call "spot bonuses" - every day. The C-SPAN coverage of the bitch-slap vote brought home to me just how disingenuous the anti-America forces are - and how precious the military and their sense of patriotism truly is. The other side can't even define it, and our people live it. So, hell yessssss, let's stop giving aid and our hard-earned tax dollars to assholes (Dhimmi salaries included, lol) and give it to our military families. Works for me and makes MUCH more sense, since they deserve it.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 15:51||   2005-11-20 15:51|| Front Page Top

#43 More info from DEBKA:

DEBKAfile Exclusive: US forces and forensic experts are examining the bodies of eight high-ranking al Qaeda leaders in Mosul to find out if their chief Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is among them.

November 20, 2005, 8:28 PM (GMT+02:00)

A sample of his DNA is in American possession for a match-up.

The bodies they are trying to identify are of 7 men and one woman, who blew themselves up Sunday, Nov. 20, after their hideout in northern Iraq was under siege by a large US force, backed by tanks and helicopters. The bodies are burned black and unrecognizable. Four Iraqi security officers were killed and 10 injured in the operation.

DEBKAfile’s military sources add that also Sunday, US and Iraqi forces raided al Qaeda sanctuaries in Baghdad and captured several suspects. They followed an intelligence tip which confirmed DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s disclosure (Issue 227 Oct. 28) of the arrival of Zarqawi and his top team to Baghdad on Oct. 15.
Posted by Parabellum 2005-11-20 15:54||   2005-11-20 15:54|| Front Page Top

#44 More from the AP:

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces sealed off a house in the northern city of Mosul where eight suspected al-Qaida members died in a gunfight — some by their own hand to avoid capture. A U.S. official said Sunday that efforts were under way to determine if terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was among the dead...

In Washington, a U.S. official said the identities of the terror suspects killed was unknown. Asked if they could include al-Zarqawi, the official replied: "There are efforts under way to determine if he was killed."

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.

American soldiers maintained control of the site, imposing extraordinary security measures, a day after a fierce gunbattle that broke out when Iraqi police and U.S. soldiers surrounded a house after reports that al-Qaida in Iraq members were inside.

Three insurgents detonated explosives and killed themselves to avoid capture, Iraqi officials said. Eleven Americans were wounded, the U.S. military said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051120/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
Posted by Parabellum 2005-11-20 16:12||   2005-11-20 16:12|| Front Page Top

#45 Gotta a feeling about this. Scuse me while I go warm up the Ululator.
Posted by phil_b 2005-11-20 16:19||   2005-11-20 16:19|| Front Page Top

#46 .com, I could not agree with you more. Anyone who thinks that bedding down with these Arab tyrants is "realpolitik" is nucking futs. Saudi Arabia is the penultimate example of what we can expect from any of these Islamist cesspits. Tons of technology and assistance repaid with the 19 on 9-11. Billions in armaments buys us virulent anti-American Wahabbist textbooks and Pakistani madrasahs full of Talebani.

No amount of backing, military aid or intelligence sharing will change the fact that they all approach reality with a rigid mindset of Arab versus non-Arab. We have, ourselves, become their "useful idiot." They paint us as "The Great Satan" in order to misdirect their peoples' rage from abusive governments like nowhere on earth.

It is most definitely time for quid pro f&%king quo. Only substantial material progress should be greeted with any sort of rewards. Lip service should be met with slammed doors and the choking off of all monetary support. Supposedly more level heads hereabouts will protest that this will only polarize these tinpot dictatorships against us all the more.

GUESS WHAT? Regardless of what they say, do, put in print or play on air, NONE OF THEM ARE OUR FRIENDS. Every single one of these @ssholes has stabbed us in the back at the earliest opportunity while they cheerfully rake in the bounty of our largess.

.com, I am more than glad to advocate what we both know to be true; Namely, that decapping these sh!tpots, one by one, will deliver better results than anything else we can do. Old school realpolitik once dictated that it is "Better the devil we know than one we don't."

