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2003-05-19 Europe

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Posted by Baba Yaga 2003-05-19 07:30 pm|| || Front Page|| [9 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I always thought Germans were fiscally responsible.....what the hell happened??

It's called "socialism". It's still alive and well in modern Germany. The unemployment rate went through the roof following reunification, and all the unprofitable businesses of East Germany were shut down or phased out, and the polluting industries were forced to meet envirnomental standards imposed slowly over time in the West, but slapped on East German companies in a matter of months. The so-called "free trade" agreements were the death knell to many of Europe's smaller businesses, especially family-run ones. There was also a huge new bureaucracy to pay for in the "United Europe" of the European Union. Add a worldwide economic retrenchment that can be blamed on "insecurity" caused by a rise in world terrorism, and the financial, social, cultural, and political impact (global, not just in the US, or New York) of 9/11. Germany has a stratified, virtually untouchable social welfare system that is totally unresponsive to real-world pressures. You've got a system that's being pounded on the left by social demands, and on the right by economic reality. Think "Weimar Republic, 1922". You wouldn't be far off. ALso remember what THAT led to 15 years later...

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-05-19 22:18:51|| 2003-05-19 22:18:51|| Front Page Top

#2 I'd agree with most of your analysis, Old Patriot, except for the Weimar part. This time Germany is a profoundly democratic country and we are talking "misery" at highest level... means people still are very well off. An unemployed German might have more money than an American working two badly paid jobs. The extreme right occasionally gets her moment of glory in a country parliament, only to be voted out next time because they have nothing to offer but hate propaganda.
The real problem with the social system here is not that it es extremly socialist but that it is extremly bureaucratic. Streamline organization, radically reform the tax system, promote individual retirement plans, cut a few holidays, work 40 hours a week and stop the whining... and we would be back on track.
We came back from the dead, we will come back from some illness, too.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-05-20 07:57:51|| 2003-05-20 07:57:51|| Front Page Top

#3 While I sympathise, TGA and I think it unfair to only think about what Weimar led to in Germany (could have happened anywhere), I do think the comparison between today's German society and Weimar to have a few close parallels.

Obviously hyper-inflation isn't one of them.

However I would say that Germany WAS profoundly democratic under Weimar.

It is one of the reasons many Jews/others didn't try to get out of Germany till it was way too late.

Weimar Germany was probably THE most progressive, liberal society on the planet in its day.

This should serve as a warning to all of us 'enlightened' modern citizens of liberal democracies.

Eternal vigilance.. y'know the rest.

The left in particular should have a long hard think about this. After all, the nazis started out as the national SOCIALIST party. And given the fascistic tendencies of a lot of the left, wanting to rule by the mob on the street, wanting to overrule decisions made by elected representatives, pursuing witch-hunt campaigns to eliminate political enemies yadda yadda yadda.

Though this is NOTHING compared with the big guys like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, eternal vigilance means everyone being aware all the time.

Posted by Anon1 2003-05-20 09:08:14|| 2003-05-20 09:08:14|| Front Page Top

15:48 Peter North
09:08 Anon1
07:57 True German Ally
07:56 ----------<<<<-
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06:59 Ptah
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02:45 Lihu
00:45 Steve White
00:45 Phil B
00:27 R. McLeod
00:09 Brian
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00:00 Mike Kozlowski
23:36 Bomb-a-rama
22:37 Mark IV
22:26 Old Patriot
22:18 Old Patriot
21:40 Old Patriot
21:39 Watcher
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21:04 eLarson