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2005-10-14 Science & Technology
EU threatens to break INTERNET next month
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Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 01:10|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Simple, just change "WWW" to "WWW minus EU".
Let those elitists talk among themselves.
If those bureaucrats ever come up with something worthwhile, then they can set the rules.
Sorry, to our Rantburg buddies in Europe.
Posted by GK 2005-10-14 01:24||   2005-10-14 01:24|| Front Page Top

#2 Businesses are going to *love* this. Some businesses cannot operate without an E.U. <-> U.S. link.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Posted by  CrazyFool 2005-10-14 01:25||   2005-10-14 01:25|| Front Page Top

#3 Will the network be unbroken?
By and by Lord, by and by,
There's a better homepage waitin'
On the sly, Lord, on the sly.
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2005-10-14 01:39||   2005-10-14 01:39|| Front Page Top

#4 Okay, I'll bite, since it wasn't the EU who developed the Net in the first place, and are NOT the ones predomin paying for it, etc. how are they gonna break the Net given that its America that dominates SPAWAR!? Americans are willing to share but there's still such a twang as "first come, first serve", aka FIFO!? Even in the flick TROY Achilles tells Agamemnon, "Be careful, King, your army must win the battle first before you can brag about winning a war"!?
Posted by JosephMendiola 2005-10-14 01:45||   2005-10-14 01:45|| Front Page Top

#5 A lot of apocalyptic saber-rattling by the EU.

The way I udnderstand the DNS and ICANN systems: China Russia et al are perfectly free to start their own internet, seperate from th US root servers. It could even work, for a while. If they do decide to do this it doesn't break the internet, it only fragments it. That means that companies who do business on the internet in Europe and elsewhere will simply be unable to do so. Internet will continue in the US uninterrupted.

As someone who runs a mail server the EU and China should be applauded for their decision to take themselves off the internet. It will easily cut UBE by at least 80 percent.

So, go ahead, UN. Do your worst.

Don't walk away mad. Just walk away
Posted by badanov 2005-10-14 02:14|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org]  2005-10-14 02:14|| Front Page Top

#6 The way I see it is that they want to take away ".gov" and ".com" and ".mil"

Also, they want to tax all IPs with the money to go to their favorite Charity (coat pocket).

Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 03:14||   2005-10-14 03:14|| Front Page Top

#7 They want to tax and censor it. There is no other motivation. 99.9% of my interent activity is based in North America. Go ahead and break it. My internet will still work, free of TRANZI EU bullshit and know-it-alls. Might be a breath of fresh air.
Posted by Sock Puppet ´ Doom 2005-10-14 03:22||   2005-10-14 03:22|| Front Page Top

#8 I'm going to miss all of the RB citizens who happen to be physically located in the UK, FR, DE, AU, CA, etc. I will no longer be getting email from my numerous buds in SA, TH. and HK.

It will, no doubt, spawn a class of Super-ISP's - companies who can negotiate and interconnect a presence on multiple 'Nets -- bridging them internally just as they do now openly. It will have to happen - too much interdependence... hence there's extortion opportunities. They'll initially use the same routers to do it, i.e. it'll just be relabeling existing shit.

Ideally for the assholes, they would own the High Speed Backbones - but I believe the oceanic backbones are currently owned by US companies. Could be that the only connectivity they'll have, initially, is the slow local stuff that bleeds over the relatively open borders in Europe. The inter-connectivity will become proprietary without the overall control of a single entity - precisely what has made the Internet the phenomenal success it is, today.

Eventually it will be a total cock-up, of course, slow and buggy, as each Super-ISP will probably do some aspects of the bridge with proprietary stuff - trying to make it hard to leave them. It WILL be a death grip on ISP's, something that happens in the heavily filtered countries now, and a wealth transfer - you KNOW the license fees for the privilege of connecting to the UN NAP's (Network Access Points) will be astronomical for US "bones".

Additionally, there's another obvious place they can make money off their own citizens... Recall the bidding boondoggles for cellphone providers, country by country... Someone has the notion of doing the same for IP #'s, I'll bet.

*head shake* *it's shakedown*

One thing is certain: they can't initially change any of the underlying technical aspects of TCP/IP on any other 'Net(s) - none of the software would work. The OSI Model is King. Might as well go back to Dixie cups and string, in that case. Over time, however, you could expect divergence because the US body, ICANN / W3C will be technically driven and the UN version will be politically driven. So someday, there will be a break, a Tower of Babble issue - and more licensing fees for use of their proprietary horseshit in the software. For now, it would just be about fees and content control and there will be companies willing to put up the fees and spread the cost among those who want the bridge.