THAT CRAP IS OVER WITH FOREVER. Weapons of Mass Destruction have put and end to that out-moded way of thought, permanently! There is no other alternate faction available to be sucked into the power vacuum left behind after whacking Iran's mullahs that could even approach the incredible evil those sanctimonious, genocidal psychotics represent. Even a military junta would be more sensible than the IRG and their twisted clerics.

And so it is with all these other f&%kwit pissholes. As proliferation becomes the norm we are confronted with cutting deals with absolute madmen. North Korea should have been enough to make this crystal clear.

If Islamists refuse to denouce violent jihad, then the gloves MUST come off. Waiting and hoping for things to get better only plays into their hands. We need to make it unbearably hot for any of these perfidious scumbags who want to dick us around.

What has been done to stop the slaughter in Darfur? Zilch. Has there been a single PEEP out of the Arab-ruled countries? Hell no! Yet, lobbing a few cruise missiles into Khartoum's statehouse during a full session would make it clear that genocide has a price tag.

We need to start affixing some very expensive price tags to destabilizing world peace. Trying to sandbag America with the blame for complicating ongoing negotiations with these back-stabbing traitors is merely playing into their hands by giving them the remotest credibility. The United States has done more towards the cause of world peace than all other nations combined. It's time to stop spilling our>/em> blood and, instead, use our fabulous technology to obtain results in a swift and unmistakeable fashion.

Only when these sh!theads find that their life of luxury is about to go up in smoke will they do diddly-squat about changing their ways. France and Spain has shown us what negotiating gets you. Enough of the diplomatic diddling. These Arab tyrannies cannot possibly hate us any more than they already do. We have nothing to lose. Let's make it clear that they have everything to lose.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 16:23||   2005-11-20 16:23|| Front Page Top

#47 Zenster.spot on.
Posted by Ding Dangalang 2005-11-20 16:29||   2005-11-20 16:29|| Front Page Top

#48 I don't know that I'd call bedding down with them a good idea, but they are what's there and I'd think carefully before I did anything that destabilized them all at once. In the review .com recommends, I'd want a priority list of who goes first and who's mostlikely to respond the the example of his neighbor.

It is interesting that we have this discussion of whether or not we've nailed Zarq the same weekend the Zark family takes out ads disowning him. Perhaps Abdullah got the family to give us the secret cell phone number.

I'm also not sure we're ahead of the game to pull the rug out from under Mubarrak and get the Muslim Brotherhood.
Posted by Flock Wheasing2276 2005-11-20 16:38||   2005-11-20 16:38|| Front Page Top

#49 Sheesh. Cleanup on aisle 48.

Harmony, Zen, ya gotta love it, lol.

As we agreed not long ago, no more of this expensive nation-building. Costs too much in great people and treasure. Enough of the beneficiaries, and many of our own, don't appreciate the effort, so that's it. Afghanistan and Iraq. From here on out we decide who are the threats, figure out how to depose them and remove the threat, and they get to try putting it back together. If they fuck up and build another asshat regime, we whack that one, too. Rinse. Repeat. For spot stains, we employ the hunter / killer teams, lots of them. Starting somewhere much close than the M.E., lol.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 16:41||   2005-11-20 16:41|| Front Page Top

#50 J Post is reporting dirt nap for Zarq.

The Elaph Arab media website reported on Sunday that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of the al-Qaida in Iraq terror group, may have been killed in Iraq on Sunday afternoon when eight terrorists blew themselves up in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul.

The unconfirmed report claimed that the explosions occurred while coalition forces surrounded the house in which al-Zarqawi was hiding. American and Iraqi forces are looking into the report.
Posted by Elmetch Hupainter6856 2005-11-20 16:42||   2005-11-20 16:42|| Front Page Top

#51 #48 bgrebel9---your long string of please^N power is screwing up the entire screen on page 1. Shorten it up and put it in several columns or use spaces between the pleases. Thank you for your cooperation.
Posted by Al Aska Paul">Al Aska Paul  2005-11-20 16:50||   2005-11-20 16:50|| Front Page Top

#52 I'd think carefully before I did anything that destabilized them all at once.

Who's saying we should blanket bomb the entire neighborhood? Door to door sales calls will do just fine. I'd expect a little of keeping up with the Jonses once a few of the Smiths vanish not-so-silently in the night.

