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2005-11-04 Britain

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Posted by Howard UK 2005-11-04 07:32|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 When a certain kind of fool (i.e. Fukuyama and other pet intellectuals of the elites) starts pleading for more assimilation, it's probably too late and a safe bet to go contrarian -- I predict that the next twenty years or so are going to be the age of ethnic cleansing. Multiculturalism is dead. Yugoslavia was just the beginning. Maybe if the Euros had acted decisively -- both internally and externally -- after Dubrovnik we might now be at the beginning stages of a very long and painful process of assimiliation with good odds of success.

BTW, I'm rather suprised that the BBC is calling them "Muslim" rather than "Asian" graves. It's actually kind of funny that the Beeb refers to "Muslim" graves in the first line and then reverts back to the politically correct "Asian" in the third. Can only dead Asians be Muslims? And aren't good Muslims not supposed to have graves, or is that just a Wahhabi thing?

Posted by 11A5S 2005-11-04 08:16|| 2005-11-04 08:16|| Front Page Top

#2 So, instead of assimilation we get two decades of ethnic cleansing. You sound almost giddy at the prosepct.

Posted by Omeating Thraitch3361 2005-11-04 08:20|| 2005-11-04 08:20|| Front Page Top

#3 BTW, I'm rather suprised that the BBC is calling them "Muslim" rather than "Asian" graves

They were the victims. The racial identity of victims is relevant, if they're minorities.

I'm shocked they identified leaflets as coming from a group named "Black Nation", though their bit about not knowing if the group was made up could be considered weaseling.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-11-04 08:23|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-11-04 08:23|| Front Page Top

#4 So, instead of assimilation we get two decades of ethnic cleansing. You sound almost giddy at the prosepct.

You know, I brought up Dubrovnik because I remember how very sad I was while that was happening. While my information was being filtered then through the MSM and and didn't have the knowledge base that the Internet gives me now, I knew that something was terribly wrong then.

Do not, OT3361, mistake my harshness for giddiness. I am hard on the Euros because I think that is the only way that we can get through to them now. Every moment in time is a nexus that branches off into many different futures. Some of those European futures involve much suffering and blood. The Euros are living the bright, technocolor dream of multiculturalism right now. Reality is much darker. How do we get them to awaken from the dream and confront reality? Soemtimes you have to shake the dreamer to awaken him.

I want European civilization to succeed and prosper. I don't think that it will the way things are going right now.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-11-04 08:49|| 2005-11-04 08:49|| Front Page Top

#5 Multi-culturalism and assimilation are antithetical, not synonomous. In calling for assimilation, Fukuyama et al are asking for an end to the technicolor dream of multiculturalism to preserve European culture even if in new vessels. You seem to be calling for the destruction of the vessels that might preserve a culture that is otherwise literally committing suicide by failing to reproduce itself.

Posted by Omeating Thraitch3361 2005-11-04 09:06|| 2005-11-04 09:06|| Front Page Top

#6 Has the Nation of Islam gone inter-national?
115as,would you be a devotee of Muadib?

Posted by raptor 2005-11-04 09:08|| 2005-11-04 09:08|| Front Page Top

#7 OT3361: As a half-Mexican, half-Anglo kid who lived in E.L.A until he was ten, I am very pro-assimilation, believe me. It's not like I hang around Rantburg preaching the MEChA line. What I was trying to say in my previous posts was that if folks like Fukuyama are suddenly preaching assimilation, it's probably too late. The time to preach assimilation was 1991, not 2005. Analogy: It's like being an investor and waiting until the mainstream analysts came out in support of the dot com boom. Is assimilation still possible? I dunno? I hope it is, but I am not holding my breath. Final point: Europe is just the tip of the ethnic cleansing iceberg. Darfur, Thailand, Kashmir, the Altoplano, etc, etc... it's happening on every continent with a lesser or greater degree of violence. Whether one wants to admit it or not, this is an age of ethnic cleansing. We need to start dealing with it realistically.

Funny you should ask that, Raptor. I've been thinking a lot about Frank Herbert recently. He looks into the future, sees the chaos that high technology brings to human affairs and consistently creates these totalitarian or conspiratorial governments to control the chaos. Maybe subconsciously I used some of his imagery. His writing approaches poetry at points, though.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-11-04 09:37|| 2005-11-04 09:37|| Front Page Top

#8 To reinforce 11's point: The mouth pieces for the rioters in France aren't asking to be assimilated; they're demanding self-governance. How can you assimilate a population that doesn't want it?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-11-04 09:47|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-11-04 09:47|| Front Page Top

#9 11a5s, ethnic cleansing has always been with us. It's absence over the last 50 years is the exception that you are correct, the Europeans failed to take advantage of. They watch us flailing with our own racial issues, felt smug and self satisfied and are now paying the piper.

Nonetheless, the only two realistic ways to deal with the situation I see are assimilation or ethnic cleansing. The past is gone. Only the present is under our control. It's never too late to start assimilation. The alternative is to let the ball of ethnic cleansing sweep the globe as you correctly perceive.