Greed, extortion, cacophony, gridlock, and clusterfuck are the words that spring to mind, for me. A Giant Leap Backwards, compliments of fools, whores, and Tranzis.

My take.
Posted by .com 2005-10-14 03:36||   2005-10-14 03:36|| Front Page Top

#9 I've been playing with a rather good idea in my head to replace DNS and traditional view of ip addresses...
(It will work really good with wireless but I have been trying to find compelling reasons for wired. This could be it.)

Have to write up a nice RFC, sit down with my patent attorney, then rewrite that nice RFC in a way the EU can't fuck with it having just enough non-software patented hooks to protect it.

hmmm I wonder how long they have been planning this theft? Since their attacks on software patents?
Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 04:06||   2005-10-14 04:06|| Front Page Top

#10 Even a Swede has figured out this is a bad ides. It isn't going to happen. Just the EU trying to get brownie points from their former colonies. Pathetic.
Posted by Whomomp Shager4272 2005-10-14 06:53||   2005-10-14 06:53|| Front Page Top

#11 This is like one of those hoax emails we used to get in the '90s... Amusing if it actually happens.
Posted by JSU 2005-10-14 07:11||   2005-10-14 07:11|| Front Page Top

#12 Considering the number of country suffixes that I have already blocked to reduce spam, go ahead and fragment. Make my day. While you're at it, fragment Nigeria from the phone system so that less of my fax paper is wasted.
Posted by Darrell 2005-10-14 07:13||   2005-10-14 07:13|| Front Page Top

#13 BTW, I know the current blather and debate is simply about root servers, domain namespaces, etc, but those can be circumvented.

Physical connections forcing access through a limited and controlled set of access points, which can then be firewalled and filtered, are how the totalitarians actually control access now (Saudi, NorK, China, etc.), so that's where I believe the real action will occur. They can easily be made isolated islands without external connectivity - or allow only privileged users external access while blocking the others via IP address or secure site access.

If you're a "state" and wish to merely control your namespace, you can do that any time you want - you could've done that yesterday without anyone's approval or assistance - sample /. comment:

Let them all start their own DNS systems, breaking the Internet into segments. Let their own stupidity be their punishment. First, they will legislate that ISPs operating in their countries will no be allowed to use root DNS servers other than their own...

-- and more from same commenter --

This whole thing is about controlling the flow of information. The currect (US led) system has 0 political control of domains. The US government doesn't tell ICANN to remove a root DNS entry if they have a problem. The find the server and seize it according to the law. If it is overseas, they work with the local government.

Then we have the "other" side of the blather (BTW I'm intentionally leaving out the Chomskyite Moonbat morons who say we don't have free speech in the US):

Seems to me it's more an issue of the rest of the world not trusting the US to act honourably in perpetuity. As a lot of the international economy now depends on the internet in one way or another, other countries don't want the US to be in full control of deciding who goes where/knows what on the internet. Imagine, if you will, that Iran controlled the root servers. Would people in the US trust them? Now recall that there are laws on the books in the US which allow various Federal agencies to access/modify data on the ICANN servers and forbid them from notifying anyone about it. See why the EU is worried?

However, this is all academic. It's easy enough to set up your own root servers and just peer into the ICANN ones, append all .com, .net, .org, .info, .biz, .etc entries found there with .us, and go from there. Anyone outside the US then just uses slashdot.org.us instead of slashdot.org, and life goes on as normal. Just like with telephone country codes.

Once again, you'll note that if this were merely about namespace and DNS, it could be done anytime, by anybody with legal power in any given legal jurisdiction. It does NOT require some new UN-controlled clusterfuck.

This is about sticking to the US, about censorship and content control, and about having the hooks to tax - create a pot of money to play with. To do that with ruthless efficiency, you either need to be a state with technically competent, rigorous, and draconian law enforcement - that be hard work - or control the physical connectivity - that be far easier and, once done, permanent - no matter who's administering the servers. Too much honor system and too many break-out points if it's software-only, such as DNS control.

This is my favorite comment... from someone called ethnocidal... I'd bet from the UK...

The EU is not trying to destroy the internet, it is trying to do quite the opposite; it has recognised that countries like China, Brazil and Iran are making strong moves to setting up their own independant root servers, irrespective of the US.