Yup, .com, the era of nation building is over with. If a country lets itself get overrun with vermin, we'll come in and spray for cockroaches, but they get to wipe down their own kitchen afterwards.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 16:50||   2005-11-20 16:50|| Front Page Top

#53 One other little point I'd like to add: We need to undo something Geo41 did in error, and that's restart the neutron weapon production lines. We may need to employ those team thingys I mentioned to make sure there isn't a problem doing this - and to make certain that the bunker buster program recently sabotaged is reborn. Teamwork is so very useful, don't you think? Lol.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 16:57||   2005-11-20 16:57|| Front Page Top

#54 I am sure glad we did not pull out of Iraq yesterday or we would of never got him.

Posted by airandee 2005-11-20 16:59||   2005-11-20 16:59|| Front Page Top

#55 "Gunmen launch deadly ambush of Marine convoy"

Yeah, 24 dead.

15 Innocent Civilians caught in the explosion and crossfire

8 Bad Guys

1 Marine

Think that headline is "loaded". Asshole Media.
Posted by danking70 2005-11-20 17:01||   2005-11-20 17:01|| Front Page Top

#56 " Zenster.spot on."

I second that emotion.
Posted by doc 2005-11-20 17:11||   2005-11-20 17:11|| Front Page Top

#57 Bravo to .com. Iv'e said before, the Army should be for killing people and breaking things. No more nation building.

This will be misunderstood (itentionally by the moonbats), but here goes.

It is a mistake to teach our enemies that our army is anything other than lethal. They should fear an encounter with ou military.
Posted by SR-71 2005-11-20 17:20||   2005-11-20 17:20|| Front Page Top

#58 Perhaps America needs to develop a Exterior "Police" force for Nation Building?
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2005-11-20 17:23||   2005-11-20 17:23|| Front Page Top

#59 If he hadn't blown them up and threatened His Harleyness, we would receive the usual: dribbles of help for MASSIVE aid

Jordan has been a major logistics transit pipe for the US in Iraq. I don't consider that 'dribbles'.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 17:31||   2005-11-20 17:31|| Front Page Top

#60 Threaten the King of Jordan on Friday and you're dead by Sunday lol! If it was Sparky Zarky, I'm guessing there's lots of truth to that one.

Been a pretty tough week for the Democrats...first the 403-3. Now their beloved hero Zarky...

mmmmm...I like crow pie. (mumble, mumble.. pretty convenient that it was a giant blast.. mumble, mumble).
Posted by 2b 2005-11-20 17:37||   2005-11-20 17:37|| Front Page Top

#61 It seems that King Abdullah of Jordan is better than his dad, Hussain. Remember that Dear Old Dad was on Sammy's side during GW1, as he got all the oil Jordan needed from Sammy. The Arafish was on Sammy's side, too. Wonder how he is doing on the Inferno 3000 chicken rotisseree?
Posted by Al Aska Paul">Al Aska Paul  2005-11-20 17:43||   2005-11-20 17:43|| Front Page Top

#62 I know that the jury's still out on this, lotp, but if Abdullah II was suddenly able to toss Zarq in our lap, how long ago could he have done this? Jordan definitely has been of value, if only as a model for a pluralistic Middle East country. Still, I find it more than a little conspicuous that, within minutes of directly threatening Kingy-Boy, suddenly we're suddenly mopping up what's left of one of al Qaeda's most elusive henchmen. I know that juxtaposition doth not imply sequence, but this one sure seems to be quacking like a duck.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 17:45||   2005-11-20 17:45|| Front Page Top

#63 This would be a hard week for the Dems and the MSM--first the nay vote on withdrawal from Iraq and then the icing of Zark.

If true, Thanksgiving and Christmas come early this year.
Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-20 17:51||   2005-11-20 17:51|| Front Page Top

#64 .com, one more thing... we need to maintain the actionable intelligence networks that AIM and GUIDE the hunter-killer teams.
Posted by Edward Yee 2005-11-20 18:00|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]  2005-11-20 18:00|| Front Page Top

#65 "major logistics transit pipe in Iraq."