How do you assimilate a population? The way America has for the last hundred years or so, You open the doors to those who want to become American and close them to those who don't. The problem with multi-culturalism is it wanted to keep the doors open to those who didn't want to become Aemrican. Big mistake. Make becoming an American relatively easy and very attractive. The children do it themselves. Why do you think so many Chinese in the Bay Area send their kids to Saturday Chinese School? Nothing wrong with it, but they do it because they can see their children being drawn out of Chinese culture and into American culture and they want to stop it. But how many of those kids will send their children to Saturday Chinese School? Especially if they marry an ethnic non-Chinese?

It's happened with every immigrant group that has come here because being an American is an intellectual condition, not a blood type. The Euros have to get to that point also. I guess our difference is whether they should try because they have run out of time and boxed themselves in with too many unassimilated Islamists. I think they still should. And that could involve deportations discrimination against non-assimilators and other unpleasnatries to encourage assimilation. But not ethnic cleansing. Europe does that too well.

Posted by Spaimble Hupeack4040 2005-11-04 10:21|| 2005-11-04 10:21|| Front Page Top

#10 Kosovo was a warm up to what is coming for Western Europe. Hopefully not, but I hold little hope for the Euros.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-11-04 10:25|| 2005-11-04 10:25|| Front Page Top

#11 Why do you think so many Chinese in the Bay Area send their kids to Saturday Chinese School?

Spaimble Hupeack4040: I graduated Magna Cum Laude from a Saturday Chinese School, veteran, former MIG pilot (wong stowie, wont go into it), 3+/3+ in English, puter literate, and still can't find work.

Posted by MAJ Wang Wei 2005-11-04 10:39|| 2005-11-04 10:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Given Europe's history. I doubt that assimilation is in the cards. So, it becomes evict or Euarabia. Flip the coin.

Posted by 3dc 2005-11-04 11:22|| 2005-11-04 11:22|| Front Page Top

#13 MAJ Wang Wei, send me an e-mail, please.

Separately, France has always prided itself on being the country other than the U.S. where anyone who chooses the idea of France is a Frenchman. And yet it still didn't work.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2005-11-04 13:28|| 2005-11-04 13:28|| Front Page Top

#14 How come you never ask me to send you e-mail, TW?

Posted by Spaimble Hupeack4040 2005-11-04 13:51|| 2005-11-04 13:51|| Front Page Top

#15 On the matter of ethnic cleansing. Any timetable for the 'right of return' of the Silesian Germans?
Didn't think so. It's interesting how long people hold onto myths.

Posted by Hupomosh Elmomoting2752 2005-11-04 14:59|| 2005-11-04 14:59|| Front Page Top

#16 Spaimble Hupeack4040, dear, sit down and have a cup of tea. It's not that I don't love you just as musch as the Major, but you never mentioned to the 'Burg that you are a highly qualified, recently retired military man/woman who still can't find work, and who might be suited for something I happen to know about. Are you?

Posted by trailing wife 2005-11-04 15:21|| 2005-11-04 15:21|| Front Page Top

#17 "To reinforce 11's point: The mouth pieces for the rioters in France aren't asking to be assimilated; they're demanding self-governance. How can you assimilate a population that doesn't want it?"

And ive heard comments to the effect that there are folk in the banlieues who LIKE what Sarkosy has to say - after all its THEIR cars that are being burnt, and THEIR lives disrupted. There are of course imams and others who seem to want to take advantage of the riots to get positioned as mediators (can anybody spell "povertician" - does that date me?) but I dont know that the majority of the banlieus supports the rioters.

Sarkosy seems to have the right idea - crush the scum (IE the gangs) and assimilate the law-abiding folks.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-11-04 15:42|| 2005-11-04 15:42|| Front Page Top

#18 "Separately, France has always prided itself on being the country other than the U.S. where anyone who chooses the idea of France is a Frenchman. And yet it still didn't work."

Er, note that it worked for many - Sarkosy himself is of Hungarian origin. Rather its not working NOW - one, because the original sense of Frenchness as an idea is weakened by excessive multiculturalism - also cause racism makes white people have trouble applying models of assimilation to non-whites (something we have plenty of experience with in the US - the French have long thought they were exempt from that sort of thing - well they were WRONG) And cause the French socio-economic model, which was functional in an earlier economic era, is unable to keep up in todays high tech globalized world.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-11-04 15:45|| 2005-11-04 15:45|| Front Page Top

#19 how many fuckin festivals and holy daysn and months do they have

Posted by Jerelet Thineling2988 2005-11-04 19:45|| 2005-11-04 19:45|| Front Page Top

#20 LH: Agreed. Crush the scum, then assimilate. The question is how long will it take to crush the scum?

The other question I have is how long will it take for the French to really assimilate the Arabs? Let's face it, you force kids into trade school based on test scores in 8th grade.* All the muslim kids go to crappy schools. Thus they never get to go to college prep and never get into college. Also, the French aren't creating jobs for the Muslims. I read that the unemployment rate is 5% for French college grads and 25% for Muslim college grads. The kids in the suburbs who go to trade school don't have a chance.

* It should by now make sense to everyone why I have been griping about the European education system for the last three years. It's essentially tolitarian character stunts lives.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-11-04 21:53|| 2005-11-04 21:53|| Front Page Top

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