They are trying to act as brokers between this position, which is not in the interest of the EU, and the maverick US position, which flatly disclaims any notion of international coordination on these issues. Repeat after me: the EU is not trying to split the internet, they are trying to maintain the current cohesion.

They are a broker between two arguments, and should be applauded as such, rather than vilified and slandered as 'splitters' or malcontents.

Righty-O. Twit. As another commenter said:
Just to restate - the internet's not going to "fall apart" on it's own. They're planning on breaking it.
Posted by .com 2005-10-14 07:18||   2005-10-14 07:18|| Front Page Top

#14 Will the network be unbroken?
By and by Lord, by and by,
There's a better homepage waitin'
On the sly, Lord, on the sly.

This Lan is yur Lan?
This Lan is my Lan!
From the Cisco switches
To the litter blue routers
From the fibre cable
to the burnt out modems
This Lan was built by Us
for me.
Posted by Shipman 2005-10-14 07:23||   2005-10-14 07:23|| Front Page Top

#15 Isn't an attack on the communication infrastructure at this scale an act of war?
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-10-14 07:29|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-10-14 07:29|| Front Page Top

#16 At the same time they also said they were going to report Iran to the UN Security Council, put a man on Mars and drive the Jews into the sea create peace in the Middle East.
Posted by Jake-the-Peg 2005-10-14 07:38||   2005-10-14 07:38|| Front Page Top

#17 And overcome the US technologically, get rid of unemploymenyt, have higher per capita FDP and a higher grow rate.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2005-10-14 08:30||   2005-10-14 08:30|| Front Page Top

#18 Yeah, that Lisbon thingee, yeah, riiiiiight.
Posted by Tholurt Choluling8333 2005-10-14 08:48||   2005-10-14 08:48|| Front Page Top

#19 If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report!

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash,
And the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash,
And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,
Then your situation's hopeless, and your system's gonna crash!

If the label on the cable on the table at your house,
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
But your packets want to tunnel on another protocol,
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall,
And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss,
So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
Then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang,
'Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang!

When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk,
And the microcode instructions cause unnecessary risc,
Then you have to flash your memory and you'll want to ram your rom.
Quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your mom!

Sure it's old but it seems strangely relevant in this thread. ;)
Posted by AzCat 2005-10-14 09:22||   2005-10-14 09:22|| Front Page Top

#20 3dc, gere's the article I'd have liked in response:

3dc, you are either illiterate or a liar. You took an article that had the EU warning about what they saw as a *bad* thing, namely the Internet breaking apart by actions from China/Brazil/Iran/etc, and you Orwell-like changed the title into "EU Threatens to break internet next month".

But what's wrong with a little bit of lying, liar 3dc.

And all the rest of you, buffoons, none of you had the literacy to even click on the article in question. Two seconds sufficed and you'd have noted the LYING at the post's title. Naive bozos or liars yourselves.

But once again, what's wrong with a little bit of lying, liars and fools y'all.


But since I'm such a very polite fellow I won't post all this. Instead I'll just remark 3dc, that you if you're too lazy to read a article, could you *please* be also lazy enough to NOT (wrongly) guess at its content and try to synopsize it for us with an utterly false and lying title?
Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-10-14 09:41||   2005-10-14 09:41|| Front Page Top

#21 I have a solution: scramble GPS signals for non-US users. No more free rides.
Posted by Rafael 2005-10-14 09:47||   2005-10-14 09:47|| Front Page Top

#22 WTF??? America creates the net but Euro bellends say its thiers to run now eh through the 'UN'. fckin perverse that is why the fck should the UN run it??? Guess kofi and co could make alot of money outa this like the OIF program, someone please intervene and tell these 'UN' chumps where to go, i cannot imagine a worse route for the internet to take then UN ownership. If this were to happen i would really like to see America withdraw from the UN - kick the fckers out, stop funding them so it simply collapses - actually do that anyway internet or no internet. What fckin right does the UN have over anything?? Christ this makes me angry. I presume this means any technolagy/ideas/creations automaticly become UN property now for them to run. Absolutly sickining!
Posted by Shep UK 2005-10-14 09:53||   2005-10-14 09:53|| Front Page Top

#23 Yes please scramble all GPS if they do this then conduct a covert war against these EU fck nozzles, how bout smacking a few of the Euro satilites outa orbit while your at it. God i hate the UN and EU losers. This really is becoming outa control this UN thing and needs to be stamped on hard and booted outa America and all funding stopped - let the EU and their dictator buddies foot the bill instead. Oh while your at it tell NASA to stop sharing all thier fantastic work with the other non allied countrys too, stop all disaster relief aid also to any non allied country. America gives more to the world then any other country in almost every concievable way and this is the thanks they get,unbelivable!
Posted by Shep UK 2005-10-14 10:05||   2005-10-14 10:05|| Front Page Top

#24 Aris, did YOU read the article?