Lol, I can read a map. And it means Israel is certainly helping to that same degree - and I have no qualms about dealing with them as a fellow democracy - and our only true WoT ally, though we bicker with them over the methods and means.

We disagree on this topic in general. You can say anything and characterize it any way you like. So what? You believe in the realpolitik game and I don't. Big deal.

EY - And do you actually think we get major actionable intel from Jordan? You can't prove it, and I won't ask you to, but your assumption begs the question: who really helps us and why. I say we can get a much better ROI by cutting loose the sometimes "allies" and pay for play. If the intel pans out, and we bag the desired baddies, then we pay. Got nothing to do with Govts, which yield a shitty return. As Zen says above, and I implied up in #36, why couldn't we have gotten this sort of intel, assuming the story is true, prior to the threats and actions against Jordan? Something's very rotten here. And it's been rotten for decades. It's a lousy game in which we pay heavy dues - and get little in return, and only when it would be in their interest, anyway. If you're getting paid regardless of the level of performance, there's damned little to motivation a better performance. It's called playing to the universal trait: greed.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 18:09||   2005-11-20 18:09|| Front Page Top

#66 Wonder how he is doing on the Inferno 3000 chicken rotisseree?

Interesting question, Al Aska Paul. I particularly like the part below:

Distinctive dual-live flame offers tremendous visual theatre from near and far, creating an alluring atmosphere for your customers.

What I'd give to see Arafat actually bathed in "dual-live flame" as he slowly renders. Boy howdy, talk about "tremendous visual theater"!
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 18:10||   2005-11-20 18:10|| Front Page Top

#67 I am going to have to agree with PD like many have.

I can only hope the the inteligence services of Jordan inteligence arm, who are second to none on the region, put extra effort into getting a location on Zark boy and passed it on. Jordan shares it's inteligence with Israel and the US. They are reliable. It is a good partner in the region in most other instances. No nation is going to put the well being of another nation over its' own. Thats reality.

I hope Zark bought it but will wait for DNA confirmation. Blowing themselves up may have been ment to deprive us of an information bonanza in any case. One of his AQ provided minders may have boomed him without his even knowing it even.
Posted by Sock Puppet O´ Doom 2005-11-20 18:10||   2005-11-20 18:10|| Front Page Top

#68 What would be the coolest thing is to find out the tape that threatened Abdullah was a CIA plant. Too cool!
Posted by badanov 2005-11-20 18:10|| http://www.freefirezone.org/firststrike.html]">[http://www.freefirezone.org/firststrike.html]  2005-11-20 18:10|| Front Page Top

#69 Geez, sorry for the mish-mashed English. Got in a hurry.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 18:10||   2005-11-20 18:10|| Front Page Top

#70 Zenster,

Your are absolutely right!! Jordanians (Palestinians) approved of Zarqawi killing Iraqis and members of the Allied Forces until they became targets of the degerate. Now, all of the sudden, they knew were the SOB was hiding. It remains me of the Saudis...when the vermin were targeting Westerners, they were more than glad to lend them a hand but when they became targets themselves, they were outraged and all of the sudden they were denouncing the terrorists.
Posted by Omesing Thains5521 2005-11-20 18:11||   2005-11-20 18:11|| Front Page Top

#71 I would guess that Zaraqawi got sloppy with a hurried "Sorry, We were supposed to bomb the Bar Mitzvah" taped message.

Posted by danking70 2005-11-20 18:14||   2005-11-20 18:14|| Front Page Top

#72 Poor, poor democrats. They stepped all in it again. Call for immediate withdrawal on Thurday and we kill Zarq on Sunday.

They swift-boated themselves roflmao.
Posted by Evil Elvis 2005-11-20 18:30||   2005-11-20 18:30|| Front Page Top

#73 One of his AQ provided minders may have boomed him without his even knowing it even.

I call this the "Jim Jones Effect" after the speculation that Jonesy-Baby might have been "helped along" when he suddenly displayed some unforeseen reluctance to participate with the rest of his Kool-Aid imbibing ovine bipeds.

One can only hope that Zarq was getting ready to unfurl a white flag when he got a brief glimpse of some underling pulling a thumbswitch out of his robes.

