Article

2004-04-22 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by Steve 2004-04-22 9:36:15 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Damn. Missed him again.

Posted by RWV 2004-04-22 9:55:42 AM|| 2004-04-22 9:55:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Anyone have any idea how much rail stock the NorKs have? Looks like they have at least two lines running to the Chinese border, with a third to the Russian border that probably can double in a pinch, so an accident on any one line won't cut their communications with their Chinese fuel supplies.

I thought they had pipelines over the border? Isn't hauling gas by train somewhat inefficient?

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-04-22 10:10:47 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-04-22 10:10:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Maybe Kim should travel by oxcart from now on.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-04-22 10:12:39 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:12:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Okay, so what's a BLEVE

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-22 10:17:44 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:17:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 from the MLK, Jr. speech: "I BLEVE"

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-22 10:33:27 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:33:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I just got a newsflash saying there where 3000+ dead, no conf. yet.

Posted by Evert Visser in NL 2004-04-22 10:34:35 AM|| [http://srv.fotopages.com/?o=867551&t=2] 2004-04-22 10:34:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I'll bet there's a fairly brutal purge going on right now. There's no way, Kim will interpret this as an accident -- and maybe he's right.

Posted by Patrick Phillips 2004-04-22 10:46:30 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:46:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 BLEVE=Boiling liquid/explosive vapor explosion. Same thing as an FAE but bigger.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-22 10:48:24 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:48:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 SEOUL (Reuters) - Up to 3,000 people were killed or injured in a huge explosion on Thursday when two goods trains collided in a North Korean station hours after leader Kim Jong-il had passed through, South Korea's YTN television station said. Yonhap news agency also said there were thousands of casualties. Both Yonhap and YTN did not give a breakdown of deaths and injuries.

Shit, it happened right in a crowded station. Oh, BLEVE = Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. Think fuel air explosive.

Posted by Steve 2004-04-22 10:50:45 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:50:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I still like mine better ;-)

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-22 10:50:59 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:50:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Better definition: BLEVE
Under rapid heating (for example, from a pool fire engulfing the tank), a tank containing pressurized liquid may fail suddenly producing an explosive effect. The liquid in the tank absorbs energy from the surrounding fire and heats up rapidly. The resulting increased rate of vaporization produced increases the ullage pressure. When this pressure exceeds a certain limit (characteristic of the material properties of the tank wall, wall thickness and temperature), the tank fails. The liquid released from the tank boils rapidly and expands. The resulting explosion may fragment the tank into pieces and propel them over large distances. If the hazmat is flammable, it may ignite and form a fireball posing additional hazard. This phenomenon is called a BLEVE or Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

Posted by Steve 2004-04-22 10:54:16 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:54:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Has anybody actually seen Kimmie since the accident?

Posted by DG 2004-04-22 10:55:51 AM|| 2004-04-22 10:55:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Kim is crazy enough to think it is a CIA plot even though it probably isn't. After the soberng meeting in China, he might have gotten some emphasis not to go Nuclear. Or at least he thinks that's what is going on.

"But I am the Dear Leader and everybody loves me."

NOT !

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-22 11:02:32 AM|| 2004-04-22 11:02:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Sounds like a bona-fide Sea Of Fire.

Posted by Lux 2004-04-22 11:04:40 AM|| 2004-04-22 11:04:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Reports of North Korea declaring a state of emergency...

Standard disaster style or paranoid military style?

Posted by Lux 2004-04-22 11:40:46 AM|| 2004-04-22 11:40:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Lux, do you have any idea how hard it is to get coffee out a keyboard?

Posted by RWV 2004-04-22 12:16:31 PM|| 2004-04-22 12:16:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 There is still nothing official from the NORKs claiming a deliberate act, but their sympathizers in the west are in full tin-foil mode.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-22 12:34:59 PM|| 2004-04-22 12:34:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 ...Y'know, I'm going to suggest something here.
You gotta believe that NorkNukes(TM)can't be built to the same standards of safety and control as ours. I wonder if it wasn't an honest accident with a weapons train that resulted in a fizzle...