Even Bildt says it's all about control of content and power.

Also...

"What we are talking about is a governance structure that is extremely lightweight, where the government oversight of internet functions is limited just to the list of essential tasks," said one EU negotiator.

While the forum "does not decide anything, it is a place where people can come to a view and generally participate in thinking about the internet and the way it is governed".

What exactly is preventing people from coming to a view and thinking about the internet and the way it is governed? That's right NOTHING.
BUT, what they do want is the power to put these wonderfully thought up ideas into place.

Tell me again, just what are those "essential tasks", hmmmm? And who gets to decide what they are?

The idea of turning the internet over to the organization that gave you Rawanda, Oil for Food, Srebrenica (sp?) etc. is just despicable.
Posted by AlanC">AlanC  2005-10-14 10:17||   2005-10-14 10:17|| Front Page Top

#25 Aris

I think you are quite distorting the facts. It is true that 3dc title is to say the least misleading: the EU is not threatening to break the Internet. But you too: the EU is not merely saying that breaking would be a bad thing, it supports the thesis of the would-be breakers ("give the thing to the thing to the United Crooks") and advising the US to surrender
Posted by JFM">JFM  2005-10-14 10:19||   2005-10-14 10:19|| Front Page Top

#26 I put in WOT as it is part of the WoT. The part where Ceasar is stabbed in the back by his buddies. The part of Brutus is played by the EU.

Its the part of the act where Burtus discovers that his buds are not only not his buds but actively wanting to kill him. This is WoT active ops. It just that some turn a blind eye.

Some would have Ceaser talk about the knife with Brutus until everybody feels warm and fuzzy, turns around for another drink and Brutus stabs him.

Some would have Ceaser run.

Some would have Ceaser heroicly attempt to beat the shit out of Brutus before he stabs again.

Some would have Ceaser back off, lick his wounds and call his buddies in THE BLACK HAND.

So, what should our course be?
Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 10:25||   2005-10-14 10:25|| Front Page Top

#27 Our course should be to not feed trolls, especially when it is apparent that they are suffering from a chemically induced stupor.
Posted by Craling Elminenter8467 2005-10-14 10:35||   2005-10-14 10:35|| Front Page Top

#28 Goodbye to our EU Rantburgers. We will miss you.
Posted by Cyber Sarge">Cyber Sarge  2005-10-14 10:57||   2005-10-14 10:57|| Front Page Top

#29 The European commission is warning that if a deal cannot be reached at a meeting in Tunisia next month the internet will split apart.

Fuck you, cupcake. Come get some.

But you won't like it.
Posted by mojo">mojo  2005-10-14 10:57||   2005-10-14 10:57|| Front Page Top

#30 I should point out:
When they fork it...
After talking with China..
They will drop the ROC's TLD of "TW"

The US will likely still have ".TW"
This means no more bios and driver updates for the forked peoples computers... heh
Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 11:09||   2005-10-14 11:09|| Front Page Top

#31 Of course.. I am dreaming of an Internet that's a matrix or a 3..nD wireframe and not a hierarchy that needs TLDs. Sort of like a water system on steriods. (many ways from A to B)
Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 11:16||   2005-10-14 11:16|| Front Page Top

#32 3dc,
The problem comes in keeping routing table consistency. If i register a domain, will it show in all the other name servers. How about if I am someone Beijing opposes, like say a Falung Gong advocate or Taiwanese? If they do get get registered in the US, will the Chinese name servers then sabotage the routing tables, causing all the other name servers to propagate the error during the next update? How about if I am a Jew, Shiite, or Ahmadi? Will the Riyadh servers play fair with me?
Posted by ed 2005-10-14 11:39||   2005-10-14 11:39|| Front Page Top

#33 So what was the joint satellite the US and France sent up yesterday? They're just jealous and they've been ignored lately so they have to make a stink.
Posted by Danielle 2005-10-14 11:45||   2005-10-14 11:45|| Front Page Top