"Hey! That's only for the plebs you mor ..... [kablammo]"

I agree, .com. The sort of return on investment that we're getting is like trying to build a car from scratch by purchasing one part at a time from the local auto shop.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 18:31||   2005-11-20 18:31|| Front Page Top

#74 .com, who you callin' realipolitikeee??? LOL

Never said I like the young King, although he is worlds better than his father. And ... it's not at all clear JORDAN turned in Zarki boy either.

But the fact is that Jordan (an Arab country) HAS been quite helpful on the logistics side of the war. It was pretty widely rumored that SOCOM poured over the border into northern Iraq from Jordanian territory in 2003 and have been finding that border rather useful ever since.

That constitutes a risk on the part of the King and he deserves to have that acknowledged. Jordan isn't the magic kingdom, no matter how much you seem to like to lump them all together.

re: maps: Lots of room to land aircraft in Jordan here and there. Couple a' ports there too ... ones with big US military ships in 'em lately, to the great annoyance of al Q ...
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 18:34||   2005-11-20 18:34|| Front Page Top

#75 Isn't the female homocide bomber who failed to detonate singing???
Posted by bogeybob 2005-11-20 19:01||   2005-11-20 19:01|| Front Page Top

#76 Heard Fox reporting that Zarquawi "might" have assumed room temperature a few minutes ago.
Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-20 19:07||   2005-11-20 19:07|| Front Page Top

#77 I stand by my posts, in toto. Not to replay it, but regards Turkey, you're not realpolotikeee? LOL, indeed.

Sheesh. I detect a moment of convenient relativism here, to make one argument, which is then discarded to make another.

a) No Jordan is not as "bad", or to put it positively, yields a better return than the bogus "Special Relationship" with the Saudis.

b) To then say I lump the two together negates it.

No country is a perfect ally, no question about it. Australia, under Howard, is as close as we will likely ever find. I'd vote for him in 2008, if he'd have us, lol.

The State Dept realpolitik game, used and abused by many before Bush, has saddled us with an amazing collection of accommodations which have, for decades, resulted in mountains of US cash going down a whole slew of rat-holes. Here are the USAID Greenbook and Yellowbook links. The entire lot are definitely overdue for reassessment - many are identifiable as Cold War relics, when keeping certain states out of the Soviet camp was deemed the pre-eminent consideration.

A wholesale review makes real solid sense, to me, anyway. I am disgusted by many of the accommodations we have in place. I believe our words and deeds should match.

That's my point and take.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 19:09||   2005-11-20 19:09|| Front Page Top

#78 And my point is that my friends in the Army would rather not have to fight EVERYWHERE at once.

Little bitty things like being able to bring in food, fuel, vehicles, ammo etc. across the border from Jordan ... it's the sort of thing that makes a soldier's little heart go pit-a-pat.

In fact, at odd moments I've been know to get a bit hot under the collar at people who preach a swaggering foreign policy in all parts of the world at once and then expect my buddies in green to go put their lives on the line to make it happen in unnecessarily complicated ways.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 19:14||   2005-11-20 19:14|| Front Page Top

#79 Isn't the female homocide bomber who failed to detonate singing???

good point. I'm having to reevaluate some of my previous comments. Good thing I like crow pie.
Posted by 2b 2005-11-20 19:16||   2005-11-20 19:16|| Front Page Top

#80 BTW, on-topic, I hope the prick is dead and that it can be proven. That should generate some interesting fallout.

One thing occurred to me (and if someone else has already suggested it I missed it - so I apologize!):

What if, in his dispute with al Zawahiri and the "parent" alQ org, he stepped over the line and THEY set him up?

Wouldn't that be interesting?
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 19:18||   2005-11-20 19:18|| Front Page Top

#81 "Someone set up us the bomb" comes to mind.