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-04-22 1:00:07 PM|| 2004-04-22 1:00:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Here's a question for the "engineering" student in "Palestine" that wanted HIV blood tainted bombs for the infitada against the Jews:

If a train leaves Saigon at 12 am and is travelling north at 120 mph and another train is heading south out of NKor at 130 mph and they both contain fuel.....awwww, it's not even worth the joke. Must feel sorry for the innocents there at that station though. I'm sure it'll be blamed on the CIA (if so, they're getting better).

Posted by BA 2004-04-22 1:27:28 PM|| 2004-04-22 1:27:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 I'm wondering if it was seismic enough to be recorded in Japan.

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-22 2:01:42 PM|| 2004-04-22 2:01:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Watch the southies. if they dont react, its just an item of interest. If the southies start to get jumpy, then this might be the first step in a bigger move.

( anyone know the displacement of our AEGIS crusiers in the pacific?)

Yes - Kimmie is likely to think that this was JDAM into a train station, but hes also got to wonder if the Chinese had anything to do with it. its being reported that it occured on the chinese and Korean borders.

Now - in a country where its in famine and even the well off areas are barely getting by, how does it screw things up to lose a main railway link to their only remaining trading partner?

One other thing, Dictators rule because people believe they are in change, if the people of NKOR begin to doubt the great leader, look out.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 2:49:42 PM|| 2004-04-22 2:49:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 I'm leaning more toward Kozlowski on this one. The first thing that popped in my head after seeing 3000 killed was that it was a weapon accident. Thats REALLY allot of people. How could a train blow up that big?

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-04-22 3:23:52 PM|| 2004-04-22 3:23:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Hmmm - Is anybody on the Chinese border monitoring for radiation in case Kozlowski has stumbled onto something?

Inquiring minds want to know!

But prevaling winds, west to east, should have some Japanese hopping in a day or two if something is really bad, and censors start to pick up a pop-pop-pop...

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-22 3:33:36 PM|| 2004-04-22 3:33:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I think K-man is on to something here, Ryongchong is near the nulcear weapons labs taht were being monitored!

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 4:04:54 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:04:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 So Kimmy rolled through there about 9 hrs earlier? Wonder if he got out to offer that famous Kimmy "field guidance" on how to run the railroads?
Sure does sound like it.

Posted by tu3031 2004-04-22 4:13:57 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:13:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 ~~click~~

Posted by Rawsnacks 2004-04-22 4:20:31 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:20:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Kimmies whereabouts in the past few days:
( registration required)

Summary:
China hopes that this week's visit, reported in the South Korean media, will help facilitate a third round of six-party talks by late June involving the two Koreas, China, the United States, Japan and Russia. These negotiations, organized by Beijing, are aimed at eliminating Pyongyang's nuclear weapons.

Kim, who rarely appears in public in North Korea, let alone abroad, is said to love French Cognac, cinema and fine food and usually travels by train because he is afraid of flying.

Such an impressive seven-car private train, reportedly with more than 40 North Korean officials, should be hard to miss. A call to the Beijing Railway Station, however, turned up little.

Private train to China? Train accident on main trunk line from China? Coincidence,Agent Scully?

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 4:21:40 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:21:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Heres a picture of the "special train":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3637787.stm

more info on the meeting this week between Kimmie and China.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 4:23:59 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:23:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Rawsnacks' link to the Army moves to Japan is indeed timely

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-22 4:25:44 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:25:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Maps of NKOR nuclear facilities:
http://www.nti.org/db/profiles/dprk/nuc/e1_nkorea_mapheu.html

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 4:34:43 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:34:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Spread the wealth:

http://cns.miis.edu/research/korea/
I cant make head or tails out of these korean names, anyone care to dig in here and try to find the exact location of this ex-railway station and correlate it to one of these facilities?

One interesting note I've found is some suspicion of an underground nuclear faciility up in the end of the country:

http://www.nti.org/db/profiles/dprk/nuc/fac/other/NKN_F_kumcha_GO.html

but again, outside of the damn USA today fisher-price style map, I cant find out how close this is to the ex-railyard.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 4:41:02 PM|| 2004-04-22 4:41:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Ok, I wonder if we are getting "gaslighted" here - I cant find any previous reference on this town - ever!

