Article

2007-12-06 Afghanistan

Marines in Afghanistan would be threat to Air Force

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2007-12-06 09:55|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top
File under: Taliban

#1 In WW2 they pretty much gave the Marines/Navy the Pacific Theater and the Army/Army Air Corps the European Theater. I'm not sure why we don't do that sort of thing now.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-06 13:31|| 2007-12-06 13:31|| Front Page Top

#2 Probably because there's a lot of ocean in the Pacific, not much in eurasia.(Unless you count "Oceans of Sand")

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-12-06 14:05|| 2007-12-06 14:05|| Front Page Top

#3 Marines in Afghanistan would be threat to Air Force

Hey, the Marines are a threat to everything! :-)

Posted by gorb 2007-12-06 14:11|| 2007-12-06 14:11|| Front Page Top

#4 With the Army getting armed UAVs and the Marines taking care of their own aviation, the Air Force is ending up with transports and a lot of expensive, stealthy, Hanger Queens.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2007-12-06 15:13|| 2007-12-06 15:13|| Front Page Top

#5 The Navy has been working in both Iraq and Afghanistan despite the lack of water in those areas.

I'm talking primarily about the Army/Marine overlap. Let them each take an area of operations and let the Navy/Airforce help a bit but mostly be ready for events elsewhere.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-06 16:17|| 2007-12-06 16:17|| Front Page Top

#6 GB is more on target than he thinks. The Air Force has been run by the fighter pilot mafia for lo these many years and unfortunately for them, no one stepped up to fill the void left by the collapse of the Soviet Union. The AF has been steadily shrinking since 1989 and its aircraft are aging. The Air Staff wants more people and more new airplanes. The problem for them is that the F-15C can hold its own against just about anything that flies, making it very difficult to buy F-22s. Every year the AF goes through contortions trying to get rid of "old" aircraft like the U-2, F-117, A-10, F-15, C-141, and C-5 to free up dollars to fund the "recapitalization" of the force. And every year Congress says thank you and just reduces the AF budget. Recapitalization, at least the way HqAF wants it, ain't gonna happen. Too much money is needed to fund the expansion of the Army and the Marine Corps. One visible sign of this is that the F-22 line is getting ready to go cold. The only reason the F-35 program is continuing is that the political support (both foreign and domestic) for it is breathtaking.

Add the pressure from the UAV (or UAS depending on the phase of the moon) advocates and the AF is desperate need of a mission to justify its continued existence as something other than a uniformed air transport service and its budgets.

Posted by RWV 2007-12-06 16:43|| 2007-12-06 16:43|| Front Page Top

#7 Well the USAF could take over maned space flight from the NASA guys.

Posted by 3dc 2007-12-06 21:00|| 2007-12-06 21:00|| Front Page Top

#8 That makes too much sense, 3dc. And then you'ld have all the anti-military types crying about the militarization of Space. As if there will never be conflict there if we ever develope more extra-earth capabilities.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2007-12-06 21:40|| 2007-12-06 21:40|| Front Page Top

#9 some officials in the Air Force expressed private fears that its mission in Afghanistan could be ended if the mission went to the Marines, who deploy with their own tactical fighter and attack combat aircraft.

Maybe it's because the Marines don't like having to set up a fly-in appointment two weeks in advance with a bunch of 'zooomies' who view close-air-support as menial labor?

Posted by Pappy 2007-12-06 22:01|| 2007-12-06 22:01|| Front Page Top

#10 I dont know that the Marines are the right fit for Afghanistan. Its more of a special ops environment. And Masrines dont do that. They are light infantry. Plus their helicopters dont work well at the higher altitudes, bringing into question mobility, compared to Army Airmobile units like the 101 or army Light Infantry brigades with support for the divisional helicopter brigade, or USAF Special trained and equipped airlift. And the Army is trained to fight at altitude and in the mountains, They are specialized for it. The Marines, for the most part are not - their mountain trianing facility is not comparable to those beigade sized areas the Army has in Colorado and Ft Drum NY.

Add in the apache vs the Marines older attack helicopter, and you get the feeling that Afghanistan is the Marines way to get new equipment.

Not to mention as we draw down, the Marines will get pulled first, becuase they are needed in the pacific in the event of a collapse in NKor, Chinese misadventures, or Iran going nuts and attacking us.

Regarding Iraq, Marines "reach over beach" is better than any Army attack overland from Iraq/Afghanistan in terms of quickly getting to sensitive targets - Marines and carriers off shore is a hell of a threat to a lot if Irnaian sensitive targets, and possibly enouhg to prevent a war.

So there are other good arguments for keeping the Marines in Iraq and not moving them into Afghansitan.

The Airforce has always been a pain in the ass when it comes to ground support - look at their tryign to scrap whats arguably the best airframe for this war supporting the poor bloody infantry: the A-10. When they tried to ditch those and go to F16s, the Army threatened to pick them up and the UASF screamed bloody blue murder.

USAF needs to be split - give the ground support mission back to the US Army Air Corps. The Zoomies cna have the missles, strategic bombers and fighters that they love so much.

Nothing against the FACS or PJs - ballsy guys there. But the fighter mafia is a buncha pricks who are screwing the USAF out of good airframes.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-12-06 23:33|| 2007-12-06 23:33|| Front Page Top

23:37 gorb
23:33 OldSpook
23:26 www
23:23 www
23:05 flushing_kenny
22:54 3dc
22:48 3dc
22:30 Barbara Skolaut
22:26 3dc
22:18 Danielle
22:10 Barbara Skolaut
22:06 John Kerry
22:01 Pappy
21:56 Frank G
21:50 SteveS
21:46 Deacon Blues
21:40 Deacon Blues
21:28 Deacon Blues
21:24 Eric Jablow
21:19 Sock Puppet of Doom
21:18 Sock Puppet of Doom
21:12 Eric Jablow
21:08 Eric Jablow
21:02 Old Patriot