Posted by Sock Puppet O´ Doom 2005-11-20 19:25||   2005-11-20 19:25|| Front Page Top

#82 lotp - What? Please clarify and expand. I'm very interested in knowing to whom you're referring - sans the faux cleverness of the manner in which it was written. Say it plain.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 19:26||   2005-11-20 19:26|| Front Page Top

#83 Wasn't Zawahiri the one asking for money? Wouldn't make sense to kill the goose.
Posted by Spons Ulemp7990 2005-11-20 19:29||   2005-11-20 19:29|| Front Page Top

#84 SU - Unless you were refused and ignored.

lotp - Answer.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 19:34||   2005-11-20 19:34|| Front Page Top

#85 The entire lot are definitely overdue for reassessment - many are identifiable as Cold War relics, when keeping certain states out of the Soviet camp was deemed the pre-eminent consideration.

For how evil Soviet communism was (and Chinese communism still is), I am obliged to understand why those deeply flawed relationships were forged back then. I also agree than many, if not most of them, are long overdue for re-evaluation. One of my major points is that the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction has completely changed the entire global equation. Pakistan is a sterling example of this.

Khan and the ISI's treachery has largely converted Pakistan into an enemy. Four years later, we have relatively little to show for the TENS OF BILLIONS of forgiven debt and military spending in Pakistan. By itself, the tension being created with India almost single-handedly outweighs any worth Pakistan has as an ally. Pile atop this the tremendous expenditure we are confronted with in unilaterally containing Iran's nuclear ambitions and Pakistan is little more than a dire foe.

I would cite Egypt as another case. The BILLIONS we pour into them is for what? We put paid to their recognition of Israel long ago and, since then, have been getting pretty much squat. We are now treated to the grim spectacle of Egypt husbanding Palestinian terrorism against Israel. Mubarak's suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood is with more of a mind to maintain his own tenuous grip on power than to assist with our national security aims. Egypt's covert nuclear weapons program well enough puts the lie to that notion.

This same story of opposing ends and thwarted democracy spews forth from so many of these supposed "allies" that America must seek to redefine what really serves its intrests best. Our dalliance with sundry Muslim tyrants demands a whole new system of accounting for the largesse we can no longer afford to strew in our path. Too often, that wealth is diverted towards ends that are wholly opposite our own. Khan forever proved that.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 19:45||   2005-11-20 19:45|| Front Page Top

#86 As I mentioned before, it is almost impossible to think that Zarq linked himself so closely with the failed Jordan boomette that she could subsequently finger him. Those odds appear many places behind the decimal point.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 19:53||   2005-11-20 19:53|| Front Page Top

#87 Excellent exposition, Zen. I agree with the entirety of your post, not that you need my agreement, lol. But well said, indeed.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 19:53||   2005-11-20 19:53|| Front Page Top

#88 I am disgusted by many of the accommodations we have in place. I believe our words and deeds should match.

And I heartily concur, .com. Our leaders, on both sides of the aisle, would do well to heed your advice.

SPECIAL NOTE: This thread epitomizes why I enjoy being here at Rantburg. Such lively and informed discussion of timely world events is one of the few antidotes to the creeping complacency that so threatens America today. I thank all of you, even my detractors.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 20:02||   2005-11-20 20:02|| Front Page Top

#89 Al Aksa Paul and Zen:

Speaking of flame shows, I was watching some History Channel footage, color no less, of Sherman flame-thrower tanks burning out Japanese diehards on Okinawa in 1945. Really impressive and horrific sight; that is, just what Jihadis need to see as they consider our surrender requests.
Flame-tanks haven't been used in many years, but it is my understanding that the Army still holds some in storage (M-60s iirc, not Shermans). It might be time to bring some of these out. It would also defy media standards of acceptability, which would be a bonus.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2005-11-20 20:07||   2005-11-20 20:07|| Front Page Top

#90 Bringing the classic meaning back to fry em up, lol, AC. Indeed the MSM would simply explode.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 20:11||   2005-11-20 20:11|| Front Page Top

#91 If true (big "if"), the bats in Hell are flocking to welcome one of their own.
Posted by Captain America 2005-11-20 20:23||   2005-11-20 20:23|| Front Page Top

#92 lotp - #82 is waiting for a response. It is in reference to your #78. C'mon, you can do it.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 20:24||   2005-11-20 20:24|| Front Page Top

#93 Happy time is over.
You need to find those within these borders that want to attack US.