I can find any map reference either. Im pouring over US military histories to see if this name ever turns up, and Im getting bubkus.

Link
Another link

now - as far as we can tell - an explosion near a railway between Pyongyang and the Chinese border has occured. The press is reporting it as:

"The area around Ryongchon station has turned into ruins as if it were bombarded," Yonhap quoted witnesses as saying. "Debris from the explosion soared high into the sky and drifted to Sinuju," a North Korean town on the border with China, it said.

Cho Sung-dae, a Yonhap correspondent in Beijing, said his reports were based on residents in the Chinese border city of Dandong who talked with their relatives in Ryongchon

according to this account, Ryongchon is 12 miles from the chinese border, on the rail line from Dandong.

Damned if I can find though......

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 5:04:04 PM|| 2004-04-22 5:04:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 List of known (public domain) North Korean nuclear sites

Posted by Lux 2004-04-22 5:08:54 PM|| 2004-04-22 5:08:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 thx lux - I found it:
http://globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/sinuiju.htm

at the bottom of the map. sinuiju - the larger town of which "yongchon" is a railstop, on the border is also a site for a chemical weapons site.

why a railstop out on there?

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 5:23:22 PM|| 2004-04-22 5:23:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Map of North Korea with cities

Note Ryongchon in the far Northwest near the border woth China. Kumchangni fom Lux's posting seems fairly close. Yongbyon, which is the most talked of seems not all that far, but is not marked on the full map. It seems to be near the city of Unjon on the Chongchon River.

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-22 5:29:05 PM|| 2004-04-22 5:29:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 regarding the sinuiju plant. It makes something called "vinylon", which sounds like it has all the charm of cheap imitation naugahyde without the cruel indiginity of skinning the ferocious "nauga-bats".

excerpted from globalsecurty.org:

The government has called for accelerating the expansion projects at both the Siniju and Ch'ngjin chemical fiber complexes. Vinylon textile (100,000 tons) made from "Anthracite coal + limestone", and viscous textile made from timber and reed occupy an 88% share of total production capacity. On the other hand, because Vinylon is hard to dye and shrinks after washing, and viscous textile generates poisonous gas and waste water during its processing, they are treated as inferior to those of advanced countries. The planned annual output target for chemical fibers in the Third Seven-Year Plan is 225,000 tons while the output for synthetic resin and plasticizer is targeted at 500,000 tons. Foreign estimates placed the output of chemical fibers in 1990 at 177,000 tons.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 6:04:23 PM|| 2004-04-22 6:04:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Its there, its a real town. And there is a fairly large industrial capacity in the area. And I bet the Norks are pretty careless when it comes to public safety.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-22 6:31:17 PM|| 2004-04-22 6:31:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 There has never been a train accident that caused anything like this number of casualties. There is (much) more to this than a simple train crash. I suspect a coup attempt, possibly backed by China.

BBC is reporting Norks have declared a state of emergency.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-22 6:36:59 PM|| 2004-04-22 6:36:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 oooPPs

Posted by Marvin 2004-04-22 7:10:19 PM|| 2004-04-22 7:10:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 The Sun has just come up over there, I suspect we will get much more information today, but I dont expect we will hear anything from the NKORS at all.

If this is an industrial rail stop, I understand the accident, but I cant understand the high loss of life. This is one of three rail routes into NKOR, so 1/3 of the carrying capacity from China to NKOR has been somewhat diminished. This is going to have a big impact on a country already stressed.

I wish we could be certain of the source of the info on this. Train accident, Chemical Factory explosion, its all more news out of the this hell hole than we've had for sometime.

If I remember right, Chernobyl wasnt reported by the Soviets as a nuclear accident until the euros started noticing their gieger counters hopping around, then they only admitted what they had to.

I suspect that marxists the world wide operate the same way.

To see what Chernobyl looks like today:
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 7:15:30 PM|| 2004-04-22 7:15:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 Frank Martin - My point EXACTLY in #23.

But prevaling winds, west to east, should have some Japanese hopping in a day or two if something is really bad,

My Russian-born Small-Business-Owning Republican Wife has a few interesting invectives about the way Chernobyl was handled.

