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2005-11-25 Home Front: WoT

US in move that may bar foreign researchers

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Posted by lotp 2005-11-25 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 WTF this is definatley one of those rules that you just thought was already on the books becuase it is "common sense".

I would hope that common sense would say for any scientist working on sensitive tech would be US citizen and if only a convert, 1st gen, or even 2nd gen, they would be heavily monitored continously something that if they are real patirots would not mind everyone gots to do thier time right. I also believe the ones that are citizens even many generations should be heavily checked out and also with random checks and monitoring.

Posted by C-Low 2005-11-25 00:21|| 2005-11-25 00:21|| Front Page Top

#2 and if only a convert, 1st gen, or even 2nd gen, they would be heavily monitored continously something that if they are real patirots would not mind

It seems to me that it might irk the real "patirot" even more, when their "patirotism" is questioned in such a degree as to discriminate against them and against their children, and against their children's children.

Restrictions against non-citizens, okay. But I think that dividing your own citizens between trustworthy and untrustworthy classes is the best way possible to ensure that the latter *truly* become such. A self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-11-25 02:00|| 2005-11-25 02:00|| Front Page Top

#3 dividing your own citizens between trustworthy and untrustworthy classes

It's done all the time and should be done all the time. Do you think a person who keeps failing polygraph tests should be handling top secret documents at the CIA? In addition, there are those supposedly *trustworthy* citizens who would sell their country for 30 pieces of silver.

The problem is, how do you separate the two classes? You don't. Everyone is given the benefit of the doubt...until they screw up.

Posted by Rafael 2005-11-25 03:05|| 2005-11-25 03:05|| Front Page Top

#4 Everyone is given the benefit of the doubt...

That is, everyone without a criminal record or some other discrepancies in their background.

Posted by Rafael 2005-11-25 03:08|| 2005-11-25 03:08|| Front Page Top

#5 General prejudice is useless. A Chinese used-car dealer is no threat now, and almost certainly wouldn't be a threat even if and when the US gets into a conflict with China. Chinese people will invariably suffer because of idiots after hostilities, though. Unjust, but unavoidable.

That being said, however, the Chinese government has built enclaves in many US cities, often under the guise of "cultural centers", that are only thinly veiled espionage centers.

We are also aware of *hundreds* of Chinese front companies, who are legitimate businesses, but are also used to glean restricted information. These have got to be supressed.

And while there are a vast number of Chinese students in the US, several reasonable changes have to be made. First of all, academic exclusion of non-Chinese by Chinese is as repugnant and unacceptable as any other racist exclusion. It is highly unlikely that *every* acceptable graduate student for a program has been Chinese for 10 years.

The government must create a very long list of sensitive positions in government, industry and academia. Prioritized, the top of the list is marked "no ethnic Chinese", plain and simple. The next level is "no naturalized Chinese". The third is "no Chinese citizen". The fourth just excludes ethnic Chinese without typical security clearances, like everybody else.

A separate list must also be created for removal of Chinese from sensitive positions in the event of projected hostilities. Again prioritized, but based on degree of hostility, and anticipated timetable for hostile action. If it is a slow build up, then only slowly act; if hostilities commence quickly, with little warning, then pink slips go out immediately, passwords and door locks are changed.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-11-25 08:02|| 2005-11-25 08:02|| Front Page Top

#6 But I think that dividing your own citizens between trustworthy and untrustworthy classes is the best way possible to ensure that the latter *truly* become such. A self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

Yep, each time a gas station makes me pay in advance, I never shop there again, I notice that now that prices are coming down, those stations are deserted while the other "Honest" stations are buisy.

Looks like others feel the same way I do.
You think like thieves, you lose.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2005-11-25 08:30|| 2005-11-25 08:30|| Front Page Top

#7 The government must create a very long list of sensitive positions in government, industry and academia. Prioritized, the top of the list is marked "no ethnic Chinese", plain and simple. The next level is "no naturalized Chinese". The third is "no Chinese citizen". The fourth just excludes ethnic Chinese without typical security clearances, like everybody else.

Highest level is No Slopes? Come on 'moose.

Posted by Shipman 2005-11-25 09:13|| 2005-11-25 09:13|| Front Page Top

#8 Geez! How are FBI agents gonna meet hot chinese babes now?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-11-25 10:56|| 2005-11-25 10:56|| Front Page Top

#9 moosey cut way down on the msg plz.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-11-25 15:35|| 2005-11-25 15:35|| Front Page Top

#10 Shipman: it is the same ugly problem that was presented at the start of the WoT. That is, that enemy combatants and the people who support them cannot be allowed to proceed through the normal judicial system. It is too hard to prove criminal acts quickly enough to prevent disaster. That is why we have Gitmo and other such places.

Now, this is not so extreme as talking about concentration camps or things like that, but the same principal applies. Call it racial profiling if you like, but when the US absolutely, positively needs security in tens of thousands of critical jobs overnight, we do not have the resources to constantly and intently survey perhaps hundreds or thousands of people who might be spies, just because they are Chinese.

And, as opportunity presents itself, only a tiny handful of Chinese spies would not be ethnically Chinese. So by removing ethnically Chinese people from just certain jobs for the duration of hostilities, we get much better national security.

Now, this does not mean that they would be forbidden to work, or even to work in their field. Just that they could not work in particular, sensitive jobs, or at critical, essential facilities.

Now, for the tiny number of ethnically Chinese whose only expertise is in nuclear submarine electronic countermeasures, or anti-satellite ground based high energy weapons, things are just tough all over. And unless they are so irreplaceable that we are willing to have them spied upon constantly, which in some cases we just might be willing to do, they need to cross-train their specialty anyway.

I wrote that there would be a need for several security levels. This is just the harshest. The next level, that of naturalized American citizens of Chinese ethnicity, could on the surface be seen as far more reasonable from a security standpoint, and yet, practically speaking, how different is it from the most stringent job exclusions? Not very.

If there is a slow build-up to hostilities, America will be a very different place. The vast number of Chinese students attending school in the US will drop to nothing. "Chinatowns" around the country, and Americans who are ethnically Chinese will be under a lot of pressure. There will be crackdowns on Chinese "Cultural Centers" and businesses that front for Chinese "concerns".

China, for its part, will be far more repressive in those times and circumstances.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-11-25 16:20|| 2005-11-25 16:20|| Front Page Top

#11 Someday Frank, you and I are gonna have a long discussion on the meaning of "hot chinese babes". That and vision test standards for FBI agents.
Katrina Leung

Posted by ed 2005-11-25 16:43|| 2005-11-25 16:43|| Front Page Top

#12 Now, this is not so extreme as talking about concentration camps or things like that, but the same principal applies.

Yep.

Posted by Shipman 2005-11-25 17:00|| 2005-11-25 17:00|| Front Page Top

#13 I know a guy, with access to really top secret stuff who has a chinese girlfriend that he enjoys photographing with other women. It's not really a secret from those who work with him and they like sharing their pictures. I'm sure he just thinks he's a fun and sexy guy. Nobody seems to put two and two together on this one - and I'm not in any position to do anything about it cause I heard it all second and third hand. But it just amazes me that something so obvious can hide in plain sight. Sigh. Security clearances are a joke too. We need to take this stuff much more seriously.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-25 17:17|| 2005-11-25 17:17|| Front Page Top

#14 well, Ed, remember they started 20 yrs ago.....she mighta been Lucy Liu-like at the time

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-11-25 17:56|| 2005-11-25 17:56|| Front Page Top

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