They are here already and they mean you harm.
Get er done.
Posted by newc">newc  2005-11-20 20:27||   2005-11-20 20:27|| Front Page Top

#94 AC,.com, do either of you remember the Army's CCLAW project? It was a counter civilian tank-based laser designed to blind all unprotected people within sight. Public furor halted further development of the idea.

Back in that time, I arrived at the conclusion (as alluded to by SR-71) that America needed to develop battlefield weapons so horrific and lethal that our enemy's troops would simply refuse to fight against our forces and mutiny. I'm not talking about nerve gas or other slow-death atrocities.

What I want is for American troops to have arms that are so simultaneously irresistible and irreversibly fatal that little if any hope can be held of productively engaging our soldiers. I am sick and tired of our warriors risking precious life and limb against unworthy opponents.

Ramp up those shoulder launched F/A projectiles that selectively collapse buildings. Enhance our precision guided ordnance. Do whatever it takes to instill panic in our foes the instant we appear on the scene. Better yet, as mentioned before, intervene from afar and kill them all in their barracks before they even deploy against us.

The psychotic enemies we face need to be denuded of their fighting age men. Not just to cripple their military forces, but to inhibit genetic reproduction of cultural mindsets that oppose freedom and equality.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 20:29||   2005-11-20 20:29|| Front Page Top

#95 OK - as long as we're all swapping RB spit, I'm in agreement on the above - but I ain't kissing
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-11-20 20:30||   2005-11-20 20:30|| Front Page Top

#96 .com were you refereing to my "set us up the bomb" bit. I was referning to the asonished look on Zarks face as hit saw the flash and heard the boom.

I have a feeling he like so many AQ "true believers"Zarq actually was (I hope past tense to be sure) a coward and would not have "fought to the death." He would have tossed in the towel like many "top leaders" of AQ have. I am sure an AQ person was kept close to him to kill him or blow him to hell is his capture was certain.
Posted by Sock Puppet O´ Doom 2005-11-20 20:35||   2005-11-20 20:35|| Front Page Top

#97 I see the MSM is trying to keep their spirits up. Here is how they are covering it:

White House Doubts al-Zarqawi among dead

I agree - its time to take our gloves off and start fighting these enemies both foreign and domestic. That inclues arresting and trying local enemies such as Ted Kennedy, Mike Al-moore, and yes, perhaps even some of the Republician 'leadershit' (misspelling intentional).
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-11-20 20:39||   2005-11-20 20:39|| Front Page Top

#98 SPo'D, no - I laughed when I read it, though.

I'm waiting for the snide slurs lotp posted in #78
to be clarified. I'm fed up with this faux insider shit. It's beneath a Mod and needs some airing out.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 20:42||   2005-11-20 20:42|| Front Page Top

#99 I hate to burst everyone bubble but the White House is finding this event highly unlikely....
So, what does the White House know that we don't?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/20/iraq.main/index.html

Anyhooo...if this turd died on the Christian Sabbath I find it....just!
Posted by Long Hair Republican">Long Hair Republican  2005-11-20 20:43||   2005-11-20 20:43|| Front Page Top

#100 Your are absolutely right!! Jordanians (Palestinians) approved of Zarqawi killing Iraqis and members of the Allied Forces until they became targets of the degerate. Now, all of the sudden, they knew were the SOB was hiding.

Methinks if Abdullah tried to do anything earlier (had he wanted to), it's likely Jordan would've plunged into chaos. Now the population including the Palestinians is pissed off. Green light for the security services to... encourage... certain people to cough up information.
Posted by Pappy 2005-11-20 20:45||   2005-11-20 20:45|| Front Page Top

#101 Lol, Frank. No tongue? Wimp. ;-)

Zen - Indeed. SR-71 nailed an very important point - and as you say, research is geared toward removing boots on the ground in as many situations as possible - and making opposing us a guaranteed losing proposition. I am in total agreement about making it as horrific as possible, as well - though AC's point about the MSM will make it a massive shitfest. But that's the smallest price for such an effort - the much larger price is that we mourn those who have sacrificed - and will sacrifice in the future.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 20:46||   2005-11-20 20:46|| Front Page Top

#102 But Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said reports of al-Zarqawi's death were "highly unlikely and not credible."