This will be an interesting "ballet" to watch be played out.

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-22 7:34:26 PM|| 2004-04-22 7:34:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 according to yonhap (south korean news) Debris from the explosion soared high into the sky and drifted to Sinuju," a North Korean town on the border with China, it said. Cho Sung-dae, a Yonhap correspondent in Beijing, said his reports were based on residents in the Chinese border city of Dandong

So, I'd say that surface winds are from south to the north. I dont know if the Chinese would "out" the NKORS if this is a "chernobyl" event. My guess is we have 48 hours before anything will show up in the air in russia or japan. If I remember, The initial Chernobyl reports did not start with the admission that it was a nuclear plant, they sort of crawled up slowly after the Scandanavians began to detect radioactive debris.

If this is anything but a rail accident or a chemical factory event, it will be very interesting indeed. 1/3 of all Chinese rail traffic to NKOR passes through here.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 8:23:09 PM|| 2004-04-22 8:23:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Foxnews - reporting that NKOR is asking for help with rescue.

1) They are keeping it in the family.
2) The numbers are about to climb.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 8:31:10 PM|| 2004-04-22 8:31:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Reuters reported that residents of Pyongyang reached by telephone had said that there was nothing unusual in the capital. North Korean television was broadcasting military songs and music â standard evening fare.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 8:42:59 PM|| 2004-04-22 8:42:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Here is a list of major train accidents over the last 100 years. It is an interesting 'coincident' that within a couple of months 2 members of the axis of evil have had a major train explosion. You have to go back almost 50 years to find a comparable 'accident'.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-22 8:54:47 PM|| 2004-04-22 8:54:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 so, if this is a train accident, its either the worlds biggest train, or a commuter train station at the biggest rush hour in the history of Korea.

I wonder where the 3,000 number comes from? and how it was estimated.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 9:14:08 PM|| 2004-04-22 9:14:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Debris from the explosion soared high into the sky and drifted to Sinuju
Mmmm1The weather is strong winds out of the north. I.e. there is no way winds have blown debris north for any distance. There is something fishy here.

Also the BBC is showing a satellite pic of dark balck cloud of smoke. Although the dingbats didn't give a scale on pic. So it could be a picture of someone burning garbage in their back yard.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-22 9:30:35 PM|| 2004-04-22 9:30:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 NBC:
NBC News, quoting a source who had seen new satellite photographs of the site, reported that the explosion took place inside the Yangsi railroad yard. It appeared to have flattened large apartment buildings in a nearby civilian area.

The source described âa big explosion, leaving a large area of damage and flat space. It has taken down multiple-story apartment buildings. Many were damaged or destroyed.â

Ok, numbers now make sense, a somewhat reliable source on the info makes me relax. Now, its time to start an office pool on the when Kimmie will make a public appearance or address to the populace.

NKOR Chernobyl theory is Now Deactivated.
Chinese Assassination attempt is Now Active.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-22 11:13:44 PM|| 2004-04-22 11:13:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Chinese Assassination attempt is Now Active.

well, then, someone's gonna have to explain why the blast was a friggin' 9 hrs after "Mr. Poofy Hair" went thru then, no?

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-22 11:20:41 PM|| 2004-04-22 11:20:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Had their watch set to U.S. Pacific time perhaps?

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-04-22 11:34:30 PM|| 2004-04-22 11:34:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 I wonder where the 3,000 number comes from? and how it was estimated.

If it's like a lot of other Asian countries, there will be housing built up against the right of way and railyards. I suspect the NKOR construction methods aren't all that good. And if it was a botched attempt at Kim, their assassins aren't all that hot either.

Posted by Pappy 2004-04-22 11:59:40 PM|| 2004-04-22 11:59:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 How do we know they didnt get him? Until I see new footage or a speech, we may consider that he might be right in the middle of the rubble.

Posted by Frank Martin 2004-04-23 12:53:28 AM|| 2004-04-23 12:53:28 AM|| Front Page Top

08:24 Jen
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00:53 Frank Martin
00:15 RWV
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23:59 Pappy
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