#34 They were two separate satellites sharing the same Ariane rocket: European rocket sends French military satellite aloft
A European rocket blasted off here Thursday, hoisting aloft a new-generation French military satellite and an American commercial communications satellite, an AFP reporter saw.
Posted by ed 2005-10-14 11:56||   2005-10-14 11:56|| Front Page Top

#35 DNS has nothing to do with routing which is based on IP addressing.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2005-10-14 13:45||   2005-10-14 13:45|| Front Page Top

#36 greed, control, and power
and few showers
leads a person to stink

Burma shave
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-10-14 13:55||   2005-10-14 13:55|| Front Page Top

#37 
I don't care if the EU and the Totalitarians they are supporting with this wacked out stance ever reach my registed Domains as long as the US and Canada can. Content is King. The EU nation's support very little of the real content of the WWW. They don't host any major service like Yahoo or Google. Let them enjoy their websites in French and German.

Losing some EU located pr0n sites isn't going to effect the world much.
Posted by Sock Puppet O´ Doom 2005-10-14 15:01||   2005-10-14 15:01|| Front Page Top

#38 Ed - Im'a thinking something other then TLDS ...
Like I said... I need to sit down and write an RFC
Posted by 3dc 2005-10-14 15:48||   2005-10-14 15:48|| Front Page Top

#39 Be a hellova hit to the porn industry.

but then again, that's probably what will stop the European plan deqd in its tracks.
Posted by Kelly 2005-10-14 16:06||   2005-10-14 16:06|| Front Page Top

#40 If the internet becomes fragmented, as some have suggested here, how much you want to bet that a US company figures out how to reconnect everything virtually?

All your root servers are belong to US.
Posted by Tibor 2005-10-14 16:57|| http://incompetenttibor.blogspot.com]">[http://incompetenttibor.blogspot.com]  2005-10-14 16:57|| Front Page Top

#41 If you don't give it to me I'm gonna hold my breath till I turn blue. I'm not kidding. I'll stuficate and it'll be your fault.
Posted by BrerRabbit 2005-10-14 19:11||   2005-10-14 19:11|| Front Page Top

#42 The world keeps moving, even the great US will learn in time that the world always changes. If not the Net then something else will shift the balance of power. How many years... who knows; but it will happen
Posted by Norm Coleman 2005-10-14 19:56||   2005-10-14 19:56|| Front Page Top

#43 Shipman and AzCat---Great Internet songs and poems, we needed some humor.

I wouldn't be surprised if the EUniks and Tranzis managed to do their thing, that international companies would do the virtual thing by reconnecting through satellites or their leased lines. The UN and EUniks are like King Midas in reverse, everything they touch turns to sh*t. Nobody is going back, there is too much creativity now in the world that will be unleased on bureaucrats. Bwhahahahahaha!
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2005-10-14 20:21||   2005-10-14 20:21|| Front Page Top

#44 Good night, Norm.
Posted by Bobby 2005-10-14 21:22||   2005-10-14 21:22|| Front Page Top

#45 The US will likely still have ".TW"

My goodness, I should hope you wouldn't get rid of me so easily! I may have pompous moments, and occasionally get the vapours, but I'm told I make good popcorn. ;-)
Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-14 22:11||   2005-10-14 22:11|| Front Page Top

#46 I'm reminded of the old addage about building web pages - "If you don't know how to write the code yourself, find something you like and steal it". It appears that the EU plans to steal the work of DARPA and a few software geniuses both in the US and the UK. Maybe it's time to use a huge flash-bomb on Brussels, followed by a sign "hands off". Like my parents used to tell me, if it's not your toy, don't take it home.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2005-10-14 23:23|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2005-10-14 23:23|| Front Page Top

00:04 JosephMendiola
23:57 SON OF TOLUI
23:54 Zenster
23:52 JosephMendiola
23:46 SON OF TOLUI
23:45 Bomb-a-rama
23:36 Bomb-a-rama
23:36 Barbara Skolaut
23:36 Bardo
23:23 Old Patriot
23:23 Barbara Skolaut
23:19 Barbara Skolaut
23:18 SON OF TOLUI
22:34 trailing wife
22:30 trailing wife
22:21  CrazyFool
22:13 Shereting Omager3789
22:11 trailing wife
22:05 Zenster
22:05 RWV
22:03 trailing wife
22:02 JosephMendiola
22:00 Bobby
21:58 Bobby









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