I think I'll wait until after the Fat Lady's performance before I eat my pie.
Posted by 2b 2005-11-20 20:50||   2005-11-20 20:50|| Front Page Top

#103 Pappy - Regards helping us whack Zarqi, and I'm with everyone here about whether this is bogus or bonafide, it should be simple to filter the source so that no one would ever know it came from Jordan, don't you think? I figure it could go through multiple people, unless the timing was ultra-critical - which it may have been.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 20:50||   2005-11-20 20:50|| Front Page Top

#104 Damn, 104 comments without Aris or Mike Sylwester, and we're not even sure he's croaked yet... the suspens is killing me...
Posted by anonymous5089 2005-11-20 20:56||   2005-11-20 20:56|| Front Page Top

#105 Slow news day.
Posted by Thavith Glaiting2310 2005-11-20 20:57||   2005-11-20 20:57|| Front Page Top

#106 Pappy is right about the dynamics among the wider Jordanian populace. And no, it isn't always easy to hide the locale/source of intel while also acting on it - short half life for this sort of thing.

Shouldn't obscure what Abdullah has done as an ally, tho.

Y'all are free to have whatever opinion you want, of course. Mine is based on firsthand accounts by people I know well who have spent time in the region of late - both in Amman and in more sandy places not too far away.
Posted by lotp 2005-11-20 21:20||   2005-11-20 21:20|| Front Page Top

#107 Of course we're free to have differing opinions, we don't need your approval.

Clarify #78. Coward.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 21:26||   2005-11-20 21:26|| Front Page Top

#108 1. Does giving aid to any particular country equate to not having to fight them? Please specify howso. This is a BS strawman and I've got a match.

2. It's unncecessarily complicated NOW. I suggest uncomplicating it. Another strawman, another match.

3. I know about those pit-a-pat goodies and life-giving resources, first-hand, not second-hand. That's three.

4. Swaggering? How is reassessing decades-old accommodations swaggering? How is matching our words and deeds swaggering? Isn't that something the we each should do personally? Can't our Govt live up to that same standard? If not, why not? Four.

5. Your buddies in green? Who do you think you are? You rub shoulders with them in your job and that embues you with their sacrifice and heroism? Pfeh, what utter bullshit. You bask in reflected light. And that's not a tan you're sportin', that's your bullshit level. Five.

Enough. More than enough. Your entire slur post is a strawman. You don't like me or my opinions? Who cares? I'm just tired of it.
Posted by .com 2005-11-20 21:28||   2005-11-20 21:28|| Front Page Top

#109 to certain mods: I'd be careful to assume you know more than contributors who've beem abroad and tasted the bitter Islamic fruit. No offense intended, but existing in Saudi gives reality more than third-hand State and Diplo-Mil reports, from those who wish to promote. Capice?
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-11-20 21:35||   2005-11-20 21:35|| Front Page Top

#110 Does giving aid to any particular country equate to not having to fight them?

You'd bloody well think so. But, as I pointed out about Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, Somalia .... Hell, give them money, are they grateful? No they're spiteful and they're hateful. [big grin]

I'm just sick of having to undo what our own money has been spent on doing by these loons.
Posted by Zenster 2005-11-20 21:36||   2005-11-20 21:36|| Front Page Top

#111 one must cross one's fingers.
Posted by 3dc 2005-11-20 21:43||   2005-11-20 21:43|| Front Page Top

#112 Zenster - with your last post.... I hear a song in your words.... something like
THIS!
Posted by 3dc 2005-11-20 21:58||   2005-11-20 21:58|| Front Page Top

23:53 DMFD
23:50 C-Low
23:49 DMFD
23:46 Rafael
23:42 .com
23:33 Zenster
23:21 Zenster
23:10 2b
23:05 John Q. Citizen
23:00 Edward Yee
22:55 John Q. Citizen
22:53 Justrand
22:49 Ptah
22:42 Sock Puppet O´ Doom
22:41 Eric
22:39 Long Hair Republican
22:30 Monsieur Moonbat
22:28 Zenster
22:23 2b
22:19 John Q. Citizen
22:15 BillH
22:11 John Q. Citizen
22:03 JosephMendiola
21:58 3dc









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